The EU now threatens the Republic of Ireland with a hard border

A desperate EU now says it will impose a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The UK should carry on with its  plans for no hard border controls when we leave the EU and the customs union which it has set out in published papers.  We need not impose any new barriers on the UK side of the border. Will the EU really insist on them on the Republic side? They would be wise to work with the UK to ensure good arrangements on both sides  of the border.

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194 Comments

  1. Sarah
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    We can conclude that the EU does not wish to work with the UK on anything and in some cases is not entirely in charge of the agenda of the 27.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:11 am | Permalink

      The EU seems determined to act against the interests of the 27.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:42 am | Permalink

        UBER seem to have lost their appeal court case against making the drivers potentially employees. Why are our courts so daft and determined to damage productivity and the gig economy in this absolutely moronic way? It is hugely damaging to business confidence in the UK as was the absurd tribunal fees ruling. The government needs to intervene and change the law. Then again the courts so often just rewrite it anyway (to make it more the interest of lawyers rather than the public usually). Doubtless why we have nearly 20 times the number of lawyers as in Japan.

        • Anonymous
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

          And 20 times the number of unproductive young men as Japan.

          Especially as driverless cars are coming. Don’t encourage non-UK tax paying Uber to load up our welfare system with future liabilities and a Labour voting non-workforce, you welfare-to-landlord parasite.

          • Anonymous
            Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

            The prosecution submits that the defendant has a vested interest in a population trapped in the *gig* economy just about able to afford rents but otherwise able to pay mortgages were it not for the inability to save for deposits.

            Sorry. But this is a surefire way to a Corbyn government.

            Renter = Labour voter.

          • Lifelogic
            Posted November 11, 2017 at 6:46 am | Permalink

            There is nothing parasitic about being a landlord, anymore than a business that runs hotels, rents out cars, planes, trucks, aircraft or anything else. Do you want no properties available to rent?

          • Anonymous
            Posted November 11, 2017 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

            Lifelogic 6.46 – You are taking out of circulation properties that would make owner-residents less welfare dependant in the future and turning them into Labour voters.

            The Uberist/gig increase in population works to your advantage as it creates a supply of renters.

        • Original Richard
          Posted November 11, 2017 at 10:55 am | Permalink

          Uber enables and encourages the immigration of enormous numbers of low paid workers who will become redundant when driverless cars arrive whilst in the meantime clogging our streets with additional traffic and pollution.

          It is also a tax avoidance scheme.

      • Hope
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

        So did Cameron negotiate the £7 billion loan to Ireland or with the EU? Remember Cameron told us the UK would not be involved in bail outs. The UK helped Greece and then loaned Ireland money. JR, if the is an extension is the UK still on the hook? This is relevant as there are many basket cases in the EU.

        Secondly, we read Davis has made no demands on what share of EU assets the U.K. is entitled to. Will this be deducted from the proposed two year contribution? May said she did not want the EU or any country to be worse off, that should include the U.K and be at the forefront of her mind- although I doubt she thought that about her citizens she is representing.

        • Timaction
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

          We don’t have any representation, particularly indigenous English people. Never hear about our rights or the EU’s obligations or why should EU immigrants have greater rights than us or other immigrants practising parallel legal systems and illegal practices?
          No, always double standards when judgements are made and EVERYONE now knows the legacies duplicity!

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

        “They (the EU) would be wise to work with the UK to ensure good arrangements” – that would be a first then if it happens.

  2. Ian Wragg
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    As Yaroufacis? said. The EU doesn’t negotiate it makes demands.
    Even remainiacs must begin to see the rotten heart of the EU.
    Why would anyone want to belong to such an undemocratic organisation.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:37 am | Permalink

      Self interest..

      • NickC
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:52 am | Permalink

        Rien, It certainly isn’t in Germany’s interests because Germany exports far more to the UK, even allowing for population differences, than we export to Germany, both absolutely and in percentage terms.

        The only beneficiaries are the phalanx of un-elected politicians and bureaucrats on the EU’s central apparatchik. They are protecting their gravy-train at EU countries’ expense.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

          It takes time and hard work before one is able to draw correct conclusions from raw trade figures. You will be surprised how many BMWs will be sold in England, even after a punitive tariff. All a hard brexit will achieve is consumer price inflation, lower real wages and a slow death of foreign owned manufacturing. But it that is the people’s choice so be it. Someone will eat the cake the UK does not like.

          • NickC
            Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

            Rien, I notice you don’t actually address the points I made. The tariffs we impose will be decided by us. It is highly likely that our tariffs will be lower than yours, making your goods more expensive here, but compensated by lower Rest of World prices. Net effect would be zero for our consumers, but a hit for EU sales.

      • Hope
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

        JR, this should also be discussed in relation to intelligence, security and defence cooperation. As I have said many times before, May should not give this away for nothing in return. The Irish border should be part of that negotiation, not stupid comments that the UK will continue whatever the outcome. Again, what sort of negotiation is this knowing that the EU is trying to use the Irish border as a negotiation blackmail?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:00 am | Permalink

      The remainiacs say that it is all the fault of the UK and the EU is blameless, and David Davis is content to see them win a one-sided propaganda war day after day.

      • Timaction
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

        Indeed. I don’t know how much longer this one sided dictatorial exchange can go on. It’s like a Headteacher demanding more from a miscreant pupil. He really needs to grow some or get get out of the way and let someone with courage, intelligence, leadership and PATRIOTISM take over.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:44 am | Permalink

      Well Clegg all the Libdims, Ken Clark, Soubry, Hammond and about half the current Tory MPs and many in the Cabinet clearly would.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

      @ Ian Wragg

      Why would anyone want to belong to such an undemocratic organisation.

      Sadly for the real people of this country they are:

      Incompetent. Ignorant. Arrogant. Proud to flaunt all these skills on the BBC at every opportunity. Why David Davis and his department let them get away with it day in and day out is beyond comprehension.

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:04 am | Permalink

      Says a citizen of a country that has an unelected head of state, house of lords, unelected judiciary, and an unelected civil service that runs the country.

  3. Rob Jump
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    If the Irish are stupid enough to tolerate the EU wrecking their economy then so be it. I would consider my options very carefully if it was me.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:44 am | Permalink

      They should leave too.

    • Richard1
      Posted November 11, 2017 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      Hardly fair. Ireland has had huge net transfers from the EU, you can hardly blame them for accepting these with alacrity.

  4. alan jutson
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Well what a surprise !

    Did anyone really think there would not be some sort of hard Border between these two area’s, given one is in the EU and the other is not.

    Too much opportunity to evade taxes and tariffs.

  5. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    I think the way this can work is:

    ROI TO NI AND NI TO ROI = DUTY FREE
    EU TO rUK AND rUK TO EU = DUTIABLE

    NI/ROI TO rUK = DUTIABLE
    rUK TO NI/ROI = DUTY FREE
    EU TO NI/ROI = DUTY FREE
    NI/ROI TO EU DUTIABLE

    So NI and to some extent ROI become a “special area” – we agree not to set up a customs post on the ROI/NI border, EU same on the NI/ROI border.
    ROI/EU agrees not to set up a border for our exports to NI/ROI,
    UK, rEU each set up customs for incoming goods from NI/ROI.

