John Redwood’s contribution to the Finance Bill debate, 6 July

Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): I remind the House that in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests I have declared that I offer business advice to an industrial and an investment company.

In this debate, the Labour Treasury spokesman wanted to talk the economy into a double dip. He was trying to create a mood of gloom and doom. He rejected the independent forecasts provided in conjunction with the Budget and the many independent forecasts put together by people outside the House, and sometimes outside the country, which all say that a recovery is expected for the British economy over the next five years and that that recovery will be led by investments and exports.

Obviously, the scepticism among those on the Opposition Benches arises because Labour Members have not understood one fundamental thing. The economy was so badly damaged and devastated by what happened in 2008-09 that it can indeed, I am pleased to tell the House, have a recovery based on higher exports, higher manufacturing output and higher service sector output-because the outputs were so badly hit in ’08-’09. That does not mean that we will go into a new utopia or suddenly into overdrive with superbly high growth rates; it means that we will start recovering from a disastrous banking crisis and recession, which some of us felt were made far worse by the policies and antics of the Labour party when it was in office.

To try to buttress its double-dip case, the Labour party is now saying that the true Treasury forecast says that, far from there being a drop in unemployment, there will be 1.3 million job losses and that somehow my right hon. and hon. Friends at the Treasury are trying to conceal that. As I understand it, the leak to The Guardian was misjudged because it was a working paper with lots of errors in it. The proper expression of Treasury opinion was passed to the Office for Budget Responsibility, which is manned by people of independent judgment who could ask the Treasury for all the details that they wanted about its workings, and could use the Treasury’s own models. They came to the perfectly sensible conclusion, shared by most other forecasters, that there will be nothing like that degree of job loss and that unemployment will indeed fall over the period of the forecast.

Kelvin Hopkins: The right hon. Gentleman has paid a glowing tribute to the Treasury. Was it not the Treasury that advised the 1979 Conservative Government, who drove us into a massive recession, with 3 million unemployed? Was it not the Treasury that advised the then Conservative Government to go into the exchange rate mechanism and cause 2 million to be unemployed? Did not the Treasury get things wrong time and again? Is the right hon. Gentleman not praying in aid an organisation that has demonstrated its failure over and over again?

Mr Redwood: The hon. Gentleman is making my case for me; I am saying that the 1.3 million forecast figure was an error, and that it will be seen as such. He rightly says that the Treasury can make mistakes. On this occasion, we are pleased to say that an independent judge outside is reviewing all the facts and figures and the working papers and coming up with a forecast that reflects the views of many more people outside the Treasury.

Owen Smith: Given the right hon. Gentleman’s admission that the OBR’s forecast on job losses may be wrong- [Interruption.] Well, if he was not implying that, that is what I took him to be implying. Irrespective of that, I want to ask about the OBR forecast’s and the leaked Treasury document’s anticipation of increases in private sector jobs over the next five years. Given the right hon. Gentleman’s long experience of economic matters, will he comment on the plausibility of that suggestion, given that during no period in the past 40 years has that volume of private sector jobs been created, apart from in the early 1980s-and then only through the fiction of the privatisations.

Mr Redwood: The point that I have been making for the Labour party’s benefit is that I think it is possible to get a reasonable private sector-led recovery from here, because the private sector was so gravely damaged and battered, and the figures were so awful, in ’08-’09. We are talking about rates of change from a very low base, so it is quite possible for things to get going.

Clive Efford rose-

Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab) rose-

Mr Redwood: I should like to finish my point.

At the moment, there are worries, reflected in the comments made by the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, that the clouds may be gathering again in the international community, and we need to watch that. I suggest to those on the Treasury Bench that we need to do more work on ensuring that our banks are capable of lending in sufficient quantities so that all the private sector projects we need and all the private capital we need for the public projects as well can go forward as rapidly as possible.

We can encourage that to happen in many ways. An important part of the policy is that when we get some control over public spending and the public deficit, to instil confidence in the markets, we use those markets for a well financed private sector-led recovery, so that we can surprise on the upside in comparison with the fairly cautious figures given by the OBR. I am certainly not challenging the OBR figures, which are the best available at the moment. I would like to think that we could improve on them over the five years. If we do more about how the banks work and are regulated, so that we can accept that they have enough cash and capital for this stage of the cycle, and if we allow them to get on with the job of lending more money to businesses and worthwhile public projects, we can make progress.

