Comments on: When in trouble, the government wants to put taxes up http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:05:58 +0000 hourly 1 By: Peter Reddington http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5364 Peter Reddington Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:50:39 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5364 Being a Northerner I would like to agree, labour will not get in for a long, long time. I know a few in the affluent south think us Northerners are a bit thick, workshy, all vote labour, wear flat caps, live in terraced houses and race pigeons. Well I'm afraid it isn't true, we "up north" no longer believe nu lab, in fact I only know one person who wouldn't vote for another party, mind you, compared to him, trigger from "only fools" is bright. My point is, no one up here is fooled anymore, we came to our senses a long time ago, but the problem was who do you vote for if there is no one to vote for, so we didn't vote. That's how labour got into power three times, but no more. My opinion is when labour are voted out in two years they will be out for thirty, mark my words. Being a Northerner I would like to agree, labour will not get in for a long, long time. I know a few in the affluent south think us Northerners are a bit thick, workshy, all vote labour, wear flat caps, live in terraced houses and race pigeons. Well I'm afraid it isn't true, we "up north" no longer believe nu lab, in fact I only know one person who wouldn't vote for another party, mind you, compared to him, trigger from "only fools" is bright. My point is, no one up here is fooled anymore, we came to our senses a long time ago, but the problem was who do you vote for if there is no one to vote for, so we didn't vote. That's how labour got into power three times, but no more. My opinion is when labour are voted out in two years they will be out for thirty, mark my words.

]]> By: Acorn http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5363 Acorn Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:23:31 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5363 APL [4:26 pm]; excellent link, they should make this compulsory viewing in every sixth form as they are going to be the poor sods who will pick up the bill. It should be compulsory for MPs as well. Thanks for finding it, hopefully we will find a UK equivalent one day soon. APL [4:26 pm]; excellent link, they should make this compulsory viewing in every sixth form as they are going to be the poor sods who will pick up the bill. It should be compulsory for MPs as well. Thanks for finding it, hopefully we will find a UK equivalent one day soon.

]]> By: Eddie Allen http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5362 Eddie Allen Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:59:10 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5362 Dear Mr Redwood, I've just read your diary on the housing market and agree with your remarks re: Caroline Flint. She is totally focused on SPIN and doesn't possess a thought in her head about the problem, the effects to people or how to alleviate those or to encourage the markets. I don't possess to know everything but I do have 20 years experience in the housing market myself so I think my ten penneth may be worth a little if not a lot when I make a few suggestions. 1 - Bring back MIRAS This will create the essential advantage an ordinary buyer holds over a speculator which would if our markets permitted be buying off plan so as to fulfill the rental requirement for millions of overseas workers and students which are not generally positioned to buy. 2 - Completely remove Stamp Duty for First Time Buyers and place it on the end on sale. i.e. No loss to revenue and a win for the public and the housing sector per se. 3 - Stamp Duty on purchase could be debated here and I personally favour the same system as Spain. Spain gives a choice to pay the equivalent of stamp duty or purchase tax either up front or at the end ( on sale ), but there tax is more straight-forward at a clean 5%. If such a plan was adopted here then this would make a sizeable GAIN in revenue but it would permit a home owner to have a choice in the matter. Secondly, the government could look into the lending situation and permit / or rather ask lenders to accept "builders deposits" as many do not. That would have an impact of builders basically coming up with competitive sales packages where they can offer a house with 5% deposit paid by the lender and thus that money could be used to pay or partly offset the cost of stamp duty on purchase. So if working such a scheme then First Time buyers could a ) delay payment of duty or b) pay it with an excellent builders deposit and all parties are in a win win situation and revenues would not suffer loss. 4 - My last suggestion would be to create a Self-Build scheme which permits a self-builder to have certain concessions if they build "GREEN". Concessions could vary from get lenders together to have such schemes which are promoted through a borrowing scheme similar if not wholly different to Labour's own which is basically a free licence for a lender not to incur much if any risk as the liquidity scheme is backed by taxpayers. Such a scheme could be adopted on a 15 year repayment at a fixed rate of interest and a complete avoidance of any stamp duty being applied to the property if sold after 15 years. Meanwhile, I think Caroline Flint is obviously lacking a great deal of any kind of sense in the housing market and would be better placed on a market stall in her home town. Dear Mr Redwood, I’ve just read your diary on the housing market and agree with your remarks re: Caroline Flint. She is totally focused on SPIN and doesn’t possess a thought in her head about the problem, the effects to people or how to alleviate those or to encourage the markets.
I don’t possess to know everything but I do have 20 years experience in the housing market myself so I think my ten penneth may be worth a little if not a lot when I make a few suggestions.

