The extraordinary resignation of a recently elected leader, and the much debated dispute between two MEPs, has created much media interest in who might both win the leadership and then do the job. As some enthusiastic UKIP supporters regularly write in here I am offering them today the chance to tell us who they want and what they think about their leadership contests so far. It would also be interesting to hear what they think the role of the party is now we are leaving the EU. I am not looking for a blow by blow account of any physical contact between the two MEPs, but I and other readers here would be interested to know what the main arguments are that are clearly generating passions amongst UKIP members generally.
130 Comments
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October 8, 2016
Ukip’s job is to keep the government in the real centre. The disparity between govt and public on brexit proves that the govt is too left wing for the people. Without constant badgering it is likely to swing to the left. Ukip got us this referendum, and if it disappears, we will find ourselves fighting the same battle again. We also want a small, non-interventionist government.
Reply Conservative MPs got you the referendum, not UKIP
October 8, 2016
Your reply is garnered through rose tinted spectacles. Cameron only offered it due to the threat of UKIP and the fear of loosing the last election. It was the threat of an SNP/Labour alliance that limited the UKIP vote to 4 Million , allowing Cameron to scrape home. UKIP were the only party to stand up in the European Parliament and expose the EU for what it is, with the exception of Daniel Hannan.
Reply You were not present at the private meetings we held with Mr Cameron which led to the referendum. I was. The crucial electoral arithmetic which swayed the decision was the number of Conservative MP votes we had for a referendum. That was what we talked about. We did not talk about UKIP’s rating in the polls.
October 8, 2016
The private meetings may well have decided the feasibility of getting the referendum through the H o C, but the motivation was the threat of UKIP in the 2015 election. You may have wanted the referendum, but there was nothing from Cameron before, during or after said referendum that even suggested that he did. Putting it bluntly he was dragged reluctantly to the wedding and then protested from the front of the church as to why it should not be voted for.
Reply Mr Cameron thought UKIP would not win a single seat at the GE in 2015, and we agreed with him. After the defections of Douglas Carswell and the Rochester MP we thought Douglas might be able to hold the seat. UKIP was not the issue – the issue was when we got to a simple majority of the Conservative Parly party which meant we could then vote for a change of leader. Mr Cameron understood that precisely without us having to spell it out.
October 8, 2016
The UKIP victory of the EU elections petrified the establishment and the Tory party. It was a clear victory for the people over the Westminster rabble. The rest is sound music from Tory faithful to keep a lid on the closed Westminster shop.
October 8, 2016
To reply: No, but UKIP gave us the opportunity to make the electorate arithmetic apparent through local and EU elections. Without that, and taking into consideration the fact that most Leave voters believe in democracy and not violent protest, we probably wouldn’t have been given the voice to ask for the referendum.
Let’s face it, the LibLabCon cohort in Westminster – aside from yourself – toes the party line and doesn’t listen to the concerns of its electorate.
October 8, 2016
I seem to recall other Tories coming to blows and only this week Clarke reminds us how he and others in your party denied the public will to oust Thatcher! Will you raise issues of (very old and much discussed cases ed) and others who acted so disgracefully in office? Perhaps tell us why there is institutional corruption at Westminster after Cameron promised to sort out? Perhaps you could tell us why your leaders declare themselves liberals or heirs to Labour? The values of May this week clearly no where near conservative values. We have not left the EU and still do not know why May accepts threats from Hollande, Merkel or EU leaders? Still no action on stopping mass immigration or mass illegal immigration as described by a former Border Agenyc leader when May was responsible as HS!
JR, look in the mirror and you will see that many of us are conservatives without a party as Tim Montgomery and others clearly described. Your party is conservative in name only. You are in self denial as one of the few who wants to be a conservative in a party that has taken over the position new Labour. You are in a minority of Tories who want to leave the EU and are powerless to do anything about your leadership wishes. Morgan, Clarke, Soubry and many others still plotting how to deny the public will to leave the EU in its entirety.
October 9, 2016
Well said, Hope.
October 8, 2016
Reply to reply:
There was only any decision to be made at all about a referendum because there was an outside force i.e. UKIP putting pressure on those Conservative MPs. You really think Cameron conjured up this idea from thin air?
October 8, 2016
At the EU Parliamentary Election of 2014, UKIP won substantially more votes and seats than the Conservative Party; incidentally, if the Tory Party is really a Eurosceptic Party now, why is it still in the ECR which wishes to remain in the EU? Should you not be in the EFDD of which Nigel Farage provides excellent leadership?
CMD was so unconcerned about UKIP at the 2015 General Election that Central Office, at its expense, bussed in activists to every Constituency in which UKIP was perceived as a threat to the extent that there is some doubt as to extent to which Electoral Commission rules on expenses had been folllowed.
Essentially, the Tory Party is rather more concerned about its own survival than that of the country.
October 8, 2016
What forthurst says here is consistent with the impression I got as an interested outsider, and the impression I still have of the Tory Party in general; its leadership and senior ranks in particular.
October 8, 2016
@forthurst; What is your point, much of the public probably just considers the EP elections either not worth bothering about or some place to cast a protest vote, remember that turn out, as usual for EP elections, at the 2014 EP election was very low in the UK (35% nationally), even in traditionally europhile areas of the country. Now consider the total number of votes UKIP got in either the 2010 or 2015 General Elections and compare them to the Conservative vote…
Are you really trying to suggest that UKIP was a threat to the chances of another Conservative government (with a manifesto pledge to hold a In/Out referendum), even if it was, what would have been the result, not a UKIP government, not even a coalition government with UKIP in it, no the most likely result would have meant a europhile Ed Miliband lead government perhaps -with Green or SNP support, whose first act would likely have been to repeal Cameron’s referendum locks etc.
Yes the Tories fought hard against UKIP, but did they so in fear of possibly UKIP ‘wins’ or to protect UKIPers from themselves, from what would have likely been the most Europhile government ever.
October 9, 2016
More straw man arguments from Jerry.
October 9, 2016
@forthurst; If they are “straw arguments” then best you tell the electoral commission their official figures are wrong!
October 9, 2016
Jerry, the Electoral commission is not responsible for your inability to understand elementary logic; try starting your arguments with a valid premise rather than flights of fancy ignoring chronology.
October 10, 2016
@forthurst; “flights of fancy” That’s a bit rich coming from a UKIPer, do feel free to remind us how many MPs UKIP actually have!
But if my logic (using the official voting figures from the last couple of GEs) is so wrong do please explain the logic that would have seen UKIP gain anything like the number of seats that would allow them to be the balance of power that the LDs were in 2010 under the FPTP system. Yes if some other voting system was used then UKIP would get more seats, but so would other more europhile parties. Countries in Europe that have PR tend to have far more and far stronger pro EU governments!
What do you not understand, UKIP doesn’t just have to merely rout votes from Conservative candidates in such constituencies, they would need to win the seats, if they do not but simply allow either Labour or the LDs win the seat instead then UKIP would have kept the UK in the EU because neither Labour nor a Lab/SNP (+ perhaps LD and Greens grand-)coalition would have held the Brexit referendum.
October 8, 2016
Cameron did indeed only offer it under extreme pressure, he also only got the job as Leader by pretending to be a Eurosceptic, low tax at heart, Cast Iron, Conservative when he was none of these things. He probably assumed it would be another hung parliament so he could get out of his referendum promise too.
He also probably thought that by slanting the pitch as he did so blatantly and with project fear & Obama etc. he could win it.
Still he has done the decent think now and gone. Unlike Osborne who was against the UK voters having any say at all.
October 8, 2016
Reply to reply – Without this renegade party would your words have conveyed any real force ?
October 9, 2016
JR: “You were not present at the private meetings we held with Mr Cameron …”
This is the second time, I attempted to reply to this comment. The first was so full of expletives that I had to delete it.
I’ve had enough of your Cigars and Cognac swilling little private meetings ( all funded at the tax payers expense ) – if that’s how you intend to continue to run the country, that’s good enough for me – I’ll never vote Conservative again.