    NI/ROI both get special status within their respective trading areas.

    Everybody happy?

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

      I think the Unionists (who are currently propping up a minority government) may have something to say.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

        They might like duty frees from both UK and EU

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

      Excellent

      1. So logical
      2. So practical
      3. So simple
      4. So user-friendly
      5. So equitable

      Will never work!

      Politicians will kill this idea stone dead! They can’t have your obviously neat solution implemented. It would “not” cause confusion!

    • Rob King
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

      The ROI won’t want duty payable on their exports to the EU

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

        Quid pro quo is duty free trade from both UK and EU, also to NI

  6. Bert Young
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    This move by the EU is pure blackmail and will probably result in the Irish pulling out . The EU realise that if there is equanimity between N and S Ireland it will destroy their efforts to punish us .

  7. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    I don’t think that the Irish want chorinated chickens smuggeld into their territory.
    The UK is delusional (IMHO) if it thinks that it can be a WTO-tariff (free!) thrid country and not have a visible border with the EU.

    • Pierre
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      Exactly. Again, Redwood seems surprised that leaving the EU has consequences!

      • Jagman84
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

        Standing up to a bully always has consequences. But it needs to be done. Personally, I would turn the whole of Northern Ireland into a tax haven and really watch the feathers fly. A low-tax, high-tech economy is just what they need. It would also be a reward for DUP support towards Brexit.

        • eeyore
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

          It’s what Lord Palmerston would have done. Alas, Mrs May is no Palmerston. But what fun just to make the threat!

        • Fedupsoutherner
          Posted November 11, 2017 at 7:00 am | Permalink

          Great idea Jagman

    • ian wragg
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:46 am | Permalink

      Well it’s up to the EU to build it and staff it.
      I do believe now Ireland will become a net contributor the gloss will have worn off the EU and they may be the next to leave.
      I think about 85% of their trade is with the UK and they wouldn’t want to jeopardise that.
      We are not delusional about anything Peter. I think you are if you think Brexit will be halted.

      • Hope
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

        Totally agree Ian. If the Irish want a hard border, no trade with the UK good luck to their economy. Ireland wanted o borrow £7 billion recently. GFY springs to mind.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:56 am | Permalink

      I don’t think the Irish will want to drink chlorinated water either.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:46 am | Permalink

        Nor swim in it!

      • rose
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

        Or eat chlorinated lettuce.

        • Hope
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

          Or EU horse meat in beef burgers!

          • rose
            Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

            Or infected pork and eggs.

          • rose
            Posted November 11, 2017 at 11:43 am | Permalink

            Or contaminated olivc oil passed by ccorrupt inspectors.

    • Bert Young
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:22 am | Permalink

      Peter , the UK is not delusional . We are simply “Out” of the EU because we have had enough of disfunctional bureaucracy . Margaret Thatcher established our “no go” lines many years ago and Brussels has failed to put its house in order since then . Obviously there will be a knock-on effect to your country and I regret this , however , the sooner the consequences are felt , the sooner the better .

    • Nig l
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:22 am | Permalink

      Talk about scraping the barrel, we are now down to using chlorinated chickens to support your argument. What utter rubbish, no doubt Peter the next threat will be plagues of locusts etc.

      What you don’t understand Peter is choice because if people don’t eat them, no one will import them, so no need for regulation. It is called a free market, something you do not understand.

      Incidentally what’s wrong with them? Presumably umpteen Americans eat them without any ill effects.

      Take your EU nannying elsewhere.

    • R.De Witt Jansen
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:45 am | Permalink

      PVL: neither do WE want your contaminated eggs! We can do without your daffs and whilst we are about it your cheese is not that good. One day soon you will pay for our fish not freeload it.

    • Chris
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

      I suspect many of the Irish, like many Britons, would rather not have salmonella, campylobacter etc ridden chickens, an all too frequent consequence of factory farming/intensive rearing of poultry, but instead have poultry which has been chlorine washed to rid it of risks of contamination and spread of disease.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 7:02 am | Permalink

        Quite right Chris

    • Tabulazero
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

      Very true. John Redwood does not seem to understand that there might be an interest for the EU to defend the Single-Market. The British proposal is nonsensical and it is not the EU which is leaving after all.

      Please stop asking to resolve the mess Brexiters have brought themselves. Clean your own backside.

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

        Tabulazero

        Our government is defending the UK citizens interests, not the EU’s!

        For your edification the trade gap between the UK and the EU is huge!

        As with so many aspects of the UK’s relationship with the EU, the truth is really rather shocking.

        For the EU27 to sell almost £96+bn more goods to the UK than the UK sold to the EU27 last year is simply staggering – or it would be if we were not all so acclimatized to this situation.

        The point that is being made, the benefit the EU27 are getting from the UK’s membership of the EU each year is not marginal – it’s staggeringly gargantuan!

        And to top it all off, the UK pays an enormous Club membership fee to the tune of circa net £9+ Billion per year to reap the “non” benefits from this extremely profligate “unaccountable” club…thank you, but we can well do without this inequitable relationship!

        Incidentally, we are looking forward to wiping the residual EU excrement from our backsides after 2019…though, like many in the UK, we wish to do it now, to save our money being wasted and move to WTO; then we can see who benefits most?

      • getahead
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

        Tabulazero, have you any idea what you are talking about because no-one else has?

    • stred
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

      Peter.It would be preferable to eat a chicken washed with chlorinated water if the choice was a Dutch chicken washed with insecticide. How many did you have to bury recently? Isn’t it time you started raising pigs in sheds to British standards too?

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 7:06 am | Permalink

        Stored. Yes, I don’t buy Dutch bacon anymore due to poor standards with animal husbandry. I buy from a local source where I can see the animals are treated well. The Dutch can stick their bacon where the sun don’t shine and I’m not talking about the tortuous pig sheds either.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

      PVL

      Thank you for your input!

      Though it must be rather galling that most individuals on here, recognise a Remainer provocateur when they read one?

      However, please keep up the amusing anti-Brexit rhetoric…this simply reinforces the correct decision to leave the duplicitous EU!

    • libertarian
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

      PvL etc

      The EU and its fan club have got to be just about the dumbest people on the planet.

      They refused to negotiate with Cameron

      So we vote to leave

      They are imposing strife on Republic of Ireland

      RoI will be next to leave ( the 2 biggest importers of Irish goods/services are USA & UK )

      They refuse to negotiate a free trade deal with UK so WTO will show the 26 left that they are wasting their time with the EU

      The EU single market is a myth , it doesn’t exist for majority of economic activity

      Germany has completely failed to meet its CO2 emission targets ( the USA & UK are the 2 best countries in world for meeting targets)

      The EU has become a prime terrorist target from within

      You are going to be eaten alive yet STILL you let this unelected rabble of failed small time clerks run your club for you….. You are laughable

    • Terry Mushroom
      Posted November 11, 2017 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      Why this obsession with buying chicken?

