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	<title>Comments on: Pensions apartheid</title>
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	<description>Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today&#039;s issues and tomorrow&#039;s problems</description>
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		<title>By: Charles Noon</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14271</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Noon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14271</guid>
		<description>[Sorry! not finished] I suggest
        1. Index-linking only apply to the first £25000 of pension. Any pension above £25k not to be &#039;linked&#039;

        2. No index linked pension to be paid to anyone until they reach the age of sixty [or 65?] unless they are deemed medically unfit for work by a doctor chosen by the pensions authority.

        3. The maximum pension to be paid to public sector workers to be fixed at say £40k.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Sorry! not finished] I suggest<br />
        1. Index-linking only apply to the first £25000 of pension. Any pension above £25k not to be &#8216;linked&#8217;</p>
<p>        2. No index linked pension to be paid to anyone until they reach the age of sixty [or 65?] unless they are deemed medically unfit for work by a doctor chosen by the pensions authority.</p>
<p>        3. The maximum pension to be paid to public sector workers to be fixed at say £40k.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Noon</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14270</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Noon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14270</guid>
		<description>As a teacher with an index-linked pension I am aware of growing public hostility to the &#039;us and them&#039; element of pensions. I have also been a District Councillor for 30+ years and been infuriated at the way Senior Officers have been given increased years and encouraged to take early retirement. Indexed Linked pensions as they now stand cannot be afforded and many Councils are being cripled by the provisions they have to make to meet Pension bills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a teacher with an index-linked pension I am aware of growing public hostility to the &#8216;us and them&#8217; element of pensions. I have also been a District Councillor for 30+ years and been infuriated at the way Senior Officers have been given increased years and encouraged to take early retirement. Indexed Linked pensions as they now stand cannot be afforded and many Councils are being cripled by the provisions they have to make to meet Pension bills.</p>
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		<title>By: a-tracy</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14269</link>
		<dc:creator>a-tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14269</guid>
		<description>I looked up NHS superannuation websites this evening as it seemed extreme for a GP to contribute 24% and it seems the GP pays 6% of their wage towards their pension.  The website says &quot;the scheme&#039;s benefits are substantial&quot; and &quot;payments are relatively cheap&quot;.  See http://www.bradfordvts.co.uk/ONLINERESOURCES/26.%20NHS%20STRUCTURE%20AND%20POLITICS%20(added)/NHS%20pension%20scheme.doc

When you say you&#039;d leave the NHS after being trained in the UK does the State not require a certain number of years NHS time to be worked in the UK?  If not this is a great deal for Australia and the Gulf, it&#039;s no wonder they can pay higher salaries if they don&#039;t have to train their staff.  I wonder how many qualified doctors still work in the NHS five years after the end of their UK based training?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked up NHS superannuation websites this evening as it seemed extreme for a GP to contribute 24% and it seems the GP pays 6% of their wage towards their pension.  The website says &#8220;the scheme&#8217;s benefits are substantial&#8221; and &#8220;payments are relatively cheap&#8221;.  See <a href="http://www.bradfordvts.co.uk/ONLINERESOURCES/26.%20NHS%20STRUCTURE%20AND%20POLITICS%20(added)/NHS%20pension%20scheme.doc" rel="nofollow">http://www.bradfordvts.co.uk/ONLINERESOURCES/26.%20NHS%20STRUCTURE%20AND%20POLITICS%20(added)/NHS%20pension%20scheme.doc</a></p>
<p>When you say you&#8217;d leave the NHS after being trained in the UK does the State not require a certain number of years NHS time to be worked in the UK?  If not this is a great deal for Australia and the Gulf, it&#8217;s no wonder they can pay higher salaries if they don&#8217;t have to train their staff.  I wonder how many qualified doctors still work in the NHS five years after the end of their UK based training?</p>
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		<title>By: Fox in sox</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14268</link>
		<dc:creator>Fox in sox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14268</guid>
		<description>I refer to nhs superannuation at 24% of salary, this is as well as NI.  This entitles to 1/80 of final salary for each year of service. NHS final salary pensions are one of the few reasons to work in the NHS, without them I would leave for the private sector or abroad. With the dumbing down of medical training via MTAS and the EWTD decent doctors are going to be hard to find in the UK in the future. If decent pensions go then so dies the motivation to work in the NHS. Australia or the Gulf beckons, Market forces you see...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I refer to nhs superannuation at 24% of salary, this is as well as NI.  This entitles to 1/80 of final salary for each year of service. NHS final salary pensions are one of the few reasons to work in the NHS, without them I would leave for the private sector or abroad. With the dumbing down of medical training via MTAS and the EWTD decent doctors are going to be hard to find in the UK in the future. If decent pensions go then so dies the motivation to work in the NHS. Australia or the Gulf beckons, Market forces you see&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David Burch</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14267</link>
		<dc:creator>David Burch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14267</guid>
		<description>I had just sat through a meeting with one of my companies pension advisors and although we have a stakeholder option this was there on paper and ignored in practice in favour of existing Group Personal Pensions. Our advisors stated that it can take up to twelve years for an IFA to return a profit on the sale of a stakeholder pension and that was one of the main reasons that it had not been a success. In reality whilst my company has an stakeholder scheme it is useless alongside the GPP. We then had a muted laugh over the 2012 pension changes that look just as half baked and that if we were the Labour Party it could be ignored until after the next election when they are probably unlikely to be in power.

