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	<title>Comments on: Save the taxpayer!</title>
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	<description>Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today&#039;s issues and tomorrow&#039;s problems</description>
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		<title>By: John Hemming MP</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6780</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hemming MP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 09:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6780</guid>
		<description>The problem is the direction of travel of the tier 1 capital ratio (and tier 2).  The provision of the facility for some subordinated debt gives certainty that the solvency ratios will be maintained and hence depositors cash is secure.  HSBC, for example, have stated they won&#039;t take advantage of this.  Any bank that does take up this facility will end up undermining shareholder value.  That is about right. 
 
Subordinated debt, however, takes a higher priority than equity so this is a good role for government. 
 
It also prevents having to nationalise the banks which we really don&#039;t want to happen. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is the direction of travel of the tier 1 capital ratio (and tier 2).  The provision of the facility for some subordinated debt gives certainty that the solvency ratios will be maintained and hence depositors cash is secure.  HSBC, for example, have stated they won&#039;t take advantage of this.  Any bank that does take up this facility will end up undermining shareholder value.  That is about right. </p>
<p>Subordinated debt, however, takes a higher priority than equity so this is a good role for government. </p>
<p>It also prevents having to nationalise the banks which we really don&#039;t want to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6779</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6779</guid>
		<description>The Government - is to blame for the avoidable situation that the country now faces. There are millions of pensioners looking on in disbelief; people who have lived through this type of nonsence on a number of occasions. Harold Wilson: &#039;Just tighten your belts for two more years&#039;, and here we go again. Would&#039;nt pay these polititians in washers let alone give them further responsibity; control of hand-outs funded by the taxpayer. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Government &#8211; is to blame for the avoidable situation that the country now faces. There are millions of pensioners looking on in disbelief; people who have lived through this type of nonsence on a number of occasions. Harold Wilson: &#039;Just tighten your belts for two more years&#039;, and here we go again. Would&#039;nt pay these polititians in washers let alone give them further responsibity; control of hand-outs funded by the taxpayer.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6778</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6778</guid>
		<description>This blog has the right idea in terms of the principles involved, however the real problem is that we are all tied into these financial institutions through a variety of &quot;products&quot;,  retirement savings being one.  Western societies have tied so much of their wealth in to this financial system that we are all going to take a bath, whatever happens.  It would seem to be a case of taking our lumps now and then making sure that, via a strengthened regulatory framework, this cannot occur again. 
 
Most responses here still show the same need to blame the government for all problems.  Damn the government for not raising interest rates to control us in our desire to indulge ourselves.  Now if they had done so I wonder if any blog responses would have lauded them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This blog has the right idea in terms of the principles involved, however the real problem is that we are all tied into these financial institutions through a variety of &quot;products&quot;,  retirement savings being one.  Western societies have tied so much of their wealth in to this financial system that we are all going to take a bath, whatever happens.  It would seem to be a case of taking our lumps now and then making sure that, via a strengthened regulatory framework, this cannot occur again. </p>
<p>Most responses here still show the same need to blame the government for all problems.  Damn the government for not raising interest rates to control us in our desire to indulge ourselves.  Now if they had done so I wonder if any blog responses would have lauded them.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Corby</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6777</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Corby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 06:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6777</guid>
		<description>Yes - spot on. 
 
What is being overlooked is that there are solvent banks. Moreover even the insolvent ones have realizable assets. The notion that those who got into the mess are the best to get out it is absurd. The solvent banks illustrate the fact that is was possible to run a bank properly over the last decade. 
 
The other point is that this crisis does not have its origins in the capitalism: just the opposite. the Clinton administration actually fostered the provision of mortgages to lower socioeconomic groups who, normally, would never have obtained loans. The Uk government and regulators stood idly by while mortgages of over 100% were offered and 6 times income. 
 
The UK base rate was kept artificially low as a result of having property prices excluded from the inflation target. This is now working against reductions as the myopic Governor of the Bank of England has stuck to the narrow targeting. 
 
As to the financial sector regulation is needed to ensure competition. We have had a state of oligopoly, which is going to be made worse by the &quot;sweet heart&quot; takeovers. Adam Smith never advocated &quot;free for all&quot;. We need to have, not detailed regulation, as supplied by the FSA, top level regulation to preserve competition and ensure separation of functions. 
 
