Comments on: Two U turns and a listening Minister http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:05:58 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ross http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15165 Ross Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:47:28 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15165 Admiral Lord West gave a keynote speech yesterday at a conference at RUSI on critical national infrastructure. He said, rightly, that since most of our critical instastructure (electricity, telecomms, water etc) is operated by private companies, government must work in partnership with private industry to defend the realm, and not impose unnecessary regulatory burdens. At the end of his speech he was congratulated on this and asked why then the government was proposing the interception modernisation programme whereby phone companies and ISPs would have to spy on their customers. He claimed that they would get some of their costs paid. So some costs won't be paid. We'll be spied on and the costs added to our phone bills, just as the cost of ID cards will be extracted by charging us all £200 for every new passport. Admiral Lord West gave a keynote speech yesterday at a conference at RUSI on critical national infrastructure. He said, rightly, that since most of our critical instastructure (electricity, telecomms, water etc) is operated by private companies, government must work in partnership with private industry to defend the realm, and not impose unnecessary regulatory burdens.

At the end of his speech he was congratulated on this and asked
why then the government was proposing the interception modernisation programme whereby phone companies and ISPs would have to spy on their customers. He claimed that they would get some of their costs paid. So some costs won’t be paid. We’ll be spied on and the costs added to our phone bills, just as the cost of ID cards will be extracted by charging us all £200 for every new passport.

]]> By: John Moss http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15164 John Moss Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:06:33 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15164 Alan, could you contact me? I had an input to the Green paper and it is something I think we need to keep working on mail@johnjcmoss.com Alan, could you contact me? I had an input to the Green paper and it is something I think we need to keep working on

mail@johnjcmoss.com

]]> By: alan jutson http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15163 alan jutson Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:19:48 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15163 Molesworth Not quite sure of the point you are making. As I understand it 3 Titan type (very large) Prisons are now not going to be built, but 5 smaller prisons will be The 5 smaller prisons probably have a similar number of cells combined, as the 3 Titan type prisons. The cell count will in total, will therefore be similar but over more sites. Molesworth
Not quite sure of the point you are making.
As I understand it 3 Titan type (very large) Prisons are now not going to be built, but 5 smaller prisons will be
The 5 smaller prisons probably have a similar number of cells combined, as the 3 Titan type prisons.
The cell count will in total, will therefore be similar but over more sites.

]]> By: alan jutson http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15162 alan jutson Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:15:07 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15162 John I can assure you that prisons are being built now with far fewer than 1000 pre cast concrete units. I know, because I visited the site just before construction was complete. The particular site I visited had about 250 cells, and was a catagory A Prison. It was built by a Private Company who will run it for the Home office. The same Company have built a number in the UK. Another Private Company also builds and runs prisons and claims to have a better (lower) re-offending rate than the normal State run establishments. With regard to your comment abourt costs. The Private Prison Company's offer a complete design and build turnkey project, and then they manage and run them for the State as well. It is my understanding that they are rather more competitive on cost for both build and running. than the existing State establishments. John
I can assure you that prisons are being built now with far fewer than 1000 pre cast concrete units.
I know, because I visited the site just before construction was complete.
The particular site I visited had about 250 cells, and was a catagory A Prison.
It was built by a Private Company who will run it for the Home office. The same Company have built a number in the UK.
Another Private Company also builds and runs prisons and claims to have a better (lower) re-offending rate than the normal State run establishments.
With regard to your comment abourt costs.
The Private Prison Company’s offer a complete design and build turnkey project, and then they manage and run them for the State as well.
It is my understanding that they are rather more competitive on cost for both build and running. than the existing State establishments.

]]> By: Breaker http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15161 Breaker Wed, 29 Apr 2009 01:08:48 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15161 The Two Homes Secretary (and indeed the rest of this government) haven't the first clue about technology (as the massive overspend on headline IT projects attests). There are companies starting up all over which provide a secure connection to their servers then securely tunnel you over to another country to access the internet. All that the ISP will see is that you have an encrypted connection to your ISP; your online history as far as the UK authorities can trace will be blank. (See http://superawesomebroadband.com/ for details). This also puts a nail in the coffin of English businesses trying to compete abroad - don't the UK secret services have form in passing confidential data from surveillance to UK companies to win contracts over other foreign national companies? Having this information available to government departments can only invite accusations of misconduct. Classic Labour - poorly thought through and malign implementation. The Two Homes Secretary (and indeed the rest of this government) haven’t the first clue about technology (as the massive overspend on headline IT projects attests).

There are companies starting up all over which provide a secure connection to their servers then securely tunnel you over to another country to access the internet. All that the ISP will see is that you have an encrypted connection to your ISP; your online history as far as the UK authorities can trace will be blank. (See http://superawesomebroadband.com/ for details).

