I am for once reproducing the government’s words and analysis as I think readers might find it interesting:
“The independent migration statistics for the year ending June 2013 were published (yesterday) by the Office for National Statistics. They show that our reforms are working, and that immigration is continuing to fall. Net migration from non-EU nationals is down 19 per cent year-on-year, and 36 per cent from its peak in 2010. Last year there were nearly 100,000 fewer people immigrating to the UK than in 2010.
However, whilst net migration is down by nearly a third since its peak in 2010, today’s statistics also show the challenges we still face. In the year to June 2013, annual net migration stood at 182,000. This is a reduction of nearly a third since its peak in 2010, when it stood at 255,000, but it represents an unwelcome increase in net migration in the last year – and it is still too high. So it is important to look in detail at the statistics to see why the successive falls in net migration appear to have stopped.
What is clear is that where the Government can control net migration – i.e. immigration from outside the European Union – our policies are working. Net migration from outside the EU continues to fall sharply. It is down from 218,000 since its peak in 2010, and from 172,000 last year, to 140,000 this year. And it is driven by consecutive reductions in gross immigration.
But the statistics also show that emigration – not just of British people but of foreign nationals who have come here legally – has fallen dramatically: emigration is now at its lowest level since 2001. There has also been a rise in immigration from Western Europe. Net migration from the ‘EU15’ countries[1] increased from 32,000 in the year ending June 2012 to 52,000 in the year ending June 2013. More than half of this is accounted for by an 11,000 increase in the number of Spanish nationals immigrating to the UK for work purposes (up from 7,000 to 18,000).
Other key points to note from today’s statistics:
• Net migration from outside the EU continues to fall – it is down from 218,000 since its peak in 2010 (and from 172,000 last year) to 140,000 this year. This has been driven by consecutive reductions in gross immigration from outside the EU, which now stands at its lowest level since 1998.
• We have tightened the rules for family visas, and family immigration is down – by one fifth since 2010.
we are cracking down on abuse …
• We have ended the industrial-scale abuse of the student visa system we saw under Labour. We have closed down hundreds of bogus colleges, strengthened the English language requirement, and brought in new restrictions on the right to work and bring dependents. As a result, student immigration is down – by almost a third – since 2010.
… whilst attracting the brightest and best:
• At the same time, we have protected genuine students. University sponsored applications are up 7 per cent compared to last year – with an increase in the number of study visas issued to Chinese citizens (up 8 per cent) and Malaysians (up 27 per cent).
• There is no limit on the number of students who can come to the UK. All those who can speak English, have sufficient funds and qualifications, and can get a place on a genuine course can come to study in this country. And those who can get a graduate job earning more than £20,300 can stay to work after their studies.
• We can see strong growth in tourist and business visitors, with an increase of 15 per cent in visitor visas granted over last year, and rises of 40 per cent or more for China, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates.
• Our immigration reforms are supporting British jobs and growth. Under Labour, in the five years to December 2008, more than 90 per cent of the increase in employment was accounted for by foreign nationals. But the labour market statistics released on 13 November show that the total growth in employment since the beginning of the parliament was 1,167,000 – 79 per cent of which is accounted for by UK nationals.
The Immigration Bill continues to build on our reforms
As today’s figures show, it will take time to clear up the mess we inherited from Labour, and we need to continue the reforms we have introduced since 2010. The Home Secretary and I are working with our Ministerial colleagues across the Government to protect public services and to ensure that our welfare system is not open to abuse.
The Immigration Bill, which is currently before Parliament, will make it more difficult for people to live in the UK unlawfully, ensure that immigrants make a fair contribution to our key public services, and make it easier to remove people who have no right to be in this country.
Fixing EU immigration
This week, the Prime Minister set out his long-term plan to fix EU immigration – and to control immigration from Romania and Bulgaria.
In 2004, the Labour Government made the decision that the UK should opt out of transitional controls on the new EU member states. They had the right to impose a seven-year ban before new citizens could come and work here, but Labour refused it. And when Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU, Labour had not learned the lesson. The other major lesson they didn’t learn was that failures in immigration policy were closely linked to welfare and education – if it does not pay to work, or if British people lack skills, that creates a huge space in our labour market for people from overseas to fill. As the Prime Minister announced this week, the Government is:
• training British people to fill those jobs by providing record numbers of apprenticeships, demanding rigour in schools, and building a welfare system that encourages work;
• changing the rules so that no one who comes to this country will be able to claim work benefits for the first three months. If, after three months, an EU national needs benefits they will only be able to claim for a maximum of six months unless they can prove they have a genuine prospect of employment;
• putting in place a new minimum earnings threshold, below which migrants cannot access to benefits such as income support;
• not allowing newly-arrived EU jobseekers to claim housing benefit;
• removing people who are not here to work and are begging or sleeping rough: they will be barred from re-entry for 12 months unless they can prove they have a proper reason to be here, such as a job; and
• clamping down on those who employ people below the minimum wage with a fine of up to £20,000 for every underpaid employee – more than four times the fine today.
