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	<title>Comments on: Regulators &#8211; should they try to prevent problems or just collect the fines?</title>
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		<title>By: David Eyles</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1732</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eyles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Man in a shed, in particular, is right. However other areas, outside massive fines for massive state businesses by equally massive state regulators have been touched upon. 
 
I think I would simply remind you that this is but one tiny aspect of the whole disease which impedes every part of the productive sector. At all levels, the government interferes with our businesses to make it increasing impossible to get anything done. And then when something goes wrong, your fault or not, the regulators are there to come down upon you like the proverbial tonne of bricks. The answer is to make a huge bonfire of quangos and regulations and save the taxpayer money, say about 10% of GDP. But then you know all about this.......... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man in a shed, in particular, is right. However other areas, outside massive fines for massive state businesses by equally massive state regulators have been touched upon. </p>
<p>I think I would simply remind you that this is but one tiny aspect of the whole disease which impedes every part of the productive sector. At all levels, the government interferes with our businesses to make it increasing impossible to get anything done. And then when something goes wrong, your fault or not, the regulators are there to come down upon you like the proverbial tonne of bricks. The answer is to make a huge bonfire of quangos and regulations and save the taxpayer money, say about 10% of GDP. But then you know all about this&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. </p>
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		<title>By: Man in a Shed</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1731</link>
		<dc:creator>Man in a Shed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Had similar thoughts myself. I suspect the answer is the fines are for show, to deceive the electorate that something is being done. 
 
That would at least be consistent with the New Labour mode of operation. 
 
Perhaps Gordon Brown will set up a review of the issues inviting **&lt;i&gt;insert the name of the person and organisation who&#039;s credibility he is borrowing here and he can hide behind&lt;/i&gt;** to undertake a wide ranging study, saying that he does not want to prejudge the review of inaction. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Had similar thoughts myself. I suspect the answer is the fines are for show, to deceive the electorate that something is being done. </p>
<p>That would at least be consistent with the New Labour mode of operation. </p>
<p>Perhaps Gordon Brown will set up a review of the issues inviting **<i>insert the name of the person and organisation who&#039;s credibility he is borrowing here and he can hide behind</i>** to undertake a wide ranging study, saying that he does not want to prejudge the review of inaction. </p>
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		<title>By: mikestallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1730</link>
		<dc:creator>mikestallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1730</guid>
		<description>What would happen if the railways were completely freed up to run themselves with no government money, no government interference and no regulator? And no heavy tax on operators either. 
There would, actually, be competition - from people in cars and from air traffic. 
Are there no people left who could make money out of such a situation? With road traffic congestion and the cattle market in the air, I personally would welcome a good train service, and I know you would from your past posts. 
It was the EU, (wasn&#039;t it?), that caused the divorce between the operating companies and the track they ran on (Railtrack) under John Major. That is what Christopher Booker said at the time, anyway. 
If any independent company ran the railways like this mob, they would soon go out of business. And the invisible hand might have a go instead. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would happen if the railways were completely freed up to run themselves with no government money, no government interference and no regulator? And no heavy tax on operators either.<br />
There would, actually, be competition &#8211; from people in cars and from air traffic.<br />
Are there no people left who could make money out of such a situation? With road traffic congestion and the cattle market in the air, I personally would welcome a good train service, and I know you would from your past posts.<br />
It was the EU, (wasn&#039;t it?), that caused the divorce between the operating companies and the track they ran on (Railtrack) under John Major. That is what Christopher Booker said at the time, anyway.<br />
If any independent company ran the railways like this mob, they would soon go out of business. And the invisible hand might have a go instead. </p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1729</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1729</guid>
		<description>Fines, like legislation, are another tool which the government seemingly believes can be used as a magic panacea to control all sorts of outcomes. 
 
Fines for motorists have increased exponentially, are the roads any safer? of course not. All fines imposed by the state from late tax returns to recalcitrant utitlity companies should be ringfenced in a special fund. This should then be used to subsidise various activities (not of the pious, social engineering, Millenium Dome variety) that everyone can enjoy. I guarantee the government would then lose its appetite for this lazy management device in a nanosecond. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fines, like legislation, are another tool which the government seemingly believes can be used as a magic panacea to control all sorts of outcomes. </p>
<p>Fines for motorists have increased exponentially, are the roads any safer? of course not. All fines imposed by the state from late tax returns to recalcitrant utitlity companies should be ringfenced in a special fund. This should then be used to subsidise various activities (not of the pious, social engineering, Millenium Dome variety) that everyone can enjoy. I guarantee the government would then lose its appetite for this lazy management device in a nanosecond. </p>
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		<title>By: Patrick, London</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1728</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick, London</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1728</guid>
		<description>John, 
 
I think a super correction mechanism would be if the fines imposed were always forced to be paid to the injured party (usually Joe public) and not to the Treasury. 
 
As it stands a &#039;fine&#039; just goes to the Treasury. If your rail service is a joke then the fine benefits you precisely nothing. It helps Alisatair Darling. It&#039;s stealth tax. 
 
