My contribution in the Northern Ireland Protocol Committee (Day 2) debate

Rt Hon Sir John Redwood MP (Wokingham) (Con): I welcome the notion of measures that restore our control over VAT and subsidies in Northern Ireland. It is entirely within the spirit and the text of the protocol, which says that both parties will respect the internal market of the United Kingdom. How can we have a proper functioning internal market if we have to have rates of VAT in Northern Ireland that are different from the rest of our internal market? And how can we claim that our country’s sovereignty is respected by this part of the agreement, as the EU originally said it would be, if we are not sovereign to change VAT in an important part of the United Kingdom? It is right that we legislate on this issue, because we took back control and we wish to restore the sovereignty of this Parliament. How can we say that we have a sovereign Parliament properly restored if our Chancellor of the Exchequer cannot change VAT in part of the UK? It is right and it is legal that we legislate within the terms of the protocol and the agreement, and it is essential that we do so. Those who favour a negotiated solution with the EU should recognise that a huge amount of time and talent has been put into negotiating with the EU in recent years on these matters, and it has been unwilling to be reasonable or to respect the spirit and even the letter of the protocol itself. It is time to legislate.

I say to those who favour a negotiated solution and still have this idea that the EU will, in due course, negotiate properly over one that it is far more likely to negotiate in a more sympathetic and realistic spirit if it knows that we have the firm backstop of clear legislation, which means we will do the right thing by Northern Ireland and the whole UK if the EU cannot be bothered to meet us and understand what it means for the communities in Northern Ireland.

The EU should also take on board the good advice from the Democratic Unionist party and other members of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. The whole fabric of the Good Friday agreement rests upon the consent of both communities. The EU says it fully signs up to that and sees it as of prior importance to the protocol, so the EU has to understand that there is no cross-community consent for the current position. The sooner we legislate to sort that out, the better.

131 Comments

  1. Gorman
    July 22, 2022

    You said NOTHING about the need for crosscommunity support when a large majority in Northern Ireland voted against Brexit. What hypocrisy

    1. DOM
      July 22, 2022

      The referendum was a UK wide vote. How people in NI voted was immaterial. On that basis your accusation of hypocrisy is preposterous and immature

      1. Gorman
        July 22, 2022

        Correct Dom, and at the 2019 General Election the voters of the UK voted for the Protocol. So it’s time to stop complaining about it and time to implement it

        1. Peter2
          July 22, 2022

          Did you actually read Sir John’s article above, Gorman?

        2. glen cullen
          July 22, 2022

          Here’s what the 2019 manifesto said about NI
          ‘Guaranteeing the full economic benefits of Brexit: Northern Ireland will enjoy the full economic benefits of Brexit including new free trade agreements with the rest of the world. We will ensure that Northern Ireland’s businesses and producers enjoy unfettered access to the rest of the UK and that in the implementation of our Brexit deal, we maintain and strengthen the integrity and smooth operation of our internal market.’
          Nothing about the protocol !

          1. Hart
            July 22, 2022

            The protocol was the ovenready deal! The only difference between Boris’s deal and theresa’s!

          2. glen cullen
            July 22, 2022

            It was suggested by Gorman that the voters at the 2019 general election knew that they were voting in support of the NIP….they cleary weren’t as it wasn’t in the election manifesto !

        3. Denis Cooper
          July 22, 2022

          It would certainly bring matters to a head, and very quickly, if the protocol was fully implemented. It is only being accepted relatively calmly at present because most of it is not being implemented.

          https://hansard.parliament.uk//commons/2022-06-27/debates/2FA67D37-816A-4F05-AFE2-AFD4CC4D4B5F/NorthernIrelandProtocolBill#contribution-8A838FA0-61B3-4686-9926-F26223DC2AC0

          “The EU has said not once or twice but every time that it will not renegotiate the text of the protocol. The EU has said it every time it has visited Northern Ireland and every time it has met Government representatives. In fact, the EU has now gone further and is taking us to court to impose more checks.

          The result of removing the grace periods would be to increase the number of checks per week for goods coming into Northern Ireland from 6,000 to 25,000. This is hardly flexibility from the EU. Indeed, the EU recently wrote to the Government to demand checks on not only goods but people on ferries or airplanes from GB into Northern Ireland. The EU is demanding that people’s personal baggage is searched to make sure they are not bringing in sandwiches or whatever else. Constituents told me this week that such searches have already started in Cairnryan. This is not flexibility but a hardening of attitude by the EU.”

          Is that what you want?

        4. Peter2
          July 22, 2022

          Did we Gorman?
          I thought most voted for Brexit.

      2. Peter
        July 22, 2022

        JR contribution addresses the issue concisely. However, the legislation first of all needs to pass through the House of Lords. Then it needs to be acted upon. We have a Summer break and a change of Prime Minister soon.

