The polls and the debate show the election has come down to a simple choice. Do you want a Conservative government, or a coalition led by Jeremy Corbyn seeking to implement much of the Labour Manifesto with help from the Greens, Liberal Democrats, SNP, Welsh Nationalists and other parties who share some of Labour’s policy agenda? Polls may be wrong, and people may change their minds in the last couple of days, but any other outcome in terms of likely government looks remote.
Both front running parties accept the verdict of the people in the referendum and will get on with implementing Brexit. Both accept we cannot belong to the single market and customs union given the stance of the rest of the EU and the need for the UK to open up many positive new trade relationships with countries outside the EU. Both parties want the best possible access to the EU market and accept we need to offer similar privileged access to our market to secure it. Both parties want to reassure all EU citizens living in the UK and all UK citizens living in the EU that they are free to stay. Both accept that there are various collaborations, joint policies and working arrangements that we wish to continue with the EU.
The difference between the two is over how to secure these shared objectives. The Conservatives will not offer a legally binding guarantee to all EU citizens here until we have the same for our citizens in the EU. Labour favours the unilateral approach. The Conservatives say a bad deal is worse than no deal, and are prepared to walk away if only a bad deal is on offer. Labour is insistent on wanting a deal and has not been prepared to say it would walk away. The question is therefore a simple one. Which is the negotiating strategy more likely to succeed in securing a good deal for both the UK and the EU? Anyone with any experience of negotiating is likely to agree that the Conservative strategy gives the UK a strong hand. The Labour position gives us a weak hand. Why wouldn’t the rest of the EU decline to offer a sensible deal, expecting the UK under Mr Corbyn to pay almost any price to secure our very limited negotiating objectives about access to the market and security of people. These are things that they need to offer to secure the same for themselves, but they would of course try to extract a higher price from a weak negotiator.
Both major parties say they wish to keep the UK secure. Mr Corbyn has been required for the time being to accept the purchase of replacement submarines to keep the nuclear deterrent at sea as the Conservative government is doing. He however has undermined the whole point of the deterrent by refusing to state that he would ever use it in extreme circumstances. If dangerous enemies in the future think the deterrent would never be used we have no deterrent and we are wasting a lot of money on the weapons and subs. Mr Corbyn has a history of voting against measures designed to deal with terrorist attacks on the UK. The Prime Minister has made clear her wish to strengthen the UK’s defences against extremists who commit mass murder on our streets.
Mr Corbyn has a hugely expensive programme which he wishes to pay for by taxing companies and the rich more, and by borrowing a bit more. It is unlikely he would be able to collect the extra revenue he seeks from companies. The present government has been able to collect a lot more from companies by lowering the rate and making the UK a more attractive place for business to invest and employ people. A big rise in the tax rate might have the opposite effect. In the 1970s when Labour last tried high taxes on the rich and companies we had a brain drain and severe economic problems. Later Labour governments kept individual tax rates down below today’s level, whilst they faced less aggressive corporate tax competition than today from other countries.
So my conclusion is simple. If like me you want a Conservative government then you have to vote for one. A vote for any other party is a vote for a coalition led by Mr Corbyn. Such a coalition would do economic damage and be a weak negotiator with the EU.
Published and promoted by Fraser Mc Farland on behalf of John Redwood, both at 30 Rose Street Wokingham RG40 1 XU
June 6, 2017
JR I want a conservative government which will not be provided by the Conservative party aka Continuity New Labour. There is no assurance that we will receive competent government either. You failed on the immigration targets and on eliminating the deficit and still managed to double the national debt. While on the face of it Cameron has created another failed state in Libya. With the latest terrorist activity the Home Office does not know even if one of the perpetrators comes from Morocco or Libya? Its obvious certain members of the Labour front bench cannot be bothered to master their brief, however they cannot possibly do any more worse that what your lot have achieved since 2010.
June 6, 2017
The only party offering conservative policies are ukip.
As usual, it’s a bit like a Question Time panel, ukip versus the rest.
June 6, 2017
The road to economic salvation does involve banning a piece of cloth.
June 6, 2017
Do you think all these girls and women are genuinely free to choose not to wear these outfits, or do you think some are indoctrinated or intimided into it from birth onwards?
I cannot imagine many would choose to otherwise.
June 6, 2017
Out and about in Newcastle city centre at the weekend, I spotted plenty of young girls from muslim South Asian backgrounds as immodestly dressed, in my eyes , as any of the local white British girls. When as I go back and visit the in laws in Malaysia. Its always pointed out to me that ethnic Malay women do not have to wear the tudung (headscarf) if they do not want to and still be considered to be a good muslim. However anyone wearing a niqab or burka would get a visit from the religious police. The Malays, unlike ourselves, are not tolerant of fundamentalist Islam. Up to seven years detention without trial if you want to cause trouble.
June 6, 2017
whoever suggested that it did?
June 6, 2017
I had largely decided a few weeks back(before the social care fiasco and the two terrorist incidents)that,for the first time ever,I would not vote because of the desperately low quality of the available options-and I’m not talking about the local candidates.However,I too now intend to vote ukip;I think it’s important to keep the party alive as the Tories are totally unreliable.
If by chance Corbyn-or a Corbyn coalition-does win,the silver lining will hopefully be the implosion of the current Tory party and it’s replacement by something more authentic.It may not be bad news for Brexit either given that Corbyn’s economic plans are not compatible with EU membership.
June 6, 2017
@Bob; The only party offering conservative policies are ukip.”
That might explain why UKIP will feel it a good night if they keep their deposits – the country has moved on since the 1900…
June 7, 2017
That is easier explained by voters’ tribal associations than by policy Jerry.
June 7, 2017
@NS; Nonsense, votersā tribal associations are not as ridged as many believe, otherwise Thatcher would not won as she did between 1979 and 1987, Blair would not have won such a stomping majority in 1997, nor woudl UKIP have received those 4m votes it did in 2015!
Basically UKIP manifestos are at best seen in the same light as LibDem or Green manifestos, a populist wish-list a good 75% or more that could never be enacted even if they did find themselves around the Cabinet table, and people vote fort such parties as a protest.
June 7, 2017
I suggest the four million votes UKIP gained last time round gave Blair and Thatcher their landslides Jerry.
Most remain tribal and want to vote for the winner
June 6, 2017
I agree. As in 2015 the UKIP manifesto is the one that the Conservatives should have produced.
June 6, 2017
@Roger Parkin; Remind me how many MPs UKIP got elected on their 2015 manifesto, or the 2010, 2005, 2001 & 1997 ones for that matter?… UKIP = electoral dream-land, the Greens do better!
June 7, 2017
Once again Jerry more to do with voters’ tribal leanings and the wish to vote for the winner.
I do not advocate electoral reform but educating voters to place an X next to someone you agree with rather than a donkey with a rosette would be helpful.
June 6, 2017
Dame Rita, don’t you think they had no choice but to double the national debt whilst the British people won’t simply accept the need to cut our cloth and live within our means, you see it clearly this election with Corbyn’s money for nothin’ approach, everyone else but you will pay.
June 6, 2017
@a-tracy; Nonsense, we managed to borrow to invest in the 1950s when we had a far larger war debt to contend with.
June 6, 2017
JR has stated here in the past that a lot of that borrowed money has gone on benefits. What a super investment that has been to give people money for doing nothing.
June 7, 2017
@DRW; Nonsense, I was talking about the period 1945-1979, not 1979-2017.
June 6, 2017
Jerry
Quote from statistics website
UK national debt peaked in the late 1940s at over 230% of GDP. From the early 1950s to early 1990s, we see a consistent decrease in the debt to GDP ratio
June 7, 2017
@libertarian; Your point? I was talking about the 1950s, our debt was larger then than it has been since 2007. Why do you think that our debt peaked in the 1940s and started to reduce from the early 1950s unless we were paying it off, yet at the same time the governments of the day had massive renewal and new build programmes Heck, we even had our own space programme…
June 7, 2017
Jerry
The quote is specifically about the 1950’s if you look at the ONS data its pretty clear. If we were paying down massive debts, yet making huge investments yet as the data shows borrowing was down, where was the money coming from ?
June 7, 2017
I have looked at the ONS data, and I have cited it well before now on this site too, you are simply wrong. You ask were was the balance of the money come from -in one word- EXPORTS!
Sorry Walter but have you truly never heard of the post war export drive, central planks of both Lab and Con post war manifestos into the 1970s?
