The EU tries to strengthen a weak hand

The EU wants more of our money. It wants to send us more of its unemployed. It wants to continue its huge trade surplus. All this puts it in a weak position as we leave.

So it invents silly ideas. It says the ECJ will continue ruling us after we have gone. This does not apply to any other independent country and should not apply to us. No need to pay to remove it!

It says it will stop UK citizens legally settled in one EU country moving to another after we have left. Fine. We cant stop them doing that if they want to. I doubt UK pensioners who have bought villas in Spain or Portugal will want to move to Poland or Germany anyway.Again, no need to pay for that.

They would be foolish to demand we pay to export to them, as that would be illegal under WTO rules. The only legal way to pay to trade is recognised tariffs, where their exports would then gift us a £12 bn tariff revenue to give back as tax cuts.

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  1. agricola
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    At the moment the negotiation is all rumour and counter rumour interspersed with reported outlandish statements from EU personnel and remainers. Two years of it will become wholly untenable. We therefore need quarterly statements of where we are up to, who has agreed what etc. How about an audited account of the EU current financial demands. We can then stop talking in circles, commenting on rumour, and get down to discussing substance.

    • agricola
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:01 am | Permalink

      Typically today as reported in the Daily Express, the EU is demanding the payment of child benefit to EU nationals working in the UK. My view is why not if the said children are in the UK with their parents. However the EU must reciprocate with the equivalent financial payment to UK kids living with their parents in the EU. It has to be a UK equivalent payment because each EU country has it’s own rules. A failure of the so called common market.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted July 25, 2017 at 10:54 am | Permalink

        What is the current situation for non-EU workers? It seems to me that the starting point should be that a) in the future the same system will be applied to EU nationals as to non-EU nationals, but b) except those legitimately receiving the benefits now will not be deprived of them. There may be good reasons for varying that for certain nationalities, special cases, but surely that should be the starting point?

  2. Ian Wragg
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    I see the penny is dropping in Germany. MPs demand a Brexit cabinet. Germany is waking up to the fact it doesn’t do to antagonise one of your best customers.
    They have a very weak hand indeed and it’s time Barnier and Druncker were put back in the box.
    Pragmatism will prevail as Merkels (state ed)sees the potential loss of a very lucrative market.

  3. Nig l
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    This is why I do not understand the transition period argument. It seems to benefit them more than us and is spun as overcoming uncertainty, in fact it is creating it by encouraging a wait and see approach. Tony Blair wanted to join the euro and at that time HMG invested a lot if time and money preparing for that eventuality, roadshows, literature etc. HMG needs to set a specific date, two years after triggering the leave, and have a worse case scenario (no deal) action plan from every department and tell business to do the same.

    This will send a clear message to the EU that we are serious and that they should get on with working out how to operate without our £11 or 12 billion contribution. There seems to be no work being done on this, hence their demand for massive reparations.

    • I will deal with it
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

      Yes rip the plaster off and let the wound heal in fresh air.

  4. Tabulazero
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Post Brexit, the UK will still remain under the remit of the European Court of Human Rights as it will remain a signatory of the European Convention on Human Rights. The current government has not indicated any intention to withdraw.

    So, what is the big deal with the ECJ again ?

    For the record, it is the ECHR and not the ECJ which ruled that prisoners should have voting rights or the UK cannot deport relatives of Abu Hamza given the risk of torture they face.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

      “The current government has not indicated any intention to withdraw”

      Another broken promise and why on earth not. The courts comes up with the most moronic judgements. Streching the law and phrases like “the right to a family life” to mean almost anything they want it too at the time.

      Lots of lawyer making everyone worse off as usual.

      • APL
        Posted July 25, 2017 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

        Lifelogic: ““the right to a family life” to mean almost anything they want it too at the time.”

        Have their family life in another country, I’m easy, try Saudi Arabia, it is one of the most wealthy countries on the planet.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 10:56 am | Permalink

      We will deal with the ECHR later.

  5. Duncan
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    My concern is not the EU but Hammond and May.

    There is nothing the EU can do stop the UK leaving the EU. The threat to this not happening as per the EU referendum result is May and Hammond. Democracy has delivered its result. To refuse to adhere to this result would a treachery of such magnitude that will shame this nation

    It is incumbent on Mr Redwood and his fellow Leave MP’s to threaten, if need be, the govt of the day. Threaten to vote against this Govt if need be on important issues.