        I await further developments but I expect this to drag on.

        1. Mike
          July 22, 2022

          Not at all Peter, the very thing of proceeding with this legislation is a threat in itself and in case you still can’t see just look at the queues at Dover.
          This is how it will work- at governments and ministerial level there will be nice words and smiles all round but for the long suffering public only salt and vinegar.

    2. BW
      July 22, 2022

      It not hypocrisy at all. It was a national vote not a regional one. The nation voted to leave.

    3. Shirley M
      July 22, 2022

      What would be your solution? There are plenty of people (losers) making this claim but they never offer a solution. The referendum was won by the majority vote (it is called democracy) and is the best way of pleasing the majority, or do you suggest we break up the UK in order to allow some parts to rejoin the EU? Is there another solution? Everyone should have only one government. One that can be voted out, if necessary. A government that works for the people, and not just to make themselves more powerful and invincible.

      1. Gary Megson
        July 22, 2022

        Shirley, the solution is the Protocol. It splits Northern Ireland from Great Britain, but it was already clear under the Good Friday Agreement – supported in a referendum by a large majority of the people of Northern Ireland – that Northern Ireland is different from England, Scotland and Wales, in that both the Uk and Ireland have a stake in its future. After Brexit, there is a big problem (ignored in 2016 by Brexiters) because the outer border of the EU now lies between Ireland and NI. Everyone agreed there could be no hard border there, so it was agreed there would be one instead between NI and GB. That is what is agreed in the Protocol, that was the oven ready deal. So it is time the UK stopped complaining aboiut the deal it agreed

        1. Shirley M
          July 22, 2022

          The protocol was a stopgap solution, intended to be amended if it caused problems for either side. Dispute resolution is incorporated into the NIP and the EU would use it if necessary (or even if not necessary, as they intended with the vaccines) so why not the UK? The NIP does cause problems for the UK, and needs to be corrected, or abandoned altogether.

      2. Gary
        July 22, 2022

        Most people in NI really like the Protocol because it gives us the access to the EU single mrket which you in GB have lost

        1. Shirley M
          July 22, 2022

          How do you know? Was there a vote or is it just hearsay?

          1. Bill brown
            July 22, 2022

            Shirley

            Opinion polls have been made on the subject

          2. Peter2
            July 22, 2022

            Well one or two polls bill.
            Small samples of the millions in Northern Ireland.

          3. Shirley M
            July 22, 2022

            Bill – since when have opinion polls been reliable? As we all know, polls can be manipulated to produce the desired result, or just sheer incompetence in its implementation. Have they done a recent poll on UK membership? That would be the real choice facing NI, wouldn’t it?

          4. Oler
            July 22, 2022

            Yes, a vote. The majority of Elected Asembly members in NI are pro Protocol. Elections were only two months ago

          5. hefner
            July 23, 2022

            Are the recent elections (5 May 2022) to the NI Assembly a ‘poll’ big enough? Or do you need a poll ‘a day to keep the doctor away’?

        2. Denis Cooper
          July 22, 2022

          Only yesterday I sent an email about that to Hilary Benn, Labour MP for Leeds Central, headed:

          “Record exports to the EU, but not from Leeds Central”

          “The recent CityAM article “£16.9bn boost for Brexit Britain as UK to EU exports hit highest level ever recorded” should have made it clear that none of those exports came from Leeds Central, because:

          https://hansard.parliament.uk//commons/2022-07-20/debates/C87027CA-3C9B-457F-AAD6-C7A9EAEEE376/NorthernIrelandProtocolBill#contribution-9ED58429-85D9-4990-87A6-8A0D748DB0B5

          “Northern Ireland is in a unique and favourable position compared with my constituents, precisely because it has access to both the market of the United Kingdom and the market of the European Union”

          Actually it’s a mystery how anybody in Great Britain is managing to sell anything into the EU, now that Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK where businesses have access to the EU Single Market.

          I wonder how long we are going to have to put up with this deceitful twaddle?”

          Then later I forwarded it to another senior Labour MP who had said on television that:

          “our exports have collapsed in Europe”

          with this note:

          “No, they haven’t, that is a straight lie and if anything the exact opposite of the truth”.

          1. Jamie
            July 22, 2022

            Peter2, there are no millions of people in NI only total 1.8 million. DUP represents about 20 per cent of that – for them this is all ideological or in their minds somehow they would love to have the army back again with watchtowers complete on the border – the rest of the population is quite content with the protocol as is – no doubt they agree it could do with a few tweeks but generally speaking it is of great benefit to have equal access to GB and to EU markets for some paperwork – that’s how it is.

          2. Peter2
            July 22, 2022

            Jamie
            Jamie
            Your idea of maths and plurals is different to mine.
            More than one million is millions…plural.

            Your watchtower claim is a ridiculous fantasy.
            Who has said that?