June 8, 2017
Jerry
One of the things I really love about you is that you are incredibly rude , aggressive, arrogant….. and WRONG
Heres a quote from LSE Economic History of 1950’s
The relative decline of the UK economy in the decades following the Second World War went hand in hand with the decline in its share of world exports and politically went hand in hand with the decline of the Empire. From an economic perspective it has been argued that the British Empire was counter- productive to the competitiveness of British exports because it offered āsoft marketsā in which political protection from foreign competitors could be offered to British exporters; at times this argument is extended to encompass the Sterling Area. Allied with weak competitive pressure in the domestic market in the 1950s, where imports only accounted for 4.7 per cent of home demand in 1955, it could be argued that this contributed significantly to poor productivity in the British product market . Also many of these export markets were said to be under-developed, to be growing slowly in the 1950s and 1960s
Becoming increasingly protectionist. This was a further hindrance to British economic growth in a period of increasing trade liberalisation. Indeed, Booth has claimed that postwar efforts to liberalise trade meant that ānothing was more predictable than that Britainās share of world trade in manufactures would plummet after 1950.
So what you’re telling me Jerry is you know more about export trade in the 1950’s than a Professor of UK Economic History at LSE
OK chap
June 12, 2017
@libertarian; Yet again you cite an opinion as a fact, you and yes that unnamed Professor [1] are simply wrong, look at the FACTS!
Yes we lost export share, mostly linked to the demise of the Empire, but that doesn’t change the fact that the UK did export and that did earn income for the country.
Walter, your problem is that you always look for proof that backs up your politics, on the other hand I look for the facts, where ever the political end-might point end.
[1] you seem totally unaware that Professors can and do hold their own partisan views, there is no law that prevents then from publishing such papers either – or perhaps you are, hence why you failed to name the author…
June 6, 2017
Well said. Corbyn only has the potential to be as bad as Cameron actually was. Remember he who said he was a liberal conservative. All those guarantees and promises that never came to fruition. Including his central economic plank , he would not pay the extra demand to the EU, the veto that never was because he failed to stop eurozone countries using EU institutions, he never publicly stopped Metkelso unilateral declined for mass immigration from Africa, he ruled nothing out before claimed to have reformed the EU!
No doubt Corbyn will be a disaster, but we might then get a Conservative party with centre right policies like a UKIP. Not the far left wing manifesto May published. She is also reeling her rewards for her vindictive behaviour towards the police, she should have helped clean up Westminster, promised by Cameron, and directed her wrath to get shod of Mitchelli.
June 7, 2017
That’s nonsense Hope.
Corbyn hates and detests this country and it’s indigenous population. Once in power, he will do whatever he has to do to lock Conservatives out of power forever. Unlimited immigration. That’s how he will fulfill his promise to change forever the face of Britain.
June 7, 2017
We have unlimited immigration, the most on record under any HS! She stated we had secure borders and today discover one of the terrorists on an EU watch list wandered into the U.K. And committed an atrocity. She must accept responsibility for not having secure borders as we all argued.
Corbyn, Abbot and McDonel do not like the U.K./British state. Nor did Cameron, Osborne and May who wanted to be ruled by the EU and were prepared to lie and scare us to stay in! You might remember Cameron standing next to Hollande smirking when he made veiled threats to our country. I do, his visit was meant to honour those who died in the Second World War to save us all. What an absolute shyster.
June 6, 2017
I am inclined to agree with much of what you have written. Theresa May is not providing Conservative government.
With regard to Mr Redwood’s comment that both parties will implement Brexit, I fear he is wrong. There are very clear indications that much of Labour, Green, Lib Dem thinking is focused on getting another referendum and a possible return into the EU.
June 6, 2017
Dear Chris–Agreed–In my opinion our host often tries too hard to be fair and anodyne yet often doesn’t do himself much good thereby
June 6, 2017
Which the EU endorsed the day the election was called, with words to the effect: “If the new government doesn’t want Brexit, we can forget about it”.
June 7, 2017
There will be no return to the status quo ante.
Once Corbyn’s team have “negotiated” the worst possible deal for the UK, and put that to a referendum seeking a Remain vote, the EU will be able to turn on us and demand we join the Euro, Schengen, give up all our opt outs, and accept a significantly higher membership fee.
June 6, 2017
Failed on the immigration targets? – I don’t believe there was any intention of even trying to stop anyone coming in. May I point out that two different sets of figures are used. For example – First is the REAL immigration figure – I take this as the actual number of new arrivals to this country ( all entitled to walk into the NHS for “free” ( to them – but WE have to pay for it ) healthcare. plus schooling etc. Second figure used is the announced one that says how much the population has gone up by. So, if a million new unskilled arrivals walk in (from the 3rd World to wash cars) laughing their heads off after reaching the “land of the free” ( housing, NHS, schooling and money) but half a million English emigrate taking their skills with them – -the second figure only shows half a million -NOT the full million that have actually arrived.
As usual, the figures are manipulated so the public are led into believing that immigration is a lot less than it actually is. This nation is being destroyed a lot faster than we are told. The govt won’t tell the truth, because it is the govt ( of either party ) that is causing/allowing it to happen.
June 6, 2017
The NI numbers issued to foreign nationals being three times higher than the estimate given by the govt, this is before illegal immigration! Why I should the govt still estimating, when there is a security issue that needs to be addressed? People should be checked and counted in and out. The US can do it so could the U.K. If there was a govt will. Which there is not.
June 6, 2017
The Green, Welsh Nationalists and the Libdems are, fortunately, all fairly irrelevant. The choice is very simple the dire, high taxing, expensive energy, dopey, PC, prices and incomes policy socialist Theresa May with a strong majority government or the far worse Corbyn dog being wagged by the appalling Niccola Sturgeon & SNP tail coalition. What person in England wants that?
The later would be at least 1000 times worse. None of his many “magic money tree” promises could be delivered, the economy would collapse, investment and the rich would leave, no one would rent out properties or invest in anything …..
The former will not be all that bad (as the sensible wing can hopefully turn May back to some sort of reality) or just replace her with an actual Conservative perhaps.
Last night I heard Norman Tebbit’s sensible words on PM. Is it too late to have him come back or be cloned? What a contrast with Cameron’s dire choice of Conservative Chairman the token Baroness Warsi.
You can now get a 3:10 odds on a Tory Majority, it still looks like a safe punt to me. Despite May’s best efforts to throw this election.
June 6, 2017
I see this morning one of the polls puts Labour one point behind the Tories. I feel sick with worry. The thought of Sturgeon and Corbyn smiling together on the TV is enough to warrant a very large bucket.
June 6, 2017
Fear not, the English will not let that happen. Despite May ‘s best efforts.
June 6, 2017
You can get 2o:1 on Boris being PM on July 1st. Mrs May may win on Thursday but it appears it not all over till its over.
June 6, 2017
It is a great shame that Gove knifed Boris and we thus ended up with lefty ex(?) remainer May.
I will not be putting my money on Boris quite yet though.
June 6, 2017
And longer term,Osborne is being hot-housed in the globalist salons,should it all go terribly wrong.I find that more frightening than Corbyn myself.
June 6, 2017
The day Osborne is presented as the British answer to Macron is the day I go out and deliver leaflets for Labour.
June 6, 2017
What about a hung parliament, with Mrs Maybe going into coalition with the LibDems? The trade off will be leaving the CAP and the CFP, but remaining in the single market and the customs union. Just what Mrs Maybe wants.
On the other hand May could state that because of the Referendum the UK’s independence is not negotiable. But she won’t. Even though she has had nearly a year to do so. That is very telling.
June 6, 2017
Much as I don’t agree with large parts of Mrs May’s manifesto, rest assured, both myself and my husband will vote Conservative. The thought of the SNP getting anywhere near running this country fills us with horror, same goes for the Lib Dims. I just wish Mrs May would be more like a true Conservative and start to adopt some sensible policies regarding foreign aid, which could be put to good use here in the UK, and the ridiculous energy policy which is pointless and will cost billions.
June 6, 2017
There is simply no choice other than the lefty dope May, certainly for the English. UKIP is clearly a wasted vote everywhere now, Libdem & Greens are totally wrong on every issue and are nowhere in support anyway.
It is T May or J Corbyn (with Nicola Sturgeon squeezing him somewhere painful) and who in England would want the latter? Not even Corbyn I suspect!
The Tories will surely do rather better than is currently predicted by the odds and polls. Electoral Calculous suggest a majority of 72. I think they will get a bit over 100 – despite May’s many errors.
June 6, 2017
Dear Lifelogic–If only!–I see no reason for the Tories to improve much on their present position. Any tendency towards gains wiped out by hard-to-credit campaign. I of course devoutly hope that I am wrong–To think that there are significant numbers of people willing to support Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott is just awful. This was Britain.