As the Prime Minister also said, we believe it is time for a new settlement which recognises that, although free movement is a central principle of the EU, it cannot be an unqualified one. So, as part of our plan to reform the EU, we will work with others to return the concept of free movement to a more sensible basis. We will then let Britain decide by putting that reformed Europe to the British people in an in-out referendum. ”
(Based on a brief to MPs)
November 29, 2013
“plan to reform the EU”?
All these UK government plans mentioned can already be carried out under existing EU regulations. Why the populist fuss in UK media? I don’t quite understand. Which of the measures mentioned cannot be taken yet?
November 29, 2013
For once Peter you are correct. In reality there is just under one year to go before the general election because of campaigning etc. Cameron is a dead duck and will try to grab any straw to give any faint credibility to his term in office. This week we have two more U-turns, cigarette packaging and Davey writing to the energy companies to lower prices. Why has it taken four years for the Tory led coalition to try to reduce energy prices when it knew when it know the problem when came to office. The Number one priority, the economy? Fixated with green religion Cameron ignored the public’s plight and that of business for a gimmick. Now realising the totally lack of substance in the gimmick he now changes tack. The man’s judgement is utterly useless. This being demonstrated on a monthly basis. Once more, following another Miliband suggestion after insulting him each week. Four years in he now starts to think about immigration solutions…. Beggars belief.
November 29, 2013
Unfortunately, all highly predictable and predicted by lots of us years ago, hence his nickname ‘Cast Elastic’….
zorro
November 30, 2013
Hope
Have to agree.
Better late than never, and all this is fine, but complicated.
We simply need to stop people coming here in the first place, from anywhere, unless we want or need them.
Not sure if we are counting them in and counting them out, but if not this is yet another hole in the system for time limited entry visas, holiday or work.
Can hardly be said Government has only just found out about the problem can it !
November 30, 2013
As Cameron is usually 180 degrees out on most issues then the more U turns he does the better. It seem we are making progress slowly on the green c***, immigration and he occasionally says sensible thinks on the EU but he is surely dead in the water having given away any little credibility he had even before he threw away the last “there for the taking” election.
November 29, 2013
Peter,
The following from the Telegraph:
“Standard & Poor’s has stripped the Netherlands of its AAA credit rating, saying that the country’s growth prospects have deteriorated and it is not performing as well as peers.”
I am sure you won’t attribute any of this to your beloved EU or your country’s eurozone membership despite the fact that only three eurozone countries now remain with AAA ratings from S&P – Germany, Finland and Luxembourg.
November 29, 2013
It is always more difficult to defend a government than to attack it. Your figures as always are meticulous and indeed impressive – especially when they are all added together. It is good to see the immigration flood being very slowly – and carefully – turned off.
The real test is out here in the provinces. Is there any evidence of what you are talking about? Yup. The local Comprehensive has been transformed. The local College has been given a lot of new buildings. My next door neighbour’s teenage son is learning the trade which he wants to learn with a view to finding a specific job. The flood of immigrants seems to be ceasing and the ones we have got are becoming English.
So for all the old grumblers on this blog – chin up! We must unite the right if the coming election is not going to be handed to Unite.
November 29, 2013
No the figures cannot be said to be accurate. There is no accurate means of counting people I n or out of the country. This point has been made by astute commentators. If there is please share it with us. This is at best a good guess. It would be better to have a ticker counter at each port of entry than the system currently in position. They also have no reliable means of deporting anyone ie lost asylum seekers by the hundreds of thousands, criminals who subsequently have an EU right to family life to stay even if they do not live with their family! I think this is likely to be the best scenario the government can offer. Do not forget we had the Treasury and ONS claiming we needed more immigration.
November 29, 2013
I suspect the figure are even less accurate than reported crime figures are.
