You’re not quite alone

Last night at Eurovision I read we were not quite alone – we managed 24th out of 26th with a small points tally.
I noted, however, there were no points from France, Germany, Spain and Italy for the UK. The EU don’t seem to appreciate us, as usual.
Thank heavens Australia now qualifies as a European Song Contest competitor, as they seemed to like our offering to put some points for the UK on the board.

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  1. Lifelogic
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    Indeed and a victory for Ukraine. We should compete in the whole World and take the best immigration and trade we can get from around the whole World. Free ourselves from the EU straight jacket and free them to sort out the mess that EU regulations and the EURO have made of so many EU countries.

    • acorn
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:34 am | Permalink

      What sort of goodies do you think will be handed out by the USA, to the countries that voted for Ukraine? Or, to be more precise, the countries that voted against Russia.

      • Hope
        Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:04 am | Permalink

        Holland vote against Ukraine joining the Schengen area and its politicians are forbidden by the EU to even discuss it until after our own referendum! The EU defying the taxpayers of Holland their democratic right to say who should or should not enter their country. Terrorists are exploiting the open borders of the EU as we saw in the dreadful Paris attacks and learn that one of them was free to enter and leave the UK as he wished. May needs to to resign o robe forced to resign. He record is dreadful and if she was knowingly going along with a govt plan to mass immigration when telling us something different she should be properly held to account.

        With over 600,000 EU immigrants each year entering our country, covered up by Cameron’s govt., it will be difficult to understand why the fixed Song contest is relevant at this time.

        JR, reading commentary on the FCO paper 30/1048 is it true that giving away our sovereignty was an act of treason? Second, those in the Heath Government knew they were giving away sovereignty while they were lying to the public, hence all treasonable. Third, is this why in 1998 Blaire got rid of the Treasson Act to provide effective immunity to politicians who continued to incrementally give away our sovereignty? Therefore where do people who served in the Heath government stand? Like Douglas Herd? I welcome your views to provide clarity over this issue.

        • Hope
          Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

          JR, some good questions from an article by Roger Bootle in the DT worth remembering and passing on.

          First, if the benefits of the single market are so enormous, then why is it that over recent years countries all around the world have increased their exports into the single market at a faster rate than most single market members?

          Second, if the single market is of such overwhelming importance, why are so many of its members in a terrible state? Why is the Greek economy not carried forward on a wave of prosperity unleashed by the absence of form-filling and checking at borders?

          Third, if trade deals are so important, why does the UK do such a huge amount of trade with countries that it doesn’t currently have a trade deal with – including America?

      • zorro
        Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:15 am | Permalink

        Even more ridiculously political than normal! I couldn’t believe that the wailing noise actually won but then it was the Ukraine and it was an anti-Russian song so not totally unexpected. I particularly liked the new voting system which seemed rather strange and to turn things on the head. It reminded me a bit of the Not the 9 o’clock news sketch on the trade union block vote :-)….. It is an increasingly kitsch event


        • zorro
          Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:18 am | Permalink

          Russia gave the UK entry 6 points, so the Monday news will doubtless see Cameron warning that Putin is trying to lure the Brits into Brexit, and only dangerous extremists would surely vote out if that was the case!


          • bluedog
            Posted May 16, 2016 at 10:50 am | Permalink

            One half expects Cameron to claim that Brexit will see GB kicked out of the Eurovision song contest as well.

  2. DaveM
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    We did better than Germany though!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:02 am | Permalink

      That alright then, what a relief!

      • Hope
        Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:10 am | Permalink

        But Ukraine is mired in allegations of corruption. We read of the recent resignation because of it. Where does Cameron stand on getting rid of fantastic world corruption and allowing any of our taxes going to the Ukraine? Albania seems to be a basket case and it costs us £18 million to jail their citizens in our prisons and they have not joined the EU yet! This is financial cost to the taxpayer what about the horror to the victims of crime in this country? E same applies to other Eastern European citizens languishing in our jails at out cost. How did they get in the safer secure Britain Cameron talks about? Who is monitoring and supervising the serious EU offenders once in our country to prevent them committing further crime? Nobody, May is still on her mission to wreck the policing.

