Comments on: The strength of the Euro does not mean we should join it! http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Wed, 23 May 2012 13:35:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: Freeborn John http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2517 Freeborn John Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:37:56 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2517 p.s. I agreed with 99% of the book, so apologies are in order as my previous post was rather harsh in focusing exclusively on the 1% where I might differ. The fact that this book was written a few years ago and the events foretold have largely come to pass merely underlines its authority regarding the general drift; it is hardly your fault the Labour government has signed away some of your bargaining chips at Nice and Lisbon. Even if those treaties undermine a future negotiating position, the aims you set out for a re-negotiation still remain very valid. Indeed for me that was the most interesting section of the book. Hayek said that so long as conservatism is merely ‘opposition to change’ it can delay but not change the direction that other political forces wish to travel in, resulting in conservatives being dragged along a path not of their own choosing. It seems to me that you succeeded in this book in articulating a more appealing alternative to the federalist vision that could change the direction of Britain’s relationship with the EU and the wider world. I do not believe anyone else has succeeded in doing that. p.s. I agreed with 99% of the book, so apologies are in order as my previous post was rather harsh in focusing exclusively on the 1% where I might differ. The fact that this book was written a few years ago and the events foretold have largely come to pass merely underlines its authority regarding the general drift; it is hardly your fault the Labour government has signed away some of your bargaining chips at Nice and Lisbon. Even if those treaties undermine a future negotiating position, the aims you set out for a re-negotiation still remain very valid. Indeed for me that was the most interesting section of the book.

Hayek said that so long as conservatism is merely ‘opposition to change’ it can delay but not change the direction that other political forces wish to travel in, resulting in conservatives being dragged along a path not of their own choosing. It seems to me that you succeeded in this book in articulating a more appealing alternative to the federalist vision that could change the direction of Britain’s relationship with the EU and the wider world. I do not believe anyone else has succeeded in doing that.

]]> By: Freeborn John http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2516 Freeborn John Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:36:21 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2516 I’ve been reading your book ‘Stars and Strife’ and am rather disappointed with the list of reasons for why we cannot leave the EU. At the time of writing you hoped that the UK would be able to negotiate for the return of some powers and for a UK-NAFTA free trade agreement, in return for allowing other European states to integrate further. But surely the Lisbon treaty with its ‘passerelle’ clause puts paid to that negotiating position? The only re-negotiation likely to succeed is one based on the credible expectation that the UK will leave the EU if negotiations fail. Yet you dismiss the threat of EU withdrawal as ‘an act designed to anger France & Germany’. Well I am pretty angry that EU Federalists are attempting to take over the UK in incremental steps while denying their intentions and nobody in Westminster seems prepared to say boo to a goose about it. The impression from your book is that Conservatives just want to encourage EU-sceptics to vote Conservative only to find that once elected you enter half-hearted negotiations that will achieve little-to-nothing. If Conservatives are too timid to negotiate in earnest, or are not prepared to come out and argue the case for a democratic post-EU UK, then the party of Maastricht simply deserves more time in opposition to contemplate the consequences of remaining in the emerging super-state. Reply: The book was written before Labour gave away substantial additional power. I have set out my thoughts on what we do now on this website. It revolves around a Conservative government negotiating the best deal it can and then the people deciding in a referendum whether they think it's good enough or not. I’ve been reading your book ‘Stars and Strife’ and am rather disappointed with the list of reasons for why we cannot leave the EU. At the time of writing you hoped that the UK would be able to negotiate for the return of some powers and for a UK-NAFTA free trade agreement, in return for allowing other European states to integrate further. But surely the Lisbon treaty with its ‘passerelle’ clause puts paid to that negotiating position?

The only re-negotiation likely to succeed is one based on the credible expectation that the UK will leave the EU if negotiations fail. Yet you dismiss the threat of EU withdrawal as ‘an act designed to anger France & Germany’. Well I am pretty angry that EU Federalists are attempting to take over the UK in incremental steps while denying their intentions and nobody in Westminster seems prepared to say boo to a goose about it.

The impression from your book is that Conservatives just want to encourage EU-sceptics to vote Conservative only to find that once elected you enter half-hearted negotiations that will achieve little-to-nothing. If Conservatives are too timid to negotiate in earnest, or are not prepared to come out and argue the case for a democratic post-EU UK, then the party of Maastricht simply deserves more time in opposition to contemplate the consequences of remaining in the emerging super-state.

Reply: The book was written before Labour gave away substantial additional power. I have set out my thoughts on what we do now on this website. It revolves around a Conservative government negotiating the best deal it can and then the people deciding in a referendum whether they think it's good enough or not.

