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	<title>Comments on: How can the PM save the Union?</title>
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		<title>By: Fred Forsythe (not t</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3228</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Forsythe (not t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 21:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3228</guid>
		<description>John, 
What is this old red herring about the cost of an English Parliament? The cost would not be as great as the current setup. The Scots and Welsh are only British if there is cash or glory in it. Britain is dead. Long live a resurrected England. 
 
Get out of Europe, stop long term immigration, reduce numbers of immigrants by deporting illegals and those here for criminal disruptive or fraudulent purposes. Then the English people will start to have a little faith in those who purport to represent them. 
If this does not happen I think that a charismatic English leader will emerge and the English will take back their country by less diplomatic means. Non payment of council tax would do it in a month or a general strike would do it in a week. 
 
Reply: I doubt it, and do not recommend such direct action. The last general Strike was not a success. Proceed by democratic means. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
What is this old red herring about the cost of an English Parliament? The cost would not be as great as the current setup. The Scots and Welsh are only British if there is cash or glory in it. Britain is dead. Long live a resurrected England. </p>
<p>Get out of Europe, stop long term immigration, reduce numbers of immigrants by deporting illegals and those here for criminal disruptive or fraudulent purposes. Then the English people will start to have a little faith in those who purport to represent them.<br />
If this does not happen I think that a charismatic English leader will emerge and the English will take back their country by less diplomatic means. Non payment of council tax would do it in a month or a general strike would do it in a week. </p>
<p>Reply: I doubt it, and do not recommend such direct action. The last general Strike was not a success. Proceed by democratic means. </p>
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		<title>By: Dave Brennan</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3227</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Brennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 21:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3227</guid>
		<description>John you really are just as bad as the others the ENGLISH DO NOT want a english parliament as well as westminster we want FULL AND TOTAL INDEPENDENCE no more no less and you and the other quislings have done your best to stop us and now you are fighting for your lives, &quot;nose&#039;s in the trough&quot; ring any bells you have had your chance to fight for England and you blew it, how long will it be before blair&#039;s heir reins you in and you run away like a child told off. 
 
If you really care about England and the English then break away from the useless Tories (remember john they are a unionist party not a copy of Nu Liebour) and form a true opposition and fight your corner then maybe just maybe a may have some respect for you. 
 
John Redwood cares for England and the Engish I don&#039;t believe you do </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John you really are just as bad as the others the ENGLISH DO NOT want a english parliament as well as westminster we want FULL AND TOTAL INDEPENDENCE no more no less and you and the other quislings have done your best to stop us and now you are fighting for your lives, &quot;nose&#039;s in the trough&quot; ring any bells you have had your chance to fight for England and you blew it, how long will it be before blair&#039;s heir reins you in and you run away like a child told off. </p>
<p>If you really care about England and the English then break away from the useless Tories (remember john they are a unionist party not a copy of Nu Liebour) and form a true opposition and fight your corner then maybe just maybe a may have some respect for you. </p>
<p>John Redwood cares for England and the Engish I don&#039;t believe you do </p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Harris</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3226</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 20:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3226</guid>
		<description>Who the bloody heck wants to save the Union in it&#039;s present form, install an English Parliament to bring about parity with the other constituent countries of the UK and bingo - sorted. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who the bloody heck wants to save the Union in it&#039;s present form, install an English Parliament to bring about parity with the other constituent countries of the UK and bingo &#8211; sorted. </p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3225</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 07:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3225</guid>
		<description>John, 
 
Much of this discussion, including your original post, are very much centred on the politicians and the institutions of government; for instance, whether it would be better for England to have an additional / alternative layer of governance in the form of an English Parliament, or whether it would be better to have our decisions taken for us by some variant of an English Grand Committee. 
 
However, the really important point about an EP is that it would enable the English PEOPLE to vote separately on English matters, not just the politicians, i.e. for there to be distinct manifestos and party positions on England-only matters and UK-wide ones that the people could decide on separately - e.g. vote Tory on English policies but vote Labour on matters concerning the whole of the UK. Your solution would effectively turn UK elections into two (or rather four - five, including NI) in one, as you&#039;d have to have separate manifestos for each country with the sections on currently devolved matters being different for each. But then you would have the sort of conflict I&#039;ve just described, with many voters genuinely preferring one party&#039;s policies for their own nation and another&#039;s for the UK. If you&#039;re going to have separate parliamentary bodies (albeit &#039;virtual&#039; ones under the auspices of a single Westminster parliament), then the logic is that they need to be elected separately. This is also the way to avoid the type of conflict of loyalties for MPs between a UK party / government position and the preferences of voters in the individual UK nations that some objectors to your ideas have raised: who would they be accountable to - the people of England who actually voted for them or the whole of the UK? So you need separate elections. 
 