    I would rather see a fully independent, sovereign UK under Corbyn than be an EU vassal under May and that’s from someone who has voted Conservative all his life

    May has been given her orders by the British people. Get on with it and stop vacillating. Her lack of leadership and lack of defiance is becoming tedious

  6. I will deal with it
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    Welcome words Mr Redwood but not matched by either rhetoric or actions of the cabinet.

    I understand there will be no running commentary on leaving the EU (Dr Fox’s comments on extended transitional arrangements seems like a commentary) and the Conservatives have always been poor at spin but the remain and pro EU stories need to be countered.

  7. John
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    As the EU doesn’t receive tariff money it’s not interested in it, nation states receive tariff revenue and businesses pay it. The EU is just trying to extort money like the protectionist racketeers of old, extorting money from shop keepers in exchange for not having their premises trashed.

    • I will deal with it
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

      As I understand it duties from goods coming into the EU are paid by nation states to the EU.

      UK collects and pays £3 billion annually.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

      I thought the EU received 80% of ALL tariffs on imports in to EU land collected by the member countries, so it is very interested in that aspect…

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 8:00 am | Permalink

      Many revelations and hidden charges are going to be exposed in The Great Repeal Bill and the “negotiations”. I suspect Barnier, Juncker & Co. are nervous about our sticking to our guns on any final account settling and demand the proof, justification and legality of any payment or ongoing commitment. Their approach is one of being scared of what is lurking in the undergrowth.

  8. Richard1
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    We do need a clearer and tougher line in these negotiations. Perhaps David Davis and his team are doing this in private discussions. But the public position is all over the place. Again it would be good if you would allow your name to go forward to assist and advise.

  9. formula57
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    Sound points but can we be confident that the May government will confound the knavish tricks of our EU enemies – or is pusillanimous capitulation a more likely prospect?

    The lack of realism evident in the Evil Empire’s stance may betray its expectation that if sufficient time is afforded to quislings locally they might triumph before Brexit is accomplished perhaps.

  10. fedupsoutherner
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    This would all be fine material for a comedy production and extremely funny if it was one but as it is real life it is pathetic and childish. I think it is obvious they are playing hard ball and if they are reading what we have to read in the press and listen to on the BBC are probably thinking we will fold. We need to stay strong, tell them what we want and that we are not paying out vast sums for them to still have a hold over them. Tell them we will trade with WTO terms and them see if they stick together. No doubt there will be tantrums and tears before bed time but so be it. This nation must not bow down to orders from a foreign country. We never have before so let’s not start now.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

      “We never have before so let’s not start now.”

      Well… except in the case of the Suez crisis, of course.

  11. fedupsoutherner
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    That should read have a hold over us, not them.

  12. Tabulazero
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    IMF lowers UK GDP forecast to 1.7% amid Brexit uncertainty. Britain suffers biggest downgrade for advanced economy in latest forecasts by fund.

    Reply Is this the same IMF as gave the UK the largest upgrade last time?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:00 am | Permalink

      And what has the IMF done about other economies?

      It is really dishonest to select one IMF forecast while ignoring the others.

  13. Denis Cooper
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    I watched the Sky Press review last night, and there was a rather silly and ill-informed young female professor who parroted one of the usual brainless Remoaner questions – “Where is the £350 million a week we were promised for the NHS?” Fortunately answered by the other commentator who pointed out that we hadn’t actually left the EU yet – so that money is still going to Brussels, and we have no choice about whether to spend it on the NHS or anything else … then she went on to the £60 billion “divorce bill”, and having been put right on that as well stubbornly ended up saying “Well we will have to pay them something”. Why? She, an academic, offered no explanation, no evidence to support that bald assertion. Why should it not be that they must pay us something? There are strong legal opinions that under the EU treaties we have no legal liability to pay the EU anything at all when we leave, but I doubt that she is aware of that.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:57 am | Permalink

      A similar grovelling attitude is displayed by the BBC reporter here:


      “BBC gives rare chance to UKIP MEP for simple ‘clarification’ of the Brexit bill question”.

      I’ve always said on here that having agreed to Article 50 TEU when we ratified the Lisbon Treaty we should start by trying to use it, but if they messed us around then we should just exercise our sovereign right to abrogate the EU treaties. I’m now beginning to think that unless the EU governments tell Michel Barnier to change his tune we may well end up doing that.