If the fine was obliged to be paid equally to all season ticket holders then the voting public would feel directly that the regulators were on their side. 
 
Maybe you&#039;d like to sponsor a private bill through the House! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, </p>
<p>I think a super correction mechanism would be if the fines imposed were always forced to be paid to the injured party (usually Joe public) and not to the Treasury. </p>
<p>As it stands a &#039;fine&#039; just goes to the Treasury. If your rail service is a joke then the fine benefits you precisely nothing. It helps Alisatair Darling. It&#039;s stealth tax. </p>
<p>If the fine was obliged to be paid equally to all season ticket holders then the voting public would feel directly that the regulators were on their side. </p>
<p>Maybe you&#039;d like to sponsor a private bill through the House! </p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1727</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1727</guid>
		<description>John, I have emailed you in the past on this very topic. 
 
It seems we, as a nation, have become obsessed with fines. Every piece of legislation seems to have a fine attached. On our local news channel last night, we saw two features, one about seat belts and one about mobile phones. The bottom line was that, two or three police officers were at the side of the road basically collecting fines at the rate of thirty pounds a go. We see in the local paper that several police officers were at the side of a road in Bracknell collecting speeding fines at the rate of forty pounds a throw. Whilst it is true to say that speeding, non wearing of seat belts and using mobile phones while driving are against the law, why does it seem the police constantly target this type of tax collecting crime rather than investigating the type of crimes, such as burglary and muggings, that we all fear more? Could it be that money is not so easily raised? Anyone that has been burgled knows that often the police don&#039;t even turn up; you are just given a crime report number to give to your insurers. 
 
 
With regard to the regulators, I agree that it is sheer madness to have one publicly funded body fining another publicly funded body....So why do we as a nation put up with it? Are we all stupid? 
 
The &quot;event&quot; that really rammed it home for me was the shooting at Stockwell tube. The publicly funded police were investigated by the publicly funded &#039;Elf&#039;n&#039;safety quango, these reported to the publicly funded CPS who prosecuted the publicly funded Met Police through the publicly funded court system who then issued a fine....Kerching...There goes Nanny&#039;s till again....How much money and at what cost to the taxpayer is swilling around and around within our Stalinist state in the public sector in fines, awards and funding? 
The problem is that whenever a member of the Stepford front bench announce a record fine, they look so pleased with themselves, are we too thick to see that actually we are fining ourselves which, in the case of a fined NHS trust hospital, must come off the hospital&#039;s budget and thus affect front line services I.e. Money to treat you and I in hospitals. 
 
I feel the EUSSR were wrong to fine Microsoft, they were merely protecting their product&#226;&#8364;&#166;.They are successful because they provide something the public want&#226;&#8364;&#166;.Obviously, success is unacceptable in a Stalinist state. It seems that often a regulator saying, &#226;&#8364;&#339;They can easily afford it&#226;&#8364;, justifies the hefty fines  It is another tax on success. Before the current fine them culture came in to fashion, the preferred method of a Labour government was the &#226;&#8364;&#339;Windfall&#226;&#8364; tax. Same thing really; just a different label. 
 