We can also make a lot more progress in the public sector in respect of the public spending plans published in the Budget. Those public sector spending plans show public spending going up every year in cash terms over the five years to which the Finance Bill relates and is trying to finance. The increases are not very big, so if there were lots of wage increases and a lot of price inflation for the things bought by the public sector, and if there were the explosion in benefit claims that Labour is wrongly forecasting, there would of course be a big squeeze on much valued public services. We Government Members do not wish to see that any more than Labour Members do, and I wish that they would not keep pretending that somehow we want to cut the services, because we do not.

Grahame M. Morris: Two simple decisions arose from the Budget: the new £464 million hospital north of the Tees and the £500 million Building Schools for the Future projects in County Durham were cancelled. All would have been built by the private sector. How will those cancellations assist the growth in the private sector, particularly in respect of jobs in my constituency?

Mr Redwood: As the hon. Gentleman should be aware, the outgoing Government’s capital spending plans have not been changed by this Government. We have to accept the previous Government’s plans for a modest increase in the capital stock of the state over a period of great stress in the budgets. But the cancellation of the Building Schools for the Future programme and its replacement with a programme that gives better value for money is exactly what we want. The trouble with Building Schools for the Future was that there were three years of delay and £10 million of consultancy costs before bricks and mortar or steel and glass could even start to be laid.

What my right hon. and hon. Friends rightly want to do is cut out all that nonsense, stop wasting all the money on the documentation, delays, consultancies and all the rest of it, and have a more straightforward approach, so that a bigger proportion of the inherited capital expenditure budget can be spent on bricks and mortar and bricklayers’ wages, as the hon. Gentleman wants.

Owen Smith: Is the right hon. Gentleman worried in any way by the remarks, made during the radio discussion that he took part in this morning, about the £50 billion of contracts that would be taken out of the construction industry as a result of the cancellation of the Building Schools for the Future programme? Will that not have a detrimental impact on the economy-specifically, on jobs in construction?

Mr Redwood: Once again, the hon. Gentleman is not listening. I was explaining that the coalition Government have made no change to the capital expenditure line that they inherited from the outgoing Government. What they will do is get more bang for the buck-to get more spending on construction, relative to the total investment line in the Budget. On the radio this morning, I was able to satisfy the other people in the discussion; the independent forecaster’s overall forecasts for the economy say that investment is going to rise. There will be an overall increase in investment because more homes will be built over the next five years than the pathetically low figure that was reached under Labour. There will be more investment in housing improvement, and more investment by the private sector. That more than offsets the decline in the investment programme in the public sector inherited from Labour.

Mr Meacher: The right hon. Gentleman’s fantasy that there will be a continuation of or an increase in capital investment is completely belied by the OBR forecast on page 90 of the Treasury Red Book, which shows that net investment will fall from £49 billion in the current year to £21 billion in 2014-15. That is a colossal drop.

Mr Redwood: Those are Labour’s figures for the public sector. I have just told the House that I am talking about total investment across the economy. Overall, the right hon. Gentleman will find in the Red Book that it is anticipated that the rises in investment elsewhere will more than offset Labour’s cuts in the capital programme, which we have decided to live with. I should also tell him that he is quoting the net line when he should be quoting the gross line. In other words, he is knocking off the depreciation, whereas we are interested in the total spend-the gross line, which is much higher than the figures that he has inadvertently, I think, given the House in error.

Mr Meacher: How can the right hon. Gentleman believe that private investment will remotely compensate for this enormous fall in public sector net investment, given that household consumption is falling, particularly with the increase in VAT, the banks are not lending, and export markets are fading because of the situation in the eurozone? Why should the private sector invest in those circumstances?

Mr Redwood: That is what I have been explaining to the right hon. Gentleman. We are in this position because everything has been so awful. The private sector has just been through a couple of years when it has invested practically nothing because companies could not get any money and were not making much profit. Now, profit margins are growing, there is a bit more money around and they are getting more confident for the future.