    • rose
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

      Worst of all she is supposed to be an historian! Alex Deane, once adviser to David Cameron, did very well with her and always does with people like that. Perhaps he should be the modern up to date Ian Macdonald figure on our screens every night, giving out the facts to counter all this ghastly black propaganda. Or maybe David Jones?

  14. James Neill
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    I don’t think the EU wants any more of our money that we are obliged to pay after 45 years entanglement so that is something they are sorting out in the present talks. If there is something I have no doubt that it will be highlighted in time. Neither does the EU want to send us their unemployed- we belonged to a club that allowed the free movement of people so now we have a complex situation that will take some imaginative thinking to resolve.. any talks about future trade- if there is any? is for the future, and that’s only if the exit talks prove successful, which I doubt. So we could be out of the single market by October November this year, and also out of the customs union as well, because I don’t think there can be any rational meeting of minds if the UK side is approaching these talks in the same spirit as our host JR sets out in today’s blog, and let’s face it, from what i read – (nonsense removed ed) can anyone else see it any other way.. and here I would remind all that they are reading this garbage too in Brussels.. so for that very reason- all brexiteers rest assured and have no fear we will be out on our ear at the first opportunity.

  15. Lifelogic
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:16 am | Permalink


    But inventing silly ideas and regulations is just what the EU do best.

    The ERM, CAP, common fishing policy, one size fits all, recycling regulations and land fill, VAT, their energy lunacy, their fire regulations, promoting of dirty diesel vehicles over petrol, daft electric car incentives (before they work properly), the EURO, free movement of people & criminals regardless of merit or available jobs, a bonkers employment and human rights agenda, an open door immigration policy, the so called “single market”, the climate alarmism, the common import tariff, the university laws that oblige the UK to fund EU residents education & loans (rarely to be repaid) and fund children who live abroad …… indeed almost everything they touch they mess up big time.

    The sooner we leave cleanly the better for everyone. The EU a bean fest for bureaucrats, lobby companies, so called “consultants”, corruption and certain, well connected, big
    businesses and dire failed politicians seeking a cushy tax perked job.

  16. ferdinand
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    There is no end to ideas to try to penalise us. The true signs of a weak argument.

  17. Bert Young
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    The EU often got its underwear in a mess and the things John highlights show that nothing has improved . The sooner we are in our own clean air the better .

  18. Bob
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    The MSM and especially the BBC obediently report every EU claim or demand without challenge. It’s almost as if they are agents of the EU.

    What is going on?

    • Doug Powell
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

      Got it in one!

      Agents of the EU and traitors of the UK!

      More than time to remove the Licence fee! Especially as the BBC’s female staff look likely to be successful in mugging the licence payer for more cash! No mention of bringing down the male salaries to the level of the women’s! – Clobber the licence payer!

      Personally, I’m happy for the BBC to pay its employees whatever it likes – provided it raises the money itself! BBC – get out into the market place and earn your money! Stop the state handout!

      • Doug Powell
        Posted July 24, 2017 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

        PS, Any money it raised wouldn’t come from me!

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:11 am | Permalink

      They can spread whatever falsehoods they like with no need to fear contradiction by anybody in the (nearly thousand-strong?) government department charged with managing our withdrawal from the EU.

  19. alan jutson
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    The EU have a week hand but are simply negotiating hard, hoping we will roll over.
    Nothing wrong with doing that, its sensible, but we should recognise we have a strong hand and play to that strength.

    Whilst it is important to get as much as possible out of any negotiation, it is also sensible not to crush the other side completely, so that they can either agree or disagree with some dignity still intact.

    In the end both sides will have to agree a deal, or agree no deal is possible.

    We simply have to keep our nerve and not throw away our very strong position, like so many of our dim politicians seem to want to do.

  20. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Indeed indeed! 🙂
    Meanwhile the silly IMF considers the UK weaker (growth down) and the EU stronger (growth eurozone up). Just don’t believe those experts, follow your faith! 🙂

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

      The prospect of the EU losing its second biggest contributor and sizeable market has obviously worked miracles.

      Western Europe is Donald Ducked. I include Britain in that.

    • Mark B
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

      The IMF has, in my view, become over politicised and a tool of the Global Elite.

      Nothing it says, much like the Ratings Agencies, is worth the paper it is written on.

    • graham1946
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

      Based on one quarter’s figures, which is never the way. They have not downgraded their forecasts for next year. It is all part of Common Purpose. IMF since Legarde took over is fast losing credibility and is interfering in politics. They are wrong far more than right recently.

