Comments on: Christians, socialists and the culture of blame for the Credit crunch http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:05:58 +0000 hourly 1 By: Gordon Brown a ManicBeancounter? « Manicbeancounter’s Weblog http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12412 Gordon Brown a ManicBeancounter? « Manicbeancounter’s Weblog Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:27:14 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12412 [...] wrote a posting on John Redwood’s blog that is relevant to approach we should be taking, especially when speaking a house of [...] [...] wrote a posting on John Redwood’s blog that is relevant to approach we should be taking, especially when speaking a house of [...]

]]> By: Oli http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12411 Oli Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:47:18 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12411 Morality depends on which words you support and which ones you don't. This crises comes down to a few simple words: Affordable Housing or Sub Prime Mortgage Which words do you think were responsible? Both phrases mean exactly the same - but one is morally right, while the other is morally wrong - to the righteous who rule the airways! The question is, what will be the words which define the next crises? Morality depends on which words you support and which ones you don’t.

This crises comes down to a few simple words:

Affordable Housing or Sub Prime Mortgage

Which words do you think were responsible?

Both phrases mean exactly the same – but one is morally right, while the other is morally wrong – to the righteous who rule the airways!

The question is, what will be the words which define the next crises?

]]> By: mike stallard http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12410 mike stallard Wed, 11 Mar 2009 00:59:19 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12410 Since you posted this, I read on the Vatican blog that the Pope is looking hard at Islamic banking! Apparently it could be the answer. It is, we read, based on real principles...... Since you posted this, I read on the Vatican blog that the Pope is looking hard at Islamic banking! Apparently it could be the answer. It is, we read, based on real principles……

]]> By: Bernard Dugdale http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12409 Bernard Dugdale Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:41:47 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12409 I don't hold much with christianity, but I rather liked Mike Stallard's comments. It could be a good recipe for social cohesion and recovery from recession - be aware that none of us has all of the answers, and spare a thought for those brought low by this crisis, from the bloke next door to Fred Goodwin. And Gordon Brown too? Well, maybe. I don’t hold much with christianity, but I rather liked Mike Stallard’s comments.

It could be a good recipe for social cohesion and recovery from recession – be aware that none of us has all of the answers, and spare a thought for those brought low by this crisis, from the bloke next door to Fred Goodwin. And Gordon Brown too? Well, maybe.

]]> By: ManicBeancounter http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12408 ManicBeancounter Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:57:05 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12408 I quite agree that some of the church leaders have rather shallow and misguided opinions of the current crisis. I believe there are much stronger analogies that can be drawn between the Bible and the current situation. 1. In Matthew 22, after Jesus says that the Greatest commandment is love of God and the second is love of neighbour as oneself, he then says “In these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets”. For the financial system, what is most important is the general objectives of regulation, with the detail following from that. 2. In Jesus’s conflict with authority was because he put love of neighbour before upholding the laws and cultures of the time (such as healing. In other words, where the detailed rules conflict with the major objectives, it is the regulations that must be amended. When it is a choice between maintaining a boom with low interest rates, or suffering a mild recession to avoid a bubble, then it is the mild recession that must be endured. 3. Jesus had strong words for the Scribes and the Pharisees (Matthew 23), the religious leaders of the time, who dogmatically upheld the complex laws and customs. Like the modern day financial regulators, they made sure that everyone ticked all the boxes, but lost sight of the purpose of the exercise. The spin doctors ensured that in was only others perceptions that were important and not substance. 4. In the Old Testament, the importance is stressed of avoiding risk and stewardship of ones property. The authorities lost sight of this - whether Government’s going on a spending spree or Central Banks in keeping interest rates too low. I quite agree that some of the church leaders have rather shallow and misguided opinions of the current crisis. I believe there are much stronger analogies that can be drawn between the Bible and the current situation.
1. In Matthew 22, after Jesus says that the Greatest commandment is love of God and the second is love of neighbour as oneself, he then says “In these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets”. For the financial system, what is most important is the general objectives of regulation, with the detail following from that.
2. In Jesus’s conflict with authority was because he put love of neighbour before upholding the laws and cultures of the time (such as healing. In other words, where the detailed rules conflict with the major objectives, it is the regulations that must be amended. When it is a choice between maintaining a boom with low interest rates, or suffering a mild recession to avoid a bubble, then it is the mild recession that must be endured.
3. Jesus had strong words for the Scribes and the Pharisees (Matthew 23), the religious leaders of the time, who dogmatically upheld the complex laws and customs. Like the modern day financial regulators, they made sure that everyone ticked all the boxes, but lost sight of the purpose of the exercise. The spin doctors ensured that in was only others perceptions that were important and not substance.
4. In the Old Testament, the importance is stressed of avoiding risk and stewardship of ones property. The authorities lost sight of this – whether Government’s going on a spending spree or Central Banks in keeping interest rates too low.

