Mr Barnier should tell us EU proposals for their border

As the EU has previously said they think technology works well without new physical barriers at the border, why don’t they just drop their misplaced and unhelpful interventions about the Irish border? The UK will make its own border arrangements and has made clear it doesn’t plan new barriers.

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141 Comments

  1. Richard1
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    I don’t think he will want to do that. Better from his point of view just to say UK must remain in customs union and single market as a backstop, knowing Mrs May has agreed that. Why agree a solution that works with the UK govt having agreed what is, from the EU’s point of view, an ideal outcome?!

    • Richard
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

      Varadkar has said that the EU has told the Irish government there will be no hard border needed even in a no-deal situation: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eu-calms-varadkar-s-fears-of-physical-border-checks-after-brexit-1.3569485

      And we know from the Irish press that the whole NI issue is a ruse by May & Robbins to provide an excuse for her Chequers Fake Brexit. https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/05/andrew-gimsons-pmqs-sketch-corbyn-has-worked-out-how-to-make-may-look-weak.html#IDComment1061969486

    • Hope
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

      JR, again, you point the finger at someone else! I am not interested in he slightest what Barnier thinks.

      May unilaterally decided to accept the Irish border as her problem, knowing international law makes all parties responsible, to use as an excuse to remain in by another name. This was an agreed plot there cannot be any other plausible explanation. All that she said in her Lancaster speech and featured in your manifesto was lies. She seems unable to stop lying by making claims it keeps faith with the vote etc when she herself stated publicly half in and out or remain in parts would not be leaving! Do you think this highly educated person forgot what she said!
      The blog heading should have been something like: why did May scuttle of at night to renew on what she told the country and wh were the leave ministers so utterly stupid to accept this? After all I and many others pointed it out at the time! And I do not have PPE from Obridge!

      • Peter
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

        I am interested in what Barnier says and thinks only insofar as it affects us leaving the EU.

        Despair and blame seem to hold sway on here at the moment.

        Why don’t you write to your MP and tell them to vote down the Withdrawal Bill? Only Number 10 is in favour of it, so it will be a big sell for Tory Whips. Lib Dems are against it. Labour are unlikely to bail out Conservatives. You don’t even have to mention you are in favour of Brexit. Just say you hate Chequers.

        Brexit Facts4eu offers a variety of useful things that can be done by the general public.

  2. DUNCAN
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    This is all immaterial and completely inconsequential. With May in charge Brexit is lost and democracy is compromised

    Only Tory MPs have the physical, operational ability to bring down May and many of them simply don’t care enough about Britain, its people, their freedoms and the sanctity of democracy

    MPs are similar to other public sector workers in that it’s all about pay, pensions and security of employment.

    We can only hope that the moral voter hammer both main parties at the next GE

    • Chris
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

      Agreed, Duncan. What a legacy from the Tory party under May. The complete betrayal of the Brexit vote, the Brexit voters, and our democracy. You couldn’t do much worse. Oh yes, add the destruction of the “Conservative” Party. It is not just May who is responsible, but all Tory MPs, including the Brexiters.

      • Jagman84
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

        Democracy was betrayed a long time ago. The Brexit vote has prevented them from being able to hide behind the EU’s coat-tails any longer. The electorate now see the real state we are in and it’s oh-so-close to being the EU state. Theresa May and her remainer cabal are desperately fighting for their political lives. At least Corbyn has had the sense to keep schtum over the whole sorry mess. Not that it will do him much good!

    • J. White
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

      Agreed. The chequers proposal is definitely BRINO not what we voted for. The call for a people’s vote is just another way of forcing us to stay regardless of the democratic vote to leave. They think we are too simple to realise that by calling it A People’s Vote is anything other than another referendum. They are in effect telling 17.4 million voters our vote is worthless. They know a lot more 18 year olds (indoctrinated in school etc by the left) would be eligible to vote and more likely to vote remain. That alone would make it undemocratic, but they also want it be three options. These are Accept the deal, No deal, or remain in the EU. The first two options would split the leave vote meaning remain would win. We had a referendum on whether to stay or leave the EU. Leave won, we are leaving. That was a democratic decision and must be respected. If there is to be a people’s vote the only options should be accept the deal or no deal . Come the next election there could be a lot of UKIP (or similar) or independents in Parliament. We were told the decision was ours and not parliaments, get on with it!

  3. Iain Gill
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    I see that the government is expanding the command and control, top down controlled, take it or leave it, rationed and allocated, part of the economy.

