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	<title>Comments on: MPs pensions</title>
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	<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/</link>
	<description>Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today&#039;s issues and tomorrow&#039;s problems</description>
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		<title>By: Colston Hicks</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18318</link>
		<dc:creator>Colston Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18318</guid>
		<description>When will people accept the fact that MPs are self-employed, in receipt of a self-employed fee from the Treasury, and not entitled employer perks.They are only entitled to the pension created by their own contributions.

They are not civil servants, not part of the public sector employees who, of course, are fully entitled to employer sponsored superannuation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When will people accept the fact that MPs are self-employed, in receipt of a self-employed fee from the Treasury, and not entitled employer perks.They are only entitled to the pension created by their own contributions.</p>
<p>They are not civil servants, not part of the public sector employees who, of course, are fully entitled to employer sponsored superannuation.</p>
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		<title>By: John Moss</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18317</link>
		<dc:creator>John Moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18317</guid>
		<description>The MPs scheme should close to all MPs at the end of this Parliament and the fund should be divided up, first in to a run-off fund to cover existing liabilities and second into a lump sum &quot;pot&quot; which is given to MPs to buy into a new, money purchase scheme. That would buy less than they have currently accrued, but that&#039;s what is happening to almost all employees in such schemes.

Any MPs who want to draw their taxpayer-backed, index-linked, final salary scheme can leave Parliament.

This has two benefits. Firstly, the liabilities are covered. Second, Parliament than has the moral authority to do this across the public sector and draw a finite line under our future liabilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MPs scheme should close to all MPs at the end of this Parliament and the fund should be divided up, first in to a run-off fund to cover existing liabilities and second into a lump sum &#8220;pot&#8221; which is given to MPs to buy into a new, money purchase scheme. That would buy less than they have currently accrued, but that&#8217;s what is happening to almost all employees in such schemes.</p>
<p>Any MPs who want to draw their taxpayer-backed, index-linked, final salary scheme can leave Parliament.</p>
<p>This has two benefits. Firstly, the liabilities are covered. Second, Parliament than has the moral authority to do this across the public sector and draw a finite line under our future liabilities.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Stallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18316</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Stallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18316</guid>
		<description>Spot on, Mr Redwood. Well said!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spot on, Mr Redwood. Well said!</p>
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		<title>By: jean baker</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18315</link>
		<dc:creator>jean baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18315</guid>
		<description>At the last count, taxpayers are funding the equivalent of the population of Scotland (around 5m) on the government&#039;s payroll.
Borrowings continue for the growth in state control of public services via selected bodies, i.e. agencies.   The debt to date is a three generational inheritance of soaring &#039;historic&#039; debt.

Whilst the Kinnocks exemplify the British taxpayer funded benefits of a guaranteed, lucrative pension for &#039;Hailing Brussels&#039;, the savings on British MP&#039;s pensions will make no difference to the economic meltdown Blair created (abolition of clause 4).

It may well, however, deter the serious minded from a career in &#039;British politics&#039;.   It&#039;s a contradiction in terms to save taxpayers&#039; money on our MP&#039;s, whilst the government makes no attempt to cut the vast sums compliantly handed to the EU.

No less than 8,000 Labour employees recently confirmed they do not know what their role is - taxpayer funded, of course.