June 6, 2017
That old trick was tried last time. It worked then, and it seems it will work once more.
June 6, 2017
Good morning
This is not about getting a good or bad deal from the EU, they can only give us what the treaties allow. It is not about so called hard or soft BREXIT , it is about tying up loose ends. The EU have made it clear, until we tie up these loose ends they will not talk about trade.
This is about choosing the next government for the next five years. A choice between, as I see it, between Old Labour and New Labour. A choice between going back to the 1970’s or the late 1990’s.
Not much of a choice is it ?
June 6, 2017
How can anyone want the country and the economy run (into the ground) by a team of inumerate, socialist baffoons like – J Corbyne, N Sturgeon, D Abbott, J McDonnell, A Eagle, A Raynor, (white van) Thornberry and R Long-Baley?
Just their past stances on Defence, Ireland and Law and Order should completely rule them out. Quite appart from the fact that the economy would clearly collapse under them within weeks.
Corbyne might be a nice old man to have living next door and to buy the odd jar of jam off, but as a PM?
June 6, 2017
Lifelogic
One of our family members summed up Corbyn recently.
He is like a protesting student, who has never grown up !
That description seems to fit nicely.
June 6, 2017
Indeed, there are rather a lot of these types about.
June 6, 2017
Don’t you mean he’s a protesting student drop out?
June 6, 2017
If Old Labour get in, buy gold and popcorn. Because they will be the only things left of any value.
š
June 6, 2017
Corbyn is not a nice old man. Don’t be so blind. There has been an upsurge of hatred since he became Labour leader. Delegates to the Tory conference were spat upon by activists shrieking Tory Scum; at the Labour party conference you could buy mugs with the logo “Tories are lower than vermin”. Corbyn has tacitly encouraged this hatred. When the Woman’s Hour interviewer asked him a simple question about the cost of a policy he was unveiling he could not answer. The interviewer was then bombarded with anti semitic messages. There are countless examples of this sort of behaviour. The man is not fit to be in public office let alone PM.
June 6, 2017
Very persuasive but alas our choice has been made less certain by your Mrs. May showing us weak and vacillating rather than strong and stable during the campaign, exacerbated by maladroit, evidently ill-considered policy stances. The present Conservative leadership have need of adult supervision from people with better experience of government than much of the present Cabinet.
June 6, 2017
The Conservatives have my vote. I do not believe a Labour government would implement Brexit. It would weasel out and blame Brexiteers’ lies. Nor do I think it would have a clue about keeping Britain safe from internal or foreign aggression.
I have no doubt it would cause permanent damage to the economy and to the finances of individual households. The poor, as always, would suffer most.
All of that would be as nothing compared with the constitutional upheaval I fear is being plotted inside the false-flag operation known as Labour but which should really be called Momentum. Like Communist parties everywhere, once in they’ll make sure they cannot be removed.
Mrs May is no natural campaigner; Mr Corbyn, however, has been seriously underestimated. But we do not elect campaigners, we elect governments.
June 6, 2017
We would also lose Scotland, Northern Ireland, and the Monarchy in a very short time.
June 6, 2017
“The present Conservative leadership have need of adult supervision from people with better experience of government”
Indeed. We should have May and Hammond run everything past Norman Tebbit, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Bill Cash, Peter Lilley and JR types to avoid any more silly mistakes.
May is at least getting good at doing rapid U-turns. She need to do some more – on her expensive greencrap energy agenda, on moving to less government not more, on her prices and incomes nonsense, her workers on company boards and her gender pay reporting drivel. She can however still be brought round to reality.
She could always ring me if she likes, no charge and in full confidence. I would have avoided all the many obvious errors she has made in the manifesto and this campaign. The winter fuel, the dementia tax, the attempted pre-election NICs ratting, the attacks on the gig economy, HS2, the IHT ratting, Hinkley, the government knows best agenda, the triple pension lock disaster, the expensive energy agenda, the implied tax increases (by withdrawing the tax/NI/VAT guarantee) …. The country would also have avoided the ERM, joining the Common Market and Blair’s hugely counterproductive wars.
That VAT comment reminds me I must, unfortunately, pay my Ā£30K+ vat bill today. Doubless that business will go bust or at least half in size should Corbyn get in. So he will lose about Ā£300K of tax receipts, just from that one business.
She could also have made a bit on money on the side with my betting tips on Brexit, Cameron’s Majority and Trump.
June 6, 2017
but, but, but, New Labour stand for, Strong and Stable Leadership !
June 6, 2017
Indeed, May has been badly exposed as borderline incompetent. Her time as Home Secretary is extremely worrying….. More and more MSM journalists are pointing out this very clearly like Peter Oborne. This is the person whose department allowed known extremists given refuge in the UK to travel back and forth freely to Libya and Syria to fight internationally recognised governments with the aim of replacing them with intolerant, extremist Islamist regimes. Would you trust T May with this country’s safety? We have the dreadful choice between lefty May and extreme lefty Corbyn. Aren’t we lucky?
The trouble is that T May has a history of being reckless with this country’s present (at the time) and future security and not listening to wiser counsel.
zorro
June 6, 2017
Given the disappointing and fantasy manifesto’s of all Parties, I am afraid it comes down to who is the least worst option, not who is the best.
In my view the Conservative Party is the least worst option by far on a National basis.
On a local basis, which should really play a large part in any decision, you are in my opinion by far the best candidate in our constituancy, so you will get my vote.
The fact that you are prepared to set out your views and allow comments on a daily basis on a whole range of topics, shows a willingness for a greater degree of communication with the electorate than any of your competitors, who only seem to want to come out of the woodwork when its election time.
Your rapid and efficient response when advice is sought, and contact is made with regards to help with resolving local issues is also very helpful
This is not a time to protest (that will come next time if Mrs May gets in and either fails on Brexit or robs us with her Social care fiasco policy), so its a simple choice for me.
Reply Thank you
June 6, 2017
Hear hear.
June 6, 2017
If only we had rather more such solid, sensible, consistently right & sound Conservative candidates.
June 6, 2017
We shall certainly be voting for the best candidate in our constituency. She happens to be a Brexiteer Conservative. Why doesn’t everyone who is furious with Mrs M just do that? They have to be represented by someone at Parliament and why not the best?
June 6, 2017
This election has come down to trust, not policies so much, of the two main leaders one appears sincere even if the manifesto might not be to taste, the other appears unsure what day of the week it is never mind what polices the party has today – even publicly disagreeing with other senior party members.
When this election was called all the talk was about how large a majority the Tories might have, would it be a landslide as great or perhaps greater than 1983, yesterday it was reported that a very senior Tory candidate had said that the party only had to loose six seats and they woudl loose their HoC majority – says it all, what an omni-shambles. š
What a choice we the electors have for the next five years, a government that is weak and wobble, that no other party with a likely HoC presence says it would be prepared to prop-up (so add unstable to the description, especially if a slender majority, leaching back and forth between what ever factions exist within the parliamentary party as the crisis fits), or a stable government with left-wing polices!
June 6, 2017
Whether the UK gets a “good” Brexit is rather more reliant upon elections in France this weekend and again on the June 18, and then Germany in September, that our GE on Thursday I suspect. Who is in Downing Street is largely irrelevant – the ‘best deal’ might still be WTO rules, even if the LDs get their way with regards a second referendum, but then of course what becomes important is UK domestic industrial and investment polices.
June 6, 2017
Just to give you one example of how it makes a difference who is in no 10: Mrs Thatcher won us a rebate and Tony Blair gave much of it away in exchange for something we never got. (CAP reform.)
June 6, 2017
@rose; OK, lets compare Mrs T with Labour; 1/. Harold Wilson would not have taken us into the EEC had he won in 1970, unlike Mrs Thatcher who stood on Heath’s manifesto (she accepted a Cabinet position). 2/. Tony Benn, of similar beliefs to Corbyn, would have taken us out of the EEC in 1974/5, Mrs Thatcher campaigned to stay in. 3/. Mrs Thatcher pushed the EEC to adopted a Single Market, a policy that lead directly to the EC/EU and all that has followed.
June 7, 2017
Jerry
Let us indeed compare
The story of how Harold Wilson came to submit Britain’s second application to join the EEC is a curious one. The Labour Prime Minister had been a vociferous opponent of Harold Macmillan’s attempt to ājoin Europeā earlier in the decade and spent much of his first years in power seemingly pursuing alternative policy options, most notably a doomed attempt to revitalise the Commonwealth. But at some point in 1966āmost probably in the wake of the disastrous July sterling crisisāWilson seems to have decided that the UK should seek once more to gain admittance to the European Community and turned his formidable party-management skills to the task of persuading a deeply divided Labour government to endorse a second bid for membership. A formal application was submitted in May 1967.