            Amazing you know everyone loves the NIP
            Presumably you’ve asked them all.

          3. hefner
            July 23, 2022

            P2, presumably you have the indubitable proof that everyone in NI is against the NIP. Can you give a reference for your assertion, please.

          4. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            Another ridiculous comment from you hef.
            I didn’t say everyone in Northern Ireland is against the Protocol.
            Stop making things up.

          5. hefner
            July 23, 2022

            A curious comment P2. You said Jamie ‘know(s) everyone loves the NIP ‘. Please tell me why you can write such a thing and chasten me when I take the counterpoint to your comment.

          6. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            You are getting confused hef.

          7. hefner
            July 23, 2022

            Is that the best you can produce as an answer P2? You’re really a clown.

          8. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            As usual you resort to abuse whenever your argument is exposed.
            You sad lefties.
            Try harder.

          9. hefner
            July 24, 2022

            The World according to P2:
            ………………. lefties / woke / greenies vs sensible people, ……………………………. leavers (oops, patriots) vs. Remoaners,
            ……………………………………….… abusers vs. being called confused or ridiculous.

            A world making a certain kind of politicians very happy … (hi Nigel & friends)

          10. Peter2
            July 24, 2022

            Even more personal attacks heffy.
            Is this how you deal with those you deal with face to face?
            I bet you don’t.

    4. Nottingham Lad Himself
      July 22, 2022

      Yes, so much for “localism” eh?

      On and on it goes, problem after problem, all caused by the anti-Enlightenment, anti-intellectual, delusional brexit.

      1. Denis Cooper
        July 22, 2022

        You know perfectly well that foreign affairs are a reserved matter.

      2. Sir Joe Soap
        July 22, 2022

        So your answer is for us all to have our own, personal, membership of the EU if we want it? Perhaps you should try negotiate that one yourself with the EU. If you succeed, let us know and we’ll try it also.

      3. None of the Above
        July 22, 2022

        Oh Dear!

      4. Philip P.
        July 22, 2022

        The EU is a grossly corrupt undemocratic institution which has nothing to do with the values of the Enlightenment. We are well out of it. It exists to promote arbitrary rule by a privileged elite, its countries mostly ignore the law of habeas corpus, and it imposes heavy taxes in support of an irrational religious cult called net zero. If he could come back, Voltaire would straightaway call it out for what it really is :- ‘l’infame’.

        1. hefner
          July 22, 2022

          Values of the Enlightenment?
          What? Reason / rationality?
          Hume said that reason should be the slave of passions. Smith’s moral theory is based on the sentiment of approval by others, Rousseau’s on all sorts of psychological and emotional notions like self-esteem. Kant based it on ‘pure reason’ without actually defining what it was.
          What? Autonomy / Freedom of the individual?
          Voltaire gave the label of enlightened despot to Frederick the Great when he was at his court.
          Rousseau (again) said the individual’s voice should account for the General Will. Diderot or Holbach were not too keen on free will as they were considering man as a machine.
          Enlightenment was a confusion of different thought systems, all trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to replace Christianity.

          To refer to the values of the Enlightenment to support or condemn the EU is willingly entering a very heterogeneous farrago of moral theories, mostly absent of both the EU and the present UK governing ‘elites’.

          1. bill brown
            July 22, 2022

            Hefner,

            Great response.

            thank you

          2. Bill brown
            July 22, 2022

            Great post Hefner

          3. Philip P.
            July 23, 2022

            Without the coming of Enlightenment values, especially critical questioning of established authority, a blog like this could not exist.

          4. hefner
            July 23, 2022

            Philip P. Agreed with your point about Enlightenment values opening up free speech on a blog like this one.
            But a rather curious comment regarding the ‘grossly corrupt undemocratic EU’. The EU Parliament is elected, the Council is made of Heads of State, each elected in their own country, the Commission is as (un)democratic as the UK House of Lords.

        2. Peter2
          July 22, 2022

          Great post Phillip.

        3. Nottingham Lad Himself
          July 22, 2022

          Tripe.

          1. Peter2
            July 22, 2022

            Can be very tasty cooked well.
            Try it sometime NHL

          2. hefner
            July 23, 2022

            ™️ ‘decent debate’ ?

          3. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            I presume you are talking to bill

  2. Denis Cooper
    July 22, 2022

    The unelected legislators-for-life in the other place are intent on causing trouble:

    https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-07-21/heckling-as-ni-protocol-bill-introduced-to-house-of-lords

    “Heckling as Northern Ireland Protocol Bill introduced to House of Lords”

    It is packed with EU supporters, many of them relics from an earlier age, and of course they will try to stop it.

    We need to change the Oath of Allegiance to include an express renunciation of any loyalty to the EU.

