Comments on: Three cheers for Damian Green http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:05:58 +0000 hourly 1 By: Blank Xavier http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8656 Blank Xavier Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:43:50 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8656 I've just started reading "Road to Serfdom". Hayek points out something obvious but usually missed; you may well grant power to the State by a democratic process - but the fact the power was granted in that way offers absolutely no guarantees about how that power will be used. We elect our Government by a democratic process, that Government grants itself wide ranging powers through the democratic process (MPs voting on new legislation granting powers to the State) and then uses those new powers as it sees fit. The *use* of those powers is only weakly subject to democratic controls - the press, the opposition, the possibility of failing to be re-elected every four years - and so they are only weakly democratic in their use. I've just started reading "Road to Serfdom".

Hayek points out something obvious but usually missed; you may well grant power to the State by a democratic process – but the fact the power was granted in that way offers absolutely no guarantees about how that power will be used.

We elect our Government by a democratic process, that Government grants itself wide ranging powers through the democratic process (MPs voting on new legislation granting powers to the State) and then uses those new powers as it sees fit.

The *use* of those powers is only weakly subject to democratic controls – the press, the opposition, the possibility of failing to be re-elected every four years – and so they are only weakly democratic in their use.

]]> By: jean baker http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8655 jean baker Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:04:03 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8655 You appear to be confusing democratic government with 'dictatorship'. The latter - State control - has emerged as Nulabor's (concealed) "vision" when elected. It serves 'itself and it's own' - not the nation. It does so by threat, menace and bullying ..... You appear to be confusing democratic government with 'dictatorship'.
The latter – State control – has emerged as Nulabor's (concealed) "vision" when elected. It serves 'itself and it's own' – not the nation.
It does so by threat, menace and bullying …..

]]> By: Sam Chapman http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8654 Sam Chapman Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:34:51 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8654 By this time next week I hope that Damian Green will not be a Conservative frontbencher, and that hands will have laid hold of him once again, but this time let it be the hands of his fellow MPs, helping him on his way into a recently-vacated Speaker's chair. What better way for Parliament to reassert itself against the trespass of the police and the less virtuous tendencies of the present Executive than through the election of Speaker Green? By this time next week I hope that Damian Green will not be a Conservative frontbencher, and that hands will have laid hold of him once again, but this time let it be the hands of his fellow MPs, helping him on his way into a recently-vacated Speaker's chair.

What better way for Parliament to reassert itself against the trespass of the police and the less virtuous tendencies of the present Executive than through the election of Speaker Green?

]]> By: Adrian Peirson http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8653 Adrian Peirson Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:25:28 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8653 what is worrying is not that they have done this but why they think they can, are they expecting to remain in power indefinately. I'm thinking civil continegncies bill brought in with yet another false flag terror attack, and before I am dismissed as a conspiracy theorist, Three German intelligence operatives have just been arrested in Kosovo for terror offences aimed at attacking an EU building, the EU wanted control of policing and Kosovo and Russia said no. So here we have EU Member states carrying out (...) attacks against its own member statets in order to bring them 'in line'. (words left out) Then of course there is the concentration camp photo that fooled the world. No upon reflection, this stunt does not surprise me at all, it merely confirms what I know about Westminster and the current Government. <a href="http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0,,12215_cid_3827603,00.html?maca=en-en_nr-1893-xml-atom" rel="nofollow">http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0,,12215_cid_3...</a> <a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=kosovo+bnd+eu&btnG=Search&meta=" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=kosovo...</a> what is worrying is not that they have done this but why they think they can, are they expecting to remain in power indefinately.
I'm thinking civil continegncies bill brought in with yet another false flag terror attack, and before I am dismissed as a conspiracy theorist, Three German intelligence operatives have just been arrested in Kosovo for terror offences aimed at attacking an EU building, the EU wanted control of policing and Kosovo and Russia said no.
So here we have EU Member states carrying out (…) attacks against its own member statets in order to bring them 'in line'.
(words left out)
Then of course there is the concentration camp photo that fooled the world.
No upon reflection, this stunt does not surprise me at all, it merely confirms what I know about Westminster and the current Government.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0,,12215_cid_3…
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=kosovo…

]]> By: Neil Craig http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8652 Neil Craig Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:49:14 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8652 Beyond even the disgraceful fact of his arrest, which should lead to the sacking of any policeman, CPS member or Ministerial Secretary who decided to do it without informing ministers (or minister who knew) is the behaviour of the Speaker. No only was Green arrested but his offices, under Parliamentary authority, were searched & computers & documents removed. This is a blatant disregard of parliamentary privilege & should not have been premitted for anything short of a serious risk to national security. Charles I started a war by exercising police powers in Parliament. This may be merely a constitutional point but it is an important constitutional point & the Speaker should certainly not have allowed it either on such a trivial point or without seeking the approval of Parliamentary leaders. I believe this is a resigning matter. Beyond even the disgraceful fact of his arrest, which should lead to the sacking of any policeman, CPS member or Ministerial Secretary who decided to do it without informing ministers (or minister who knew) is the behaviour of the Speaker.