Above Quote taken from Oxford Uni politics website
Oh and we had a referendum Jerry, in 1975 we ( includes me) voted to join the EEC.
So please explain Jerry if your political analysis is correct then the EU ( including single market) is a form of Thatcherism , you voted to remain and you are a devout fan of the single market, surely that makes you a Thatcherite?
June 7, 2017
@libertarian; “A formal application was submitted in May 1967.”
Indeed, on 2nd May, by 27th November Gaulle had vetoed our request…
Also try reading up on Labour Party history. Applying for, even holding talks is one thing, getting democratic inner party approval is another, especially in the Labour party of old.
Ted Heath on the other hand basically rolled on his back like a pet dog asking for approval, then steamrollered our membership through his party never mind the country by ignoring the actual mandate his manifesto gave, hence why Powell went on to cause such trouble. Apparently Heath didn’t even ask for English to be added as an official Language of the EEC, Eire (who were in simultaneous accession talks) had to do that, such was Heath’s rush.
The single market is not Thatcherite, it’s based on monetarism (as is Thatcherism).
The reasons I voted Remain had nothing to do with economics, had some not spent so long demonising and scapegoating the vast majority of hard working innocent Europeans I would have likely voted Leave, and I suspect I wasn’t alone, hence why support for Brexit has actually risen in the last 12 months.
June 8, 2017
@libertarian; Oh and just to add, the UK joined the EEC on 1st Jan 1973, we voted to stay in the EC in 1975. The question asked was;
Anyone actually there at the time, debating the issues, would have known the above – ever wonder why I keep calling you “Walter”?…
June 6, 2017
Indeed, but this was when the UK was in the EU, not now that it is almost outside. It could understand the reasons for calling an election (strengthening the UK’s position) but President May’s manifesto and her handling of the campaign have been rather poor, at times disastrous.
June 7, 2017
hefner
Totally agree
June 6, 2017
For me the choice is simple, but the country has been offered a utopian shopping list by Labour. A giant credit card with a doubtful income to support it, and we all know of the Brits propensity for something today, pay tomorrow, if at all.
It does not mean I entirely trust the Conservatives to remove us from the EU cleanly. The remainers have not disappeared, in fact they are running the shop.
The choice is for a lesser of two evils. One that can do the job if so minded, and one supported by a rag bag of chancers who have never in their history demonstrated that they can run the country without bankrupting it. Their stance on defence is not inspiring. For a deterrent to work the potential enemy must believe you would use it.
For me this election is about who can conduct Brexit. It is not a vote to sanction all the other items on display. In many cases the display is the same for both major parties, only the means of achieving it is different.
June 6, 2017
Best wishes for a successful outcome. I am voting for someone to represent me not the unelected Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill.
June 6, 2017
Despite the atrocious election campaign led by Mrs May, I hope for and expect a Conservative win.
The thought of the barely concealed communist holding power fills me with dread. As does the thought of Diane Abbot and John McDonnell in cabinet.
We voted to leave the EU. I don’t believe anyone other than the Conservatives would see it through. (UKIP obviously would)
June 6, 2017
Dear Mr Redwood, your logic is faultless and I will be voting Conservative as usual at this election. Some contributors to this thread have characterised the choice as “between New and Old Labour”. Even if that were so – and I grant that Mrs May has not positioned the party well – “New” in this instance is infinitely better than “Old”. I shall refrain from further comment on the conduct of the campaign and the content of the manifesto until after the poll. Now is not the time to indulge in idle recriminations or mutually destructive criticisms. Let all guns be turned on Labour, exposing its willingness to impose even more inward migration upon us, its appalling and spiteful tax hikes, its persecution of private enterprise and so on. How anyone can pause to indulge in bitter spats with the leadership at such a grave and terrible moment for our country is beyond me. Let us go forward together, stopping the most regressive socialist who has ever led Labour from coming to power.
June 7, 2017
Agree – I am biting my tongue and holding my nose so I hope I remember to breath and vote.
June 6, 2017
I see Sadiq Khan is going on about how under the Conservatives the Met are going to lose up to 40% of their Constables. This does not look good for May particularly when terrorism is uppermost in peoples minds. We don’t seem to hear anything from the Tories to allay peoples fears. What is she doing? The writing on the wall isn’t looking great. She is not decisive enough and isn’t doing much to put forward the Tory stance. What a flop.
Reply There are no plans for cuts to current police numbers as far as I know.
June 6, 2017
John,
Nice words from you and comforting for the bloggers here….but this is an election and fedupsoutherner is quite right. The perception out there suggests a feeble Government on the issue of policing and UK security in general. Unfortunately, people very often vote on perceptions and May is seen as extremely weak in regards to security. Those individuals that are trying to make up their minds will be persuaded by these and other perceptions?
You cannot believe how disappointed we as supporters of you and the Government feel? It is like watching a train crash in slow motion!
May needs to urgently allay security fears and make a strong statement…time is running out. Please get her to act immediately, and shore up voters before it is too late!
June 6, 2017
All I see from Mrs May and the Conservative Party central office, is ‘we’ll discuss it after the election, or we’ll release it after the election in July maybe’. They appear to want to us too vote on personality or undisclosed policy.
While on the Titanic I would like more than 12 hours notice before we sink, so at least I can go down merry.
June 6, 2017
Unfortunately Mr Redwood, you may be eloquent when describing your party’s ideals but Mrs May and the succession of “big hitters” wheeled out to front your proposed programme are nowhere near as appealing to those with not much as Labour’s representatives.
The scaremongering can only work so many times and 2015 has left many wiser.
Mrs May has been dreadful in this campaign and has given the initiative to the socialists. Defence and security are the only areas where your party may be seen as better by the client state and even this area is being tarnished by the screams of cost cutting.
You will know from the doorsteps if you are going to win this election but your leader is hugely weaker whatever the outcome.
June 6, 2017
The Tory Pary and the Media are really humouring the electorate. Greens, Labour, Plaid Cymru, SNP and UKIP are not viable. They are okay as candidates in a sixth from debate. Their arguments are not worth of adult consideration. There is no Opposition!
As to the Tories. They can be trusted on Defence, the Economy, in that however badly they perform we will have A economy and A defence. The Tories like the Opposition parties have no plan, apart from aspirations and foggy dreams in regard to immigration control. Also a history of total failure in this regard right up to am certainly including Mrs May.
As to the defeat of terrorism. They have not got a clue. If they have, they have not expressed it. Unless the government has a very undemocratic plan.
The UK has “communities” which self-generate jihadists and potentially every other flavour of terrorist depending on which country the UK decade by decade finds to be its enemy.
Very undemocratic forces will come into power here and deal with it eventually . But not before the Tory Party by neglect, naivity and downright stupidity has allowed many more of our people to die on our streets. The Tory Party and certainly the kids Opposition parties are making a hell-hole of this country…
June 6, 2017
Why did Mrs May talk of mugging house owners and voting on fox hunting in her manifesto.
She promoted an openly socialist manifesto when Corbyn is the genuine article.
I still think she is trying to throw the election to cancel Brexit. Is this the Common Purpose Bilderburger method of keeping us in the EU.
Of course if Brexit is killed off the Tory party will rightfully be killed off.
Reply Mrs May wants to win! Fox hunting is a free vote issue, not party policy.
June 6, 2017
The Manifesto was obviously written by people totally out of touch with the average voter. You do not go into an election against a “magic money tree” Father Christmas figure by promising tax increases, free votes on fox hunting, dementia taxes, no winter fuel allowance, expensive greencrap energy and large benefit cuts.
You promise better services, lower taxes, less government waste, cuts in the loony grand projects and more efficiency – it is hardly rocket science dear!
June 6, 2017
“A vote for any other party is a vote for a coalition led by Mr Corbyn.”
John, do you seriously believe that any elected UKIP MP would join a coalition led by Mr Corbyn?
Reply Based on current polling I don’t expect UKIP to gain seats, but if people vote for them rather than the Conservatives they could help that seat to Labour/Lib Dems.
June 6, 2017
As happened in Stoke: 5,000 votes to the Conservatives, 5,000 to UKIP, and 7,000 to Remainiac Labour who took it.
June 6, 2017
If only those 5,000 Tory votes had been cast for UKIP.