1 – Bring back MIRAS
This will create the essential advantage an ordinary buyer holds over a speculator which would if our markets permitted be buying off plan so as to fulfill the rental requirement for millions of overseas workers and students which are not generally positioned to buy.

2 – Completely remove Stamp Duty for First Time Buyers and place it on the end on sale. i.e. No loss to revenue and a win for the public and the housing sector per se.

3 – Stamp Duty on purchase could be debated here and I personally favour the same system as Spain.
Spain gives a choice to pay the equivalent of stamp duty or purchase tax either up front or at the end ( on sale ), but there tax is more straight-forward at a clean 5%.
If such a plan was adopted here then this would make a sizeable GAIN in revenue but it would permit a home owner to have a choice in the matter. Secondly, the government could look into the lending situation and permit / or rather ask lenders to accept “builders deposits” as many do not.
That would have an impact of builders basically coming up with competitive sales packages where they can offer a house with 5% deposit paid by the lender and thus that money could be used to pay or partly offset the cost of stamp duty on purchase.
So if working such a scheme then First Time buyers could a ) delay payment of duty or b) pay it with an excellent builders deposit and all parties are in a win win situation and revenues would not suffer loss.

4 – My last suggestion would be to create a Self-Build scheme which permits a self-builder to have certain concessions if they build “GREEN”. Concessions could vary from get lenders together to have such schemes which are promoted through a borrowing scheme similar if not wholly different to Labour’s own which is basically a free licence for a lender not to incur much if any risk as the liquidity scheme is backed by taxpayers. Such a scheme could be adopted on a 15 year repayment at a fixed rate of interest and a complete avoidance of any stamp duty being applied to the property if sold after 15 years.

Meanwhile, I think Caroline Flint is obviously lacking a great deal of any kind of sense in the housing market and would be better placed on a market stall in her home town.

]]> By: Eddie Allen http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5361 Eddie Allen Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:12:37 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5361 Well if that's the case, next time we're in government could we make a lifetime contract with the people to have a Conservative Government please and I'll be happy to take my compensation if ever that contract is voided by another clown Labour Party ? Well if that's the case, next time we're in government could we make a lifetime contract with the people to have a Conservative Government please and I'll be happy to take my compensation if ever that contract is voided by another clown Labour Party ?

]]> By: Alan Douglas http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5360 Alan Douglas Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:54:07 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5360 John, is there no mechanism whereby the Tories can issue a warning, based on the principle that no government can bind its successor, that any contracts let between now and the next general election will be subject to review with a view to amendment and/or cancellation, should the government change colour at that GE ? Surely there must be some way that we can provisionally spike the worst excesses likely to be "invested" in ? Alan Douglas Reply: There is no mechanism for an Oppositon to block contracts, and once signed contracts have to be honoured or compensation paid for cancellation. However, an Opposition can warn that they do not agree with certain bodies/appointments etc and can warn people not to go to work for them as the possible next government will not need them. John, is there no mechanism whereby the Tories can issue a warning, based on the principle that no government can bind its successor, that any contracts let between now and the next general election will be subject to review with a view to amendment and/or cancellation, should the government change colour at that GE ?

Surely there must be some way that we can provisionally spike the worst excesses likely to be "invested" in ?

Alan Douglas

Reply: There is no mechanism for an Oppositon to block contracts, and once signed contracts have to be honoured or compensation paid for cancellation. However, an Opposition can warn that they do not agree with certain bodies/appointments etc and can warn people not to go to work for them as the possible next government will not need them.

]]> By: APL http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5359 APL Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:26:11 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5359 A primer on how the government (this is an american link, but it applies equally to our government) likes to produce statistics that are meaningless. <a href="http://www.chrismartenson.com/fuzzy_numbers" rel="nofollow">http://www.chrismartenson.com/fuzzy_numbers</a> A primer on how the government (this is an american link, but it applies equally to our government) likes to produce statistics that are meaningless.
http://www.chrismartenson.com/fuzzy_numbers

]]> By: tim holden http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5358 tim holden Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:33:49 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5358 A smoking ruin populated by petty spies will be the Labour heritage. The ruin can be rebuilt - but how shall we rid ourselves of the spies? They are expecting their pensions to be paid. A smoking ruin populated by petty spies will be the Labour heritage. The ruin can be rebuilt – but how shall we rid ourselves of the spies? They are expecting their pensions to be paid.

