Yesterday I debated the state of Britain with Hazel Blears and the Young Fabians in a Committee Room at the Commons.
Mrs Blears did what Labour now always does. She personalised the whole debate to me. She laced her remarks with personal abuse towards me, and ascribed views to me I have never held. Her two favourite lies were that I wanted to sack teachers, nurses and doctors, and I wanted to deregulate mortgage banks.
Back in the Commons Chamber, the Prime Minister was busily misrepresenting Conservative views. He accused David Cameron of changing his mind on borrowing, unable to distinguish between David’s remarks on the natural rise in borrowing that a recession causes (which David accepts),and the additional rise in borrowing that the PM is advocating as a matter of policy (which David opposes). For good measure the PM repeated the point about deregulation and the Conservative party Policy Review.
I asked him why he fails to quote the advice in the Economic Policy Report to strengthen capital adequacy regulation of the banks,and to strengthen the role of the Bank of Englandas the controller and supporter of the banks. As he seems to like quoting the Report so much, it is such a pity he leaves out the best bits. If he had followed the advice, we would not have seen a run on Northern Rock, and taxpayers would now be a lot better off.
Listening to Labour figures, they sound as if they think the Conservatives have been in offcie and are to blame for this crisis. I don’t think that’s how the public sees it!
November 18, 2008
John, like the story of the scorpion and the frog, for Labour lying is in their very nature. They just can't help it.
November 18, 2008
The truth is we just don't get a real debate from Labour. Gordon Brown, each week at PMQs, bases defence of his economy on contrasting it with unemployment figures from 25 years ago and interest rates from 15 years ago etc.
This is pathetic, lazy reasoning, but in a way its all that Gordon Brown has got because Labour are approaching their 12th year in office and really don't have anyone else to blame for our nation's economic woes. So each PMQs Brown digs deep into the vault for some muck to throw, the tragedy is that the media never pulls him up on this. In what other sphere of public life would 25 year old data be considered relevant?
November 18, 2008
Good job last night – I thoroughly enjoyed the debate. Hazel Blears spent most of her speech telling us what a completely hypothetical Conservative government would not have done after 1997 – the Conservatives wouldn't have built any schools, we wouldn't we have built any hospitals blah blah blah….
If that's the only way the government can defend themselves against the charge that society is broken, the Conservatives have won the argument.
http://www.lettersfromatory.com
November 18, 2008
Rosie Winterton was the same. Labour can't win the debate through logic or reason, so smear and misrepresentation are their debating tools of choice.
November 18, 2008
Back down the postings, I argued for separating the "Executive" from the "Legislature". Your encounter with said lady yesterday, demonstrates my point in spades.
Most NuLabour MPs reach their level of incompetence when they are elected to the local council. They, most likely, only worked for a council before that, though not always as Solicitors who could not get into a private practise partnership. Few are Cabinet material. At times you have to bring in dodgy characters and make them Lords; just to up the brain cell count in your Cabinet.
Obama, is currently appointing his Cabinet and West Wing staff – about a thousand I think. He can pick from the finest talent available in the US, some will take major pay cuts to do the jobs. Some will be political pay-backs to please the party and the electorate. Congress will not be happy with some and have constitutional ways of showing it.
Compare that to the UK (lack of) democratic process. I rest my case m'lud.
November 18, 2008
I trust you swotted the Chipmunk back with a large dose of the truth. Oddly enough I think the fact that things have got so personal and Labour are resorting to the tactic of blaming Cameron/Osborne/Redwood/anybody else except Gordon for the parlous state of the economy is a sign of panic setting in. In the end, most of the eleectorate will see through this nonsense for what it is.
