Comments on: End of the world delayed http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Wed, 23 May 2012 13:35:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: alastair http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5919 alastair Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:31:55 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5919 For those of you who are interested in the nitty gritty of what is and is not working, daily status reports are available here: <a href="https://lhc-commissioning.web.cern.ch/lhc-commissioning/dailynews/index.htm" rel="nofollow">https://lhc-commissioning.web.cern.ch/lhc-commiss...</a> They are updated frequently throughout the day and I find them both incomprehensible and fascinating. For those of you who are interested in the nitty gritty of what is and is not working, daily status reports are available here: https://lhc-commissioning.web.cern.ch/lhc-commiss…

They are updated frequently throughout the day and I find them both incomprehensible and fascinating.

]]> By: Derek http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5918 Derek Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:18:22 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5918 Is this thing actually working yet? Do you think they've tried switching it off and switching it back on again? Is this thing actually working yet? Do you think they've tried switching it off and switching it back on again?

]]> By: Thatcher-right http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5917 Thatcher-right Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:57:04 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5917 Let's start at the beginning. The scientific method consists of: making observations of the physical universe. formulating a model that fits with the observations and testing this model with further observations. There are a couple of basic 'acts of faith' – that everything is open to explanation and that the rules are the same everywhere – and thus far they seem to be holding up OK. Much 19th century science was fine. Newton's model predicted pretty much everything they could observe and the light / electricity / atomic games were coming along nicely. But then catastrophe… a couple of observations (from memory – the pattern of radiation from a black object and the timing of the moons of Jupiter) didn't fit the models. A couple of extra theories (relativity and quantum mechanics) were developed to explain the effects. The basic 'acts of faith' above demand that these be special cases of a more general 'Grand Unified Theory' (GUT). This theory is not yet fully developed and the new collider is aimed at testing bit of the theory. We will never be able to 'see' quarks or black holes but this does not make them any less real than atoms or even electrons (which we can also not 'see'). However, the simplest models that we can construct to explain things we can 'see' requires that they exist. To construct his model for moving bodies Newton had to develop an entirely new branch of mathematics – the calculus. Imagine how a contemporary 'civilian', with little more than a basic knowledge of arithmetic, would struggle to appreciate the power and elegance of his model. My hunch is that the GUT, when we get there, will be as simple and elegant as Newton's law's of motion … and just as incomprehensible to the rest of us! Let's start at the beginning.
The scientific method consists of:
making observations of the physical universe.
formulating a model that fits with the observations
and testing this model with further observations.
There are a couple of basic 'acts of faith' – that everything is open to explanation and that the rules are the same everywhere – and thus far they seem to be holding up OK.
Much 19th century science was fine. Newton's model predicted pretty much everything they could observe and the light / electricity / atomic games were coming along nicely.
But then catastrophe… a couple of observations (from memory – the pattern of radiation from a black object and the timing of the moons of Jupiter) didn't fit the models.
A couple of extra theories (relativity and quantum mechanics) were developed to explain the effects. The basic 'acts of faith' above demand that these be special cases of a more general 'Grand Unified Theory' (GUT). This theory is not yet fully developed and the new collider is aimed at testing bit of the theory.
We will never be able to 'see' quarks or black holes but this does not make them any less real than atoms or even electrons (which we can also not 'see'). However, the simplest models that we can construct to explain things we can 'see' requires that they exist.
To construct his model for moving bodies Newton had to develop an entirely new branch of mathematics – the calculus. Imagine how a contemporary 'civilian', with little more than a basic knowledge of arithmetic, would struggle to appreciate the power and elegance of his model.
My hunch is that the GUT, when we get there, will be as simple and elegant as Newton's law's of motion …
and just as incomprehensible to the rest of us!

]]> By: Thatcher-right http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5916 Thatcher-right Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:51:20 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5916 This is not quite true. The Internet was not invented at CERN. It came from the US military together with various Universities. Tim Berners-Lee at CERN developed World Wide Web - a system for linking together documents on different computers. The World Wide Web uses the Internet to transport data about. This is not quite true.
The Internet was not invented at CERN. It came from the US military together with various Universities.
Tim Berners-Lee at CERN developed World Wide Web – a system for linking together documents on different computers. The World Wide Web uses the Internet to transport data about.

]]> By: mike stallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5915 mike stallard Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:50:48 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5915 I suppose, if I am honest, that my background is Christian: therefore I am interested in science. In the 19th century, science was plainly pointing away from Christianity which, to borrow the reaction of King Mongkut of Thailand was 'ridiculous'. Since Einstein, though, there seems to have been a muddle. The things going on at the small microscopic end and the things going on at the big astrophysics end do not add up. I understand that even Einstein was puzzled by this. What is all this about 11 dimensions? What exactly are the bits of divided atoms (quarks?) thinking about? What exactly is at the bottom of a black hole? Suddenly, we live in a really mysterious universe where the old certainties have passed away. So what is science going to reveal next? I suppose, if I am honest, that my background is Christian: therefore I am interested in science.
In the 19th century, science was plainly pointing away from Christianity which, to borrow the reaction of King Mongkut of Thailand was ‘ridiculous’.
Since Einstein, though, there seems to have been a muddle. The things going on at the small microscopic end and the things going on at the big astrophysics end do not add up. I understand that even Einstein was puzzled by this.
What is all this about 11 dimensions? What exactly are the bits of divided atoms (quarks?) thinking about? What exactly is at the bottom of a black hole?
Suddenly, we live in a really mysterious universe where the old certainties have passed away.
So what is science going to reveal next?