Reply They were working meetings with no drinks or cigars. I do not smoke anyway.
October 8, 2016
Comment on Reply–On this subject, Dear John, you talk complete nonsense. A referendum would hardly have been discussed never mind actioned if there had been no UKIP. That said, there is no question of having to decide which of two brought on the referendum. I am happy to acknowledge that both UKIP and the cohort of which you are a prominent part played vital roles. You simply won’t give Nigel Farage his due. What he achieved seems more impressive by the day.
October 8, 2016
Leslie, I agree! John – arguing about who managed to get the referendum into the Tory manifesto and who managed to persuade the voters to support BREXIT is now pretty sterile if not destructive. How many times did Cameron say (at the dispatch box and elsewhere) that there would be no referendum? His ‘cast-iron guarantee’ over Lisbon was eventually delivered.
October 8, 2016
@Leslie Singleton; What utter hyperbolic nonsense, see by reply to @forthurst above for why. The only thing UKIP could have ever achieved at the ballot box was to keep the UK in the EU…
October 9, 2016
Drivel as normal Jerry.
October 9, 2016
@Hope; “Drivel” you cry, and you have good reason to cry into your pint of bitter … well then, would you care to remind us who many MPs UKIP have. No? Thought you wouldn’t…
Perhaps you were not listening back in 2010 when Mr Farage kept boasting that is was UKIP who cause of the 2010 Coalition government.
A Coalition that directly prevented Cameron holding the In/Out referendum that had been pledged by the Tories in their 2010 manifesto. Oh and before anyone has a ‘cast iron’ rant about being denied the pledged referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, you can’t ask the voters to approve something that has already been ratified and passed into EU wide law.
UKIP are even less relevant than the Green party, and both have the same number of MPs, at least the Green party have political allies within Westminster!
October 9, 2016
Well said. It took both the external force of UKIP and internal pressure from Leave-minded Conservative MPs.
But the Leave Campaign/MPs’ refusal to acknowledge the huge, unparralled, contribution made by Nigel Farage, over 25 years is disgraceful.
October 11, 2016
I expect nothing less from most of the careerists that occupy the benches of the Commons (& the Lords), but I would expect better from our host.
His reluctance to accept UKIP’s part in bringing about the referendum is coming across as uncharacteristically churlish.
Reply You need to know what actually happened. UKIP tried to stop Eurosceptic Conservatives like me keeping our seats and getting the referendum, but we persevered and brought it about.
October 8, 2016
Despite the ‘altercation’, I would like to see Steven Wolfe lead the party. I was a fan of Diane James, who spoke so calmly in favour of Brexit before the referendum, but it looks as if she is firmly out of the running now.
I believe there is a need for UKIP, as an opposition party to hold the Government to account. Labour is in such disarray, and many of their supporters are worried about voting for them in their present state. Many people who would have voted Labour, are now uneasy, but would never vote Conservative, need a ‘middle way’. UKIP could provide it, I think.
The media, and other parties, are jeering and crowing about the present state of affairs in UKIP, but they should remember that there have been numerous scandals in all parties, and not throw too many stones. Some of those involved are now sitting in the House of Lords!
October 8, 2016
I don’t know about Steven Wolfe or the direction UKIP need to go in now, but I certainly agree with you about Diane James. She spoke well before the referendum and seemed to be the sensible face of UKIP.
October 8, 2016
I saw Nathan Gill on a welsh question time type debate and he spoke very well. He is calm and reasonable and, despite being Welsh, would be a good replacement for the scrappers. Can’t stand Mrs Evans.
October 8, 2016
Without UKIP we would not have had an EU referendum despite JR claiming otherwise. UKIP is still the only Conservative party to vote for despite its faults.
October 8, 2016
I agree; Mr Woolfe is an excellent and coherent public speaker. As a mixed race man he also put a lie to the myth pushed by the BBC and the MSM that UKIP is a rascist party.
October 8, 2016
I’m not convinced about Steven Woolfe’s public speaking skills. I haven’t gone out of my way to see him online or on television, let alone live, but I did see video of him announcing his candidacy for the UKIP leadership. I’m afraid he struggled to read his own script.
October 8, 2016
Simon:
All I can say is that I thought he put in a very creditable performance on Question Time about 2 weeks ago, while the others were shouting over each other.
October 10, 2016
He was brilliant on BBCQT and really had me thinking “why did he not stand as leader” – to which they explained that he was 17mins late putting in the application!
October 8, 2016
He is better in direct debate. He trounces opponents effortlessly.
October 8, 2016
Well, one thing springs to mind at once John. If you ever read Roger Helmer’s blog you will find he is a mine of information on energy and talks a lot of common sense. He has researched the subject in depth. UKIP are the only party that advocate reverting to sensible policies regarding energy production in the UK. They are fully aware of what renewables are doing to prices, intermittent energy production, subsidies for switching off all the time and in fact no energy at all at times. I have just looked at Hadyard Hill, one of the biggest onshore wind farms in the UK and seen that not a single turbines is moving. What a joke. I wanted Diane James to take over and feel that her appointment might have been a tactical move to get Steven Woolfe to be able to stand again for election after he was denied the first time. What is happening to UKIP is really very sad because I feel without them, we would never have had a chance for this referendum to take place. Whatever people think of Farage, he has campaigned tirelessly for this outcome and he deserves more recognition. I would not have a problem with Farage carrying on but I think that is highly unlikely. I do quite like Paul Nuttal though but am unsure who is standing again now with all this debacle going on at the moment.
October 8, 2016
Roger Helmer mentioned holding feet to fire this morning on R4..not just to keep them warm I hope? And that is the problem with the negotiation…just exactly what are we facing on this tear down.
Think with Cameron it was a case of have a Referendum but question with him was when. UKIP certainly influenced the timing and the vote. I suspect too many wrong Tories were all for the continued EU long lunches.
UKIP is looking for the common sense model for the UK..not this continued and expensive one size fits all dreamboat stuff. Helmer reckoned Tory Policy is about 80% UKIP policy now. Which rather begs a big question for UKIP….whats the point of it?
October 9, 2016
The other 20%?
October 8, 2016
UKIP’s role now must be to make sure that Mrs May gets us the Brexit deal we voted for. Unless they get their act together then they will no longer be a credible party and with Labour in such a state and Lib dims not featuring anymore this means we are a one party country. As you have said yourself John, this is not a healthy state.
I always voted Conservative and if Mrs May would just show a bit more Conservatism I could easily come back to the fold. She is a better choice than Cameron for me but not quite Thatcher quality yet.
October 8, 2016
@fedupsoutherner; ” the Brexit deal we voted for”
What was that prey? The ballot paper only asked one question, leave or remain, it did not ask what sort it Brexit we should have, stop being so bl**dy arrogant, if you mean the Brexit you want then say so! If the type of Brexit is so important then fine, make an issue out of this but – unless you plan to be undemocratic- that means a second referenda, this time asking the “How” and “When” questions…
Or perhaps, from the Brexiteers point of view, it is safer to leave such questions to our majority elected (party of) government, and before anyone has another anti Mrs May rant, the fact that the PM has changed is irrelevant, we do not elect our Prime Ministers at General Elections, indeed it would be quite possible for a party leader to loose their seat even though the party gained a governing majority.
Mrs Thatcher was no “true” Conservative, out went Conservatism, in came Monetarism (dubbed Thatcherism here in the UK, and Reaganomics in the USA), and thus you are no “Conservative” if you want a return to such policies. Feel free not to vote Conservative, sure under Mrs May’s leadership the party might loose some votes from the right-wing but remember for every such vote lost the party will likely gain (perhaps fifty or more) from the centre.
As for UKIP, they probably do not have a role now or in the future, but if they do they will not be the home of the europhobic right, they are now chasing the more numerate votes to be gained from the moderate eurosceptic Labour voter who feel disenfranchised due to the current leadership of Mr Corbyn.