      I note the increasing popularity of vegetarianism in its varieties.

    • Robert Betteridge
      Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

      Last week I bought a small chicken in Sainsbury’s, it was £2.60 and lasted two of us for three days, with a bit of spare in a risotto for lunch on day 4 & 5, That works out at 32.5 pence per meal. If chlorinated chicken is cheaper than that I’ll give it a try. I would be surprised if there was a massive saving to be had, but if there was it would be my choice to make it.
      It puzzles my why a “choice” can be vilified.

  8. Duncan
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    The UK is one of the most prosperous and powerful nations on earth. We should not allow ourselves to be bullied and intimated by these crooks in Brussels. Nor should be allow them to interfere in our relations with one of our closest neighbours

    How dare they think they can treat us with contempt

    We have allies across Europe but we have enemies within the EU and indeed in the UK whose political ambitions are becoming a threat to democracies across Europe

    • Tabulazero
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

      Cause the days of the Empire are over and 44 years of “red lines” and “normal rules should not apply to us” tend to dent your goodwill ?

      Plus, let’s not forget the “they need us more than we need them” and the “we will divide them and run circles around them with our dazzling diplomacy” did not do you much favors.

      Sorry.

      • Anonymous
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

        Tabulazero

        Firstly, you dwell too much on the supposed nationalism of the English. We are among the most self deprecating of peoples – which is good, bearing in mind the performances of our football team. The numbers beating their path to our country prove our sense of fairness and hospitality.

        Instead of taking this out on immigrees we have protested against the high powers of the EU.

        None of us remember the Empire and few of us have been taught it except in terms of shame. I certainly was.

      • getahead
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

        You can be as sorry as you like. We are still leaving.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

      “The UK is one of the most prosperous and powerfulk nations on earth” Forgotten Mrs Thatcher needed to beg Mr Reagan for gis permission during the Falklands war? The UK is, like every other NATO country, a client state. And fortunately our patron is benevolent. As to prosperity: look around and compare..

      • Peter Gledhill
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 7:55 am | Permalink

        Actually, that is not true. We asked Reagan for an updated Sidewinder missile for the Harrier as a favour. The decision to send a military task force was our decision alone.

      • James Matthews
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

        If you were right it then there would be an obvious question to be answered. Which nation would you rather be a client of? One that shares your language and has the same origins for its legal system as you, which arrived at more democracy earlier than almost any other nation in the world, which does not demand automatic and unfettered access for its citizens and those of associated nations nor invite millions of “refugees” into its territory and then expect to foist them on to its neighbours, or one that has none of those characteristics?

        Here is a clue. The answer is not Germany.

        As to prosperity, we are the second largest contributor to EU funding. If that does not indicate that we are doing relatively well amongst European nations it is further proof, if any were needed, that we are right to leave.

        Incidentally, BMW’s are good, but not that good. No doubt some people will pay over the odds for them, most will have more sense.

  9. Pat
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    We could of course make it clear to the Irish that should they choose independence they will have tarrif free access to British markets. They will then have options.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:39 am | Permalink

      Ireland fought for its independence. Maybe you forgot.

      • James Matthews
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:37 am | Permalink

        No, we haven’t forgotten. That is why it is so weird that it has surrendered it to the EU.

      • NickC
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:58 am | Permalink

        Rien, So did we. Maybe you forget?

      • Pat
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

        They have it as far as we are concerned. If they want independence from the EU we should offer our support. If not we should accept their decision. Including if they decide to erect a hard border.

      • Bob
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

        @Rien Huizer
        Pat was referring to independence from Brussels.
        They haven’t fought for that yet.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

          James. NickC, Pat and Bob,

          Did I forget anyone? Irish independence is usually associated with the foundation of the Republic. The EU is not occupying Ireland, like England was, right? Not quite on topic anymore so go home and be ashamed. Irish independence and what happened before it was, with the Boer War, about the least impressive episode in UK , sorry, English history.

          • Yossarion
            Posted November 11, 2017 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

            England never occupied Ireland, The Normans did using the good name of England. In 2066 there will have been 1000 year Reich, time it was ended.

      • Norseraider
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

        Maybe it needs to again?

  10. Spinflight
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    The common travel area precedes the EU’s treaties by many decades.

    Hence has precedence.

    This is the EU’s problem, not our or even Irelands ( unless they decide to revoke the CTA).

    Amusingly it will likely require treaty change on their part.

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

      The Republic of Ireland and the UK joined the EEC as was on the same day. There has never been a situation in the past where one part of the common travel area has been inside and one has been outside. The fact that there will be in the future is the UK’s doing.

  11. rose
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Aren’t they really trying to annexe Northern Ireland but keep the arrangement whereby we pay and Southern Ireland doesn’t?

  12. Bob
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Brussels is looking increasingly desperate by the day. They have mobilised all of their sleepers within the UK establishment to derail Brexit.

    R4 Toady this morning had the usual non stop rant of anti Brexit propaganda. I switched the radio off when they announced the next guest would be Gordon Brown.

    Now they want to recruit celebrities to sell themselves to the young and gullible http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/eu-must-recruit-celebrities-win-hearts-minds-brexit-says-jean/

    When you have to work so hard to sell your product, maybe it’s not the salesman but rather the product that needs changing.

    • NickC
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:57 am | Permalink

      Rien, So did we. Maybe you forget?

    • NickC
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

      Bob, good points. Though I think the EU is a bit behind the times (as always). Celebrities are not so admired as they once were. It’s not just that the Celebs told us to vote against Leave, vote against Trump, and take in migrants (when they in their big houses don’t), it’s also that they helped to cover up sexual abuse in their own ranks, finally proving themselves to be sanctimonious hypocrites.

      • stred
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

        Spacey may be looking for work.

  13. am
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    looks like the uk position is strengthening and the eu’s weakening

  14. Oggy
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    I wonder what the Irish will make of a foreign government telling them what to do ? They didn’t like the British doing it which led to Irish independence. So are they just going to meekly roll over to the EU ?
    Perhaps an Irish in/out EU referendum is required to concentrate minds over in Brussels.

    • Atlas
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

      Oggy, I agree.

      It seems that having got their own independence the inhabitants of the RoI have surrendered it fully to the EU. Strange.

  15. Richard Bentall
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    You have always known that NI leaving the CU must result in a hard border; otherwise the EU would have no way of controlling the flow of good that do not meet their health and product standards. You were warned but did not care.

    Your ideological project is falling to dust. As the older people you conned into voting for Brexit die off, the young can increasingly see the chaos that you and your ilk have caused, damaging their opportunities for the future.. The only good news is that Brexit is destroying the Tory party. You will probably be out of power for a generation when this is all over.

    You are disgrace, whose delusional ranting has damaging our prospertity and is reducing the UK to insignificance on the world stage. Historians will judge you kindly.

    • ian wragg
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:50 am | Permalink

      Last sentence is correct. It is you who is a disgrace.

      • getahead
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

        And,of course, it is the European Union which is the ideological project, which we are in the process of escaping, thank the Lord.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      I think historians should judge JR kindly, he has a long record of patriotic resistance to the eurofederalist project. Whether or not that will be the case will depend on who wins this conflict and gets to write the history, patriots or people like you.

