Comments on: I want to be more European! http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Wed, 23 May 2012 13:35:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: John Baxter-Smith http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2637 John Baxter-Smith Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:12:42 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2637 John I was surprised to find you of all people praising any aspect of anything ‘European’ but I gather from various comments I have seen of yours you do accept that many things that are handled badly here are done in a much better way in other parts of Europe. It may be an overstatement to say that every other EU country does everything better than here, but I cannot think of too many things that are done better here than everywhere else in Europe. Education, health, roads, standard of living, quality of life etc. etc. I wanted to pick up on the one aspect you mentioned, that on you return to Heathrow there were long queues at Passport control owing to a lack of staff and positions on your return form Munich and again on your return from Copenhagen you faced even longer queues at Heathrow for daring to have a British (so-called EU) passport. I don’t know when you last travelled by car via Calais/Dover, but there, after driving for hours on uncongested roads, you will undoubtedly join a huge queue way back on the motorway link road caused by understaffed overzealous border control police whose sole aim seems to be to ensure you miss your planned ferry. I have also heard horror stories of having to queue longer at Stansted for passport control than the flight lasted. Even last week, travelling via the Tunnel at an extremely quiet period, it took several minutes for a sour faced official to check through a single Dutch family car. I then was delayed for quite a while as the same official required to know, where I had been, how long I had been ‘away’, why I had been away, what my business was, who I worked for etc. etc. I dread to think how long the queue would have been had it been a busy holiday period. US immigration has long been infamous for the horrendous queues and slow processing of arrivals, but getting into the US is an absolute doddle now compared with being an Englishman trying to get back into his home country from another part of Europe I travel quite frequently around Europe, often by car where it is quite a pleasure still. The roads are usually relatively uncongested in comparison with England and I can travel freely though France, Belgium, and Holland to Germany without once being stopped to prove my identity or being questioned about whom I am or what my business is. Even crossing from England to France is relatively straightforward, often just a friendly wave from the border guard and that’s it. One of the fundamentals of being part of the EU is our right of freedom of travel. Even our passports (which cost an exorbitant amount, but which are not necessary for other EU citizens within Europe who have the benefit of inexpensive of free ID cards for travel) have the comical statement “'Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires in the name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance” It’s just a shame the border police here don’t heed that request. US immigration has long been infamous for the horrendous queues and slow processing of arrivals, but getting into the US is an absolute doddle now with here. It’s a joke to many other Europeans and certainly is very unfriendly and unwelcoming to visitors to this country. Reply: I don't agree about all your favourable comparisons, but I do about roads and border policing. I will look in to the issue of delays at the Channel ports as you make an important point. John
I was surprised to find you of all people praising any aspect of anything ‘European’ but I gather from various comments I have seen of yours you do accept that many things that are handled badly here are done in a much better way in other parts of Europe. It may be an overstatement to say that every other EU country does everything better than here, but I cannot think of too many things that are done better here than everywhere else in Europe. Education, health, roads, standard of living, quality of life etc. etc.
I wanted to pick up on the one aspect you mentioned, that on you return to Heathrow there were long queues at Passport control owing to a lack of staff and positions on your return form Munich and again on your return from Copenhagen you faced even longer queues at Heathrow for daring to have a British (so-called EU) passport.
I don’t know when you last travelled by car via Calais/Dover, but there, after driving for hours on uncongested roads, you will undoubtedly join a huge queue way back on the motorway link road caused by understaffed overzealous border control police whose sole aim seems to be to ensure you miss your planned ferry. I have also heard horror stories of having to queue longer at Stansted for passport control than the flight lasted. Even last week, travelling via the Tunnel at an extremely quiet period, it took several minutes for a sour faced official to check through a single Dutch family car. I then was delayed for quite a while as the same official required to know, where I had been, how long I had been ‘away’, why I had been away, what my business was, who I worked for etc. etc. I dread to think how long the queue would have been had it been a busy holiday period. US immigration has long been infamous for the horrendous queues and slow processing of arrivals, but getting into the US is an absolute doddle now compared with being an Englishman trying to get back into his home country from another part of Europe
I travel quite frequently around Europe, often by car where it is quite a pleasure still. The roads are usually relatively uncongested in comparison with England and I can travel freely though France, Belgium, and Holland to Germany without once being stopped to prove my identity or being questioned about whom I am or what my business is. Even crossing from England to France is relatively straightforward, often just a friendly wave from the border guard and that’s it. One of the fundamentals of being part of the EU is our right of freedom of travel. Even our passports (which cost an exorbitant amount, but which are not necessary for other EU citizens within Europe who have the benefit of inexpensive of free ID cards for travel) have the comical statement “'Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires in the name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance” It’s just a shame the border police here don’t heed that request.
US immigration has long been infamous for the horrendous queues and slow processing of arrivals, but getting into the US is an absolute doddle now with here. It’s a joke to many other Europeans and certainly is very unfriendly and unwelcoming to visitors to this country.