    • H. Bell
      Posted May 19, 2016 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

      In two wars too

  3. Denis Cooper
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    It’s not worth watching without Wogan!

    • Margaret
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

      That is it Dennis; Wogan was one of the first to comment on the unpopularity of GB in the Eurovision , noticing that Baltic countries vote for each other and the Euro countries vote for each other. We have been snubbed. I only caught catches of it , but the winner truly had a more controversial theme which was emotional. The line Let “Humanity rise” choked me.
      This is the first Eurovision I have switched on for years and most of the songs seemed to be the same. Perhaps that is age speaking.

  4. bigneil
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Now changing name from Australia to EUstralia. Soon they will have to pay millions a day, obey Brussels, and let in millions of unwanted people to destroy their culture and services. “Thin end of the wedge” springs to mind. The Aussies should be afraid – -VERY afraid.

  5. stred
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    It was possible to predict most of the votes of the juries by political ties.Only Mata voted for us and Cyprus voted for Russia to give the finger to the Troika.

    The Swedes have shown that they are able to do better technical tv with humour and talented performers.The Russian and British had slightly original songs. Most of the rest seemed like Celine Dion and the rest belting out pain screams, groans and trills to thumping drums.

  6. stred
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    It was possible to predict most of the votes of the juries by political ties.Only Malta voted for us and Cyprus voted for Russia to give the finger to the Troika.

    The Swedes have shown that they are able to do better technical tv with humour and talented performers.The Russian and British had slightly original songs. Most of the rest seemed like Celine Dion and the rest belting out pain, screams, groans and trills to thumping drums.

  7. alan jutson
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Gave up viewing this contest years ago, due to the voting structure and its farcical results.

    Along with the USA we have our artists recordings played throughout the World millions of times a year.

    Go on holiday in any Country in the World and you will hear our artists over the airwaves time and time again.
    Yet when it comes to competition we do not feature at all, because most of the Countries vote for their so called mates or political allies.

    We now have a situation where no self respected UK artist would even bother to compete in this farce.

    Once again it shows us Europe is a fix up, but this time everyone knows we do better on the World stage as the proof is available for all to see in sales, playing hours, and financial receipts

    How many Ukrainian performers have sold millions for decades.

  8. RJO
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    What used to be a simple and entertaining jolly has descended into being a politcal nasty. As Australia are eager to take part, perhaps they’d like to take our place in the EU too?

    • Yosarion
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:21 am | Permalink

      Turning into no more than a world wide Pride event.

    • John Bracewell
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      Australia values its independence and democracy too much to join the EU, like USA, Australia talks about it’s alright for the UK to be in the EU but neither country would even contemplate joining such an organisation themselves.

  9. Lifelogic
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    The polls seem to suggest leave is rightly winning on the migration and security issue. Who on earth could possibly think we would be more secure by letting anyone in for the EU. Not even Cameron and May can really think that can they?

    But on the economy issue leave is losing. Why on earth would we not get a huge economic benefit from leaving? A bonfire of red tape, lower import tariffs, half priced energy, no EU fees to pay, a nimble government acting in the UK’s interest for a change and hopefully a sensible chancellor to replace they current economic illiterate, with his huge PSBR, endless tax rises and tax complexity rises to well above the laffer point and running a record trade deficit to boot. Not to mention the absurd wage controls, bonkers sugar tax, his pension mugging, landlord and tenant mugging, IHT ratting, insurance tax at 10%, stamp duty muggings ….. and still a massive PSBR and dreadful public services like the NHS, roads and many schools.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:38 am | Permalink

      A huge economic boost from accepting only the higher paid, better qualified and non criminal, self supporting migrants for around all the world. Not the open doors to anyone from the EU policy regardless of the cost and liabilities many bring.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      Yet another boost will come from us leaving. Post Brexit the EU will be under far more pressure to reform. It will thus help the EU countries too. Hopefully others will also leave, seeing how beneficial leaving is.

    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    The BBC still will not afford screening Eurovision unadulterated. So the excellent English-speaking Compères are talked over with inane comments which only Wogan had the presence to make funny.

    One has suspicions as to the political voting. Generally, persons do not make profound political or social decisions when choosing and playing music. We can all name pop and rock stars who have fallen foul of most heinous crimes . Their music continues being bought and heard.