The party line is blatantly obvious - undermine ALL MP&#039;s and Parliament - &#039;Hail Brussels&#039; &amp; Federal Europe - taxpayer funded &#039;gravy train&#039; for &#039;yes men&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the last count, taxpayers are funding the equivalent of the population of Scotland (around 5m) on the government&#8217;s payroll.<br />
Borrowings continue for the growth in state control of public services via selected bodies, i.e. agencies.   The debt to date is a three generational inheritance of soaring &#8216;historic&#8217; debt.</p>
<p>Whilst the Kinnocks exemplify the British taxpayer funded benefits of a guaranteed, lucrative pension for &#8216;Hailing Brussels&#8217;, the savings on British MP&#8217;s pensions will make no difference to the economic meltdown Blair created (abolition of clause 4).</p>
<p>It may well, however, deter the serious minded from a career in &#8216;British politics&#8217;.   It&#8217;s a contradiction in terms to save taxpayers&#8217; money on our MP&#8217;s, whilst the government makes no attempt to cut the vast sums compliantly handed to the EU.</p>
<p>No less than 8,000 Labour employees recently confirmed they do not know what their role is &#8211; taxpayer funded, of course.</p>
<p>The party line is blatantly obvious &#8211; undermine ALL MP&#8217;s and Parliament &#8211; &#8216;Hail Brussels&#8217; &amp; Federal Europe &#8211; taxpayer funded &#8216;gravy train&#8217; for &#8216;yes men&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lola</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18314</link>
		<dc:creator>Lola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18314</guid>
		<description>Pensions are defined as deferred pay, so yes this is a defacto pay cut.  So what?  However, as all the current state (LA and quangos as well) schemes are grossly generous (and profligately run) the &#039;pay&#039; forgone is about the same as the income tax and NI notionally deducted from state employees salaries.  It is about time that these costs were controlled.  An employer (the taxpayer from private business) contribution at maximum of say 8% of gross pay plus something between 4% and 8% from the employee will suffice to provide pensions benefits of approx 50% of final salary at an NRA of 65 after a 44 year working life.  As this would be a simple money purchase scheme it would be portable at current value.  There would be no actuaries to muck about with a load of dubious and highly sensitive factors to work out cash equivalent transfer values.

Now, why would this deter anyone from becoming an MP?  He or she could accrue benefits in the same way from all employments over their working life and if not already doen so concentrate them in one scheme at NRA to buy an income.

What&#039;s the problem with that?

The knock on benefit will be a dramatic increase in the savings rate and that will help provide pools free capital to be accessed by private business.  What&#039;s not to like?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pensions are defined as deferred pay, so yes this is a defacto pay cut.  So what?  However, as all the current state (LA and quangos as well) schemes are grossly generous (and profligately run) the &#8216;pay&#8217; forgone is about the same as the income tax and NI notionally deducted from state employees salaries.  It is about time that these costs were controlled.  An employer (the taxpayer from private business) contribution at maximum of say 8% of gross pay plus something between 4% and 8% from the employee will suffice to provide pensions benefits of approx 50% of final salary at an NRA of 65 after a 44 year working life.  As this would be a simple money purchase scheme it would be portable at current value.  There would be no actuaries to muck about with a load of dubious and highly sensitive factors to work out cash equivalent transfer values.</p>
<p>Now, why would this deter anyone from becoming an MP?  He or she could accrue benefits in the same way from all employments over their working life and if not already doen so concentrate them in one scheme at NRA to buy an income.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the problem with that?</p>
<p>The knock on benefit will be a dramatic increase in the savings rate and that will help provide pools free capital to be accessed by private business.  What&#8217;s not to like?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18313</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18313</guid>
		<description>Following on from my last comment the EU also proposes removing the ability of pension funds to invest in Equities. Something I feared from the Bureaucrates shortly after the crash.

This is born out of a need to reduce risk for a fund however, those that propose banning investment into Equities don&#039;t understand risk reduction. If by being too cautious you reduce growth too low you increase the risk of loosing the value of your investment against inflation. I&#039;ll put aside the devastating effect it would have on the economy anyway.

There are ways of targeting a growth level above inflation by say taking short positions and clearing those at the end of the day. This means in a crash scenario the following day you have freedom to change portfolio decisions. In conjunction with other parts to the portfolio risk reduction can be done without banning investment in equities by pension funds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following on from my last comment the EU also proposes removing the ability of pension funds to invest in Equities. Something I feared from the Bureaucrates shortly after the crash.</p>
<p>This is born out of a need to reduce risk for a fund however, those that propose banning investment into Equities don&#8217;t understand risk reduction. If by being too cautious you reduce growth too low you increase the risk of loosing the value of your investment against inflation. I&#8217;ll put aside the devastating effect it would have on the economy anyway.</p>
<p>There are ways of targeting a growth level above inflation by say taking short positions and clearing those at the end of the day. This means in a crash scenario the following day you have freedom to change portfolio decisions. In conjunction with other parts to the portfolio risk reduction can be done without banning investment in equities by pension funds.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18312</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18312</guid>
		<description>That would be a good start and in stark contrast to the EU. The EU put through changes to their scheme as they have a large deficit but are now taking themselves to court to overturn it, obviously at our expense.