I personally think, this fine them culture is just the natural progression from the compensation culture....Are we too thick to see that every time we sue for compensation, the lawyers make a fortune, the insurers have huge costs, mostly legal fees, and these are passed on to we the customers in the form of huge premiums....When we receive our couple of quid compensation do we think that we have really won? The winners are the lawyers, they have probably made ten times as much in fees, we are the losers as we will pay higher and higher premiums, the insurers will just pass this new expense on to us. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I have emailed you in the past on this very topic. </p>
<p>It seems we, as a nation, have become obsessed with fines. Every piece of legislation seems to have a fine attached. On our local news channel last night, we saw two features, one about seat belts and one about mobile phones. The bottom line was that, two or three police officers were at the side of the road basically collecting fines at the rate of thirty pounds a go. We see in the local paper that several police officers were at the side of a road in Bracknell collecting speeding fines at the rate of forty pounds a throw. Whilst it is true to say that speeding, non wearing of seat belts and using mobile phones while driving are against the law, why does it seem the police constantly target this type of tax collecting crime rather than investigating the type of crimes, such as burglary and muggings, that we all fear more? Could it be that money is not so easily raised? Anyone that has been burgled knows that often the police don&#039;t even turn up; you are just given a crime report number to give to your insurers. </p>
<p>With regard to the regulators, I agree that it is sheer madness to have one publicly funded body fining another publicly funded body&#8230;.So why do we as a nation put up with it? Are we all stupid? </p>
<p>The &quot;event&quot; that really rammed it home for me was the shooting at Stockwell tube. The publicly funded police were investigated by the publicly funded &#039;Elf&#039;n&#039;safety quango, these reported to the publicly funded CPS who prosecuted the publicly funded Met Police through the publicly funded court system who then issued a fine&#8230;.Kerching&#8230;There goes Nanny&#039;s till again&#8230;.How much money and at what cost to the taxpayer is swilling around and around within our Stalinist state in the public sector in fines, awards and funding?<br />
The problem is that whenever a member of the Stepford front bench announce a record fine, they look so pleased with themselves, are we too thick to see that actually we are fining ourselves which, in the case of a fined NHS trust hospital, must come off the hospital&#039;s budget and thus affect front line services I.e. Money to treat you and I in hospitals. </p>
<p>I feel the EUSSR were wrong to fine Microsoft, they were merely protecting their product&acirc;&euro;&brvbar;.They are successful because they provide something the public want&acirc;&euro;&brvbar;.Obviously, success is unacceptable in a Stalinist state. It seems that often a regulator saying, &acirc;&euro;&oelig;They can easily afford it&acirc;&euro;, justifies the hefty fines  It is another tax on success. Before the current fine them culture came in to fashion, the preferred method of a Labour government was the &acirc;&euro;&oelig;Windfall&acirc;&euro; tax. Same thing really; just a different label. </p>
<p>I personally think, this fine them culture is just the natural progression from the compensation culture&#8230;.Are we too thick to see that every time we sue for compensation, the lawyers make a fortune, the insurers have huge costs, mostly legal fees, and these are passed on to we the customers in the form of huge premiums&#8230;.When we receive our couple of quid compensation do we think that we have really won? The winners are the lawyers, they have probably made ten times as much in fees, we are the losers as we will pay higher and higher premiums, the insurers will just pass this new expense on to us. </p>
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		<title>By: Bazman</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1726</link>
		<dc:creator>Bazman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Network Rail&#039;s top directors are to receive performance bonuses worth more than half their salaries, even though nearly one in five trains continues to run late. The organisation&#039;s employees, on the other hand, will receive a bonus equivalent to less than 5 per of salary, and directors seem to think this is right. Rail workers are ten a penny and don&#039;t work hard enough. Trebles all round. 
To top this farce off. The Commons Public Accounts Committee said the Department for Transport had not been able to provide any explanation to justify the extra cost of funding the infrastructure operator through the private markets rather than with direct public-sector financing. 
Edward Leigh, the Tory chairman of the committee said there was no explanation of  how private-sector lenders could force  Network Rail to justify this extra cost He said &#039;At present, the bottom line for taxpayers is that they are having to provide cover for private-sector lenders to no obvious public advantage&#039; 
Dogma, and jobs for the boys no doubt then? 
I have to agree with you John, fines are not the answer as the taxpayer pays them. The same as the polluter pays principle that ultimately the customer pays the fine. Not a problem if you are a rich customer. Or maybe not even a customer as you are so rich you live abroad and don&#039;t have to put up with high cost and bad service. Who sanctions these payments to directors? themselves? 
What is needed is not a regulator, but good and just laws as well as regulations. Competition cannot really exist in these industries. In the utilities, state owned industries must not believe their luck. Buying up British utilities and over charging their customers in some sort of fix. Whilst having the advantage of being state owned, and presumably state subsidised in their own countries. Didn&#039;t anyone see that one coming? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Network Rail&#039;s top directors are to receive performance bonuses worth more than half their salaries, even though nearly one in five trains continues to run late. The organisation&#039;s employees, on the other hand, will receive a bonus equivalent to less than 5 per of salary, and directors seem to think this is right. Rail workers are ten a penny and don&#039;t work hard enough. Trebles all round.<br />
To top this farce off. The Commons Public Accounts Committee said the Department for Transport had not been able to provide any explanation to justify the extra cost of funding the infrastructure operator through the private markets rather than with direct public-sector financing.<br />
Edward Leigh, the Tory chairman of the committee said there was no explanation of  how private-sector lenders could force  Network Rail to justify this extra cost He said &#039;At present, the bottom line for taxpayers is that they are having to provide cover for private-sector lenders to no obvious public advantage&#039;<br />
Dogma, and jobs for the boys no doubt then?<br />
I have to agree with you John, fines are not the answer as the taxpayer pays them. The same as the polluter pays principle that ultimately the customer pays the fine. Not a problem if you are a rich customer. Or maybe not even a customer as you are so rich you live abroad and don&#039;t have to put up with high cost and bad service. Who sanctions these payments to directors? themselves?<br />
What is needed is not a regulator, but good and just laws as well as regulations. Competition cannot really exist in these industries. In the utilities, state owned industries must not believe their luck. Buying up British utilities and over charging their customers in some sort of fix. Whilst having the advantage of being state owned, and presumably state subsidised in their own countries. Didn&#039;t anyone see that one coming? </p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Fairney</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/02/28/regulators-should-they-try-to-prevent-problems-or-just-collect-the-fines/#comment-1725</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Fairney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Apropos nothing, I have today apologised to my wife for failing to remember our anniversary and fined myself &#194;&#163;1,000 to teach me a lesson.  My wife cannot help but wonder if there is any point in me fining myself, if I collect the fine and suffer no net fiscal penalty. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apropos nothing, I have today apologised to my wife for failing to remember our anniversary and fined myself &Acirc;&pound;1,000 to teach me a lesson.  My wife cannot help but wonder if there is any point in me fining myself, if I collect the fine and suffer no net fiscal penalty. </p>
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