"Unfortunately there are some areas that can never be completely privatised, education and health being prime examples." You need to explain your thinking a little further on this one Tony.

I see no fundamental reason why they cannot be privatised completely. We have to separate the PURCHASER of a service from the PROVIDER of that service. There is nothing to stop the state from equalising access to a service by purchasing it using say multiple, competitive versions of BUPA funded by taxpayers, to cover all the primary requirements of that service. [bit like the Swiss system]. Same goes for Education; any kid can go to any school he/she can get accepted into. If your kid can get into Eton or similar, then an education equivalent of a BUPA card will pay some state approved amount toward the fees and you, or some bursary organisation, pay the rest.

Hospitals and Schools would have to demonstrate value for money and actually compete to offer you, say, the best hip replacement job, with a ten year / six million steps warranty.

I would even extend this principle to local government. There is no reason whatsoever why waste collection and disposal, should be purchased and provided by the state.

Remember; free at the point of use leads to abuse. So everybody gets a bill with numbers of pound notes on it, regardless of which "BUPA" card is paying for it. Knowing what things actually cost to supply, can be very enlightening, even to socialists who think money grows on trees.

Why?

How long is is since you have heard a politician say "The NHS is the envy of the world"? Not for a long time, not least because it was never true, and the lie would be even more blatant now when we hear almost weekly about MRSA or some other antibiotic resistant strain that seem to thrive in filthy NHS hospitals.

By the way, WTF is a 'deep clean'? A thing is either clean or is isn't!

Or schools, Why do you think the Labour party in particular hate private schools (yet send their children to them)? Collectivists hate diversity, not the sort of miserable diversity they keep whinging on and on about, but real diversity that could only exist in a privately organised school system.

So on both points, I disagree with you.

Tony Makara: "So, where the state cannot relinquish control it can at least stand back and allow these sectors a greater degree of autonomy. "

It is not a case of the "state cannot relinquish control", rather the state will not relinquish control, unless it is forced to do so.

Tony Makara: "Who could object to educational and health professionals being the prime movers in directing policy in these key areas?"

Not me, but just a minute! Wasn't that the situation we used to be in about twenty years ago? Perhaps not in the schools but I am sure in the medical profession. What you have seen is an ever greater encroachment into the day to day running of the health and education service by central government.

Yes, you are right, the Tories always talk about rolling back the state. But rarely actually do anything about it.

Yes but only to drive a stake through the heart of the Labour Party so we dont ever get into this mess again

He he he he! Why am I not surprised to hear this from you Tony?

Tony Makara: " .. however corporate government, used sensibly across certain areas, would be a way to take politics, and thereby ideology, out of our public services"

The problem is, why would you trust government to act sensibly? In short "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

ANY democratic government will eventually abuse its powers, the only sensible solution is to make sure it has as few powers as possible. From my perspective, that means the authority to defend the country and maybe run the police and courts system. Although looking at the pigs ear this latest government has done there, I am not sure they can be trusted to do that!