    • Hope
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

      The figures do not match the stupid words of Legard at the IMF. PvL, norms
      Rot without a factual basis. Did you get your story from the Guardian, they were also running an inaccurate story. You might recall previous predictions from the IMF. Oh dear dear dear.

    • Edward2
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

      Well the IMF were wrong before.
      It’s worth checking experts history before believing their latest predictions.

  21. Al
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    What happens at the moment to non EU residents who get residency in an EU country? Do they get the right to with and live in the rest of the EU?
    I withdraw have thought that it works just be the same going guests.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:19 am | Permalink

      I believe so, in general. There may some detailed limitations, but in general the EU is treated as a single area for that and other purposes.

  22. forthurst
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    There is no point in trying to operate a protection racket unless you also employ enforcers who are credible. The EU really does need to get its act together if they are to be taken seriously; there are people in Sicily who know how these things are done, so what are they waiting for?

  23. Al
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    What happens at the moment to non EU residents who get residency in an EU country? Do they get the right to work and live in the rest of the EU.?

  24. Alan
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    I think it quite possible that UK citizens who are living and working in Poland and Germany may wish to move to Spain and Portugal when they retire. Once again Brexiters seem to be happy to see the rights of UK citizens taken away.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

      There is nothing stopping them taking up Polish or German citizenship if they wish to stay and retire in Europe.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:23 am | Permalink

      I’m happy for the Spanish people to have the right to decide which foreigners can live in their country, rather than handing that decision to the foreigners.

  25. Denis Cooper
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    “So it invents silly ideas. It says the ECJ will continue ruling us after we have gone. This does not apply to any other independent country and should not apply to us.”

    Somebody pointed out that this is an imperial, or maybe post-imperial, notion, and that set me off wondering whether any of the old British Empire countries still recognise the UK Privy Council as their highest court of appeal; and I find that some do, even though there has been a gradual decline in the frequency of appeals:

    “The Judicial Committee of the Privy Council (JCPC) is the highest court of appeal for certain Commonwealth countries.”

    But there is a bit of a twist, as not all the judges are British:

    ” … the Judicial Committee consists of senior judges who are Privy Councillors: they are predominantly Justices of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom and senior judges from the Commonwealth.”

    And of course this is entirely a matter of choice for those countries:

    “Initially, all Commonwealth realms and their territories maintained a right of appeal to the Privy Council. Many of those Commonwealth countries that became republics, or which had indigenous monarchies, preserved the Judicial Committee’s jurisdiction by agreement with the United Kingdom. However, retention of a right of appeal to a court located overseas, made up mostly of British judges who may be out of tune with local values, has often come to be seen as incompatible with notions of an independent nation’s sovereign status, and so a number of Commonwealth members have ended the right of appeal from their jurisdiction.”

    Those famous words of Barroso may be recalled to elucidate the EU’s attitude:

    The EU is the first of the post-imperial empires, hence maybe the presumption that even if a country has notionally withdrawn many aspects of EU law should still prevail within its territory, and under the ultimate jurisdiction of the EU’s supreme court.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      Sorry, first of the non-imperial empires. Which is why its preferred non-imperial units of weights and measures are in fact the new imperial system.

      • forthurst
        Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

        I think there needs to be an exception for us because English law is incompatible with the Code Napoléon. Although there are vestiges of the continental system here, especially with thoughtcrime law which, as it is nonsensical and unjust, could never have evolved through the Common law, in the main, we prefer the idea that people are innocent until proven guilty, even if they are English.

  26. Denis Cooper
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Do we have to endure this kind of rubbish from our media?

    “Why US trade deal could hinge on Britons eating chlorinated chickens”

    Presumably the Telegraph is also against Britons drinking chlorinated water.

    • hefner
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

      A more informative document than the DT is a report from the NZ Food Agency:
      “Chlorinated compounds formed during chlorine wash of chicken meat”, 2008, available from food
      When chlorine is properly used, i.e. according to (NZ) food standards, there is no noticeable/predictable danger to health. Question is: who defines the standards?

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:28 am | Permalink

        As I read the EU’s own food safety agency has accepted that the US chicken is safe, so why is it banned by the EU?

    • Mark B
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

      And what about all that horse and donkey meat we had, unwittingly, ate because of the way the EU regulates the meat industry ?

  27. Iain Moore
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    With the BBC in its corner it doesn’t need to try very hard, for it will sing the EU’s praises with very little encouragement.