]]> By: THE ESSEX BOYS http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12407 THE ESSEX BOYS Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:38:35 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12407 Key tenets of Christianity are the offer of a helping hand, a willingness to turn the other cheek and the courage to say 'sorry' for past mistakes and unkindnesses when it is justified and it helps. You know what we're leading upto don't you! Probably not many of JR's faithful following get to read The Sun but Trevor Kavanagh's Monday column always lifts the spirits of Brown baiters so here below is his take today on the 'Say Sorry' issue...and remember this stuff is what the ordinary swing voter is more likely to read than much of the comment that appears on the blogs so avidly gobbled up by folks like us! ******************** Flying home from Washington last week, the PM turned on journalists who asked him to apologise for his part in the Great Recession. But once Gordon started saying sorry, where would he stop? Would he apologise for turning Britain into a giant welfare state, with 12million adults dependent on taxpayers, either for their salary or benefit? Is he sorry for opening the door to millions of unchecked migrants now in cut-throat competition for British jobs? Is he sorry for selling off our gold at rock-bottom prices and wrecking private pension savings while bloating the public sector’s. Will he apologise for refusing to build nuclear power stations? Or new prisons to hold those dangerous criminals now roaming free? Does he regret the failure of schools to educate our youngsters properly for the tough times ahead? No. After 12 years in charge, he can’t say sorry. That would be to confess Labour has misspent more than a decade in power. Key tenets of Christianity are the offer of a helping hand, a willingness to turn the other cheek and the courage to say ‘sorry’ for past mistakes and unkindnesses when it is justified and it helps.
You know what we’re leading upto don’t you!

Probably not many of JR’s faithful following get to read The Sun but Trevor Kavanagh’s Monday column always lifts the spirits of Brown baiters so here below is his take today on the ‘Say Sorry’ issue…and remember this stuff is what the ordinary swing voter is more likely to read than much of the comment that appears on the blogs so avidly gobbled up by folks like us!

********************

Flying home from Washington last week, the PM turned on journalists who asked him to apologise for his part in the Great Recession. But once Gordon started saying sorry, where would he stop? Would he apologise for turning Britain into a giant welfare state, with 12million adults dependent on taxpayers, either for their salary or benefit?

Is he sorry for opening the door to millions of unchecked migrants now in cut-throat competition for British jobs?

Is he sorry for selling off our gold at rock-bottom prices and wrecking private pension savings while bloating the public sector’s.

Will he apologise for refusing to build nuclear power stations? Or new prisons to hold those dangerous criminals now roaming free?

Does he regret the failure of schools to educate our youngsters properly for the tough times ahead?

No. After 12 years in charge, he can’t say sorry.

That would be to confess Labour has misspent more than a decade in power.

]]> By: skooch http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12406 skooch Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:29:05 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12406 I'm not so sure. I borrowed quite a lot of money c.2004, in addition to the borrowing I had on my first house, to fund the purchase of a house in Italy. We now have 2 houses; both extraordinarily beautiful and in equally idyllic surroundings, which I hope will cushion them from the worst of the property downturn. Yeah, well. Apart from the fact that I can remember saying, quite distinctly, to the lovely joe from the bank 'But are you not concerned about our future ability to pay? What happens if interest rates go back to 15%?' - his reply was what I wanted to hear. I took his money, for heaven's sake. Mea culpa. I’m not so sure.