    Not something I support.

    Social housing is far too unresponsive to tentant needs, keeps people in areas with no jobs long after any other system would have allowed the people to move closer to evolving jobs market, and often provides poor service of which the leadership are totally unaccountable.

    Sure we need more housing, this is not the way of doing it.

    It’s almost as if the conservative party has become a supporter of unreformed socialism.

    And btw much of my extended family lives in social housing unlike the people making these decisions.

  4. Right Wing Extremist
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    Much of a muchness, but there we ARE

  5. Mick
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    why don’t they just drop their misplaced and unhelpful interventions about the Irish border?
    Because that’s the only hand they have to play to try and keep us shackled to the dreaded Eu

  6. Richard1
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    Of Mrs May makes the Chequers based withdrawal agreement a confidence vote in the House of Commons, meaning a general election if it fails, will you vote for or against it?

    Reply She cant. I will vote against a bad agreement and for confidence in the government.

    • mickc
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

      Reply to JR
      The country will not accept a government which has lost its most important measure…it’s as simple as that.
      It will not be able to govern.

      Best to get rid of May and Chequers now.

      • Andy
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

        I had an argument with a friend on this. Even if Mrs May loses Chequers, which I hope, that wouldn’t bring down the Government because that needs a Confidence motion and the refusal of 75% of MPs to support it. Politically I would say she would be badly damaged and would have to resign, but that would usher in a New Prime Minister and no election.

      • mancunius
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

        mickc – The Fixed-Term Parliaments Act 2011 means that losing Chequers – or any bill, however important – would not be enough to make this government fall. Only a subsequent motion of no-confidence would do so, and even then it would be cancelled by a subsequent vote of confidence within 14 days. The latter would be pretty much of a cinch: nobody on the government benches wants a GE right now.

        So this government (with or without May) will govern until 2022 – it will win any current confidence motion unless legislation has made the DUP so angry that they vote the government down.

        Which, if you think about it, is a positive: it means that May is not likely to sell NI to the EU, unless she is tired of life or a secret Labour Party supporter.

        Barnier is insisting on preserving the ‘backstop’ – i.e. keeping NI in the EU – that the Cabinet Office traitors (or historically illiterate/congenital idiots, take your choice) signed up to on 8th December. May has since realized this backstop cannot be implemented, even potentially, without destroying the government, the Conservative Party and the United Kingdom, as well as undoing existing legislation already passed in the HoC in July.

        At the very least the EU will have to provide May with a much cleverer obfuscation of their intentions than the ones they (and she) have tried out on us so far. Or carry on with their puppet-fearmongering about ‘a disorderly brexit’ and hope it has more effect than it has so far.

    • Richard1
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

      OK so the Govt cant just say ‘this is the withdrawal bill and its a vote of confidence’ as in a budget? isn’t that what Major did with the Maastricht bill – had he lost it there would have been an election?

  7. Lifelogic
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    Appeaser May is so weak and pathetic that Barnier thinks he can get away with such threats.

    Rees-Moog has it right this morning in the Telegraph.

    “This is our one and only chance to get it right. The Brexit deal is the only one we will get. There’s no way the EU will allow a renegotiation in the future. “

    May is clearly not going to get it remotely right on this or anything else.

    Be proud of living in a council house May says today. So we have hugely subsidies housing for a few paid for by others private tenants and homebuyers who are massively over taxed and pay market rents.

    Totally unfair competition between private landlords and council or social housing. One taxed to death the other subsidied from this over taxation. May and Hammond are clearly complete idiots. Get rid.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      Why should two families earning similar amounts and in similar houses (but one in council housing and the other in private rented housing) have totally different disposable income after tax and housing costs. With the council tenant perhaps having twice the disposable income.

      People who need help with housing costs get it anyway. We need fair competition between all forms of rented housing (just as we desperately need it in education and heath). The government is the main source of unfair competition and this dire state monopolies. This unfair competition is killing competition and damaging the economy and efficiency hugely. In the NHS it is killing thousands too.

      May and Hammond just get everything wrong. Taxing private landlords and thus tenants on profits they have not even made is idiotic and hugely damaging to supply and competition.