November 29, 2013
Indeed, they rely on the highly ropey ‘International Passenger Survey’ which is based on voluntary interviews…..Are all the ‘visitors’ leaving at the end of their stay….they do not know. The net migration figure is going up based on the last two quarters, and will continue going up post Jan 2014….
zorro
November 29, 2013
Using the Governments own best guestimates we actually had 503,000 immigrants last year. 183,000 from the EU and the rest from around the globe. Then we take off our highly skilled and trained who leave. Mainly to English speaking Countries.
The largest non EU Group were 40,000 from China and 37,000 from India.
The year before we had 517,000 immigrants with the 2011 Census showing there were 7.5 million people living here who were born elsewhere.
All the new build is taking place without the required infrastructure because of population increases mainly due to immigrants and their now growing families.
When you listen to the pro EU talking about British people under free movement settling abroad there are actually 1000,000 Brits in Spain, mainly retired and 300,000 in France, again retired. Neither group are a burden on the host states. The rest of the numbers in the EU are very small.
Therefore I don’t think the Government have much to crow about.
November 29, 2013
Clearly we want the right sort of immigration, people who can pay for themselves and make a net contribution. The EU prevents the government selecting in this sensible way for EU residents and the government has been clamping down rather too hard on the other areas. It is government by top down EU rules of lunacy as usual.
A graduate job earning more than £20,300 is not going to pay the state very much to cover children’s education, housing, roads, defence etc. Nor will it ever pay back any student loans give out.
I see that 50% of student loan are unlikely to be paid back in full.
November 29, 2013
It is higher for EU students, but it is claimed it represents such a. Small proportion of the budget it does not matter even thought he figure goes in to ten of millions of pounds, our hard earned money stolen in tax by the government to give away to our EU competitors.
November 29, 2013
The student loans are also clearly rather anti male. This as men will be statistically rather more likely to work for longer and thus repay the loans. Woman (and probably EU students) are rather more likely to get (in effect) a free grant.
November 29, 2013
All too predictable. It was just a bit of book cooking to weigh our kids down with debt and give the government some elbow room in the budget to raise foreign aid payments. See “Agenda 21”.
November 30, 2013
Student loan debts have just been sold to recovery companies. i hope they have more luck than the ones pursuing my empty unlet house. They seem unaware of where they live and resort to enforcement threats to the house owner, demanding proof of ID.
How they will find EU ex students is difficult to guess. The British can always declare bankrupcy for a couple of years if they find the £20k or more to daunting.
November 29, 2013
There are roughly 130,000 EU students in residence at HESA institutions. At £9,000 per head for fees (it will be less than this on average), that’s £1.27bn per year in fees/loans. Such fees do not pay the whole cost anyway – some £5.4bn was allocated by central governments towards teaching costs in 2011/12.
November 29, 2013
Here we go again. How is it clear that we need the right sort of immigration? Why do we need any?
November 29, 2013
How do you square of this with your fantasy of no minimum wage. Should NMW it only apply to foreign workers?
Maybe services could be restricted on the ability to pay on this basis for all even for graduates born in the UK with exemptions for the middle classes who should not have to tolerate this type of thing?
November 29, 2013
When you see all this for what it is- government claiming credit for fixing problems created by government (95% of what they do) you begin to ask why we need them at all. After all the other 5% of government business is usually directed towards relieving us of our income and savings to pay for this ridiculous charade. Before the welfare state we did not have a permanent underclass that will not work, nor did we have mass immigration to fill the job vacancies. What we did have is a tiny government, the most dynamic economy in the world and the greatest rise in living standards across society that the world had ever seen. Since the welfare state we have seen a fall in education standards and a fall in relative terms in manufacturing, entrepreneurial excellence that has led to the richest country on earth becoming a vassal state of the Belgian Empire. I once read a book that claimed that the collapse in quality of British leadership was due to the mass slaughter of the best and brightest in two world wars and I think that is supported by a brief look at Parliament today.
November 29, 2013
Only 5% of government business directed towards relieving us of our income and savings – surely rather more than this.
I see (abuse left out ed) Mr Clegg is pushing shared paternity leave again, another huge job destroying, government imposed pointless burden on employers.
How will employers even know who the father is, or even if their is a baby/pregnancy at all?
November 29, 2013
I would like to ask Mr Clegg if he thinks that MP’s second home allowances should be means tested.
November 29, 2013
I presume this includes all those fathers who do not live or have anything to do with their children. Or is this a back door way to give gay couples the same rights on paternity leave as heterosexual couples now that Clegg and Cameron changed the Christian religion definition of marriage. This is part of Clegg’s ambition to change the culture of the UK as he dislikes it so much. I really think he ought to clear off to another country which he likes and leave us alone.
