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	<title>Comments on: The lingering death of New Labour</title>
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	<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/</link>
	<description>Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today&#039;s issues and tomorrow&#039;s problems</description>
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		<title>By: Eddie Allen</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5583</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5583</guid>
		<description>UKIP leader Nigel Farage says his party must change its message. 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7600575.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7600575.st...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
He said the party, which campaigns for Britain&#039;s exit from the EU, had to shift its reputation for negativity and relentless &quot;knocking&quot;. 
 
&quot;We have not been offering good positive alternatives and what I want us to do is to paint a vision of a 21st Century relationship between Britain and our European neighbours.&#039;&#039; 
 
In his keynote speech, Mr Farage said: &quot;David Cameron could kill the Lisbon Treaty stone dead. 
 
&quot;All he has to do is say that there will be a referendum on the treaty after the next election&quot; 
 
&quot;This would strengthen the arms of the Polish and Czech presidents in their refusals to ratify Lisbon and make any attempt at a second referendum in Ireland impossible.&quot; 
 
&quot;So if Cameron were as Eurosceptic as he claims, he would do this. He could stand up this afternoon and announce a retrospective referendum. 
 
&quot;So the question has to be, why doesn&#039;t he do this? Is he not as Eurosceptic as he claims?&quot; 
 
UKIP achieved a breakthrough at the most recent European elections, in 2004, when it gained 2.7 million votes, or 16% of the vote, pushing the Liberal Democrats into fourth place. 
 
&quot;We are the party that says we want to trade with Europe, we want to be friendly with Europe, but we insist that we should make our own laws in this country because the best people to govern Britain are the British people themselves.&#039;&#039; 
 
He also said the British position on enlargement into Ukraine and Georgia was lunacy and fraught with danger for the entire E.U. 
 
He accepted David Cameron will be the next Prime Minister in saying &quot;Let&#039;s not kid ourselves on this - he will be prime minister&quot;. 
 
___________________________________________________ 
 
 
I think his speech is the most honest in stating its position and I think it gives the most reasonable approach to Europe and for Britain. 
I also think it is the least problematic in terms of foreign policy, our democratic deficiencies, the issue of sovereignty, and would satisfy the general feeling in Britain to be one with Europe but not governed by Europe. 
 
I&#039;ll be voting UKIP in the next Euro Elections in 2009, and I&#039;ll be voting UKIP in the General Election unless David Cameron promises a referendum on Europe. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UKIP leader Nigel Farage says his party must change its message.<br />
  <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7600575.stm" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7600575.st" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7600575.st</a>&#8230; </p>
<p>He said the party, which campaigns for Britain&#039;s exit from the EU, had to shift its reputation for negativity and relentless &quot;knocking&quot;. </p>
<p>&quot;We have not been offering good positive alternatives and what I want us to do is to paint a vision of a 21st Century relationship between Britain and our European neighbours.&#039;&#039; </p>
<p>In his keynote speech, Mr Farage said: &quot;David Cameron could kill the Lisbon Treaty stone dead. </p>
<p>&quot;All he has to do is say that there will be a referendum on the treaty after the next election&quot; </p>
<p>&quot;This would strengthen the arms of the Polish and Czech presidents in their refusals to ratify Lisbon and make any attempt at a second referendum in Ireland impossible.&quot; </p>
<p>&quot;So if Cameron were as Eurosceptic as he claims, he would do this. He could stand up this afternoon and announce a retrospective referendum. </p>
<p>&quot;So the question has to be, why doesn&#039;t he do this? Is he not as Eurosceptic as he claims?&quot; </p>
<p>UKIP achieved a breakthrough at the most recent European elections, in 2004, when it gained 2.7 million votes, or 16% of the vote, pushing the Liberal Democrats into fourth place. </p>
<p>&quot;We are the party that says we want to trade with Europe, we want to be friendly with Europe, but we insist that we should make our own laws in this country because the best people to govern Britain are the British people themselves.&#039;&#039; </p>
<p>He also said the British position on enlargement into Ukraine and Georgia was lunacy and fraught with danger for the entire E.U. </p>
<p>He accepted David Cameron will be the next Prime Minister in saying &quot;Let&#039;s not kid ourselves on this &#8211; he will be prime minister&quot;. </p>
<p>___________________________________________________ </p>
<p>I think his speech is the most honest in stating its position and I think it gives the most reasonable approach to Europe and for Britain.<br />
I also think it is the least problematic in terms of foreign policy, our democratic deficiencies, the issue of sovereignty, and would satisfy the general feeling in Britain to be one with Europe but not governed by Europe. </p>
<p>I&#039;ll be voting UKIP in the next Euro Elections in 2009, and I&#039;ll be voting UKIP in the General Election unless David Cameron promises a referendum on Europe. </p>
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		<title>By: mikestallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5582</link>
		<dc:creator>mikestallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 16:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5582</guid>
		<description>I reckon it could be.
The old working class has all but disappeared with heavy industry and the Empire. In its place are a lot of disparate immigrants and a huge number of misfits living largely off the public purse. (Jeremy Kyle anyone?)
The more upwardly mobile members are in the BBC, the vast number of employees of the Government, the Bureaucracy and lobbies. Many are very guilty women who know that they cannot serve their Boss and their families properly. Both men and women, of course, are guilty because they know they are in a non-job and not doing that properly. (sentence left out referring to a named individual)The Lib Dems with their idealism, their greenery, their appeal to women&#039;s rights, their support of the gravy train of Europe, and their delight in sanctimonious pronouncements, can appeal to that guilty constituency far better than the cloth capped unions, whippets and pub culture of the generation that is now passing away even in the North of England.
So, yes, it could well be the end of Labour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I reckon it could be.<br />
The old working class has all but disappeared with heavy industry and the Empire. In its place are a lot of disparate immigrants and a huge number of misfits living largely off the public purse. (Jeremy Kyle anyone?)<br />
The more upwardly mobile members are in the BBC, the vast number of employees of the Government, the Bureaucracy and lobbies. Many are very guilty women who know that they cannot serve their Boss and their families properly. Both men and women, of course, are guilty because they know they are in a non-job and not doing that properly. (sentence left out referring to a named individual)The Lib Dems with their idealism, their greenery, their appeal to women&#8217;s rights, their support of the gravy train of Europe, and their delight in sanctimonious pronouncements, can appeal to that guilty constituency far better than the cloth capped unions, whippets and pub culture of the generation that is now passing away even in the North of England.<br />
So, yes, it could well be the end of Labour.</p>
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		<title>By: adam</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5581</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5581</guid>
		<description>Is this the death of Labour, full stop. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this the death of Labour, full stop. </p>
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		<title>By: adam</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5580</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5580</guid>
		<description>Tony Blair was the beginning and the end. 
 