      • Iain Gill
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

        the biggest problem with social housing for me is the way estates are never allowed to fail. when a dominant local employer shuts the price of private rentals and house purchases drops. this allows i) new business to setup taking advantage of cheaper labour as people need less money for housing and ii) people out of work to live more cheaply. it also allows people to take any housing subsidy they can get closer to evolving jobs market.

        social housing has kept large numbers of people living next to long closed mines, shipyards and steelworks, the rent on those social houses has not dropped to allow for the fact there are few local jobs. and for the tenants they are trapped in those houses (especially if they have kids) as there is no way they can move closer to jobs.

        and in many places where there are lots of jobs social housing is notable by its absence.

        so its the complete lack of responsiveness to the tenants needs, and no power at all in the tenants hands in an allocated rationed system which leads to this mess

        for those lucky enough to get social housing next to a good school and a ready supply of jobs for their skills its like winning the lottery its a massive financial boost compared to people funding housing in the private sector

        and much of the subsidy to social housing is hidden, fixes in the planning system and so on, much of this would be better paid for straightforwardly with cash so that we can all see the true costs

      • Christine
        Posted September 20, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

        I’ve been asking the same question for years. Why should some people in our society get subsidised housing for life when their income might be higher than those paying for private renting or a mortgage? To address this issue the solution is so simple. Charge the market rate for council housing and let the housing benefit system top up low incomes as necessary. This will encourage people to buy their own homes once they can afford it freeing up the council houses for those in greater need.

    • Julius
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

      JRM may be right but talk is cheap.

    • Chris
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

      It is illuminating to say the least reading the comments to the Rees-Mogg article. Tory Brexiter MPS would do well to pay great heed.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

      correct

      these policies certainly do not help the people who will end up in social housing

    • acorn
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

      LL, the days of the private landlord are coming to an end. You will be gradually forced to sell your property that you privately rent out, to your Local District Council / Housing Association.

      The Thatcherite concept of the house you are living in being owned by your next door neighbour, is no longer politically tenable. Selling Council Houses has been a socio-economic disaster. It has left the UK housing market in a state of un-affordability for the the next generation.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 20, 2018 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

        acorn

        Thats your analysis is it? Really? Its not even worth bothering with its so poor

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

      Yes so she’s effectively saying be proud to be dependent on the taxpayer. She just can’t think straight.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 20, 2018 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

        Exactly of course some people really cannot work due to illness and need help but not that many. Anyone working should pay the market rate. It should not be unfair competition to the private sector or you just end up with another dire state monopoly like the NHS.

  8. Alan Jutson
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    The EU have simply been negotiating hard using all weapons available in a negotiation ploy, which includes bluff, exaggerated claims, a refusal to negotiate certain terms, a deliberate confusion of linked subjects, and a simple refusal to agree, simply in order to get concessions from the UK.

    So far it has worked very well for them, as we have caved in to such tactics at every step of the way.

    Our performance has been pathetic, but then thats what you get when a leader and her advisors have no commercial experience of negotiating anything of substance in the past.

    Quite embarrassing and humiliating really, and its as simple as that.

    When the other side say you are a good and hard negotiator (as Junker has said of May very many months ago), then you should know, they know, they are in control because you have not asked for enough.

    Why should they now give some ground when their tactics so far have worked so well.

  9. Mark B
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    Good morning – again

    I mentioned here some time ago that the Irish border would be an issue. Few listened. It was an oppotunity for those on the Leave side to make the case against the Remain government and the EU. You dropped the ball and are now trying to pick it up.

    The EU is now making some concessions because can see the Remain PM that they have in their pocket is under threat. They probably think they have gone as far as they can on this and realise they everybody is going to lose if they push too far.

    President Trump has shown the way on how to treat people when you feel that you are not get to getti my a good deal. So sad that we do not have the same.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

      Grab them..?

      • libertarian
        Posted September 20, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

        Rien

        Silly response. You should watch and learn. Trump isn’t a politician therefore he doesn’t talk in virtue signalling platitudes. He’s a negotiator , he appears to have already sorted out North Korea, he is well on the way to getting China to play ball and he will tear the EU a new one if they try on him what they try with heads of EU puppet governments .

    • zorro
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

      Indeed, T May and her concessionary stooges have been awful. It can be shown quite directly by the way she reacted when she said that Donald Trump said that she should have sued the EU for a deal. She just grinned inanely as if she was non-plussed at the suggestion, but that is EXACTLY what she should have done.

      zorro

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

        Now she behaves as though NI is the only issue… SUCH bad negotiating skills !!!
        It’s embarrassing.

        • Mark B
          Posted September 20, 2018 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

          SJP

          You assume that she is actually batting for our side. She isn’t !