June 7, 2017
IF that would have happened UKIP would have had 2 MP’s one of whom was totally hated by the party for not being a Farage fanboy…. Lol
June 7, 2017
Better than being a Farron fanboy…Lol
June 6, 2017
Every sound minded person could not vote for Labour . It’s not just a question of their poor and inadequate leader . it is the fear of the unknown and march back to a near communist state . The other laughable thing is the split amongst their ranks ; those even close to Corbyn ( Lifelogic – note the spelling !) don’t want him .
No Party can have complete cohesion ; this shows during normal debate time and the differences in the speeches made . The Conservatives made a huge mistake in their manifest0 and lost much of their traditional support by trying to appeal to Labour voters ; they have much ground to catch up and get back to policies that appeal to business and low taxation . Theresa has not gone down well and has been led astray by poor advisers . Her leadership is nothing like Maggies so much depends on the team around her when she is back in No 10 . The gap that exists from the vote on Thursday will be quite a test .
June 6, 2017
I get it right most of the time!
June 6, 2017
John,
I wish you well on Thursday, and I hope you get re-elected.
Unfortunately, despite wanting to be convinced to do so, I can’t bring myself to vote for the manifesto your party has put forward. I think someone/anyone from the Tory heart has to have an inquiry into what on earth the upper echelons of the party in Westminster are playing at. They’ve now had three elections – three opportunities – to put clear water between themselves and the left, and be in power forever. Instead they’ve chased Labour left and alienated the core of England.
Personally, I think the polls are out again. I think Labour are over-represented (and over-represented in areas they’ve already got sewn up) and the Tories under-represented (for the same reason Leave were under-represented. i.e. admitting your vote is not worth the torrent of abuse you’ll get from the left). Let’s hope so anyway.
June 6, 2017
How can you square not voting with hoping the Conservatives win? There are millions of you thinking like this, but no doubt each thinking they are being original. Because of people indulging themselves and making their point, we shall wake up headed for a Venezuelan future. Don’t do it! It isn’t worth it just to feel good.
June 6, 2017
“The choice in this election”
The names, addresses, and details of all persons who vote however reluctantly for the Tories in this election should be obtained by whatever means. No-one subsequently or presently employed in our securuty services at any and every level should have a different voting performance on 8th June 2017. There is only one option. It is beyond intellectual “differences of opinion”. Anyone voting for Opposition parties this time around, is very young and will grow up; or, made a clerical error in the voting booth; or, lacks sufficient intelligence; or, is voting for a relation irrespective of the security of the state.
It must be said, our security forces do not trust me personally. It says everything about their voting pattern and why they are such losers.
June 6, 2017
As I wrote a few weeks ago for the first time since 2005 I will vote Conservative but with no enthusiasm. Like John Major, who woke up one day as FS, the next as Chancellor, the third as PM, Mrs. May has dropped into a job, she does not look to date to have the judgment for.
I hope I am wrong and she gets the hang of what “ordinary people” really are about like that true Brit Millwall fan, who had a go against the murderers with his bare hands swearing his head off and receiving multiple wounds – will she give him a GM?
June 6, 2017
Can someone please explain to me why no conservative politician when interviewed ever points out that revenue increases when tax rates fall. If the purpose of tax is to collect revenue, surely you want a policy that maximises receipts rather than makes a Political statement?
June 6, 2017
Indeed or that Corbyn’s economic lunacy will raise less tax to spend certainly not more!
June 6, 2017
Dear Lifelogic–As I have said before, Corbyn has no idea and couldn’t care less about the size of the tax take–Everything he says about increasing the rate of (but probably not the take from) Corporation Tax is based on his, and that of his myrmidons’, hatred of private corporates and his certainty that bashing them will garner votes because they are seen as nasty horrible bosses and employers to be hounded in every way possible. He doesn’t think in terms of corporates providing employment because he doesn’t like that and would rather all employment were courtesy of the State. Barking mad of course.
June 6, 2017
I speak from a mainly rural part of England, detached from the problems of the ‘madding crowds’ in the south and north. I suspect there’ll be a high turn-out on Thursday, and I think many will reward Mrs May’s sincerity with their vote. However, we also have a strong Lib-Dem candidate, to whom the EU-Remainers and other liberal ‘Anti’s will rally. Also, many are upset because of local NHS issues. Farmers will mostly support Mrs May, but there are concerns about the future of subsidies (many upland farms in these parts), and sourcing of labour – there are many excellent East Europeans prepared to work hard on our dairy and poultry farms, so their employers value them, and look after them well. It is sad that so few local youngsters want to fill this role – I won’t bore you with the reasons, they are pretty obvious! Bovine TB policy has also been disappointing for years under all administrations, due to scientific obscurantism and myopic liberaistl folly that has compounded the problem – there are parallels across the board in a number of other fields, where this same sentiment has prevailed. As always, the outcome for everyone – also the livestock and wildlife – is ten-times worse. Sad. I hope Mrs May wins, but afterwards, we need a new realism. This is a battle for our survival, as the nation many of us older ones remember and love. Popular platitudes and shallow promises heal the wounds of the people lightly. There is a dire need to return to ‘the ancient paths’ (as the Bishops should be saying, but aren’t – they are worse than the politicians!) Jeremiah 18:15: ‘Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up;’
June 6, 2017
It is extraordinary that a significant minority of voters in the U.K. Are thinking of voting Labour given the clear and dreadful record of Corbyn type left wing governments in the U.K. And around the world over many decades.
Why is Corbyn spoken of as ‘honest’ etc? His attempt to blame the London attrocity on a reduction in police numbers (in fact a shift in resources to intelligence) is a disgrace. The Conservatives rightly did not attempt such a craven attack on Blair after 7/7. Corbyn’s weasel words on shoot to kill and the nuclear deterrent are humbug given his clearly expressed and long held opinions.
Meanwhile in Labour’s magic money tree handouts the only thing to go before polling day is free beer for the workers. Watch this space.
June 7, 2017
And what about, “I have never spoken to the IRA”?
June 6, 2017
“If like me you want a Conservative government then you have to vote for one.”
I would re-phrase this :
“If you want the better of two bad options, then you have to vote Conservative. You won’t get a true Conservative government, which cuts taxes, spends more on national security, reduces the dependency state and fully returns national sovereignty, but you will prevent a worse government being in power”.
June 6, 2017
More tax or lots more tax isn’t a choice.
June 6, 2017
well it’s the choice that the legacy parties are offering, but ukip are suggesting sensible controls on spending instead.
June 6, 2017
What happens if England votes predominately Conservative but ends up with Corbyn propped up by the SNP? A coalition which is bound to try and overturn the wishes of predominately Brexit voting England. No doubt your party will just keep quiet as they always do and not utter one word of protest at this affront to democracy John. England could end up with the SNP calling the shots on Brexit, the ENGLISH NHS, ENGLISH education and ENGLISH taxes.
If this happens, maybe the English public will finally wake up and realise what a rotten deal they get both financially and constitutionally from the Con/Lab/Lib parties. The Conservatives have had seven years to address the English Question, the West Lothian Question and the Barnett Formula and have deliberately chosen to do nothing. One can only live in hope that one day they might put England, where the majority of their constituents reside, before their own self interests.
June 6, 2017
Don’t hold your breath Jools. Their unionist party and their ‘precious union’ always and will always come above England and everything else. And they have Her Maj to placate. Their betrayal of England and their duplicity sickens me. The English people to them are expendable and they will need to show some considerable backbone for me to change my view.
June 6, 2017
Quite so.
Coalitions should be outlawed under our FPTP system. A minority i.e. largest party should govern until it falls then a fresh election. If we had PR, we then know we could most probably end up with a coalition and have to accept the consequences or vote tactically. The argument for FPTP is it is designed to create robust, one party governance, not allow 5% of the UK population, who want independence to rule the rest of us..
The result of the CP in particular ignoring the WL issue since devolution could bite it very badly on June 9th – hopefully not.
It was disgraceful that Cameron linked with Clegg in 2010 and effectively formed a joint Government with the latter seemingly calling the shots or maybe we learned Cameron’s true beliefs.
June 6, 2017
If the Education Service in our country was worth a chalk dot, the Opposition parties would not have dared present such tosh and ask for people to vote for them. Yes, I’m aware, from personal experience, painfully, that people have frames of reference,a Weltanschauung, and are locked into various kaleidoscopic scheduling and boxing of information inputs. As poor at real thinking as a computer programme.
But our education thus far is drone-programming. You get an otherwise brilliant doctor or professor of say mathematics, physics or confined English, interviewed on some demonstation or other by our media banging on about how trees are people too and we should fight them root and branch and of course the eradication of small pox and malaria have their place but first things first!
Education should not “broaden minds” but release them.