And the middle. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony Blair was the beginning and the end. </p>
<p>And the middle. </p>
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		<title>By: mikestallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5579</link>
		<dc:creator>mikestallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 07:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5579</guid>
		<description>Schools? Very unpleasant at the moment - unless, of course, you take leave of absence with permanent &quot;stress&quot;. 
As for all the bureaucracy, I think that it will probably be &quot;Tory&quot; rewards in a few months&#039; time. And all those New Labour Jobs like &quot;Social Policy Coordinator, &#163;64,000p.a.&quot; will probably be Tory too. 
I think there is a big threat of the dole, myself. 
Even Ken Livingstone says (Any Answers Radio 4) that he is finding it hard to get a job that he wants to do. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schools? Very unpleasant at the moment &#8211; unless, of course, you take leave of absence with permanent &quot;stress&quot;.<br />
As for all the bureaucracy, I think that it will probably be &quot;Tory&quot; rewards in a few months&#039; time. And all those New Labour Jobs like &quot;Social Policy Coordinator, &pound;64,000p.a.&quot; will probably be Tory too.<br />
I think there is a big threat of the dole, myself.<br />
Even Ken Livingstone says (Any Answers Radio 4) that he is finding it hard to get a job that he wants to do. </p>
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		<title>By: William B.</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5578</link>
		<dc:creator>William B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 06:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5578</guid>
		<description>My difficulty with the concept of &quot;social justice&quot; is that it has no definition, it is just a friendly, fluffy, feel-good term designed to win votes by saying &quot;we are on your side&quot;.  As it has turned out, policies promoted in the name of &quot;social justice&quot; have been among the most expensive and least productive of the last 11 years. 
 
I favour abandoning the term completely and concentrating on selling workable, balanced and productive policies.  Adding an ambiguous/meaningless description to a policy merely muddies the waters by encouraging debate about whether &quot;social justice&quot; is being achieved rather than about whether benefits are paid in the correct amount to the correct people, access to universities is available to all who merit a place and so on. 
 
