There seem to be ten main points to Remain’s pitch
- Some of the member states of the EU are so nasty they might say unpleasant things about us if we leave
- Germany might want to put barriers in the way of selling us cars and France might want to make it more difficult for us to buy their cheese and farm products, to the extent that the WTO would allow
- We should want to show solidarity with the failing Eurozone and send our money to spend in their countries rather than spending it at home on our priorities
- We should be willing to be a main provider of jobs for those fleeing the unemployment and poverty of large areas of the Eurozone. The Euro seems to stand for European Unemployment and Recession Organisation
- Leaving might put up wages for the lower paid(Lord Rose)
- Leaving might make house prices a bit more affordable for young people to buy(Treasury forecast)
- Leaving might mean some U.S. Investment banks made a bit less money
- The IMF, World Bank, UK treasury and the Bank of England think we might grow a bit less out than in. These were the organisations who recommended the European Exhange Rate Mechanism which plunged us into recession, who presided over the banking crash of 2008, and who thought the Euro a good idea despite it bringing mass youth unemployment, recession and slow growth to most of the EU
- EU banking, capital markets, energy, social, foreign policy and political union is a good idea which the UK needs to participate in
- The EU’s policy of eastern expansion and security and association agreements with Ukraine and other countries bordering Russia makes us more secure, as we saw with the troubles in Crimea
May 30, 2016
11. We need to carry on with the 2.54 ( 2015 est ) compared with the 3.86 per 1000 head of population immigration net per year of the USA The USA being 37.92 times larger than the UK.
12. Smack our heads continually against a wall shouting “Who is a pretty boy then”
May 30, 2016
In 2010 Cameron said to Turkish politicians, I will be your strongest advocate for EU membership. He also said he would pave the way from Ankara to Brussels! Recently he said Turkey joining the EU not remotely on the cards, if this is your worry vote remain. This is the sort of deceit the UK public should be aware of and used by shysters like Cameron to deceive them by saying anything to get them to pay up and stay in the EU.
EU remainers too rich to care about immigration, rich enough to exploit cheap foreign workers as domestic staff, too rich to understand the understand the problems of getting a GP appointment, too rich to care about schooling or political class to get whatever school they choose , not the local (school ed) where a large proportion do not speak English. Don’t worry Cameron will create an academy for your types!
(Para re Mrs May left out ed)
Cameron now giving away the authority of our navy to the EU to provide a ferry service for mass immigration and to continue the dinghy death traps. Army vehicles emblazoned with the EU flag on an EU training exercise on Salisbury plain.
May 30, 2016
In truth Remain do not have a case.
From the outset they said Leaving is a “Leap in the Dark” but they then go on like Sillies saying just what they see in the unseen and what they predict in what they say is the unpredictable. Then they haul out a bunch of Ouija Board players from The City, most of whom were in nappies when we were free. Never experienced freedom outside the EU. Never known and felt our greatness.In Plato’s Cave they Remain
May 30, 2016
Superb!
And the ‘European Unemployment and Recession Organisation’ – I don’t remember that from your writings before but I love it!
‘A wild ride to political union’, ‘we’re governed by a puppet parliament’, ‘the European Unemployment and Recession Organisation’… these are phrases which resonate in voters’ minds.
May 30, 2016
All good stuff John but nothing from Voteleave. It is becoming more and more obvious that Cummings and Elliott are batting for Cameron and are a government plant.
Rather than settling the EU question I think this is only the opening shot.
It will soon be clear just what lies and deciet have been used by Cameron there will probably be an election before years end.
Reply The papers have plenty of quotes from Vote Leave this morning
May 30, 2016
This Cummings chap–who is he? Should I have heard of him?? Nigel Farage should have been put in charge, end of story. And Christopher Booker rang true as usual yesterday with his pro (approximately) Norway option which might not be perfect but which could be refined later and which in any case would have us out of the wretched EU. Too much anti Norway comment, not just from Cummings but also, more’s the pity, from our host. A stepping stone to the other side is fine with me. Anything but stay In.
May 30, 2016
Postscript–Now I learn about this idiotic business of (Sorry, I may not have got this quite right) applicants for jobs having to declare whether they went to private schools (for how many years, I wonder). I seem to think every single thing that Cameron says or does is wrong. misleading, perverted, counterproductive or whatever. On the applicant thing I am not even sure what it is that the Government is trying to achieve. My thinking, were I an employer, would be that this chap went to a private school so will have received a better education so I’ll choose him. Somehow I doubt that is the intention.
May 30, 2016
The PM and his adviser Mr Hancock say they want more social mobility. But independent schools, like the grammar schools which the real socialists abolished, are drivers of social mobility.
The PM is not the aristocrat the media would have us believe. His father worked very hard to earn enough money to send him to a good school – some might say the best – and now he is PM. Similarly with Mr Hancock who was sent to a private school by his family and now is a minister. People work hard and make considerable sacrifices to send their children to private schools. This incentive, like the urge to own a house, drives social mobility. What this ill thought out measure will do is attack the whole idea of getting on and improving the family lot by one’s own efforts. What is wrong with trying to be independent and provide for one’s family without being a drain on the taxpayer? Why must it always be vilified?
Then there are all the children at private schools on bursaries and scholarships, as Boris was. Are they all to be held back too?
May 30, 2016
@Leslie Singleton; “Nigel Farage should have been put in charge [of the Vote Leave campaign], end of story.”
Indeed it would have been “end of story”, end of any chance for a Brexit too…
May 31, 2016
Dear Jerry–That’s what makes a horse race. Are you of opinion that Cummings is effective? He is a non-entity saying the wrong things
May 31, 2016
@Leslie Singleton; Yes it is a horse race and Mr Farage had the chance to lead, he blew it, his horse became very lame before the first jump – so to speak…
Now I read that there are tensions again in UKIP, because their leader in the Welsh Assemble looks like getting more media coverage than the party leader. How long before there is an Independent eurosceptic AM sitting in Cardiff bay I wonder?!
What ever the result of the referendum I predict that in 10 years time no one will remember UKIP, in the same way as few now mention Veritas, unless they are looking at how (EU) politicians can insult one another in the name of serious debate.
May 31, 2016
Dear Jerry–You misunderstand the meaning of “That’s what makes a horse race”. It is primarily American and merely means that there are different opinions, else there would be no bets on horses and horse races wouldn’t exist. My opinions are certainly different from yours and in particular I find your comment on UKIP in 10 years’ time excruciatingly inconsequential.
May 30, 2016
There may be quotes but there is no sustained message.
Project Fear should be exposed for what it is.
Lies and deciet from a sitting Prime minister.
Even the postal vote guide points to remain. It’s time he was gone for the good of the country.
May 30, 2016
The thre lets were his priority NHS, he forgot today he wanted it for the world but does not have the money or resources to provide citizens of this country. People in Turkey must be rubbing their hands.
