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	<title>Comments on: Quango bonfire</title>
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	<description>Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today&#039;s issues and tomorrow&#039;s problems</description>
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		<title>By: Ian Kiley</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19102</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Kiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19102</guid>
		<description>When deciding on whether to axe a quango we simply need to ask ourselves..&quot;would we miss them if they weren&#039;t there&quot; If we&#039;re butally honest the answer will invariably be NO.  Many quangos when threatened will no doubt waste even more money &amp; run themselves ragged by measuring &amp; justifying their existence to their political piers who created them in the first place.

As a consequence of winding down these quangos (without creating new ones) politiciancs will have to accept the consequence of higher unemployement but in the long run it will be better for the economy as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When deciding on whether to axe a quango we simply need to ask ourselves..&#8221;would we miss them if they weren&#8217;t there&#8221; If we&#8217;re butally honest the answer will invariably be NO.  Many quangos when threatened will no doubt waste even more money &amp; run themselves ragged by measuring &amp; justifying their existence to their political piers who created them in the first place.</p>
<p>As a consequence of winding down these quangos (without creating new ones) politiciancs will have to accept the consequence of higher unemployement but in the long run it will be better for the economy as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Hird</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19101</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Hird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19101</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s entirely reasonable to question any specific item of government expenditure - less sensible is just to throw a handful of acronms in the air drying &quot;abolish the lot&quot;.

I asked about the National School of Government because I had some experience of it when it was the Civil Service College and felt it was doing necessary things that weren&#039;t available off-the-shelf from other  providers of training and education.  Then it was mainly aimed at the &quot;fast stream&quot; training programme for graduate entrants and specific training for the Senior Civil Service.  Other large employers both in the public and the private sector have specialised in house training operations for such groups and not just in the UK - heard of the ENA? As far as mainstream Civil Service training is concerned , much is outsourced and most training of junior staff is provided/contracted by individual departments.  My memory is that the Civil Service College made extensive use of external expertise.

The important questions, regarding any government function, are (i) whether the function is needed, then (ii) whether it can best be provided by a specialised, in house provision and then (iii) whether that should be centralised or distributed.
Decisions are not always made sensibly like this but certainly from the 1970s onwards this sort of analysis was increasingly part of the mechanisms underlying any new initiative or major restructuring, with since 1979, strong presumptions in favour of outsourcing, driven by the Treasury.

By the way, in my original post something got deleted in the last para - but I think the sense struggled through - and regarding the National School of Government, I find that it is not an executive agency but a non-departmental public body.  The old College had been an agency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s entirely reasonable to question any specific item of government expenditure &#8211; less sensible is just to throw a handful of acronms in the air drying &#8220;abolish the lot&#8221;.</p>
<p>I asked about the National School of Government because I had some experience of it when it was the Civil Service College and felt it was doing necessary things that weren&#8217;t available off-the-shelf from other  providers of training and education.  Then it was mainly aimed at the &#8220;fast stream&#8221; training programme for graduate entrants and specific training for the Senior Civil Service.  Other large employers both in the public and the private sector have specialised in house training operations for such groups and not just in the UK &#8211; heard of the ENA? As far as mainstream Civil Service training is concerned , much is outsourced and most training of junior staff is provided/contracted by individual departments.  My memory is that the Civil Service College made extensive use of external expertise.</p>
<p>The important questions, regarding any government function, are (i) whether the function is needed, then (ii) whether it can best be provided by a specialised, in house provision and then (iii) whether that should be centralised or distributed.<br />
Decisions are not always made sensibly like this but certainly from the 1970s onwards this sort of analysis was increasingly part of the mechanisms underlying any new initiative or major restructuring, with since 1979, strong presumptions in favour of outsourcing, driven by the Treasury.</p>
<p>By the way, in my original post something got deleted in the last para &#8211; but I think the sense struggled through &#8211; and regarding the National School of Government, I find that it is not an executive agency but a non-departmental public body.  The old College had been an agency.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19100</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19100</guid>
		<description>Regarding the National School of Government, we already have a number of institutions related to education.