This also puts a nail in the coffin of English businesses trying to compete abroad – don’t the UK secret services have form in passing confidential data from surveillance to UK companies to win contracts over other foreign national companies? Having this information available to government departments can only invite accusations of misconduct.

Classic Labour – poorly thought through and malign implementation.

]]> By: molesworth 1 http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15160 molesworth 1 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:39:51 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15160 "...rather than the huge Titian type that were being proposed." So, they haven't saved them for the nation after all? I'm confused... “…rather than the huge Titian type that were being proposed.” So, they haven’t saved them for the nation after all? I’m confused…

]]> By: John Moss http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15159 John Moss Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:57:59 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15159 I know a couple of manufacturers have invested in pre-cast construction, but there isn't really a competitive market, and the builders usually say they need to build 1,000 minimum to justify this. A steady supply of more, smaller sites would address this. And of course, you are right that the real savings come from reduced re-offending from better rehabilitation and training and that that is much more likely with smaller local jails. One thing that is interesting is the Crown Estate regulations on the building of prisons. These are well beyond "building regulations" and often increase costs exponentially. A sensible look at those could yield savings! I know a couple of manufacturers have invested in pre-cast construction, but there isn’t really a competitive market, and the builders usually say they need to build 1,000 minimum to justify this. A steady supply of more, smaller sites would address this.

And of course, you are right that the real savings come from reduced re-offending from better rehabilitation and training and that that is much more likely with smaller local jails.

One thing that is interesting is the Crown Estate regulations on the building of prisons. These are well beyond “building regulations” and often increase costs exponentially. A sensible look at those could yield savings!

]]> By: alan jutson http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15158 alan jutson Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:16:48 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15158 Adrian In an ideal world I would agree with you about prisons. But I am afraid that we all have to live in the World as it is, whilst we make an attempt to change things for the better. If you, or a member of your family had been (I hope not) a victim of violent crime, burglery, or willful damage you may also think that locking them up with an attempt at rehabilition was a better solution than many other forms of so called correction. Aware that the present system is not working well but it does get them off the streets for a period, and so people are therefore more safe for a period. Adrian
In an ideal world I would agree with you about prisons.
But I am afraid that we all have to live in the World as it is, whilst we make an attempt to change things for the better.
If you, or a member of your family had been (I hope not) a victim of violent crime, burglery, or willful damage you may also think that locking them up with an attempt at rehabilition was a better solution than many other forms of so called correction.
Aware that the present system is not working well but it does get them off the streets for a period, and so people are therefore more safe for a period.

]]> By: alan jutson http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15157 alan jutson Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:17:12 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15157 John Many of the new smaller prisons which are PRIVATELY BUILT and PRIVATELY RUN (but paid for on a prisoner by prisoner rate by the Home Office) are built on the US pre cast concrete cell type structure. So we do at the moment have this sort of expertise in this Country. The problem as you say is that we do not have enough prisons. I agree with you that more smaller prisons, are probably that much better for all concerned, visitors, staff and inmates rather than the huge Titian type that were being proposed. But the simple fact is that we simply need more prison places to keep undesirables off of the streets. But Private Prisons have to abide by the same Home Office code of treatment that applies to State run establishments, thus the re-offending rate is similar, although those in the private sector would argue that they are slightly better. John
Many of the new smaller prisons which are PRIVATELY BUILT and PRIVATELY RUN (but paid for on a prisoner by prisoner rate by the Home Office) are built on the US pre cast concrete cell type structure.
So we do at the moment have this sort of expertise in this Country.
The problem as you say is that we do not have enough prisons.
I agree with you that more smaller prisons, are probably that much better for all concerned, visitors, staff and inmates rather than the huge Titian type that were being proposed.
But the simple fact is that we simply need more prison places to keep undesirables off of the streets.
But Private Prisons have to abide by the same Home Office code of treatment that applies to State run establishments, thus the re-offending rate is similar, although those in the private sector would argue that they are slightly better.

]]> By: Adrian Peirson http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/04/28/two-u-turns-and-a-listening-minister/#comment-15156 Adrian Peirson Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:09:03 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3527#comment-15156 If I were Prime Minister I'd hope to be knocking down a few Prisons not building more. I'd start with Morals in schools, and I'd set the Entry Requirements for getting into the Country Much higher. Gurkhas would of course easily pass the entry rquirements and be waved through. If you have to build more prisons, you've failed in my view, which I why I oppose capital punishment, if you need a punishment like that except on very few occaisions, then your policies have failed. If I were Prime Minister I’d hope to be knocking down a few Prisons not building more.

I’d start with Morals in schools, and I’d set the Entry Requirements for getting into the Country Much higher.

Gurkhas would of course easily pass the entry rquirements and be waved through.

If you have to build more prisons, you’ve failed in my view, which I why I oppose capital punishment, if you need a punishment like that except on very few occaisions, then your policies have failed.

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