  10. Iain Gill
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    John, have a read of what Jordan Peterson has just said on twitter about this country and tell me why none of own politicians are representing this mainstream view?

  11. Ian wragg
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    Today Treacherous May will address the heads of state at dinner. She will be able to confirm final capitulation to Vassal State.
    Until the Withdrawal Agreement is signed and the money guaranteed , ECJ oversight confirmed, non regression clause agreed and written assurance that future Parliament will not try and unpick the agreement. Then only will they divulge the border arrangements.

  12. JoolsB
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    “Mr Barnier should tell us EU proposals for their border”

    He doesn’t need to do John. Thanks to May, they are calling all the shots. From the start, she has done all the running to appease the EU, despite us being in a strong position. They need us far more than we need them – our money, our intelligence, and the fact we have an £80 billion trade deficit with them.

    Like Boris said, she went in from the start with a white flag. She has made a laughing stock of our great country!

    • Chris
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

      The Dublin agreement by May in December was a “complete capitulation” yet no Tory Brexiter MPs took action. I understand that Boris said he was fooled by the December agreement. Careless, in my mind. Unforgiveable to have neglected giving it the rigorous scrutiny it deserved and not to have challenged it. Charles Moore had no trouble in seeing the capitulation by May.

      • DancerJ
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

        Chris..Boris doesn’t do rigorous scrutiny..it’s not in his nature

        • zorro
          Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

          Good grief – it was so bl**dy obvious!!

          zorro

    • margaret howard
      Posted September 20, 2018 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

      JoolsB

      ” our money, our intelligence, and the fact we have an £80 billion trade deficit with them.”
      ==

      So why did we go cap in hand to beg to be allowed to join? Our own attempts to establish a trading bloc through EFTA or the commonwealth were vastly overshadowed by the 6 EU founders who turned the EU into the largest, wealthiest trading bloc in the world.

      “They need us far more than we need them”?

      My impressions is that they can’t wait to be rid of us having wearied of our constant demands for opt outs or special treatment.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

        It was a common market back then.
        Lefties said it was a bosses club and that it was for the rich.
        They hated us joining.
        Now you lefties love what will be one day a reincarnation of the USSR
        Strange days.

  13. Adam
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Too much time & effort are wasted in attempting to make the EU turn sensible.

    We should just Leave & Leave them to struggle to produce terms that might attract us.

    • John Hatfield
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      Our vote to leave has revealed the extent of the conspiracy to destroy the Nation States of Europe, dismantle the indigenous culture and bow down to the vested interests of a self appointed political elite and Globalist business cartels and how far they will go to force their agenda . The whole negotiation from the UK has been about keeping us within the EU, not leaving, a master class in diversion and confusion tactics and attempting to redefine leave the EU to mean remain in the EU.

  14. agricola
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Like De Gaul they were programmed to say no. I have not heard anything positive from them since June 2016. This nonsense has been encouraged by May /Robbins who did not wish us to leave ever. It is simple. A free trade treaty on goods and services with an excessively generous payment for transition of £39 Billion or reversion to WTO rules and a saving to the UK of £39 Billion, plus the duty profit of £7 Billion per annum. I do not want this woman and her coterie running the UK post brexit

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

      The guy’s name was “De Gaulle”

      • zorro
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

        “Je ne me retirerai pas!”…. We could have done better with him negotiating for us

        zorro

      • Steve
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

        Oh I dunno, Gaul seems quite appropriate.

  15. Know-Dice
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    And products that meet EU specification today, will need to be checked tomorrow just in case they suddenly overnight have changed…really !!!

    I think we all know of Chinese products that come in to the EU with their CE mark that don’t meet any specification…

    And lets add to that the 85% of Republic of Ireleand’s exports that currently transit through the UK and 65% of ROI exports are destined for UK consumption – how are those Irish drivers going to manage to drive in the UK after 29th March next year as their licences will be invalid here…oops

  16. Stred
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    After all, the electronic system is their own policy everywhere else in the EU where there are borders.

  17. Stred
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    After all, the electronic system is their own policy everywhere else in the EU where there are borders!

    • Helena
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

      Correct, my friend. The clue is in the words “in the EU”. You voted not to be in the EU. So, like every other country on the planet not in the EU, you get borders. Didn’t you realise what you voted for?

