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	<title>Comments on: A sad and heavy loss</title>
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	<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/</link>
	<description>Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today&#039;s issues and tomorrow&#039;s problems</description>
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		<title>By: A. Sedgwick</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19161</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Sedgwick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19161</guid>
		<description>Is it time to pull our troops out of Afghanistan?
Yes 78%
No 22%
Daily Mail poll 13/07/2009</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it time to pull our troops out of Afghanistan?<br />
Yes 78%<br />
No 22%<br />
Daily Mail poll 13/07/2009</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Lamb</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19160</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Lamb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19160</guid>
		<description>General Roberts, the 19th Century conqueror of Kabul observed  &quot;The less the Afghans see us, the less they will dislike us.&quot;  Our very presence in that complicated land causes them to attack our soldiers.  We send bigger armoured cars, they build more powerful bombs.  When we kill Afghans in airstrikes and the like, we make more enemies than we kill.
It is a distant land of which we know nothing and we are better off out.

It could be argued that to leave is to betray the memory of the 184 British soldiers who have died (not forgetting the many from other NATO states).  How many more have to die before we all decide that enough is enough?

You and your fellow Parliamentarians need to find a way that allows us to declare victory and get out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>General Roberts, the 19th Century conqueror of Kabul observed  &#8220;The less the Afghans see us, the less they will dislike us.&#8221;  Our very presence in that complicated land causes them to attack our soldiers.  We send bigger armoured cars, they build more powerful bombs.  When we kill Afghans in airstrikes and the like, we make more enemies than we kill.<br />
It is a distant land of which we know nothing and we are better off out.</p>
<p>It could be argued that to leave is to betray the memory of the 184 British soldiers who have died (not forgetting the many from other NATO states).  How many more have to die before we all decide that enough is enough?</p>
<p>You and your fellow Parliamentarians need to find a way that allows us to declare victory and get out.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally C.</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19159</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19159</guid>
		<description>I agree with the other comments and find the constant drip feed of deaths increasingly hard to bear. But what I find particularly hard to understand is why our EU partners are not in Helmand province with us. We are just not big enough to be as effective as we would like but if the British forces in Helmand were boosted with German, French and Italian (don&#039;t laugh!) forces they might have more of a chance and it would send a strong message to the Taleban that we all find them unacceptable. This is one area where being part of the European Union might have a benefit for the UK, but it isn&#039;t happening. German peacekeepers in Kabul don&#039;t count!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the other comments and find the constant drip feed of deaths increasingly hard to bear. But what I find particularly hard to understand is why our EU partners are not in Helmand province with us. We are just not big enough to be as effective as we would like but if the British forces in Helmand were boosted with German, French and Italian (don&#8217;t laugh!) forces they might have more of a chance and it would send a strong message to the Taleban that we all find them unacceptable. This is one area where being part of the European Union might have a benefit for the UK, but it isn&#8217;t happening. German peacekeepers in Kabul don&#8217;t count!</p>
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		<title>By: jean baker</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19158</link>
		<dc:creator>jean baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19158</guid>
		<description>The Falklands is British terrority with rights to defence.  Mrs Thatcher&#039;s well considered and strategically successful mission on behalf of &#039;British&#039; inhabitants was subjected to full and open  Parliamentary debate prior to declaration of war with majority support.

Blair&#039;s reasons and methods for invading and occupying Iraq &amp; Afghanistan were, according to reports, tenuous and not, according to reports at the time,approved by NATO.   Dr Kelly was the first &#039;victim&#039; of Blair&#039;s war on Iraq - the respected scientists findings, no WMD&#039;s - reportedly hounded to death.  Thereafter, innocent British citizens were killed in 7/7 London bombings.