    In truth the Scandinavian and Baltic countries vote for themselves because they are accustomed to hearing, playing, appreciating one another’s music. No great political conspiracy. Germany listens to many Italian pop groups, the names of which are never mentioned here in the UK.

    Not many of Europe’s eternal texters will have heard about political problems with Ukraine. etc ed

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted May 16, 2016 at 5:52 am | Permalink

      Just anecdotal evidence, but I think you’ll find LOTS of texters in former Soviet countries (Hungary, Poland, Baltics etc.) have heard about problems in Ukraine, they have different news priorities to UK.

  11. agricola
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    The Eurovision Song Contest would seem to me to be a satirical version of the EU set to music. I have no quibble with the contest or Australia, but can someone explain how such a bizarre coupling can occur. Is it that so many brave Austalians have died trying to save Europe from itself that they feel a need to try again.

  12. Know-Dice
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Coming third from last with an Ok song, clearly shows what Europe thinks of us.

    Eurovision for at least the last 20 years has not been about the best song it’s either been “block voting” or in this instance a political statement. Should we be involved as a major financier to this farce, I would say no 🙁

    Back on topic…

    Boris and the “H” word, I would say unwise, but is getting plenty of air-time. I have just printed out several copies of the “Five Presidents” reports to give away to any Remainders that call, just to make sure that they know what Remain would really mean for us…

  13. Tad Davison
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    I never watched it, and think it’s fixed in advance.

    Victoria Nuland did have a point.


    • Hope
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:17 am | Permalink

      Agree. I would not waste my time on the shite, the clue is in the title to convince plebs of their new country.

  14. JJE
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    You missed the “Douze points” from Malta. Her Majesty’s recent visit may have helped there.

  15. Antisthenes
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    If leavers promised that by leaving the EU the UK would never again have to compete in Eurovision song contest I am sure we would win by a landslide. Of course it would be a great big massive lie but then lying has been turned into an art form by David Cameron and the rest of the stayers so we should not let it get in our way.

    • Beecee
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:00 am | Permalink

      No -With Tony Blair it was an art form and he was very good at ‘lying’ until, latterly, it became obvious, but Cameron’s body language shouts ‘porkies’ whenever he gets on his Remain soapbox.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 16, 2016 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        Cameron’s credibility rating is way down. He’s such a turncoat, only the most gullible or blindly loyal still believe in him. Andrew Neil really showed him up yesterday for what he is, coming out recently with a completely different message to the one he delivered only a matter of months ago.

        etc ed

        • Tad Davison
          Posted May 16, 2016 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

          Interesting. I wondered if my reference to a certain international banking concern would ever see the light of day. One, I might add, that has a vested interest in getting the UK to remain within the UK. Seems like some things are perpetually off limits.

          Reply I do not put in attacks on well funded named corporations as I have no wish for you to be sued in case the comments cannot be proved.

          • Tad Davison
            Posted May 16, 2016 at 1:30 pm | Permalink


          • Tad Davison
            Posted May 16, 2016 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

            Reply to reply:

            Thank you for your concern, but I was careful. A suggestion is quite different to an assertion.


  16. Mark B
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    The Eurovision Song Contest – A self parody of Europe.

    I do not watch it by the way, not since ABBA.

    • Graham
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      Same here

      A musical version of ‘Dumber and Dumber’

  17. dennisambler
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Whilst Boris is grabbing the headlines with foolish and damaging rhetoric, we have this going on behind the scenes, totally due to our own politicians, not the EU:—the-most-insane-act-passed-by-parliame/

  18. Bert Young
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    I went to bed !

  19. bratwurst
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Cameron claims “the only way we will keep winning the Eurovision song contest is by remaining in the EU and reforming the voting system so we have a special deal. Brexit means we will never win again.”

  20. Denis Cooper
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    On the contrary he has definitely NOT said what some do say, which is that the EEC/EC/EU/USE project has developed out of Nazi plans:

    This is how the Sunday Telegraph has reported his words:

    ““The whole thing began with the Roman Empire,” he says. “I wrote a book on this subject, and I think it’s probably right. The truth is that the history of the last couple of thousand years has been broadly repeated attempts by various people or institutions – in a Freudian way – to rediscover the lost childhood of Europe, this golden age of peace and prosperity under the Romans, by trying to unify it. Napoleon, Hitler, various people tried this out, and it ends tragically,” he says.