Reply: To me social justice means opportunity for all </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My difficulty with the concept of &quot;social justice&quot; is that it has no definition, it is just a friendly, fluffy, feel-good term designed to win votes by saying &quot;we are on your side&quot;.  As it has turned out, policies promoted in the name of &quot;social justice&quot; have been among the most expensive and least productive of the last 11 years. </p>
<p>I favour abandoning the term completely and concentrating on selling workable, balanced and productive policies.  Adding an ambiguous/meaningless description to a policy merely muddies the waters by encouraging debate about whether &quot;social justice&quot; is being achieved rather than about whether benefits are paid in the correct amount to the correct people, access to universities is available to all who merit a place and so on. </p>
<p>Reply: To me social justice means opportunity for all </p>
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		<title>By: Socrates</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5577</link>
		<dc:creator>Socrates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 23:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5577</guid>
		<description>I wonder if Darling&#039;s words weren&#039;t quite as inept as they have been portrayed. 
 
1. One of the biggest threats to the economy is militant union action driving up wages. The TUC conference is near. Whilst the brothers (and sisters) themselves are unlikely to pay any heed whatsoever to common sense, it&#039;s just possible that their members may well see reason and be reluctant to follow lemming-like action making the chances of them losing their jobs more likely. 
 
2. If, by some fluke, the economy drags itself out of this imprudent mess in time for the next election - Darling will no doubt claim that of course it was Labour&#039;s virtuoso management that saved us from a new Great Depression! 
 
On the other hand he might be getting his retalliation, for being sacked, in first by effectively quoting the renowned philosopher Stan Laurel - &quot;This is another fine mess you have got me into&quot;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if Darling&#039;s words weren&#039;t quite as inept as they have been portrayed. </p>
<p>1. One of the biggest threats to the economy is militant union action driving up wages. The TUC conference is near. Whilst the brothers (and sisters) themselves are unlikely to pay any heed whatsoever to common sense, it&#039;s just possible that their members may well see reason and be reluctant to follow lemming-like action making the chances of them losing their jobs more likely. </p>
<p>2. If, by some fluke, the economy drags itself out of this imprudent mess in time for the next election &#8211; Darling will no doubt claim that of course it was Labour&#039;s virtuoso management that saved us from a new Great Depression! </p>
<p>On the other hand he might be getting his retalliation, for being sacked, in first by effectively quoting the renowned philosopher Stan Laurel &#8211; &quot;This is another fine mess you have got me into&quot;. </p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Unsworth</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5576</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Unsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5576</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s disturbing that Darling only now says that he thinks it imperative that politicians should be forthright and straightforward.  What on earth has he been doing for his entire political career?  Lying and dissimulating, it appears. 
 
The past decade&#039;s constant attention to presentation rather than content has undoubtedly been the worst aspect of the Nu Lab regime.  It has brought about a total cynicism in the minds of the electorate.  That is the legacy of New Labour - an enslaved, impoverished, dejected, cynical and disbelieving nation. 
 
What is needed now is realism, confidence, honour, competence and decency.  New Labour has demonstrated at length that it simply cannot offer any of these.  Time for it to be ejected from office, never to return. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s disturbing that Darling only now says that he thinks it imperative that politicians should be forthright and straightforward.  What on earth has he been doing for his entire political career?  Lying and dissimulating, it appears. </p>
<p>The past decade&#039;s constant attention to presentation rather than content has undoubtedly been the worst aspect of the Nu Lab regime.  It has brought about a total cynicism in the minds of the electorate.  That is the legacy of New Labour &#8211; an enslaved, impoverished, dejected, cynical and disbelieving nation. </p>
<p>What is needed now is realism, confidence, honour, competence and decency.  New Labour has demonstrated at length that it simply cannot offer any of these.  Time for it to be ejected from office, never to return. </p>
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		<title>By: Bazman</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5575</link>
		<dc:creator>Bazman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5575</guid>
		<description>Anyone who believes the Conservative party represent social justice is a fool. John Redwood maybe, as he his a smart guy, but the rest believe that &quot;There is no justice only us.&quot; The divine right to rule no less. &#039;Tim Nice But Dim&#039; is horribly true in my experience. 
Sorry John, but has to be said. Britain would be third world if the Conservatives had been in power. Labour are now on a dive though for sure. 
 
Reply: Not so - and the leadership today is especially keen on tackling divided Britain </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who believes the Conservative party represent social justice is a fool. John Redwood maybe, as he his a smart guy, but the rest believe that &quot;There is no justice only us.&quot; The divine right to rule no less. &#039;Tim Nice But Dim&#039; is horribly true in my experience.<br />
Sorry John, but has to be said. Britain would be third world if the Conservatives had been in power. Labour are now on a dive though for sure. </p>
<p>Reply: Not so &#8211; and the leadership today is especially keen on tackling divided Britain </p>
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		<title>By: Bazman</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/31/the-lingering-death-of-new-labour/#comment-5574</link>
		<dc:creator>Bazman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1426#comment-5574</guid>
		<description>Matthew Reynolds. You are a gift! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew Reynolds. You are a gift! </p>
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