Another reason why an EGC would not work is the Barnett Formula. This is what legitimises the participation of Scottish and Welsh MPs in voting on English matters, as spending decisions in England determine the budget for their countries. So you need separation of the financing of devolved matters alongside separation of electoral accountability: parliamentary representatives for each country voted on policy areas devolved to them and accountable to the electorate in those countries for the decisions they make and the money they spend. You can&#039;t have a half-way house (which the current set up is) where there is an inequality of representation and expenditure, for which MPs are not accountable to any electorate. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, </p>
<p>Much of this discussion, including your original post, are very much centred on the politicians and the institutions of government; for instance, whether it would be better for England to have an additional / alternative layer of governance in the form of an English Parliament, or whether it would be better to have our decisions taken for us by some variant of an English Grand Committee. </p>
<p>However, the really important point about an EP is that it would enable the English PEOPLE to vote separately on English matters, not just the politicians, i.e. for there to be distinct manifestos and party positions on England-only matters and UK-wide ones that the people could decide on separately &#8211; e.g. vote Tory on English policies but vote Labour on matters concerning the whole of the UK. Your solution would effectively turn UK elections into two (or rather four &#8211; five, including NI) in one, as you&#039;d have to have separate manifestos for each country with the sections on currently devolved matters being different for each. But then you would have the sort of conflict I&#039;ve just described, with many voters genuinely preferring one party&#039;s policies for their own nation and another&#039;s for the UK. If you&#039;re going to have separate parliamentary bodies (albeit &#039;virtual&#039; ones under the auspices of a single Westminster parliament), then the logic is that they need to be elected separately. This is also the way to avoid the type of conflict of loyalties for MPs between a UK party / government position and the preferences of voters in the individual UK nations that some objectors to your ideas have raised: who would they be accountable to &#8211; the people of England who actually voted for them or the whole of the UK? So you need separate elections. </p>
<p>Another reason why an EGC would not work is the Barnett Formula. This is what legitimises the participation of Scottish and Welsh MPs in voting on English matters, as spending decisions in England determine the budget for their countries. So you need separation of the financing of devolved matters alongside separation of electoral accountability: parliamentary representatives for each country voted on policy areas devolved to them and accountable to the electorate in those countries for the decisions they make and the money they spend. You can&#039;t have a half-way house (which the current set up is) where there is an inequality of representation and expenditure, for which MPs are not accountable to any electorate. </p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Peirson</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3224</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Peirson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 01:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3224</guid>
		<description>The Purpose of Devolution is to divide and conqEUr Britain, not really break it up, just shatter it a little, then Jack Straw can go around about how racist the English are towards the Scots,, the Irish and the Welsh to stir up trouble. 
 
Independance would make stuffing us into the EU that much more difficult so they want a Partially Fragmented union with English Scots and Welsh Bickering at each other, Hence the funding Differences. 
 
The Europhiles are Creating a new race of People called &#039; Europeans&#039; with Mass mass mass Immigration, ontop of (many -ed) abortions.(Words left out that cast aspersions on Labour figures) 
 Jack Straw Harriet Harman, Peter Mandelson, John Reid, John Prescott are all former British Communist Party members. 
 
This is what Communist One Worlder Jack Straw had in mind when he said, &#039;the British are not worth saving as a race&#039; 
 
We, the EUropean Elite are Creating a New Race of voters called &#039;Europeans&#039; 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Purpose of Devolution is to divide and conqEUr Britain, not really break it up, just shatter it a little, then Jack Straw can go around about how racist the English are towards the Scots,, the Irish and the Welsh to stir up trouble. </p>
<p>Independance would make stuffing us into the EU that much more difficult so they want a Partially Fragmented union with English Scots and Welsh Bickering at each other, Hence the funding Differences. </p>
<p>The Europhiles are Creating a new race of People called &#039; Europeans&#039; with Mass mass mass Immigration, ontop of (many -ed) abortions.(Words left out that cast aspersions on Labour figures)<br />
 Jack Straw Harriet Harman, Peter Mandelson, John Reid, John Prescott are all former British Communist Party members. </p>
<p>This is what Communist One Worlder Jack Straw had in mind when he said, &#039;the British are not worth saving as a race&#039; </p>
<p>We, the EUropean Elite are Creating a New Race of voters called &#039;Europeans&#039;<br />
  <a href="http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865" rel="nofollow">http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865</a> </p>
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		<title>By: Jefford</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3223</link>
		<dc:creator>Jefford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 00:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3223</guid>
		<description>You are rather coy in stating that the English want &quot;some symmetry&quot; . 
  What we want is equity and fairness on a logical basis ie a national English parliament, government , first minister, civil service and institutions and self rule. Plus also fiscal independence if that is accorded to Scotland . Thats symmetry! 
 
I would be perfectly happy that all this be in the context of a continuing United Kingdom with an overarching British parliament. 
Bearing in mind the totality of British government expenditure along with its colossal built in waste it is a bit mean to deny the English a democratic parliament on the basis of the relatively inor cost savings , if any. 
 
John , your proposals for dual mandate &quot;English&quot; MP&#039;s at Westminster are , I suppose, just one of the stages of the argument that has to be gone through, if only to be examined , found wanting in numerous ways and then rejected. I am sure that you are well aware of the absurdity of the idea and also of the idea of abolishing the Scottish parliament. 
 