]]> By: Eddie Allen http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5357 Eddie Allen Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:40:34 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5357 Acorn is right to suggest a separation of central and local / regional government spending. Coupled with proposals for regional decision making and local referenda, city mayors and local people serving local need, then I think the picture would be a lot fairer and more reasonable and of course democratic. Certainly it would give a shot in the arm for local government and if LG spending was under direct public scrutiny through a 4 or 5 year tick list of high and low considerations then surely spending and the needs of society would be a whole lot more in tune with one another ? I think the problem lies in trying to centralize everything and every decision making process because clearly those in central government haven't the first clue how to manage and are too distant from the localities to make decisions which reflect public opinion or their needs to any great extent. Now all we need is a General Election and a clear manifesto which lays out the bare facts of Labour's crucifixion of all things reasonable and makes a distinctly different plan that things CAN and WILL get better as opposed to they're "gonna". ( Satire intended ). Acorn is right to suggest a separation of central and local / regional government spending. Coupled with proposals for regional decision making and local referenda, city mayors and local people serving local need, then I think the picture would be a lot fairer and more reasonable and of course democratic.
Certainly it would give a shot in the arm for local government and if LG spending was under direct public scrutiny through a 4 or 5 year tick list of high and low considerations then surely spending and the needs of society would be a whole lot more in tune with one another ?

I think the problem lies in trying to centralize everything and every decision making process because clearly those in central government haven't the first clue how to manage and are too distant from the localities to make decisions which reflect public opinion or their needs to any great extent.

Now all we need is a General Election and a clear manifesto which lays out the bare facts of Labour's crucifixion of all things reasonable and makes a distinctly different plan that things CAN and WILL get better as opposed to they're "gonna". ( Satire intended ).

]]> By: mikestallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5356 mikestallard Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:15:15 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5356 Here in Wisbech, Cambs,the town centre is being taxed heavily for car parking while they are deliberately building on the ring road. We are to get a Multiplex Cinema and a Superstore, for instance. In the Market Place is a pub where drunken youths spill out - and that is at 9.p.m. (A Labour induced phenomenon). There a few broken windows appearing now in the town centre on Saturday and Sunday mornings too. And we even got a couple of rape/stabbing kind of crimes at 2 a.m. What a contrast it will be when Mr Darling hands over to whomsoever. Instead of the bottle of champagne of Ken Clarke, there will be an impossible mountain of debt and chaos. Clever? I do not think so. I reckon myself that it will be a very long time (if ever) before labour gets back into power after all this misgovernment. Here in Wisbech, Cambs,the town centre is being taxed heavily for car parking while they are deliberately building on the ring road. We are to get a Multiplex Cinema and a Superstore, for instance.
In the Market Place is a pub where drunken youths spill out – and that is at 9.p.m. (A Labour induced phenomenon).
There a few broken windows appearing now in the town centre on Saturday and Sunday mornings too. And we even got a couple of rape/stabbing kind of crimes at 2 a.m.

What a contrast it will be when Mr Darling hands over to whomsoever. Instead of the bottle of champagne of Ken Clarke, there will be an impossible mountain of debt and chaos.
Clever?
I do not think so.
I reckon myself that it will be a very long time (if ever) before labour gets back into power after all this misgovernment.

]]> By: Acorn http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/19/when-in-trouble-the-government-wants-to-put-taxes-up/#comment-5355 Acorn Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:00:40 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1340#comment-5355 It always amazes me how much the British will put up with, there appears to be no limit to how much they will take up their rectums from any government. What would it take to get them out on the streets and do a Howard Beale: 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' ... discuss. Having sat through a few "Fees and Charges" local government budget scrutiny meetings, you will not be surprised if I tell you that the key job is to spot the political "fizzer". That's the one that can be turned into a local newspaper headline. If you can't find one, it will just get nodded through. Some bedtime reading on how the government disguises the public sector pension liabilities, annex 1 is interesting. <a href="http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/publicsectorpensions.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/publics...</a> This one from the IFS shows the sources of local government income (table 4.2). Keep in mind that council house rents are on average half of the private sector equivalent rents. It would be a smart move for the Tories to come up with a radical new plan for local government finance; disconnecting it from central government to a very large extent. This is actually the easiest way to hobble central government. Remember; the power is where the money is. <a href="http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn74.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn74.pdf</a> It always amazes me how much the British will put up with, there appears to be no limit to how much they will take up their rectums from any government. What would it take to get them out on the streets and do a Howard Beale: 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' … discuss.

Having sat through a few "Fees and Charges" local government budget scrutiny meetings, you will not be surprised if I tell you that the key job is to spot the political "fizzer". That's the one that can be turned into a local newspaper headline. If you can't find one, it will just get nodded through.

Some bedtime reading on how the government disguises the public sector pension liabilities, annex 1 is interesting.
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/publics…

This one from the IFS shows the sources of local government income (table 4.2). Keep in mind that council house rents are on average half of the private sector equivalent rents. It would be a smart move for the Tories to come up with a radical new plan for local government finance; disconnecting it from central government to a very large extent. This is actually the easiest way to hobble central government. Remember; the power is where the money is.
http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn74.pdf

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