    1. None of the Above
      July 22, 2022

      It has been suggested that the Government is determined to use the Parliament Act if necessary and has timed the introduction of the Bill to achieve this. It might be too much to expect that democracy will be respected but I hope that common sense will prevail.

  3. Gary Megson
    July 22, 2022

    Can I recommend you read the Protocol? Its Article 8, entitled “VAT and excise”, states that EU VAT rules “shall apply to and in the United Kingdom in respect of Northern Ireland” and that “In respect of Northern Ireland, the authorities of the United Kingdom shall be responsible for the application and the implementation of” EU VAT rules. You voted for the Protocol and so you voted for the application of EU VAT rules in Northern Ireland, but not Great Britain. It would be helpful if you could explain why you did this rather than trying to pretend you didn’t

    Reply The Protocol also said it respects the U.K. internal market which needs common VAT rates, and says it should not divert GB/NI trade. Because it was contradictory it contained a clause to amend or remove the Protocol at a later stage when we had a final Future Trade Agreement. When that did not fix it I opposed the whole thing.

    1. Gary Megson
      July 22, 2022

      Thank you for the courtesy of that reply, Mr Redwood. It shows, however, that you did not and do not understand the Protocol which you voted for. Protection of the UK internal market is conditional on complying with the Protocol (see Article 6) which means full application of the EU customs code to GB/NI trade plus also regulatory checks (see Article 5). Also, the Protocol does NOT say it should not divert GB/NI trade – quite the opposite, it says it will, and puts in place a scheme to manage that (see Article 16). The one thing that is clear is that the UK cannot unilaterally amend the Protocol (see Article 13(8)). This is why the current Bill is a breach of international law

      Reply Rubbish. read it again and you will see it is the EU violating it and the Good Friday Agreement.

      1. Gary Megson
        July 22, 2022

        I wonder if I am alone in thinking JR’s reply lacks detail?

        1. Peter2
          July 22, 2022

          You will never agree with any changes to the Protocol Gary.
          You want us to be ruled by the EU.

          1. Bill brown
            July 22, 2022

            Peter 2

            Argue your case with facts and figures

          2. Peter2
            July 22, 2022

            Take your own advice bill.
            You never give facts nor figures and when pressed to answer simple questions and give the EUs argument you just run away.

        2. Lester_Cynic
          July 22, 2022

          GM

          You’re probably in the minority if not totally alone!

        3. bill brown
          July 22, 2022

          Gary,

          Both Sir JRs and Peter 2 lacks detail in thri response, but in the case of Peter 2, please do not expect too much, it stresses him out.

          1. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            Stop trolling bill
            It makes you look very silly.

        4. Mickey Taking
          July 23, 2022

          it appears yours lacks accuracy.

    2. Sir Joe Soap
      July 22, 2022

      1. Our host didn’t vote for it
      2. The agreement (which was signed under duress which itself would justify its annulment) contradicts UK sovereignty, which has been around somewhat longer than the upstart EU. It’s UK territory, UK has sovereignty. If we want to change our own rules on our own territory we will.

  4. DOM
    July 22, 2022

    I don’t believe this issue can be solved by a simple legislative fix. Rather, it is an issue of geopolitical power and how that power can be exercised in relation to competing forces ie the US and the EU. On that basis, the UK is powerless.

    UK sovereignty has both enemies in Parliament, enemies in the US Congress and indeed enemies in Brussels who appear determined to undermine any move towards constitutional normality

    The solution is simple, undiplomatic and very costly.

    1. matthu
      July 22, 2022

      And your proposed simple solution is: “Love thine enemies”?

    2. Denis Cooper
      July 22, 2022

      So what will the US do if we negate parts of the protocol, without causing any material injury to the EU? If the US punitive reaction is limited to denying us any special trade deal then that matters very little as the deal would be worth very little to us anyway. What else might the US do to show its displeasure? Back at the time of Suez the US could pull the plug on sterling, but we are no longer attempting to hold fixed exchange rates. We are the best ally the US has, so they have a lot to lose from action against us to support the EU. And especially it would make no sense for the US to do that if the EU could not even demonstrate that it had suffered any material injury, which is what Liz Truss repeatedly says would be avoided by her measures. I have a concern there, that she is persisting with checks on the wrong flow of goods, imports into Northern Ireland, when the checks should be on the flow of goods which really matters to the EU, exports across the open land border into the Irish Republic and the rest of the EU Single Market, and it seems singularly difficult to get that simple point across to her or anybody else in government or indeed in Parliament.

    3. Sir Joe Soap
      July 22, 2022

      The irony is that Truss wants to return all of Ukraine to Ukrainian sovereignty whilst her own patch loses sovereignty to a hostile neighbouring power.

      1. Mitchel
        July 22, 2022

        Ukraine wants to join the EU(or at least that is the intention of it’s puppet rulers)through an accelerated process,so it won’t be sovereign.