October 8, 2016
Excuse me Jerry but many of the contributors on this blog have said they want to LEAVE and that is what the voted for. I am not alone thinking this. If you looked at the question on the ballot paper it was quite clear. IN or OUT
For me and many others OUT does not mean partial membership.
October 9, 2016
@fedupsoutherner; “For me and many others OUT does not mean partial membership.”
But what do the other 40m want? Who knows, we were never asked. Your protests are hollow.
As I said, if you want to make an issue of this then let’s have that second referenda – Leave might well mean Leave, it might also mean having a similar relationship as Norway or Switzerland do.
October 9, 2016
Best of five perhaps Jerry ?
October 9, 2016
@Edward2; If that is what the Brexit side want fine, but I suspect the score card will be Remain (in some form or other) 4 : 1 Brexit…
On the other hand perhaps we should just let the “Three Brexiteers” do their jobs, ably encouraged by Mrs May and people like our host.
October 10, 2016
Polls show a majority would still vote to leave the EU
October 10, 2016
@Edward2; For some being a part of the EFTA or EEA would be “leaving the EU”, for many a europhobe it would be remaining in the EU.
Also, what polls are you talking of, those published in the Daily Express or those published in the Guardian….
October 10, 2016
You claimed if we had 5 referenda the score would be 4 : 1
As usual you gave no data to back up your claim.
I have said that various polls*show that if we actually had another referendum the result would still be in favour of leaving the EU.
* Independent and Times, to give you 2 examples.
October 8, 2016
I have never been a UKIP voter though I supported their stance from within the EU to get us out. A task in which they have been partially successful in that it is left to a reluctant Conservative parliamentary party to carry out.
An interesting time for UKIP having achieved it’s raison d’etre. There is a vacancy and a job opportunity as a credible opposition to fill the vacuum left by a divided/fragmented Labour party. It is an opposition that can be as well conducted via social media as it can be within the H o C.
The only leader I am aware of is Nigel Farage. He may have to delay his retirement to create stability and a political stance on which to base their opposition. Who may follow him I know not.
It may be some time before UKIP gain seats in the H o C, given our slewed electoral system. In the meantime I would advise on the importance of social media. It is an effective way to spread their message from outside the tent, with the divorce from the EU being a prime subject. For all the talk we cannot be sure that your party can be wholly trusted with the separation, even with you prompting them.
October 8, 2016
Suzanne Evans.
Unfortunately UKIP have a tendency to self destruct every now and then, without a strong leader like Nigel Farage to keep order. This is true of many fledgeling organisations – yes I know they’ve been going for 20 years or whatever, but that is a blink of an eye in political terms. Suzanne is a good tv performer and has been kept out by others in the party, so she must have something other than the run of the mill stuff we get from politicians. She is her own woman and is not afraid even to criticize Saint Nigel.
Steven Wolfe, must, unfortunately be out of the running on health grounds. If he has blackouts, then for his own sake he must not take on the stress involved.
October 8, 2016
graham1946
Thank you!!! Your last two sentences have made me laugh so very very much .
October 9, 2016
A bang on the head, whether from a punch or fall can have very serious consequences. Epilepsy is not a funny thing, as anyone who knows sufferers will know. Let’s hope that Stephen Wolfe is cleared and this is a one off event.
He would be a very good leader if UKIP is to take over from Labour in the |North, where Corbyn is determined to annoy their supporters with his internationalist metro trot looneys now in charge.
October 9, 2016
@stred; “if UKIP is to take over from Labour in the |North, where Corbyn is determined to annoy their supporters”
Corbyn’s power base is in the North!
You seem to be forgetting that 1/. Corbyn is personally anti the EEC/EU and was well before many on the Tory right, never mind the creation of UKIP. 2/. that before 1988 Labour party police was anti the EEC/EU. 3/. many people who have (re)joined the Labour party (or have pledged support) since Corbyn’s name first went on the original list of candidates for leader are those who either left the party because of the policy shifts of Kinnock and latter Blair or younger voters who never bothered to join because of them.
If UKIP are to go after these people then UKIP will have to ditch much current policy, in doing so they will surely loose their traditional core supporters?
October 9, 2016
UKIP are taking votes from traditional Labour northern constituencies where current Labour policies are not finding favour.
You could guess they are voting against Labour rather than for UKIP but the fact remains.
Your points on the historic positions of Corbyn and the Party are correct but irrelevant.
Current Labour policy is pro EU and that is what voters see.
October 9, 2016
@Edward2; “UKIP are taking votes from traditional Labour northern constituencies where current Labour policies are not finding favour.”
Yes they have been taking votes from Labour, a party that until now has been very pro EU as you say, but it tells us nothing about what will happen in the next four years, even more so if Corbyn cements his power-base now [1] and perhaps takes Labour away from the policies of Blair, Brown and Miliband.
Did you read the article by Conservative MP Dominic Raab in the DT this past week were he warned that the Conservatives underestimate Mr Corbyn at their peril. Judging from her end of conference speech I suspect Mrs May doesn’t underestimate Mr Corbyn either.
“Current Labour policy is pro EU and that is what voters see.”
Your comment is irrelevant unless Mrs May calls an election fairly soon, and certainly before actual Brexit!
[1] which he seems to have done over this weekend, I read that he has enough like minded people on the NEC now to take control
October 10, 2016
Polls show the trend continues and that Corbyn’s popularity is poor.
October 10, 2016
@Edward2; Only trouble, similar polling immediately before the Blairites attempted coup showed that the Corbyn lead Labour party was leading the Conservatives, any party will see its support drop when there is an acrimonious leadership battle.
October 10, 2016
All polls showed Corbyn would be re elected.
He was odds on at my bookmakers throughout.
Labour has never had a poll lead post Corbyn
17 point behind now for example.
October 9, 2016
Howler
What do you find funny in a man having a collapse and being taken in to a neurological unit? Very strange sense of humour.
October 8, 2016
But what are the furious arguments actually about? Do tell us.
October 9, 2016
After Mrs Evans and Mr Wolfe had been excluded, for no good reason, one look at the other candidates would tell you. They are not in any way people who would appeal widely, with personalities to match Farage. More like local councillors who saw a chance to grab a bit of fame.
October 9, 2016
Stred
More like local councillors who saw a chance to grab a bit of fame.
Very much like the MP’s we now have in the SNP then.
October 8, 2016
@graham1946; Your last paragraph, I think you are mixing up cause and effect, of course perhaps you know more about this, are you trying to suggest that Mr Wolfe recent ‘blackouts’ had nothing to do with the alleged altercation – if so, a history of previous blackouts might well rule him out but not otherwise.
October 9, 2016
No, I’m not. If this was, as reported just a scuffle, then he should not have required several days in hospital and be transferred to a neurological unit.
You do not need previous history for this to be serious. A fit young boxer died only last week after a fight. Do you know about these things and can give a definite prognosis, which seems to be more than the medics can do?
October 9, 2016
@graham1946; I’m not trying to suggest anything, other than what media reports tell us, some of which come from the people involved, unlike your good self. I’m sure that Mr Wolf, like Mr Farage before him (after his plan crash in 2010), will take medical advice on his prognosis and his work/health balance, and as he has now been discharged from Hospital it suggest good news.
October 10, 2016
Well, an episode like that means an instant 6 month ban from driving when the doctor reports it to the DVLA as he is bound to do. I had a friend who had an ‘incident’ and it took him a long time and a lot of to-ing and fro-ing to hospital specialists before his licence was reinstated. I’d be very surprised if Mr. Wolfe was advised other than to take things easy for a good while. We’ll see what happens. If he’s well enough then good luck to him. I’m not against him, just concerned. Anyway, Jerry, never mind facts and common sense, they’ve never bothered you before
October 10, 2016
@graham1946; What is not common sense about stating that Mr Wolf should take the advice of his doctors and specialists, you on the other hand are behaving as if you have the lead roll in a Mothers Union production of Dr Finley’s case book!