Another good article from Mr Rees-Mogg on the dangers of the EAW and how in reality it was used to arrest caring parents who wanted health care outside the NHS or Mr Syemou who wa detained in a Greek jail without proper evidence that would be required in this country. The fundamental principals of our criminal justice system being eroded by the EU.
Unfortunately he did not mention the idiocy of May’s proposal how Sharia courts are beneficial for some of our citizens. I presume she is now advocating for three criminal justice systems: the remnants of our own system, being gradually eroded, the EU and Sharia law. Of course the EAW makes us all subject to all the terrible EU countries. Hence why a German comic is being sent to Turkey because German law does not allow criticism/mocking of foreign leaders! Yet Cameron claims Turkey joining the EU is not on the cards, even though Merkel wants to appease it in any way it can including billions of our taxes to speed up the process.
When is the Tory party going to rid itself of Cameron?
May 31, 2016
@Hope; Actually that NHS story, about caring parents, that wasn’t so much a story about the EAW [1], no the real story there was of the underfunding of the NHS. Some political activists must think that the plebs have the memories cycle of goldfish. Some of the more emotion pulling stories are not always the best factual examples of cases to try and exploit…
I say this as someone with doubts about the way in which the EAW works, not about the principle of the EAW, after all I’m sure @Hope that you were in full agreement at the speedy use of a EAW, detention, deportation and thus UK prosecution of that failed (the second, 21st July 05) London bombing suspect who fled to Italy.
As for religious law, well indeed there should not be Sharia law, nor should our courts be hearing cases and handing down sentences based in Christian religious teachings either, which after all is were those anti Gay laws came from (that some on this site champion) and were the law on Bellamy and Sunday trading still do.
[1] or are you really saying that Child Protection is not important enough to use a EAW on, remember that the child did not go directly in to treatment, the family first went into hiding (if I recall a, by way of a third country)…
May 31, 2016
Blasphemy, not “Bellamy”!
May 30, 2016
Well the betting odds have moved a little back towards Brexit.
4:1 Brexit – 1:5 Remain, but they still seem fairy sure that Britains always, always, always, will be slaves. At least until the whole think falls to pieces, They will even vote for antidemocratic serfdom it seems.
The power of government and BBC propaganda perhaps?
Personally I still find it hard to believe they will really fall far all the lies from the establishment.
May 30, 2016
Charles Moore today:
“Freedom?
Talking to an old friend a couple of days ago, I asked her which way she would be voting in the EU referendum. âI suppose Iâm for Remain,â she replied, âI canât think of any reason to vote to Leave.â âHow about becoming a free country once again?â I said, icily. âHmm,â she said,
âI donât think I want really to be free.â
I found this answer engagingly frank. Hers is not an uncommon feeling. Freedom can be a tiring business. If you like the sense of being distantly ruled by people over whom you have no power, vote Remain!”
May 30, 2016
Lifelogic
Afraid most people simply do not like change, its much easier to just follow rather than take some responsibility and lead.
Thus if you want change you have to make it attractive, beneficial and give plenty of factual reasons for your cause.
Those who want to keep things as they are just have to induce fear of change, which is a much, much easier argument.
Hence the reason we are where we are.
Leave needs to up its game significantly in the final weeks, but it is also up to us individuals to help spread the facts to help the undecideds make a positive decision as well.
May 31, 2016
@LL; “The power of government and BBC propaganda perhaps?”
Don’t you receive ITV, Ch4 [1] and Sky News in the Channel Isles Mr Lifelogic, you seem to only ever seem to think that the BBC is biased. I read that some eurosceptics within the Tory party intend to have the metaphorical knives out for certain non BBC TV channels after the referendum, even more so if Brexit loose. I doubt they are giving the BBC a clean bill of health, but it does sounds as though the BBC is the broadcaster playing with the straightest bat at the moment!
[1] the Ch4 News website is the most biased load of non journalism going, in fact it hardly qualifies to be a news site
June 2, 2016
If you want to see what and how much the BBC does not cover I suggest you have a look at an online news service such as one I cannot type the name of on here. In case it is not intentional I will type it with gaps until/if and hoping this reply is accepted. B r e_i t b a r _t London. It has very many good articles about Brexit, the EU, the Referendum what is happening in Europe and about the EU and individual EU politicians eg: Jean-Claude
Juncker and you can tag articles required. (Maybe it is me but this reply seems to have set in motion a strange predictive text Juncker was changed to Juniper (!) so hopefully is OK to recommend?)
Reply I do not usually post links as I have no time to read them and check them. This site does not recommend sites I do not myself read, for obvious reasons. If you read soemthign good on another site why not precis the points for readers here.
June 2, 2016
Hello Lifelogic, I have replied to Jerry’s question to you and the reply may be of interest to you too, if you are not aware of this news source?
May 30, 2016
And I’ve just received their email.
May 30, 2016
Yes, as you point out, quite a lot more dangerous than leaving. I equate it with the offer of a sinking lifeboat whose occupants have cannibalistic tendencies, when we might be better swimming off and finding our own plank of wood.
Our presence in the EU is required to give credence to a failing experiment, and money to keep it afloat. A good idea that has been warped and turned into a glory trip for a bunch of failed and unscrupulous politicians who would wish to put man’s democratic development back to the dark ages. Their latest leaks on taxation suggest the emasculation of sovereign states. Taxation with little or no representation. We the UK have been there and know the outcome. Vote Leave.
May 30, 2016
Reasons I have heard for voting Remain include: 1. We’re too small and weak to go it alone; 2. You’re always stronger together; 3. European holidays will be more expensive/difficult/impossible; 4. Study in European universities will cost more; 5. Leave have lost the argument/have no arguments anyway/are all loonies like Boris; 6. Britain won’t be heard unless it’s “seated at the table”; 7. The world is made up of big blocs and that’s the way things are going; 8. Better the devil you know, old horse.
These are what people I speak to believe. It’s beliefs that count – on polling day literally.
Ordinary people are often not comfortable talking about politics and we might say silly things when put on the spot. Big, powerful facts and arguments such as Mr Redwood and many commenters here deal in can wash over us, and we actually vote instinctively, according to our characters: individualistic people for Leave, maybe, and more social types for Remain. Could that be why this question, like so many others, divides the populace so neatly in half?
May 31, 2016
@eeyore; Well yes, and I’ve heard similar, what is more some of those who have attempted to follow the debate go on to suggest that there is an element of truth in 1-4 and 7 above as even many on the Brexit side talk about being members of a EU-lite grouping (EEA/EFTA, a Norway or Swiss relationship).
Like or loath “Remain” but their message has been a constant, they want the UK to be in the room, sat at the top table, banging the desk, on the other hand the public face of Brexit is dis-unified (were has the eurosceptic left gone, from what I read, enough to say that they are still eurosceptic just not involved with Vote Leave any more) with multiple campaigns complete with often competing messages, whilst many wanting a Brexit don’t know if they ultimately want the UK to be in the room but two rows back, halfway through the door or outside!
