Comments on: Freedom has to be fought for- the relevance of the US revolution to today. http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Thu, 24 May 2012 13:47:51 +0000 hourly 1 By: Steve Whitfield http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9276 Steve Whitfield Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:24:05 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9276 Shout this from the rooftops, our personal freedon and liberty is at stake here. This ever encroaching big brother approach to our lifestyle will not stop unless lots of us shout loud. Shout this from the rooftops, our personal freedon and liberty is at stake here. This ever encroaching big brother approach to our lifestyle will not stop unless lots of us shout loud.

]]> By: Tim Bull http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9275 Tim Bull Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:25:55 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9275 (JR)Reply: "I do take a principled stand for liberty, as do many of my colleagues in the Conservative party. After all, David Davis resigned and fought a by election over one of the big issues. The Leader of the party agrees with us that freedom has been damaged and some repeals will be necessary, starting with ID cards." You do take a stand for liberty, yes ... but The action of David Davis was personal and not supported by the party. "... some repeals will be necessary, starting with ID cards." is hardly a strong position to take on the issue. Freedom is at the heart of what it means to be British and you underestimate its importance at your peril. The Conservative Party is not yet in step with the majority and should not assume that a poll lead will translate into a majority vote, unless DC and others make clear and unambiguous commitments to repeal or amend all such oppressive legislation. (JR)Reply: “I do take a principled stand for liberty, as do many of my colleagues in the Conservative party. After all, David Davis resigned and fought a by election over one of the big issues. The Leader of the party agrees with us that freedom has been damaged and some repeals will be necessary, starting with ID cards.”

You do take a stand for liberty, yes … but
The action of David Davis was personal and not supported by the party.
“… some repeals will be necessary, starting with ID cards.” is hardly a strong position to take on the issue.
Freedom is at the heart of what it means to be British and you underestimate its importance at your peril.
The Conservative Party is not yet in step with the majority and should not assume that a poll lead will translate into a majority vote, unless DC and others make clear and unambiguous commitments to repeal or amend all such oppressive legislation.

]]> By: Sava Zxivanovich http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9274 Sava Zxivanovich Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:17:34 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9274 Empower the family again. That is a good start. Empower the family again.

That is a good start.

]]> By: Francis http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9273 Francis Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:33:02 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9273 I agree with the rest but I'm not convinced by the idea of the American revolution as simply good against evil; sounds like Yankee propaganda. I agree with the rest but I’m not convinced by the idea of the American revolution as simply good against evil; sounds like Yankee propaganda.

]]> By: mikestallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9272 mikestallard Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:12:57 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9272 You have written a frank and sincere appeal at the very deepest level and I want to answer in kind. Why bother? There are lots and lots of reasons why we should override Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights and disregard the American Constitution: 1. They are out of date now. 2. We are not American but European, willy nilly. 3. Upon what basis should these three statements be accepted? What makes them right? In the days when they were laid down, Britain/USA were Protestant/Christian countries which saw man as created in God's image. Therefore all men were equally precious in God's sight. The King was just another human under God. The Law, as instituted by man under God, overruled even the King's Majesty. Does that still hold in 2008? Lots and lots of people would laugh out loud at the very suggestion. I am not one of those people, because I am a Christian. But there are not many of us left, you know...... You have written a frank and sincere appeal at the very deepest level and I want to answer in kind.
Why bother?
There are lots and lots of reasons why we should override Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights and disregard the American Constitution: 1. They are out of date now. 2. We are not American but European, willy nilly. 3. Upon what basis should these three statements be accepted? What makes them right?
In the days when they were laid down, Britain/USA were Protestant/Christian countries which saw man as created in God’s image. Therefore all men were equally precious in God’s sight. The King was just another human under God. The Law, as instituted by man under God, overruled even the King’s Majesty.
Does that still hold in 2008?
Lots and lots of people would laugh out loud at the very suggestion. I am not one of those people, because I am a Christian. But there are not many of us left, you know……