      • libertarian
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

        Helena

        Not so. The UK and Republic of Ireland negotiated a borderless agreement in 1923, I think you”ll find that is long before the EU. Its called the CTA , go look it up. The fact that the EU now wants to override that in order to score a political point won’t go down too well in Ireland . Irexit on the rise

        • DanB
          Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

          Forget about it there will never be an Irexit..the Irish are firmly on the side of the EU..no matter what.. they have been through it before with the UK with famine wars revolutions evictions and then emigration

          • libertarian
            Posted September 20, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

            DanB

            The first referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 12 June 2008 was rejected by the Irish electorate, by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%, they were made to vote again. I dont think they will be too pleased when the EU forces them to raise their Corporate tax rate and makes them a commercial backwater, when the EU forces them to have a border with their biggest by far market .

            I think there will be quite a groundswell in the next few years

        • margaret howard
          Posted September 19, 2018 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

          libertarian

          “The UK and Republic of Ireland negotiated a borderless agreement in 1923,”
          ==

          So what was the IRA all about?

          • Edward2
            Posted September 20, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

            rebellion and terrorism

          • libertarian
            Posted September 20, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

            margaret howard

            Er the IRA was about a terrorist war in Europe during the remainers claimed 30 years of peace in Europe

            Not sure what that has to do with the Free movement of Irish citizens since 1923 and the fact that not for the first time you are wrong about something

      • Stred
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

        The documents refers to external borders. Look it up.

  18. Stred
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Sorry, trying to overcome capcha.

  19. A.Sedgwick
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    If we had hot shot lawyers in charge of Leave the message would be sit tight, the EU are blown and ready to crumble.

  20. Adam
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Informed operators are learning increasing advantages of technology.

    The EU are gurning at ghosts they envision on the Irish border.

  21. Pete Else
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    The EU will keep up it’s propaganda and constant changes to it’s position because we have a large fifth column in this country. They will use every statement and threat to undermine Britain’s position. Unfortunately the most treasonous and dangerous part of that fifth column are in government and the media. Mrs May being the ringleader at this moment.

  22. fedupsoutherner
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Why don’t they grow up, stop playing silly games and get on with sorting all of this out for the good of the EU and the UK alike? Canada+ is very achievable with the desire to make it so. School boy playground tactics doesn’t even come into it.

    • L Jones
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

      Because they don’t want anything good to appear ”achievable” and they have no desire to make it so. Their silly games are just staged for the instruction of the other EU thralls – ”don’t try this at home”.

  23. Bob
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    This was what puzzled me, why would the EU concern themselves with the UK’s border arrangements. If they want a border post then build one, that’s their choice, not ours.

    It was clearly a ruse to throw a spanner in the works and Mrs May went along with it, which proves she’s either too dim to understand it or she’s actually working for Brussels.

    • Steve
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

      Bob

      “…which proves she’s either too dim to understand it or she’s actually working for Brussels.”

      In time, the truth will out and I think the woman can only meet with discredit of the century.

      A bit like Blair, but much worse.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

        Nothing like as clever as Blair. This is dim and inexperienced in the ways of the world.

  24. georgeP
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Too late- the deal is done and I suspect the way has been left open to rejoin in full at a future time

    • Dave , Spencers Wood
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      Well duh , of course! You must have seen Michael Ashcroft’s polling on this.
      Brexit has always been a project of the baby boom generation. Gen X and the Millenials will be knocking at the door of the EU to get back in once enough of the boomers have died. We’ll be applying again by 2026.

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted September 20, 2018 at 12:23 am | Permalink

        Dave , Spencers Wood

        Highly optimistic the EU will be around in 2026….with its current trajectory it is heading for implosion?

        The European Populist parties will sink the EU well before 2026

        …but carry on dreaming!

        • Dave, Spencers Wood
          Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

          Ha you reckon?

          The EU is going to have a nice little boom from gutting UK manufacturing and from financial services moving operations to Germany and France.
          There is no wave of populism coming to get the brexiteers out of the hole they’ve dug. It didn’t happen in the Netherlands, in France nor Sweden. All you’ve done is made the EU more unified as you’ve given them a nice external threat and opportunity to make some cash.

          • Anonymous
            Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

            If you are right there will be a huge void in the EU market where the UK used to be.

            What ? You think the booty just disperses to the remaining member states ?

            This will be a crisis for the EU.

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

            Dave, Spencers Wood

            Clearly, you have no idea what impact Brexit, with no deal, will have on European business/manufacturing…if you did, you would not be so dreamy about supporting the EU.

            The European business and manufacturing are highly dependant on the goodwill of Britain and are very nervous about the outcome. If the UK goes into recession, this will drag down European businesses as well, resulting in closures and redundancies. How do I know this….I am one of many that will be making those important decisions! My responsibility is to my shareholders, as is there’s?