It would be much better if Labour Members got behind their voters and constituents, who want the jobs that we wish to see created, got behind the recovery that everybody else is forecasting, and started to live in the real world. They presided over the collapse. Throughout their years in office, manufacturing fell, whereas in the Tory years before that, manufacturing rose. We want to get manufacturing rising again. From that point of view, the one good thing that they did was to preside over a collapse in the value of the pound. They probably allowed it to collapse a bit too much, and it is beginning to rise again under the new Government. That gives those in manufacturing a huge opportunity to make better profit margins, to invest more money, and to produce more. That is exactly what they are beginning to do, and there will be a beneficial effect.

Owen Smith: In the light of what the right hon. Gentleman suggests about manufacturing, is he not worried when he sees the prediction in the Deloitte manufacturing index that over the next five years our manufacturing will decline, not grow, and that we will shift from our admittedly low position of 17th on that index to 20th?

Mr Redwood: A shift in the relative position predicted by someone else does not necessarily mean that manufacturing is going to decline. The figures in the official forecast, and I think in most sensible forecasts outside, show that manufacturing will recover from the very low base that it reached in 2009-10. That is what is needed, and we need to have policies that do just that.

Mr Meacher rose-

Mr Love rose-

Mr Redwood: I am going to conclude, because many people wish to participate in this debate. Labour Members may want to be here until 3 o’clock in the morning, but they never used to when they were in the dock and did not allow us the time to debate these things properly.

The Budget is a necessary evil to clear up the mess inherited from the previous Government. This is a necessary task to instil confidence and to avoid interest rates going through the roof. Labour Members should look at what has happened in Ireland. Ireland had extremely big cuts-bigger, I am pleased to say, than those in this Budget. In the last quarter, the Irish economy started to grow extremely well, which is exactly what Labour Members are predicting cannot happen if one starts to get control of public spending.

I urge the Government and the whole public sector to work strongly together to ensure that these modest increases in cash spending translate into maintained and improved public services, as they can if we take the right action over pay rates, efficiency levels, improved process, investment in technology and so forth. I hope that we will get the banks working better by creating a more competitive environment so that we can then have the investment we need in the private sector to fill the gap and create the jobs. This is a doable task and a feasible profile, and it is backed by the independent forecaster. We need to be very sure that we are going to pump everything into that task, because recovery is what we all want.

Mr Gove’s problem

Michael Gove was right to apologise yesterday. When he made his statement to the Commons about Building Schools for the Future he should have shared with us the list of projects affected. Where his Labour predecessors might well have tried to “bury bad news” without volunteering a statement, he correctly appeared, but unfortunately did not share all he knew. He made a fulsome apology, and took full responsibility for mistakes made by others as well as himself.

He now, however, has two other problems not covered by his misjudgement about what to say and not to say in the original statement. The first is the failure of his department and the associated quangos to provide him with accurate lists of the schools covered by the Schools for the future programme. Given the huge sums spent on the bureaucracy of these building schemes, and the generous staffing of his department and the related quangos, it is predictable but worrying that they could not supply the boss with a simple list of all the schools under the programme, and with a related schedule of which ones were currently approved for building and which were not.

This should be a timely reminder or wake up call for all Ministers. The levels of administrative and advisory competence are not always as high as they need when running a busy department. The Minister himself has to check the detail and insist on higher quality work. All the extra spending and recruitment of the Labour years has not created a more competent administration.

The second is the presentation of what the government is doing. In the statement I heard Michael Gove make he was clear in saying he was cancelling the approach of Building Schools for the future because it was an expensive, long winded and inefficient way of building schools. He did not say he was cancelling all new schools building. Indeed, if he is right and he can save substantial sums on the box ticking detailed regulatory approach of the old programme this could leave him with more moeny to spend on bricks and mortar. This message has got entirely lost in the broadcasts and newspaper stories about cuts, leading most people to think there will now be no new schools.

This needs turning round as quickly as possible. According to the figures the Coaliton government is going to spend as much on new capital projects as the outgoing Labour government. In that case they might end up building more schools than Labour for the same amount of money if Mr Gove is right about how to do it more cheaply. I asked him what savings he expected from stopping the BSF approach. He said he would write to me with the answer. The sooner I get that letter the sooner he can tell the country about the waste that is being eliminated and the extra money that should then be available for bricks and mortar.