    4. Peter
      July 22, 2022

      Dom the U.K. is not powerless. It lacks resolve.

      If Viktor Orban was in similar negotiations this would have been done and dusted long ago. If a much smaller economy can stand up to the EU and the globalists then so should the U.K.

      1. Mitchel
        July 22, 2022

        Orban has the firm backing of Russia and China (the Hungarian foreign minister was in Moscow again this week);we are on our own.

        1. Peter
          July 22, 2022

          Mitchel,

          This just more defeatism. Are you a civil servant by any chance?

          Our politicians also visit China and Russia and could leverage their interests in the U.K. were they so inclined.

          1. Mitchel
            July 23, 2022

            No.Our politicians are hostile to Russia and China(as a vassal dependency of the US that’s unavoidable,as Boris suggested in his final speech),there’s no material leverage.The world has split into two camps and we are condemned to the losing one.

  5. formula57
    July 22, 2022

    As President Putin has vividly shown recently over Kaliningrad, the Evil Empire folds fast enough when threatened in serious ways. It is using Northern Ireland as a means of inflicting harm: that must be stopped.

  6. Nigl
    July 22, 2022

    You won’t get it through the Lords and in any event my understanding is that it only authorises actions not implements them so more talking, nothing will change. This is political smoke and mirrors.

    And in other news Truss says she will keep public sector funding but will reduce bureaucracy. A glib meaningless statement from a bland over self important machine politician, that no one believes except inward looking self serving MPs.

    The only way to improve efficiency is to cut budgets but demand same outputs, technology, working practices etc and senior management changes. Big ticket private companies ‘regenerate’ regularly in response to economic, competition and market forces/changes.

    Anyone believe this will happen?

    And to empathise the crud this government accepts/churns out we see yet another Home Office disaster. The Border Force so useless they do not even finger print/identify illegals to both check if terrorists or have a record to identify them, which they do in droves. Any one fired, of course not. A great recruitment slogan ‘Join the Civil Service. Regular pay increases, index linked pensions, zero performance or taking responsibility required.’

    You regularly criticise the Treasury Sir JR, how about having the courage to hammer other departments. Your omerta re their civil servants and ministers does you no credit.

    1. Denis Cooper
      July 22, 2022

      The Lords will need to tread very carefully on this. If the DUP hold out on restoring power sharing until the Bill is actually passed then any unnecessary delay by the Lords will make them responsible for preventing it. They are of course free to repeat the same tiresome old rubbish that the opposition rehearsed in the Commons but if they try to stop the Bill they may be endangering their own futures. I don’t agree with everything that the government is proposing but it is generally in the right direction and when draft regulations are published there may be a chance to correct some of the flaws in present government thinking. In particular as I have said ad nauseam – including in a helpful letter to Liz Truss when she took over – the focus should be shifted away from the goods that come into Northern Ireland, none of the EU’s business, to the goods that leave Northern Ireland across the border into the Irish Republic, in which the EU has a legitimate interest. If about half of the goods crossing the border are actually produced in Northern Ireland, not brought in from outside, then obviously the present import control approach cannot provide more than half of the solution, in fact it could be described as a half-baked solution. I’m somewhat surprised that MPs still have not seen this and pressed for a change.

    2. Peter Wood
      July 22, 2022

      Nigl,
      Excellent post, agree with every word. How do we get the change in taxing and spending mindset? Well, it’s not pretty; it’s called a severe recession. I see no other solution. Western governments have been putting one off for the last 20 years or so when they found that they could just ‘print more cash’ . We now see that brings more problems and solves nothing.
      An economic recession is like a wildfire in the Rockies, it clears out the old deadwood and makes room for recovery and new growth. We deserately need to slim down and clear out the dead wood in the civil service.

  7. Donna
    July 22, 2022

    The unamended NI Protocol is how both the EU and the Remainer British Establishment intend to keep the UK as closely aligned to the EU as possible, with a view to rejoining when they think they can get away with it.

    They, and in particularly the unelected, unaccountable House of Frauds, will do everything they can to delay and ultimately prevent the proposed legislation from proceeding.

    And STILL the CON Government will refuse to reform, let alone abolish, the House of Frauds.

    1. Dave Andrews
      July 22, 2022

      Rejoining the EU is a forlorn hope of the EUphiles. Do they propose to achieve it via a referendum? Perhaps 10% of the electorate share their ambition and an equal number hate the EU, with the remaining 80% having an opinion either way or just don’t care. Hardly the basis for a programme to rejoin.
      Can they understand that the British membership of the EU was so uncomfortable while it continued, and it is best for all that membership not be reinstated?
      Plus there’s the matter of the requirement to ditch sterling and adopt the Euro, which in turn means satisfying the Maastricht requirement for 60% debt to GDP ratio. No prospect for achieving that in the near future, and them’s the rules.