  28. Peter
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    I see no end to the posturing.

    Britain needs to walk away from negotiations that are getting nowhere.

    Delay plays into the hands of those who want to fudge and then reverse our decision to leave.

    ‘Transition’ is another weasel word.

  29. bigneil
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    The EU wants to keep control of us, in any way possible. It wants our money and , as you say, to dump its people on us, as well as all those THEY invite in to the EU, but don’t actually want themselves. The “unwanted” are to be shoved over here, or maybe Poland and Hungary as they are fighting back, to be nothing but a financial burden on the country they end up in.
    Nothing good can happen from suddenly having hundreds of thousands of 3rd world people with 3rd world ways and culture, arriving. WE are the ones who are going to have to pay, financially as well as culturally.
    I was going to put “It will not end well” – but with the population of Africa and most of Asia fixed on coming for a free life – – all I can say is “It will NOT end”.

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

      Oh it will end. When there is nothing left to come here for.

      Do we actually have to PAY people to run a country this way ? Could just leaving it ungoverned possibly be any worse ?


      Let’s have the dispersals everywhere – not just in poor areas. Let’s have it (unselective) in middle class areas, upper class areas, (rich peoples. ed) houses and especially in the town of Lewes.

  30. John Fitzgerald
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    John I firmly believe the signals that are perceived by the EU to be coming from much of the press and remoaner politicians is the reason they are making such outrageous demands! I also believe we should do exactly what Boris suggested and tell them “To go whistle”!

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:32 am | Permalink

      What is known as “giving aid and comfort to the enemy”.

  31. Epikouros
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    The only weapon we need fear that the EU negotiators possess is their Goebbels standard propaganda abilities. To many ordinary people it is adversely effecting their judgement and and to remaniacs it is manna from heaven as it supplying them with ammunition to use to snipe at Brexit. As you say their negotiating position is weak so all they can do is pretend it is not. The best way to do that is to cultivate fear and that has been the basis of all remainers and the EU strategy since the the vote to leave and before. Telling us that those opposed to Brexit are weak and that UK Brexit negotiators are in a fight that if they do not succumb to baseless arguments and time wasting tactics will win easily.

  32. English Pensioner
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    What I find particularly annoying is that some of our MPs and much of the media are more concerned about the ‘plight’ of EU citizens living in the UK after Brexit and about what rights they will have here. They seen to have far less concern about UK citizens living in the EU and their rights which should be their primary concern.

    I’m sure that in no other country would the politicians and media behave like this; citizens of their country, even when abroad, would be their main interest.

    Can you imagine the USA allowing ECJ to get involved in legal matters in the States? Not even the Democrats would consider such an idea and I’d love to hear Trump’s comment if it was suggested! If the ECJ wants involvement with EU citizens in this country, we should demand that our Supreme Court has the same rights in respect of our citizens in the EU.

    But we have wimps as negotiators otherwise we would have submitted our demands to the EU long ago, starting with a share of all the property assets.

    • Mark B
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

      Unfortunately that is our fault. When we show them the same lack of love and care at the ballot box then they will listen and act in OUR interests.

      Nothing will change until WE change.

  33. Stephen T
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Would I be right in saying that the EU wants the ECJ to decide what is or is not a crime, but has objected to deportation of its citizens for said crimes?

    They’re ours. Oh. No, no, they’re yours!

  34. Qubus
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    PLease, JR, get your voice heard to a wider audience.

  35. David
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    One question that the BBC never seems to ask, is “We were told the Euro would cause permanent economic growth in Euroland, so why do so many Spaniards, Italians etc come to the UK? Is it because they like our weather, they want to see cricket matches (I don’t go to cricket so maybe it is full of Spaniards happy to see this new form of entertainment)? Or is it because it is the Euro has caused high unemployment?

  36. Dennis
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    I hope David Davies knows this – have you told him?

  37. Annie Dieu-Le-Veut
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    There is a growing feeling of betrayal among those who voted for Brexit, and even among some of those who voted to Remain but have since changed their minds. We feel betrayed because of the new policy of a ‘transitional period’ of five years after we leave the EU in 2019, in which the European Courts of Justice will still hold sway over our laws. Five years in effect means twelve years, because a case can take up to seven years to come to trial in that EU institution. This isn’t what we voted for in the referendum of June last year. It means that we won’t be able to control immigration or deport those who threaten our peaceful way of life for twelve more years. Twelve years is a very long time in politics – almost an eternity! This is why we’re feeling betrayed.