    • Mitchel
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:36 am | Permalink

      I don’t believe I have ever heard our host say or write something that could be described as a rant,your contribution on the other hand……..

    • NickC
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      Richard Bentall, For your comment to make any sense you would have to explain how the rest of the world manages to export to the EU, without being in it. And why it would be different for us.

    • Dominic Johnson
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

      Richard
      EUrope shouting “you made me do it” doesn’t make it true.

      The UK has no plans to build a wall

    • Jagman84
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

      If they gave out Knighthoods for services to pomposity, then you’d be Sir Richard. What a load of nonsense you spout. It bears little of no resemblance to the reality. The EU big-wigs are acting like spoilt children because we no longer wish to dance to their tune.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

      Sounds like you are angry because you were conned into voting Remain Stephen. Still waiting for those promised 500,000 job losses in the year immediately following a Leave vote ….. still waiting ….. still waiting …..

  16. Tabulazero
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Let the Northern Irish have a vote on whether they want to stay or not in the Single-Market.

    If Scotland can get a referendum, why can’t Northern Ireland on a technical matter.

    Northern Ireland will remain a part of the UK no matter what happens. The only difference is that it may have a special economic status.

    Surely you do not want to follow the bad example set by Spain you criticized so much, Mr Redwood ?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:50 am | Permalink

      Scotland has not had a vote on whether or not to stay in the EU Single Market and nor will it have any such vote. Nor will Wales or London or Kent have any such vote, we are in or out of it together. Not that it is any of your business.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

        What’s wrong all of a sudden with the “will of the people”, Denis ?

        You should not be afraid. The Northern Irish might want to stay with you after all. Why are you so pessimistic.

        Cheer up. Brexit Britain is doing fine… roughly as well as Greece actually.

        • libertarian
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

          Tabulazerobrain

          Oh dear If I where you I’d stop posting here as with each post you show your ignorance

          You equate Greece with UK

          Greece Unemployment 20.9 %

          UK Unemployment 4.3%

          Greece Youth Unemployment 52.4%

          UK Youth Unemployment 11.8%

          Greek Average Salary Euro 13104

          UK Average salary Euro 30920.06

          Greek wage growth -22% ( minus)

          UK wage growth 2.1%

          No wonder you want to remain, you’re not clever enough to work out the benefit of leaving

        • Anonymous
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

          Greece – stuffed by Germany … twice !

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:20 am | Permalink

          The referendum asked the British people as a whole to make a decision and that is what the British people as a whole have done. As for you, you are no part of that British people and it is not your business.

          • rose
            Posted November 11, 2017 at 11:51 am | Permalink

            And the single market is not about economic status. It is part of a political project which we have voted to leave.

    • Oggy
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      Let Ireland have an in out EU referendum. If Ireland leave the EU there won’t be a hard border with their largest trading partner will there ?

      • Oggy
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

        Oh sorry I forgot ! – the EU just tells Ireland to ‘re-do’ their referendums until they get the ‘right result’ – so not much point really.
        An example of EU democracy in action.

    • NickC
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      Tabulazero, There is no wall around Great Britain. Illegal migrants and goods arrive in GB all the time, and have done for centuries. Why is the NI border any different?

      There are laws and procedures to mitigate the effects of smuggling (for example, employers are obliged to confirm that their new employee has a right to work in the UK already). As much as they work now, they will work after we leave.

      As for complying with EU rules, the rest of the world manages and so can we.

    • Yossarion
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

      Let the English have vote as to whether they wish to stay in the UK, let alone the EUSSR

  17. Michael O'Sullivan
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    There will be no hard border on the island of Ireland so you had better get used to it. After 100 years of a political border scarring the land we are now not going to allow anyone erect an economic one

    • Oggy
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

      I trust your comments are directed at the EU and not the UK who have consistently said there won’t be a hard border on the UK side.

  18. michael mcgrath
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Sounds to me like the opening shots in the Irexit saga.
    Imagine that people travelling from Eire to the North have difficulty in leaving and then find themselves with easy and control free access to the UK
    Perhaps the EU will put up a wall and surveillance towers to prevent unauthorised exits? Exit visas?
    I seem to remember that this was tried before

  19. BOF
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    I do agree that the UK should not impose a hard border and if the EU tries to do so they may find a distinct lack of co-operation. After all there has been an open border since 1926.

    On a recent trip, for the first time I detected some disillusionment with the EU in Ireland and it would be a mistake for the EU to think that they will simply do as they are told!

    We may have to all have ID cards to control immigration after Brexit, but I will not be holding my breath as the new dud minister in charge of the Home Office is no better at bringing down migrant numbers than the failure that preceded her. How many hundreds of thousands have they ‘lost’?

    • Pontoon
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      It would be some maverick who bet on the Home Secretary lasting.

  20. Coin
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    The EU may have to deal with the IRA. Good luck!

  21. Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    The Single Market, which we are going to leave at 11 p.m. on 29th March 2019, has a carefully policed and controlled border. Nobody questions that.

    When we leave and become a third country, we will, of necessity, be outside that border.

    This is not news. It has been gradually evolving since the 1975 referendum where both Mr Heath and Mr Wilson lied about the political aspects of the “common market”.

    The problem – unless we join EFTA and stay in the EEA is insoluble – as perhaps M. Barnier and his backers knew all the time.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:44 am | Permalink

      Mike, for the umpteenth time: EFTA countries such as Norway are treated as third countries by the EU and being outside the EU they are also outside the EU Customs Union. Therefore even if it was a feasible option to join Norway and the other two countries in EFTA and then stay in the EEA like three of them we would still have the same kind of problems over our land border with the Irish Republic as Norway has over its long land border with Sweden. These are the facts, whatever you may read on a certain blog where the author has apparently gone off his head and has now reversed his longstanding previous support for withdrawal from the EU just because he is not getting his way over the process of withdrawal.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:29 am | Permalink

        the other three countries in EFTA

    • ian wragg
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:55 am | Permalink

      Say what you mean Mike. Unless we stay in the EU we can’t solve the problem. It’s not our problem it is Brussels. There has bee a soft border since 1926.

    • bigneil
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

      ” A carefully policed and controlled border “? – Is that the same border at Greece that had later been found to have let in at least 8 people ( who had crossed as “refugees” from Turkish shores) – – all with the same passport details? Now somewhere in Europe, probably waiting for their chance to blow a load of us to smithereens. . . Or could it have been where an Afghan, already deported from the UK TWICE, had been found here a third time, driving along a motorway, unlicensed and uninsured.

      Carefully Policed and controlled border? Thanks for the laugh.

    • Dan H.
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

      Carefully policed border, you say? This is the very same carefully policed border that hundreds of thousands of economic migrants and assorted chancers have been freely moving across for decades now, to the great irritation of countries that really do not want the aforesaid migrants transiting their countries.