]]> By: Derek W. Buxton http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9271 Derek W. Buxton Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:32:12 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9271 Sir, Another excellent article, under the banner of the restoration of our hard won freedoms I could again vote for the Conservative Party. Whilst I believe in you, I cannot accept that the Party as a unit will agree with your analysis or accept your conclusion. I also think that the increasing raft of new laws is deliberate, done by a set of control freaks, certainly led from the top but done by those who should be/are our servants, the "civil service". There should be checks and balances against this but where are they? Parliament is irrelevant and our Judges politicised, not forgetting the EU who causes many of these things but allows the blame to fall on the local government. And this is where the stupidity of our government shows in it's full glory,.... they keep quiet about it. Unfortunately so do the opposition and the media. "Don't rock the boat" they all cry, problem is, said boat is sinking, fast! On this, it is a sad comment that just two days after an EU spokesman said that metrication wasn't intended to penalise our traders, a London local authority did exactly that. Why,... because our parliament made that the law in this country, meanwhile the French still use livres for their purchases. Derek Buxton reply: I am pleased to remind you the whole Conservative Opposition spoke and voted against many of the infringements of our liberty like ID cards, no EU referendum, 42 days detention without trial etc. Sir,
Another excellent article, under the banner of the restoration of our hard won freedoms I could again vote for the Conservative Party. Whilst I believe in you, I cannot accept that the Party as a unit will agree with your analysis or accept your conclusion.

I also think that the increasing raft of new laws is deliberate, done by a set of control freaks, certainly led from the top but done by those who should be/are our servants, the “civil service”. There should be checks and balances against this but where are they? Parliament is irrelevant and our Judges politicised, not forgetting the EU who causes many of these things but allows the blame to fall on the local government. And this is where the stupidity of our government shows in it’s full glory,…. they keep quiet about it. Unfortunately so do the opposition and the media. “Don’t rock the boat” they all cry, problem is, said boat is sinking, fast!

On this, it is a sad comment that just two days after an EU spokesman said that metrication wasn’t intended to penalise our traders, a London local authority did exactly that. Why,… because our parliament made that the law in this country, meanwhile the French still use livres for their purchases.

Derek Buxton

reply: I am pleased to remind you the whole Conservative Opposition spoke and voted against many of the infringements of our liberty like ID cards, no EU referendum, 42 days detention without trial etc.

]]> By: Alfred T Mahan http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9270 Alfred T Mahan Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:22:48 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9270 John, you give the game away with the phrase 'in recent weeks'. Recently the way to go has been obvious to a blind man in a kayak in mid-Atlantic, and this has been reflected in opinion poll movement. Agreeing with the majority of commentators proves nothing. So I don't yet see the Damascene conversion of Messrs Cameron and Osborne as proving that they understand in their heart of hearts what is required. They've been trimmers up to now - why aren't they trimmers still? Reducing our bloated, inefficient government will require quite exceptional willpower to take on the numerous vested interests that will oppose it. Trimmers don't have the necessary depth of commitment to make it happen. It will take more than a few comments 'in recent weeks' to convince me that the current Conservative leadership have the understanding and the determination to see through what's necessary. I say this in sorrow not in anger. John, you give the game away with the phrase ‘in recent weeks’. Recently the way to go has been obvious to a blind man in a kayak in mid-Atlantic, and this has been reflected in opinion poll movement. Agreeing with the majority of commentators proves nothing. So I don’t yet see the Damascene conversion of Messrs Cameron and Osborne as proving that they understand in their heart of hearts what is required. They’ve been trimmers up to now – why aren’t they trimmers still?

Reducing our bloated, inefficient government will require quite exceptional willpower to take on the numerous vested interests that will oppose it. Trimmers don’t have the necessary depth of commitment to make it happen. It will take more than a few comments ‘in recent weeks’ to convince me that the current Conservative leadership have the understanding and the determination to see through what’s necessary.

I say this in sorrow not in anger.

]]> By: Andrew Withers http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9269 Andrew Withers Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:04:00 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9269 I respect your point of view about personally wanting to remain within the Conservative Party, for me Libertarianism is a philosophy of freedom and personal responsibility. Whilst the Conservative Party, first tries to match Labour spending, then tries and dispenses with Green policies in a desperate need to curry favour with an electorate that is hooked on ever greater State intervention, my Libertarianism has no home in the Conservative Party. The bulk of our members are under thirty, the Conservative Party is ageing. So I have a confidence in the future, and the eventual refusal to render unto Caesar, when Caesar is being too damn greedy. None of this however would stop me supporting you personally if you made Liberty and a written Constitution your reason for sitting in Parliament ! I respect your point of view about personally wanting to remain within the Conservative Party, for me Libertarianism is a philosophy of freedom and personal responsibility.

Whilst the Conservative Party, first tries to match Labour spending, then tries and dispenses with Green policies in a desperate need to curry favour with an electorate that is hooked on ever greater State intervention, my Libertarianism has no home in the Conservative Party.