November 29, 2013
Maybe employers should be allowed to ask whether anyone has plans to have a child in the future especially woman and should the man claim benefits have to provide a doctors certified proof that the child is his. Asking permission from the employer to have a child and time off may solve this for both parties.
November 29, 2013
Not really “abuse”!
November 29, 2013
Andy please get yourself an “O” British history book for Christmas. There has always been an underclass in the UK, even before HMG got into the free money business. To the great Victorian social reformers, like William Booth, they were known as the “residuum” and were going to have their lives “improved” by re-locating them to garden cities or to the colonies instead. Presumably the inhabitants of Hogarth’s’s “Gin Lane” were capable of holding down a job in your view? Its not unusual for the UK to have had open borders for most of its history. The next time you are in London take a trip along Brick Lane and look for clues of the other ethnic groups who preceded the Bangladeshi’s who now live there.
This though this comment takes the biscuit in that the UK “the greatest rise in living standards across society that the world had ever seen”. Prior to Lloyd George, if you want to take him as creator of the welfare state, Edwardian England has never been so unequally stratified and if 1945, is your starter, I presume all the big cities were completely slum free?
November 29, 2013
We just get rid of health and housing benefits and all will be solved?
November 29, 2013
Before the welfare state we did not have a permanent underclass that will not work
What about the underclass mentioned by Charles Dickens which couldn’t work because there weren’t enough jobs available? There’s never been a time when everyone worked in the UK.
What we did have is a tiny government, the most dynamic economy in the world and the greatest rise in living standards across society that the world had ever seen.
Care to provide evidence to back up any of these claims. Such as proof the economy was “dynamic” or when this “greatest rise in living standards” occurred.
Since the welfare state we have seen a fall in education standards and a fall in relative terms in manufacturing, entrepreneurial excellence that has led to the richest country on earth becoming a vassal state of the Belgian Empire.
Since the welfare state we also lost all our colonies, which provided the UK with much of its wealth. The number of people with degrees greatly increased after the welfare state was introduced, so by your logic the welfare state increased education standards. Manufacturing has been in decline because UK politicians decided that helping the city was more important (so nothing to do with the welfare state.
Your attempts to blame the welfare state for everything despite having no evidence to back up any of your claims just shows that your argument is based on ideology rather than facts.
I once read a book that claimed that the collapse in quality of British leadership was due to the mass slaughter of the best and brightest in two world wars and I think that is supported by a brief look at Parliament today.
Only the best and brightest who were 18-24 between 1914 and 1918 were slaughtered during WW1. By WW2 they realised that sending intellectuals to fight in the war wasn’t a good idea. So it’s unlikely that it had a major effect on everything that happened after this period.
November 30, 2013
Andyvan
Excellent post as always
November 30, 2013
Blaming the ills of this country on the welfare state providing healthcare and preventing starvation and squalor by telling us that is what causes it, is not an excellent post it a right wing fantasy. Gone a bit quiet of late haven’t we libtard. Cat got your tongue?
November 30, 2013
Problem is Baz that the Welfare State has gone beyond it’s original remit to prevent starvation and squalor. It has created an underclass that suffer the effects of de-motivation and lack of activity or purpose, such as obesity, drug dependence, alcoholism, anti social behaviour and general disconnect from the rest of society.
November 30, 2013
The welfare state has gone beyond its remit and is now being used to make up for the massive inequalities in society, The idea that these inequalities are somehow the fault of the population generally, as in being stupid, as Boris claims is for the birds. Have nothing and be happy with it in one of the richest countries in the world? As if. In a post industrial society there are large swaths of the population with little to do as they do not have the skill required and the idea that if we cut their welfare they will all be incentivised by this is false. You need to tell us how desperation creates work. Or at least the type of work you have in mind.
November 29, 2013
The fact the government keeps quoting ‘net migration’ make me suspicious.
If 1 million enter and 0.5 million leave, the net migration is ‘only’ 0.5 million. The 0.5 million who left are probably fit (otherwise they would certainly stay), they probably speak English, and they are likely to be imbued with our native culture.
But the million entering may not speak English, they may be unfit, and they need homes and schools, and they are probably not of our culture.
So the ‘net’ quoted by the government is 0.5 million, but the social problem could be nearer 1 million. The immigrants have to absorbed properly into the community and this takes years. So the quoting of ‘net’ by the government conveniently masks the problem we have today – too many coming to this country too quickly and society’s inability to absorb them without major problems to the indigenous population.