Whilst our men were dying for &#039;the cause&#039; in Iraq, a hate preacher was (reportedly) receiving £25,000 in benefits, courtesy of &#039;government rules&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Falklands is British terrority with rights to defence.  Mrs Thatcher&#8217;s well considered and strategically successful mission on behalf of &#8216;British&#8217; inhabitants was subjected to full and open  Parliamentary debate prior to declaration of war with majority support.</p>
<p>Blair&#8217;s reasons and methods for invading and occupying Iraq &amp; Afghanistan were, according to reports, tenuous and not, according to reports at the time,approved by NATO.   Dr Kelly was the first &#8216;victim&#8217; of Blair&#8217;s war on Iraq &#8211; the respected scientists findings, no WMD&#8217;s &#8211; reportedly hounded to death.  Thereafter, innocent British citizens were killed in 7/7 London bombings.</p>
<p>Whilst our men were dying for &#8216;the cause&#8217; in Iraq, a hate preacher was (reportedly) receiving £25,000 in benefits, courtesy of &#8216;government rules&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Peirson</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19157</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Peirson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19157</guid>
		<description>Completely open border policy througout the EU, Gordon Brown has absolutely no idea how many or who are coming in and that Buffoon says the war in afghanistan is making Britains Streets safer.
Not according to Police Internet wanted posters.
Besides, the War in Afghanistan is a Fraud, I want to know why large quantitites of thermate have been found by several groups of independant researchers at the World Trade Centre.

Architects and Engineers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO2yT0uBQbM

Nanothermite at WTC 1,2 and 7 ( WTC 7 is the one you never heard of, the one that collapsed, just like WTC1 and 2, at freefall speed, neatly into its own footprint, the one, just like the others too that had tons of Molten steel under neath it )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_2et5WMvVQ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely open border policy througout the EU, Gordon Brown has absolutely no idea how many or who are coming in and that Buffoon says the war in afghanistan is making Britains Streets safer.<br />
Not according to Police Internet wanted posters.<br />
Besides, the War in Afghanistan is a Fraud, I want to know why large quantitites of thermate have been found by several groups of independant researchers at the World Trade Centre.</p>
<p>Architects and Engineers<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO2yT0uBQbM" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO2yT0uBQbM</a></p>
<p>Nanothermite at WTC 1,2 and 7 ( WTC 7 is the one you never heard of, the one that collapsed, just like WTC1 and 2, at freefall speed, neatly into its own footprint, the one, just like the others too that had tons of Molten steel under neath it )</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_2et5WMvVQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_2et5WMvVQ</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alan Wheatley</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19156</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Wheatley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19156</guid>
		<description>A good link to a very interesting article. In amongst the many good points made there are some aspects I find less persuasive.

The reference to the Malayan campaign has a personal resonance as my Uncle won the DFC for his flying exploits there. As I understand it, that was a campaign that was going nowhere until the tactics were changed to something that worked in the particular circumstances. In Afghanistan we are told about &quot;grass cutting&quot; where by Allied forces push the Taliban out of an area, then leave it, allowing the Taliban to re-enter, only to have to repeat the process. This seems to me plain daft and its main consequence to upset the locals no end. This is the exact opposite to the successful tactic deployed in Malaya.

Historical references to the the Afghans resistance to invasion applied to the current Allied deployment are not convincing if you accept the Allies are not trying to take over Afghanistan but to provide sufficient security for the Afghans to determine their own future. News reports of British troop engagements indicate the current enemy are mostly foreigners, not Afghans. One would hope that if the Allies do enable the Afghans to determine their own future they will see us in a friendly light during and after our subsequent withdrawal.

Of course, getting the strategy right and deploying the right tactics (eventually) is all pointless unless you are prepared to properly resource the endeavour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good link to a very interesting article. In amongst the many good points made there are some aspects I find less persuasive.</p>
<p>The reference to the Malayan campaign has a personal resonance as my Uncle won the DFC for his flying exploits there. As I understand it, that was a campaign that was going nowhere until the tactics were changed to something that worked in the particular circumstances. In Afghanistan we are told about &#8220;grass cutting&#8221; where by Allied forces push the Taliban out of an area, then leave it, allowing the Taliban to re-enter, only to have to repeat the process. This seems to me plain daft and its main consequence to upset the locals no end. This is the exact opposite to the successful tactic deployed in Malaya.</p>
<p>Historical references to the the Afghans resistance to invasion applied to the current Allied deployment are not convincing if you accept the Allies are not trying to take over Afghanistan but to provide sufficient security for the Afghans to determine their own future. News reports of British troop engagements indicate the current enemy are mostly foreigners, not Afghans. One would hope that if the Allies do enable the Afghans to determine their own future they will see us in a friendly light during and after our subsequent withdrawal.</p>
<p>Of course, getting the strategy right and deploying the right tactics (eventually) is all pointless unless you are prepared to properly resource the endeavour.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Wheatley</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19155</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Wheatley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19155</guid>
		<description>I am a reader of this site who is not &quot;strongly of the view that we should not be in Afghanistan&quot;.