]]> By: Lee Hegarty http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2515 Lee Hegarty Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:42:56 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2515 Sorry, my question was misleading. I am aware of the party line on the Euro but what I had intended to request was higher profile definitive stances on Europe and referendums. I wholeheartedly endorse Mr Redwood's views on Europe and I feel it could be a popular vote winning stance. Europe is seen by many, especially in the left wing media to have destroyed Thatcher and Major and thus be a Tory weakness. This coupled with accusations of Mr Cameron being more about style than substance means to me it would be the perfect issue to rebuff those detractors with. Reply: I agree it was not so-called "Tory divisions on Europe" which put the Tories out of power, but too much European enthusiasm in the form of joining the ERM. I do favour explaining more which powers we wish to repatriate, and how we want a different kind of relationship with the continent, as we cannot volunteer for their political union. Sorry, my question was misleading. I am aware of the party line on the Euro but what I had intended to request was higher profile definitive stances on Europe and referendums. I wholeheartedly endorse Mr Redwood's views on Europe and I feel it could be a popular vote winning stance. Europe is seen by many, especially in the left wing media to have destroyed Thatcher and Major and thus be a Tory weakness. This coupled with accusations of Mr Cameron being more about style than substance means to me it would be the perfect issue to rebuff those detractors with.

Reply: I agree it was not so-called "Tory divisions on Europe" which put the Tories out of power, but too much European enthusiasm in the form of joining the ERM.
I do favour explaining more which powers we wish to repatriate, and how we want a different kind of relationship with the continent, as we cannot volunteer for their political union.

]]> By: Lee Hegarty http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2514 Lee Hegarty Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:12:48 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2514 Your ( and many others) initial views and concerns on single currency are being vindicated. Skepticism towards its economic viabilty and the questionable motivation behind a single currency is definitely growing. Does that mean we can now look forward to a higher profile definitive stance on Europe and the single currency from the party. This is undoubtedly one of those issues which addressed correctly could revitalise the right wing and reengage the centre ground of British politics. Reply: As I understand it the party as a whole is against the Euro in principle and would never recommend entry. Your ( and many others) initial views and concerns on single currency are being vindicated. Skepticism towards its economic viabilty and the questionable motivation behind a single currency is definitely growing. Does that mean we can now look forward to a higher profile definitive stance on Europe and the single currency from the party. This is undoubtedly one of those issues which addressed correctly could revitalise the right wing and reengage the centre ground of British politics.
Reply: As I understand it the party as a whole is against the Euro in principle and would never recommend entry.

]]> By: Donitz http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2513 Donitz Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:31:26 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2513 I have always been very pro Federal Europe more akin to Ken C than John R in my view on the subject. This has always been for the advantages to our great countries trade as opposed to some misguided belief in social legislation. Personally, if I could enforce it I would ship all our socialists off to France. As our currency converges closer to the Euro it would appear to be an opportune time to join. You would think an Irish Horse Thief like myself would be overjoyed at the prospect? A rare occurrence has occurred. I have after much considered debate and even with reference to the many views on this excellent web site changed my mind. I am fast becoming a Eurosceptic! The arguments for are weakening rapidly. I have always been very pro Federal Europe more akin to Ken C than John R in my view on the subject.

This has always been for the advantages to our great countries trade as opposed to some misguided belief in social legislation. Personally, if I could enforce it I would ship all our socialists off to France.

As our currency converges closer to the Euro it would appear to be an opportune time to join. You would think an Irish Horse Thief like myself would be overjoyed at the prospect?

A rare occurrence has occurred. I have after much considered debate and even with reference to the many views on this excellent web site changed my mind.

I am fast becoming a Eurosceptic!
The arguments for are weakening rapidly.

]]> By: Freeborn John http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2512 Freeborn John Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:36:12 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2512 Reply (from JR): ‘I have said I would be happy with a renegotiation without a prior referendum, immediately after a Conservative election victory, followed by a referendum so the people would decide whether the revised deal was sensible or not or if they would rather leave’. It sounds good. I only hope it will become Conservative party policy. There is a Leader in this morning’s Telegraph asking ‘where is the Margaret Thatcher for the 21st century?’ I wouldn’t be surprised if more people thought of your name than any other. Let’s hope the Blair/Brown era will in future be remembered as a pause for breathe between two great steps forward for the liberty and revitalisation of our country. Reply (from JR): ‘I have said I would be happy with a renegotiation without a prior referendum, immediately after a Conservative election victory, followed by a referendum so the people would decide whether the revised deal was sensible or not or if they would rather leave’.

It sounds good. I only hope it will become Conservative party policy.

There is a Leader in this morning’s Telegraph asking ‘where is the Margaret Thatcher for the 21st century?’ I wouldn’t be surprised if more people thought of your name than any other. Let’s hope the Blair/Brown era will in future be remembered as a pause for breathe between two great steps forward for the liberty and revitalisation of our country.