  38. Mark B
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    It is the UK that is only too happy to take their unemployed. The rules regarding EU Citizens seeking work in other EU countries is very clear. They cannot just turn up and claim benefits etc. Only the UK Government does not properly apply the EU Citizen rules. Anyway, most immigration is from non-EU countries and the UK government has shown little appetite in reducing that.

    False narratives.

  39. Derek Henry
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Your going to become unstuck John just like Trump.

    It’s not revenue at all it will be destroyed in the overnight interbank market so that the commercial banks can balance their reserves and the BOE meets its overnight rate.

    We can reduce taxes no problem at all. If you try and jump through hoops to do so since you’ve convinced voters it operates like a household budget and somehow have to balance an imaginary book.

    Then you are in big trouble and why this fantastic country is being held back.

    To say that money has to saved somewhere to spend somewhere else is gold standard thinking and completely a false narrative.

  40. Sean
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    They also want us to keep their criminals too.

  41. Dennis Zoff
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    These ridiculous irresponsible “wants” emanating from the EU are simply childish and laughable! This continuing nonsense proves the Brussels asylum is led by an incompetent bunch of half-wits?

  42. Derek Henry
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Germany fails to honour its part of the Greek bailout deal

    The German government has long been accused by critics of profiting from Greece’s debt crisis. Now there are some new numbers to back it up: Loans and bonds purchased in support of Greece over nearly a decade have resulted in profits of €1.34 billion for Germany’s finance ministry.

    • graham1946
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      Not surprising. They have not paid Greece for World War Two reparations yet. Must be billions there by now with interest added. These are the sort of people Remainers want us to be part of and support.

  43. Richard1
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    I would like to add my support to Emily Maitlis, Sarah Montagu et al in demanding that the BBC plugs the gender pay gap ‘now’. But I urge the BBC to do it by cutting the mens’ salaries from their level of £500k – £2m to the c £200k which the women get. Given high profile BBC presenters also get – due to the platform and profile the BBC gives them – opportunities to publish books, get paid for speaking etc, c £200k should be fine to attract top quality people. Especially given it’s the prestige of the BBC and its funded by a poll tax.

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

      I actually get tired of seeing the same select few doing lots of tv roles. Matt Baker springs to mind. Nice enough chap … but come on.

      Give some more people a go – on lower salaries.

    • graham1946
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

      I remember Percy Thrower losing his Gardner’s World job because he appeared in an advert for some garden product or other. How times change, and not for the better.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

      It’s not a gender pay gap, it’s market forces…also helps to have a good agent!!!

      Possibly the BBC should concentrate on breaking new “talent” rather than bidding for the inflated ego’s of established celebrities…

    • APL
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:28 am | Permalink

      Richard1: “I would like to add my support to Emily Maitlis, Sarah Montagu et al in demanding that the BBC plugs the gender pay gap ‘now’. But I urge the BBC to do it by cutting the mens’ salaries from their level of £500k – £2m to the c £200k which the women get.”

      You could of course simply privatise the BBC and compel it to raise its income from freely contracting customers.

      Then responsibility for it’s pay scales and employment policies would sit where they rightfully should, its shareholders and customers.

  44. Terry
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Over the past weeks it has become clear that the EU wants the UK only for its contributions to their funding, to take their unemployed and do as we are told. Or else.

    In my own past business dealings , when very rarely presented with OTT demands, I would have declared that all of the above are out of my reach and I would have to withdraw until a sensible approach was on the table.
    I do not know what the Brexit Team strategy is but listening almost daily to the ever increasing demands upon them and therefore this country, should surely provoke a similar response? At present we seem to be playing along with their agenda. Why?

    • Mark B
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

      Do not believe the propaganda

  45. lojolondon
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Brilliant John, common sense indeed. I keep wishing that the BBC and your fellow MP’s could understand the issues as clearly. Unfortunately I am starting to think that they do understand, but are somehow benefiting from lying to the British public.

  46. Hope
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    JR, it gets more stupid by the day. Why is our govt entertaining such rot? Do they wis to trade or not. All the other stuff is up to the U.K. A free independent country will nhave to allow courts from a foreign land to impose its laws, rules, directives or regulation upon it. Are all EU citizens who work in the US subject to this, of course not.

