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	<title>Comments on: Rip off government &#8211; or just muddled thinking? &#8211; Green taxes</title>
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		<title>By: Bookmarks about Green</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5526</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookmarks about Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 03:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5526</guid>
		<description>[...] - bookmarked by 3 members originally found by samwise23 on 2008-10-01  Rip off government - or just muddled thinking? - Green taxes  http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/ - [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; bookmarked by 3 members originally found by samwise23 on 2008-10-01  Rip off government &#8211; or just muddled thinking? &#8211; Green taxes  <a href="http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/" rel="nofollow">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/</a> &#8211; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Freddy</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5525</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5525</guid>
		<description>I think the global warming scare is rubbish, but I am all in favour of reducing our dependence on importing energy from nasty places like Russia and the Middle East. So I should be in favour of substituting energy taxes for other taxes (assuming it really is a substitution). 
But the trouble is, surely this would be terribly regressive ? It would impact the poor far more than the rich ? That does not strike me as a good way to go. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the global warming scare is rubbish, but I am all in favour of reducing our dependence on importing energy from nasty places like Russia and the Middle East. So I should be in favour of substituting energy taxes for other taxes (assuming it really is a substitution).<br />
But the trouble is, surely this would be terribly regressive ? It would impact the poor far more than the rich ? That does not strike me as a good way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek W. Buxton</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5524</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek W. Buxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5524</guid>
		<description>All the so called &quot;green&quot; measures result in the people, us, paying sums of money that many cannot afford for a myth.  We can ponce about with restricting carbon emmisions, growing &quot;bio-fuels&quot; as long as the money lasts, not long, and it will not have any noticable effect on the planet.  It is  simply a scam for the elite, politicians ha ha, to steal ever more of our money.  Climate always changes, get used to it.  Whilst Mr. Redwoods articles are always worth reading, his leader goes his own way, &quot;I&#039;m greener than you are&quot;.  Remember &quot;green will make you poorer, very quickly&quot;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the so called &quot;green&quot; measures result in the people, us, paying sums of money that many cannot afford for a myth.  We can ponce about with restricting carbon emmisions, growing &quot;bio-fuels&quot; as long as the money lasts, not long, and it will not have any noticable effect on the planet.  It is  simply a scam for the elite, politicians ha ha, to steal ever more of our money.  Climate always changes, get used to it.  Whilst Mr. Redwoods articles are always worth reading, his leader goes his own way, &quot;I&#039;m greener than you are&quot;.  Remember &quot;green will make you poorer, very quickly&quot;.</p>
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		<title>By: Kay Tie</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5522</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Tie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5522</guid>
		<description>I have a little gizmo in my house that calculates the electricity being used (per hour, per day, per month, etc.) and the cost of it. I used it to discover what makes a difference. Things that matter are: turning out unused lights, not boiling more water for coffee than necessary, turning off the (digital) TV when not being watched. 
 
One thing that takes so little power I couldn&#039;t even measure it: standby on my (digital) TV. So the lesson is: ignore everything Mr. Brown says because he&#039;s talking out of his butt. 
 
The complexity of CO2-e emissions is vast. So complex that no New Labour GOSPLAN can possibly assess what is the right thing to do in all cases. The way to reduce CO2-e emissions is to apply a carbon levy at the &quot;pinch points&quot; of oil imports and coal extraction in order to price in the costs of emissions, and then let the market work out how best to react. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a little gizmo in my house that calculates the electricity being used (per hour, per day, per month, etc.) and the cost of it. I used it to discover what makes a difference. Things that matter are: turning out unused lights, not boiling more water for coffee than necessary, turning off the (digital) TV when not being watched. </p>
<p>One thing that takes so little power I couldn&#039;t even measure it: standby on my (digital) TV. So the lesson is: ignore everything Mr. Brown says because he&#039;s talking out of his butt. </p>
<p>The complexity of CO2-e emissions is vast. So complex that no New Labour GOSPLAN can possibly assess what is the right thing to do in all cases. The way to reduce CO2-e emissions is to apply a carbon levy at the &quot;pinch points&quot; of oil imports and coal extraction in order to price in the costs of emissions, and then let the market work out how best to react.</p>
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		<title>By: mikestallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5523</link>
		<dc:creator>mikestallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5523</guid>
		<description>I am one of those people who hopes that David Cameron and his party will put Humpty back on the wall again after the Labour fiasco of the last decade.
I seem to remember, however, that the Conservatives went seriously Green at one point.
I remember the Leader standing on an ice cap. I remember the promise of reducing taxation because Green taxes were going to be imposed instead.
I do hope that in this present crisis, common sense will prevail.
I am hoping, you see, that David Cameron is more Mrs Thatcher than Ted Heath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one of those people who hopes that David Cameron and his party will put Humpty back on the wall again after the Labour fiasco of the last decade.<br />
I seem to remember, however, that the Conservatives went seriously Green at one point.<br />
I remember the Leader standing on an ice cap. I remember the promise of reducing taxation because Green taxes were going to be imposed instead.<br />
I do hope that in this present crisis, common sense will prevail.<br />
I am hoping, you see, that David Cameron is more Mrs Thatcher than Ted Heath.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5521</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5521</guid>
		<description>Well done John ! Peter Ainsworth &amp; Theresa Villiers could do their careers a power of good if they &amp; their shadow teams went on TV and wrote articles in papers making all these points . What is more they could write stinging letters to their Labour opposite numbers asking questions about all the fine points that you have made . The voters worked all this out ages ago and by identifying with the mainstream majority Peter Ainsworth and Theresa Villiers could cement their places in the shadow cabinet by exposing Labour deception by proving that the Tories are opposed to PC lies and on the side of those who who cannot afford regressive &#039; green taxes &#039;.