]]> By: DWL http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5914 DWL Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:34:37 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5914 Well we can throw hackneyed, out of context epigrams at each other all afternoon, Tony. I accept that people find it hard to countenance such huge expenditure on something so esoteric. I am carrying out publicly funded technical research myself, and find it impossible and nefarious to justify it in terms of 'net return to society in terms of money invested'. What is the value of a Journal publication? Why should not the money paid to me to do the research not go to the homeless man who is always begging against the outside wall of my laboratory? I have no answer to that, and that makes me uncomfortable. As a result we are careful how we spend money. I can simply marvel that I live in a society that has decided to make what I do possible. However, I object to your evocation of 'angels dancing on pins' and such like. Your whole stance seems to be founded on an understanding that research in academia can be reduced to an unproductive travelling club, full of eggheads detached from reality. The experiment at CERN is the complete opposite. The scientists there are trying to determine what constitutes reality. Lots of intelligent people have decided, argued for, and been awarded the money that will allow them to test a scientific theory and generate lots of data that will give us new insights into our universe. The fact that you cannot see why that is an admirable end, tells me more about you than it does about Science. Well we can throw hackneyed, out of context epigrams at each other all afternoon, Tony.

I accept that people find it hard to countenance such huge expenditure on something so esoteric. I am carrying out publicly funded technical research myself, and find it impossible and nefarious to justify it in terms of 'net return to society in terms of money invested'. What is the value of a Journal publication? Why should not the money paid to me to do the research not go to the homeless man who is always begging against the outside wall of my laboratory? I have no answer to that, and that makes me uncomfortable. As a result we are careful how we spend money. I can simply marvel that I live in a society that has decided to make what I do possible.

However, I object to your evocation of 'angels dancing on pins' and such like. Your whole stance seems to be founded on an understanding that research in academia can be reduced to an unproductive travelling club, full of eggheads detached from reality.

The experiment at CERN is the complete opposite. The scientists there are trying to determine what constitutes reality. Lots of intelligent people have decided, argued for, and been awarded the money that will allow them to test a scientific theory and generate lots of data that will give us new insights into our universe.

The fact that you cannot see why that is an admirable end, tells me more about you than it does about Science.

]]> By: Neil Craig http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5913 Neil Craig Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:30:32 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5913 In any purely materialistic terms music is not "useful", but merely a way of demonstrating our humanity. Science, while it has an even greater role in demonstrating our difference from the animals, is also useful as the fact that we are communicting by internet rather than shouting proves. No comment about Schopenhauer required. In any purely materialistic terms music is not "useful", but merely a way of demonstrating our humanity. Science, while it has an even greater role in demonstrating our difference from the animals, is also useful as the fact that we are communicting by internet rather than shouting proves.

No comment about Schopenhauer required.

]]> By: David Farrer http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5912 David Farrer Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:12:12 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5912 Hmm, I'm sure there wasn't a cuckoo clock on the wall before 8.30 and I note that our fridge is suddenly full of cheese. Now, where's the Toblerone? Hmm,

I'm sure there wasn't a cuckoo clock on the wall before 8.30 and I note that our fridge is suddenly full of cheese.

Now, where's the Toblerone?

]]> By: Eddie Allen http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5911 Eddie Allen Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:25:24 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5911 Forget black holes, we have a big one already. This is the future of an EU President holding unlimited power. <a href="http://rugfish.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://rugfish.blogspot.com/</a> Forget black holes, we have a big one already.

This is the future of an EU President holding unlimited power.

http://rugfish.blogspot.com/

]]> By: Neil Craig http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/09/10/end-of-the-world-delayed/#comment-5910 Neil Craig Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:17:57 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1501#comment-5910 Adam Hart Davis pointed out on the radio that the guy who invented the internet was working at Cerne & designed a way to exchange scientific information. Not to shabby & an example of the way it is literally impossible to predict what good science will produce. There is no investment we make which pays off, to society as a whole, as much as scientific research. The other interesting thing is that every media report has had to feel the need to sex up their reporting by claiming that some "independent astrophysicists" believe it will create a black hole & destroy the world. Apart from the fact that it won't create a black hole & that such a small hole would disintegrate instantly this appears to be based on 2 people in Hawaii one of whom is is an engineer with no experience of "astrophysics" & the other has a degree in biology & is teaching science & maths from "grade school to college". A fine example of how the media are willing to search the world (literally in this case) to find someone to parrot the scare stories they want. Anybody wanting to become a famous scientist, at least for 15 minutes, knows this. Adam Hart Davis pointed out on the radio that the guy who invented the internet was working at Cerne & designed a way to exchange scientific information. Not to shabby & an example of the way it is literally impossible to predict what good science will produce. There is no investment we make which pays off, to society as a whole, as much as scientific research.

The other interesting thing is that every media report has had to feel the need to sex up their reporting by claiming that some "independent astrophysicists" believe it will create a black hole & destroy the world. Apart from the fact that it won't create a black hole & that such a small hole would disintegrate instantly this appears to be based on 2 people in Hawaii one of whom is is an engineer with no experience of "astrophysics" & the other has a degree in biology & is teaching science & maths from "grade school to college". A fine example of how the media are willing to search the world (literally in this case) to find someone to parrot the scare stories they want. Anybody wanting to become a famous scientist, at least for 15 minutes, knows this.

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