Creativity not confrontation

Ministers would be wise to tone down the rhetoric of massive cuts. They need to mobilise, energise and reform the public services. Labour made clear in their marathon moan in the Commons yesterday into the early hours of this morning that they are out to talk the economy down, highlight alleged huge cuts in jobs and services and campaign with the Unions against sensible change. The government needs to be smart and careful in its choice of words to bring about the improvements in quality and performance needed.

This morning I am talking to the wider share ownership movement. We need to encourage new types of public service, where former state employees take on running their own public service. We need to offer participation in Third sector solutions to public service problems, and to use more companies to help deliver what we need.

The British debate is dogged by such a narrow definition of public service. To Labour a public service has to have state employees delivering a service free to users at the point of use through monopoly provision. Public monopoly can so often stifle innovation and give us the high costs of monopoly rather than the economies of scale. To me the provision of the daily bread, milk and newspaper is as much a public service as the local library or refuse collection. We need in each case to ask how can the public service be best delivered, where state money is involved, and find that right combination of companies, charities and direct employment which delivers the best answer. Often the popular feature of current public sector provision is being free at the point of use, which the government is pledged to keep, more than the method of delivery.

There are good people in state employment who would like the opportunity to run their own school, organise their own bit of public service, seek to do things better than they have been allowed to do under the top down state directed model of the last government. Labour last night showed in the debate they have learned nothing about to how to modernise and improve public service, still seeing it in a narrow partisan and ideological way. The one thing they are good at is running a strongly worded opposition to all change that might benefit us with better and better value public service.

How much are we spending on bricks and mortar?

On the Today programme this morning we debated the impact of public spending changes on the construction industry.
I argued that according to the Office of Budget Responsibility – and most private sector forecasts – overall investment in the economy is forecast to increase every year to 2015 from next year. Business investment will rise substantially, investment in housing somewhat, whilst public capital investment will fall until 2013 and then will start to rise again. The total figures are:

Investment
2009 – 14.9%
2010 -0.5%
2011 +3.9%
2012 +7.9%
2013 +8.8%
2014 +8.0%
2015 +6.9%

Total growth in investment 2010-15 40%
Total growth in investment 2009-15 19%

I am glad to say the others accepted that total investment is likely to go up over the next few years. They concentrated on falling capital expenditure in the public sector. The BBC’s Economics correspondent said that public capital investment was going to fall from £38.9 billion in 2010-11 to a low of £19.9 billion in 2013-14, before starting to rise again.

I said the departmental captial spending limits showed capital spending at £51.6 billion this year, falling to a low of £37 billion in 2013-14 before rising again. I could have used the gross public sector investment figures, which show spending of £59.5 billion this year, down to £43.3 billilon in 2013-14, before rising again.

The difference is important. The BBC figures are net of depreciation. In other words they take away from the amount spent an estimate of the losses on exisiting buildings and equipment from wear and tear and old age. This is not a cash item. It is an entirely notional figure. Their figures do incidentally show that despite the cuts the stock of government capital continues to rise.

The correct figures to use to assess construction output are the gross figures. This is the amount of money the public sector spends on capital spending, raised from taxs or borrowings. It is spent on new buildings and equipment.

The Generation game

I promised David Willetts I would review his book “The Pinch” . The sub title tells the story – “How the baby boomers took their childrens future – and why they should give it back”.

My first reaction was that he is wrong. His case that the baby boomers have amassed so much wealth in houses and pensions that they have made life difficult for their children seemed to miss the obvious point that the baby boomer’s children will benefit from their parents wealth. David argues that baby boomers have pushed house prices beyond the reach of too many young people, but surprisingly few children inherit homes because the baby boomers go on to spend the value of their home on a good time or later on care in old age. Yet I meet children whose parents pay their home deposit, children who inherit their parents’ homes, and younger people who work in the businesses and care homes that the elderly are spending their money on. One way or another the wealth of the older generation has to find its way into the pockets of the younger generation. You cannot take your wealth with you on death. Parents often remain very generous to their children long into their childrens’ adulthood. If they spend it on themselves instead, those younger people in work get some of the benefit.