I borrowed quite a lot of money c.2004, in addition to the borrowing I had on my first house, to fund the purchase of a house in Italy. We now have 2 houses; both extraordinarily beautiful and in equally idyllic surroundings, which I hope will cushion them from the worst of the property downturn. Yeah, well.

Apart from the fact that I can remember saying, quite distinctly, to the lovely joe from the bank ‘But are you not concerned about our future ability to pay? What happens if interest rates go back to 15%?’ – his reply was what I wanted to hear.

I took his money, for heaven’s sake. Mea culpa.

]]> By: Alan Wheatley http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12405 Alan Wheatley Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:20:03 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12405 Consideration of who might be to blame seems to have ignored the credit rating agencies. Are not these the people who were still giving the Icelandic banks a top rating only days before their collapse? Should not these people have been identifying the weakness of British banks' credit worthiness long ago? Is not risk inversely proportional to credit rating? If so, and the rating is correct, institutions seeking higher gains from higher risk investments would have their credit rating reduced, and this would provide a compensating mechanism without the need for government or a regulator to "tell" institutions what to do - the market would decide what was acceptable. Consideration of who might be to blame seems to have ignored the credit rating agencies. Are not these the people who were still giving the Icelandic banks a top rating only days before their collapse?

Should not these people have been identifying the weakness of British banks’ credit worthiness long ago?

Is not risk inversely proportional to credit rating? If so, and the rating is correct, institutions seeking higher gains from higher risk investments would have their credit rating reduced, and this would provide a compensating mechanism without the need for government or a regulator to “tell” institutions what to do – the market would decide what was acceptable.

]]> By: Gary McCullough http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12404 Gary McCullough Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:58:08 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12404 Dear Sir, It just shows how un-Biblical the thinking of modern Christians in Britain is. The Bible advocates charity and a totally free market, not Socialism. Socialism hates Christianity. G. McCullough Dear Sir,

It just shows how un-Biblical the thinking of modern Christians in Britain is. The Bible advocates charity and a totally free market, not Socialism. Socialism hates Christianity.

G. McCullough

]]> By: APL http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/03/09/christians-socialists-and-the-culture-of-blame-for-the-credit-crunch/#comment-12403 APL Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:31:22 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3075#comment-12403 Mandleson being interviewed by Andrew Marr on Sunday 8th March. Marr: ".. Geroge Osborne says 'we weren't on the ball, nobody was on the ball' .." Marr: " .. Actually .." Mandleson: " .. Well, it's rich coming from the Conservatives who opposed the very regulatory system that we put in place, err, err, err, over those years, lets not take any lessons from the conservatives ..." Now, my immediate thought when I heard that was; Ah yes, the Tories opposed the very regulatory system that has so comprehensively failed. Perhaps, Mandleson, if you weren't so preoccupied with saving Brown's neck and by association your own, you might be open to the possibility of actually learning something other than how to slither. Marr, being a BBC Labourite droid, ignored the point. Mandleson being interviewed by Andrew Marr on Sunday 8th March.

Marr: “.. Geroge Osborne says ‘we weren’t on the ball, nobody was on the ball’ ..”

Marr: ” .. Actually ..”

Mandleson: ” .. Well, it’s rich coming from the Conservatives who opposed the very regulatory system that we put in place, err, err, err, over those years, lets not take any lessons from the conservatives …”

Now, my immediate thought when I heard that was; Ah yes, the Tories opposed the very regulatory system that has so comprehensively failed.

Perhaps, Mandleson, if you weren’t so preoccupied with saving Brown’s neck and by association your own, you might be open to the possibility of actually learning something other than how to slither.

Marr, being a BBC Labourite droid, ignored the point.

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