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	<title>Comments on: Crumbling Britain: rail</title>
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	<description>Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today&#039;s issues and tomorrow&#039;s problems</description>
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		<title>By: Neil Craig</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5070</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5070</guid>
		<description>They are very expensive. The LibDems came out for one in Scotland between Glasgow &amp; Edinburgh but since it would cost about &#194;&#163;3 billion so nobody took them seriously. Because they are very fast you want them to be for a long straight line going for hundreds of miles with no stops on the way. tThe Chines built one &amp; though it may have made sense for them in PR reasons it has no economic justification. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are very expensive. The LibDems came out for one in Scotland between Glasgow &amp; Edinburgh but since it would cost about &Acirc;&pound;3 billion so nobody took them seriously. Because they are very fast you want them to be for a long straight line going for hundreds of miles with no stops on the way. tThe Chines built one &amp; though it may have made sense for them in PR reasons it has no economic justification. </p>
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		<title>By: dale</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5069</link>
		<dc:creator>dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5069</guid>
		<description>What ever happened to those magnetic hover trains we were supposed to get? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What ever happened to those magnetic hover trains we were supposed to get? </p>
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		<title>By: Rory</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5068</link>
		<dc:creator>Rory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 09:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5068</guid>
		<description>Rubber tyres are not used on railroads which run mainly above ground for the simple reason that wet rubber provides zero adhesion with steel rails; it has been known to rain, occasionally, on this island. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rubber tyres are not used on railroads which run mainly above ground for the simple reason that wet rubber provides zero adhesion with steel rails; it has been known to rain, occasionally, on this island. </p>
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		<title>By: Freeborn John</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5067</link>
		<dc:creator>Freeborn John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5067</guid>
		<description>Another way to get more value from current infrastructure would be to run the trains later, especially on weekends. The last train on the Waterloo to Reading line for example leaves at 23:35 which is far too early, sometimes necessitating leaving a theatre before the end of a show in order to get to Waterloo in time. 
 
In Munich by contrast the S-bahn (the equivalent of e.g. South-West trains) and the underground run a reduced service throughout the night which makes a big difference to the night-life of that city. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another way to get more value from current infrastructure would be to run the trains later, especially on weekends. The last train on the Waterloo to Reading line for example leaves at 23:35 which is far too early, sometimes necessitating leaving a theatre before the end of a show in order to get to Waterloo in time. </p>
<p>In Munich by contrast the S-bahn (the equivalent of e.g. South-West trains) and the underground run a reduced service throughout the night which makes a big difference to the night-life of that city. </p>
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		<title>By: Radders</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5066</link>
		<dc:creator>Radders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 08:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5066</guid>
		<description>Nick makes some valid points. Why should I need to commute from Zone 2 each day at a speed rarely exceeding 25mph in a carriage designed for 80mph mainline running? Well, because it&#039;s come from the South coast half-empty and stops as it passes through the London suburbs to cram itself with London commuters for the last few miles. 
 
Wouldn&#039;t it make better sense to share the last few miles of track with light-rail rolling stock? Or halve the number of mainline formations entering Zone 4 and provide 4x the light-rail capacity? Reserving our existing narrow rail corridors into central London for heavy steel-on-steel rolling stock doesn&#039;t make much sense any more. 
 
And I wouldn&#039;t knock the canals, either. Adaptation strategies that take into account the increase in the number of days in London forecast to be over 25 deg. by 2030 should take into account the potential for cooler and less crowded water  transport as an alternative to the suffocating heat of the tube. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick makes some valid points. Why should I need to commute from Zone 2 each day at a speed rarely exceeding 25mph in a carriage designed for 80mph mainline running? Well, because it&#039;s come from the South coast half-empty and stops as it passes through the London suburbs to cram itself with London commuters for the last few miles. </p>
<p>Wouldn&#039;t it make better sense to share the last few miles of track with light-rail rolling stock? Or halve the number of mainline formations entering Zone 4 and provide 4x the light-rail capacity? Reserving our existing narrow rail corridors into central London for heavy steel-on-steel rolling stock doesn&#039;t make much sense any more. </p>
<p>And I wouldn&#039;t knock the canals, either. Adaptation strategies that take into account the increase in the number of days in London forecast to be over 25 deg. by 2030 should take into account the potential for cooler and less crowded water  transport as an alternative to the suffocating heat of the tube. </p>
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		<title>By: mikestallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5065</link>
		<dc:creator>mikestallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 20:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5065</guid>
		<description>The EU seems to be in favour of privatisation of railways. Also, of course, it is in favour of separating railtrack/the government and the private companies which run the rolling stock. 
The current inefficiency of railtrack/the government is entirely down to the incompetence of one John Prescott, MP. You are quite right, the two terrible crashes were used as an excuse for nationalisation. Myself, I cannot see, in an ideal world, why we cannot go back to the system that ran in the 1930s where companies cooperated, competed with each other and took a terrific pride in their stock from engines through to signal boxes. 
 