October 8, 2016
Afraid UKIP is falling apart because of its success, it has got fast growing pains.
Whilst it has some very able people, there are not enough people of substance and quality within the party, and it has a rather dysfunctional management system given its now vastly increased size.
When you get rapid success in anything (and 4,000,000 votes) is a success, members/teams/organisations, can get carried away in all of the excitement and lose some sense of reality, forgetting the basic principles which got them there.
Farage has been a fantastic leader for them in gaining public support, because he was so different to all other Party leaders with his plain, straight and simple no nonsense talking, and his ability and willingness to answer any questions put to him.
Clearly he is a marmite politician and would never appeal to everyone, but who would or would want to be.
Can they now need to get their act together and challenge the so called establishment Parties on a whole range of topics.?
I hope they do and can, because Labour and the LibDems are at the moment completely out of touch with reality with any sort of sensible policies.
Yes the Conservative Party did give us a referendum John, and thank you for you and your colleagues efforts in this regard, but your leader only gave us a referendum because he feared UKIPs surge in popularity would hurt him and your Party badly at the polling stations.
Indeed he feared Farage to such an extent that he would never have gone head-head in a debate with him.
Certainly I agree UKIP at the moment look like a bit of a joke with the recent fiasco over their leadership problems, but then all political Parties have their weird moments, just look at the present Labour contest/revolt, the recent LibDem contest, indeed the Conservatives were not much better given the Boris, Gove and Leadsom farce.
I also remember a certain Mr Heseltine swinging the mace around in the House of Commons, hardly acceptable behaviour.
October 11, 2016
@Alan Jutson
A fair and balanced assessment there Mr J.
I dare say that ukip’s internal disagreements will be resolved after the EGM and once we have a new leader we can then get back to keeping the Tories from backsliding if Mrs May turns out to be as good as Mr Cameron when it comes to keeping promises.
I am perplexed at her choice of Chancellor.
October 8, 2016
Ukip have achieved their main objective.
Their job was not to get us out of the EU but see to it that our people had the chance to do this for themselves. Mission accomplished.
The Tory party should be concerned that Ukip remain electable as they will draw Northern votes (that will never be Tory) away from Labour.
Their leader ? I don’t much care who is appointed though I do think Steve Woolfe is a formidable debater; he has useful racial and educational attributes – shame about the driving offence and the alleged punch-up, though John Prescott survived much more damaging issues and the Lib Dems are still regarded as respectable by the media despite terrible sex scandals.
Ukip shall remain my party of choice if the Tories fail to deliver on Brexit. I expect many people will feel the same.
If we Remain in the EU we don’t need a government so it will matter not one jot that Ukip has no leader and is not viable.
October 8, 2016
With the Labour and LibDums virtually a total nonentity with their totally antiquated policies which would never have gone down in the 1970’s let alone 2016 it is essential that the public have a party that is perceived by them to be capable of holding Government to account even though they have one elected member in the house. The power of the media is still very effective not yet resigned to be in second place by the social media.
This spate in the European Parliament over the process of time will find out what actually happened and then maybe things will become clearer. UKIP was always going to have a problem with having a leader like Nigel Farage especially with their failed political members who cannot commit themselves 150% to real beliefs of the grass roots of the party. All parties have their rogue elements and is good as long as you can control them.
Todays news is tomorrows history and like the SNP have proved it does not matter how corrupt some of their members seem to be over financial matters as long as they can say
” I did nothing wrong” then within days it is all forgotten.
UKIP are the only party having a energy policy about the changing the reliance on renewable energy which in reality is nothing but a cash cow for those fortunate enough to be in a position to take advantage of the totally unrealistic subsidies paid. Here in dictatorship Scotland it is having a serious effect on the farming industry in that you now have two tier industry. Those with turbines and those with out, it is highlighted everyday
in the markets. Those with turbines should be given the choice. Subsidies for either a power station or a farm not both.
UKIP would repeal the Climate Change Act which would be the end of the Climate Change Levy which is creating millions in fuel debt and poverty and disastrous for industry in trying to remain competitive. Roger Helmer MEP is very knowledgeable and it is a pity that the Government cannot put someone like him in charge of energy, it is not as if they do not have enough politicians who have similar experience.
The UKIP party as is will sort itself out as all parties do and until all the candidates have their application accepted it is maybe too early to think about the possible replacement for Nigel Farage. One thing is for sure that UKIP will not go away, even out of Westminster they can bring pressure to bear on our elected politicians. Those elected with UKIP in second place will always have to be looking over their shoulder,if they do not, they do it at their peril That threat alone should be driving Mrs May to JFDI and get us out. The perception of a lot of us is that the cabinet needs beefing up in some key/critical positions
to enable business as usual whilst accelerating the exit process. The longer we take the more difficult we make it for ourselves as the EU members line up to make things as difficult as possible, sad to say, ably supported by all the UK remoaners who lack vision and belief
October 8, 2016
UKIP & Nigel Farage saw the abuse of GB money in EU and listened to the ‘ neglected’ millions in GB,abandoned by a sneering so called ‘ intellectual ‘ Labour elite & a coalition govt. assuming they are in Labour councils so why bother.
UKIP has united people from many sides who have genuine concerns on the impact of uncontrolled & rapid immigration & GB handing over more governance to EU: another wasteful bureacracy with some MPs having golden ticket’ jobs in EU, ignoring its many faults. Public are aware now of EU aims ( as they should be) & hopefully UKIP presence will continue to fight powerful pro EU lobby which does not have best interests of GB at heart.I am a Conservative voter: Cameron did honour pre election Ref. promise.
October 8, 2016
UKIP’s role should be to ensure Brexit is achieved and to do this they should target Labour seats in Northern England.
October 8, 2016
Roy Grainger; By 2020, the next GE, there will have been Brexit, “UKIP” will be as relevant as a ice cube in a sauna!
October 8, 2016
UKIP to me is the party for angry, disaffected voters, the UKIP voters I know were previous Labour voters who just don’t connect with posh socialist MPs in their constituency and don’t agree with them either.
The Conservatives should just deliver on their manifesto, not slide off on some wild grammar school distraction when there is so much important work to do, by all means start to make a case for Grammar schools in your next manifesto, even propose where you will put these grammar schools, if they are in the poorest most underperforming school towns I might even support it to see if it makes the change the academy hasn’t delivered but if you put them in your Conservative high house priced Boroughs to cream off the best children locally or those who can afford to get parents to drive them in and increase your house prices I will use my vote another way. As long as you’re not trying to reduce the private education costs of mainstream Conservative voters by turning some private schools into public funded grammar schools with the same pupils then getting free but selective education! Which is nothing at all to do with improving the lot of the bright working class and more about which church you go and which gp will sign your less intelligent child off with dyslexia so they can get in.
Who can blame Diane, leading UKIP must be like putting your hand in a hornets nest every morning, she’s been spat on, why isn’t this seen and recorded as assault? The leader of UKIP needs to walk around with a cycling camera on them at all times !!! I was hoping a female leader would calm things down in this party but it was a bit like removing a strong leader without another strong person to take over.
October 11, 2016
@a-tracy
being spat at is obviously not as high on the Mets priorities list as say, having your pink beret nicked while protesting against Brexit.
October 8, 2016
Raheem Kassam would be a risky choice but could lead UKIP in a tea party direction willing to be be frank about potential problems with …….. immigration and opening up the debate on alternatives to the NHS, strong promotion of the nuclear family and a proposed referendum on continuing the BBC license fee.
I sense a change in the air against the current ultra pc/feminist/race obsessed culture and UKIP could catch an early wind here. More people are getting their news online where they are getting ‘real talk’ on these sensitive subjects and I suspect the influence of the alt right will continue to grow.
October 8, 2016
PS: I have been a Conservative voter, but I am very concerned that govt, is ignoring Lancashire council over fracking. GB land mass is too small for fracking or methane gas drilling. I am in a ‘ potential ‘ fracking methane area and it is no coincidence that our water supply has had constant ‘ breaks & repair work & poor quality during the period of test drilling. Encourage solar panels & tidal lagoon investment : we are an island & the sea a priceless, constant resource. Fracking & methane could well be the present govt’s poll tax undoing: please, please think again?