You are steadily travelling the logical an correct end point ie an English Parliament. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are rather coy in stating that the English want &quot;some symmetry&quot; .<br />
  What we want is equity and fairness on a logical basis ie a national English parliament, government , first minister, civil service and institutions and self rule. Plus also fiscal independence if that is accorded to Scotland . Thats symmetry! </p>
<p>I would be perfectly happy that all this be in the context of a continuing United Kingdom with an overarching British parliament.<br />
Bearing in mind the totality of British government expenditure along with its colossal built in waste it is a bit mean to deny the English a democratic parliament on the basis of the relatively inor cost savings , if any. </p>
<p>John , your proposals for dual mandate &quot;English&quot; MP&#039;s at Westminster are , I suppose, just one of the stages of the argument that has to be gone through, if only to be examined , found wanting in numerous ways and then rejected. I am sure that you are well aware of the absurdity of the idea and also of the idea of abolishing the Scottish parliament. </p>
<p>You are steadily travelling the logical an correct end point ie an English Parliament. </p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Gash</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3222</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Gash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 22:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3222</guid>
		<description>With respect John you say I am attacking the wrong people, but I watch PMQs most weeks and the English question is barely mentioned and regions hardly ever. 
 
You and your colleagues should be making it a constant thorn in Labour&#039;s side </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect John you say I am attacking the wrong people, but I watch PMQs most weeks and the English question is barely mentioned and regions hardly ever. </p>
<p>You and your colleagues should be making it a constant thorn in Labour&#039;s side </p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3221</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 21:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3221</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nationalists in England now want the extra cost and complexity of a full English Parliament in addition to Westminster.&quot; 
 
No, I would say that an increasing number of English nationalists would prefer a full English parliament INSTEAD of a UK one. Most of us are sick to death of our country being shafted for the sake of a disfunctional union and want INDEPENDENCE. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Nationalists in England now want the extra cost and complexity of a full English Parliament in addition to Westminster.&quot; </p>
<p>No, I would say that an increasing number of English nationalists would prefer a full English parliament INSTEAD of a UK one. Most of us are sick to death of our country being shafted for the sake of a disfunctional union and want INDEPENDENCE. </p>
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		<title>By: mike stallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3220</link>
		<dc:creator>mike stallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 18:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3220</guid>
		<description>The EU is based on regionalism. Since its inception, the idea that the two world wars were caused by nationalism has been at its heart. Breaking up all the natuions of Europe, therefore, is its whole philosophy and always has been. 
Secondly, the genie of Scottish nationalism and self rule has now been let out of the bottle. How will you push it back in again? Even worse, apparently (Telegraph today) Wales, too is becoming self ruled. 
Third, the Regional Governments are there, ruling us in secret. If you scupper these, then you will have to answser to Brussels. 
Fourthly, Gordon Brown is not the sort of man who will actually face up to all this. (words left out) 
 
And this is my country with 1000 years of history to be considered too! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The EU is based on regionalism. Since its inception, the idea that the two world wars were caused by nationalism has been at its heart. Breaking up all the natuions of Europe, therefore, is its whole philosophy and always has been.<br />
Secondly, the genie of Scottish nationalism and self rule has now been let out of the bottle. How will you push it back in again? Even worse, apparently (Telegraph today) Wales, too is becoming self ruled.<br />
Third, the Regional Governments are there, ruling us in secret. If you scupper these, then you will have to answser to Brussels.<br />
Fourthly, Gordon Brown is not the sort of man who will actually face up to all this. (words left out) </p>
<p>And this is my country with 1000 years of history to be considered too! </p>
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		<title>By: Dee</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/11/how-can-the-pm-save-the-union/#comment-3219</link>
		<dc:creator>Dee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 18:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1067#comment-3219</guid>
		<description>John 
You are spot on with your assessment. What we should have is either a Westminster Parliament for the Union of the United Kingdom or a federation of the United Kingdom. How that is arrived at is open for duscussion and debate. 
What we cannot have is this undemocratic version of Government. Recent reports have Gordon Brown arguing with Tony Blair about Education and Health. Hold on he is a Scottish MP who voted to devolve those powers to a Scottish Parliament. 
What is clear is that the English didnt vote on devolution and should have been in a democracy. The time has come for this muddle to be sorted out, after-all Labour were only the second largest party in terms of votes caste at the last election and have no mandate for policies that they devolved to Scotland and Wales. Did English education and health appear in their Scottish manifesto? No it didn&#039;t. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John<br />
You are spot on with your assessment. What we should have is either a Westminster Parliament for the Union of the United Kingdom or a federation of the United Kingdom. How that is arrived at is open for duscussion and debate.<br />
What we cannot have is this undemocratic version of Government. Recent reports have Gordon Brown arguing with Tony Blair about Education and Health. Hold on he is a Scottish MP who voted to devolve those powers to a Scottish Parliament.<br />
What is clear is that the English didnt vote on devolution and should have been in a democracy. The time has come for this muddle to be sorted out, after-all Labour were only the second largest party in terms of votes caste at the last election and have no mandate for policies that they devolved to Scotland and Wales. Did English education and health appear in their Scottish manifesto? No it didn&#039;t. </p>
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