    Why waste time discussing it? May is continuing Cameron’s underhand ideas to deceive the public. He had industry, foreign leaders, civil servants, media and Whitehall behind his lies. He wasted our taxes as well! He did not put in plans for the alternative in the contingency he lost and would give extra time to change our minds. No. As May said, enough is. Enough.

    Today we read Legard and the IMF back on song for scare language backed up by the Guardian when the figures and facts do not support the comments or analysis made! You and similar minded colleagues need to start to put pressure on May and Hammond to stop this nonsense and leave ASAP.

    • graham1946
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

      I wonder what is going to happen while she is out walking. With Hammond in charge for 3 weeks, by the time she comes back we could well be back in the EU and paying even more. Will she have any more walking brainwaves like the election?

  47. James Matthews
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    All true enough, but our problem isn’t the EU, it is the apparent spinelessness of the people negotiating on our behalf. I can only hope that appearances are deceptive.

  48. alan jutson
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    The way the EU is beginning to fragment with Italy, Greece, Austria, Poland and Hungary all up in arms about immigration, which will certainly come to a head soon, we may not be the only ones leaving.

    Perhaps we need to just keep cool, not give anything away, and there may not be an EU organisation worth negotiating with in 18 months time.
    We simply trade with those members who want to trade with us.

    I see it is reported that the Spain and France are desperate to continue to fish in what will be OUR waters, shame the BBC have not picked up on this, but of course not surprised.

  49. JonP
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Hard to say how this whole business is going to finish up- not good- is my feeling. I don’t think playing games like going out to india SE asia or america looking for new trade deals is going to impress anyone, nor will it serve to rattle the europeans..all the pointers are that we will comply with the EU rules so as to keep our trade with them ehethet we are in or out of the customs union

  50. Vanessa
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    I read today that Hinkley Point will end up costing us £100 billion. Britain will have the MOST EXPENSIVE electricity on the planet. That could be paid to the EU as a “get out of prison” fee. Also HS2 will cost a similar amount. Why are we wasting these humungous sums on vanity projects which will not work. Look at HS1 – sold off at a loss because it does not make a profit. Who dreams up these stupid ideas?

    • Mark B
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

      These stupid ideas usually come from the, “Round Table of Industrialists” who help frame EU policy via the Commission.

      Don’t believe me ? Do some research. 😉

  51. Lisa Harrison
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    What about the fact that the UK is legally entitled to trade on exact same terms for up to 10 years, according to WTO?
    That would allow us a painless transition and give the EU something to think about

    Barnier & Co are being totally unreasonable and deliberately delaying negotiations by demanding a trumped up “exit fee”

    Tired of remainers attempting to sabotage the process and trying to frighten people into bowing down and continuing to accept the rule of this corrupt, bloated and wasteful dictatorship

  52. Roy Grainger
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    It seems they want EU residents in U.K. to retain all rights they have currently in the EU while removing the right of free movement within the EU of U.K. nationals currently settled there. Odd idea. Those UK citizens affected should appeal to the ECJ.

  53. Ken Moore
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Dear John Redwood,
    I have zero confidence in your modern Conservative party that believes the concept of men and women is a voluntary construct. Please do something about this there must be someone in your party that hasn’t gone completely insane.
    Yours etc.

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

      Gender neutral toilets. I experienced the delights last month.

      Queues queues queues… for the sake of the tiniest minority. Or was it the feminazis finally getting their way in banning urinals because they give men an unfair advantage ? (Using transexuals as the excuse.)

      Is the Conservative party willfully trying to alienate conservative people ?

  54. Terry
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    I think it is time for the UK negotiators to take on board the sentiments of the electorate. In particular the majority millions that voted to LEAVE that cabal.

    At present the negotiators seem oblivious to our fears and seemingly refuse to address them. It’s one thing to hide your plan of action but another to lose the confidence of those supporting you.
    We do need reassurances, or is it the truth that there are none?

  55. Jason wells
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Wow!.. such ignorance, such bunkum. Very soon you guys will know the dreadful mistake that this country has made in wanting to leave the largest economic trading bloc in the world with over 500 million people. Just to refresh your minds, there will be no cherry picking allowed in any future arrangement. It will be all down to WTO rules and as you know the french and the germans love rules.

    It has been said before loud and clear britain can never be better off outside of the eu than it presently is inside. March 29 2019 is the deadline and the clock is ticking. There will be no transitional arrangement allowed either as per Liam Fox, the europeans will not allow it as they have their own agenda for eu elections and business interests- now how to get 27 countries to agree to something or anything?
    So who’s whistling now?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:37 am | Permalink

      So whose side are you on?