In the private sector stopping new entrants to the defined benefit scheme is a common first step. It&#039;s also common that it can be followed by stopping further accrual for the existing members.  However, existing MP&#039;s could be saved this second cut for a while. The Election could see a sizeable number leave as MP&#039;s which may have a positive affect on the deficit in the short term (going on John&#039;s proposal).  However, running a defined benefit scheme on a diminishing and ageing number of existing members could prove impossible in the longer term.

Good to hear from an MP that sees that this is a change that is needed. It is needed also in the Civil Service and so is necessary if MP&#039;s want to force that change on the CS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That would be a good start and in stark contrast to the EU. The EU put through changes to their scheme as they have a large deficit but are now taking themselves to court to overturn it, obviously at our expense.</p>
<p>In the private sector stopping new entrants to the defined benefit scheme is a common first step. It&#8217;s also common that it can be followed by stopping further accrual for the existing members.  However, existing MP&#8217;s could be saved this second cut for a while. The Election could see a sizeable number leave as MP&#8217;s which may have a positive affect on the deficit in the short term (going on John&#8217;s proposal).  However, running a defined benefit scheme on a diminishing and ageing number of existing members could prove impossible in the longer term.</p>
<p>Good to hear from an MP that sees that this is a change that is needed. It is needed also in the Civil Service and so is necessary if MP&#8217;s want to force that change on the CS.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark M</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18311</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18311</guid>
		<description>It would be about time that the public sector closed its final salary scheme to new employees. Private sector firms have already done that and are in fact a further step down the line and have started preventing current members making additional contributions to their final salary schemes, shifting them onto part defined benefit, part defined contribution schemes.

Then perhaps we could cancel Gordon Brown&#039;s pension altogether. It would only be fair, given how he has raped and pillaged private pension schemes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be about time that the public sector closed its final salary scheme to new employees. Private sector firms have already done that and are in fact a further step down the line and have started preventing current members making additional contributions to their final salary schemes, shifting them onto part defined benefit, part defined contribution schemes.</p>
<p>Then perhaps we could cancel Gordon Brown&#8217;s pension altogether. It would only be fair, given how he has raped and pillaged private pension schemes.</p>
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		<title>By: APL</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18310</link>
		<dc:creator>APL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18310</guid>
		<description>JR: &quot;The obvious thing to do is to start by closing the scheme to new members, &quot;

The other obvious thing to do is for MPs to contribute more from their own income.

I know someone who currently is contributing 25% of their pretax salary in order to build a pension fund.

That fund is incidently likely to be destroyed by the governments economic policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JR: &#8220;The obvious thing to do is to start by closing the scheme to new members, &#8221;</p>
<p>The other obvious thing to do is for MPs to contribute more from their own income.</p>
<p>I know someone who currently is contributing 25% of their pretax salary in order to build a pension fund.</p>
<p>That fund is incidently likely to be destroyed by the governments economic policies.</p>
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		<title>By: APL</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/06/26/mps-pensions/#comment-18309</link>
		<dc:creator>APL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=3925#comment-18309</guid>
		<description>Off topic a little but related.

What is your opinion of the sanctions in the leglislation being rushed through by Gordon Browns government relaing to MPs fiddling their expenses.

Why should an MP who may have committed fraud be given a lighter maximum sentence under these proposals ( 1 year ) than say an ordinary individual who may have committed fraud and be subjecct a sentence of up to five years?

Do you agree this is another instance of the Government &#039;spinning&#039; the story to appear to be doing something but in actual fact they are introducing more leinent sentences for their particular group or  faction?

Reply: one of the many issues we need to ask about next week when the draft Bill is before the House.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic a little but related.</p>
<p>What is your opinion of the sanctions in the leglislation being rushed through by Gordon Browns government relaing to MPs fiddling their expenses.</p>
<p>Why should an MP who may have committed fraud be given a lighter maximum sentence under these proposals ( 1 year ) than say an ordinary individual who may have committed fraud and be subjecct a sentence of up to five years?</p>
<p>Do you agree this is another instance of the Government &#8216;spinning&#8217; the story to appear to be doing something but in actual fact they are introducing more leinent sentences for their particular group or  faction?</p>
<p>Reply: one of the many issues we need to ask about next week when the draft Bill is before the House.</p>
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