October 8, 2016
@ Janice Birch
Encourage solar panels & tidal lagoon investment
You are backing the wrong horse, fracking has got to happen.
The investment will only be there for the subsidies that are made available from the Climate Change Levy and they in turn are responsible for the millions in fuel debt and poverty and the unnecessary burden placed upon industry.
Scotland has been trashed with turbines and when you see the grid outputs for what in reality for very little return at the cost of billions.
October 8, 2016
It appears that UKIP is divided into 2 factions. There is the free market libertarian capitalism espoused by the likes of Carswell, Hamilton and Ethridge which is what I believe in. The other is to turn the party into a mark II BNP. I feel with regret that it is the latter’s appeal led to the working class voter to vote for Brexit.
Amber Rudd, who like her 3 predecessors was a disastrous energy secretary. Now she is playing to the crowd and harassing employers to give a breakdown on their employees’ nationality. More waste of public money. The woman is a disgrace.
October 8, 2016
She is indeed but what sort of fool would select an rather dopey Edinburgh historian to run energy? Especially when Peter Lilley was around. Cameron it was off course & he even sacked the excellent Owen Patterson to appease ‘the green blob’ too.
October 9, 2016
Labour, the coalition and now Rudd and May have been disastrous for energy policy. They appear to be incapable of understanding the sums involved. We are about to make things even worse and the costs of their ignorance will be arriving soon on the bills. I changed supplier recently to one which can read my smart meter, as those fitted so far cannot be read by most others. Billions wasted and to go on the bill. They offered me a special package, ‘free’ for the over 60s, where I can have a meter reader every 3 months and if anyone has electrical medical or aid equipment they will reconnect me more quickly- or less slowly- in the event of an outage. They know what is coming!
UKIP has a blameless record and will benefit greatly when the folly of Mrs May and Corbyn becomes apparent.
October 8, 2016
I am not a UKIP member but have twice been a UKIP voter; I hope this means I qualify to comment.
UKIP’s role is about much more than keeping the government honest – many of their best ideas have been adopted by May’s government. I am always surprised when people suggest there is no role for UKIP now we have voted to leave the EU – UKIP have long held a vision of the UK outside of the EU and they will have a role in helping realise this vision. Whatever people may think of Suzanne Evans’ and her loyalty, she did do an excellent job of writing the party’s 2015 manifesto (downloadable as pdf from here: http://www.ukip.org/manifesto2015).
Suggesting policy has to be part of UKIP’s role – what would be the point of the party if they had no intention of increasing their number of MPs and dreaming of government? They have a stance on the NHS (free at the point of delivery, return to nurse training on the wards), taxation (which, from memory, is for a high personal allowance then 20% across the board thus making evasion pointless and incentivising higher earnings and increasing tax-take); you know their views on grammar schools.. and back in the day when the BBC would broadcast the UKIP conference speeches I saw a well-researched and interesting talk about fisheries.
They will have to get their act together as a party though if they are to have any credibility. Steven Woolfe is still the obvious leader to me, Neil Hamilton needs to be booted out and Nathan Gill should resume his rightful place. I’m not sure about Lisa Duffy, but Mike Hookem can stay as far as I’m concerned; and I’m not at all sure about Carswell.
October 8, 2016
There’s much more to this than meets the eye. There are even parallels with Cromwell – but once he’d done what was needed, he was laid aside. Mercifully, the dynamics of the Reformation are still at work – just about. If you want evidence of that, just look at our current Monarch – 90, and still actively involved, God bless her! And just for interest, compare and contrast the American political scene. There’s much to love there too, but you can see what you get when the wise safety rails of state are removed!
October 8, 2016
By and large UKIP has done its job and achieved its main goal ; Farage was the only leader of credibility but , like many leaders , failed to breed a successor . As it stands the Conservatives have a clear run ; Labour is in a mess and is unlikely to get its act together for some considerable time ; the LibDems have obliterated themselves . Providing a credible leader can emerge , UKIP does have a role to play by keeping the Conservatives from swinging too far to the Left . Theresa has made many statements indicating a ” Pink ” new beginning and may fail to see the wisdom of its eurosceptic element . UKIP can still be very useful .
October 8, 2016
Who should lead UKIP? I favour Steven Woolfe, and hope he has no long-term health issues that might affect his ability to lead. Otherwise Mr Redwood, thank you for the invitation. I’ll try to be brief… I always tell people that you are among the few Conservative MPs I respect for their ideology, experience, real-world expertise, and straight talking. The only exception to the latter is that you have a blind spot with UKIP: you decry its significance and in essence say it should not exist and that those attracted to it really should vote Conservative.
I voted Conservative since I was old enough to do so (early 1970s) until the mid-1990s. I was enthusiastic about Margaret Thatcher’s leadership, without classing her along with Mother Theresa as some do – she had leadership, conviction, courage, patriotism, and other qualities that set her among the best PMs (IMO) of the 20thC.
Not even she, however, managed to do more than act stroppily toward the EU, which after around 65% of us who voted in 1975’s referendum to remain, we came quickly to realise was not just the trading bloc we had imagined it to be.
I suggest strongly that you are optimistic in believing Conservative MPs to be responsible for our latest referendum: if pressure was brought to bear on Cameron in these private meetings you mention, it was largely because UKIP had brought the issue to such prominence, and represented such electoral significance (not to mention attracting many former Conservatives…) that even the majority of Conservative MPs who had been complacent & indolent about the EU – unlike yourself, though I say nothing of Mr Cash, who made a tidy career out of “EU-scepticism” without achieving much – realised they had to stop equivocating and concede the public desire for a referendum – a desire instilled largely by UKIP…
Why am I continuing to support UKIP? Despite the farcical aspects of their infighting, the Party still represents far more of the qualities I listed above as belonging to Margaret Thatcher. I draw your attention to Charles Moore’s words in today’s Telegraph about Mrs May’s vision of Conservatism: I think he’s on the money. For the moment I am happier with May at the helm than I ever was with Cameron, a man I distrusted from the start; but it really will take a lot to persuade me that the Conservative Party has the grit and the ideas to rule our country in the way I think it ought to be run: with a smaller State, lower taxes, a proven commitment to very firm control of our borders & immigration, sound defences, a degree of State intervention where necessary such as transport infrastructure but otherwise firmly committed to free market principles, staying out of wars in distant places that should not concern us… That sort of thing.
October 8, 2016
Mrs May seems to want more government and regulation if I read reports on her speeches correctly. This gives UKIP a chance to move into a ‘less regulation’ position. It could keep the name and work for greater personal independence from the state.
October 8, 2016
Not a UKIP’er.
But if our kind host wishes to pose a question as the that parties future, I csn only reply – to formulte Conservative and government policy.
October 8, 2016
Ukip is absolutely essential. In the short term it’s main purpose is to ensure the UK achieves the Brexit which people voted for. At the same time it needs a strong ‘post Brexit Britain’ manifesto for elections, continuing an outspoken non-PC theme and also looking at Islamification of Britain. I am extremely worried that Theresa May’s strong rhetoric will be quickly watered down as she faces opposition from the EU and other interests. It has already started. Philip Hammond is now saying he wants to compromise on immigration controls. Also, opposition is needed to put pressure on to address the appalling illegal immigration figures. Theresa May presided over a complete disaster as Home Secretary – one reason why I don’t trust her. UKIP leader? At moment Raheem Kassam.
October 8, 2016
Nigel Farage correctly pointed out that he (and UKIP) destroyed the far right (BNP) in the UK. The success of UKIP will destroy UKIP. Also, it is obvious that Theresa May is pushing ahead with Brexit and trying to defend the interests of the poor and powerless in the country. If sincere and successful; this will destroy UKIP.