December 1, 2013
You can guarantee that the vast majority of those leaving the country will have been Tory voters.
Leftists seem to like Britain as it is.
November 29, 2013
John, lots of statistics that do their job, confuse the public.
Some simple statistics from me.
Over the last twenty years Britain (in reality England) has recieved millions of immigrants.
This has produced unprecedented pressures on services, notably NHS England.
The term ‘net migration’ conceals the truth our demography is being changed at a rate never previously seen in recorded history.
The only answer is an end to immigration. Which of course means leaving the EU.
November 29, 2013
What is clear is that where the Government can control net migration – i.e. immigration from outside the European Union – our policies are working
===========
This bit contains a lie.
What John is saying is that under EU law there is freedom of movement of people, capital, goods and services, and that under EU law we can’t control migration from the EU.
However, there is now case law that says the UK government can control migration from the EU. John and co just choose not to. It’s his responsibility and he can’t pass the buck.
That case is Cyprus. Remember the law again? Freedom of movement of capital. Unless you are Cypriot, and the EU allowed it, or imposed it.
So come on John. Why are you still pushing the line that your hands are tied?
November 29, 2013
And those who can get a graduate job earning more than £20,300 can stay to work after their studies.
===============
20,300 a year means tax and NI of £3,678.24 a year.
You however are spending 11,500 a year per person.
Why should other people be forceable taxed to pay the difference?
November 29, 2013
Unless we get a grip on who can and who cannot come , live and work in this country , we will create a population of layabouts . In Jersey this summer ( a place I had never visited before ) the place was over-run by immigrants ; they were hard working , spoke English and enjoyed living comfortably and happily in the community. The knock-on effect of their endeavours was the ” I don’t need to do that , it is below me to do that ” attitude of the Jersey native . We must get back to the work ethic and striving outlook of the Brits ; we must encourage ” apprenticeship ” and learning on the job ; striving to do well in life made this country a great place to live and be proud of . Of course we may not go the way of the Jerseyites , but, human nature being what it is , is likely to push us into the same situation . Beware ! .
November 29, 2013
What about people who fraudlently obtained citizen based on dishonest asylum claims. My wife is from Colombia and we know Colombian “refugees” who go on holiday to the country they “fled from” as often as they can afford.
One partial solution would be to say – retrospectively – that refugees can’t visit the dangerous country they left – it wouldn’t be a hardship for genuine refugees.
November 30, 2013
Is the UK the nearest safe country to flee to if you live in Colombia?
Are things really that bad in South America?
Gosh!
December 1, 2013
They go back there as British tourists not as citizens living in the areas they had problems with. Can you not see this with you mindless idea of stopping them going back to their countries of Birth? Sound like you are envious of the number of holidays they have to me. Their problems exist at a local level in most cases. Why do you think so many rich Russians are here? they know that one day they could be in their penthouse and the next day in prison. Russian history has proved this.
November 29, 2013
I notice you never off any personal opinion on immigration, these days. Instead, you just reprint Govt spin. Have you given up? Have you realised that there is very little the Govt can and will do to stem the flow? I suppose its easy to give up the fight when you have a very comfortable existence and an extremely generous pension to look forward to. I have not paid into a pension for 10yrs. I have young children, so I will fight for their future. This is why I left your party in 2010 and joined UKIP. I’m in a very safe Conservative seat. However, we now have a very proactive team (including young activists recently moved from your Party) and by 2015, we expect the seat to be a marginal. This is what you can do by getting off your backside and working had. Moaning online is pointless, the political elite do not care and won’t change course, unless you force them.
Reply I have set out my views before now. I want the UK to control her own borders, either by renegotiation of our EU relationship or by the UK people voting to leave.
November 30, 2013
Keep repeating your views and challenging the views of the rest of the political class. The majority of your electorate are pro much stricter controls on immigration than any of the political class. Dont keep quiet. Thats what you get paid for 🙂 and its the right thing to do.
December 1, 2013
Winston
I’ve given up hope for our country. It’s over. The best the Tories can come up with is Boris’s “We are going to be a vibrant and industrious mongrel nation.”
I fear it is far more likely that we are going to become a corrupt third world state.
The point of me moaning here is not to change things but to be sure that the Tories know why we’re going to abandon them at the next general election.
The Tory party are NOT our friends.
The Tory party is inimical to democracy.