Having said that, I notice that Osborne has come out fighting in the last few days. A little late, I feel, but nevertheless a good start. Having taken enormous fire from many within the Party, myself included, George Osborne seems to have suffered his Tobruk and is now fairly well placed to engineer his Alamein. But he is going to need the full time attention of the rest of the shadow front bench in support. We now need to see a constant bombardment of the media by the Tories exposing Labour's mismanagement of the entire country. Who knows, once the polls turn again, maybe even the BBC will see which way the wind bloweth and devotes some time to airing Conservative views a little more objectively than has been the case for the last decade or so.
November 18, 2008
Listening to Labour figures, they sound as if they think the Conservatives have been in offcie and are to blame for this crisis. I don’t think that’s how the public sees it!
I would not bet too much on that assumption, according to the recent polls, the public obviously do not believe Labour is to blame, might be something to do with them acting as if they were the party of opposition.
November 18, 2008
Likewise, make no assumption with so called 'polls'. Percentages cannot be determined in the absence of 100% population participation. For this reason, Obama said he dismissed unreliable pollsters and focussed on the task in hand.
November 18, 2008
We, or some of us at least, know that Brown and co are unreliable witnesses when it comes to describing their own policies (pledge to hold a referendum on the Lisbon treaty comes to mind) let alone Conservative or LibDem policies. The only answer is regular and prompt rebuttal of the lies – tedious though this may be – and cogent statements of what your policies actually are.
November 18, 2008
Hazel Blears and the young fabians seemed to have no knowledge of the world around them at all last night. All I heard from them was smugness and bare faced lies, at one point miss Blears said she lived on planet Earth and I even found that hard to believe.
November 18, 2008
I always look at the letters on ceefax and I am amazed that people are still writing in in support of the idiot Brown. The only reason I can think of is that the Tory front bench seems so ineffective. In the old days we seemed to have characters that had some presence, now I'm afraid they all appear to be clones.
There must be some heavyweights on the back benches or is the house of commons completely emasculated?
November 18, 2008
Nulabour employs a vast contingent of 'keyboard monkeys' – pa'troll'ers' for this exact purpose. Nothing's ever as it appears with this spinning, manipulative body calling itself 'government'. It seems it's sole aim is to lie to those it's elected to serve – democratically.
November 18, 2008
Perhaps the Conservatives should learn from labour's tactics over the last 11 years, and start misrepresenting them.
November 18, 2008
Obama did the right thing – he said people didn't want 'dirty tricks' and rose above it; he wisely acknowledged people wanted policies and leadership.
November 18, 2008
Indeed, but in McCain, Obama had a very honourable rival, who refused to be negative himself.
Unfortunately, negative campaigning and dirty tricks normally work.
The 2004 US Presidential election is a good example of both.
The British Conservatives are just too soft.
November 21, 2008
Live debates and interviews prove otherwise with all your assertions. The Opposition Party, like Obama, focuses on the job in hand – working for the good of the nation amid financial meltdown caused by others' gross maladministration.
November 18, 2008
Well said JR! There’s no point mincing words.
There’s a difference between taking a different view on policy and downright lying about the views of others. The Labour Party has chosen the latter path in the debate about the current financial crisis, augmented by disgraceful ad hominen attacks on anyone who dares to offer alternative viewpoints or solutions.
This figures, as thanks to the Labour Party’s mismanagement of the economy under ‘Enron Brown’ Britain being less well placed than other nations to ride out the crisis.
The Labour Party is well noted for its financial incompetence at all levels so I guess it’s easier for party apparatchiks like Blears to throw mud at other people rather than address issues they don’t really understand.
These strategies will backfire on Brown, who is out of touch with reality, surrounded as he is by sycophants. Put simply, the Labour Party underestimates the common sense of the British public, most of whom have a better grasp of financial reality than those in government! The public is waking up the Labour Government’s nonsense and I sense a backlash against Brown is imminent.
November 18, 2008
Blears is obviously going to be a bit out of her depth debating you John, hence she’s forced to resort to personal attacks. She’d struggle to run a corner shop.
November 18, 2008
Actually, I confess that I am coming to admire George Osborne and Mr Cameron.