    “The EU is an attempt to do this by different methods. But fundamentally what it is lacking is the eternal problem, which is that there is no underlying loyalty to the idea of Europe. There is no single authority that anybody respects or understands. That is causing this massive democratic void.””

    There’s actually a lot of overlap there with what the EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said back in July 2007:

    “Sometimes I like to compare the European Union as a creation to the organisation of empires … the empires … because we have dimension of empires. But there is a great difference … the empires were usually made through force, with a centre that was imposing a diktat, a will on the others … and now we have what some authors call the first non-imperial empire … “

  21. libertarian
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    I was tweeted last night by Richard Fairbrass ( Right Said Fred) He said Eurovision Song contest is just politics dressed up as entertainment.

    Richard is spot on on

    Interesting that to save another European project they need Australia too

  22. Hope
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    No he did not. He made it clear that the aims were the same by a different method. Do not allow Bremainiacs or the bias pro EU media to twist what he said and then promulgat their rubbish. He is quite correct in what he says. It should also be pointed out how Germ any is still trying to dominate the EU and hence European countries, they be fit from the Euro other countries like Greece, Italy, Spain Portugal do not. They are quickly becoming puppets of Germany who act as the pay masters and issue instructions the Greece should be punished for considering leaving the EU! The overthrow of the govnments of Greece and Italy is distasteful as well. Cameron does not beleive in democratic self- government. He wants to implement what he is told by the EU so he does not have to make decisions.

  23. zorro
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Well, could he be thinking about this….. There was Von Ribbentrop’s draft European Federation paper in 1943 with the old Atlantic to the Urals phraseology…. Of course Walther Funk had similar ideas on European unity……–EU.html

    Or maybe he’s just referring to his 2002 DT article….


  24. Lifelogic
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Not what he said at all. What he actually said was perfectly sensible and true.

    Does the UK really think it will be governed better by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels with little or no interest in the UK and whom the voters can never remove?

  25. lojolondon
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    John, I have refused to watch the Eurovision for several years now – it is no more than an opportunity for politically correct propaganda and for the EU nations to demonstrate first hand how much they dislike and despise the UK. I am happy to buy their cars and spend my tourist cash there, but there is no way I want to allow them to rule our country any more.

  26. D Whitley
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Who cares?

  27. A different Simon
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    A vote to REMAIN is a vote for Mr Mandelson’s post-democratic era .

    The LEAVE campaign must make that clear .

  28. Mark
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    I think Sandie Shaw had it right about the EU:

    I may win on the roundabout
    Then I’ll lose on the swings
    In or out, there is never a doubt
    Just who’s pulling the strings
    I’m all tied up in you
    But where’s it leading me to?

    I wonder if one day that, you’ll say that, you care
    If you say you love me madly, I’ll gladly, be there
    Like a puppet on a string

  29. The PrangWizard
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    It is stating the obvious and we all know that the whole thing is crooked and a political fix, but I can’t help but say it anyway. The EU is a modern day version of the Soviet Union and this joke of a ‘contest’ is the entertainment face of the pretence of democratic states within it. But why on earth is Australia in it? It reminds me strongly of all those happy singing and dancing peasants we would see on Soviet propaganda films. They may not have known how much the state controlled their lives and thoughts.

    I didn’t watch, and haven’t for years.

  30. Denis Cooper
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    I was interested to read this:

    “Since 2000, France, Germany, Spain and United Kingdom have automatically qualified for the final, regardless of their positions on the scoreboard in previous contests, as they are the four biggest financial contributors to the EBU.”

    Maybe money can’t buy you love, but apparently it can buy you a place in the Eurovision final which you may not have otherwise achieved. Is this one reason why our entries do so badly, because they should not have been in the final anyway? Would the quality of our entries be raised if we faced free competition for a place in the final?

    • acorn
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

      The original five founders of the contest, automatically get into the final regardless. It’s a bit like the UN Security Council in relation to the UN General Assembly.

  31. Mark
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    I read that Angela Merkel considers democracy in the form of the EU referendum is “completely unnecessary”. Does she think that an EU dictatorship is all that is needed?