We need more vigorous opposition on green taxes and George Osborne should be concerntrating on ending excess spending on QUANGO&#039;s , government procurement , civil servants , Whitehall consultants and the tax credit scandal while raising the basic personal allowance . Giving wealthy married couples Â£20 a week off their income tax while levying more &#039; green taxes &#039; that hit the least well off the most is unfair and will not work . Higher fuel duties and APD hikes have not cut car &amp; plane usage - does the Tory high command have to copy the Lib Dems at all times ?

To say public spending is too high , the lower paid pay too much tax and that the scientific evidence proof for man causing climate change ( meaning that we need high &#039; green taxes &#039;) is shaky is an understatement !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done John ! Peter Ainsworth &amp; Theresa Villiers could do their careers a power of good if they &amp; their shadow teams went on TV and wrote articles in papers making all these points . What is more they could write stinging letters to their Labour opposite numbers asking questions about all the fine points that you have made . The voters worked all this out ages ago and by identifying with the mainstream majority Peter Ainsworth and Theresa Villiers could cement their places in the shadow cabinet by exposing Labour deception by proving that the Tories are opposed to PC lies and on the side of those who who cannot afford regressive &#8216; green taxes &#8216;.</p>
<p>We need more vigorous opposition on green taxes and George Osborne should be concerntrating on ending excess spending on QUANGO&#8217;s , government procurement , civil servants , Whitehall consultants and the tax credit scandal while raising the basic personal allowance . Giving wealthy married couples Â£20 a week off their income tax while levying more &#8216; green taxes &#8216; that hit the least well off the most is unfair and will not work . Higher fuel duties and APD hikes have not cut car &amp; plane usage &#8211; does the Tory high command have to copy the Lib Dems at all times ?</p>
<p>To say public spending is too high , the lower paid pay too much tax and that the scientific evidence proof for man causing climate change ( meaning that we need high &#8216; green taxes &#8216;) is shaky is an understatement !</p>
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		<title>By: William B.</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5520</link>
		<dc:creator>William B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5520</guid>
		<description>Now that we appear to be entering a prolonged period of global cooling the truly pernicious effect of so-called green taxes will be apparent to all because we will have to increase our consumption of fuels in order to stay warm, just a couple of weeks of additional central heating will make a big difference to those already struggling to pay their electricity and gas bills. 
 
A time of economic difficulty is a time of retrenchment, a time when we have to look for savings because expenditure is rising and income might be squeezed or even under threat of reduction.  This is when fixed systemic costs show their true colours.  The more fixed costs you build into a system the less room there is for retrenchment. 
 
The government seems keen on the EU&#039;s nutty carbon credits scheme which necessarily involves a carbon credits bureaucracy.  That bureaucracy must remain in place for so long as the scheme operates and it costs money - additional money because it does not replace existing bureaucracy it is an extra layer.  The cost of fuel to the customer must increase because the previous elements of price remain (the cost at source of the oil/gas, the cost of transporting it, the cost of supplying it and the existing tax) but a new element must be added.  It is bad enough making essential fuel more expensive by increasing tax, it is inexcusable to do so in a way that creates a permanent additional cost so that other taxes cannot be reduced by the full amount raised through the new levy. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that we appear to be entering a prolonged period of global cooling the truly pernicious effect of so-called green taxes will be apparent to all because we will have to increase our consumption of fuels in order to stay warm, just a couple of weeks of additional central heating will make a big difference to those already struggling to pay their electricity and gas bills. </p>
<p>A time of economic difficulty is a time of retrenchment, a time when we have to look for savings because expenditure is rising and income might be squeezed or even under threat of reduction.  This is when fixed systemic costs show their true colours.  The more fixed costs you build into a system the less room there is for retrenchment. </p>
<p>The government seems keen on the EU&#039;s nutty carbon credits scheme which necessarily involves a carbon credits bureaucracy.  That bureaucracy must remain in place for so long as the scheme operates and it costs money &#8211; additional money because it does not replace existing bureaucracy it is an extra layer.  The cost of fuel to the customer must increase because the previous elements of price remain (the cost at source of the oil/gas, the cost of transporting it, the cost of supplying it and the existing tax) but a new element must be added.  It is bad enough making essential fuel more expensive by increasing tax, it is inexcusable to do so in a way that creates a permanent additional cost so that other taxes cannot be reduced by the full amount raised through the new levy.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Norfolk</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5519</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny Norfolk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5519</guid>
		<description>This Labour government is the classic dont do as we do . Do as we say. 
 