Both depend on words to survive and there is no point in speaking until people are listening. Timing, as someone once remarked, is everything. They do at least wait until that moment.
This morning in the gym, I forgot to bring my earpieces and so missed Mr Cameron on Sky. However, reading the “BREAKING NEWS” as it scrolled up, I could see that he was (at last) making the right noises.
Nobody else in the gym seemed to be watching it, though.
It would be awfully nice if some of the Tory “Big Beasts” got to share a go at the microphone more often, I think.
November 18, 2008
Lies and deciet to hide their failings. Seems to be working at present very well indeed. At least your man has now started up on the offensive again.
November 18, 2008
with apologies for spelling deceit wrong. I am nothing without spellcheck.
November 18, 2008
Labour are just so low. They will say and do anything to avoid the truth. I am so pleased that Cameron has said this about Browns further spending and borrowing. The public are not mugs they know you do not get something for nothing. Lets have clears blue water between the parties.
November 18, 2008
As a student and now a young adult I have always faced exactly the same sort of debate from the left wing no matter what the topic is. They tell you and those around what your (alleged) own beliefs are and if that fails they throw a false generalisation of what the Conservative party believe to further their attack. They all rely on the same prejudice that we in the Conservative party are uncaring individuals and as long as they blindly believe this they refuse to enter any real debate.
I rather hoped that as they grow more mature so would their style of debate, this sadly does not appear to happen.
November 18, 2008
You didn't expect an honest and intelligent debate with Hazel Blears, did you John?
November 18, 2008
The Nu Liebour party has to be made up of the most discredited group of politicians that have ever sat in the commons. Why tell the truth when you can lie? The debasing of honest political argument under Nu Liebour has plumbed new depths.
I can never understand what people mean when they say Mandy is a fantastic political operator. Anyone can lie, distort, threaten, posture etc. There is zero skill in that. Of course the Tories have not been assisted by an outrageously biased media who seem to be paid up Nu Liebour members. The way the focus has been put on George Osborne is just staggering.
My political views are based on pragmatism. You cannot spend more than you earn. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You have to accept responsibility for your own actions. If you are in the poo it's up to you to get yourself out. The world is not fair. Utopia does not exist, and never will. The whole Nu Liebour project has been based on a fantasy world where everything is possible, where you can have your cake and eat it, where rights takes precedence over responsibilities. It's been a monumental con trick. Nothing more than smoke and mirrors. But these are desperate people who will resort to the lowest of tricks to hang onto power.
Hopefully the electorate are wise enough to see through the denials and lies of Brown. I sincerely hope so. The time has come for the opposition to speak with one voice. To tell the country exactly who is responsible for the mess we are in.
The cupboard is bare. The Big Girls Blouse is not the person to restock it!!!!!!
November 18, 2008
"I always look at the letters on ceefax …" (John)
I love the paradox of a blogger reading letters on 'ceefax'.
As for New Labour lies, people are falling for them, if people didn't fall for them they wouldn't bother telling them and making themselves sound so silly to any right-minded person who bothers to try and keep up.
So hopefully Cameron's statement today might have clawed a few of those stragglers back.
November 18, 2008
John, you should be careful. These lies can stick, indeed they did in 2005.
The only core competence of the New Labour gang has been media and public opinion manipulation. 2005 showed how good they are at it.
You must respond and rebut every lie with vigour and outrage. I've notice a set debating style in senior Labour politicians, they always interrupt other when they are making good points and like Brown they hide lies within lies – for example his accusation that George Osborn was attacking the economy, then he was warning about government policy.
They are devious snakes.
November 19, 2008
Mr Redwood,
Someone needs to set the record straight about the allegation that you recommended the deregulation of mortgages.
Google searches throw up any number of responses to your name and this proposal: a large cluster around August 2007 e.g. an organisation called Mortgage Strategy on 20th August 2007 " A Conservative Party think tank has called for mortgage regulation to be scrapped"and more recently Johan Hari of the Independent : "(Cameron's)Competitiveness spokesman has suggested copying the US deregulation of mortgages" .