Also, do we need a school to teach people to be a &quot;civil servant&quot;, or alternatively do we need schools to teach people do the various things that civil servants are required to do, which varies from department to department.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the National School of Government, we already have a number of institutions related to education.</p>
<p>Also, do we need a school to teach people to be a &#8220;civil servant&#8221;, or alternatively do we need schools to teach people do the various things that civil servants are required to do, which varies from department to department.</p>
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		<title>By: james harries</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19099</link>
		<dc:creator>james harries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19099</guid>
		<description>sorry i can&#039;t reply to the reply of the reply of david eyles, but...
1. thanks for not flaming me like most blog posts do.
2. it&#039;s a complicated question, but
a) do you think it just or sustainable that a sector gets 20-50% of its income from the taxpayer, and not from its production?
3. my remark that farmers have not been exactly at the forefront of technological change stands
4. your complaint that a long supply chain raises prices is nonsense. i&#039;ve just taken delivery of 500kg of goods on a pallet, transported about 800 miles, for 130€ - try doing it for that price on a horse and cart - and looking through the con numbers there were about 8 trucking firms involved in the delivery, done in three days though you can pay a bit extra to have it in 48hrs.
5. the distinction between government and taxpayer you seem to make is illusory - the government&#039;s money comes from the taxpayer.
6. if it was so easy to &quot;make efficiencies&quot; these would mostly have already been made.
to guy herbert:
logically, if we disregarded the food standards agency and used a smell test to check the use-by date on our food, food prices would fall because there&#039;d be less waste. yes i do disregard use-by dates myself and i&#039;m still alive
although...
yes mr eyles, my brain might have turned spongiform
it&#039;s a fascinating and complex question (we haven&#039;t even started the one about third world impoverishment because of the CAP) and i&#039;d like to think... but maybe the honourable member for wokingham&#039;s blog is not the place for agricultural debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry i can&#8217;t reply to the reply of the reply of david eyles, but&#8230;<br />
1. thanks for not flaming me like most blog posts do.<br />
2. it&#8217;s a complicated question, but<br />
a) do you think it just or sustainable that a sector gets 20-50% of its income from the taxpayer, and not from its production?<br />
3. my remark that farmers have not been exactly at the forefront of technological change stands<br />
4. your complaint that a long supply chain raises prices is nonsense. i&#8217;ve just taken delivery of 500kg of goods on a pallet, transported about 800 miles, for 130€ &#8211; try doing it for that price on a horse and cart &#8211; and looking through the con numbers there were about 8 trucking firms involved in the delivery, done in three days though you can pay a bit extra to have it in 48hrs.<br />
5. the distinction between government and taxpayer you seem to make is illusory &#8211; the government&#8217;s money comes from the taxpayer.<br />
6. if it was so easy to &#8220;make efficiencies&#8221; these would mostly have already been made.<br />
to guy herbert:<br />
logically, if we disregarded the food standards agency and used a smell test to check the use-by date on our food, food prices would fall because there&#8217;d be less waste. yes i do disregard use-by dates myself and i&#8217;m still alive<br />
although&#8230;<br />
yes mr eyles, my brain might have turned spongiform<br />
it&#8217;s a fascinating and complex question (we haven&#8217;t even started the one about third world impoverishment because of the CAP) and i&#8217;d like to think&#8230; but maybe the honourable member for wokingham&#8217;s blog is not the place for agricultural debate.</p>
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		<title>By: David Whitford</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19098</link>
		<dc:creator>David Whitford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19098</guid>
		<description>As a small addendum to the list of good works &amp; valuable investment of taxpayer&#039;s cash carried out by the regional development agencies, I note that the North-West Regional Development Agency is the main sponsor of the National Football Museum (Preston) Hall of Fame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a small addendum to the list of good works &amp; valuable investment of taxpayer&#8217;s cash carried out by the regional development agencies, I note that the North-West Regional Development Agency is the main sponsor of the National Football Museum (Preston) Hall of Fame.</p>
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		<title>By: David Eyles</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19097</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eyles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19097</guid>
		<description>In the nineteenth century, food prices to the consumer amounted to 70 to 80% of their disposable income. Now that figure is less than 10%. You, the consumer are getting more and cheaper food than ever before in history. The cost of increased production and efficiency is that farm incomes are increasingly marginal until we have reached the point where many, many are going out of business. Dairy farms in particular are in a dire mess, with family units no longer able to carry on because of the stranglehold the supermarkets have over the market. The UK used to be self sufficient in liquid milk and now we are importing it. And that situation exists despite the lifeline provided by the taxpayer in the form of farm payments.