]]> By: Mike Stallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2511 Mike Stallard Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:39:41 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2511 May I remind you, John, of your excellent article a few weeks back when you said that the best future for all of us could be in EFTA? The Euro is strong because of the dollar/sterling weakness only. It consists of Germany and Holland,of course, but also of the southern countries who are, apparently, going through our own 1990 crisis at the moment. Soon all hell will break loose in Euroland. May I remind you, John, of your excellent article a few weeks back when you said that the best future for all of us could be in EFTA?
The Euro is strong because of the dollar/sterling weakness only. It consists of Germany and Holland,of course, but also of the southern countries who are, apparently, going through our own 1990 crisis at the moment.
Soon all hell will break loose in Euroland.

]]> By: Matthew Reynolds http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2510 Matthew Reynolds Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:16:24 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2510 The Euro is just a political project designed to ensure that Brussels can rule an entire Continent. As John rightly points out Euro- land economies have not aligned at all and the single currency is an unstable entity at the best of times. It is bad for democracy that 80% of our laws are made by Brussels and that things that impact on British voters can be made without their elected MP's being able to influence the decision making process. Past pro -European ideas have been bad as shadowing the DM made the Lawson boom even worse while the ERM made a recession even harsher. It is very bad that Labour won a general election in 2005 on a pledge that there would be a referendum on the EU constitution, all the Euro-land elite say that the treaty now signed in a bizzare way by Gordon Brown is the same as that constitution and yet there is to be no plebiscite on the said treaty aka constitution. There is no way that this can be justified & Labour do not deserve to win a general election having lost the moral right to stay in office. Just because a currency goes up & down that is no reason to join it- do the usual EU apologists all think that we are all stupid ? The Euro is just a political project designed to ensure that Brussels can rule an entire Continent. As John rightly points out Euro- land economies have not aligned at all and the single currency is an unstable entity at the best of times. It is bad for democracy that 80% of our laws are made by Brussels and that things that impact on British voters can be made without their elected MP's being able to influence the decision making process. Past pro -European ideas have been bad as shadowing the DM made the Lawson boom even worse while the ERM made a recession even harsher. It is very bad that Labour won a general election in 2005 on a pledge that there would be a referendum on the EU constitution, all the Euro-land elite say that the treaty now signed in a bizzare way by Gordon Brown is the same as that constitution and yet there is to be no plebiscite on the said treaty aka constitution. There is no way that this can be justified & Labour do not deserve to win a general election having lost the moral right to stay in office. Just because a currency goes up & down that is no reason to join it- do the usual EU apologists all think that we are all stupid ?

]]> By: Matthew Reynolds http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2518 Matthew Reynolds Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:16:24 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2518 The Euro is just a political project designed to ensure that Brussels can rule an entire Continent. As John rightly points out Euro- land economies have not aligned at all and the single currency is an unstable entity at the best of times. It is bad for democracy that 80% of our laws are made by Brussels and that things that impact on British voters can be made without their elected MP's being able to influence the decision making process. Past pro -European ideas have been bad as shadowing the DM made the Lawson boom even worse while the ERM made a recession even harsher. It is very bad that Labour won a general election in 2005 on a pledge that there would be a referendum on the EU constitution, all the Euro-land elite say that the treaty now signed in a bizzare way by Gordon Brown is the same as that constitution and yet there is to be no plebiscite on the said treaty aka constitution. There is no way that this can be justified & Labour do not deserve to win a general election having lost the moral right to stay in office. Just because a currency goes up & down that is no reason to join it- do the usual EU apologists all think that we are all stupid ? The Euro is just a political project designed to ensure that Brussels can rule an entire Continent. As John rightly points out Euro- land economies have not aligned at all and the single currency is an unstable entity at the best of times. It is bad for democracy that 80% of our laws are made by Brussels and that things that impact on British voters can be made without their elected MP’s being able to influence the decision making process. Past pro -European ideas have been bad as shadowing the DM made the Lawson boom even worse while the ERM made a recession even harsher. It is very bad that Labour won a general election in 2005 on a pledge that there would be a referendum on the EU constitution, all the Euro-land elite say that the treaty now signed in a bizzare way by Gordon Brown is the same as that constitution and yet there is to be no plebiscite on the said treaty aka constitution. There is no way that this can be justified & Labour do not deserve to win a general election having lost the moral right to stay in office. Just because a currency goes up & down that is no reason to join it- do the usual EU apologists all think that we are all stupid ?

]]> By: Jim Carr http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2509 Jim Carr Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:14:34 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/11/the-strength-of-the-euro-does-not-mean-we-should-join-it/#comment-2509 The Euro is strong as a result of the weak dollar, and is a temporary phenomenon. The Euro is fundamentally a soft currency, for the reasons you mention, and the truth will out eventually. The Euro's true value against the pound is near 50p. The Euro is strong as a result of the weak dollar, and is a temporary phenomenon.
The Euro is fundamentally a soft currency, for the reasons you mention, and the truth will out eventually.
The Euro's true value against the pound is near 50p.

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