      The EU does not have a particularly good border system. It isn’t a great force for peace and harmony, indeed a certain Mr Putin now regards it as a parade of powerless if rather noisy idiots, having tested its diplomatic powers and found them to lack any military backup. About all the EU is really good at is churning out vast amounts of bureaucracy and rules, and pushing paper around.

      Even this has been demonstrated to be powerless, when criminals added horsemeat to the food chain, falsifying paperwork as they did so. The dunderheaded EU bureaucrats apparently cannot conceive of the paperwork ever being wrong, so neglected to enforce their own rules.

      Frankly, the quicker we are free of these paper-worshipping cretins the better!

  22. Doug Powell
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Irexit?

  23. Gary C
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Good morning,

    Requesting the EU to be wise is one thing, expecting them to be wise is another thing. ;0)

    Anyway after constantly hearing the UK being abused by Irish politicians and media presenters on their Newstalk radio station I was stunned to hear Irish politician David Morris accusing us of abandoning them.

    It was they who fought for independence, it was they who have constantly sucked up to the EU, it was they who willingly took on the Euro and changed all their signage from MPH to KM’s, they can thank their own politicians for bullying them into giving away their sovereignty away to Brussels etc etc. (the list is endless)

    And who do they want to blame . . . . . . . . . . !

    Good morning,

    Requesting the EU to be wise is one thing, expecting them to be wise is another thing. ;0)

    Anyway after constantly hearing the UK being abused by Irish politicians and media presenters on their Newstalk radio station I was stunned to hear Irish politician David Morris accusing us of abandoning them.

    It was they who fought for independence, it was they who have constantly sucked up to the EU, it was they who willingly took on the Euro, changed all their signage from mph to km’s, they can thank their own politicians for bullying them into giving away their sovereignty away to Brussels etc etc.

    And who do they want to blame . . . . . . . . . . Time for Ireland to take a step back and take a hard look at itself.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/877625/Brexit-news-Ireland-UK-EU-talks-Germany-France-Brussels-european-union-video

    • Gary C
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      Oop’s !

  24. agricola
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    A sure sign that they, the EU, are vindictive and getting very worried. It would not surprise me if Ireland decided that they too have had enough of this inward looking socialist experiment that is showing signs of ultimate disintegration. I do not know what the Irish think but for me they would be a welcome addition to the Commonwealth. Despite the “Troubles” of the last century they have been a net contributor to the UK, more so than any EU nation I can think of.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:44 am | Permalink

      A welcome addition to the Commonwealth?

      • agricola
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

        Yes a voluntary association of like minded countries that believe in and practise democracy. A democracy that has evolved within the DNA of all UK citizens over the past five hundred years. It is that same Commonwealth along with the USA that has pulled Europe’s arse out of the fire twice in the last century. Many citizens of Ireland were also involved in the same process as volunteers in the British military. In the last seventy years many European countries have set forth on the road to democracy, but based on the interpretation of the EU they still have a long way to go both in understanding it and it’s application.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

          I remember once meeting a Commander Sweeney in the village of Crosshaven, near Cork sighing:” I fought 25 years for the ennemy..” How is that?

    • Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      Socialist experiment ???

      Are you living in reality, the EU is neoliberal to the core. There’s nothing socialist about it.

      Just read this recent report from the Corporate Europe Observatory (CEO) – Open doors for forces of finance – published October 3, 2017

      https://corporateeurope.org/sites/default/files/attachments/open_door_for_forces_of_finance_report.pdf

      The major issue that the CEO Report highlights is the 22 “advisory groups” that the ECB maintains. They have “517 representatives from 144 different entities: either corporations, companies or associations, mainly trade associations.”

      The Report shows the Top 10 seats are held by 16 financial companies on the advisory groups. All groups but one are completely dominated by financial corporations, and the number of seats taken by the private financial sector is an astonishing 98 per cent (508 out of 517).

      Why on earth do you think the neoliberal media in this country wants us to stay ?

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:50 am | Permalink

        The EU is one size fits all, profoundly anti-democratic, top down, big government, climate alarmist socialism in nearly every respect – it does not work and will not work.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

          One learns a lot on this blog. Thank you

      • agricola
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

        Yes the EU operates much like the USSR minus the gulags, though the incarcerated citizens of Catalonia might question the minus.

        • rick hamilton
          Posted November 11, 2017 at 11:31 am | Permalink

          Quite:

          EU USSR
          Commission = Politburo
          Parliament = Supreme Soviet
          Council of Ministers = Council of Ministers

        • Mitchel
          Posted November 11, 2017 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

          “I think we have a gulag in the EU also-an “intellectual gulag” known as political correctness.”

          Soviet dissident writer,Vladimir Bukovsky,2006

    • stred
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:57 am | Permalink

      Eire will become a net contributor to the EU when the UK leaves. They will have to knuckle under to an EU treasury and taxes, pay for Junkers Armed forces and the Junker Youth, The High Representative’s embassies and accept free movement of Mrs Merkel’s guests when she gives them EU passports. Most of Irish cheddar, meat and whisky goes to the UK. Just have another referendum and ignore the second then do a UDI at the same date as the UK while joining in the free trade deals with the US, where so many relations live., Declare Craggy Island independent, in the EU and build a wall around it, then open a head office for Mr O Leary there so that his planes can still fly.

  25. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    JR, thanks to David Davis and his stupid refusal to publicly defend the government’s present policy that we are leaving the EU I’ve now got to the point where I can hardly bear to watch any TV news and current affairs programmes or look at any newspapers. Can’t you please have a word with him and point out the grave damage which is being done by the failure of his department to rebut all the nonsense which is being spread around by Remoaners day after day? Why, after the best part of twenty years lending my weak efforts to help counter the false pro-EU propaganda from the government and its allies do I now have to continue with that campaign almost as though the referendum had never taken place, and with the government effectively sitting on the sidelines rather than defending its own official policy? I suppose that having the government adopting a kind of neutral position is better than having the government constantly using public resources in the cause of the EEC/EC/EU/USE project as it did for six decades; but have we no right to expect anything better than its present submissive silence when its official policy, the policy endorsed by the electorate, is being attacked day after day after day?

    • stred
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

      It isn’t just UK TV news that pumps out all the project Fear II stuff. Yesterday French News 24 had Boris being attacked for bungling and they chose Lady ‘aren’t those Ukippers awful with their flags’ Nugee’s speech when she slagged him off. They use the media to get their way. Most people in the EU now think it is the UK not offering security to residents from Europe, when it is the Commission holding agreement up. When necessary, you have to lie as a certain Cognac enthusiast said.

    • acorn
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

      Exactly how can Davis defend the government’s position? What weapons has he got? Canaan forgot to leave him the map to the promised land, and the tablets of stone got lost in the post. Words like void and abyss come to mind.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:23 am | Permalink

        He would have the truth if he chose to use it instead of expecting to succeed by constantly creeping up the backside of the EU.

        • acorn
          Posted November 11, 2017 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

          As Jack Nicholson said in “A Few Good Men.”

          ‘You Can’t Handle The Truth”.

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted November 12, 2017 at 9:01 am | Permalink

            Is that what Jack Nicholson said? If so, a most fascinating commentary on our present debates, not.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

      Actually, watching on the news the British position on Brexit unravel by the minute is quite amusing.