For goodness sake, with 23 days to go, get your acts together!, get rid of the divisive individuals and personalities, and remember that Brexit is for and needs the political left just as it needs people who make Mrs Thatcher’s ideals look socialist.
Reply The whole point is we are a coalition of pro democracy forces with differing views on how to use the freedoms we want for our country.
May 31, 2016
@JR Reply; Indeed but that doesn’t win referendums! One message with one voice does – does any politico, left, right or centre, truly believe that Mr Corbyn has suddenly found the gospel and meaning of life within the EU after a political lifetime of being a eurosceptic, of course not, but I bet the floating impressionable general public do…
At this point in time, unfortunately, I think Vote Leave will loose, and not because of any bias from the broadcast media industry I might add, if people want to look for where to lay the blame in this ‘info-war’, its the print media and web (both social and non-social).
May 30, 2016
Indeed no sensible arguments at all. The BBC favourite Shirley Williams (wrong on almost every issue for 50+ years) even says the NHS would collapse if all the EU workers left! Has anyone at all every suggested they would have to? So what on earth is she on about?
Interesting to hear Blair rewriting history on Marr yesterday – apparently he was never in favour of joining the EURO. Doubtless he was against the Iraq war too and was told about the weapons of mass destruction, but just did not bother to ask what type of weapons they actually were.
May 30, 2016
Typical bias just now on radio 4 news just now. Something like Cameron will join the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan today. Where whey will be introducing a X point action plan for Britain Stronger In Europe ……. vote leave have events in Cumbria and Durham.
It we d0 vote to remain enslaved in the antidemocratic serfdom of the EU, then it will be the (EU & state funded) biased BBC that did it.
May 31, 2016
@Lifelogic Posted May 30, 2016 at 6:34 am | Permalink;
“[it will have been the] biased BBC that did it.”
Note @LL comment time-stamp above
You know that the BBC had received a full press release and itinerary from Vote Leave either in the previous days or over night? If they had not then they can not broadcast what they do not know about! OK so question the content but to throw accusations of bias about when you have little or no facts is being biased yourself.
May 30, 2016
You’ve forgotten that if we leave the EU that could precipitate a global economic meltdown leading to World War Three, AND NOBODY COULD OR WOULD DO ANYTHING TO AVERT THAT, like agreeing that the present trade should not be disrupted.
May 30, 2016
I’m voting to Leave the Eu money pit and hell hole.
Only I think the remain campaign will win as they get for more air time with scaremonging, yet we see less from the leave campaign, our argument is mostly about migration, which is a big part but I think that is putting people off. We have to take this fight to the remain and (attack ed) their Campaign and not let up until we win our freedom and independence.
May 30, 2016
If Germany put barriers in the way of German companies selling their cars in the UK then we might start running a trade surplus for cars.
Last week I pointed out the misleading nature of this recent article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/27/brexit-would-slam-the-brakes-on-the-uks-hugely-successful-car-in/
âBrexit would slam the brakes on the UKâs hugely successful car industryâ
Anyone reading that article might take away the impression that the EU Single Market is a great, curiously one-sided, help to our car manufacturers and underpins a massively profitable trade with our European neighbours.
And the last part is certainly true, except that the trade is not massively profitable for us but rather for our neighbours, year after year, as shown in Figure 2 here:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/abs/annual-business-survey/car-production/sty-car.html
In 2014 the value of exports to the rest of the EU was about ÂŁ11 billion, while the value of imports from the rest of the EU was about ÂŁ31 billion, deficit ÂŁ20 billion.
In fact we ended up a deficit of only ÂŁ5 billion through the ÂŁ15 billion surplus with the rest of the world outside the EU.
May 30, 2016
There’s only just over 3 weeks to go now and still the lies keep coming from the remain campaign, I’ve said it before the outers should start spinning a few porkys if not just to convince the wavvers to vote out, take the gloves off and ditch the Queensbury rules it’s going to get bloodyer so we should be up for the fight of our lives and fight for our Country
May 30, 2016
Unfortunately people like Johnson & Cummings are already ‘spinning a few porkies’, whether deliberately or through ignorance. This has helped destroy what little credibility Vote Leave had.
May 30, 2016
Nicely put ! And you might add.
That nice Mr Juncker wants us to stay in so he can continue the many reforms he is renowned for with our help.
The other EU members are delighted to offer us a rebate on our contributions and, to show their support for this, ask only that it is renegotiated every 7 years – 0r 6-7 times between referenda. It is therefore completely at risk but trust us we’re not like that nasty Mr Blair who gave half of it away.
They have granted us a “special status” that ensures our contributions continue to make up the shortfall from those EU economies facing recession or stagnation, and that we won’t be drawn into “ever closer union” despite Cameron having signed up to a loss of our veto on this and not being able to “stand in the way of progress.”
May 30, 2016
One reform which Mr Juncker has proposed is that Referendums will be banned within 18 months, I hear.
Is this true? This will be our last ever Referendum !!!!
May 30, 2016
Only half of a ridiculous statement: referenda are the prerogatives of individual countries. Whether their results are taken into account by the EU is another story, cf. past Dutch, Irish, French attempts at changing the course of things.
May 30, 2016
Here it is;
http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/opinion/why-we-should-ban-referenda-on-eu-policies/
Our last chance before Juncker slams the cell door.
May 30, 2016
The remain campaign premiss that we would be out in the cold on trade has just been proved to be a major lie on the part of Cameron/Osborne. So in answer to items one and two I should make you aware of the following, from The Independent Institute of Economic Affairs.
Because the UK is a signatory to all the trade deals that the EU has ever negotiated outside Europe, they are just as valid to the UK whether we are in or out of the EU. This has been confirmed by Martin Howe QC, an expert on the legality of EU trade deals.
We only have to add to it the idea that French cheesemakers and German car manufacturers do not have, nor have ever claimed to have, suicidal tendencies regarding their trade surplus with the UK, and the Cameron/Osborne lie is blown out of the water.
I would suggest that Leave consults with Martin Howe QC., and gathers accurate information to counter the only, barely plausible, argument that remain have used. Make it clear that their lies end here, and make the electorate aware.
May 30, 2016
Now we see postal ballot papers going out with a pen placed over the Remain option.
Clearly your lot have had Zimbabwe Electoral Commissioners here telling us how to run this.
Let’s
a/get Cameron out
b/ have a proper re-run of this ballot in a clean manner later this year.
May 30, 2016
I guess if it becomes really desperate they could also scribe a cross next to Remain and make it clear that if you wished you could re-apply through the usual channels for a new ballot paper. The usual channels would of course be a premium rate telephone number with a recorded message!
May 30, 2016
We often hear LibDems, SNP and Labour telling us they prefer the EU because our democracy has this annoying habit of electing a Tory goverment against their wishes.
May 30, 2016
An interesting comment in yesterday’s FT Leaders &Letters: “Irony is lost on some of the Leave campaigners”.
But obviously, it always is a good line for JR to say that “(his) washing powder washes whiter than (his) competitor’s”.