Finally there is no crisis so bad that governments cannot make it worse. We will live to rue the day of the days of the packages in the UK and USA. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes &#8211; spot on. </p>
<p>What is being overlooked is that there are solvent banks. Moreover even the insolvent ones have realizable assets. The notion that those who got into the mess are the best to get out it is absurd. The solvent banks illustrate the fact that is was possible to run a bank properly over the last decade. </p>
<p>The other point is that this crisis does not have its origins in the capitalism: just the opposite. the Clinton administration actually fostered the provision of mortgages to lower socioeconomic groups who, normally, would never have obtained loans. The Uk government and regulators stood idly by while mortgages of over 100% were offered and 6 times income. </p>
<p>The UK base rate was kept artificially low as a result of having property prices excluded from the inflation target. This is now working against reductions as the myopic Governor of the Bank of England has stuck to the narrow targeting. </p>
<p>As to the financial sector regulation is needed to ensure competition. We have had a state of oligopoly, which is going to be made worse by the &quot;sweet heart&quot; takeovers. Adam Smith never advocated &quot;free for all&quot;. We need to have, not detailed regulation, as supplied by the FSA, top level regulation to preserve competition and ensure separation of functions. </p>
<p>Finally there is no crisis so bad that governments cannot make it worse. We will live to rue the day of the days of the packages in the UK and USA.</p>
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		<title>By: StevenL</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6776</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6776</guid>
		<description>When you put it like that then yes, I guess it is an awful idea.  Fingers crossed the government interventions work then. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you put it like that then yes, I guess it is an awful idea.  Fingers crossed the government interventions work then.</p>
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		<title>By: mikestallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6775</link>
		<dc:creator>mikestallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6775</guid>
		<description>Yes, it is an awful idea. 
Since the abandonment of gold, the dollar has been the currency which people depend on when they need a solid currency to work on. This is as true today in Zimbabwe as in the Middle East. 
If the dollar goes down, then there will, at least for some time, be no solidity in anyone&#039;s pocket. It will be as if gold turned into base metal. 
A lot of people (including my own son) will be ruined. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is an awful idea.<br />
Since the abandonment of gold, the dollar has been the currency which people depend on when they need a solid currency to work on. This is as true today in Zimbabwe as in the Middle East.<br />
If the dollar goes down, then there will, at least for some time, be no solidity in anyone&#039;s pocket. It will be as if gold turned into base metal.<br />
A lot of people (including my own son) will be ruined.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Dan H.</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6774</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Dan H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6774</guid>
		<description>What is most irritating about this crisis is what this most inept of Governments is not doing. As things stand, they have signed the taxpayer up to a huge new set of liabilities, but have yet to make any noise whatsoever about curbing their own extravagant and reckless spending of taxpayers&#039; money. 
 
So, ID Cards still haven&#039;t been abandoned, the NHS Plan for IT still has not had a merciful stake through its heart, and lo and behold but the morons are planning a mega-database of communications, which will do little save for promoting the use of strong encryption. 
 
Similarly their insanely-measured poverty targets are still having money thrown at them in the vain hope of finding a solution, and the low-paid and benefit-dependent classes are still subject to iniquitous rates of marginal taxation. 
 
How&#039;s about these silly buggers in Government ceasing playing fast and loose with taxpayers&#039; money, and putting their own house in order first? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is most irritating about this crisis is what this most inept of Governments is not doing. As things stand, they have signed the taxpayer up to a huge new set of liabilities, but have yet to make any noise whatsoever about curbing their own extravagant and reckless spending of taxpayers&#039; money. </p>
<p>So, ID Cards still haven&#039;t been abandoned, the NHS Plan for IT still has not had a merciful stake through its heart, and lo and behold but the morons are planning a mega-database of communications, which will do little save for promoting the use of strong encryption. </p>
<p>Similarly their insanely-measured poverty targets are still having money thrown at them in the vain hope of finding a solution, and the low-paid and benefit-dependent classes are still subject to iniquitous rates of marginal taxation. </p>
<p>How&#039;s about these silly buggers in Government ceasing playing fast and loose with taxpayers&#039; money, and putting their own house in order first?</p>
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		<title>By: Blackacre</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6773</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackacre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 08:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6773</guid>
		<description>Problem is that Banks are different.  It has proved impossible to get through this with conventional measures so I think the government is right to hold its nose and bail them out.  It is unpalatable but the best way of getting money moving again.  Letting Lehman go should have been the right decision on normal thinking, but appears to have made the banks more nervous. 
 