October 8, 2016
I didn’t become a member of UKIP because I wanted UKIP. I did so because I wanted our government to stand up to the EU.
October 8, 2016
For those of us who wanted Brexit we can only be very thankful to UKIP for the effort it made to make it a reality. I do believe that without it’s input and it’s strength the referendum would not have happened or the result it gained.
UKIP for leavers at least was a force for good. Where it’s future lies is difficult to see. Even UKIP does not appear to know as the infighting and divisions within the party attests. In the short term as a leaver I want the party to get it’s act together until at least the Brexit process has been completed. They can ensure that our new relationship with the EU is not going to be EU light as many not so committed to Brexit or europhiles would have it so.
After that could they replace Labour who for now seem to be in an even worse situation than UKIP? They have shown they can attract substantial Labour voters support (not members of course) albeit on a single issue policy. If they can instil party discipline and announce a manifesto that attracts centre left voters then it is possible. An area vacated by Labour which Theresa May proceeded by George Osborne is already making attempts to occupy which I have no argument with as long as Conservative core values are not jettisoned in the process. Who gets their first is the key to UKIP’s future and as UKIP are not even out of the staring box they will need to do some soon and be united and efficient to catch up. It would help UKIP’s chances if the right of the party defected en mass to the Conservatives.
October 8, 2016
There is still much to do.
The Conservatives still contain a large Left wing block. I think Philip Hammond would be more at home in the Labour Party.
Brexit talks have not even begun.
I think Paul Nuttall is the best person to lead UKIP.
Q What does it believe in?
A. Traditional Conservative Party values
If the Conservatives can become Conservatives again we wouldn’t need UKIP.
October 8, 2016
One question must be if they pitch for the labour working class vote and risk losing some of the ex-tory vote back to the Tories, or the reverse.
The binding glue of Brexit above all other considerations is probably no longer there, now the contradiction of the above choice may appear. Similar in a way to the Lib Dems when they had to make a choice (and not pretend to be both anti Tory and anti labour depending on the constituency) and be in government?
October 8, 2016
There is an element of schadenfreude in this post, however, it is well to remember that the Tory Party had some difficulty coming up with a credible leader between 1997 and 2006 and then elected an individual whose proudest claim was that he was the ‘Heir to Blair’, thus following Blair’s excursions into Afghanistan and Iraq with his own into Libya and an attempt to bounce us into Syria based on a falsehood about its use of poison gas. The whole of Europe is now beset by the problems this odious individual set in train.
CMD was a recruiting sargeant for UKIP as he was neither a Conservative nor a patriot and many of his policies and beliefs were anathema to Englishmen as he presided over the highest ever levels of imigration to this country, most of which was damaging and destabilising.
Whether Mrs May can follow through with those (UKIP) policies she showcased at the Conference remains to be seen.
October 8, 2016
The Tory party was buried by John Major’s incompetence over the ERM for 3+ terms.
Major only got in as he was seen as Thatchers choice then they sussed him. Apart from Thatcher they Tories have not had a sensible leader in my lifetime and do not have one now.
October 8, 2016
Go for it John. Your beliefs tie in almost perfectly with UKIP anyway. Maybe then us, your constituents, can vote for someone who represents them in parliament instead of spouting endlessly naive statements about how easy brexit is.
October 8, 2016
When the Ecology Party was founded in the 1970s it at once became apparent that the conservatives and socialists would not be able to agree. The socialists won control and have kept it ever since, to the extent that the present leader has never once mentioned population and advocates unlimited mass immigration on the ground that we are a rich country and can afford to take everyone in who wants to come.
The UKIP don’t seem to have resolved their differences and it is not clear what exactly they are. The country needs an official opposition and it would obviously be better if it were UKIP than Labour, so I wish they could unite behind a strong leader and press forward to taking all those Labour seats. They did well in Hartlepool on Thursday and now have six seats there. Typical MSM not to mention that: it ran counter to their propaganda.
October 8, 2016
It was Ukip and Boris that won the Referendum. Great. What a start (when apparently Boris didn’t really want to win at all). (And when many/most people voted to leave were really voting against immigration from the EU not against the EU, itself, or sovereignty or the economy).
Btw, which is worse: the back-stabbing within the Conservative Leave camp after the referendum result or the punch-up between those Ukip a few days ago? In my mind, the back-stabbing. And it doesn’t say much about a clear, coherent, Brexit vision for the future either.
October 8, 2016
ED Mahony (And when many/most people voted to leave were really voting against immigration from the EU not against the EU, itself, or sovereignty or the economy).
I think you’ll find that many people voted against the EU on grounds of loss of sovereignty, the economy, human rights laws which flew in the face of sanity, threat of a European army, collusion on taxes etc etc. The list is endless. It was and is not just about immigration although saying that, immigration affects everything I have spoken about here. Quite simply, we want our country back lock stock and barrel. No further interference from the EU.
October 8, 2016
I agree with you fedupsoutherner. In earlier times I was a ‘fedupnortherner’ !
October 9, 2016
I respect your views.
I think the UK is the best country in the world, but i like Europe as well. And personally, i think in the world we live in today, we need close partners (in terms of economy, security, science and education, preventing immigration from outside Europe and having a common policy towards probs from N Africa, M.E. and Russia), big projects such as space travel and building planes and so on) in particular those on our doorsteps and who we have so much in common with compared to other countries further afield. Also, it’s an opportunity to get on with other countries in Europe instead of fighting with them: WW2, WW1, etc and to prevent Communists and Nazis ever getting a foothold again.
However, i think the EU is in strong need of reform, in particular over immigration.
Regards.
October 9, 2016
Ed……preventing immigration from outside Europe…..
Euclid – Things equal to the same are equal to each other. Ergo, with freedom of movement, Merkel’s immigration into Germany is immigration into the UK and vice versa. QED.
As we have seen over many years the chances of reform in the EU vary between negligible and non-existent.
October 11, 2016
@Ed Mahony
Me too, and I think it would be better off without the EU.
October 8, 2016
Dear Ed Mahony
We were an independent country for a thousand years and we wanted to be again.
Not being independent landed us with a whole lot of problems, including out of control mass immigration, but the main thing we were getting shot of was foreign rule.
October 8, 2016
We are still in the EU!
Actions or inaction will cause a further political re-actions.
UKIP’s goal has not been actioned.
I would like to see UKIP settle, re-assess & re-organise, to target those area’s and weather vane MP’s who were disingenous, lets say on their ongoing Brexit stance. Particularly where the arithmetic works.
Simplicity and speed must be pursued. We need to reduce uncertainty by exiting much earlier and faster.
The inaction problem is ours. The EU will decide with actions soon afterwards.
We should therefore be asserting our sovereignty, irrespective of the EU and start direct negotiations with friendly states. Parliament can find a way to approve this if it chooses.
Pressure must be applied to courts to speed the legal process. The executive should be applying immense pressure to this end, by passing legislation if needed.
October 8, 2016
As a UKIP member, I see the purpose of the party now to be twofold. Firstly, to ensure that the government does not renege on its promises regarding Brexit – or should we now call it Brennaissance? – and secondly to deliver on our comprehensive national manifesto.
I am horrified by the behaviour of Hookem and Woolfe this week and am pressing for both to be expelled from the Party immediately. I am retaining my membership at present so that I can at least vote in the leadership election, but should Woolfe be elected, I shall immediately resign from the Party as I can have no respect at all for a bar room brawler. Whether or not he started it is immaterial, he should have avoided it.
Although I am generally strongly opposed to tactical voting, I will vote for whoever seems to have the best chance of defeating him.
October 8, 2016
But we don’t know it was a bar room brawl.