We should have ditched them years ago.
November 29, 2013
When we have no credible way of accounting for who enters and leaves the country the figures are just a guestimate.
The survey at airports and ports covers a tiny fraction of people and has an error factor of about 50%.
In any other business this would be laughed out of court.
I bet immigration is running at at least twice the official figures and that’s why the government won’t introduce proper border checks.
November 29, 2013
“… whilst attracting the brightest and best:
• At the same time, we have protected genuine students. University sponsored applications are up 7 per cent compared to last year – with an increase in the number of study visas issued to Chinese citizens (up 8 per cent) and Malaysians (up 27 per cent).
• There is no limit on the number of students who can come to the UK. All those who can speak English, have sufficient funds and qualifications, and can get a place on a genuine course can come to study in this country. And those who can get a graduate job earning more than £20,300 can stay to work after their studies.”
“• training British people to fill those jobs by providing record numbers of apprenticeships, demanding rigour in schools, and building a welfare system that encourages work;”
In a nutshell, whereas the policy of New Labour was to promote mass immigration to replace their English working class voters, the policy of the Coalition is to promote largescale selective immigration to replace English middle class voters, firstly in tertiary education on the courses which offer real skills rather than Cultural Marxist claptrap and subsequently in the workforce, whilst training up the dumb English to do the jobs that are below their replacements.
Conclusion: the Coalition as with New Labour is heavily infiltrated by those who do not much like the English and would seek to marginalise them in their own country.
Boris said:
“It is surely relevant to a conversation about equality that as many as 16 per cent of our species have an IQ below 85, while about 2 per cent have an IQ above 130”
Boris is right not to deny the Bell curve and presumably his own exalted place on it; however, I think he’s referring to a typical Northern European population rather than the world at large. The advantage of a Northern European intelligence distribution is that there are the correct range of abilties, subject to a proper education for all (not just those who can afford the fees), to fill all the jobs; we do not need to import anybody at all; it is devisive and unnecessary.
November 29, 2013
We also need action to stop jobs being exported. This means we need government action to reduce the advantage to companies like EON of moving jobs to places like India.
1) This means reducing the cost of employment in the UK. We thus need for example a stronger move to reduce employers’ NI contributions. This should be done in preference to any reductions in corporation tax.
2) Similarly we need to encourage foreign graduates, who have paid for their courses, to remain in this country rather than take their skills and multiple languages abroad.
November 29, 2013
Labour did not accidentally fail to control immigration. They did it deliberately, in order to increase the Labour vote. It is only now, after discovering that this policy turned off the indigenous population, that they are revising their policy.
We won’t control EU immigration until we end the free movement of labour within the EU. This would be a simple, practical statement that the EU is not a country. Power of decision would revert to the Home Secretary.
We won’t control non EU immigration until we end the practice of importing brides and bridegrooms. In certain ethnic groups, this would also have the effect of reducing the number of ‘honour killings’.
December 1, 2013
Migration for family reasons is a relatively small component of the total. Look at Figure 3.12 here:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_335330.pdf
It’s the flows of students that we need to monitor – that has been used as an immigration back door. Whilst some of the worst abuses have now finally been stamped on, the fact remains that over half the net immigration was accounted for by “students” in the most recent figures, which show that over two thirds of students stay in the UK after their courses are over.
December 2, 2013
You are right. Bone fide students who study for a few years and then return home are not a problem (provided that they pay top dollar and that there are enough places for UK students). So it is all about enforcement, and enforcement is easier if executive decisions are made by the Home Secretary without interference from the courts (and certainly not by secretive courts).
November 29, 2013
Yes, Government congratulating itself on fixing, if indeed it could be said to be fixed, the problem it first created.
But not far away, the Swiss people are soon to hold a referendum on reducing immigration into their country. How wonderful it would be if we could exercise the same level of democratic control over those who purport to act in our best interests.
November 29, 2013
These may be the figures yet day by day I register new migrant patients . They are always unemployed, they do not have a place at university.
November 29, 2013
Despite the Lib-Dims I have noted that some true Conservative policies are being pursued and are having a beneficial effect. Immigration, education, local government to name a few. I think on the NHS reforms time is needed to evaluate them but I have a feeling they will not be a spectacular success as they do not tackle the patient lack of choice adequately enough. As for fixing EU immigration I believe that will not happen unless the same rules apply to UK citizens Brussels will block it. As with most of the promises such as renegotiation, repatriation of powers and EU reform that is not going to happen unless article 50 is invoked(which forces the EU to the negotiating table to either offer terms acceptable to the UK to remain a member or leave on mutually acceptable conditions) either and David Cameron should say so.
