Comments on: Power to the people

By: SJB

SJB — Sun, 31 May 2009 14:05:22 +0000

Perhaps our creditors may conclude that a sovereign country that will happily breach its treaty obligations (“arbitrary withdrawal”) will not think twice about defaulting on its loans. Therefore, the Credit Default Swaps on UK bonds may rise resulting in an even higher PSBR.

By: SJB

SJB — Sun, 31 May 2009 13:39:21 +0000

The European Election is in a few days time. Do you think the parties in favour of leaving the EU (UKIP & BNP) will achieve a 55% share of the vote?

By: Julian Melford

Julian Melford — Sat, 30 May 2009 19:13:41 +0000

There’s a lot of wishful thinking about ‘renegotiation’, but the key point is that you’re either in Europe and ruled by it, or out.

Those who actually study how the EU works will know that it forced employment legislation (Working Time Directive) by the back door, by labelling it under a heading where we didn’t have a veto. Similarly, the European Court (in Case 22/70) decided that wherever the EU had an ‘internal policy’, by definition it had a matching ‘external’ i.e. foreign policy.

There is more small print, the acquis communautaire, that obliges us to respect and obey the entire loopy package, including accepting the PERMANENT loss of sovereignty. There is no way that the megalomaniacs who want citizen surveillance, EU armies, Lisbon and ever-closer union will allow us powers back within the EU, so ‘renegotiation’ is distraction from the task in hand.

We need an orderly withdrawal, stressing immediate national sovereignty, but committing to a bit of stability in trade and areas such as joint research programmes. It will take a few years to gradually disapply the mass of EU regulations (etc) that have crept into British law.

We can always co-operate via the (non-EU) Council of Europe.

By: Denis Cooper

Denis Cooper — Sat, 30 May 2009 09:34:58 +0000

I don’t know how many times this has to be said.

As a member of the European Economic Area, but not the EU, Norway has to comply with fewer than one in five EU laws, and most of them are of the minor technical standards variety which will also have to be observed by the exporters of any other country when they sell goods and services into the EU.

Mexico, for example, which has a free trade agreement with the EU.

Given the greater size and economic clout of the UK, we will certainly be able to negotiate a more favourable deal than Norway, or Switzerland, or Mexico.

By: Iain

Iain — Sat, 30 May 2009 06:24:58 +0000

Just to reinforce my argument, look no further than the Guardian Newspaper today where EUphile Tory Grandees and FO Diplomats are ganging up to attack the Conservative midly EUsceptic stance.

The Conservatives cannot afford to come to office and allow the FO to sabotage their EU policy, they need a clear out at the FO and need to clip their wings.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/29/david-cameron-european-union-grandees

By: Dr Bernard Juby

Dr Bernard Juby — Fri, 29 May 2009 14:50:03 +0000

Even with a right-wing government under Margaret Thatcher we got ratchet socialism. Just look at the history where the “Mediterranean countries” are still worried about a workers’ revolution (see the Social Chapter). Incidentally I have lived in France for the past 10 years. The French “NO” vote was because the French government gave every single house-hold a copy of the Lisbon Treaty and they, the voters, didn’t like what they were reading! The French are very patriotic and they don’t like losing control of their money supply nor any other inanities from the EU. Most of my neighbours, including the Mayor, want a Union of co-operating sovereign States. It will be interesting to see how they vote this time (all results are published)? 19 in the village voted for Le Pen – who made a very plausible election address on TV the other night.

By: Robert

Robert — Fri, 29 May 2009 11:20:11 +0000

One of the many problems with the debate on Europe is that support for the EU and opposition to it come from polar opposites of the political spectrum. Many on the right wing want out of the EU because they hate the erosion of British sovereignty and the imposition of EU social policy diktat. Many on the left want out because they feel the EU view of social equality does not match their own and believe their socialist ideal would more easily be realised without interference from Brussels. Hence the unholy alliances referred to in Patten’s article (thanks for the url). The so-called “centre ground” seems to favour European integration – Patten and Conservative Europhiles because they believe it can amplify the UK’s voice in the world and Blair because he wants to be President of Europe.
My argument against the EU is the same as my argument in favour of smaller government all round. (It is important to highlight that this viewpoint should not be seen as coming from the “left” or “right” but from a classical liberal tradition).
In theory, the EU is about creating the free movement of goods, labour and capital. In practice, it sees this freedom as applying within only its own boundaries and then only when certain vested interests have been satisfied (for example the Common Agricultural Policy). Beyond that it is a story of protectionism, subsidy and downright bossiness that is antithetical to the notion of free markets. And from the perspective of democracy and accountability it’s a complete non-starter. If ever you wanted to see what happens when bureaucrats get their hands on the controls you just need to look at the shenanigans of the European Parliament and Commission.
I’m simply arguing that globally, politicians need to step to one side and let markets work to rectify the damage that nation states have wreaked through a combination of interference in their own internal markets and distortion of international free trade. Nowhere is this more important in the US.
My comment on Norway was somewhat offhand: I hardly hold up a socialist state as a model of free market capitalism, although you might be surprised by the tough love approach of
the Norwegian state to the enterprises in which it has stakes.

By: THE ESSEX BOYS

THE ESSEX BOYS — Fri, 29 May 2009 08:29:59 +0000

Robin

Our proposal above WOULD have the effect of giving our negotiators the public’s support.

The EU would know that unless the UK government achieve reasonable concessions and renegotiated terms in their first term the subsequent promised referendum would almost certainly carry a ‘No’ recommendation which the public would confirm.

Always best to negotiate, we say, not by wielding or threatening ‘violence’ but with a loaded gun in the drawer that the other side know is there!

By: Mark M

Mark M — Fri, 29 May 2009 07:21:02 +0000

Ok, but what has that got to do with whether we have a referendum?

If we happen to get a ‘Yes’ vote then fair enough, but when polls suggest a strong feeling for leaving the EU even though no major party or newspaper supports that position you have to seriously question whether it’s time to ask the people.

By: Duncan

Duncan — Fri, 29 May 2009 00:23:27 +0000

Jon Stewart once made the joke that the Canadian conservatives are equivalent to the American Gay Nader Fans for Peace Not all conservatives are equal but I agree with SJB, I don’t think that Europe is leftist or that the EU is some kind of socialist conspiracy. It’s just fallen into the trap of believing that the ends justify the undemocratic means. To add to the list of centre-right governments: Italy, Denmark, Estonia, Greece, Malta, Lithuania, Poland, Malta, Latvia, Sweden, Romania, Czech Republic, Belgium, Finland and in grand coalitions in Luxembourg, Austria and The Netherlands.