      It is not as if the remainers did not told you this would be the case.

      • Anonymous
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

        Well Remainers didn’t do a very good job of selling us the benefits of the EU did they !

        Why ?

        Because they don’t have the first clue about it. Like what EU party they are affilliated with, their leaders, their knowledge of the five Presidents… and on and on.

        Come on ! Remainers should be at least as well informed about EU politics as they are British.

        No one actually *loves* the EU even though they might say so and this is why the failed so abjectly to sell it to us.

        • Anonymous
          Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

          Electing EU MPs was so unimportant in this country that it didn’t cause a stir when UKIP won the EU election. Of such little consequence that our pro EU PM was confident to call a referendum on the EU.

          Why were the UKIP wins not a crisis point in our history ?

          Because EU MPs are unimportant and ineffective – that’s why !

          The EU is undemocratic and this very fact proves it. On a Continent that has had less stability and continuity than Britain.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:25 am | Permalink

        It might not be so amusing when some of your compatriots start to lose their jobs, which is what could happen if the EU doesn’t decide to conduct itself with more common sense during these negotiations.

      • alan jutson
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

        Tabulazero

        I wonder why the Five Presidents report (written before the Referendum) and their vision for a future EU is NEVER referred to by the Remainers.

        Have you read it by chance ?

    • Beecee
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

      The BBC fills all of its Brexit news from statements made by Barnier etc. Then for balance has a reporter standing outside No. 10 or Parliament giving the BBC’s view of the Government’s position.

      Why has our Brexit team not asked, multiple times, in public, how much the EU will pay for tariff free access to the UK market in which they have an £80bn or so balance of trade advantage each year?

      Why? Why?

      The May/Davis axis may be priding themselves on their diplomacy but as an example of how to negotiate and win the day – it is bull$&!!

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

      Denis Cooper

      Brilliant entry

  26. Rien Huizer
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    Would you have a better solution that satisfies reasonable EU requirements , especially no trade leaks? If the UK became a pure third country (no FTA facilitating an open border) there had to be a “hard” border. Unavoidable, unless either part of Ireland would change status (eg NI joining the Customs Union -better, joining the Republic- or the Republic leaving the EU and having a suitable arrangement with the UK. Which one would the Irish prefer?

    The Irish issue is perhaps the most difficult, from an EU perspective. So one should not expect any EU generosity here.

    The money can be discussed and if necessary, a UK walk out without a settlement would be a small price to pay for certainty.

    The expats on both sides will disappear anyway. The workers will leave, plenty of employment in a very tight labour market in NW Europe (Holland alone expects to import over 250K skilled workers during the next two years and Germany can probably handle a million) and take their dependents and their taxes with them. The retirees will disappear through natural causes and return to NHS land for their final and expensive years.

    Tine the UK had a functioning government with a unified plan about what to do with this “mess” or “opportunity” depending on your POV.

    A separate point: the UK is still a EU member state and these negotiations are under EU rules, like it or not. I do not see any “insisting” etc. The other side is calm and collected (exception for the MEPs; they are different, but the Commission and the States are behaving without a lot of emotion and hjave made it quite clear what they want, part of which is not negotiable.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:45 am | Permalink

      “The Irish issue is perhaps the most difficult, from an EU perspective. So one should not expect any EU generosity here.”

      I no longer expect any EU common sense, let alone generosity, on anything. Nor do I expect them to keep to any of their own rules except when it suits them.

      But rest assured that many people in Britain will remember the disgusting way that the EU has approached these negotiations.

      • Terry Mushroom
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 8:45 am | Permalink

        Agreed.

        The curious thing is that the EU forgets the lesson of the Treay of Versailles after WW1. Humiliating a country and wrecking its economy is a recipe for war.

        • Diogenes
          Posted November 11, 2017 at 10:56 am | Permalink

          As far as I remember from my school days, the treaty of Versailles was about the conditions imposed on Germany after their defeat in WWI. As far as I can see, the UK has not lost any war, but has voted to leave the EU. If there is humiliation for the country and a wrecked economy, I would think the responsibility is either fully with the UK (or at least its Government) and if blame really really needs be apportioned, most of it is likely to be on the UK side, as to me at least, the EU27 has not changed its stance since the 29 March. And why should the EU27 changed? The UK is leaving, fine. Why should anyone on the continent do anything apart from accepting. Anybody who has taken the time and energy to look at the figures, of imports and exports, sector by sector, can conclude that only two or three continental countries are going to be affected, with impact of the order to 2 to 8 percent in some sectors over, maybe 3 to 5 years. Isn’t it a price worth paying to get rid of the country which has always asked for a special status. Some in the UK are claiming that trading along WTO lines will ensure the best of conditions possible. So go for it, and let the EU27 deal with their own problems. The interest for Brexit on the continent is rather limited.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

        Yes but by the time the UK actually leave the EU, a significant chunk of the Brexit voters will be dead.

        Who’s to say the British people won’t change their mind?

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

      “The expats on both sides will disappear anyway. The workers will leave”

      No they won’t. Over a million German citizens live and work in the USA which isn’t in the EU and doesn’t have freedom of movement with Germany. How do you explain that ? Why haven’t they all left ?

      • Rien Huizer
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

        You have a point there. The category “workers” is not homogeneous. Like your US/German example (I trust that figure is correct; of course the US is a very large economy with large numbers of expats, students and corporate secondees. I doubt there are many German bricklayers or nurses in the US. The correct analogy is Mexicans. Losing the EU low/intermediate skilled workers is similar to the US losing her Mexicans.

  27. zorro
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Haha…. Bring it on, you can rely on the EU to wind the Irish up. The UK and Ireland would have an open border and free trade and the EU are going to come along and demand a hard border. Sure…. the Irish are going to love that.

    zorro

  28. Tad Davison
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    The EU is revealing itself to be a bully and a totalitarian state in the making, but isn’t that pretty much what we Brexiteers have been warning about all along?

    Shame on the remainiacs for wanting to keep us in it. We need to treat them with a great deal of suspicion for their motives are far from pure.

    Tad Davison

    Cambridge

  29. agricola
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    2016 figures suggest that Irish exports in Billions to the USA $33.4 and the UK $16.5 are much more significant than their exports to the EU, (Belgium $16.2, Germany$8.67, Switzerland $6.9 ). The figures for Belgium could be misleading because both Rotterdam and Antwerp are World as well as EU gateways. It is a matter of how they do the accounting, but I have no evidence that my Belgian friends are heavily into Irish whiskey or ceramic leprechauns for their gardens. No doubt, in the light of these EU threats the Irish government will be examining the figures with care. I wonder, do Barnier and Bailley consult with all 27 member states before releasing these broadsides.

  30. miami.mode
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    A naked political attempt to stir up trouble.

  31. Diogenes
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    10/11/2017 received at 09:11 Unexpected roadblock, Bloomberg Brexit Bulletin
    A text at variance with Dr. Redwood’s post this morning:
    Somebody is peddling “fake news”.