I do think there are questions to be asked about the objectives and, more particularly, the means for the deployment, but it is a long way from such questions to say we should not be there at all. It seems to me there was a good reason to go there in the first place, and it is a shame that instead of capitalising on initial success we shifted attention to Iraq, resulting in a poor job being done in both places.

Unfavourable conclusions based on comparison with historic British involvement with Afghanistan is misplaced because the circumstances and the objectives are different.

To leave Afghanistan too soon will store up more problems for the future. Given the problem areas along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border it is pretty stupid to reduce capability on the Afghanistan side at a time when the Pakistan is trying to do something better on their side. And what will all the mall-contents around the World think of a major power and permanent member of the UN Security Council if they can not hack it in this petty squabble?

I realise the UK is not the major player - but that is a whole different argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a reader of this site who is not &#8220;strongly of the view that we should not be in Afghanistan&#8221;.</p>
<p>I do think there are questions to be asked about the objectives and, more particularly, the means for the deployment, but it is a long way from such questions to say we should not be there at all. It seems to me there was a good reason to go there in the first place, and it is a shame that instead of capitalising on initial success we shifted attention to Iraq, resulting in a poor job being done in both places.</p>
<p>Unfavourable conclusions based on comparison with historic British involvement with Afghanistan is misplaced because the circumstances and the objectives are different.</p>
<p>To leave Afghanistan too soon will store up more problems for the future. Given the problem areas along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border it is pretty stupid to reduce capability on the Afghanistan side at a time when the Pakistan is trying to do something better on their side. And what will all the mall-contents around the World think of a major power and permanent member of the UN Security Council if they can not hack it in this petty squabble?</p>
<p>I realise the UK is not the major player &#8211; but that is a whole different argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Bazman</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19154</link>
		<dc:creator>Bazman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19154</guid>
		<description>Bear in mind that the Russians never lost in military terms, but politically in Afghanistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bear in mind that the Russians never lost in military terms, but politically in Afghanistan.</p>
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		<title>By: brian kelly</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19153</link>
		<dc:creator>brian kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19153</guid>
		<description>There is an article today in The DT: Afghanistan: &#039;A war we cannot win&#039; by Rory Stewart. I recommend reading this excellent, in my view, article.  We urgently need a re-evaluation of our policies and commitments there - and having reached sober and intelligent decisions must, if there has be a some sort of presence there in the interests of this country, provide the proper resources to our armed forces to enable them to achieve their objectives. We will look in vain to this misbegotten government for this and a GE is most urgently needed. Blair, Brown and Reid, as a minimum must be made to answer before the British Public for their policies over Afghanistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an article today in The DT: Afghanistan: &#8216;A war we cannot win&#8217; by Rory Stewart. I recommend reading this excellent, in my view, article.  We urgently need a re-evaluation of our policies and commitments there &#8211; and having reached sober and intelligent decisions must, if there has be a some sort of presence there in the interests of this country, provide the proper resources to our armed forces to enable them to achieve their objectives. We will look in vain to this misbegotten government for this and a GE is most urgently needed. Blair, Brown and Reid, as a minimum must be made to answer before the British Public for their policies over Afghanistan.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Stallard</title>
		<link>http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/11/a-sad-and-heavy-loss/#comment-19152</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Stallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4030#comment-19152</guid>
		<description>People often condemn the fact that the Labour party contains so few people who have been outside Westminster. Well, here is the proof of the pudding: they simply have not got a clue about anything military.
The noble aims of making the country where the Kite Runner took place into downtown Michigan simply is not possible.
To subdue Afghanistan, apparently, you need about half a million men.
Any member of the government who had been anywhere near the military could, presumably see that this is Mission Impossible.
To hear Dvid Miliband waffling on yesterday was actually rather sick making. I wonder what kind of a soldier he would make?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People often condemn the fact that the Labour party contains so few people who have been outside Westminster. Well, here is the proof of the pudding: they simply have not got a clue about anything military.<br />
The noble aims of making the country where the Kite Runner took place into downtown Michigan simply is not possible.<br />
To subdue Afghanistan, apparently, you need about half a million men.<br />
Any member of the government who had been anywhere near the military could, presumably see that this is Mission Impossible.<br />
To hear Dvid Miliband waffling on yesterday was actually rather sick making. I wonder what kind of a soldier he would make?</p>
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