Comments on: Migrants and the downturn http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:18:17 +0000 hourly 1 By: Pat C http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5468 Pat C Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:34:23 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5468 The comments by William B and Mikesstallard - in reply to John's blog, are two of the most straightforward and lucid descriptions of the essential weakness of this present government - and probably any Labour government, that I have seen. I think it is a great pity that these simple truths, couched in this straightforward language, could not reach a much wider audience! The aspect of this government that almost makes me feel physically sick these days, is the constant repetition by various ministers of their policy achievements, backed up by positive statistics, none of which stands up to any sort of scrutiny! As the general economic situation gets more depressing, so their jolly statements get more outrageous. I cannot understand how people who like to label themselves socialists - which is supposed to indicate that they want to help the less advantaged in society - can become so dishonest. I suppose the thinking must be that if an untruth is recited enough times, somebody will believe it! But unfortunately, as has become obvious, it has also lead to the general public losing all respect for those politicians, and also for politicians in general. Some achievement. The comments by William B and Mikesstallard – in reply to John's blog, are two of the most straightforward and lucid descriptions of the essential weakness of this present government – and probably any Labour government, that I have seen.

I think it is a great pity that these simple truths, couched in this straightforward language, could not reach a much wider audience!

The aspect of this government that almost makes me feel physically sick these days, is the constant repetition by various ministers of their policy achievements, backed up by positive statistics, none of which stands up to any sort of scrutiny! As the general economic situation gets more depressing, so their jolly statements get more outrageous. I cannot understand how people who like to label themselves socialists – which is supposed to indicate that they want to help the less advantaged in society – can become so dishonest. I suppose the thinking must be that if an untruth is recited enough times, somebody will believe it! But unfortunately, as has become obvious, it has also lead to the general public losing all respect for those politicians, and also for politicians in general.

Some achievement.

]]> By: mikestallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5467 mikestallard Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:40:11 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5467 In Wisbech, Cambs, a Lithuanian passport costs about £50.00 with NI number if you haggle. There seem to be quite a lot of Russians who come to my classes for English who say they are Lithuanians....... In Wisbech, Cambs, a Lithuanian passport costs about £50.00 with NI number if you haggle. There seem to be quite a lot of Russians who come to my classes for English who say they are Lithuanians…….

]]> By: Bazman http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5466 Bazman Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:29:04 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5466 The Poles now want to live like people, not five to room/car, and most young here for cash and adventure. Time to go home. Who's is next to keep the nations businesses viable? My money is on the Ukrainians and the Bulgarians. a.k.a. Russians, as many are Russians with foreign passports who only speak Russian. The Poles now want to live like people, not five to room/car, and most young here for cash and adventure. Time to go home.
Who's is next to keep the nations businesses viable? My money is on the Ukrainians and the Bulgarians. a.k.a. Russians, as many are Russians with foreign passports who only speak Russian.

]]> By: mikestallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5465 mikestallard Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:26:38 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5465 Excellent article in this week’s Spectator about immigration. There is no “immigrant community” because the immigrants come from different places. A Catholic Polish plumber, living in a private house and working all hours to send money home to his family in Pomerania has nothing in common with, say, a Somali Warrior living on the dole in London with three wives with assisted housing in two Council houses. They simply do not connect. What is more, the welfare state destroys people who have just enough money for drugs and alcohol, but nothing much else except for a scorn for education and conventional family life. Dangerously, too, (Daniel Hannan’s blog yesterday) the handouts allow people time to arrange suicide bombing and terrorism. Several of the Palestinians, for instance, who turned into terrorists have been on the EU payroll in one way or another because they were living off welfare cheques. Very poor people (West African muslims?) do not have time to do anything else than work for their next crust. And the welfare state is also terribly destructive, as you rightly point out, of the private sector. The vast, burgeoning army of “carers” who provide for “the most vulnerable members of our society” look after themselves first - their own pensions and their own employment prospects. This, in turn, costs everyone else 42% taxation - and rising. And does this win elections? Ask the people of Glasgow East. Excellent article in this week’s Spectator about immigration. There is no “immigrant community” because the immigrants come from different places. A Catholic Polish plumber, living in a private house and working all hours to send money home to his family in Pomerania has nothing in common with, say, a Somali Warrior living on the dole in London with three wives with assisted housing in two Council houses. They simply do not connect.
What is more, the welfare state destroys people who have just enough money for drugs and alcohol, but nothing much else except for a scorn for education and conventional family life.
Dangerously, too, (Daniel Hannan’s blog yesterday) the handouts allow people time to arrange suicide bombing and terrorism. Several of the Palestinians, for instance, who turned into terrorists have been on the EU payroll in one way or another because they were living off welfare cheques. Very poor people (West African muslims?) do not have time to do anything else than work for their next crust.
And the welfare state is also terribly destructive, as you rightly point out, of the private sector. The vast, burgeoning army of “carers” who provide for “the most vulnerable members of our society” look after themselves first – their own pensions and their own employment prospects. This, in turn, costs everyone else 42% taxation – and rising.
And does this win elections? Ask the people of Glasgow East.