  8. cuibono
    July 22, 2022

    Oh for goodness sake! That EU!!
    Let’s just go and proclaim something or other in Calais shall we?
    Shove a Union Jack or two in the ground.
    Make up a few spurious rules about exporting cheese.
    Set up a border…no scrub that …no one does borders.. except in NI.

    1. hefner
      July 22, 2022

      But first wait at least five hours in Dover before crossing.

      1. cuibono
        July 22, 2022

        +1
        Nope.
        It will be done in style.
        Dinghies with escort all the way!

      2. Peter2
        July 22, 2022

        CEO of Dover Port says problem is due to lack of staff on the French side.

        1. Bill brown
          July 22, 2022

          Peter 2

          You are badly informed as usual.
          It was lack of French staff in Dover not Calais.

          1. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            On the French side doesn’t mean Calais bill.
            I never said Calais nor did I mean Calais
            Unlike you I had read the words of the Dover CEO.
            Yet again your lack of comprehension and your hurry to post lets you down.
            But at least you agree whose fault it is.

  9. Jason
    July 22, 2022

    A few things

    We did not take back control – not fully – because we agreed this protocol which allows NI to be treated differently – we agreed it, we signed off on it and passed it in the Houses.

    With UK unilaterally legislating on this matter now it will be seen by all reasonable people as an attempt to bully our way to get what we want instead of negotiating – I say reasonable people because there is nothing reasonable about this legislation which is coming straight from the ERG wing who have probably calculated that there will be no consequences – but they are wrong – there will be massive consequences.

    Next there is no good advice coming from the DUP ever – they are naysayers, a lot of them creationists, in the camp of No Surrender, devoid of any vision for a future outside of marching in their neighbours backyards and building bonfires

    Lastly I see we are back to the “backstop” again – I thought that that proposal was roundly dismissd during Mrs May’s time. Have to say I find this mornings piece by JR as one track, fanciful and delusional it will get us nowhere except another nail in the UK coffin

    1. Denis Cooper
      July 22, 2022

      It will be an uphill struggle to convince reasonable people that we are reasonable while the EU is unreasonable.

  10. Berkshire Alan
    July 22, 2022

    Why are the Northern Irish Politicians not directly involved in these negotiations.
    I am aware they are consulted, but likewise often ignored, it is after all their patch, for which they are responsible (at present under UK law)
    Surely If Northern Ireland wishes to exceed to EU Control, then clearly they cannot be part of UK Government at the same time, and still take all of the funding from the UK.
    The time, effort and money being wasted on this is frightening.
    All because neither side want to draw a line in the proper place to designate a border.

  11. ChrisS
    July 22, 2022

    Where we are with NI is deeply unsatisfactory but the responsibility lies with the overwhelming number of Remainers in the last Parliament who, with the encouragement of Brussels, did everything they could to undermine the referendum result. I include the former Prime Minister in that criticism.
    Remainers even pushed through legislation to prevent us leaving without a deal. There could have been nothing more damaging to our negotiating strategy than that !
    Boris and Lord Frost did the best they could with a very poor hand and so we are where we are.
    In the absence of any give from Brussels, the Protocol bill is the only solution available to us.

    1. Shirley M
      July 22, 2022

      + many ChrisS

      It beggars belief that many UK politicians were allowed to defy the electorates votes, ignore democracy and deliberately damage the UK in the negotiations, yet they try to blame Brexit for the resultant bad deal. They should have been been charged with something (maybe something beginning with a t). If they don’t agree with democracy (unless the ‘right’ result is achieved) then maybe they should forego their democratically elected seats!

  12. Lifelogic
    July 22, 2022

    Exactly. Let us hope Truss can resolve this once she wins the leadership.

    Long interview of Sunak by lefty BBC think Marr on LBC. He is polished, but has the wrong policies and history to win an election. Judge me on my record he says, no tax cuts and even more net zero. Your record is as an appalling, inflationary, tax to death, borrow, print and waste Chancellor Sunak. A family not even particularly attached to the UK it seems. Also a man of religious faith it seems rarely encouraging I find. Talking of religion he will stick to net zero rip off energy as his 9 and 11 year old children keep asking him about climate change. Doubtless they have been frightened by the endless propaganda from government, the BBC and schools. Rather a viscous circle. Scare the kids to death then follow policies they and Greta types push for!

    1. turboterrier
      July 22, 2022

      Lifelogic
      Talking of religion he will stick to Net Zero..
      On the net and twitter there is an interview by CNN with John Coleman founder of the Weather Channel in America. When asked about his views which are in total contrast to 97% of the scientists and green reporters. His reply is very revealing in that a lot on this site are not wrong with their “follow the money” battlecry. The US government gives out $2.5bn a year to the scientists, researchers and reporters to those with Democratic leanings and supporters of global warming. That is why there is no properly balanced unbiased debate by or in the media. So the old adage that big fleas have little fleas ensures their momentum and finances are never lost.

