Deutschebank reported today as moving assets out of London announced last year it was signing a new 25 year lease on 469,000 square feet of office space in Moorgate London.

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  1. Nig l
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Allegedly under pressure from the EU. If true, playing dirty again? Why does TM continue to ‘bow the knee’?

    Thank goodness she never represented me personally in any negotiations.

  2. Repiman
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Wow! So a massive change of mind in just 12 months

  3. Newmania
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Its HQ is in Germany and it is in 58 countries , did someone really say it was about to quite London entirely , even I think seems highly unlikely.
    The problem not being about to use UK capital in the E will come with small and start up enterprises and I see it as along term loss of importance

    • libertarian
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

      Marc Roche, the Belgian Longtime Le Monde City correspondent says the City will do all right after #Brexit: “The lifting of the anchors will enable London to multiply its traditional assets that are time zones, the English language, common law & knowhow in financial engineering” Doesn’t agree with you then Newmania

      Frankfurt is the highest place EU centre for banking at number 20. London is Number 1

      • Richard1
        Posted September 17, 2018 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

        Great but let’s not let anyone get complacent. The U.K. must be relentless in making itself competitive with pro business pro entrepreneur tax and regulatory policy. And we need a Brexit deal which leaves us free to do that. And a Govt with the imagination and nous to do it!

        • libertarian
          Posted September 18, 2018 at 6:48 pm | Permalink


          Sadly we only have 2 social democrat parties and (an extreme left party? ed) party none of whom are offering that

    • Edward2
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

      A 25 year lease on 469,000 square feet of London office space is an encouraging move? despite brexit as you would say.
      You have been predicting a huge increase in these type ofvcompanies relocating to Europe from London.

      • Newmania
        Posted September 18, 2018 at 5:01 am | Permalink

        A number of functions will have to be relocated but as Deutschebank `s HO is in Frankfurt , no London this would be an internal matter
        Do you understand that UK capital is now worthless in the EU, or will be ? How do you imagine this is not a problem , I`d be fascinated to know
        Lloyds have set up a fronting opertaion in Brussels , itn is open now . Imagine the cost of that

        The real problem , howveer is new ventures , no-one whon wishes to do business in Europe will be abel to consider London as ti wouldmean finding the capital twice

        • Edward2
          Posted September 18, 2018 at 6:46 am | Permalink

          “uk capital is now worthless in the eu…..”
          More complete nonsense from you.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 18, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

          UK capital is worthless…..

          You SERIOUSLY wrote that?

          No words that I could use would pass moderation

          You are totally and utterly clueless, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

          Oh Lloyds have put in place an office in Brussels ( just like every other financial co for more than 100 years) so they can feed business to the LONDON insurance market

          • Rien Huizer
            Posted September 19, 2018 at 11:26 am | Permalink

            @ Libertarian

            See my comments to Edward2 above. Maybe it is time do acquire some banking knowledge. This retired professional would be happy to oblige..

          • libertarian
            Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

            Rein Huizer

            As your experience was with one of the biggest banking failures I’ll take a rain check on that thanks . Maybe speak to your fellow countrymen ?

            Britain’s impending divorce from the European Union will send some jobs the other way as well. That’s the case in speed trading, where many of the biggest firms are Dutch.

            “I would anticipate us to open a branch in London,” Dennis Dijkstra, Flow Traders NV’s co-chief executive officer, said in an interview. “It depends on the severity of Brexit. It’s a big part of our flow that comes out of London. All the issuers are in London, including their capital-markets teams.” Quote from Bloomberg

            By the way as your post in reply to Edward hasn’t appeared I guess it failed moderation

            Oh and by the way I had a 15 year career in some of the worlds biggest SUCCESSFUL banks thanks at an equally senior level

  4. Iain Gill
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    they are in serious trouble anyways… in more ways than one

    Posted September 17, 2018 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    There’s little doubt in my mind that this decision to remain in London is based on reassurances given to D-bank by May’s government that the UK will NOT be leaving the EU in the way Eurosceptics understand it to mean.