June 6, 2017
@Brain doped
That is correct. The state has set what it considers to be the spectrum of acceptable opinion, beyond which you will be reported for thought crimes, as has already happened to a 15 year old ukip supporter in a Mansfield where his school has blocked the local ukip website.
1984 has finally arrived.
June 6, 2017
It would seem obvious to any intelligent voter that a Government run by Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott would make the UK a laughing stock around Europe and with our friends around the world. I cannot see our close intelligence relationship with the US, Australia and Co surviving the first week of a Corbyn administration.
I find it inconceivable that British voters could ever elect Corbyn and Co, yet, despite another car crash Abbott interview on Sky News yesterday and an avowed Marxist as prospective Chancellor, almost 40% of voters would be prepared to do just that if the current state of the polls are to be believed.
The prospect of the Sturgeon tail wagging the Milliband dog is almost certainly what gave Cameron a majority in England in 2015 yet there is an even bigger risk of that happening this time around as her Magic Money Tree spending plans are from the same forest as Corbyn’s.
But the question has to be WHY are we in this position ?
It has to be the catastrophically incompetent campaign devised and run by Nick Timothy in Downing Street. I can’t believe Mrs May’s team are following Lynton Crosby’s advice or if they are, they are doing it extremely ineptly.
Mrs May has made this a very personal Presidential-style campaign, mistakenly in my view, because, good though she is, she does not have the self-assurance and personality necessary to carry it off. That is a pity because cosetted within her very competent ministerial team she would have come over well. However, the team have largely been sidelined and the average voter has been unable to be compare them directly with the grossly inferior team under Corbyn.
Remember, almost none of Labour’s best MPs are even prepared to serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet !
My personal view is that I cannot see sensible voters placing their cross for Corbyn when they go into the booth. The polls will be proved wrong and a healthy majority will be won but it will be fifty or more seats down on what it might have been.
Whatever the outcome, the 2017 Conservative General Election campaign will go down as the worst run by a winning side in UK history. The Presidential-style campaign means that Mrs May has to take full responsibility for it.
Frankly, if the alternative was not so unbelievably awful, she deserves to lose.
June 6, 2017
Well said, Chris S.
June 6, 2017
All very well – but where are these other countries outside of the EU bloc that we are going to open up new trade deals with? For a while I thought that we could do some kind of deal with America but looking at the Trump behaviour I have my doubts about that now.. So where else are we talking about? Canada has just completed a treaty with the EU after seven years negotiations.. so maybe we can get something going there.
As regards the EU immigrants here I note that these people are not the ones causing us the security headache and the government should have acted long before now in reassuring them of their position here- but unfortunately government would rather play silly games- as if it matters one bit to the EU side because they will drive their own agenda as we will see in a few weeks- the time for playing games vis a vis pretend negotiation positions is over and am afraid we’ll just have to stand in line and accept what we are given. I believe in the end its very likely we’ll finish up with some kind of deal like Norway or Switzerland where we’ll continue to pay in, and have to accept EU law as far as it goes and EU citizens will still pass by. So the only thing different at the end of talks is we won’t have a seat at the table for decision making- the problem for the EU the UK and the whole of the western world now is the security situation- countries are going to have to work much more closely together- which probably includes for trade- makes you wonder what all of the fuss about brexit was for?
Reply We would not accept such a poor offer!
June 6, 2017
A Switzerland type deal would be fine. We’d end up with much more control than now, an ability to limit immigration and decide who comes, far smaller payments, ad hoc cooperation in specific areas and an ability to strike independent trade deals. If that’s where we end up it will be an improvement.
June 6, 2017
Except that a quarter of the Swiss population wasn’t born there. And their politicians put them into Schengen when they voted not to be in the EU.
June 6, 2017
And how much of an effort are we making in the wider world?If we had any senior representation at China’s recent One Belt-One Road forum (Putin and Erdogan were there) or the St Petersburg International Economic Forum (Modi was there),it was invisible.I also notice that German-Russian trade was up 40% in Q1,so someone is benefitting from the “sanctions”.What are we doing?
June 6, 2017
Splendid question, Mr Neill. The Brexiteers promised us a queue of countries wanting to a deal with the UK. Seen any? I know I haven’t, unless you count guns to Saudi
Reply. NZ, Australia, Singapore, USA. Etc
June 6, 2017
“As regards the EU immigrants here I note that these people are not the ones causing us the security headache”
Are you not aware that anyone with an EU passport can come here? Not just Europeans. Recently there was an Irish passport holder and an Italian one involved in terror. Jihadis are regularly referred to as “Norwegians” because of this phenomenon. This problem is only getting worse. I won’t give examples of certain nationalities that have come here in hundreds of thousands on EU passports because it wouldn’t get through the editing process. But if you look at the EU guidelines for the negotiations you will see there is a special section on this, demanding all sorts of rights for people who are not Europeans, and for their families not yet here, including people not yet related to them, and demanding also that the ECJ manages it all for perhaps a hundred years into the future.
June 6, 2017
Five and a half million people became EU citizens from outside the EU in the three years to 2015. They all have the right to settle here and many have.
June 6, 2017
Choice. The Conservative Party had an historic opportunity to red-pill our people. Had, because it decided instead, to stick to rutted Party lines and tribal war cries of Strong and Stable, Pachira aquatica ( Money Tree ). Labour has For Everyone not the Few, the richer get richer,, the poor get poorer.
So we are stuck with rants and chants . I’m almost there in devising my own personal chant So far I’ve got … Beanz Meanz …….and am looking in my thesaurus for the Third Man or Third Word
June 6, 2017
There has been much talk in recent days about a so called shoot to kill policy. Clarification is required. You do not draw a gun and point it at anyone unless you have an ultimate intention of shooting them dead, end of debate. If they are not a threat to anyone you can hold fire until they are completely neutralised, prone on the floor and weapon- less. Forget any John Wayne gestures of shooting a weapon from their hands, that is for B movies only.
June 6, 2017
Why is Mrs. Blair trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?
Is the plan that Corbyn wins and we get a Brexit ‘deal’ with full contributions, free movement, ready-made laws, Euro-courts but no vote?
etc ed
June 6, 2017
All voters should vote for the party of their choice without trying to second guess what the rest of the country will do. They might want to vote tactically if they consider their first choice of candidate has no hope in their constituency. That’s their choice.
If JR, or anyone else, feels that there’s too much risk of unstable coalitions forming under the current system they should be making the case for electoral reform. In fact they probably should have been making it for several years now. But it is what it is. If no party gets an overall majority they can choose to try to run a minority govt or come to some agreement with another party and form a coalition.
June 6, 2017
I fully agree with you Peter.
If everyone voted for their second choice because their first choice was not likely to be elected is wasting a vote. There would some major changes of people in parliament.
June 6, 2017
Very on message. Economy relegated to near the bottom of the list. But the trajectory of the polls suggest the plebs are less than happy, even if there may be some ‘gaming’ of the luckless pollsters. Labour proposals look absurd (well, to me), but they do respond to an evident issue. A useful number: real UK GDP per head, a reasonable measure for standard of living, has risen around 2% over the past decade. Clearly unevenly distributed as well. This will be a major problem going forward.
As an aside, among the economic zombies being resurrected recently is slurping over the supposedly low debt Sweden tax and spend system. Apart from actual fake facts, this is a good example of faking by omission – Sweden has one of the highest levels of private debt to GDP in the world. Who would think it – highly taxed households and firms take on a lot of debt to replace income taken by the state!
June 6, 2017
“Both front running parties accept the verdict of the people in the referendum and will get on with implementing Brexit.”
I’m prepared to believe that of the Tories under May but I’d rather not have to trust Labour to go through with it, especially if they have to rely on support from the SNP.
“Both accept we cannot belong to the single market and customs union given the stance of the rest of the EU … ”
It’s not clear to me that Labour does accept that. In fact we know that there are Tories who do not accept it either, but the doubt is much greater with Labour.
Anyway it’s now in the lap of the gods, with many postal votes having already gone in, and in due course we will find out if the pro-EU fifth column busily working in the Tory party have managed to throw away the election.
June 6, 2017
Indeed, much of the Labour manifesto is a “but” to their gambit of “Labour accepts the referendum result”.
Labour accepts the referendum result…but:
“Labour will continue with the EU on issues such as climate change, refugee crises and counter-terrorism.”
“…retaining the benefits of the Single market and the Customs Union.”
“We will drop the Conservativesā Great Repeal Bill, replacing it with an EU Rights and Protections Bill.”
“…seek to retain membership of these agencies and continue European Arrest Warrant.”
And for anyone who still isn’t convinced, Labour’s chief negotiator will be Keir (EU til I Die) Starmer.