Today my son came up from London quite happily and on time. It took under an hour to cover 80 miles. My wife is going North to Leeds on Wednesday and we often use the route from Harrogate to March, Cambs even with children. The staff are courteous and nice. 
Mind you, I am not a commuter. 
Some local people want, very much, to reopen a (Beeching) closed line between Wisbech and March. So far, they have got absolutely nowhere, even though the rails are still there. 
 
If the Germans can do it so well - an intergrated transport system - is that the technical name Prescott gave it? - why cannot we Brits? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The EU seems to be in favour of privatisation of railways. Also, of course, it is in favour of separating railtrack/the government and the private companies which run the rolling stock.<br />
The current inefficiency of railtrack/the government is entirely down to the incompetence of one John Prescott, MP. You are quite right, the two terrible crashes were used as an excuse for nationalisation. Myself, I cannot see, in an ideal world, why we cannot go back to the system that ran in the 1930s where companies cooperated, competed with each other and took a terrific pride in their stock from engines through to signal boxes. </p>
<p>Today my son came up from London quite happily and on time. It took under an hour to cover 80 miles. My wife is going North to Leeds on Wednesday and we often use the route from Harrogate to March, Cambs even with children. The staff are courteous and nice.<br />
Mind you, I am not a commuter.<br />
Some local people want, very much, to reopen a (Beeching) closed line between Wisbech and March. So far, they have got absolutely nowhere, even though the rails are still there. </p>
<p>If the Germans can do it so well &#8211; an intergrated transport system &#8211; is that the technical name Prescott gave it? &#8211; why cannot we Brits? </p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Hoptroff</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5064</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Hoptroff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5064</guid>
		<description>The difficulties the government have created by placing very high speed services on a mixed use line are nowhere more apparent than on my local route, the West Coast Main Line.  Here the government&#226;&#8364;&#8482;s thirst for &#226;&#8364;&#732;headline&#226;&#8364;&#8482; long-distance journey times and planning for maximum revenue rather than maximum benefit to rail users has resulted in the DfT imposing a timetable which does not meet the needs of all route users.  Nuneaton is set to lose all off-peak inter-city services next year, to be replaced by a stopping service which the DfT fondly believes &#226;&#8364;&#732;need not be a disincentive to passengers&#226;&#8364;&#8482;.  This is purely to make way for longer-haul journeys like Liverpool-London where the DfT can collect a larger slice of Virgin&#226;&#8364;&#8482;s revenue, and ignores the disbenefits felt at intermediate points down the line.  It also ignores the impact of lengthened journey times on daily commuters, to whom an extra 10 minutes every day is far more significant than to an occasional long-distance business traveller.  Given that most car journeys are &#226;&#8364;&#732;local&#226;&#8364;&#8482;, eroding local rail services is hardly the way to encourage a modal shift from car to train. 
 
Not only has Milton Keynes lost its inter-city service to London in the peak since 2004, the commuter service is now slower (and obviously more overcrowded) as there are less slots available on the fast lines which are now  saturated by high-speed services.  This is far from desirable in an area earmarked for huge swathes of (unwanted) additional housing.  Government dithering over lengthening the Pendolino trains used on inter-city services means that they have to be more frequent to offer the required number of seats per hour &#226;&#8364;&#8220; hardly efficient use of line capacity when the platforms can accommodate 2 or 3 extra carriages.  Perhaps the government has forgotten that commuters are also voters. 
 
Whilst in principle dedicated high-speed routes look fantastic, and release capacity on existing inter-city routes, I believe there is much that can be done by more intelligent use of our current network.  Your comments on adapting the existing railway to handle rail freight make sense &#226;&#8364;&#8220; throughout the first half of the 20th century the railways coped with vast tonnages through intelligent operating and suitable infrastructure &#226;&#8364;&#8220; all achieved on a &#226;&#8364;&#732;conventional&#226;&#8364;&#8482; railway shared with stopping and express passenger services.  Providing &#226;&#8364;&#732;lay-by&#226;&#8364;&#8482; loops to allow heavy freight trains to be overtaken was both simple and effective. 
 