The bulk of our members are under thirty, the Conservative Party is ageing. So I have a confidence in the future, and the eventual refusal to render unto Caesar, when Caesar is being too damn greedy.

None of this however would stop me supporting you personally if you made Liberty and a written Constitution your reason for sitting in Parliament !

]]> By: Andrew Withers http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9268 Andrew Withers Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:19:01 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9268 It is a good job that John Adams did not take your view, he knew that he could not reform the Monarchy from within, and joined a fringe movement to set America free. The SNP also was once a fringe party in Scotland, it is now the Party of Government in Scotland and the Tories a fringe party. John Adams joined a revolutionary party and took to arms and freedom took twenty years to achieve, the SNP have taken the constitutional route and have taken seventy years. Reflecting the will of the people, not how many powerless MP's that can be elected should be the worth of any party. Labour have revoked freedoms and Liberties in ten years that took centuries to achieve, one of your own MP's had his offices searched and was arrested under anti terrorism legistlation, yet the Conservative party seemed quite muted in its response. I doubt whether Pym, Holles and Hampden would have allowed this to pass in such a manner. What I do agree with you on is the pressing need for a realignment in favour of Liberty, how this is achieved in this moribund political system is another matter. Reply: Adams knew he had the people of Massachusetts behind him when he broke with the Crown. There is no evidence of popular support for fringe parties, even though the issues they raise are important. Be a pressure group if you like - I want to change things, and need to belong to a party which can do that. It is a good job that John Adams did not take your view, he knew that he could not reform the Monarchy from within, and joined a fringe movement to set America free. The SNP also was once a fringe party in Scotland, it is now the Party of Government in Scotland and the Tories a fringe party.

John Adams joined a revolutionary party and took to arms and freedom took twenty years to achieve, the SNP have taken the constitutional route and have taken seventy years.

Reflecting the will of the people, not how many powerless MP’s that can be elected should be the worth of any party.

Labour have revoked freedoms and Liberties in ten years that took centuries to achieve, one of your own MP’s had his offices searched and was arrested under anti terrorism legistlation, yet the Conservative party seemed quite muted in its response. I doubt whether Pym, Holles and Hampden would have allowed this to pass in such a manner.

What I do agree with you on is the pressing need for a realignment in favour of Liberty, how this is achieved in this moribund political system is another matter.

Reply: Adams knew he had the people of Massachusetts behind him when he broke with the Crown. There is no evidence of popular support for fringe parties, even though the issues they raise are important. Be a pressure group if you like – I want to change things, and need to belong to a party which can do that.

]]> By: David Eyles http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/28/freedom-has-to-be-fought-for/#comment-9267 David Eyles Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:17:59 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2485#comment-9267 Now recovering from post-lambing-fatigue, this is the first time I have had time I have had to to read this article properly. Compared to David Cameron's statements on the subject, it is commendably explicit and just what we need from an eminent back-bencher to get the ball rolling a little faster. The only thing I will add is that the foundations for the 1689 Bill of Rights and US independence were laid down in 1215. For those with the time, I have given below two links to articles I wrote in September. The first gives the background to the signing of the Magna Carta and a summary of its contents; the second continues this and then deals with the wider implications for our modern times, many of which are echoed in JR's article above. The links are: http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2008/08/david-eyles-why.html http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2008/09/david-eyles-why.html The re-establishment of liberty and the rule of law are the vital precursors to recovery from our current economic and social malaise. Without these basic concepts re-established, we cannot hope to recover from the mess that this government has got us into. And, yes, I think that it really is time: "..... we need to fashion a new coalition for liberty in our own country." I'm up for it. How many others out there are also interested? Now recovering from post-lambing-fatigue, this is the first time I have had time I have had to to read this article properly. Compared to David Cameron’s statements on the subject, it is commendably explicit and just what we need from an eminent back-bencher to get the ball rolling a little faster. The only thing I will add is that the foundations for the 1689 Bill of Rights and US independence were laid down in 1215. For those with the time, I have given below two links to articles I wrote in September. The first gives the background to the signing of the Magna Carta and a summary of its contents; the second continues this and then deals with the wider implications for our modern times, many of which are echoed in JR’s article above.

The links are: http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2008/08/david-eyles-why.html http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2008/09/david-eyles-why.html

The re-establishment of liberty and the rule of law are the vital precursors to recovery from our current economic and social malaise. Without these basic concepts re-established, we cannot hope to recover from the mess that this government has got us into.

And, yes, I think that it really is time: “….. we need to fashion a new coalition for liberty in our own country.” I’m up for it. How many others out there are also interested?

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