October 8, 2016
Theresa May was a lukewarm supporter of Remain. She is my local MP, and I have said in the past that I thought she was one of the many Tory MPs who could perhaps swing the other way if that was how the wind was blowing. In May 2006 when the party whips told her to vote in favour of a Bill Cash amendment which would have allowed ministers to nullify EU laws she did as she was told and voted that way, later when she was told not to vote in favour of the legal supremacy of our national Parliament she did as she was told and voted that way. She has in the past as an MP repeatedly kept to the current Tory party line and claimed that overall the UK benefited from being in the EU, and as Home Secretary she decided to keep the UK in the EU Arrest Warrant system notwithstanding the potential harm it could do to any of her innocent constituents. So the question must be whether she has undergone a genuine and permanent change of attitude in the light of the referendum or she will relapse as she comes under increasing pressure. She could relieve some of that pressure by mobilising the government propaganda apparatus to more effectively rebut the claims of the diehard Remainers rather than just letting them get away with their false propaganda day after day, but in any case we need UKIP to be able to apply pressure to prevent any partial or complete relapse. However when one looks at the absurd conduct of those at the top of the party one could easily despair, and perhaps wonder to what extent it is still infiltrated by its opponents.
Reply If you wish to remain as a Minister you always have to vote the party line!
October 9, 2016
Interesting points!
Two observations:
1. It is depressing how many conservatives tolerated the EU as it developed because it was good for us economically without a thought for the other national values it was destroying.
2. It is even more distressing how fundamentally dishonest most MPs have proved to be – they could clearly see the lies, deceit, the graft etc and even if they did not take part personally in such dishonesty, they just ignored it or excused it with a series of platitudes to satisfy their own career objectives (or through laziness.)
October 8, 2016
I voted UKIP last few times as some Conservatives weren’t in tune with the electorate. We are out of the EU ( nearly) and Theresa May is doing ok, so I dont feel the need to vote UKIP again.
I went to a local UKIP meeting, first ever political meeting for me, where a UKIP MEP spoke interestingly about the EAW. The rest of it was fairly grim.
Theresa May isn’t an orator as is Farage, but she has a lot of good, experienced minds behind her to feed her the right words whereas UKIP had the orator without the back up.
October 8, 2016
I voted UKIP as you know last time.
For me I hope they stay around for a number of reasons
1 To make sure Brexit happens, and that we don’t get a rubbish deal, shout loudly if not
2 To push to reduce immigration, I am not happy with a number of aspects of their immigration policy either but at least they seem to genuinely want to cut the numbers
3 To represent some of the large working class areas which the Labour party has let down massively
And to provide some real opposition given the nonsense coming out of Labour, the SNP, and Lib Dems
Who should be leader, I don’t know, I would hope they have multiple candidates. I wouldn’t want to see anyone who has recently considered jumping ship to another party though.
Still amazes me none of the big parties can get around some obvious policies which would win landslides and which they all seem to miss. Why is the bleeding obvious so hard in the political bubble?
October 8, 2016
“Why is the bleeding obvious so hard in the political bubble?”
I think Nigel F calls it group think.
October 8, 2016
I’m a UKIP member. I don’t know who I want, but I do know what I want. I want a socially conservative leader who can unite the country in Britain’s interests, force a realignment of British politics away from “left” v. “right” tribalism, and take a stand against the threat posed by Islam. In the near term I want a leader who can take the opportunity available for UKIP in Labour voting parts of the as north of England, places like my home town and constituency.
In all of this, I am assuming a leader who will help deliver Brexit, proper, Redwood-style Brexit, yesterday.
October 8, 2016
So far, reading all the comments here I would ascertain that most people voted or took an interest in UKIP because of their true conservative values. The Conservative party is not conservative enough any more for most of us and fringes too much on leftist policies instead of sticking to fundamental issues which serve the UK best. Too many loons have been allowed to influence decisions to the detriment of us all.
October 8, 2016
Strewth! Still early afternoon yet half the UKIP membership (six of one and half a dozen of the other ) have made a comment.
Well you have tolerated and in a number of cases propagated a terrible inner party “democracy” from top right down and including branch level where you believe 3 or 4 people stuck at the front of meetings should sabotage everyone else’s local election campaigns via inadequate leafleting or making sure certain persons never reach officer level in branches and at Region.
Your membership level and team commitment is therefore a damp squib and no-way your MEPs will after being in Brussels lower themselves to stand as local Councillors. They’d never get elected anyway. So it’s Good Bye from them and Good Bye from you. Hard Cheese!
October 8, 2016
The pity of small parties is their leaderships try to weld themselves at the top. Persons underneath them wish their own advancement. Without sufficient electoral successes there are not enough authoritative positions available to meet the human need for recognition and authority. But the top of UKIP sacrificed their foot soldiers rather early on. They shut them up by deceit and then rules. Stopping possible embarrassments and legal implications of individual leafleteers and campaigners. This was set in stone just as soon as the prospective MEPs “got the foremans’s job ” to coin an old Labour Party/Trade Union chant.
The “rank and file” became a few local functionaries who made little deals with in-power local mainstream parties.
Take the MEPs off Question Time as will happen after we leave the EU and then UKIP will sink. The more it sinks, the more the local functionaries will hold on and continue to backstab, to grasp on to whatever pathetic authority they experience. It is a form of self-abuse.
So UKIPPERS can try to rejoin parties they left where if successful they will be taunted.
It is doubtful they will be accepted by the so-named “far right parties” such as the British National Party ( BNP ) as it is not actually on the “right” of politics. It advocates nationalisation for example and an end to military intervention in what it terms muslim countries.
UKIP’s last 18-day leader said she admired Margaret Thatcher as did Mr Farage. Whatever Mrs T’s achievements she did not impress universally for those UKIP may wish to entice.
Generally, Mrs May’s call to arms: “Forward the Working Class!” is the appropriate direction of travel in the UK at the moment. This leaves Corbynistas and Ukippers floundering in iffy rubber boats.
October 8, 2016
I am old enough to remember when there were 51? Tory (Conservative and Unionist) MPs in Scotland – probably about half the BREXIT voters in Scotland were SNP voters! Canvassing during the Scottish referendum showed that outside the industrial areas, many SNP voters are often middle of the road conservatives who won’t vote Labour or Tory.
I suspect the same is true across UK – many ordinary white working class and lower middle class voters are basically conservative, and possibly even a bit right of centre but will never vote Tory again – no matter how much liberal/ socialist nonsense is preached at them by One Nation Conservatives from the Bubble.
However they might (and do) vote for UKIP because they feel their values are understood and that their interests are being heeded by people who understand their lives and speak /look like them.
Labour has the same problem – if you promote union leaders and other ranks, they tend to continue to behave like union leaders and other ranks. Tories usually have a slightly different problem – if you promote people who are not intrinsically decent, upright and honest, they quickly get greedy and corrupt and that applies to the champagne socialists too.
It seems to me that a wise Conservative leader could work out a strategy to recapture the traditional small (c)onservatives using UKIP – I am not going to do it for her.
As for the fighting in the EU Parliament, it has always been thus when tempers get heated! Devlin struck Maudling in the Commons and we all know why there are lines on the floor of the House – pity they don’t carry swords any longer – there would be more by-elections!
October 8, 2016
Sorry John. It was UKIP that got us the referendum through their growing popularity. Tory eurosceptic MPs thankfully managed to jump on that bandwagon. I am certain that compromise over sovereignty is on the way. With that in mind the answer to your question is that a strong UKIP will be need again soon and I suggest with farage at the helm.
October 8, 2016
I am not a member of UKIP, but I know what I would like from a party in their position.
Certain blogs (not this one) and Twitter accounts are leading me to believe that so-called “elitism” may not be an exclusively Remainiac phenomenon. That is, some prominent people in the Leave camp seem to think that they know why we all voted as we did and, in particular, that Nigel Farage had nothing to do with it. They are wrong. The Leave vote was not a vote of prominent people brandishing their superior economic theories. It was a vote of 17.5 million equal people. It was a vote to restore our democracy so that individuals can fight for their own interests in our own forums, and in our own language.
Within the parliamentary system, I would like UKIP to continue to represent that democratic drive against “the philosopher kings”.