Regarding commuter capacity, having lightweight, closely-spaced trains works well on say the Docklands Light Railway, but this relies on the comparatively low speeds on a purely urban railway to enable trains to stop within their short spacing.  On the main line, investment in moving-block signalling would allow some reduction in headways in safety &#226;&#8364;&#8220; an opportunity missed by the present government during the West Coast Main Line upgrade.  The latest generation of aluminium- rather than steel-bodied commuter trains helps, but only if signalling can liberate their enhanced acceleration and braking characteristics. 
 
I wonder whether a broader look at commuter capacity might be needed, given the difficulty and expense of providing a peak capacity which is only utilised for a few hours each day.  For example, can we encourage more flexible working to flatten out demand from the high peak into the shoulder peaks?  I suspect we have many thousands of workers who travel daily to an office only to sit at a computer and communicate with their colleagues by e-mail or phone &#226;&#8364;&#8220; indeed I have done this myself.  Can we encourage employers to endorse more home working?  What is not the answer is the government&#226;&#8364;&#8482;s &#226;&#8364;&#732;demand management&#226;&#8364;&#8482; suggestions for the West Midlands (see their franchise spec) to flatten out demand by pricing commuters out of the high peak who have no choice regarding their working hours.  This smacks of wielding the stick rather than dangling the carrot. 
 
Regarding adhesion, I&#226;&#8364;&#8482;m not sure rubber would give adequate strength at the higher speeds attained by many outer suburban and main line commuter services.  A bit more attention to line-side vegetation by Network Rail in the autumn might help, as might a return to brakes operating on wheel treads to supplement today&#226;&#8364;&#8482;s disc brakes &#226;&#8364;&#8220; these tended to clear the wheel treads of accumulated slime. 
 
I entirely agree that we need to move more freight and commuters onto rail &#226;&#8364;&#8220; a challenge I am sure the industry would be delighted to meet with a more supportive DfT less concerned with unhelpful micromanagement of the rail system to suit their own agenda. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difficulties the government have created by placing very high speed services on a mixed use line are nowhere more apparent than on my local route, the West Coast Main Line.  Here the government&acirc;&euro;&trade;s thirst for &acirc;&euro;&tilde;headline&acirc;&euro;&trade; long-distance journey times and planning for maximum revenue rather than maximum benefit to rail users has resulted in the DfT imposing a timetable which does not meet the needs of all route users.  Nuneaton is set to lose all off-peak inter-city services next year, to be replaced by a stopping service which the DfT fondly believes &acirc;&euro;&tilde;need not be a disincentive to passengers&acirc;&euro;&trade;.  This is purely to make way for longer-haul journeys like Liverpool-London where the DfT can collect a larger slice of Virgin&acirc;&euro;&trade;s revenue, and ignores the disbenefits felt at intermediate points down the line.  It also ignores the impact of lengthened journey times on daily commuters, to whom an extra 10 minutes every day is far more significant than to an occasional long-distance business traveller.  Given that most car journeys are &acirc;&euro;&tilde;local&acirc;&euro;&trade;, eroding local rail services is hardly the way to encourage a modal shift from car to train. </p>
<p>Not only has Milton Keynes lost its inter-city service to London in the peak since 2004, the commuter service is now slower (and obviously more overcrowded) as there are less slots available on the fast lines which are now  saturated by high-speed services.  This is far from desirable in an area earmarked for huge swathes of (unwanted) additional housing.  Government dithering over lengthening the Pendolino trains used on inter-city services means that they have to be more frequent to offer the required number of seats per hour &acirc;&euro;&ldquo; hardly efficient use of line capacity when the platforms can accommodate 2 or 3 extra carriages.  Perhaps the government has forgotten that commuters are also voters. </p>
<p>Whilst in principle dedicated high-speed routes look fantastic, and release capacity on existing inter-city routes, I believe there is much that can be done by more intelligent use of our current network.  Your comments on adapting the existing railway to handle rail freight make sense &acirc;&euro;&ldquo; throughout the first half of the 20th century the railways coped with vast tonnages through intelligent operating and suitable infrastructure &acirc;&euro;&ldquo; all achieved on a &acirc;&euro;&tilde;conventional&acirc;&euro;&trade; railway shared with stopping and express passenger services.  Providing &acirc;&euro;&tilde;lay-by&acirc;&euro;&trade; loops to allow heavy freight trains to be overtaken was both simple and effective. </p>
<p>Regarding commuter capacity, having lightweight, closely-spaced trains works well on say the Docklands Light Railway, but this relies on the comparatively low speeds on a purely urban railway to enable trains to stop within their short spacing.  On the main line, investment in moving-block signalling would allow some reduction in headways in safety &acirc;&euro;&ldquo; an opportunity missed by the present government during the West Coast Main Line upgrade.  The latest generation of aluminium- rather than steel-bodied commuter trains helps, but only if signalling can liberate their enhanced acceleration and braking characteristics. </p>
<p>I wonder whether a broader look at commuter capacity might be needed, given the difficulty and expense of providing a peak capacity which is only utilised for a few hours each day.  For example, can we encourage more flexible working to flatten out demand from the high peak into the shoulder peaks?  I suspect we have many thousands of workers who travel daily to an office only to sit at a computer and communicate with their colleagues by e-mail or phone &acirc;&euro;&ldquo; indeed I have done this myself.  Can we encourage employers to endorse more home working?  What is not the answer is the government&acirc;&euro;&trade;s &acirc;&euro;&tilde;demand management&acirc;&euro;&trade; suggestions for the West Midlands (see their franchise spec) to flatten out demand by pricing commuters out of the high peak who have no choice regarding their working hours.  This smacks of wielding the stick rather than dangling the carrot. </p>
<p>Regarding adhesion, I&acirc;&euro;&trade;m not sure rubber would give adequate strength at the higher speeds attained by many outer suburban and main line commuter services.  A bit more attention to line-side vegetation by Network Rail in the autumn might help, as might a return to brakes operating on wheel treads to supplement today&acirc;&euro;&trade;s disc brakes &acirc;&euro;&ldquo; these tended to clear the wheel treads of accumulated slime. </p>
<p>I entirely agree that we need to move more freight and commuters onto rail &acirc;&euro;&ldquo; a challenge I am sure the industry would be delighted to meet with a more supportive DfT less concerned with unhelpful micromanagement of the rail system to suit their own agenda. </p>
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		<title>By: Neil Craig</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5063</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 16:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5063</guid>
		<description>Good point about speed. It reminds me of Concorde. We put &#194;&#163;1 billion (which was a lot of money back then) into supporting the next step on aircraft - something faster. Then it turned out that the next step was the 747 - no faster but able to carry much larger numbers more cheaply. 
 