May 30, 2016
Even more interestingly the FT is owned by a Japanese company. As Japan has not been promoting multiculturalism and mass immigration since its defeat by the USA and its leadership is not now seeking to join the New Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, one has to question whether its editorial policy is motivated purely by the desire to placate the international (sharp operators ed) operating in the City forming a large part of its readership who desire to abolish other people’s nations, including mine in order to further their neo-liberal globalist agenda whilst clinging on themselves to their own ( word left out ed)foreign nationhood.
May 30, 2016
Ah, yes, the result of a free market pushed by neoliberalism. BTW, who was the PM so keen on liberalising the market in the ’80s?
Maybe it is simply people now reaping what they sowed.
May 30, 2016
Point 7. almost made me switch to being pro-Remain but then I recalled the important point is that employee bonuses are maintained undiminished and we have plenty of evidence that those will be paid come what may so yet another Remain point whithers away under scrutiny.
May 30, 2016
or even withers!
May 30, 2016
The Tobin tax is being reviewed mid June.
May 30, 2016
The stay argument always seems to be negative, with nothing positive to say, but with all decisions made by others.
Rather like a conversation between two people who are both fit and capable, but with totally different attitudes.
Eventually such an arrangement breaks down.
Do not get out of bed its nice and warm inside.
BUT I NEED TO GO TO WORK !!!
Be careful when going outside it looks rather cold.
Do not use a bike you may get knocked over.
Do not use public transport, you may catch germs from other people.
Do not use the car you may pollute the atmosphere.
BUT I NEED TO GET TO WORK !!!!
Oh yes, but do not work too hard you may get over stressed.
Make sure you are back in good time, do not be late.
I AM BACK !
Oh Good, what have you got for dinner ?
THOUGHT THAT WAS YOUR JOB, WHILST I WAS OUT WORKING !
Oh well it seems like we have run out of food, did you not go shopping ?
NO, I HAD SOMETHING TO EAT AT LUNCHTIME !
But what about me ?
…………………………………………………
May 30, 2016
YOU SORT YOURSELF OUT, I HAVE HAD ENOUGH, I AM OFF, GOODBYE !
But, But, But.
BYE , BYE.
YOU HAVE BEEN HOLDING US BACK FOR YEARS, NOW YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN WAY, AND SO CAN I.
May 30, 2016
Outstanding! The tragedy is that the humour masks a terrible truth in each paragraph. How is it that so many of the Protected are deaf and blind to the reality of the EU?
May 30, 2016
Did you forget WW3 (David Cameron), we’ll all be ÂŁ4300 pa poorer in 2030 (Treasury/Osborne), pensioners on the full basic state pension would be worse off by ÂŁ142 a year in real terms by 2017-18 and total assets held by over-65s could drop by up to ÂŁ300billion over two years (Treasury/Osborne)?
Meanwhile all the tricks in the book are being used by Cameron and his cronies to fix the result of the referndum. As reported in today’s Telegraph:
“Voters in the EU referendum ‘told to vote for Remain in postal vote guide’, prompting protests from Brexiteers
The How to Vote By Post guide has a pencil and hand indicating the Remain box’ “
May 30, 2016
Well put John,
I’d like some of the media interviews with the Remain Camp to ask the question:
“What are the risks to remaining in the politically uniting EU ?”
And I don’t believe Cameron’s so-called opt-out on this will hold water.
May 30, 2016
Sorry to impose, but I could do with a link to show the IMF and the World Bank advising the UK to join the ERM and/or the Euro.
I’m involved in various online debates and they all rather depend on discrediting the advice these organisations are giving now.
This is crucial to the economic argument and google isn’t being very helpful.
May 30, 2016
Ask this same question on Richard North’s website and you will get a detailed answer, I think.
May 30, 2016
The Remain case is that they are NOT racists while the Brexit group ARE racists.
The Brexit case has been that of greater sovereignty and democracy if we leave.
This has characterised the poor quality of the debate.
May 30, 2016
I have met many deluded people in my lifetime and interestingly enough not one of them made a successful career for themselves . John’s list today of the idiotic beliefs of the “remainers” is just another reminder of why the case they make does not hold water and will quickly go down the drain .
The good news for me today came from my friend in Sonning – he had received a letter from his Vicar ( sent to all households in his Parish ) explaining why he supported “Brexit”. This was a very “gutsy” thing for a Vicar to do and he should be commended for his efforts . I asked my friend how old the Vicar was and was told he was in his forties ; good news again if he represents how the younger people will vote and think .
May 30, 2016
Then there is the all encompassing one, our lackspittle PM will use all the facilities of his office to subvert the outcome of the referendum. He is totally dishonest in his efforts to frighten the Public into voting to remain in the EU.
I take exception to his saying I am immoral and disloyal in wanting to leave the EU. From a man who tries to change the meaning of the word sovereignty this is rich.
My LOYALTY is to the CROWN and COUNTRY, the UNITED KINGDOM not a foreign organisation the EU, having served in the armed forces.
May 30, 2016
Rather off-topic, Boris Johnson has his article in the Telegraph today:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/29/the-only-continent-with-weaker-economic-growth-than-europe-is-an/
and near the beginning he writes:
“We can dismiss most of the claims for the âsingle marketâ â too often an excuse for a morass of politically driven legislation that costs UK business about ÂŁ600 million a week.”
Well, we can dismiss the exaggerated claims about the benefits of the Single Market, including those from the government, not least because previously the same government did not dispute the EU Commission’s estimate that the Single Market had increased the collective GDP of the EU member states by about 2%, and it seems that the benefit to the UK has been well below that average and more like 1% of GDP. How the Treasury can conclude that we would lose far more than that if we left is a bit of a puzzle.
However I’m concerned about the arithmetic when he writes about “a morass of politically driven legislation that costs UK business about ÂŁ600 million a week”.
ÂŁ600 million a week = ÂŁ31 billion a year, and with UK GDP at ÂŁ1800 billion that works out at a mere 1.7% of GDP.
On the face of it that doesn’t square with a claim made by Priti Patel a month ago:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3562573/Brussels-diktats-costing-families-4-600-year-Employment-minister-say-homes-small-businesses-throttled-Brexit-boost-economy-billions.html
“She will cite research by the Treasury that the EUâs âsingle marketâ could impose costs of 7 per cent of GDP on the UK economy, or ÂŁ125.2 billion per year.”
I am not seeking precision here, because there is simply no precision available to anyone on either side of the debate; but obviously 7% is a lot more than 2% when it is the cost of unnecessary EU regulations required by the Single Market, just as 6% is a lot more than 1% when it is the benefit we would lose if we left the Single Market.
But then all these numbers have to be put in the context of a 2.5% a year long term trend rate for the natural growth of the UK economy, going back to at least 1956. People in the future will not be fretting that they could have got their present standard of living some months earlier if only we had stayed in the EU, nor will they be rejoicing that they have got their present standard of living some months sooner because we left the EU.