  25. hefner
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Will the hills be alive? Will TM get her favorite things? Will there be no way to stop it, or will it be “So long, Farewell”?

    • Stred
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

      The hills are alive,
      With the smell of pig muck,…
      ….. …. …. ….

  26. Yorkie
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    JR JR Possible Trojan etc
    Last few days,I have on “Comments” page which I have typed personally directly,before you moderated them, copied and pasted one or two of my comments into my “LibreOffice Writer” (Like Microsoft Word only free )
    etc ed

    You are overwhelming me with far too many postings each day. Please just send one or two , keep it short and on the topic.

  27. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Here is Michel Barnier yesterday with what we are supposed to see as an improved offer, the EU moving towards a compromise, and it seems Theresa May is willing to go along with that fantasy for the sake of claiming progress:

    https://news.sky.com/story/michel-barniers-hints-at-a-compromise-are-music-to-theresa-mays-ears-11501947

    “Michel Barnier’s hints at a compromise are music to Theresa May’s ears”

    And what is the nub of this supposed improvement?

    “We are clarifying which goods arriving in Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK would need to be checked and where, when and by whom these checks could be performed.””

    I repeat, when we have left the EU it will be none of the EU’s business what goods arrive in Northern Ireland from either the rest of the UK or the rest of the world; if Theresa May had a shred of patriotism she would condemn as gross impertinence on the part of the EU the suggestion that they should continue to exercise control over imports into Northern Ireland, instead they should restrict their concern to what gets into their own single market and not seek to interfere with ours.

  28. Helena
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    When did the EU say “they think technology works well without new physical barriers at the border”? They have never any such thing – except about trade between EU member States, but you don’t want us to be an EU member State. Are you starting to lose your grip on reality?

    • Edward2
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

      A quick google search shows comments by Barnier today saying he thinks checks can be done away from the geographical border by technical electronic means.

    • L Jones
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

      Yet another insult from a Remainder, Helena? Try a cogent, reasoned argument for a change without resorting to offence.
      It really IS tiresome.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

      Helena

      Do try to keep up. That was last months excuse. They’ve reverse ferreted and Barnier now says a tech solution is “elegant ” .

      Please report for reprogramming

  29. Alison
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    slightly off topic, I see Mrs May is tacking the harder core Brexit population, with an exclusive interview with the Express. I pray the Express do an editorial to correct false claims and fudge.

  30. zorro
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    They are completely scurrilous with this apparent volte-face. How long have they been wittering on about how a hard border is necessary if you are not in the SM/CU….

    T May, if she was genuine, would be totally out of her depth against this lot. To think that some people would actually want to remain part of the EU after the shenanigans of the last two years.

    As we have consistently said, we will police our own border as we deem fit, it is up to you what you do on your side

    zorro

  31. Peter
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    The EU has done well by keeping silent and just saying ‘No’.

    On cue there is talk of a solution to the ‘deadlock’. Now you have talk in the Telegraph of victory for May – a follow-on spin from the Panorama propaganda.

    MPs just need to hold their ground and reject the Withdrawal agreement.

  32. Christine
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Northern Ireland and the ROI already has an excise duty border. Why is a customs border any different? Sales from NI to ROI = 4.9%. This is minute. It would be cheaper to transport these goods via Great Britain and stop using the land boarder if a solution can’t be worked out. Chequers isn’t the answer. Only Theresa May and her acolytes think it is. Everything so far is an orchestrated plan between a handful of UK traitors and the EU to keep us tied to Brussels. The Tory party will be decimated at the next election if they don’t change course soon.

  33. Mike Stallard
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    The Uk – and, more important, the Northern Irish, can say and do whatever they fancy.

    M. Barnier and the EU are not going to budge because they can’t.

    Outside the EU/EEA, (unless we stay in the EEA by joining Efta), we have exactly the same trading rights as Burundi. That is not going to cvhange any more than you, Mr Redwood, are going to join the front bench of the Labour Party or Mr Corbyn is going to shave off his beard!

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

      Of course they could “budge” if they wanted to, it is a myth promoted by europhiles and defeatists like yourself that the EU cannot do so. What do you think happens when a new country joins? Do you think that can happen without the EU changing its treaties? So why not when a member state leaves? You really need to reflect on which side you are on, Mike, because you give the impression of being on the EU’s side.