They think they rule us not govern us. They should lead by example as any good manager does. 
 
I just cannot wait for the next election to see how much they lose by. Britain has always been at heart a conservative country. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This Labour government is the classic dont do as we do . Do as we say. </p>
<p>They think they rule us not govern us. They should lead by example as any good manager does. </p>
<p>I just cannot wait for the next election to see how much they lose by. Britain has always been at heart a conservative country.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Craig</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5518</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5518</guid>
		<description>Once you accept that CO2 rise is causing harm then you are stuck in a Kafkaesque world of trying to negotiate out how much to cut &amp; how to calculate what produces more under which circumstances &amp; which CO2 doesn&#039;t count because it is from &quot;renewable&quot; sources. You end up listening to self styled experts claiming that, if just given the money, they can provide &quot;carbon neutrality&quot;, &quot;zreo carbon homes&quot; &amp; tree planting indulgences from St Al. 
 
This is all nonsense. Global temperature is falling, if CO2 has any measurable effect on temperature, for which there is no actual evidence, then that will be beneficial. The influence of CO2 on plant growth is certainly beneficial. 
 
This is what the 31,000 scientists signatories to the Oregon Petition say. A fact which is wholly censored by such pushers of the non-existent &quot;scientific consensus&quot; as the BBC decide not to report.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oism.org/pproject/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.oism.org/pproject/&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once you accept that CO2 rise is causing harm then you are stuck in a Kafkaesque world of trying to negotiate out how much to cut &amp; how to calculate what produces more under which circumstances &amp; which CO2 doesn&#039;t count because it is from &quot;renewable&quot; sources. You end up listening to self styled experts claiming that, if just given the money, they can provide &quot;carbon neutrality&quot;, &quot;zreo carbon homes&quot; &amp; tree planting indulgences from St Al. </p>
<p>This is all nonsense. Global temperature is falling, if CO2 has any measurable effect on temperature, for which there is no actual evidence, then that will be beneficial. The influence of CO2 on plant growth is certainly beneficial. </p>
<p>This is what the 31,000 scientists signatories to the Oregon Petition say. A fact which is wholly censored by such pushers of the non-existent &quot;scientific consensus&quot; as the BBC decide not to report.  <a href="http://www.oism.org/pproject/" rel="nofollow">http://www.oism.org/pproject/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/28/rip-off-government-or-just-muddled-thinking/#comment-5517</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1401#comment-5517</guid>
		<description>The challenge with energy conservation for the individual is that (A) individuals are creatures of habit (B) individuals like their creature comforts and (C) individual will generally not spend money unless it relates to (i) survival (ii) adding to their comfort or (iii) saves them money in the near term that they can then spend on (i) or (ii) above. 
 
To me, as an average Joe homeowner, I think we would be more successful if we involved individual home owners in reducing their home&#039;s consumption of non-renewable resources in ways that did not (A) force them to change their current or create new habits and (B) did not reduce their current levels of comfort and (iii) saved them money in the near term. 
 
Start with a home energy audit so the home owner can learn more about home energy conservation in general and what they can do to their specific home. We had one done last fall and learned a treamendous amount in both respects, so much so that we wrote about the energy audit report we received on our home web page (in the ECOENERGY area). Have government encourage home energu audits. Have government provide grants in one form or another to reduce the cost of installing more energy efficient devices. Create more energy conservation courses as part of the pimary and secondary school curriculums so tomorrow&#039;s home owners already know what they can do and so they can educate their parents. 
 
There are a lot of possibilities out there for all aspects of energy consumption. Let&#039;s always keep in minid the little guy. 
 
Dan 
DailyHomeRenoTips.com </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The challenge with energy conservation for the individual is that (A) individuals are creatures of habit (B) individuals like their creature comforts and (C) individual will generally not spend money unless it relates to (i) survival (ii) adding to their comfort or (iii) saves them money in the near term that they can then spend on (i) or (ii) above. </p>
<p>To me, as an average Joe homeowner, I think we would be more successful if we involved individual home owners in reducing their home&#039;s consumption of non-renewable resources in ways that did not (A) force them to change their current or create new habits and (B) did not reduce their current levels of comfort and (iii) saved them money in the near term. </p>
<p>Start with a home energy audit so the home owner can learn more about home energy conservation in general and what they can do to their specific home. We had one done last fall and learned a treamendous amount in both respects, so much so that we wrote about the energy audit report we received on our home web page (in the ECOENERGY area). Have government encourage home energu audits. Have government provide grants in one form or another to reduce the cost of installing more energy efficient devices. Create more energy conservation courses as part of the pimary and secondary school curriculums so tomorrow&#039;s home owners already know what they can do and so they can educate their parents. </p>
<p>There are a lot of possibilities out there for all aspects of energy consumption. Let&#039;s always keep in minid the little guy. </p>
<p>Dan<br />
DailyHomeRenoTips.com</p>
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