It should have been all so easy.
June 6, 2017
I think that labour genuinely does accept that we will be outside the Single Market and Customs Union. There is a Guardian video of Starmer walking round his constituency with Owen Jones discussing it :
https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2017/jun/01/keir-starmer-tells-owen-jones-brexit-is-an-opportunity-for-sensible-immigration-rules
Starmer makes the point firmly that we cannot remain in either because of the attitude of the 27.
It doesn’t make Labour even remotely electable, though.
June 6, 2017
It is recent events that bring to voter attention, the effects of seven years of Conservative austerity. The loss of 19,000 Police Officers, including 1,800 sharp shooters. It is the same with Prison officers, down some 8,000 to about 15,000. Public sector head count is down by a million since 2010, to 5.4 million. About a 0.8 million full time equivalent reduction.
That’s a lot of reduced spending power available to buy private sector goods and services. Spending power that will not be replaced by a gig / hand car wash economy, that soaks up the unemployment at minimum wage.
June 6, 2017
BTW. JR quoted from the ASDA Income Tracker a while back. You may have noticed that the ASDA Income Tracker has not been published since February! Being an economic number cruncher like the CEBR that provides the data for ASDA, I know the numbers are not favourable for the Conservative Party election campaign.
I am just commenting you understand, on behalf of the 99% little people, who are; and, will continue to be, screwed, by the 1% Westminster / metropolitan elite.
June 6, 2017
You may wish in the last couple of days of the campaign to try to drag the discussion back to Brexit, Security and Economics, but the damage is already done. Due either to the arrogance or incompetence of Mrs. May and her cronies, the elderly have been frightened to death about losing their houses, money, fuel allowance and bus passes, whilst she is still defending the indefensible foreign aid budget.
No amount of finessing about houses not being sold during a lifetime etc will ease this. We’ve had politicians promises before. Your party has turned a sure fire result into maybe a knife edge affair, upsetting the old who will vote and the young who may or may not (best hope not).
June 6, 2017
The choice is between hard left socialist policies bringing disaster for the economy with unlimited immigration and the ruination of Brexit and a Conservative government (and prime minister) who can’t even deal with known terrorists and continues to support utterly counter productive pro war policies. Great choice, certainly renews my faith in British democracy.
June 6, 2017
Now the USA has pulled out of the climate agreement. Will the con party make the people of the uk pay another two to three hundred a year on their electric bill next year to make up for usa short fall in money.
June 6, 2017
May should follow Trump withdraw from the Paris agreement, get fracking and scrap the absurd climate change act too.
June 6, 2017
During the Referendum campaign, our local Labour party was the only one to campaign actively to remain in the EU; none of the parties standing in this election campaigned to leave and none of the candidates standing in this election voted for Leave. Effectively the choice is between a virulent Remainer and a piece of Tory Lobby fodder.
When it comes to important matters like the continuing existence of our country, the Tories clearly have no answer because controlling internet thoughcrime will not stop our destruction; it will simply ensure that there is no effective opposition to that process because the enemy within likes to hide behind the curtain and does not like to be outed so easily on social media in which comparisons of its nefarious activities in many different Western countries in promoting mass immigration can be made. We need a FPTP system so that we can actually choose parties which are genuinely patriotic towards our country rather than one in the ME.
June 6, 2017
Sorry, I meant “We need a replacement for the FPTP system…”
June 6, 2017
Catering to self interest and the current social justice/progressive fashions appeals to large numbers of voters which Labour and the left in general make a point of doing. Appealing to the electorate to vote for sensible, restrained and prudent economic policies as the recent furore over Conservative care funding proposal demonstrated and rational approaches to social policies appear to be fruitless and loses votes. Voters are not interested over much with the quality of those they wish to govern them as the standing in the opinion polls of the likes of Corbyn suggests.
The fact that the left whenever they are in power leave everyone or at least their progeny in enormous debt and society impoverished in so many ways dissuades few from voting for them if the bribe is large enough and can be spent now. If Corbyn enters No 10 at the head of a lefty coalition it is obvious that it will be a government of high tax and spending. It will be the creator of spiralling debt, hyper inflation, a botched damaging Brexit deal, increase in social injustices in fact incompetence and regressive socialist policies on a grand scale. Yet that is how the election may pan out because everyone has been offered so many somethings for nothing and simplistic solutions to many of our intractable problems that are not solutions at all but will exacerbate them instead.
June 6, 2017
It’s not looking good for mrs may since she was the home secretary over recent years and we can now see the result. In particular we see the result of running down the police numbers..so then the question is- can we trust theresa may and the tories going forward? I’m thinking maybe not this time.. maybe its time for a change.. change couldn’t be any worse
June 6, 2017
Matthew Parris, who was desperate to have May as leader after the Brexit vote can now barely bring himself to vote for her. That’s how incompetent she has proven to be. All those Conservative MPs who engineered her coronation to avoid giving the members a vote should be ashamed. Given the FPTP system and regional issues I expect she’ll get a decent majority and lurch on to the next crisis and U-turn in a few weeks time – eventually those same Tory MPs will have to get rid of her well before the next election.
June 6, 2017
Forthurst, you can always vote for your independent candidate for parliament, and that’s better than have to try to influence a party with your voice, because you only have to influence one person who may live near you.
June 6, 2017
Dear John Redwood,
This I sent from my e-mail, not sure if you read it. It is relevant to the situation facing this country (a possibe Hung parliament) after Thursday. You will probably read this here and (hopefully) pass on the message to Theresa May, who NEEDS to read the Transcript below, whether or not you decide to post this. If you can also contact Lynton Crosby at CCHQ to get him to go all-out these last 36 hours of Campaigning (give him this Transcript with points he MUST campaign on), then that would be very much appreciated by myself and others who DO NOT want Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street!
I don’t know, Sir whether you have direct access to Theresa May (or Lynton Crosby), but I am alarmed that the Conservative Campaign has gone really poorly. I fear that we will actually LOSE Seats overall- Conservative Big Hitters really need to be shouting on the airwaves during the last 48 hours’ Campaigning, spelling out things like Labour’s Garden Tax and ATTACKING LABOUR afresh because I do not think Voters are fully aware of just how bad things will be under Labour. If you could pass this to Theresa May and Lynton Crosby (who is running the Campaign) to really get them into second gear- that would help arrest the disastrous prospects that await on 8th June.
Below is the Transcript of what Theresa May needs to read in person. I apologise if the tone is a bit angry but it needs to be said: The Conservative Campaign has been a disaster, especially given what is at stake and we have allowed Labour to make the political weather.
Kind Regards
Ian Pennell
June 6, 2017
The choices are
Do we wish Trump banned from Parliament ? DONE
Do we want Terrorists banned from Parliament?NOT DONE
Do we want Trump banned from London? NEARLY DONE ( thanks to Mayor Khan)
Do we want Terrorists banned from London ? NOT DONE ( though Mayor Khan is angry )
June 7, 2017
I noted this too. Almost more anger with anti- terrorists than terrorists.
June 6, 2017
For me what has done it is May’s proposals on pensioner matters.
In other words, for all those who are not passionate about the EU, it is May’s domestic agenda which has damaged her. And as she has made clear, it is HER manifesto.
Seeing Boris being wheeled out onto the TV screens this morning confirms the panic in the Bunker.
I am very sad, as really leaving the EU was in our grasp…
June 6, 2017
In my constituency, the choice is between an innumerate ex-teacher who thinks the UK can run on solar panels and windmills and a Labour candidate who thinks much the same and supports halving the car parking while charging Ā£150 for the reduced chance of finding a space. The Conservative candidate supports the EU or something soft and UKIP is hopeless. I will not bother trying to go home, as it will be raining anyway and all my work is outside.
June 6, 2017
Mrs May would not dare debate with the other political leaders. The moment she was criticised for a manifesto promise, she panicked and u-turned. You can see the fear in her eyes when she is questioned by journalists: she doesn’t answer questions, she parrots slogans. And she has spent the last month avoiding joe public.
No, I do not trust this weak person to represent the UK in Brexit talks. Corbyn does not stamp and shout, but he does stick to his guns, and he always has.
June 6, 2017
Do you really think that lefty T May will do that ?!?
zorro
June 6, 2017
Sorry, that answer was to Lifelogic on May withdrawing from the Paris agreement.
Len Grinds, I cannot fault your assessment of T May.
zorro
June 6, 2017
The conservstives say no deal is better than a bad deal and that they will walk away..but walk away to where? – Nobody is answering that question
Labour say they will get some kind of a deal..maybe.. so who to believe?