I personally think everyone should have a pension but also the choice not to have one. I do have one and have paid in for the past twenty years with a mixture of final salary and money purchase. People if they do save for a pension will have to save more and that is a fact. The Government will have to come clean on it plans for the future of the state pension and must tackle the pension aparthied between the private and public sector which is probably a balck hole of banking crisis size.

No one will end up happy in my view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had just sat through a meeting with one of my companies pension advisors and although we have a stakeholder option this was there on paper and ignored in practice in favour of existing Group Personal Pensions. Our advisors stated that it can take up to twelve years for an IFA to return a profit on the sale of a stakeholder pension and that was one of the main reasons that it had not been a success. In reality whilst my company has an stakeholder scheme it is useless alongside the GPP. We then had a muted laugh over the 2012 pension changes that look just as half baked and that if we were the Labour Party it could be ignored until after the next election when they are probably unlikely to be in power.</p>
<p>I personally think everyone should have a pension but also the choice not to have one. I do have one and have paid in for the past twenty years with a mixture of final salary and money purchase. People if they do save for a pension will have to save more and that is a fact. The Government will have to come clean on it plans for the future of the state pension and must tackle the pension aparthied between the private and public sector which is probably a balck hole of banking crisis size.</p>
<p>No one will end up happy in my view.</p>
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		<title>By: a-tracy</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14266</link>
		<dc:creator>a-tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14266</guid>
		<description>When you say GPs contribute 24% of their salary, is this in addition to the 11% and 12.8% (23.8%) that those of us in private employment pay over the lower earnings level (lel) or is this simply their employee and employer national insurance contribution as private contractors to the state?  Do they pay this 24% on every pound or the earnings over the lel, and does this amount stop at the higher earnings level or do they pay it on very pound they earn?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you say GPs contribute 24% of their salary, is this in addition to the 11% and 12.8% (23.8%) that those of us in private employment pay over the lower earnings level (lel) or is this simply their employee and employer national insurance contribution as private contractors to the state?  Do they pay this 24% on every pound or the earnings over the lel, and does this amount stop at the higher earnings level or do they pay it on very pound they earn?</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Jones</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14265</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14265</guid>
		<description>What % of your final salary will you get as a pension? Those of us who put in a similar amount into a defined contribution scheme just watch as our funds go down and our taxes go up to pay for the public sector pensions

Everyone should be on defined contribution, then we all sink together.

Reality is we cannot have an open economy and a welfare state. Not going to work.

Reply: That depends on how many years I work as an MP, as it is a contributory scheme. I support closing the MP scheme to new members and going over to a defined contribution basis. I agree that public sector pension costs need to be controlled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What % of your final salary will you get as a pension? Those of us who put in a similar amount into a defined contribution scheme just watch as our funds go down and our taxes go up to pay for the public sector pensions</p>
<p>Everyone should be on defined contribution, then we all sink together.</p>
<p>Reality is we cannot have an open economy and a welfare state. Not going to work.</p>
<p>Reply: That depends on how many years I work as an MP, as it is a contributory scheme. I support closing the MP scheme to new members and going over to a defined contribution basis. I agree that public sector pension costs need to be controlled.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14264</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14264</guid>
		<description>I know this is about the public sector but...
Are company pension funds still &quot;plunderable&quot; by the companies that supposedly supply them? i.e are we still open to another Maxwell? If so why would anyone put a penny in pension scheme?
Julian

Reply: Pension funds are heavily regulated to try to stop theft and inadequate contribution levels. There is also a compensation fund.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is about the public sector but&#8230;<br />
Are company pension funds still &#8220;plunderable&#8221; by the companies that supposedly supply them? i.e are we still open to another Maxwell? If so why would anyone put a penny in pension scheme?<br />
Julian</p>
<p>Reply: Pension funds are heavily regulated to try to stop theft and inadequate contribution levels. There is also a compensation fund.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14263</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14263</guid>
		<description>The retirement age ought to rise in stages to 68 for people in both public &amp; private sectors with state sector employees having to contribute to their pensions like private sector workers rather than just draining the public purse. Cutting the public sector wage bill by 10% over say three years would save £15 billion now and by firing the jobsworths hired by Brown to vote Labour in marginal seats you save money on public sector pensions long term.