      1. glen cullen
        July 22, 2022

        Ford preparing to lay off 8,000 employees as the automaker pivots to the electric vehicle (EV) market. https://www.webpronews.com/ford-may-lay-off-8000-to-fund-ev-development/?fbclid=IwAR3HbyXMV_FUpnJaJ9BcYMiLfE9-uoF0ANvOPiOe04XdVe9icrD4ZUsgHYk
        Its just the start of the dark ages

  13. Lifelogic
    July 22, 2022

    So the Chief Inspector of Borders points out that many of the illegal migrants being ferried over the channel by Border Force are not even having their biometrics recorded before they abscond. Great plan!

  14. Bill brown
    July 22, 2022

    Sir JR

    Interesting perspective but not necessarily the one that will serve NI and the UK best
    We know how emotional you are about the EU the past many decades, so rational arguments won’t work.
    The legislation will take time, we are still negotiating with the EU. A majority of people in NI support the protocol
    NI is growing faster than the rest of the UK and the accord still stands.
    This legislation will not solve the devolved government problem.
    And we need a different more constructive dialogue with our friends in Europe, which Johnson has ruined, like our reputation abroad.

    1. Denis Cooper
      July 22, 2022

      If you had your way the UK would still be trying to negotiate with the EU after we’d all passed on … how many times do your friends in the EU have to say it so you will believe it, that they will not change the protocol?

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2022/06/30/the-eu-expands-its-foreign-policy/#comment-1326424

      “No change to EU mandate over NI Protocol negotiations”

      “Germany’s ambassador to the EU has said member states will not change the mandate of chief negotiator Maroš Šefčovič to renegotiate the Northern Ireland Protocol.

      Michael Clauss has said that EU capitals were unanimous in believing that the Protocol should not be renegotiated.”

      1. Bill brown
        July 22, 2022

        Denis

        You can also negotiate on interpretation of the protocol

        1. Denis Cooper
          July 22, 2022

          Which will never be enough to solve the problems with it, as proved by eighteen months of trying.

          Eventually the EU will agree to re-open the protocol, but only when forced to do so.

    2. Peter2
      July 22, 2022

      A few days ago bill, you actually wrote that the EU had no intention of changing the Northern Ireland Protocol.

      1. Bill brown
        July 22, 2022

        Peter 2
        I didn’t write that, it was your interpretation, but you can negotiate interpretations as well

        1. Peter2
          July 22, 2022

          Oh yes you did billy
          July 16th in reply to Sir John you said
          “Once again the EU and the Irish government are not interested in breaking the Northern Ireland agreement nor in undermining it….”

          1. bill brown
            July 22, 2022

            This is the NI Agreement not the protocl

          2. Bill brown
            July 22, 2022

            Peter, 2

            I was referring to the NI agreement not the Protocol
            But you concluded wrong again.

          3. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            You are being pedantic beyond belief billy

  15. Walt
    July 22, 2022

    Sir John. Why do we have the NI Protocol? Why could not the UK leave the EU as one sovereign nation and be treated as such, stating that we would monitor NI-Republic cross-border traffic electronically with no physical barriers at that border?

    1. Paulo
      July 22, 2022

      How can you check electronically if meat is beef or horse? Fresh or rotten?

      1. Peter2
        July 22, 2022

        A)it’s a criminal offence sell horse meat labelled a beef..you can end up in jail.
        B) it happens inside the Single Market.
        C) trade is between suppliers and customers It is for the two parties to manage the legality and quality of the goods they contract together
        D) have you any recent examples of such illegal meat being smuggled over the Irish border?

      2. Fedupsoutherner
        July 22, 2022

        How did we manage exports and imports before?

      3. X-Tory
        July 22, 2022

        That is done at the point of sale, obviously, just as now. *Roll eyes*

        Those who support the Protocol always come up with the most idiotic objections to scrapping it!

    2. Denis Cooper
      July 22, 2022

      Because on March 2 2018 Theresa May gratuitously accepted responsibility for ensuring that the Irish government and the EU would not fortify their side of the border, and they proceeded to reject out of hand perfectly reasonable proposals for collaborative solutions in order to impose what they wanted and otherwise would not have agreed to that all important trade deal. It was stupid for the UK government under Theresa May to accept that when the trade deal would have been worth maybe 2% of GDP, and even more stupid when the UK government under Boris Johnson accepted a trade deal worth much less than that. But this is the Tories, it is engrained in them that trade deals are always good and extremely valuable. This is why the threat that the US will not give us a special trade deal unless we behave ourselves carries so much weight and is repeated again and again, even though the economic value to the UK of any such deal would be somewhere on the left hand side of a scale running from “negligible” through “trivial” to “marginal”:

      https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2021/09/24/the-problems-with-the-single-market/#comment-1262165

      1. Walt
        July 22, 2022

        Thank you, Denis

  16. glen cullen
    July 22, 2022

    Agree SirJ, we need some bold action, lets scrape the WA & NIP

    Also did we just have the shortest heat-wave in history

    1. Graham
      July 22, 2022

      The heatwave was sent to us by the EU definitely and no doubt as a warm up for what is to come if we misbehave – so am quite sure they have other means as well to show us if they are not happy with the way we are conducting ourselves post brexit.