May 30, 2016
Off Topic
How does the recent decision to close our local Coast Guard Stations look now, given we have little boats crossing the Channel with possible, illegals, drugs, terrorists on board.
Shame we do not even have fishery protection boats available now to patrol our coastline. No need for them if you do not have a fishing fleet !
Anyone who either owns, or has travelled in a small boat across the Channel will tell you that security is more than just lax, it just does not exist.
All you do now is call up the harbour master when approaching and ask for permission to enter the harbour, as he is in control of harbour traffic management.
No permission at all if your destination is a beach, as now some are finding out.
Complete and utter madness as many of us said at the time the decision was made.
We have the 4th largest spend on Defence in the World, are a Nuclear power, but cannot stop people with kiddies inflatables from invading us.
Next we will be asking the RNLI (a voluntary and charitable organisation) to do the patrol’s on our behalf.
You could not make it up !!!!
Only in the UK !!!!
Politicians don’t you just love em !!
Once again they know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing. !.
May 30, 2016
Supreme irony !
It’s true, despite the bluster and lies, Remain does not really have a strong case. The only serious argument they make is the economic one and every economic forecast I’ve ever seen over the 44 years I have worked in the Financial Services business has been wrong. These will be no different.
In the last week of so I have heard several interviews with left of centre people who’s opinions I respect. These include Gizela Stuart and Yanis Varoufakis ( Read his book !).
All share my view that the countries of the Eurozone will not be able to fully integrate as they need too in order to preserve the Euro : the people will not go along with the loss of sovereignty that this would entail and, as a result, the collapse of the single currency is inevitable.
My view is that it will split into up to four different currency zones with several countries deciding to go it alone. Predicting which would be impossible at this stage.
As a result, all bets are off : the only certainty is that it will not be planned and well managed. Junkers and Co. will keep their heads firmly in the sand in the hope that something will turn up but it will be the markets that will push the Euro over the edge, almost certainly because of deteriorating numbers in either the French, Italian or Spanish economies. As we all know, those countries are too large to be bailed out and one or more could be forced out of the Euro. It will happen suddenly and with little warning. It might even be next year if Marine LePenn were to move into the ĂlysĂ©e Palace.
I strongly believe that there really is more risk in staying in.
There are things we can do to protect ourselves, whatever the outcome of the referendum : Most of all, Britain needs to concentrate all it’s efforts into generating trade with the rest of the world rather than Europe. Every ÂŁ1bn we increase trade with the rest of the world will be invaluable when the Eurozone inevitably collapses and Europe slides into recession.
This could be much more easily done outside the EU : Starting on 24th June, we should immediately become very proactive in securing free trade deals with anyone who will talk to us. ( That will be almost everyone, despite what Obama, CMD and Osbourne are saying ).
I’m off on a trip to Thailand on Wednesday but back in time to vote. In the meantime, keep up the good work !
May 30, 2016
Many voters complain about the lack of facts in the various arguments.
All financial and trade predictions are pure conjecture.
There are very few hard facts at all, but two of them are that we will gain complete sovereignty and we will no longer have to pay our current membership fee. Doubtless there are other favourable incontrovertible facts that should be put to the fore by the Leave campaign.
The Leave campaign must refute any guesswork on the part of the Remains and concentrate on the positives of Brexit.
David Cameron is currently on TV with Sadiq Khan and there is a sign behind them that says the EU protects workers’ rights. Have they consulted the French about that?
May 30, 2016
Good. Nice succinct points, easy to understand. Now if only you can get the Leave campaign to do something similar, we might gain some ground. Also, over the next 3 weeks we need some idea of the costs of staying in, rather like Osborne’s ÂŁ4300 cost of exiting, except it need to be truthful and robust.
The ÂŁ350 million a week campaign is a busted flush and needs to be forgotten. If they won’t paint it out, at least let it be the real cost, not one which is no longer believed even among Leavers and hard for them to defend.
Nothing concentrates people’s minds like money. We could do with a Brexit Bonus – share the 10 billion for the first year among taxpayers. Don’t know how much is would amount to, but a couple of hundred quid per household would be nice. Once it is shown how much it really costs, people might take notice. 10 billion to most people is unimaginable and meaningless and we are even told on Question Time and the like by politicians and economists that it is only a small sum. The 10 billion also does not take account of the ‘odds and ends’ of a few billion here and there which the EU levies on us out of the blue for things like prostitution etc. which Cameron says he will not pay, then does. It all adds up. It is not small beer to the ordinary taxpayers and needs to be shown. You could say we could cut VAT in half, or lower income tax or whatever is appropriate. It doesn’t need to be spent on the NHS – we could easily make that up by cutting Foreign Aid in half.
May 30, 2016
Well, JR, right on cue Cameron answers your headline question:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/eu-referendum-david-cameron-and-sadiq-khan-join-forces-to-launch/
âThese guarantees â from safeguarding our economy to protecting our security â show the positive case for remaining inside the EU.”
Which “guarantees” would they be?
Why, the five “guarantees” on the five-point pledge card that Cameron is launching alongside Sadiq Kahn today.
But are any of them “cast iron”? If so, please could we have the additional reassurance of having them engraved on a large block of stone?
May 30, 2016
Before stinging the country for any stone-masonry expenses, Cameron should first be made to settle his account on his earlier promises to reduce immigration.
In 2010, Cameron significantly emphasised: âThis is our contract with you. I want you to read it and â if we win the election â use it to hold us to account. If we don’t deliver our side of the bargain, vote us out in five years’ time.â
In 2015 he repeated that promise while quite clearly being unable to meet it and just as significantly having no realistic expectation of being able to meet it without leaving the EU.
May 30, 2016
Denis, have quoted you with acknowledgement on Richard North’s website. I would rather he directed his fire to Cameron’s pledges than to the Leave campaign.
May 30, 2016
“1. Full access to the EUâs single market: supporting 3 million jobs, lower prices for families and a strong economy to fund the NHS.”
“supporting 3 million jobs”?
This is from page 15 -16 of the report from the Commons Treasury committee:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmtreasy/122/122.pdf
“50. It is misleading to claim, as some campaign groups continue to do, that 3 million
jobs are dependent on EU membership. Britain Stronger in Europe, the lead remain
campaign group, has at least made clear in evidence to this Committee, if not in some
of its literature, that its use of the 3 million figure should not be taken to represent the
number of jobs dependent on EU membership, but the number associated with trade
with the EU. Without an estimate of how much trade would be lost as a result of Brexit, the impact on job losses cannot readily be estimated. The wider public might form the
mistaken impression that all these jobs would be lost or at risk if the UK left the EU.
Campaigners should be clear that 3 million jobs may be associated with, but would not
necessarily be dependent on, our membership of the EU.”
So once again our Prime Minister shows his complete contempt not just for the British people but for their Parliament.
May 30, 2016
“2. Workersâ rights protected: paid leave, parental rights, holidays and anti-discrimination laws.”