As things stand at the moment, with all the imbalances in the market and the unwillingness of the consumer to pay more money for food, the overnight abolition of CAP would mean that UK and European food production would drop dramatically. And the first whingers in the lengthening food queues would be those who think that farmers have it easy by dipping into the taxpayers&#039; pockets.

In the meantime, we need more government research not less. I am not asking for more money to be spent by the taxpayer, only that the same budget (or a slightly smaller one)could be spent to so much better effect.

Incidentally, the basic laws of dimishing returns dictates that agricultural technology demands more and more money to be sunk into acheiving fewer returns in terms of production. The eigteenth, nineteenth and twentieth century strides forward were a lot easier to attain than much smaller advances now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the nineteenth century, food prices to the consumer amounted to 70 to 80% of their disposable income. Now that figure is less than 10%. You, the consumer are getting more and cheaper food than ever before in history. The cost of increased production and efficiency is that farm incomes are increasingly marginal until we have reached the point where many, many are going out of business. Dairy farms in particular are in a dire mess, with family units no longer able to carry on because of the stranglehold the supermarkets have over the market. The UK used to be self sufficient in liquid milk and now we are importing it. And that situation exists despite the lifeline provided by the taxpayer in the form of farm payments.</p>
<p>As things stand at the moment, with all the imbalances in the market and the unwillingness of the consumer to pay more money for food, the overnight abolition of CAP would mean that UK and European food production would drop dramatically. And the first whingers in the lengthening food queues would be those who think that farmers have it easy by dipping into the taxpayers&#8217; pockets.</p>
<p>In the meantime, we need more government research not less. I am not asking for more money to be spent by the taxpayer, only that the same budget (or a slightly smaller one)could be spent to so much better effect.</p>
<p>Incidentally, the basic laws of dimishing returns dictates that agricultural technology demands more and more money to be sunk into acheiving fewer returns in terms of production. The eigteenth, nineteenth and twentieth century strides forward were a lot easier to attain than much smaller advances now.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19096</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19096</guid>
		<description>Wound down now! No demos in the streets
Even had PWC on the go

THE MUSIC AND DANCE SCHEME ADVISORY GROUP

Between 1999 and 2000 the Department undertook a wide-ranging review of the scheme with the help of consultants from PricewaterhouseCoopers. One of the recommendations in their Final Report was to set up an Advisory Group to oversee the future operation and development of the MDS.

The Group was established by Estelle Morris, then Minister of State, in September 2000. Roger Lewis, then Managing Director and Programme Controller at Classic fM was appointed Chairman, with 14 other members, drawing on people with experience and knowledge of the music and dance worlds, the education and training of young musicians and dancers, and from business and the performing arts. The Group was extended in 2001 and 2002, and re-constituted in 2004 to include more representation from the maintained performing arts sector and from the wider dance sector.  Tony Hall, Chief Executive at the Royal Opera House, succeeded Roger Lewis as Chairman in 2004.

The Group has now completed its work and was wound up in the Summer 2007.  Its last published report can be downloaded from this page (see below).