My second reaction is he is right in one very important respect. The baby boomer generation has been very selfish when it comes to public spending. It was on the watch of those quintessential baby boomers, Blair and Brown, that the UK public accounts were trashed comprehensively. The baby boomers in power wanted to spend, spend, spend. The bills they have left will fall more to their children to repay than to themselves. The baby boomers treated themselves to a great party in office, and have left the bills to the generations that follow on as Ministers and taxpayers. Under Blair /Brown we were all plunged into debt to the tune of £50,000 a head if you take into account the unfunded pensions, the PP/PFI and the bank liabilities ther state took on. The state debts the boomers incurred remain for others to settle. The private debts of the boomers die with them, usually covered by the assets they also leave.

The baby boomers were not as bad as David implies. They avoided the ruinous European wars which killed so many and did so much damage to British power and wealth in the twentieth century. The boomers did not send their children under compulsion to fight. The generation of leaders who took us into the Great War of 1914-18 have more to answer for than the baby boomers. The presence of US power on European soil cemented the good intentions of the new European continental democracies not to fight each other after 1945.

The baby boomers have presided over a huge surge in income and wealth creation through their enthusiaism for the consumer and digital revolutions. It is good news that on their watch poverty in the west has been redefined from not having enough food and clothing, to not owning a car and some of the consumer durables most now take for granted.

As a keen advocate of wider ownership I agree with David in disliking the way in the last decade progress to better funded pensions for all has been aborted by the tax and regulatory raids on the pension funds. I also agree that we need to make home buying easier for the up and coming. That requires a different approach to banks and credit, as has often been described on this blog.

David’s book is thought provoking and informative. It reminds us that government decisions are often about transfers of income and wealth between the generations, seeking to help the young and the old from the taxes of the middle aged. It is a good idea to look at the wider issue of transfers between the generations and see the willing transfers that occur as well as the compulsory ones. I recommend it to readers as a useful quarry of information about social change and the Generational tussles.

Job losses and redundancies

Labour is out campaigning against 1.3 million alleged public sector job losses and compulsory redundancies. The government needs to put the record straight promptly before this camapign gets out of hand.

The official figure for job reductions in the puboic sector over the next five years is 600,000 according to the Office of Budget responsibility. This is around 10% of the public sector total. As 300,000 or so leave the public service every year you could save 600,000 with no compulsory redundancies at all. Where quangoes and offices are being closed down the employees could be offered something else elsehwere in the large public sector, as jobs become vacant.

Labour’s figure is 1.3 million or 20%. Over five years that is around the likely level of departures, but as far as Labour are concerned would entail redundancies as well. This figure is made up. The leak to the Guardian of “secret Treasury figures” was a leak of wrong Treasury figures. There is no secret plan to sack more than the OBR forecast. The OBR figure remains the best forecast. We can calculate a more accurate figure once we have seen the autumn spending round conclusion. That will depend on the balance between benefit bill reductions and the rest.

The government needs to be careful how it presents all this. Getting too many of your staff offside too soon when you need them to help you change the way public service is delivered would not be a good idea. They need to stamp on Labour’s attempts to whip up the public sector Unions.

40% cuts?

I hear Danny Alexander has asked each department to tell him how they might cut 40% from their budgets – save the ring fenced departments.

I suppose it’s a useful starter to the conversation he needs to have with each to settle their figure for next year. I am not sure it is so useful to have people condemning such savage cuts, when the totals in the budget tell us there is no need to cut anything that matters by 40% or anything like that figure. The totals show spending going up every year in cash terms for five years. That hasn’t changed. There is so much newspaper space being wasted over the cuts that will never be. Please leakers spare us the parade of the bleeding stumps in public. It’s such a stupid old hat way of conducting a review of public spending.

Regulating banks so we do get an economic recovery

The politics of bashing banks is good. They are widely blamed for the last collapse. The people who regulated them, and the Central Banks who set interest rates and rushed from boom to bust with the money supply have escaped much of the blame. Many of the commercial banks’ Directors and senior executives earned too much money for most people’s stomachs, and then had the temerity to carry on paying themselves bonuses after the crash. Some banks profits have roared back strongly after the losses of 2008-9, whilst taxpayers remain sandbagged by the worst debts.