Because the present Tory Prime Minister fears that once freed from the constraints of the EU the Tory party he leads might take an axe to those workers’ rights, while the Labour Mayor of London assumes that his party is pretty much washed up and there will always be a Tory government doing these wicked things if not stopped by Brussels.
May 30, 2016
“3. Keeping the European Arrest Warrant: fighting crime and terrorism, bringing criminals to justice.”
Exposing every innocent Briton to the risk of arbitrary arrest and summary deportation to a foreign jurisdiction where they can rot in jail for many months without even having specific charges laid against them let alone being brought to trial:
https://euobserver.com/justice/133554
âDire pre-trial prison conditions in some EU statesâ
âFair Trials International details the abuse and case history of people, some innocent, whose lives have been ruined.â
âMany of the cases are also tied to long outstanding issues over the European Arrest Warrant (EAW).â
Which my own MP decided to opt back into, putting all her constituents at risk, and somehow that slipped past Hague’s “referendum lock” law, didn’t it, and now Cameron actually boasts about it.
May 31, 2016
If the EAW is a European AW what has it got to do with the EU? It’s not an EUAW is it.
May 30, 2016
“4. A special status in Europe: never joining the euro while keeping control of our borders, and new rules so EU nationals only have access to welfare once theyâve paid in.”
The UK’s only “special status”, and not “in Europe” but “in the EU”, is that it is the odd man out on the most important projects of the EU, a laggard which will take some time to catch up with the mainstream member states by joining the euro, and Schengen, and the common asylum and immigration policy, and the Justice and Home Affairs; there is no way that Cameron can say “never” joining the euro any more than he can say “keeping” control of our borders; and as we know his so-called “deal” including “new rules” on access to benefits is not “legally binding and irreversible”, that is a lie.
May 30, 2016
“5. Stability for our country: protecting living standards and avoiding potential recessionâ.
The likelihood of recession has been significantly increased by Cameron, Osborne and other Remainders deliberately spreading unnecessary fear and undermining confidence, in fact acting like enemies of the British people by talking down their economy.
May 30, 2016
If we stay we just don’t know, if we leave we just don’t know, but I for one would sooner leave and be free to make choices be them right or wrong. Than be told by people we have no control over what I have to except, knowing that what is happening to my country is frightening.
May 30, 2016
We do not have an equal contest; on the one hand we have the English-hating enemy within and the English-hating foreigners without who are prepared to tell us that a cataclysm lies in wait for Brexit, and on the other hand, Brexiters can at best only credibly claim that things will more or less proceed as normal, initially, because it will take time to rectify the damage inflicted on this country by forty years of economic and political misrule. In addition, CMD has demonstrated how an entirely corrupt PM can abuse his overmighty powers of patronage to oblige all those who owe their positions or prosperity to taxpayers’ indulgence to commit public acts of obeisance to the Brussels regime which itself has been bankrolling quangos and ‘charities’ with our money to promote tell us how wonderful it is. (That is if you believe that river basins should be flooded to help aquatic birds and that windmills should be erected to slaughter others).
Let’s vote Brexit to keep Turkish miltiamen off our streets.
May 30, 2016
It annoys me that BBC types consider that I am too old to be taken notice of and that the future is for the young. Yet I was too young to have voted in the last referendum – so have had no say at all !
I probably have a good forty years left in me, so how much of a future do I have to have to qualify for an opinion ?
May 30, 2016
OT. Seems our defence budget is once again being used to finance a free ferry service for economic immigrants in the Med. So much for “smashing people smugglers”. When history looks back in 100 years it will shake its head in disbelief that the defenders actually brought the invaders to their lands using the very assets they should be protecting themselves with.
May 30, 2016
Can the majority be taken in by the Remain propaganda? Of course.
That a population of 60 million plus needs a lot of immigrants to sustain, improve our economy, to make us richer, to run the NHS and buses and tube etc., etc. it shows that the ‘locals’ are so stupid, incompetent, lazy, uneducated, layabouts, depressed, weak etc., etc., take your pick, that to Remain looks good and we need more immigrants to sort us out.
That New Zealand can prosper with a population of 4 million, Finland with 5.2, Austria with 8.1, H.K. with 7, Aussy with 23, Sweden with 9, Switzerland with 8, Iceland with 300,000 (before 2007 with 285,000 they had higher per capita income that the UK) shows that they are so much better at running things than we are.
Rising UK population crowding us out? A price worth paying surely, say those who won’t have to pay.
May 30, 2016
Just to clarify – my point is that why do the powers that be think we need all these outside people to help us? It would appear that they think we are incompetent to do it ourselves when I am sure we are not – well I hope so with our massive population of over 60 million when others much smaller can operate successfully.
May 30, 2016
What exactly happens when all these immigrants eventually age and become dependent on the state? Surely, we shall need even more immigrants to support that ageing population. To take this argument to its logical conclusion, shouldn’t we need an ever-expanding population? Sounds a bit like the expanding universe.
Sorry to sound somewhat negative, but whilst I agree with more than 90% of the opinions expresed in this blog, I fear that more than 90% of the population do not read it, so you are all preaching to the converted.
May 30, 2016
One thing’s for sure.
The EU is not the unifying force that its proponents claim. It has torn our country down the middle.
May 30, 2016
Problem with leave is they think we can the get all benefits of Golf Club membership without having to pay fees or abide by the rules.
That fantasy has yet to be fully explained to me!
May 30, 2016
We don’t want to ‘join the golf club’. All we ask for is free trade and friendly relations, and the freedom to make our own decisions as a country with regards to international issues. That needn’t cost anything. The ‘Single Market’ is far from free.
Why should we accept threats to impose a quasi ‘continental’ system from so called friends? No need at all, and isn’t going to happen unless they want to plunge the EU further into recession. The bottom line is that the EU commission now that they will need a new paymaster if we leave, and other countries will want similar access to what we have. The Brussels ‘wizards of Oz’ will be revealed for what they really are.
Germany (quite rightly) doesn’t want to pay further into the EU, there will be a sensible accommodation.
Iceland has managed sensible access to the European market, and guess what? Iceland negotiated a free trade deal with China in 2013. If they can, we can too!
How is the EU getting along with a free trade deal with China? ?
zorro
May 30, 2016
The EU is protectionist to the core….. European Unemployment Recession Organisation…… How are they providing employment for Greek or Spanish youth?
RING THE MESSAGE LOUD AND CLEAR!!
zorro
May 30, 2016
I will repeat, brexiters want , without being a member, all benefits of Golf Club membership having to pay fees or abide by the rules.
The “golf club” cannot function without green fees. The EU is effectively bust without British contributions or trade tariffs.
I do not expect that other “golf club” members will accept higher membership charges whilst someone gets to play for free…..
As regard to Iceland, are you joking? Hardly a comparable or complex economy. What do they trade other than fish?