Reply: I don't agree about all your favourable comparisons, but I do about roads and border policing. I will look in to the issue of delays at the Channel ports as you make an important point.

]]> By: Adrian Peirson http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2636 Adrian Peirson Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:16:20 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2636 It seems remarkable to me that people can readily define a problem (congested roads) and not take the logical next step to increase capacity. Wrong, the correct solution is to reduce the Population, thereby not only reducing congestion but pollution, crime, prison overcrowding, the housing shortage, NHS and welfare Overstretch. rubbish disposal We also get to leave our children a Much more Beautifull Britain. It seems remarkable to me that people can readily define a problem (congested roads) and not take the logical next step to increase capacity.

Wrong,

the correct solution is to reduce the Population, thereby not only reducing congestion but pollution, crime, prison overcrowding, the housing shortage, NHS and welfare Overstretch. rubbish disposal
We also get to leave our children a Much more Beautifull Britain.

]]> By: Stuart Fairney http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2635 Stuart Fairney Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:03:10 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2635 Rose, come on, you are being fast and loose with the facts "Our seriously poisonous, dangerous, and deafening traffic chaos has resulted from our glorious liberty" I value my liberty above almost all else and commute by road extensively and have done so for more than a decade yet I am neither poisoned, nor more dangerous nor deaf. (Sentence deleted) Rose, come on, you are being fast and loose with the facts

"Our seriously poisonous, dangerous, and deafening traffic chaos has resulted from our glorious liberty"

I value my liberty above almost all else and commute by road extensively and have done so for more than a decade yet I am neither poisoned, nor more dangerous nor deaf.

(Sentence deleted)

]]> By: Derek W. Buxton http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2634 Derek W. Buxton Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:37:21 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2634 Unfortunately although Mr. Redwood is correct, don't expect to see the same sense emanating from the leader and his chums, they've been "greened". A very stupid position to be in since by definition it means that you reduce growth in eveything that matters. But maybe that is what the "greens" want, us all living in the open eating grass. Mind you I expect they will be living high on the hog until the money runs out since they do not understand how the money is generated in the first place. It reminds me of the latter stages in "The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy", the PR men, hairdressers and the like were sent of to a far off planet as an advance party, no one else followed, they were well rid of the idlers. Any one willing to donate a space craft to hold the odd two hundred or so MPs? Sorry but it will not be returning. Unfortunately although Mr. Redwood is correct, don't expect to see the same sense emanating from the leader and his chums, they've been "greened". A very stupid position to be in since by definition it means that you reduce growth in eveything that matters. But maybe that is what the "greens" want, us all living in the open eating grass. Mind you I expect they will be living high on the hog until the money runs out since they do not understand how the money is generated in the first place. It reminds me of the latter stages in "The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy", the PR men, hairdressers and the like were sent of to a far off planet as an advance party, no one else followed, they were well rid of the idlers. Any one willing to donate a space craft to hold the odd two hundred or so MPs? Sorry but it will not be returning.