Advisory Group&#039;s Fifth Report 2004/05</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wound down now! No demos in the streets<br />
Even had PWC on the go</p>
<p>THE MUSIC AND DANCE SCHEME ADVISORY GROUP</p>
<p>Between 1999 and 2000 the Department undertook a wide-ranging review of the scheme with the help of consultants from PricewaterhouseCoopers. One of the recommendations in their Final Report was to set up an Advisory Group to oversee the future operation and development of the MDS.</p>
<p>The Group was established by Estelle Morris, then Minister of State, in September 2000. Roger Lewis, then Managing Director and Programme Controller at Classic fM was appointed Chairman, with 14 other members, drawing on people with experience and knowledge of the music and dance worlds, the education and training of young musicians and dancers, and from business and the performing arts. The Group was extended in 2001 and 2002, and re-constituted in 2004 to include more representation from the maintained performing arts sector and from the wider dance sector.  Tony Hall, Chief Executive at the Royal Opera House, succeeded Roger Lewis as Chairman in 2004.</p>
<p>The Group has now completed its work and was wound up in the Summer 2007.  Its last published report can be downloaded from this page (see below).</p>
<p>Advisory Group&#8217;s Fifth Report 2004/05</p>
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		<title>By: Guy Herbert</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19095</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19095</guid>
		<description>You left out the biggest of all, the Food Standards Agency. This is a recent creation to give official power to those agitators on the subject who established their profile over the preceeding thirty years. It has done nothing to benefit the public, but is merely mechanism for reproducing a particular quasi-consumerist ideology of puritanism and the promotion of virtual risk.

The great improvements in food variety and quality since, say, 1980 has been driven by market competition not bureaucratic &#039;standards&#039;. Even in 1980 food safety was scarcely a problem at all in this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You left out the biggest of all, the Food Standards Agency. This is a recent creation to give official power to those agitators on the subject who established their profile over the preceeding thirty years. It has done nothing to benefit the public, but is merely mechanism for reproducing a particular quasi-consumerist ideology of puritanism and the promotion of virtual risk.</p>
<p>The great improvements in food variety and quality since, say, 1980 has been driven by market competition not bureaucratic &#8216;standards&#8217;. Even in 1980 food safety was scarcely a problem at all in this country.</p>
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		<title>By: no one</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19094</link>
		<dc:creator>no one</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 02:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19094</guid>
		<description>http://thejobbingdoctor.blogspot.com/2009/07/anna-walker-pops-up-again.html

few more there</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://thejobbingdoctor.blogspot.com/2009/07/anna-walker-pops-up-again.html" rel="nofollow">http://thejobbingdoctor.blogspot.com/2009/07/anna-walker-pops-up-again.html</a></p>
<p>few more there</p>
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		<title>By: james harries</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/09/quango-bonfire/#comment-19093</link>
		<dc:creator>james harries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4020#comment-19093</guid>
		<description>a reply to the reply...

why does the consumer have to pay for the producer&#039;s research?

in the last century we have invented engines which made horses and oxen redundant, so farmers could use 100% of their land to grow food instead of 60%. we invented weedkillers which made the land produce 95% useful crop instead of 50% useful crop. we developed bug/drought/flood resistant strains which took the risk out of planting all at the same time. we developed higher yield varieties. soon we can sow genetically modified crops which will produce reliable food with a bar code on every stalk...

by any analysis, agricultural land has tripled in productivity, thanks to external efforts which were not made by the farmers.

so why is farming in such dire straits that it needs one third of the entire EU budget spent supporting it?

could it be anything to do with the farmers?

let them get together and fund their own research. enough pulling on the teat of the taxpayer, already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a reply to the reply&#8230;</p>
<p>why does the consumer have to pay for the producer&#8217;s research?</p>
<p>in the last century we have invented engines which made horses and oxen redundant, so farmers could use 100% of their land to grow food instead of 60%. we invented weedkillers which made the land produce 95% useful crop instead of 50% useful crop. we developed bug/drought/flood resistant strains which took the risk out of planting all at the same time. we developed higher yield varieties. soon we can sow genetically modified crops which will produce reliable food with a bar code on every stalk&#8230;</p>
<p>by any analysis, agricultural land has tripled in productivity, thanks to external efforts which were not made by the farmers.</p>
<p>so why is farming in such dire straits that it needs one third of the entire EU budget spent supporting it?</p>
<p>could it be anything to do with the farmers?</p>
<p>let them get together and fund their own research. enough pulling on the teat of the taxpayer, already.</p>
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