And I do not think the Conservatives would in office have done much different. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Problem is that Banks are different.  It has proved impossible to get through this with conventional measures so I think the government is right to hold its nose and bail them out.  It is unpalatable but the best way of getting money moving again.  Letting Lehman go should have been the right decision on normal thinking, but appears to have made the banks more nervous. </p>
<p>And I do not think the Conservatives would in office have done much different.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie Allen</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6772</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6772</guid>
		<description>David Cameron should suggest that the government considers emergency legislation to prevent families being evicted under repossession until the economic crisis has been stabalised. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Cameron should suggest that the government considers emergency legislation to prevent families being evicted under repossession until the economic crisis has been stabalised.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie Allen</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/10/06/save-the-taxpayer/#comment-6771</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1718#comment-6771</guid>
		<description>Businesses need to be saved otherwise millions will be out of work. This will lead to loss of tax revenue and depression unless government intervenes directly on behalf of taxpayers. 
Government should make a pot of taxpayers money available to loan direct to struggling businesses and to new businesses. 
 
It should remove the threat to business by offering taxpayer loans to business in order to keep them liquid and save jobs. 
 
Russia did this a fortnight ago. 
 
Limit the affects of banks &#039;power&#039; on our society by making alternative funding available at interest rates and loan payments which are affordable and geared to the business, and put people first by saving jobs. 
Our manufacturing base and infrastructure must be protected. 
 
The banking sector should revitalise itself by raising more capital through the sale of shares. 
 
No one is seeing the obvious problem by the USA&#039;s $250,000 deposit guarantee which will inevitably mean some European depositors will be moving money to the U.S. So savings rates here must either be improved or tax on the returns must be lowered to make saving here more beneficial. 
 
Forget the free market because the only one&#039;s paying for it are British homeowners as the whole of Europe has enjoyed the ride on the British public&#039;s personal indebtedness. 
 
Our home equity has driven Europe. 
Our balance of payments deficit proves we buy more from Europe than they do from us, and its clear that without a housing boom in Britain enabling tens of thousands of British homeowners to take money from their homes, many European house builders would likely not be in business. 
Same with European car manufacturers. 
 
It is OUR debt that&#039;s keeping the &quot;free market economy&quot; on the road and it&#039;s time to put a stop stop it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Businesses need to be saved otherwise millions will be out of work. This will lead to loss of tax revenue and depression unless government intervenes directly on behalf of taxpayers.<br />
Government should make a pot of taxpayers money available to loan direct to struggling businesses and to new businesses. </p>
<p>It should remove the threat to business by offering taxpayer loans to business in order to keep them liquid and save jobs. </p>
<p>Russia did this a fortnight ago. </p>
<p>Limit the affects of banks &#039;power&#039; on our society by making alternative funding available at interest rates and loan payments which are affordable and geared to the business, and put people first by saving jobs.<br />
Our manufacturing base and infrastructure must be protected. </p>
<p>The banking sector should revitalise itself by raising more capital through the sale of shares. </p>
<p>No one is seeing the obvious problem by the USA&#039;s $250,000 deposit guarantee which will inevitably mean some European depositors will be moving money to the U.S. So savings rates here must either be improved or tax on the returns must be lowered to make saving here more beneficial. </p>
<p>Forget the free market because the only one&#039;s paying for it are British homeowners as the whole of Europe has enjoyed the ride on the British public&#039;s personal indebtedness. </p>
<p>Our home equity has driven Europe.<br />
Our balance of payments deficit proves we buy more from Europe than they do from us, and its clear that without a housing boom in Britain enabling tens of thousands of British homeowners to take money from their homes, many European house builders would likely not be in business.<br />
Same with European car manufacturers. </p>
<p>It is OUR debt that&#039;s keeping the &quot;free market economy&quot; on the road and it&#039;s time to put a stop stop it.</p>
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