November 29, 2013
The following standard letter could be useful for government MPs:
“Dear Constituents
I know that many of you are concerned about the scale of immigration into your country, so I thought you would interested in a summary of recent progress by your government in tackling this issue.
Briefly, the flood of immigrants from outside of the EU has slightly decreased, while the flood of immigrants from the rest of the EU has somewhat increased, but also because fewer of you have given up on this country and emigrated there has been a negative reduction in the total net immigration which is targeted by your government.
As for future prospects, your government has taken firm action to restore the flow of immigrants from outside of the EU by inviting the entire youth of India to come here to study and then stay on permanently provided they can land jobs paying not too far below average wages, and to ensure that the flow of immigrants from the rest of the EU is at least maintained and preferably increased your government has resisted ill-informed populist calls to take effective action to hinder the entry of those holding Bulgarian and Romanian passports, including of course the Moldovans who have been given Romanian passports to enable them to make their contribution to the essential free movement of persons within the EU and especially into this country.
However in order to assist your government in meeting its stated target for net immigration, I would like to take this opportunity to highlight that there are other countries in the world which would welcome the brightest and best among you and I would encourage those who can to explore those opportunities; I attach details of the offices to be contacted for emigration to a number of those countries where you might well make a better life than is now possible here.
Just a reminder that it is my strong wish to be able to continue serving you during the next Parliament, and so I will be standing at the general election in May 2015 when I hope that I will once again be able to rely on the support of those who have not emigrated.
Yours sincerely
(Add name of MP here)”
November 29, 2013
“emigration has fallen”? – -I wonder why? – -could it be down to a policy of taxing English people to death – therefore leaving them in a financial position of being unable to afford to emigrate – after all -why would THIS government want people to move to and pay taxes in another country – when it needs the taxes here to pay for the thousands of (new migrants ed) about to hit our shores? – -the working class is now just classed as something – not people -to be worked, taxed, and then disregarded – -the main countries that people want to go to – Australia, Canada etc – all run better control than HERE – where as we all know – any foreign (criminal ed) – and use the now infamous HRA – to ensure that they can stay here for ever – free life, money, house and healthcare till they drop – -and know they will never have to get a job ( who would employ them ) – – or contribute in anyway – and the family of the people who have had these crimes committed against them will be taxed – so the (criminals ed) can walk in freedom – -I now tell any youngsters I talk to, to get out of this country as fast as possible – -because a government caused hell is coming our way. – I used to love this country – now I am ashamed to be British – and am genuinely glad that I am nearer death than birth – because I do not want to see what I know is coming
when mr bliar said he was going to sign the HRA I was shouted down for my comments that it was the worst thing he was ever going to do to this country – -now everyone knows what a traitor he is (etc ed). hope YOU have a merry xmas mr bliar.
Reply There are controls on criminals, and most migrants are not criminals, most are seeking jobs.
November 29, 2013
I suspect universities want more students from outside the EU because they can charge them much more than UK and EU students.
The Government isn’t providing apprenticeships or a welfare system that encourages work (mainly because for millions of people there isn’t any suitable work available).
Unsure how legal the ban on claiming work benefits will be as under EU law EU citizens have to be treated the same as the native population. So unless these rules apply equally to UK citizens the UK will probably end up being sued by the EU.
November 30, 2013
Why don’t you do some checking before making incorrect statements Uni?
Maybe some peer reviewing would benefit your posts.
For example
A quick look on some University websites show prices for courses and none have higher prices for non EU and UK students as you claim.
November 30, 2013
Look a bit harder they can and do charge a lot more for none EC students.
We do however give student loans to some EU nationals here, some of which are unlikely to be paid back.
And the biggest disgrace is that English students studying in Scotland have to pay more than students from Scotland and anywhere else in the EU. England is apparently not part of Europe when it comes to that.
November 30, 2013
UK universities have a very good income stream from foreign students. Even a local English course that would be free to EU citizens will be charged full price to those who are not. I know this as a fact as I once paid seventy quid for one for a non EU citizen.
November 30, 2013
Uni was talking about Universities
I looked a six near me and none asked different prices for students on the basis of their country of origin.
November 30, 2013
Bazman – what about UK students told they can’t go to university because there aren’t enough places ???
November 30, 2013
… and what about the unpaid loans crisis ???