May 31, 2016
The problem is that the EU “club” takes the money but doesn’t supply a green. All it does is allow members to play on each others greens and even move in and live on their greens without any controls…
The EU is a middle man a spiv, that does nothing for the UK other than take. There is nothing that the EU brings to the party that we can’t do outside by ourselves.
May 31, 2016
And to continue your rather strange analogy
This club has 28 members of which 7 or 8 pay a fee and the rest not only get in for free but also get a bonus “backhander” for the privilege…
Not a club that I really want to be a member of, especially as I need to borrow the membership fee in the first place.
May 31, 2016
We want to play golf (trade with EU countries) but we don’t want the golf club rules to also cover how we play football and cricket nor do we want to have to subsidise other members’ fees and equipment. The club’s committee is not elected by the members.
May 31, 2016
important exports include aluminum, ferro-silicon alloys, machinery and electronic equipment for the fishing industry, software, woollen goods.
May 30, 2016
How original. But as JR has explained more than once what the Leave side actually want is not to continue as a constantly disgruntled member but instead do the obvious thing and leave the “club”, or as I would say “cult”.
May 30, 2016
Seeing our host’s list of the future forecasts of the Remains reminds me of a little story relating to the 07/08 financial crash in which a financier is told by an acquaintance that the acquaintance “knew it was coming”.
When asked by the financier how much money he had made out of it, the acquaintance replied “Oh, nothing”
The financier responded “Then, you didn’t know!”.
May 30, 2016
If anyone believes that the Uk has influence with its financial contribution to the EU, search for the published Structure of the EU Commission. It has:
A President (Mr Juncker),
a First Vice President,
Five other Vice Presidents and
Twenty (ordinary) Commissioners who report to them.
We have one of the twenty Lord Hill.
When we joined the EEC there were a total of 13 Commissioners of which we had two.
May 30, 2016
One of the Commissioners is a UK citizen but has sworn an oath of office that he will serve the EU as a whole, so he is their Commissioner, not ours.
May 30, 2016
We put you at the top of our news this morning, with links to your last five articles.
Well-deserved, considering you’re practically an entire campaign all on your own.
Best wishes,
http://facts4eu.org/news.shtml
The Facts4EU.org Team
May 30, 2016
“PM Hails ‘Proud Muslim’ Khan On EU Trail” ( UK edition Sky News 30/05/2016 )
It does not state if, my parentheses: “Mayor of London Hails ‘Proud Christian” or ‘Proud Hindu’ Cameron On EU Trail ”
Perhaps Cameron is not a Proud Christian or a Proud Hindu. Obviously he cannot be Proud British or he would not drag his anorak in the mud of the Remain Camp in London or anywhere else in the UK
May 30, 2016
Correction: I should have typed “my quotation marks” instead of ” my parentheses “.
Indicated it was the ONLINE edition. Also that Mr Cameron could well be a Proud member of any other religion than Hindu or Christian, belief system or none.
I was not aware Mr Khan, the Lord Mayor of London is a Muslim or otherwise, and indeed whether he is proud of it. Odd that Mr Cameron should bring religion into the Referendum debate.
May 30, 2016
The case for leaving is overwhelming…either David Cameron is working on behalf of a narrow self interested elite or he is stupid. I elected my Mp to work in ‘my best interests’ not those of Mr Juncker or the Greek prime minister..or a cartel of wealthy land owners who do well from Eu grants and subsidies. When will the 1922 committee rise up and tell Mr Cameron he is out of order and either moderate his tone or be removed .
I for one do not care if the size of the economy is smaller if we leave the EU – it seems a reasonable assumption to make that if 350,000 people arrive here every year GDP will go up. When is the Vote leave campaign going to squash the lie that GDP and average income are not the same ?. It is GDP per capita and the quality of the value adding part of the newcomers jobs that concern me. British is becoming a sweatshop low productivity low wage country.
Has the cost of expanding public services ever been properly costed?…who has estimated the costs when all these ‘young’ migrants become older and need more NHS care? .
May 30, 2016
OT again; these Albanians need to be immediately deported. I’ve just been to Albania and unless you’re a mafiosa who’s double crossed the boss it’s safe as houses.
Slogans of the day:
“I’m voting Leave because I believe in Britain”.
“Olympics 2016 – Go Team GB. Olympics 2028 – Go Team EU”.
May 30, 2016
Trevor Kavanagh, with his hard hitting article plus cartoon today in The Sun has my full support:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/suncolumnists/trevorkavanagh/7183398/Mass-immigration-is-not-the-answer.html
May 30, 2016
In my late 40s I guess I am one of the ‘old’s that Kavanagh mentions and that the Tory party despises (courting the over 18’s vote.)
I was too young to vote in the last referendum and was raised in full-on multicultural London. Yet I am too old to have an opinion of any value in this one.
That discounts Osborne and Cameron too then !
May 30, 2016
You have forgotten the very important plus point which is – the EU has been reformed, or – we should remain in the reformed European Union! Mr Cameron did say he would back ‘Exit’ if reforms were not secured and we could make our way happily in the World with confidence in such an event.
I watched Mr Cameron again say he had got these reforms today, with emphasis, at the launch of the Remain Battlebus with his new best friend Sadiq Khan.
I would like to know what these reforms are please as Googling has failed to discover them!
They must exist as I cannot believe that our PM would tell a bare faced lie on television for all to see and hear?
May 30, 2016
Ken, no not Red Ken this time, but “Old Smokey” Ken Clarke, says Boris is a nicer version of Trump.
What is it with the Remain Campaign? They seem to feel Mr Trump is British, perhaps a Londoner, maybe an EU citizen. Why else would Mr Khan and now Old Smokey Ken rant on about him? Religion,according to Cameron is also something to do with the Referendum.
Well, religion, would be an issue for many EU nation states in point of fact IF they were taking part in the British Referendum, But they are not.
Just what is the Remain Camp on? Their minds wander with no rhyme or reason from an unelected American businessman to ones personal religious beliefs. From summer holidays to nuclear war. They need to get a grip. Try digging their nails into the palms of their hands…Concentrate. Subject-Object-Verb. Subject-Object-Verb. Subject-Object-Verb. Drinking orange juice with enhanced vitamin C as was the urban legend in the excessive 1960s could help.
May 30, 2016
I sometimes wonder if Winston Churchill had a crystal ball or was able to foretell the future. On the 24th of April 1933 he made a speech to the Royal Society of St George in London, during which he said âOn this one night in the whole year we are allowed to use a forgotten, almost forbidden word. We are allowed to mention the name of our own country, to speak of ourselves as âEnglishmenâ, and we may even raise the slogan âSt George for Merrie England. We must be careful, however. You see these microphones? They have been placed on our tables by the British Broadcasting Corporation.â
âHistorians have noticed, all down the centuries, one peculiarity of the English people which has cost them dear. The worst difficulties from which we suffer do not come from without. They come from within. They do not come from the cottages of the wage â earners. They come from a peculiar type of brainy people always found in our country, who, if they add something to its culture, take much from its strength.â
âOur difficulties come from the mood of unwarrantable self -abasement into which we have been cast by a powerful section of our own intellectuals. They come from the acceptance of defeatist doctrines by a large proportion of our politicians. But what have they to offer but vague internationalism, a squalid materialism, and the promise of impossible Utopias?â âNothing can save England if she will not save herself.â
Pretty much sums up where we are today, does it not?