      • Mark B
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

        Denis

        I agree, the EU will bend and break its own rules as and when it needs to. But only when it needs to. When it comes to us they don’t need to but could not refuse us continued membership of the EEA since we are already a member.

        Going to a bespoke deal was always s stupid idea as we would have to negotiate. OK if the other side want to, but as we are seeing, they don’t.

        Our kind host has constantly told us that they would because they sell us more etc. But what he fails to understand is that the UK is not negotiating with a sovereign nation but a political entity that does not have to suffer the demos.

        They are not the ones leaving, we are, so they can afford to sit back and say “No !”

  34. Roy Grainger
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    “The UK …… has made clear it doesn’t plan new barriers.”

    What does that mean ? Mrs May “made clear” we were leaving the Single Market and then produced a proposal to stay in the Single Market for goods. Mrs May also “made clear” there would be no border between NI and the rest of the UK but it seems she has said something else to Mr Barnier, hence his “improved offer”. What the UK, via Mrs May, “makes clear” is worthless.

    • Chris
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

      Seconded, RG.

  35. Andy
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Brexit means new barriers to trade. It is what you all voted for. Why do you all continue to pretend otherwise?

    Also – I note tough words on EU migration. It is going to be made harder to come here. What the Tories don’t say is that, in return, it will be harder to go there.

    Again – pensioners like Lord Lawson, who have enjoyed these rights themselves, are denying them for their children and grandchildren.

    When before in history has a generation acted with such spite to its young?

    • White van courier
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

      I was impressed with Mr Redwood’s confidence in telling the Victoria Darbyshire show this morning that leaving the EU would mean no difference at all to trade, since all checks are done electronically nowadays. It’s great news. Completely untrue of course, as a glance at (say) the US/ Canada border, the EU/ Switzerland border, the Poland/ Ukraine border, the Norway/ Sweden border and many more would show, but great news. You have to admire someone who can say things that are so obviously untrue with a straight face.

      Reply So what additional physical; checks do you expect the government to place at Dover and why haven’t they announced them?

      • White van courier
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

        I don’t expect anything new at Dover. I expect a lot of new checks at Calais, Zeebrugge, Rotterdam etc. Because we will no longer be a member of the EU and so we don’t get to trade with it any more on a border-free basis. Didn’t you know that leaving the EU means leaving the EU? Those of us facing the need to lay off staff certainly do

        • Caterpillar
          Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

          White van courier,

          Oh come on you can do a course online to see how Blockchain is transforming global supply chains, it’s even been discussed in Forbes. Also 3PL and 4PL are expanding. With zero tariffs + technology UK can at least not be a laggard, even if it is already a little late to the party.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

          Dear WVC

          I’m surprised that you seem unaware of TIR, CHIEF and soon CDS and that goods are not checked at borders because of the electronic systems in place , not whether we are in the EU or not.

          Here you go

          The Convention on International Transport of Goods Under Cover of TIR Carnets (TIR Convention) is a multilateral treaty that was concluded at Geneva on 14 November 1975 to simplify and harmonise the administrative formalities of international road transport. (TIR stands for “Transports Internationaux Routiers” or “International Road Transports”.) The 1975 convention replaced the TIR Convention of 1959, which itself replaced the 1949 TIR Agreement between a number of European countries. The conventions were adopted under the auspices of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE). As of January 2018, there are 73 parties to the Convention, including 72 states and the European Union.

          The TIR Convention establishes an international customs transit system with maximum facility to move goods:

          in sealed vehicles or containers;
          from a customs office of departure in one country to a customs office of destination in another country;
          without requiring extensive and time-consuming border checks at intermediate borders;
          while, at the same time, providing customs authorities with the required security and guarantees.

          Oh seems like its you thats wrong, not surprised

      • acorn
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

        If I remember correctly, Dover is not a UK Border Inspection Post (BIP) for products of animal origin. So they may need to get a lot of Vet type food inspectors.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

          The BIP in South East is at Tilbury

          Ramsgate Port has also talked of being reopened and regenerated

          • acorn
            Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

            Last time I looked, the Channel Tunnel did not emerge at Tilbury.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 19, 2018 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

            Remainers are fixated on Dover.
            One of over 20 ports.
            No queues at Felixstowe nor Hull and elsewhere.
            Millions of containers coming and going from all over the world.
            And so it will continue.

          • Bob
            Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:05 am | Permalink
          • libertarian
            Posted September 20, 2018 at 10:22 am | Permalink

            acorn

            So what? The Channel Tunnel doesn’t emerge at Dover either , what a silly comment.