    For Leave voters this decision by DB to stay in London is further proof that we will be betrayed by May, Hammond and the EU obsessed administrative class

    • Mark B
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 6:16 pm | Permalink


    • libertarian
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 6:32 pm | Permalink


      I doubt it, its far more likely that EVERY bank in the world needs to be in London as London is the Worlds number 1 financial centre, most of the talent is based here and the systems in place here are at the centre of the global financial markets

  6. hefner
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand: Deutsche Bank got a new CEO in the spring with an idea of downsizing the investment part of the bank. As said, DB leased a new office in Moorgate not to be moved in before 2023 but with space for 5,000 employees. The present DB head count is 8,000 employees. Have I missed something?

    • libertarian
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 6:38 pm | Permalink


      DB has 4 offices in the UK ( 2 outside London in Birmingham & Bournemouth) employing a total of 8,000 people in the UK

      DB are in financial trouble, heavily fined in the US for malpractice, ordered to move assets back to Germany and have been shedding global staff since 2009 down from 102K to 88K

  7. Ian wragg
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Probably to locate Project Fear.
    I see Lagarde is at it again. Wrong on every count.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

      Indeed there is a coordinated pantomime going on with Hammond, Lagarde, the IMF, Jaguar, May on Panorama, the BBC he BoE and all the rest. Very few are taken in by it.

      May always sounds like she is addressing some dim primary school children. Children whom she clearly thinks are even dimmer than she is.

    • Original Richard
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

      The IMF receives EU funding.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 18, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

        Indeed it is mainly a political vehicle to essentially push the dangerous and damaging EU agenda. Historically it has been proved to be profoundly wrong on many issues and highly dubious too.

  8. Rien Huizer
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    The decision to lease the space in Moorgate was taken before some rather dramatic events at Deutsche. With the “back to basics” approach of the new (German) CEO many of the things that used to be done in London will disappear anyway, move to NY or to Frankfurt. UBS is a different story, they have good reasons to maintain a sizeable presence in London and are no longer in trouble.

    So, that lease may have been a sign of faith on the part of the previous CEO (Cryon) but it may have turned into something rather less grandiose by now..

    • libertarian
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 6:52 pm | Permalink


      No it wasn’t , DB has been in trouble for years they’ve been shedding global staff since 2009 ( more than 10,000 so far)

      I guess you aren’t very knowledgeable about banking , its the retail arm and US bond trading that are being cut back as well as their hedge fund operation.

      Deutsche’s new chief executive, Christian Sewing, said: “We remain committed to our corporate and investment bank and our international presence in London – we are unwavering in that.

      Oh and DB have an option on more space after their move in 2023

      • Rien Huizer
        Posted September 18, 2018 at 8:37 pm | Permalink


        That is a nice compliment: “I guess you aren’t very knowledgeable about banking “, Since you post under a pseudonym, I am unanble to assess your credentials in this respect.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 19, 2018 at 11:48 am | Permalink


          What has my name got to do with it?

          I’m happy to tell you my past involvement in that sector.

          No wonder ABN Amro was such a basket case

          • Rien Huizer
            Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink


            Rudeness is usually an admission of weakness, especially in a society where politeness is considered important.

            As you thought it necessary to question my credentials (and by now you must have done some searching) I hope Mr Redwood will permit me to respond.

            Maybe you should take a look at the good mr Goodwin and his excellent handling of a Britsh bank. ABN AMRO was on track to merge with Barclays and together they would have done quite well. (incidentally, the plan was to move the HQ of the merged institution to Amsterdam). Then Mr Goodwin came along, paid ABN AMRO shareholders EUR 72 billion (almost twice fair value) he did not have and which basically depleted his regulatory capital and that of the Belgian Fortis Group.. One of the. ( words left out ed)It remains to be seen if the UK taxpayer will be able to exit RBS without loss. None of that was attributable to ABN AMRO. I should add that while RBS/Goodwin were bidding up the price, ABN sold their US operations to BoA for cash (a book gain of appr USD 15 bn). All of this is in the public domain. What basket case?

            You know what happened to Mr Goodwin.

            That still leaves the problem of you hiding behind a term that is at odds with a lot of your comments. What are your credentials?