December 1, 2013
They could get a job and as a large number of jobs do not pay enough to pay back a student loan. Seems a good idea not to waste their time and the taxpayers money studying on the off chance they will be allowed a high paying job by people more intelligent then themselves as Boris points out.
December 1, 2013
Sadly its done on residency rather than citizenship, or whether you are permitted indefinite leave to remain. So if you have been in UK as the child of someone from outside of the EU here with a work visa for several years then you will get the cheaper EU college fees. Added to the free schooling you will have had here its quite a big bonus for families from countries where they would have to pay full price for education back home.
December 1, 2013
Thats right residency and whether indefinite right to remain has been granted. Takes five years and should the persons passport be needed the process starts again. No contact with the authorities whatsoever, they will not talk or discuss. When the right to remain is granted they phone out of the blue like in some sort of John le Carré novel to speak t0o the person and advise.
None EU migrants living it up on the state is a product of tabloid fantasy. Very difficult them in many areas of life without help from someone. No job, no benefits, not allowed to work. Tell me it isn’t like this if you want to be wrong make sure you quote Daily Mail foreigners winning the lottery from the state.
December 1, 2013
Bazman,
I know lots of people here from outside the EC, including India, US, Singapore, etc including many who have been here for a long time on work visas, some on student visas, some married to Brits, many granted indefinite leave to remain and many not. And I am particularly close to one university and know exactly what its forms say, and how it determines whether to charge UK/EC or non EC fees.
I don’t need the newspapers to inform my opinion of whats going on I have more than enough first hand experience.
Folk here perpetually on work visas, where the whole family are non EC nationals, and none of them are entitled to indefinite leave to remain here, and where their home country does not provide a free state education for their children find the free school places they are given here for their children a big perk. This can be a big part of the sums which make it viable to work here for little pay, as they are saving big money on school fees in peak years, and some of them time their years in the UK to coincide with what would be the most expensive years in school back home.
I know for a fact that at least one university simply asks whether the prospective student has been resident in the UK or EU the last few years and allocates the default fee band on that basis. Students applying from within the UK are not asked to prove their nationality or to prove their citizenship or rights to be here, they are simply allocated the UK/EU fee band on that basis. So a non EC national, without indefinite leave to remain here, who has been here for a few years because their parents have work visas… can and do get the much lower UK/EU fees from their university than they would be getting if they applied from their home country. People naturally take advantage of this and play the system. So you are factually wrong on “and whether indefinite right to remain has been granted”. Indeed I did a postgrad year myself recently and at no stage was I asked to prove I was British or entitled to be here as I applied from a UK address.
As for “Very difficult them in many areas of life without help from someone” that’s a different aspect, many are working in the black economy, working in restaurants and so on, and many are able to live here for years without interacting much with the state.
December 3, 2013
They have a valid visa and that is why they are allowed to work here and claim benefits from the state such as education. That is my point why they are allowed is a wider question. If they are here illegally then this opens up a lot of other questions the main one being employers employing them illegally and undercutting British workers as well as avoiding healthy and safety and the correct taxes. Anyone against prosecuting these employers who are the cause of this immigration?
November 30, 2013
when the points system was introduced in 2009, anybody who couldn’t get a work visa became a student – student numbers rose from 50 – 150,000. It was absolutely no surprise to read that less than 30% of students leave after their “studies”. Most enter the job market and are a factor in keeping the UK’s young on the dole. what a joke.
November 30, 2013
Immigration certainly doesn’t look under control to us and Mr Cameron’s efforts seem feeble as regards the 2014 issue.
It seems unlikely that it will look under control after January (unless the intention is to gag the tabloid press.) and this will not be forgiven.
This has to be a flagship policy and appear prominently in election broadcasts.
And why can’t we limit foreign students ? Surely our universities are for our people and what are our own young to think when they have been rejected because there are not enough places ?
December 1, 2013
I actually dont have a problem with foreign students, where Brits are not crowded out of places. I do have a problem with foreign students being allowed to work while here, especially in parts of the country where there are many Brits out of work able to do the typical student jobs. And I do have a problem with a system which allows students to fail on purpose to get their visa extended another year cheaply in order to be able to work here, and I know for a fact this does go on.
December 2, 2013
Sounmds fine and dandy.
But it is all under the straight jacket of hate speech. Only if people can speak their mind will satisfaction return and white flight diminish.
In truth it is probably far too late. And the UK will just be a pliant subject of the EU. A sort of people parking lot.