]]> By: William B. http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5464 William B. Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:53:11 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5464 Any government guided by ideology rather than pragmatism is bereft of ideas when real life does not match their blueprint. This was the problem with all previous Labour governments who seemed to believe that money grows on trees and that spending by the State always produces benefits. To the (limited) credit of Mr Brown, after 30 years of arguing the opposite he realised that there is a wealth-creating sector to the economy and did far less damage to it than any of his Labour predecessors as Chancellor. But the ideological spending merely expanded. When the State and the unions were in charge of industry Labour governments overspent, having realised that the private sector is a much better creator of wealth the overspending increased, presumably because the previous levels were the base mark and increased wealth was seen as a reason to spend even more. Because their ideology is based on government spending being the only way to solve any problem there is no chance of it being slowed voluntarily. I fear the position by the time of the next election will be dire, not least because they will offer a tax-cut bribe in their final budget. As always it will be those at the bottom of the economic pile who suffer most. When I look back at the benign economic conditions over 10 of the last 11 years I find it utterly shocking that a government could act so recklessly, it is an absolute disgrace and will take another decade to reverse. Any government guided by ideology rather than pragmatism is bereft of ideas when real life does not match their blueprint. This was the problem with all previous Labour governments who seemed to believe that money grows on trees and that spending by the State always produces benefits.

To the (limited) credit of Mr Brown, after 30 years of arguing the opposite he realised that there is a wealth-creating sector to the economy and did far less damage to it than any of his Labour predecessors as Chancellor. But the ideological spending merely expanded. When the State and the unions were in charge of industry Labour governments overspent, having realised that the private sector is a much better creator of wealth the overspending increased, presumably because the previous levels were the base mark and increased wealth was seen as a reason to spend even more.

Because their ideology is based on government spending being the only way to solve any problem there is no chance of it being slowed voluntarily. I fear the position by the time of the next election will be dire, not least because they will offer a tax-cut bribe in their final budget.

As always it will be those at the bottom of the economic pile who suffer most. When I look back at the benign economic conditions over 10 of the last 11 years I find it utterly shocking that a government could act so recklessly, it is an absolute disgrace and will take another decade to reverse.

]]> By: Mark Taylor http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5463 Mark Taylor Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:47:39 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5463 Second paragraph - a typo: migrantion Second paragraph – a typo: migrantion

]]> By: John of Enfield http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5462 John of Enfield Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:33:32 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5462 I couldn't agree more. What I really dislike is the way all this Government justification is delivered using "Newspeak". The phrase "Fuel poverty" for example is used as the basic assumption to enable them to arrive at the ultimate conclusion of a "windfall" tax. If we use "Poverty" and "Too Much tax on the low paid" then we come to a much more logical conclusion. PS Note to the Editor "too sets of" should be "at least two sets" I couldn't agree more. What I really dislike is the way all this Government justification is delivered using "Newspeak". The phrase "Fuel poverty" for example is used as the basic assumption to enable them to arrive at the ultimate conclusion of a "windfall" tax. If we use "Poverty" and "Too Much tax on the low paid" then we come to a much more logical conclusion.

PS Note to the Editor "too sets of" should be "at least two sets"

]]> By: James http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5461 James Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:01:19 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5461 I started my manufacturing company just prior to the last downturn. At that time there were few industrial units available, especially at the size I required for all the machinery for the manufacturing process. I made three moves into into increasingly larger premises as I expanded and employed more staff. These 'steppingstone' premises had all seen their best days but were perfectly acceptable until I was able to move into a brand new building. Alas, I do not think many budding entrepreneurs will be able to follow such a route under this incompetent government. We are beginning to witness the demise of such premises as landlords, unable to find tenants, are choosing to demolish them rather than pay the 100% of business rates they are now liable for depite these premises being empty. Where previously 100% relief was given if industrial premises were empty, Brown has now completely reversed this. The amount so far demolished is recorded in hundreds of thousands of square feet. Recently, near to me a large modern empty building was destroyed by fire and I can't help but wonder if this was a result of this legislation. As we drift through this downturn I wonder how much more industrial square footage will disappear as a result of yet another piece of political tax greed. I trust the Conservatives won't be so shortsighted. I started my manufacturing company just prior to the last downturn. At that time there were few industrial units available, especially at the size I required for all the machinery for the manufacturing process. I made three moves into into increasingly larger premises as I expanded and employed more staff. These 'steppingstone' premises had all seen their best days but were perfectly acceptable until I was able to move into a brand new building.
Alas, I do not think many budding entrepreneurs will be able to follow such a route under this incompetent government. We are beginning to witness the demise of such premises as landlords, unable to find tenants, are choosing to demolish them rather than pay the 100% of business rates they are now liable for depite these premises being empty. Where previously 100% relief was given if industrial premises were empty, Brown has now completely reversed this. The amount so far demolished is recorded in hundreds of thousands of square feet. Recently, near to me a large modern empty building was destroyed by fire and I can't help but wonder if this was a result of this legislation.
As we drift through this downturn I wonder how much more industrial square footage will disappear as a result of yet another piece of political tax greed.
I trust the Conservatives won't be so shortsighted.

]]> By: Acorn http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/26/migrants-and-the-downturn/#comment-5460 Acorn Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:52:18 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1386#comment-5460 Our Polish plumbers are going home because they are only getting 4 Zloty for a Pound, rather than the 7 they were getting when they came here in 04. "If the government is honest in its figures it will help, ...". Fat chance John. Our Polish plumbers are going home because they are only getting 4 Zloty for a Pound, rather than the 7 they were getting when they came here in 04.

"If the government is honest in its figures it will help, …". Fat chance John.

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