    • zorro
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

      They love their rules and that’s why there is no single market in services. We gain quite substantially from WTO on tariffs – no need to pick any of your cherries 💪😀✌️


  56. Roy Grainger
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Happened to turn on Channel 4 News by mistake. Apparently if we leave the EU we’re going to be force fed chicken washed in Chlorine. So we’d better stay in eh ?

    I used to live in USA. Always found the meat there somewhat superior to here to be honest.

  57. ian
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    I not worry about the eu, and nor should you be. Brexit is going happen and that all there is to it. If not done by the con party, because their MPs are bought & paid for by big businesses & investment bankers, and are waiting around for a miracle to happen to get them to hook, that why they are wasting time. and if they don’t do it gel will, and i am sure that out the eu is more important to you than few pounds off your house price which may be about to go down anyway.
    Now gel has same problem with his MPs as the con party has, and con party HQ is even worst, that is bought & paid for by big business and investment bankers, but the difference with him is that he is his own man, and takes no notice of anyone. He just come on the tv one day and say i thought about it overnight and i have send the eu a letter today and the uk will be out the eu by sunday night of this week. Why, because he a real leader, and has already made up his mind.
    When con party sent out their manifesto at the election this year, that was not done by them it was done by investment bankers, just like every budget they have. Phil will not be doing any work on budget coming up, the treasury run by investment bankers do that, phil just give the presentation. The investment bankers have taken over the treasury and the BOE.
    Where as gel will be doing the budget his self, because he know what he wants to do, and is clear in his mind, and investment bankers & big businesses interfering in gov and the people business will come to a end of them giving themselves billion of pounds at budget time, while you receive nothing, but 600 million more people from overseas to share nothing out with or cuts with.
    I would not worry about him sending you broke,because he needs to win the next election after that to prove to you that he the man for the job, and not investment bankers which the con party rely on.

  58. Norman
    Posted July 24, 2017 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Totally agree with Ken Moore’s comment. I now retract my previous support for Mrs May, because of this escalating insanity, which I note she seems to be aiding and abetting. I doubt I shall ever vote Conservative again – and who else is there representing the vast majority of ordinary sensible people in our once blessed country?

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 7:32 am | Permalink

      Unfortunately Norman, many of us feel the same way. What a disaster the party is turning out to be under May. They all need to get some back bone.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 25, 2017 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      Same here. In fact I did literally vote for her in her foolish, unnecessary general election, rather than voting for the UKIP candidate, and I now regret that.

  59. hans chr iversen
    Posted July 25, 2017 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    it is just too bad with the £ 12 billion which we cannot afford to give back as tax-cuts as our government debt is too high and John also knows we will not stop paying in March 2019, but he keeps coming up with the same old non valid arguments.

    Even if he now knows that we will be part of the EU in some shape or form also after March 2019 for a period.

  60. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted July 25, 2017 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    I trust that David Davis sees it the way you do. The way that I see it is that our outstanding financial obligation is:
    – One and a quarter years of net contributions to the EC at £12 billion per annum
    – Our contribution to the pensions of EC officials earned prior to our leaving

    At a rough guess that will be about £20 billion in total. The EC will want more and there will probably be a deadlock. We could ask the EC to ‘go whistle’ but there will be pressure for international arbitration. The EC will not accept arbitration in a British court, a British Commonwealth court or an American court. We will not accept arbitration in the ECJ or any European court. Would both parties accept a Russian arbitration court? Stranger things have happened.

    If both parties want to avoid arbitration, we could make a generous offer that the EC would be wise to accept. We would pay £40 billion, double the amount due, in exchange for the right to leave the Customs Union a year early, the key point being to negotiate and IMPLEMENT free trade agreements with other countries. Implementation would start from March 29th 2018. I know that it would require the agreement of the 27 EU Member States but I suspect that they would quite like to see the back of us.

    In any event, if you don’t ask you don’t get.

  61. Oy veyna cigar!
    Posted July 26, 2017 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    “The lower court sparked outrage in Israel and Washington when it said Hamas should be dropped from the list ( the Terror List ) because the EU had made the decision based on information from the MEDIA and INTERNET.”
    Why the British Government thought it even half a good idea to have the EU decide anything on our behalf is a mystery that only Smokey Joe Father of the House Kenneth Clarke can spend hours explaining.

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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