Against such a mood and armed with such lopsided analysis it is popular for governments to demand controls on bonuses, taxes on profits, and require banks to hold more cash and capital. The first of these does not seem to work, the second will reduce banks cash flow as they try to rebuild their cash and capital positions, and the third will cut their lending.

The sad truth is, whether the politicians hate them or loathe them, we need the banks and we need them to finance a recovery. Some bloggers say they do not want more credit to be extended. I have to tell them, without more credit there will be little growth and fewer new jobs. Some critics say businesses do not want to borrow more money, because they do not enjoy the demand for their products. They should note just how strong growth is elsewhere in the world, and how there are already shortages of product at home in the UK early in the cycle. We do need UK business to make more here to susbtitute for imports,and to export to faster growing countries. That requires working capital and investment finance.

The world’s governments and regulators genuflect to the idea that they should switch from pro cyclical regulation to counter cyclical regulation. They now accept, looking back, that in the upswing in 2005-7 they reinforced the credit boom by relaxing controls, and in the downswing, 2007-9, they reinforced the fall by being tougher. So why can’t they now agree that this is still somewhere near the bottom of the cycle? Isn’t this the time to say we have done enough to rebuild the cash and capital of most banks? The UK Tier One ratios now average around 12%, well above the levels of 2006-7, and good enough for the first phase of the upswing.

The sad truth is governments have to allow banks to make more profit to rebuild their reserves and pay off past losses. It will not make either the banks or the governments popular, as people resent bank charges and interest rate premia. It is however essential to get a well financed recovery. If we had more competition in the UK banking the charges would be lower and the costs better controlled. A lack of sufficient competition leads to high bonuses and high salaries.

It’s time for regulators to say, job done for the time being. They should look again at the adequacy of cash and capital once we’ve had some growth.

Change the banks if you want economic recovery

When Ken Clarke was Chancellor he was lucky. He took over after all the difficult decisions had been put in place by Norman Lamont to get the then deficit under control. Reducing the deficit was a necessary but not sufficient condition for recovery. He took over when world trade and the world economy were going well, and the British banks were able to lend. As a result the economy grew well and the deficit shrank.

George Osborne has to do the same on a bigger scale. He needs to make his own luck. He has done the difficult thing, setting out a new path to cut the deficit. He now needs to make it more lilely the private sector will grow as fast as is needed to do the rest. World trade and the western economies cnanot be relied on to grow as quickly as we would like given the state of Euroland and the wobbles in the US. Meanwhile the UK banking system is not delivering the cash and credit to UK industry and comnmerce that it needs to be more confident and to put in more capacity.

The government needs to make changes to the banking industry to ensure more competitive credit is available to finance recovery. It will not wish to pre-empt the important Vickers review of retail and investment banking, by expressing a view on whether the two should be split. It could conclude now that the UK retail banking market is not competitive enough and start to do something about it. We need the banks to deliver more now, not in two years time.

I have two suggestions. The first is to hold a competition for new banking licences for suitable companies and consortia to aply for, to give a push to the rumours that there are people and businesses wanting to set up as banks. They can apply anytime anyway, but it would show the government is keen and will listen with their Regulators to the needs of the wannabes to get something going.

The second is to package up two, three or four UK retail banks from within the RBS and Lloyds/HBOS empires for sale. These conglomerate banks hold many brands and franchises, ranging from Nat West and Halifax to Lombard, Cheltenham and Gloucester and Birmingham Midshires. Some of these have been fully integrated, others still have some independent identity wthin the global banks. It would be possible to make up a package of branches, assets and liabilities in each case, sell them on to the market with a new quote, and raise new capital to give them growing room at the same time.

The UK needs say five new banks with starting capital of say £5 billion each, allowing them to establish a combined balance sheeet of say a conservative £200 billion. That would allow a useful injection of new cash into suitable UK business projects. We have a more competitive pound, lots of empty buildings and plenty of unemployed labour. We need the cash to get it back to work.

How a Prime Minister loses his job

The outgoing PM in Australia serves as a warning to incumbents. If you combine unpopular climate change legislation with a big tax increase, you lose your job. The legislation was defeated, and the tax increase on mining has now been abated.