Comments on: John Redwood’s contributions to the Political Parties and Elections Bill http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/14/john-redwoods-contributions-to-the-political-parties-and-elections-bill/ Incisive and topical campaigns and commentary on today's issues and tomorrow's problems Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:05:58 +0000 hourly 1 By: Denis Cooper http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/14/john-redwoods-contributions-to-the-political-parties-and-elections-bill/#comment-19346 Denis Cooper Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:51:42 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4051#comment-19346 That's one reason for the secret ballot - so that anybody who paid an elector to vote for a certain candidate would have no way of checking whether they'd actually done so. But what you're suggesting would be more like plutocracy than democracy. That’s one reason for the secret ballot – so that anybody who paid an elector to vote for a certain candidate would have no way of checking whether they’d actually done so. But what you’re suggesting would be more like plutocracy than democracy.

]]> By: Neil Craig http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/14/john-redwoods-contributions-to-the-political-parties-and-elections-bill/#comment-19345 Neil Craig Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:32:41 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4051#comment-19345 A beautifully cynical & lergely true answer Denis. Where, apart from having a revolution, my proposal scores is that governmental structure tends to incentivise competent government (I will put it no stronger than that & indeed perfection in human affairs not being available that is probably the best we can do). The EU on the other hand, irrespective of merits of individuals, incentivises bureaucracy, indecision & parasitic government. A thought I have had is that we should let people sell their votes. Not the single votes but the right to vote in the seller's name for a specific period or even for life. It would be much cheaper than buying votes by locating projects in marginal constituencies, would keep the sellers happy & I have no problem with somebody so lacking in social responsibility not having a say in government. It would even improve turnout since nobody who had either spent money on a vote or deliberately foregone a several hundred pound bribe wouldn't vote. A beautifully cynical & lergely true answer Denis. Where, apart from having a revolution, my proposal scores is that governmental structure tends to incentivise competent government (I will put it no stronger than that & indeed perfection in human affairs not being available that is probably the best we can do). The EU on the other hand, irrespective of merits of individuals, incentivises bureaucracy, indecision & parasitic government.

A thought I have had is that we should let people sell their votes. Not the single votes but the right to vote in the seller’s name for a specific period or even for life. It would be much cheaper than buying votes by locating projects in marginal constituencies, would keep the sellers happy & I have no problem with somebody so lacking in social responsibility not having a say in government. It would even improve turnout since nobody who had either spent money on a vote or deliberately foregone a several hundred pound bribe wouldn’t vote.

]]> By: Arden Forester http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/14/john-redwoods-contributions-to-the-political-parties-and-elections-bill/#comment-19344 Arden Forester Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:32:10 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4051#comment-19344 "It is a pity that the Government wish to rush through what could turn out to be a bungled and unsatisfactory piece of legislation." Well said. This, however, is not the first. The history of New Labour appears to be a subject in its own right. One of bungling, rushing to judgement, pontification, dissembling, mockery, anti-English gerrymandering, malfeasance, corruption, coercion, vulgarity, incompetence, control freakery, meddling, and just downright awfulness. Thomas Beckett was described as a turbulent priest. This lot is one turbo-charged turbulent government! “It is a pity that the Government wish to rush through what could turn out to be a bungled and unsatisfactory piece of legislation.”

Well said. This, however, is not the first. The history of New Labour appears to be a subject in its own right. One of bungling, rushing to judgement, pontification, dissembling, mockery, anti-English gerrymandering, malfeasance, corruption, coercion, vulgarity, incompetence, control freakery, meddling, and just downright awfulness.

Thomas Beckett was described as a turbulent priest. This lot is one turbo-charged turbulent government!

]]> By: Denis Cooper http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/14/john-redwoods-contributions-to-the-political-parties-and-elections-bill/#comment-19343 Denis Cooper Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:25:19 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4051#comment-19343 The practice of giving every adult citizen an equal vote certainly has its disadvantages, but it has the overwhelming advantage that it reduces the need for periodic violent revolutions - which was in fact one of the main reasons why the franchise was gradually extended. However the ruling class has found ways to neutralise the unwelcome effects of universal suffrage, of which the most notable is to persuade Parliament to delegate more and more of its law-making powers to external bodies which are less answerable to the voters. Mainly the EU, of course, but also the UN. Hence parliamentary democracy has now been largely supplanted by a new system of government, "internal government by international treaty", which I guess could eventually end in the violent revolution we previously avoided. The practice of giving every adult citizen an equal vote certainly has its disadvantages, but it has the overwhelming advantage that it reduces the need for periodic violent revolutions – which was in fact one of the main reasons why the franchise was gradually extended. However the ruling class has found ways to neutralise the unwelcome effects of universal suffrage, of which the most notable is to persuade Parliament to delegate more and more of its law-making powers to external bodies which are less answerable to the voters. Mainly the EU, of course, but also the UN. Hence parliamentary democracy has now been largely supplanted by a new system of government, “internal government by international treaty”, which I guess could eventually end in the violent revolution we previously avoided.

]]> By: Neil Craig http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/07/14/john-redwoods-contributions-to-the-political-parties-and-elections-bill/#comment-19342 Neil Craig Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:45:37 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4051#comment-19342 Purely theoretical & off the main point but I think there is a fair case for people who don't pay taxes, or are in receipt of more money from the state than they pay not voting (some of whom like windfarm owners, quangoists & farmers are well off). As Mencken said when the government robs Peter to pay Paul they are assured Paul's vote - if he has one. I grant there is no real chance of that happening in the foreseable future. Purely theoretical & off the main point but I think there is a fair case for people who don’t pay taxes, or are in receipt of more money from the state than they pay not voting (some of whom like windfarm owners, quangoists & farmers are well off). As Mencken said when the government robs Peter to pay Paul they are assured Paul’s vote – if he has one.

I grant there is no real chance of that happening in the foreseable future.

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