          • libertarian
            Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink


            No rudeness in this case my comments were based on someone of your experience getting some very basic facts wrong about DB. I knew of your history before I made the comment.

            ABN AMRO Lurched from one crisis to another, it was based on years of takeovers and mergers and eventually bailed out by the Dutch government. I agree about Goodwin and RBS , makes you wonder how the EU allowed the takeover really doesn’t it?

            I have 15 years experience in banking. First, in at the time the worlds largest Commercial/retail bank , then in one of the worlds strongest US investment banks and finally a job in a poorly performing UK Merchant Bank where as MD i was part of a team that prepared and eventually successfully sold the bank to … Deutsche Bank .

            I’m not hiding behind anything and you clearly dont understand the term Libertarian

            Now stop moaning and explain why your analysis of DB was wrong, you said that DB encountered problems after signing their new building lease ,which they did in 2017 . DB has been in (difficukties ed)on all kinds of fronts since at least 2009. That was my point

  9. Drachma
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Who knows..maybe they are leaving anyway.. maybe they are whats so important about is always changing

  10. Lifelogic
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Indeed it is all project fear. All orchestrated by the EU in collusion with the UK government, big busines, the BBC and all the various tentacles of government acting directly against the interests and the votes of UK electorate.

    As Boris puts it today:- “The Irish backstop is a monstrosity that wipes out our sovereignty”.

    Get rid of this appalling, left wing, dishonest, incompetent, electoral liability Prime Minister and her “tax to death” economic illiterate chancellor now please before we get Corbyn/SNP.

    • O'Neill Jack
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

      well good for Boris- the Irish something is wiping out British English had your chance for 800 years but you messed up. You messed up later then when you could not ensure the nationalists in the six counties were looked after properly.. and now because you can’t behave yourselves decently you’re in danger of losing your place in Europe. and the world..Saw Boris on TV today –he is in certainly in need of a hair cut or a comb or something..and some tidying up..not the same Boris anymore

      • Stred
        Posted September 18, 2018 at 11:27 am | Permalink

        Put your corporation tax up yet, as ordered? Coughed up for the EU army? Got zero tariffs on beef and cheddar?

  11. acorn
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    The EU and the ECB are saying they want the Capital Markets Union, fully functional before Brexit day and DB Bank’s capital closer to home.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 6:58 pm | Permalink


      Yes of course, the EU are terrified , The City of London is 4 times more powerful than all 27 countries put together. As the EU seeks to drive a wedge between the UK and EU they need all the capital they can get.

      Funny though as they assured us the City were all moving to Frankfurt, Paris and Brussels ….

      • Rien Huizer
        Posted September 18, 2018 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

        You may have noticed that the UK is a capital importer while the EU countreis collectively have a large BOP surplus and hence are capital exporters. I have no idea in what way the “EU” would need London (going forward) . London is, like Dubai, HongKong and Singapore, and contrary to New York and Tokyo, a financial centre without a home market. That home market was the EU. Unlike HK and Singapore, the UK has a very weak external position and it remains to be seen what that will do to the long term viability of London (unless London submits to European prudential regulation/supervision and customer protection rules). I doubt the Americans need London if their regulation is relaxed, the Japanese are relocating partially (following their industrial customers) and the Europeans will find a way to live with a multi-centric approach.
        The only thing British in the City is the labour. Almost all of the capital is foreign. If I were responsible for policy in thie sector, I would be very careful not to jeopardize stability and access to end-user markets.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:14 pm | Permalink


          Interesting take, I think you’ll find quite a lot of technology, systems, and infrastructure is also centred on London. The statement made was that UK capital is worthless, so you should stick to explaining why capital has no value. Your opinions are interesting, lets hope you make some money out of your views.

  12. NickC
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Deutschebank has been (under financial pressure ed) for some time. And that has everything to do with Deutschebank and nothing to do with Brexit. You never know, maybe Brexit will save them.

  13. Peter Parsons
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Deutsche Bank currently employs about 9,000 people in the UK. Their new HQ building has space for just 5,000.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

      Peter Parson

      Wrong ( as usual) DB employ 8,000 people across 4 UK offices , Moorgate is a replacement for one of those offices and has an option to expand. Their other offices are in London, Birmingham and Bournemouth ( which has a sizeable staff as its the old Abbey Life operation which they purchased some time ago)

      DB has been shedding staff since 2009, more than 10,000 globally have been let go.