I would surmise that political researchers are providing your opponents with quotes like these.
DBC Reed
November 19, 2008
The title of your piece – 'More Labour Lies – It's all they have left' – got me thinking.
Are you tribal about Labour? I mean, do you feel that they are the scum of the earth and should be destroyed? Rather as I understand that Brown feels about Tories.
Or are you just exasperated by this Government's version of Socialism (as in Socialism Not) and the deceit by which it has plied its trade? In other words you do not hate Socialists as such, holding perhaps that it is a political philosophy with an honourable intent (fatally flawed of course) whose best purpose is to illuminate by comparison the better and more rational alternatives, but you are finally fed up with the awful and deceitful behaviour of the current government?
Reply: I think the socialist strand of thought is a part of vibrant democracy. I just dislike people who deliberately misrepresent the views of their opponents in an effort to stifle debate, instead of welcoming a proper democractic debate about which is the better policy or idea.
November 19, 2008
It is wrong to hate people – anyone. It is wrong to attack the man, not the ball.
The trouble is that Socialism has certain characteristics: It believes that human nature is perfectable, if necessary by force and by control by a few "cadres".
Socialists believe in the overwhelming power of the State, during the lead up to the coming of Communism. Socialism allows dictatorship, when that becomes necessary to bring about perfection in humankind. Socialism is not necessarily democratic at all.
Socialists believe in excluding other class movements from power by any means to hand, often quite ruthlessly. Family, children's upbringing and education, religion, art and any form of culture are to be swept away and "improved" by the state. Family, religion etc are seen as part of the class war, to be controlled by the State.
Socialists also believe in revolution, in the sense that the future, not the past, is the place to look for inspiration. Old institutions should be swept away, if necessary by force. Parliament (both houses), the Queen, the army, the are all part of this debunking.
I am afraid, that at the end of the day, we humans just are not perfectable. So all the force in the world does not achieve anything much except for abject misery.
I do not think, myself, that the complete chaos left by every single Labour government in their existence has been a fluke: I think it comes with the package. It has been deliberate.
that is why I shall be very pleased when the lib Dems become the loyal opposition.
November 20, 2008
Yep, it's the basic paradox of the leftites. If they hold that mankind is imperfetct and must be forced to be perfect according to rules set by them, who are also part of mankind their rules by association must also be imperfect. And BANG! up they go in a puff of logic.
November 19, 2008
Thank you. Me too.
November 20, 2008
I hope in the near future the bbc is made to live in unbiased real world
November 20, 2008
Just watching the G20 summit system. Gordon is unbelieveable. He is feeling confident again accusing the conservatives of everything he is guilty of.
Funny that Gordon has found a sudden interest in tax cuts. Once he found out the G20 and IMF were going to put it forward.
Also it is funny to see Gordon defend himself by the IMF, first of all its Gordon who tailored his policy to agree with the IMF not the other way around.
Secondly, i thought the IMF was the enemy which promoted Thatcherism.
And PM why has the pound collapsed? He cant answer.
He doesnt know why the credit crunch happened either.
He is lost and confused.
He is a globalist who looks for global solutions to everything, not British solutions.
He doesnt deserve to be PM.
November 20, 2008
I think it is symptomatic of just how the politics of the UK has become debased by the likes of Hazel Blears when you see how many people who fail to turn out at election time. We are disillusioned by the sheer mediocrity of most of the government but the opposition to my mind lacks the ruthlessness needed to consign Labour and socialism to the scrap yard.
When I was young I looked up to politicians assuming that they had been well educated and were intelligent people by and large. However I recently came across an article in the Telegraph by Douglas Alexander. He claimed that Brown and Labour could win the next election. The article was absolute drivel and I felt could have been written far better by a fifth form schoolboy/girl. The Tories need to do better and need to rise above the childishness of Labour.