]]> By: Rose http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2633 Rose Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:20:54 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2633 You write from the heart as Wokingham Man. May I add some countervailing points from Provincial Urban Woman whose vote you need to consider too? 1) The Swedes have a very small population and a large land mass. 2) The US has a very low speed limit and a huge land mass. 3) The speeding Germans are notorious for their brutality in hitting and running. 4) Our annual butchery on the roads (3,000 deaths and 40,000 injuries) makes Culloden look gentle. 5) Look at this web-site for an Austrian angle: <a href="http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/046%" rel="nofollow">http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/0...</a> 20Spring/02provocateur.html 6) What Heath loved most about Continental Europe was its ability to ram roads through anywhere without asking. As Enoch sadly remarked: "Does every generation have to learn again the lesson that there are more important things than that the trains should run on time?" 7) Our seriously poisonous, dangerous, and deafening traffic chaos has resulted from our glorious liberty, as did our sewage in the streets in the 19th century. We finally dealt with that once the Prince Consort and the PM's son-in-law had died from typhoid (by installing main drainage) without losing our liberties, though people at the time thought we would, so why can't we now do the same with traffic pollution? Strange that the deaths of Princess Grace and the late Princess of Wales have not had a similar effect. And what about all those pop singers who died on the roads? 8) Stats: Next time you go to a nice little Nordic country remember we have more people on the dole (by more than a quarter) than the entire population of Norway, and almost half a million more than the population of Denmark. We have as many people not working as the population of Sweden. 9)If we want to take lessons in transport, we should look at Japan, a group of islands with a very dense population (120 million) which has worked out a way of living cheek by jowl in tranquility. Kansai airport (built out in the sea out of consideration for other people) beats anything the Europeans could lay on when it comes to efficiency and good manners. Do try it. It feels as if you are the only passenger when you arrive. And the trains, trams, buses and roads (on which no-one is allowed to park) give you a marvellous choice of getting around. Reply: If you read my other writings you will see I fully appreciate the many drawbacks of the European model in many other respects! You write from the heart as Wokingham Man. May I add some countervailing points from Provincial Urban Woman whose vote you need to consider too?

1) The Swedes have a very small population and a large land mass.
2) The US has a very low speed limit and a huge land mass.
3) The speeding Germans are notorious for their brutality in hitting and running.
4) Our annual butchery on the roads (3,000 deaths and 40,000 injuries) makes Culloden look gentle.
5) Look at this web-site for an Austrian angle:
http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/0…
20Spring/02provocateur.html

6) What Heath loved most about Continental Europe was its ability to ram roads through anywhere without asking. As Enoch sadly remarked: "Does every generation have to learn again the lesson that there are more important things than that the trains should run on time?"
7) Our seriously poisonous, dangerous, and deafening traffic chaos has resulted from our glorious liberty, as did our sewage in the streets in the 19th century. We finally dealt with that once the Prince Consort and the PM's son-in-law had died from typhoid (by installing main drainage) without losing our liberties, though people at the time thought we would, so why can't we now do the same with traffic pollution? Strange that the deaths of Princess Grace and the late Princess of Wales have not had a similar effect. And what about all those pop singers who died on the roads? 8) Stats: Next time you go to a nice little Nordic country remember we have more people on the dole (by more than a quarter) than the entire population of Norway, and almost half a million more than the population of Denmark. We have as many people not working as the population of Sweden.

9)If we want to take lessons in transport, we should look at Japan, a group of islands with a very dense population (120 million) which has worked out a way of living cheek by jowl in tranquility. Kansai airport (built out in the sea out of consideration for other people) beats anything the Europeans could lay on when it comes to efficiency and good manners. Do try it. It feels as if you are the only passenger when you arrive. And the trains, trams, buses and roads (on which no-one is allowed to park) give you a marvellous choice of getting around.

Reply: If you read my other writings you will see I fully appreciate the many drawbacks of the European model in many other respects!