  32. John Bracewell
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    This comment is not about the Eurovision contest but I thought IDS gave a good interview on Sunday Politics, he did not let Andrew Neil bog him down with which international organisations back the Leave campaign. He made the common sense points that these organisations come out of the woodwork at approximately the same time and are either fronted by Osborne or he backs them afterwards, giving the suspicion that the Treasury are putting these organisations up to it and also that all these forecasts are pure speculation and the organisations involved have a track record of being wrong. His call for an investigation into Carney’s report last week on the grounds of bias when he should be impartial was a well made argument, Carney did not balance his comments with there could be a financial disaster if the UK remains in the EU due to the ongoing Euro crises, and, he is too close to Goldman Sachs who are bankrolling the Remain campaign.

    • stred
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

      Marr, as usual, missed the opportunity to ask |Carney. Did the BoE communicate with no 10 or 11 when deciding when to make the announcement about Brexit problems? Why was it on the day we discovered the immigration statistics were probably wrong by 230%?

      • turbo terrier
        Posted May 15, 2016 at 9:30 pm | Permalink


        Marr, as usual, missed the opportunity to ask |Carney.

        I spent the best part of today in the company of an large American drinks company senior manager and his comment to me made a lot of sense:-

        How can CMD, Gideon and Carney support staying in a organisation that is perceived to be more than a little suspect in that it has never been audited and had the audit signed off? No wonder there is so much concern over the true figures that are being banded about. Audited accounts would be very easy to follow to those gifted in accountancy.

        What gets measured gets done. (Old work ethic)

        I think he has a very good point and do wonder why the leave side do not highlight this more? If a Yank can feel this way, surely we must have some like minded people on our side?

        Where does all our contributions go? If the audits are not signed off then are they not illegal?

        Would anyone want a bank manager with this way of operating?

  33. acorn
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    Admittedly, I have been on the booze for most of this afternoon, for diplomatic reasons you understand. But; I am starting to fancy Boris as Prime Minister and Nigel (Farage) for First Secretary of State. Please advise.

    • petermartin2001
      Posted May 18, 2016 at 12:38 am | Permalink

      I’d advise you should sign the pledge! 🙂

  34. a-tracy
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Even friends can’t support a bad song and year after year we put in mediocrity. We should work to our strengths but would artists like Adele, Sam Smith or other number 1 artists from any genre perform? If Europe won’t vote for UK super talents then you know it’s a fix and then we should opt out.

    The first hearing of a song should only be allowed out on the night of the competition.

  35. Juliet 46
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    But – almost all of the songs were sung in ENGLISH! We rule!

  36. Denis Cooper
    Posted May 15, 2016 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    What an utterly despicable government we have:

    “Three million EU citizens in the UK could be deported if Britons vote for a ‘Brexit’, Home Office suggests”

    And then, of course, as retaliation:

    “In March, Philip Hammond, the pro-EU foreign secretary, indicated that hundreds of thousands of expatriate Britons in Spain and other European Union countries could be thrown into doubt if the UK votes to leave.”

    Many of whom have votes in the referendum.

    • zorro
      Posted May 15, 2016 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

      Utterly shameless of course, and complete nonsense….. It might really wake people up to the absurdity of the argument though in its hyperbole. If they look at the number of enforced removals undertaken in the last year, they will know that if is completely risible and impossible!…. Notwithstanding that nobody has even suggested that thermoelectric be enforced removals of European nationals who are lawfully settled here!

      To those who utter these weasel words, exalt yourselves while you still can….


    • Yosarion
      Posted May 16, 2016 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

      I ran this by an old mate who has a house in France only a couple of weeks ago, I was expecting the answer above, but got completely in favor of leave.

  37. James Winfield
    Posted May 16, 2016 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps if we stopped submitted turgid pop junk and entered some form of actual music, we would gain a higher rating. Though I suspect the pop music rather suits our unique form of ambivalence towards the greatness of the EU.

  38. petermartin2001
    Posted May 18, 2016 at 12:51 am | Permalink

    Just on a point of information:

    The Eurovision Song Contest, popularly called Eurovision, but should not be confused with the Eurovision network which broadcasts it. ie European Broadcasting Union which is not an EU body, and includes many non EU countries like Russia, Israel, Morocco and , of course, Ukraine.

    So, perhaps sadly for some, a vote to leave the EU won’t be a vote to leave the EBU.

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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