      Therefore like all good newly independent ex-colonies we should keep our heads down and speak only when spoken to –

    2. Mickey Taking
      July 23, 2022

      Climate Change Crisis now over….. back to ‘weather’.

      1. glen cullen
        July 23, 2022

        Your right Mickey…its freezing

  17. Peter2
    July 22, 2022

    You can see by the number of posts by all the pro EU rejoiners and socialists on here, that the change to the Northern Ireland Protocol is needed and will be one more giant step away from the EU having control over us.
    Their anger confirms that the Government is (at last) moving in the right direction.

    1. Bill brown
      July 22, 2022

      Peter 2

      Your interpretation of pro-EU equals socialist tells us more about your degree of sophistication than anything else

      1. Peter2
        July 22, 2022

        Read it again I didn’t actually say that.
        pro EU rejoiners…..and…..socialists on here.

        It is your weak grasp of comprehension that is unsophisticated billy.

        1. bill brown
          July 22, 2022

          you usually use them as one

          1. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            No I dont.
            Although it is demonstrable that many in the EU are left wing .

          2. hefner
            July 23, 2022

            And how do you demonstrate that, please?
            Are the French ‘Les Républicains ’, German CDU/CSU, Netherlands’ PVV, Austrian FPÖ, Italian Lega … or the ECR and ID groups of parties in the European Parliament left wing?

          3. Peter2
            July 23, 2022

            That’s why I said “many” hef not all.
            You and bill seem to be struggling with basic comprehension in your haste to post against me.
            Maybe calm down a bit?

          4. hefner
            July 23, 2022

            Looking at the frequency of his posts and the increasingly weak (if such a thing is possible) content of those, it is clear P2 never shoots from the hip, doesn’t he?

        2. Peter2
          July 23, 2022

          Usual personal attack when you argument fails heffy.
          Surely you can do better you and bill?

          1. hefner
            July 24, 2022

            I hope you realise that your original point ‘many in the EU are left wing’ does not bring any information. One could say that of any democratic elected assembly, there would be people from ‘right to left’ in various numbers.

            You seem quite good at breaking down open doors. But keep on the good work P2, you’re a real gas gas gas ( ©️ M.Jagger, K.Richards )

          2. Peter2
            July 25, 2022

            I’m one of your pedantic grumpy moods again heffy.
            You must be a real fun guy to meet.
            Maybe a nice new hobby might fill your time better.

          3. Peter2
            July 25, 2022

            typo
            In one of your…

    2. Denis Cooper
      July 22, 2022

      Correct.

      1. Peter2
        July 22, 2022

        Thank you Denis
        May I also take this moment to thank you for your excellent factual posts on this subject.

  18. turboterrier
    July 22, 2022

    Today out walking the dog and was asked about the forth coming leaders vote.
    I do not have a vote as I am happier being a supporter than getting into cheek by jowl arguement about policies.
    I mentioned your diary. You are in her eyes a “,raving right wing lunatic” I had great delight in telling her I am an avid reader of your blog and suggested she might learn a few things from it as we parted company. Fame at last in rural Shropshire!!!

  19. James1
    July 22, 2022

    We have said that we will not erect a border. If the EU wants a border let them erect one. It’s their problem not ours.

    1. turboterrier
      July 22, 2022

      James 1
      Exactly, well said.
      Thank god for common sense

  20. X-Tory
    July 22, 2022

    Sir John, you say: “It is right and it is legal that we legislate within the terms of the protocol”, but actually the only acceptable solution is to SCRAP THE PROTOCOL entirely. It is offensive to the sovereignty of the UK. I cannot understand why you fail to see this. Does the US give Canada any power or control or influence over Alaska? Trying to ‘fix’ the Protocol is just so much wasted time and effort. Scrapping it is the simplest and most efficient solution. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and should therefore be ruled by the UK, with NO interference whatsoever from ANY foreign body. Anyone who supports the Protocol is an enemy of the Union, and of British sovereignty and independence in general.

    Reply I lost the argument to leave on WTO terms

    1. glen cullen
      July 22, 2022

      Right to reply
      SirJ you didn’t lose the argument to leave on WTO terms with the people that voted leave at the referendum…you lost the argument with your own MPs that probably voted remain

Comments are closed.