]]> By: Bazman http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2632 Bazman Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:03:30 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2632 As I remember the Green issues where a gift to the Tories to cut costs by not building any roads and to gain middle class political capital at that moment in time. The mantra of 'roads produce cars' is fantasy. Factories produce cars. Work the rest out. Do you think Germans put up with this nonsense. The the truth is though, smooth autobahns are bumper to bumper around Munich and other cities with German businessmen on the 155 mph limiters of their BMW's and Mercedes, but if you drive on the smaller B roads you will find this is not the full picture. The airports should be forced to employ more people, cost cutting again. As I remember the Green issues where a gift to the Tories to cut costs by not building any roads and to gain middle class political capital at that moment in time.
The mantra of 'roads produce cars' is fantasy. Factories produce cars. Work the rest out.
Do you think Germans put up with this nonsense. The the truth is though, smooth autobahns are bumper to bumper around Munich and other cities with German businessmen on the 155 mph limiters of their BMW's and Mercedes, but if you drive on the smaller B roads you will find this is not the full picture.
The airports should be forced to employ more people, cost cutting again.

]]> By: Donitz http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2631 Donitz Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:56:41 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2631 Only the economically active should be allowed to use the roads between 8am and 8pm. If you don't pay tax or if you claim benefits get off the roads to help make the economy more efficient. "No representation without taxation" Only the economically active should be allowed to use the roads between 8am and 8pm.

If you don't pay tax or if you claim benefits get off the roads to help make the economy more efficient.

"No representation without taxation"

]]> By: Gareth O'Shea http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2630 Gareth O'Shea Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:09:05 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2630 The public transport in this country is a disgrace. I choose not to own a car, and so make do with walking or using public transport. I suspect that a lot of the congestion on our roads could genuinely be reduced if we had a competant public transport policy - buses and trains that run frequently, on time and for reasonable expense. It seems that year on year the cost of rail travel goes up at a rate that exceeds inflation, with the railway companies citing rising costs - this doesnt make much sense to me. Yes the costs will rise with inflation, but they shouldnt rise so high, surely? What we need to see are reduced fares and a more reliable service. The public transport in this country is a disgrace. I choose not to own a car, and so make do with walking or using public transport.

I suspect that a lot of the congestion on our roads could genuinely be reduced if we had a competant public transport policy – buses and trains that run frequently, on time and for reasonable expense.

It seems that year on year the cost of rail travel goes up at a rate that exceeds inflation, with the railway companies citing rising costs – this doesnt make much sense to me. Yes the costs will rise with inflation, but they shouldnt rise so high, surely?

What we need to see are reduced fares and a more reliable service.

]]> By: mikestallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2629 mikestallard Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:13:23 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2629 You are so right. We came back from Bangkok yesterday or so and landed at Birmingham. Excellent. Loads of people at immigration where they were polite and kind. We sailed through to find our baggage waiting for us. Dual carriageway almost all the way home compared very well with both Bangkok and Singapore (both third world apparently). I can remember when the Conservatives were in power that road building was pretty impressive. Stanstead (in those far off days) was a real pleasure. It is entirely the Labour/Green fiasco as the post above shows so clearly which has introduced chaos into our once pretty impressive system. You are so right.
We came back from Bangkok yesterday or so and landed at Birmingham. Excellent. Loads of people at immigration where they were polite and kind. We sailed through to find our baggage waiting for us. Dual carriageway almost all the way home compared very well with both Bangkok and Singapore (both third world apparently).
I can remember when the Conservatives were in power that road building was pretty impressive. Stanstead (in those far off days) was a real pleasure.
It is entirely the Labour/Green fiasco as the post above shows so clearly which has introduced chaos into our once pretty impressive system.