The tory manifesto outlines the dementia tax.. mrs may says in reply to repeated quedtioning “nothing has changed”.. but the old people have her in their sights anyway over the fuel allowance and the triple lock.. so anything can happen this election.
June 6, 2017
This coming out of Germany today.
Two days after the decision by US President Donald Trump to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement, the conservative wing of the ruling Christian Democratic Party (CDU) is demanding a radical change in Germanyās climate policy. A statement submitted to the ARD Capital Studio, the āBerliner Kreis (Berlin Circle)ā, which includes numerous federal and communal politicians of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), calls for an end to āmoral blackmailā by climate research and a āfarewell to unilateral German CO2 targets.ā
I hope Mrs May comes to her senses and we get back to a cheaper energy policy which will help to drive the economy. With the high prices we have at the moment due to renewables our economy will lag behind.
June 7, 2017
This is being driven by the German auto industry who see themselves becoming uncompetitive with the US withdrawl from the Paris Accord.
Perhaps Mrs May should consider the same action and also invite American auto makers to set up shop here to enjoy the reduced tariffs.
June 6, 2017
One problem that has plagued the Tory party for a very long time is their inability to communicate their strengths – they have tried to tone it down so that they get something across to the masses that vote for socialism, but they just end up sending out mixed messages.
The thing is that even our PM while deriding corbyn cannot put the killer boot in – she goes around the edges, but fails to get her message across – she needs to be more graphical in the fight against the lies labour are so good at – Please shout it out:
CORBYN IS THE WORST KIND OF ARMCHAIR COMMUNIST – Spell out what comminism means!!;
HE WILL TURN GB INTO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY IF HE BECOMES PM, AS VERY NEARLY HAPPENED IN THE 1970’S – Explain what happened to Cuba;
HE IS A TERRORIST SYMPATHISER WHO WOULD SUPPORT THE IRA RATHER THAN A UK PATRIOT – Detail his dealings with terrorists;
HE WOULD ENSURE WE ARE PLAGUED WITH STRIKES, UNREST AND WOULD GET BULLIED BY ANY OTHER COUNTRY BECAUSE HE WOULD NOT DEFEND US;
THOSE THAT THOUGHT BREXIT WOULD BE A WAY FORWARD FROM THE DISASTERS OF THE PAST WOULD SEE INSTEAD A COUNTRY DESTROYED BY DEBT, OVER-TAXATION, EXCESSIVE-MIGRATION, COMMUNIST DOGMA, LIES, MORE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS, MORE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING OUR LIVES, AND EVENTUALLY A POLICE STATE TO MAKE SURE WE WERE THINKING THE RIGHT THOUGHT, IF THIS DISASTER OF A HUMAN BEING EVER BECOMES PM.
Now is the time to get the message out, not when the votes have been counted.
June 6, 2017
Why was Youssef Zaghba permitted entry into this country? Reports I have read have it that Italian authorities knew he was travelling to the UK and alerted the UK authorities.
Apparently, the UK security services didn’t have a clue of Zaghaba’s intentions despite a Ā£3bn snooping budget, an alert by the Italian authorities and a heightened state of alert, for the last month.
And why is it Theresa May’s response to yet another terrorist outrage to blame the law abiding British citizen and agitate for restrictions on free speech?
June 7, 2017
Security services already knew Youssef Zaghba intended to commit terrorist acts, yet still he was allowed into the country.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/06/london-attacker-let-uk-despite-saying-going-terrorist/
Why?
June 6, 2017
You have to question the judgement of the Tory party. Whose bright idea was it to bring fox hunting up? 95% of the population think fox hunting is carried out by drunken toffs in a silly rig out. Way to win a majority!
What idiot came up with the dementia tax. A nation of home owners and aspiring home owners told that working hard all your life will mean losing everything you have worked for if you have the bad luck to need long term care! Brilliant! Most of us think that paying income tax, national insurance, VAT, council tax, car tax, duties on fuel, tax on savings interest, stamp duty, parking fees and a million other sundry fees all our lives entitles us to a bit of care when a life of work takes its toll and we end up knackered.
June 6, 2017
mike Wilson
Fox hunting? It might be an idea for all parties to stop putting foxy-woxies as something worthy to discuss in the Mother of Parliaments.
June 6, 2017
I cannot vote for anyone on the ballot paper. I am sure I am not alone.
Amazing how far away from the blooming obvious the main parties are.
I am convinced I could sketch out some common-sense policies which would win a landslide, shame none of the main parties can see it.
I am not going to endorse a party which wants to steal my motherās house from the family. I am not going to endorse a party which is openly lying about immigration. I am not voting for a party printing uncapped intra company transfer visas being abused widely. I am not voting for a party savagely persecuting drivers, or men on divorce.
I want Brexit.
I despair at the Conservative party, a party which bans people from its āConservative Homeā website for doing nothing other than being pro the very policies Mrs Thatcher stood for.
Sadly, the political parties are not selecting the kinds of people we need in Westminster.
So I dunno anything could happen.
Mrs May should go whatever happens.
June 6, 2017
Threatening to shoot yourself in both feet, which is what walking away would be, is not a good negotiating tactic. It is a sign of insanity.
June 7, 2017
Nonsense. Try bartering in any country where the practice is normal. Timing is key but if you get that right walking away invariably secures the real bottom price. The EU may not be Asia but the principle holds.
June 6, 2017
I prefer some of Labour’s policies , but if we have to pick the fruit off that magic money tree , we will weaken our economy even more . We don’t want to devalue our pound ;It is preferable to prevent high tariffs , but with the added expense Mr Corbyn is talking about we cannot hope to build on a solid financial base. We all realise that National economics are not the same as home economics yet the similarities are still present.
It is, for me, about good management and Mr Corbyn eminates a good ethos which unfortunately is out of place at this present time. I will be voting for our local Conservative MP and home that Mrs May will deliver and should she get into power, is not brought down by the opposition . We need to stand firmly behind the PM and help her deliver BREXIT seamlessly.
June 6, 2017
corrections;1) ‘HOPE’ Mrs May will deliver 2)…power and is not brought down by opposition. One day I will check prior to sending.!
June 6, 2017
Corbyn was born in 1949.
He has seen as a union representative that despite his and others noble efforts, the trade union movement is the very oppoisite of democracy and real representation of normal people. Most people realised the unsavoury bitter truth, Most dropped out of “The Cause”. Others remained and used it for their personal advancement.
There is no honour…no “brave-ery “as a singer once sung, in being a Socialist over the age of 35 years of age unless,accompanied by social worker and immediately returned to a place where they can be given TLC. No joke!
June 6, 2017
For voters old enough to remember the 1970s it is indeed a simple choice.
June 6, 2017
I remember the 70s too, doing my home work by candlelight after being sent home early from school because of a power cut, the BBC ceasing transmissions at 10 pm, TIME magazine speculating that the NF would replace the Liberals as the third party. That was all going on under Ted Heath’s liberal tories. Mrs May, if she keeps on going as she does, will help fracture society in a similar way.
June 6, 2017
It would be worse than the seventies because then we didn’t have multi multi mass immigration on the scale we would get under Corbyn.
June 6, 2017
āMr Corbyn has a hugely expensive programme which he wishes to pay for by taxing companies and the rich more, and by borrowing a bit more.ā
Mr. Corbyn intends to pay for his expensive programme by introducing wealth taxes starting with a āgarden tax.
The high proposed rate will mean many people, particularly pensioners, will be forced to sell as they will not have the income to pay the tax. This will cause all property prices to fall dramatically leading to many people falling into negative equity.
The destruction of the wealth of the nation as well as the chaos it brings is part of the plan.
June 6, 2017
This is getting better by the day. You called an election you did not need to call, an election you said you would not call … and you are going to lose it! Brilliant! Goodbye Brexit! It was nice dreaming about you. After a few months Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn may well tell us it is all too tricky and we are going to forget it. The Tory Party will never be forgiven by the 52%. How incompetent can you get?
June 7, 2017
When Mrs May was elected by the Tories as their leader and therefore as PM, my immediate reaction was, “Bye-bye Brexit.” I have yet to see any reason to revise my first impressions.
June 7, 2017
I don’t see how it is possible to make firm assertions about what the Labour led and Conservative governments hold in common. The Labour Party cannot be relied upon to deliver any of its manifesto commitments. Which faction would be calling the shots on which policy? A different one each time. it is not a party. It is a bunch of fruitcakes who share a room only to keep Tories outside.
June 7, 2017
The Loonie Left was always a silly unjustified taunt.
Corbyn , Abacus, McDonnell. Stop pinching yourselves!