May 30, 2016
Just heard on BBC Parliament “Select Committee Rooms: Russia: Implications for UK Defence” originally screened 24th May 2016. Rt Hon Mr Fallon Defence Secretary, he is a one.
Dr Julian Lewis, Chair of the Defence Committee, successfully countered Mr Fallon’s assertion and stated a Brexited UK could just as effectively have joined with the EU in mounting economic sanctions against Russia.
As a Defence Minister, Mr Fallon unknowingly dropped himself in it if he ever wished to be thought strategically, militarily and diplomatically wise. He said , and I paraphrase not unkindly, ” The weight of the UK would strengthen the EU resolve to make economic sanctions as some EU states would be more weak in agreeing to and applying sanctions.”
There, straight from Mr Fallon’s mouth is an admission that the EU is being used for aggressive trade war against an adversary: that there is disunity and disagreement within the EU on a nation-state level on exercising sanctions against Russia. Importantly that those nation states who perhaps would have a more affable approach to Russia-EU relations were nevertheless compelled and indeed bullied, in the common use of the term, in doing something which by their own democratic nation state’s democratic model they would not wish to do nor wish to do. This also revealed the UK had a unwelcome undemocratic “weight” in the decision making of the EU.
If Russia did not already know the weaknesses of the EU in waging sanctions it most certainly does now and Mr Fallon’s reply will be typed, photocopied and distributed to every Russian FSB Training School and Agency throughout the world.
Mr Fallon, I know, was aware he was talking in public…for public consumption. One hopes he is not so wet behind the ears and still with a babe’s glued eyelids in all matters relating to relations with our very close neighbour Russia and her allies.
Those small nation states in Europe who have had a mercenary love/hate relationship with Russia for centuries are, on balance,since being bullied by the UK and the EU into rekindling their periodic kinder thoughts to Russia.
The UK/ EU is creating within itself a fifth column of pro-Russia sentiment. There can be few “secret” meetings with the majority of EU states where Mr Fallon’s words are not conveyed immediately to Russia.
It is common currency the EU sanctions had zero effect on Russia. In any event Russia and indeed EU nations were able and did circumvent the sanctions via exports and imports via third countries such as Belarus and Yes even through, even via, the EU’s precious Ukraine..Both legally and illegally.
Even at the height of the Cold War, people, not just secret agents were smuggled from East to West and vice-versa with the greatest of ease. Forget The Third Man movie starring Orsen Welles needing to scurry about in sewers. Money buys everything, and blackmail with symbiotic trade-offs complete the currency of Hell: valid documentation.
No problem.
Maybe Mr Fallon and the Remaindians are pretending to be naive for they feel the British public requires and only understands naivety. Asylum seekers and former Eastern bloc migrants are not naive. They are street-wise. They certainly, smile and laugh at the likes of Mr Fallon’s sombre tones and the graceless assurances by the Home Secretary she is in control of our borders.
If Mr Fallon and others were young enough and of the dramatic arts, they might venture abroad, pretend to be a migrant with poor English skills. They would find they were able to travel the length and breadth of not only the EU but into the Far East. For Heaven’s sake, have not “unaccompanied kids” done it? Many times.
The Remain camp lacks any credible reason to stay in the EU.
If anything, our security would be enhanced by keeping our gobs tight shut with nations east of Dover.
May 30, 2016
What is both astonishing and inexplicable is that had Cameron kept his word and put the British Government behind “Leave” when his renegotiation failed completely, he could have become a national hero alongside Nelson and Drake.
It is as if he believes that as a member of the “Ruling class” it is his duty to stamp on democracy and self determination.
His loyalties lie elsewhere.
May 30, 2016
The risk to Gibraltar might be greater if we stay in the EU than if we leave.
Given the horse trading that goes on behind the scenes, and the EU’s foreign policy ambitions, it is perfectly conceivable that in a few years time the EU will order the UK to hand Gibraltar back to the Spanish. If we vote remain, it will of course be our duty to obey. I have no doubt whatsoever that that is exactly Spain’s intention, and, that behind the scenes work is well under way in that direction.
Note too that Spain’s sympathies regarding the Falklands lie more with Argentina than the UK, and be in no doubt that the EU would not hesitate to interfere there too.
Enemies from battles fought down through the ages are queueing up to knife us in the back. The past is not (unfortunately) forgotten.
.
May 30, 2016
Off-topic, however:
I read in today’s Telegraph that one of the highly-principled members of the House of Lords has spent ÂŁ9,000 on areturn flighta to the USA in order to give four-minute speech.
With representatives like that, can the EU politicians be much worse?
May 30, 2016
I see the Electoral Commission has apparently acted to ban biased postal voting guides:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…
May 30, 2016
Having been out canvassing for Vote Leave, when I met a Remainer there is a complete dearth of logical reason for voting in. The single vague reason is – I just feel we should. Mostly they just walk off as if they know that Brexit has all the arguments but they cannot contest them. What basis is that for deciding the future of this nation? Heaven help us.
May 30, 2016
Remain are placing great emphasis on a poll of economists that they claim shows the economic argument for IN is ‘settled’. It’s laughable but it’s a claim largely going unchallenged in this age of dumbed down lying politics.
What they don’t say is that of the 3,818 economists polled , 3/5 couldn’t be bothered to reply. (only 639 replies which must introduce an element of bias…perhaps only economists sensitive to funding cuts replied). The response rate was just 17% yet we are led to believe economists are dieing to tell us of the Armageddon we face if we vote leave.
Why isn’t the Vote Leave campaign shouting about this unfairness…does anyone at Leave know about this – the campaign is so weak and lacklustre its hard to know ??
Are John Redwood et al getting around a table and planning the best lines of attack. Or is at as I suspect far more shambolic with individuals going off and doing their own thing for want of a central strategy ?….going into interviews without being adequately briefed.
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3739/Economists-Views-on-Brexit.aspx
June 6, 2016
“What they donât say is that of the 3,818 economists polled , 3/5 couldnât be bothered to reply. (only 639 replies which must introduce an element of bias⊔
2/5 of 3,818 = 1526 not 639.
May 30, 2016
The leaders of the Remain campaign are fond of listing the big name world leaders and institutions who say Brexit will be a disaster. However, there is always one unaccountable omission from this anti Brexit list. That is the top Wall St bank Goldman Sachs. Is this not a shade ungrateful when this great American bank is the leading donor to the Remain campaign?
May 30, 2016
I have signed this – Hope is the last thing to die …..
We require Parliament to debate Lord Kilmuir’s letter to Edward Heath
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/122770