]]> By: Freeborn John http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2628 Freeborn John Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:44:43 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/04/17/i-want-to-be-more-european/#comment-2628 I lived in Munich at the time when the ‘new’ airport opened in 1992. The previous airport was of a different vintage entirely; perhaps you can picture it from scenes of the Manchester United ‘Munich disaster’ in 1958 or the shootout following the terrorist attack on the 1972 Olympics. It still looked exactly like the photos from the 1958 crash by the time it closed. Like Heathrow, the old Munich airport was inside the city limits, and was difficult to reach by public transport. Once the new airport opened the old one was used as a nightclub for a while and you could dance around the check-in areas! I wonder if that will ever happen at Heathrow? I used to think of Stansted airport and the new Munich airport as twins. They opened about the same time and both seemed to be set in spacious surroundings with peaceful (compared to LHR) terminal buildings and decent train links. But Stansted now seems totally overwhelmed by the low-cost airline boom, with the woefully inadequate number of immigration officials being my main bugbear. Over Easter I used Luton airport and thought it better. Whenever I return to Munich I am always interested to see the equivalent of their ‘tube map’. Unlike the transport network map of S.E. England the Munich map seems to be a living thing; every year there seems to be an extension to a tube line here or a new station there. There is now a 2nd S-bahn line to the airport and plans for Shanghai-style maglev train. Somehow they seem to combine an integrated transport system in Munich (presumably operated by the public sector) while retaining imagination, entrepreneurial spirit and organisational ability. It always amazes me that ALL the S-bahn lines in Munich converge on a single tunnel under central Munich with trains running just 2-minutes apart through this one tunnel. If the chaps from S.W. Trains were running that system this tunnel would be a single point of failure that brought the whole system to stand-still several times a day. Yet it all works like clockwork in Munich. What distinguishes Heathrow from other airports in Europe is not the airport itself (which is rather good) but the sheer level of congestion in the region which it serves combined with inadequate ground transportation links. We also have a set of airports in London (which is eco-friendly as you can use the nearest) but they are not joined up by anything but road making transfers between them nigh-on impossible. Frankly we really need much bigger thinking on transport in the UK than anyone seems to contemplate; a maglev “UK metro” for example to join up our cities and airports for example. I lived in Munich at the time when the ‘new’ airport opened in 1992. The previous airport was of a different vintage entirely; perhaps you can picture it from scenes of the Manchester United ‘Munich disaster’ in 1958 or the shootout following the terrorist attack on the 1972 Olympics. It still looked exactly like the photos from the 1958 crash by the time it closed. Like Heathrow, the old Munich airport was inside the city limits, and was difficult to reach by public transport. Once the new airport opened the old one was used as a nightclub for a while and you could dance around the check-in areas! I wonder if that will ever happen at Heathrow?

I used to think of Stansted airport and the new Munich airport as twins. They opened about the same time and both seemed to be set in spacious surroundings with peaceful (compared to LHR) terminal buildings and decent train links. But Stansted now seems totally overwhelmed by the low-cost airline boom, with the woefully inadequate number of immigration officials being my main bugbear. Over Easter I used Luton airport and thought it better.

Whenever I return to Munich I am always interested to see the equivalent of their ‘tube map’. Unlike the transport network map of S.E. England the Munich map seems to be a living thing; every year there seems to be an extension to a tube line here or a new station there. There is now a 2nd S-bahn line to the airport and plans for Shanghai-style maglev train. Somehow they seem to combine an integrated transport system in Munich (presumably operated by the public sector) while retaining imagination, entrepreneurial spirit and organisational ability. It always amazes me that ALL the S-bahn lines in Munich converge on a single tunnel under central Munich with trains running just 2-minutes apart through this one tunnel. If the chaps from S.W. Trains were running that system this tunnel would be a single point of failure that brought the whole system to stand-still several times a day. Yet it all works like clockwork in Munich.

What distinguishes Heathrow from other airports in Europe is not the airport itself (which is rather good) but the sheer level of congestion in the region which it serves combined with inadequate ground transportation links. We also have a set of airports in London (which is eco-friendly as you can use the nearest) but they are not joined up by anything but road making transfers between them nigh-on impossible. Frankly we really need much bigger thinking on transport in the UK than anyone seems to contemplate; a maglev “UK metro” for example to join up our cities and airports for example.

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