By axing the pensions regulator tax , ending the £5 billion p/a pension fund raid , repealing stamp duty on shares , axing basic rate tax on share dividends and repealing CGT with gains taxed as income for the first two years &amp; then tax free after that you would boost share prices and thus help pension pots improve.

The MPC inflation target should be 2% on the more accurate RPI-x measure so that people on pensions do not suffer excess price rises. Banks should have to hoard more capital in good times to fund sustaining credit levels during a recession while ensuring no need for dividend reductions and thus helping pension funds.

A Citizenship Pension set at a flat rate for the over 68&#039;s could be brought in to end pensioner poverty and would boost saving. With an end to means-testing you could encourage pension saving &amp; wealth creation which would add more to pension funds due to share prices being boosted and more cash being saved for peoples retirement.

It is unfair that prudent people who have cash in the bank , a dividend income &amp; a private pension should be subject to double taxation by paying tax on that income. They have paid for those things out of taxed income and by providing for their old age in that way they are reducing the burden on the state. Ending basic rate tax on income from pensions , savings &amp; dividends/shares can only help the pensions situation.

Oh &amp; by the way lets end the scandal of  excess MP&#039;s pensions. That might give the House of Commons the moral right to legislate on pensions if MP&#039;s renounce this unwarranted perk.

Private pension regulation needs reform so that it is less cumbersome &amp; smarter so that funds are protecting without red tape stifling the sector. There must be a middle way that works better than Labour&#039;s over-regulation.

These reforms might well address the issues that John Redwood raised in his excellent blog. Pensions policy must be at the heart of David Cameron&#039;s first term as PM with a new settlement aimed at making things fairer ( i.e. less feather-bedding for the Client State &amp; MP&#039;s and more help for the suffering private sector worker).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The retirement age ought to rise in stages to 68 for people in both public &amp; private sectors with state sector employees having to contribute to their pensions like private sector workers rather than just draining the public purse. Cutting the public sector wage bill by 10% over say three years would save £15 billion now and by firing the jobsworths hired by Brown to vote Labour in marginal seats you save money on public sector pensions long term.</p>
<p>By axing the pensions regulator tax , ending the £5 billion p/a pension fund raid , repealing stamp duty on shares , axing basic rate tax on share dividends and repealing CGT with gains taxed as income for the first two years &amp; then tax free after that you would boost share prices and thus help pension pots improve.</p>
<p>The MPC inflation target should be 2% on the more accurate RPI-x measure so that people on pensions do not suffer excess price rises. Banks should have to hoard more capital in good times to fund sustaining credit levels during a recession while ensuring no need for dividend reductions and thus helping pension funds.</p>
<p>A Citizenship Pension set at a flat rate for the over 68&#8242;s could be brought in to end pensioner poverty and would boost saving. With an end to means-testing you could encourage pension saving &amp; wealth creation which would add more to pension funds due to share prices being boosted and more cash being saved for peoples retirement.</p>
<p>It is unfair that prudent people who have cash in the bank , a dividend income &amp; a private pension should be subject to double taxation by paying tax on that income. They have paid for those things out of taxed income and by providing for their old age in that way they are reducing the burden on the state. Ending basic rate tax on income from pensions , savings &amp; dividends/shares can only help the pensions situation.</p>
<p>Oh &amp; by the way lets end the scandal of  excess MP&#8217;s pensions. That might give the House of Commons the moral right to legislate on pensions if MP&#8217;s renounce this unwarranted perk.</p>
<p>Private pension regulation needs reform so that it is less cumbersome &amp; smarter so that funds are protecting without red tape stifling the sector. There must be a middle way that works better than Labour&#8217;s over-regulation.</p>
<p>These reforms might well address the issues that John Redwood raised in his excellent blog. Pensions policy must be at the heart of David Cameron&#8217;s first term as PM with a new settlement aimed at making things fairer ( i.e. less feather-bedding for the Client State &amp; MP&#8217;s and more help for the suffering private sector worker).</p>
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		<title>By: alan jutson</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/15/pensions-apartheid/#comment-14262</link>
		<dc:creator>alan jutson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3393#comment-14262</guid>
		<description>Fox in a Sox
Yes you probably have put a lot of your salary into your pension but so have the Taxpayers as well.
Is it not correct that NHS staff have a sum equivelent to 14% of their wages put into their pension by the NHS (Taxpayer) as well.
Self employed people have to contribute 100% of their own money (out of their own income) no one puts in any extra save for a tax allowance which everyone gets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fox in a Sox<br />
Yes you probably have put a lot of your salary into your pension but so have the Taxpayers as well.<br />
Is it not correct that NHS staff have a sum equivelent to 14% of their wages put into their pension by the NHS (Taxpayer) as well.<br />
Self employed people have to contribute 100% of their own money (out of their own income) no one puts in any extra save for a tax allowance which everyone gets.</p>
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