No only was Green arrested but his offices, under Parliamentary authority, were searched & computers & documents removed. This is a blatant disregard of parliamentary privilege & should not have been premitted for anything short of a serious risk to national security. Charles I started a war by exercising police powers in Parliament.

This may be merely a constitutional point but it is an important constitutional point & the Speaker should certainly not have allowed it either on such a trivial point or without seeking the approval of Parliamentary leaders. I believe this is a resigning matter.

]]> By: a-tracy http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8651 a-tracy Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:18:50 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8651 What does it say about the Home Secretary's authority over our police force if they don't feel they have to tell her when they decide to storm an MP's home with nine arresting officers. Was she on holiday? What were the police told was inside Damian Green's home that it needed nine of them to take him in for questioning? Damian Green is a very thoughtful and thorough MP, perhaps he's just too good at his job. This leaker didn't go straight to the press, I feel they went to the right person. This government positively encourage whistleblowing with new laws to protect people so when it backfires on them why is it wrong? Tony Benn was great on C4 news last night at least there are some with true integrity willing to speak out. What does it say about the Home Secretary's authority over our police force if they don't feel they have to tell her when they decide to storm an MP's home with nine arresting officers. Was she on holiday?

What were the police told was inside Damian Green's home that it needed nine of them to take him in for questioning?

Damian Green is a very thoughtful and thorough MP, perhaps he's just too good at his job. This leaker didn't go straight to the press, I feel they went to the right person. This government positively encourage whistleblowing with new laws to protect people so when it backfires on them why is it wrong? Tony Benn was great on C4 news last night at least there are some with true integrity willing to speak out.

]]> By: PaulF http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8650 PaulF Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:33:35 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8650 Smith and Brown have stated that they "had no prior knowledge" of the arrest. Typical new labour non-denial denial. Taken literally, no-one can have "prior knowledge" of an actual event unless thay can travel through time. This statement is factually correct even if they knew damned well that this was going to happen. Smith and Brown have stated that they "had no prior knowledge" of the arrest. Typical new labour non-denial denial. Taken literally, no-one can have "prior knowledge" of an actual event unless thay can travel through time.

This statement is factually correct even if they knew damned well that this was going to happen.

]]> By: mikestallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8649 mikestallard Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:24:02 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8649 If I were Jacqui Smith or Mr Brown on TV, I should have been horrified at this arrest and sack of an MPs office and I should have offered to put it right immediately with a huge box of chocolates and a public apology including a friendly handshake and perhaps (in the case of the Home Secretary, a little peck on the cheek. Instead we get an iron faced denial which, of course, we all believe, do we not. Watergate was, actually, less than this outrage. If I were Jacqui Smith or Mr Brown on TV, I should have been horrified at this arrest and sack of an MPs office and I should have offered to put it right immediately with a huge box of chocolates and a public apology including a friendly handshake and perhaps (in the case of the Home Secretary, a little peck on the cheek.
Instead we get an iron faced denial which, of course, we all believe, do we not.
Watergate was, actually, less than this outrage.

]]> By: Bernard Johns http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8648 Bernard Johns Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:14:48 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8648 Very simply, The Brown Regime, will implement whatever Directive that it receives from Brussels. The question that I want an answer to is:- Will an incoming Tory Government carry on in the same manner? Will we be voting for "more of the same medicine" but with a "clean" spoon? ReplyNo, we intend to get powers back. Remember we voted against Nice, Amsterdam and the Constitutional Treaty Very simply, The Brown Regime, will implement whatever Directive that it receives from Brussels.
The question that I want an answer to is:- Will an incoming Tory
Government carry on in the same manner?
Will we be voting for "more of the same medicine" but with a "clean" spoon?

ReplyNo, we intend to get powers back. Remember we voted against Nice, Amsterdam and the Constitutional Treaty

]]> By: StevenL http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/11/28/three-cheers-for-damian-green/#comment-8647 StevenL Sat, 29 Nov 2008 00:59:06 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2238#comment-8647 I think the civil servant was in the wrong (should the allegations be true of course) unless the Home Office were hiding these document from Freedom of Information Act requests. That said however, this arrest was disgusting. Even if the police had evidence to lead them to suspect Mr Green had broken the law, the public interest test in the Code of Practice for Crown Prosecutors should have deterred them from investigating. If they had evidence to charge the civil servant then they should have done so. If they needed to talk to Mr Green as a potential witness they should have done so in private. If they needed to call Mr Green as a witness to any criminal procedings they could have done so and the truth would have come out in court. They went in on a quiet news day too, when India was rocked by terrorist attacks and the 24 hour news was looking elsewhere. A coincidence? I think the civil servant was in the wrong (should the allegations be true of course) unless the Home Office were hiding these document from Freedom of Information Act requests.

That said however, this arrest was disgusting. Even if the police had evidence to lead them to suspect Mr Green had broken the law, the public interest test in the Code of Practice for Crown Prosecutors should have deterred them from investigating.

If they had evidence to charge the civil servant then they should have done so. If they needed to talk to Mr Green as a potential witness they should have done so in private. If they needed to call Mr Green as a witness to any criminal procedings they could have done so and the truth would have come out in court.

They went in on a quiet news day too, when India was rocked by terrorist attacks and the 24 hour news was looking elsewhere. A coincidence?

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