  32. Derek Vaughan
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    On the wider point of leaving, it seems to me what the EU are particularly keen to preserve and regulate are the conditions for their large often state owned investments in the UK.
    Airports, railways, power, waste and construction. Rather large cash flow type businesses. The interests of their ‘citizens’ are secondary but a useful justification for maintenance of ECJ jurisdiction and a lockstep with EU policies in these and other areas.
    As an example, introducing a new, perhaps more efficient waste and recycling policy might have a material and detrimental effect upon Suez and their extensive contracts.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

      They are not particularly “keen”. They do not want loopholes and messy situations to arise. The EU rules are a necessary incident to the Internal Market

      • rose
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 11:57 am | Permalink

        “The EU rules are a necessary incident to the Internal Market” which they break whenever it suits them.

  33. Ron Olden
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    In the unlikely event that there’s a ‘Hard Border’ between the UK the ROI, overwhelmingly the worst losers will be the ROI.

    So they might like to consider whether their own interests are best served by staying on the EU.

    If the EU forces a Hard Border upon the ROI, they will, as part of the Euro Zone face ruin. Nearly all of ROI’s trade with present EU countries will, instead, have to be conducted via (or with) a non EU country with which it has a Hard Border.

    On another subject I noticed from figures published today that for the first time in 23 years, Industrial Output has grown for six consecutive months.

    There has also been a sharp contraction in the UK’s Trade Deficit.

    According to Remainer claims following the Brexit Vote however, we should, by now, be a year into an economic depression caused by ‘uncertainty’. In fact growth is accelerating again.

    The Brexit vote achieved a ‘Golden Scenario’ which would have been impossible to contrive without it. It managed to bring about a sharp reversal of the overvalued Pound, without any of the adverse economic fundamentals usually associated with a devaluation having happened.

    The up tick in inflation has been miniscule. Inflation at 3% is now at, or very close to its’ peak and will fall again to near 2% by the time we Leave.

    Despite the rise in inflation, food prices are no higher than they were 2 years ago.

    The BBC, eager as ever to undermine this success story, says that our ‘overall trade position’ has ‘worsened owing to increases in imports of ‘machinery’ ‘non monetary gold’ and ‘fuels”.

    ‘Machinery’ and ‘non monetary gold’ however, are capital investment and raw material items. Investing in machinery, and in buying in raw materials for commercial purposes, is a good thing, not a bad thing.

    Growth of imports of consumer goods is falling as fast as exports are rising.

    As for ‘fuel’ the change is inevitable. At current low oil prices, most North Sea Oil and Gas, is now too expensive to compete with most Middle East and fracked Oil and Gas. Investment in the North Sea has stopped and as long as the oil price stays anything like as low as it now is, that’s the way it will stay.

    The ‘Leave’ Vote is already working a miracle behind the scenes in the UK. The rise in consumer consumption is declining, especially in terms of imports, investment is rising, and we are becoming less reliant on construction and low value services.

    In due course when the supply of cheap imported labour declines, wages will rise further causing investment to rise faster still, to save on labour costs.

    This is the ‘rebalancing’, of the economy which has eluded us for decades. The virtuous circle of investment led growth has arrived.

    The low wage, low productivity economy favoured by Remainers will be gone for good.

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

      Like it. Good analysis. I would like to think there is also a growing dislike and abhorance towards the selling off of UK companies which has plagued our economy for the the last two or three decades. Governments policies have been disastrous in this regard.

      • Rien Huizer
        Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

        Not too many left

  34. oldtimer
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps the Irish government should seek the advice of Mr Orban, PM of Hungary, on building a border fence.

  35. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Off-topic:

    https://euobserver.com/tickers/139830

    “Nationalism is ‘poison’, says Juncker in Spain”

    However it seems that “Europeanism” is fine; it may be nothing more than “nationalism” writ large, but the problem with petty “nationalisms” within Europe is:

    “Nationalisms are a poison that prevent Europe from working together”

    It’s good to be reminded at this stage what the EEC/EC/EU/USE project is all about, which is basically the end of the sovereign nation states of Europe and their replacement by a sovereign pan-European federation.

    And that is what the Remoaners want, that is why they are so frantic in their lies and distortions to try to keep their preferred geopolitical show on the road.

  36. Tabulazero
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    It think John Redwood has actually had a brilliant idea.

    The people of Calais totally approve his vision of a frictionless border between the RoI and Northern Ireland.

    It just happen to be that they would like to charter a few boats doing the Calais- Dundalk line on a no question asked basis.

    That would solve quite a few problems on their side.

    A big thump up on this one, Mr Redwood.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

      The disatisfaction exists throughout the EU, Tabulazero.

      Rest assured that we are all (including you) going to be poorer and not richer when Britain leaves/implodes and that this was brought about by the EU’s fixation with population change.

      So don’t be smug and stop being such a smart ass.

      This is the beginning of the end of the EU whichever way you cut it.

      If we leave or are forced to stay – it is a lethal blow.

    • Backofanenvelope
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

      Perhaps you’d arrange for Calais to be returned to British rule?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:28 am | Permalink

      So you agree that is what your EU friends are like, and you take pride in it.

  37. Garretg
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    The UK is leaving and there is to be no hard border, according to JR, so this can mean only one of two things, the future border between Uk and EU will be in the Irish Sea or the UK chooses to remain in the customs union

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

      And what about Rockall?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:31 am | Permalink

      Or there will be a border like that which already exists between Norway and Sweden, or with an even lighter touch than that border. That is supposing that the EU would allow the Irish to agree to that obvious solution.

  38. Alistair Gilbert
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    I have said this in the past. Just leave and keep the border open. If the EU want to put a border up that is up to them.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

      Agreed…

    • Peter Gledhill
      Posted November 11, 2017 at 8:20 am | Permalink

      Absolutely.

  39. Dave , Shinfield
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Pretty much everyone born in Northern Ireland is entitled to an Irish passport. As far as the EU is concerned, they are just looking after their citizens especially given the majority of NI voted for remain. As fas as I can tell, the most likely outcome will be Northern Ireland leaving the UK and re-uniting with the Irish Republic.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      To be honest – thank goodness for that !

      It has been a terrible dilemma for our country and those wishing to remain British have not realised that ‘British’ no longer exists.

  40. oldtimer
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    There was an interesting comment by Barnier at the very end of todays press conference in response to a question whether it was France and Germany calling the shots on the negotiation – asked after he had said he was working “with a remit”. In reply he said that “every day”…”he “weighs up the unity of the 27” and “the confidence and trust they have in their negotiator”. At that point the press conference was swiftly closed.

    If May and David Davis have issues with securing parliamentary and public agreement to whatever they want to settle at, then so do M Barnier, the Commission, the 27 and the European parliament. The chances of an agreement look a long way off to me.