If we could do bumper to bumper &amp; if we can do it already on road it is clearly possible, then the capacity of railways could be improved, perhaps by orders of magnitude. If we fully automated it, which is easily feasible on rail but not roads, the cost would drop substantially. 
The potential for a very inexpensive mass passenger &amp; goods transit system clearly exists. 
 
The safety worries are a function of our media. By any real measure trains are far safer per passenger mile than cars. Indeed they are so much more newsworthy because they are rare (&amp; more spectacular). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point about speed. It reminds me of Concorde. We put &Acirc;&pound;1 billion (which was a lot of money back then) into supporting the next step on aircraft &#8211; something faster. Then it turned out that the next step was the 747 &#8211; no faster but able to carry much larger numbers more cheaply. </p>
<p>If we could do bumper to bumper &amp; if we can do it already on road it is clearly possible, then the capacity of railways could be improved, perhaps by orders of magnitude. If we fully automated it, which is easily feasible on rail but not roads, the cost would drop substantially.<br />
The potential for a very inexpensive mass passenger &amp; goods transit system clearly exists. </p>
<p>The safety worries are a function of our media. By any real measure trains are far safer per passenger mile than cars. Indeed they are so much more newsworthy because they are rare (&amp; more spectacular). </p>
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		<title>By: Andrew McConnell</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5062</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew McConnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5062</guid>
		<description>A most excellent write up.  Having previously worked in the industry, I agree with the comments you have made. 
 
Great article. 
 
Andrew </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A most excellent write up.  Having previously worked in the industry, I agree with the comments you have made. </p>
<p>Great article. </p>
<p>Andrew </p>
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		<title>By: Kit</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/03/crumbling-britain-rail/#comment-5061</link>
		<dc:creator>Kit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 13:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1247#comment-5061</guid>
		<description>Pneumatic tyres were invented in 1880s. Why are we still persisting to use and subsidize outdated technology? 
We are lucky we are not being forced to commute by canal boat and horse. ;) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pneumatic tyres were invented in 1880s. Why are we still persisting to use and subsidize outdated technology?<br />
We are lucky we are not being forced to commute by canal boat and horse. <img src='http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
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