October 8, 2016
UKIP have been fighting for over 20 years to expose the corruption, fraud, cost and hidden agendas of the EU, whilst most Conservatives just sat on their hands watching. Hannan was good but the rest? Useless. They were more concerned about loyalty to their party than our country and that is utterly shameful.
Right up to the start of the Referendum debate, countless Tory MPs were still too muddled to form an opinion and too gutless to express it.
And they are still split right down the middle on blindingly obvious decisions: 1) We must have control of our borders. 2) We must control immigration and 3) We must make our own laws on our own terms. And if that means some short term economic bumps, so be it.
UKIP most definitely still has a role, to keep pointing weak, wet Tories in the RIGHT direction, even though the signs are smacking them in the face.
October 8, 2016
Well done JR – you’ve managed to ‘out’ all the Ukippers on your blog.
Keep a list of them for future reference.
October 9, 2016
Yes, not a lot of ‘active’ Tories commenting, they’re still confused about whether we need borders or not. Meanwhile UKIP are clear about the dangers to Britain, perhaps because they don’t live in splendid isolation.
October 9, 2016
I do not have a view on who should lead Ukip but I do know and have long held the view that politics in UK and in several other Western countries has fundamental problems. The old labels of ‘Left’ and Right’ no longer reflect reality. The real divide is now between the governing elite and the rest. The elite is ‘extractive’ in the sense of putting its interests above those of the rest and above those of the nation as a whole. That is one source of support for Ukip and for Brexit, since the governing elite is becoming increasingly globalist. The elite can escape the mal-effects of global trends in ways the rest cannot. This same ability to ignore the plebs, the voters, other than bread circus vote-buying, also appeals to pressure groups from any section of politics. Hence the ragbag of greens, environmentalists, human rights campaigners, no borders activists, black lives matter brigades, etc etc. see that they can bypass democratic accountability by appealing directly to the elites, particularly those in the united Nations and the EU, the latter being particularly attractive as an executive unaccountable law-making body.
So plebs vs newly self-serving and globalising elite is one axis of division. The other appeal of Ukip is simply that it was the only party advocating Brexit.
These two threads join in the idea of democracy which can only work effectively at the level of the nation state. It cannot work supra-nationally.
Therefore UK needs a party that stands for democratic national sovereignty. The Conservative party thinks it does but its governments fail to put this into practice. Mrs May is an administrator or manager. She does not have a clear vision of Britain in the world, although she has some ideas of what Britain should be like on the inside. She is thus likely to manage a transition of Britain from full membership of the EU into some new form of associate or partial membership, an administrative compromise. Indeed that is exactly what the evidence given by David Davis to the Parliamentary Committees on the EU and on Foreign Affairs indicates.
So whatever Ukip does – UK itself desperately needs a party that adopts sovereign national democracy as its primary goal and foundational policy. The Conservative Party does not. The Labour Party does not. The Lib Dems do not.
October 11, 2016
I agree.
October 9, 2016
I am a floating voter with no direct interest in any party, though I have voted for many, in my time. I will simply vote for the best option I see, whether it be for local or national issues.
I would like to see a number of strong and healthy parties in UK politics, as I believe having genuine competing visions is essential for a healthy democracy. At absolute minimum we need two parties who are capable of governing, and right now we have only one, which is a bad thing.
The current void where a decent Opposition should be is, nonetheless, a terrific opportunity for UKIP. If they can take it! So far as I see, UKIP has two main problems it needs to solve, neither of which will be easy:
1. UKIP is at heart an alliance of very disparate individuals whose single over-riding concern is to free the UK from the EU. While they have produced a number of other excellent policies (Many of which the Tories seem to have adopted under Theresa May), without the one issue that most held them united, all those cracks that were minor disagreements as long as all could agree on a main objective are now bound to come to the fore. This will probably lead to a lot of people leaving and a huge vote loss, at least in the short term.
If UKIP is to thrive in the future, it needs a new guiding vision to replace the old. This cannot be ‘To Become The Opposition’ but must be founded in a genuine principle or goal that the British people might relate to.
2. Replacing Nigel Farage as leader. Love him or hate him, Farage is a political giant who has helped transform Britain. He is one of Britain’s best known and most recognised politicians; highly charismatic and with superb oratorical skills. Someone like that is always incredibly hard to replace. He is, quite literally, the face of UKIP and the new leader will have to become as well known if they are to succeed.
Moreover, Farage has retired after being one of the most successful leaders in British political history. He turned what was seen as a crank group into a pressure group that helped change the face of Britain. He is one of a small handful of people without whom Brexit would never have happened; indeed, without whom the idea would probably never have made the mainstream political agenda.
(I’m sorry, John, but with no desire for it in the country, a referendum seems very unlikely to have occurred, however many Tory MPs argued for it; and if it did it would have been lost. It was Farage & UKIP who created the climate in the country in which the referendum could happen and could be won. This is not in any way to disparage the hard work of the many MPs who fought to get and then win the referendum. I doubt it could have been won without them)
Following Farage as leader will be incredibly hard task, whoever takes it on.
UKIP do, however, have one great advantage that, if they can seize it, could lead them on to great success: the current state of the Labour party, whose old heartlands in the North of England must surely be up for grabs. The ‘Islington Dinner Party Party’ currently running Labour is about as likely to appeal to the North as they would to die-hard Tory voters. With the Lib Dems showing no serious signs of a resurgence, and the Tories roundly hated in much of the North, UKIP could seem like an extremely attractive alternative. It’s certainly the best chance they are ever likely to get to start building a strong parliamentary party. Whether they can seize it or not, only time will tell.
October 9, 2016
UKIP is needed to take over the government at the next election if the Tories fail to get us out of the EU.
October 9, 2016
I read it as him wanting to understand why people voted UKIP in order that the Conservatives can draw them back.
October 9, 2016
I consider that our role now is to represent ordinary working class voters, many of whom will never vote Conservative for historical reasons. We must offer them a common-sense alternative to the extreme left-wing policies on offer from the champagne socialists who have taken over Labour.
Desite the recent fracas, I don’t think there is anyone better than Steven Woolfe to do that. He is a great debater; makes a good speech (check out his speech at Conference in October, it’s on YouTube) and has a back-story that will kill off for good the continual smears the media and establishment parties levy at us.
Susanne Evans is not liked by the party membership because of her disloyalty to Nigel. Neither is Carswell. In my opinion the only other potential leader would be Paul Nuttall, but I think Woolfe is better, and anyway, Paul ruled himself out.
UKIP won a Council by-election in Hartlepool on Thursday, with 49.2% of the vote. The Labour vote dropped by 17% and the Conservative by 14%. There is definitely a role for us – we just need to stop the infighting, rally around the new Leader and, if necessary, eject the continual trouble-makers.
October 10, 2016
UKIP is useful as a goad to keep the Conservative Party honest on Europe and to reform the Labour Party by dumping on many of its MPs in the Midlands and the North.
The situation where 52% of the voters chose Leave but 75% of MPs chose Remain cannot be allowed to continue. There must be a cleansing of the Augean Stables.
October 11, 2016
@Lindsay McDougall
Conveniently, the Houses of Parliament are adjacent to the Thames.
October 11, 2016
As a member, my view is UKIPs bitter factional infighting is destroying the party and badly letting its supporters down. A quick view of twitter lays bare the bile, vitriol and hatred from some in positions of power. Woolfe had great support but has clearly blown his credibility. Personally i would like UKIP to take a step to the centre in order to accomodate ex labour voters. I didn’t vote in the recent leader election as none of the candidates appeared particularly viable. Not many of the big names seem to want to put their names in the hat for leader. Perhaps because they are not stupid. Its a poisoned chalice, as Diane James found out when she was spat at and abused on a train. A UKIP leader needs to be extremely hard-headed in my opinion and able to take on all-comers. I dont want Tory Lite thankyou. No red, no blue, just purple through and through. The members and campaigners gave absolutely everything to get the referendum win. The UKIP ‘elite’ need to start working on behalf of them. Now please.