  41. nigel
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Mrs May is percived as being weak and indecisive.
    Mrs May is perceived as lacking authority over her cabinet.
    Mrs May is becoming increasingly unpopular with the electorate.
    The CBI and other industry leaders are pleading for some definitive decision on the Brexit negotiations, so that they can plan for the future.
    Monsieur Barnier has issued a deadline that the UK must come up with a bigger cash offer within 2 weeks or trade negotiations cannot proceed.
    Mrs May can substantially resolve all these issues by sending David Davis back to Brussels in 2 weeks with strict instructions to explain again the offer she made in her Florence speech and to confirm to M.Barnier that the EU can either accept this as a basis for moving forward with trade discussions, or the offer is withdrawn, and we will plan to leave the EU on 29th March 2019 with no payment being made other than our normal contributions up to that date.
    Mrs May’s standing in the country would immediately rise considerably. Her political advisors, surely can see this.

  42. Anonymous
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Looks like the EU is going to have an army to police the new hard border.

  43. Chris S
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    I see that my own MP, Christopher Chope, has had his very interesting take on the so-called negotiations reproduced on brexitcentral.com today. The link was also reproduced on Guido Fawkes.

    Chris has recently visited Brussels as part of a group from the Select Committee for Exiting the European Union and after meeting Barnier and Verhofstadt has reached the same conclusion as many of us here, that No Deal is our best option.

    Chris has concludes that any trade deal with the EU will effectively tie us up in knots and severely hamper our ability to be a fully independent trading nation.

    Why cannot Brussels and the 27 get it into their collective brain that we are LEAVING and we INSIST on being a fully independent country again ?

    That means :

    NO restrictions on our trade with the rest of the world imposed by Brussels.
    NO involvement of the ECJ whatsoever in our law making.
    NO further payments to the EU after the transition period.
    FULL EU control over our fishing grounds.

    You can read his conclusions at :
    http://brexitcentral.com/meeting-michel-barnier-guy-verhofstadt-ive-concluded-no-deal-will-better-deal/

    • Chris S
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

      Correction to the penultimate paragraph :

      FULL UK Control over our fishing grounds.

  44. Chris S
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Far from being upset that we have to follow the EU timing for our exit from the EU, I am delighted.

    It means that we will be out and free one hour earlier than we would otherwise have been.

  45. DougM
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Tne irish border has hundreds of side roads, mountain tracks and farmhouses where if you open one door you’re in NI but if you open the other you’re in the RoI, to police it with customs will take an army of customs officers, backed by police on both sides and if things get rough the army will be needed to back it all up. Let’s be very clear a hard border in Ireland will mean the resumption of smuggling on a large scale at tbe very lease and very probably the startup again of political trouble..does anyone else have a different opinion?

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 10, 2017 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

      That is why the hard border should be somewhere else.

  46. Andy
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    The EU is not desperate. The Brexiteers are. (Embarrassingly so).

    If you voted leave then you voted for a hard border. It is an inevitable consequence of your vote. This was YOUR choice. Nobody else made the decision. It is all down to you.

    Remainers do not want a hard border. The Irish do not want a hard border. The EU does not want a hard border. But YOU voted for a hard border. And as you keep telling us, shut up you won.

    I know the logic of your vote is a struggle for many of you but a hard border is an inevitable consequence of YOUR vote. To be able to fully control who and what comes in to your country (which is what you want) you need a hard border.

    Without a hard border any EU citizen can get in to the UK by travelling via Ireland. Without a hard border the EU can not protect the integrity of its market which YOU voted to leave.

    I am sorry if you don’t like the consequences of your vote. But it is entirely your fault – so stop trying to blame everyone else. It is pathetic and tiresome.

    • rose
      Posted November 11, 2017 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

      We did not vote for a hard border and if the EU would grow up and stop being so vindictive they could enjoy free trade with us and no hard border.

      • Andy
        Posted November 11, 2017 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

        I am sorry – but you absolutely did vote for a hard border. Granted, you may not have realised it, but it was always an inevitable consequence of YOUR vote.

        A major Brexiteer objection to the EU is its rules and regulations. After Brexit, we are told, we can scrap these regulation. For example, we can scrap food safety standards and import Dr Fox’s chlorinated chicken and the other Frankenstein foods he loves.

        Brexit allows us to do this – and Conservative lack of standards combined with Brexiteer desperation to do a deal with Trump make this almost inevitable. So you can enjoy your substandard food if you like.

        The EU, quite rightly, does not want substandard Brexiteer food within its single market so a hard border is required to keep it out. Otherwise substandard illegal products can be taken into the EU without challenge.

        The same works in reverse. If the EU suddenly lowers standards for cars, for example, how would we keep the illegal ones out without a hard border? Getting rid of all the rules and regulations you voted to get rid of necessitates the installation of a hard border you claim you disn’t vote for.

        I am sorry that you haven’t figured this out yet.

        It is not that EU who needs to grow up it is Brexiteers. You really need to start figuring this stuff out, and fast – because it is not your generation which will suffer.

        Reply Try reading the government papers on the Irish border after exit which explain how it will work

        • Andy
          Posted November 12, 2017 at 9:50 am | Permalink

          The government paper on the Irish border makes interesting reading. It is interesting because it shows that ministers want the border to work like it does now. But because of your vote John it cannot work as it does now. Yet it cannot work as it does now because Brexiteers want to scrap regulations and stop free movement – both of which are impossible without a hard border. Cameras won’t help you with this conundrum. This is a real problem your Brexit has created. It is entirely of your making. Stop bitching at everyone else and try to find a solution to this problem you have created. (Clue – your solution choices are remaining in the single market/customs union, a hard border or a new border in Irish Sea which will lead to reunification. Your problem, you pick).

          The EU is very far from perfect. But on just about every measure it is now entirely clear that on just about every issue the Brexit alternative is worse. Pretending otherwise does not make you look strong. It makes you look deranged.

          I know you find this tiresome. We found your 40 years of complaining about the EU and its predecessors tiresome too. But my generation has to live with the consequences of a Brexit we do not want. We are the future and you are not.

          Reply The govt paper does set out how to do it

  47. Backtoback
    Posted November 10, 2017 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    Here’s the way it looks…there will be no agreement on a future trade deal now because after we leave we will be in a much weakened position to negotiate with them once we have left and that’s probably the EU plan all along. So better leave now and push ahead with new trade deals with other countries globally as we were promised.

  48. Briton
    Posted November 11, 2017 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    The BBC announced Trump has secured and signed $250 Billion of trade agreements with China on the first day of his visit along with the First Lady, which it says “isn’t much really” and then they tell us triumphantly Mr Speaker has reaffirmed his ban on Trump visiting Parliament. Good to see Mr Speaker conjoined with the BBC and Working for Britain!

  49. Polemicist
    Posted November 11, 2017 at 3:23 am | Permalink

    A woman once touched my hand, told me I was attractive and charming. I didn’t know how to handle it. I was only 50.

  50. VotedOut
    Posted November 11, 2017 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Not spending money on foreign powers is a clear move in the right direction.

    However, I understand that the UK government will on Monday sign up to Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO). There has been no comment on this at all. It is part of the Brussels drive to form an EU army and restricts military procurement. Signing such an agreement will not go down well in Washington – and rightly so. The defense of the UK will be totally compromised and yet nothing has been said about this.

    Madness – if true

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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