      • Peter Parsons
        Posted September 18, 2018 at 11:20 am | Permalink


        The figures I quoted come from information and articles relating to the opening of said HQ. Those figures are in the public domain and pretty easy to find if you make the effort.

        I tend not to take lessons in accuracy from people who can’t even cut and paste my name correctly.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 18, 2018 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

          Well my figures come from the DB website I think they know better than you how many people they employ

          Your pompous post is undone by the fact that you handnt bothered to check anything. Your name is completely unimportant

          I dont take lessons from people who know less than zero about the industry they are commenting on.

  14. Sakara Gold
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Margin call on one of their underwater derivatives positions?

  15. Alan Jutson
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    I wonder what they have been told/promised, that perhaps we will find out later.

    Big Companies do not make investments of this size without having a very good idea of what the future holds.

    • margaret
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

      Agree . we don’t see all the cards

  16. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    That’s why they’re in such awful shape. Could an SME afford to (mess ed) around like that?

  17. Steve
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Well May did sneak off to Merkel’s just before Chequers, makes you wonder eh ?

    A sneaky, sly, devious and spiteful PM with a mindset akin to an out of control teenager who thinks she has divine dispensation from having to explain herself to her employers, is a very bad scenario.

    Be prepared for quite a few skeletons to appear after Brexit, just as they always come rattling their way out from all her previous appointments.

  18. Richard1
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    I wonder how relevant it is where assets are booked. Of more relevance is where employees are based and where valued added work is carried out. The European financial market is much more concentrated in London than it was 20 years ago for capital markets and trading activities. The U.K. will need to focus relentlessly on being a competitive place for businesses to base and people to live and work post Brexit. Macron has already made France more attractive for high taxpayers than the U.K. clearly though the big threat in the U.K. is Corbyn & his ridiculous quasi-Marxism, not Brexit.

    • Steve
      Posted September 17, 2018 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

      Richard 1

      “clearly though the big threat in the U.K. is Corbyn & his ridiculous quasi-Marxism, not Brexit.”

      Although you’d reasonably think that with so much anti EU sentiment Corbyn wouldn’t stand much of a chance either in a general election.

      Cons and Labour tarred with the same EU brush might well be the prospect if May sells us out.

      This is why I think the next general election might be like no other; either a boycott of the ballot boxes or a landslide for one of the patriotic parties.

      People are fast losing tolerance with the leader of the country making concessions to Europe, sneaky meetings with Merkel & Macron. Also her sly ways and spiteful childish behaviour toward any of the cabinet who dare speak against her scheming shenanigans.

      There is a lot of anger brewing up toward politicians and peers alike.

    • mancunius
      Posted September 18, 2018 at 2:03 am | Permalink

      Brussels and its ridiculous quasi-Marxism would be scarcely less toxic, if the Chequers stitch-up were to be foisted on an unwilling electorate.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 18, 2018 at 10:07 am | Permalink

        Brussels ‘quasi-Marxism’?

        Makes a change from being labelled ‘right wing nazi’!

  19. Bob
    Posted September 17, 2018 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Lord Adonis has tweeted

    “When Brexit is stopped, there will have to be a public enquiry and in my view those directly responsible should never hold office again”

    nuff said

  20. Gordon
    Posted September 18, 2018 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    They also not long ago took out a long lease on 500,000 sq ft in Canary Wharf.

  21. Ron Olden
    Posted September 18, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    It’s curious fact of life that those who are always complaining that the UK is too dependent on the City of London, Financial Services, and Foreign Banks, are the first to predict disaster when one ……. operator like Deutche Bank suggests it might be leaving.

    Deutsche Bank isn’t going anywhere quickly. These changes will take years to complete (if it ever happens).

    In any case the move must, by definition, be bad news for the Bank itself. Deutsche Bank is in London because that’s where it concluded was the best place to be. So moving following ECB pressure must be bad for it.

    etc ed

  • About John Redwood

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