            Products of animal origin haven’t been transported through the tunnel or to Dover while we are in the EU so why would that change outside. You really ought to think things through

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted September 20, 2018 at 12:43 am | Permalink
      • Richard1
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

        there are no more checks on the French-Swiss border than there are now eg on the North-South Ireland border. there are crossing points with no checks at all.

      • L Jones
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

        Dr Redwood – you must agree that Remainders stand out like sore thumbs (or sore losers). A Remainder never posts anything without an insult.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

      It is notable how few of the younger generation actually take advantage of freedom of movement to actually go and live in the EU so they won’t miss out on anything. I have lived in both EU and non-EU countries, not much difference in practice except the bureaucracy involved in living in the EU was considerably greater.

      • Andy
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

        Each year around 25,000 young Britons work in ski-resorts across the Alps. Tens of thousands more do seasonal jobs in seaside towns in Spain, on vineyards in France, in bars in Italy. Many do this for a few years then done home.

        Each year tens of thousands of middle aged Britons, perhaps with young families, find jobs in the EU. They live there, work there, their children go to school there.

        Each year tens of thousands of older Britons retire to Portugal, Spain, the Dordogne in search of a more peaceful life.

        Some of this happened before we joined the EU. But the numbers involved were small. It was hard. It was unnecessarily bureaucratic. It was a right enjoyed largely by the rich and not everyone else.

        While it won’t be made impossible to do these things after Brexit it unquestionably become harder. It will become more bureaucratic. It will become more expensive. Poorer people will be priced out of it.

        Far from being a scourge free movement is a wonderful right. And when the generation at school and at university today discovery that the Tories – egged on by their grandparents – have taken it away there will be civil unrest.

        • Sir Joe Soap
          Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

          Not from the grafting families in Sunderland.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 20, 2018 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

          We oldies ( from UK and from Europe) did the same things as you describe decades ago before the EU was in existance.
          Travel is cheaper now and standards of living are higher.
          There still is a great deal of paperwork needed to live and work in Europe.

        • Stred
          Posted September 21, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

          Most of the Alps are outside the EU. I have Canadian tenants in one of my houses and they had no problem getting work permits for a limited time in education, self employment and casual work. A family member is going to Spain for the third time this year shortly. He works from a holiday flat. After we leave this will continue. The same applies to EU citizens who wish to come to the UK for a limited time.

      • ian wragg
        Posted September 19, 2018 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

        Agreed Roy. We worked abroad and had property in Cyprus before they joined the EU. Nothing like the bureaucracy encountered in the EU. Try opening a business in France.

      • Dave , Spencers Wood
        Posted September 20, 2018 at 6:22 am | Permalink

        Really, what an astonishing statement to make. you need to back up your words with proper references. There are somewhere between 750K and 1M British citizens that have taken advantage of FoM and are currently living in Europe. That is hardly “few”.

        My son has had to rip his plans to work in France next year before going to university. As F0M will be taken from Brits, he’ll likely need to apply for a work permit. The uncertainty and risk is too great to make plans. Many of his friends are similarly affected. You’ve driven them into the welcoming arms of Labour and Momentum.

        My brother lived and worked in Scandinavia for five years. It is where he met his Finnish wife. Our government has always been quite happy to take her taxes but denies her a vote . He was once a Tory voter but thanks to Brexit your party has lost him for good.

        I have friends that have had to become German citizens to secure their futures so they can continue to live and work across Europe. Again, Tory voters no more.

        One of the reasons that the EU has been very robust in its negotiating stance is that as the UK government clearly has such little regard for its own citizens, how can it be trusted to look after the 3 million Europeans living and working here?

    • Richard1
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

      there are Americans living in France, UK citizens (1 million or so i believe) living in Australia. How come when there aren’t political unions between those countries? the fact that Lord Lawson has a house in France and chooses to live there doesn’t mean he is obliged to favour a political union between the UK and France and other EU countries what are you talking about?!

    • Chrisf
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

      Andy,

      As has been stated by other people posting, very few people (as a %) of the UK go to live in the EU. I have run businesses for over 20 years, dealing exclusively with mainland Europe; in every case, the ‘barriers’ to doing business that I have found have been more ‘soft’ – meaning, they have been about overcoming prejudice(s) inherent with dealing between the Dutch and the Germans, the French and the English (I could go on)

      I have also travelled extensively in non-EU countries and I must admit that getting a Visa and then going to whichever country is not exactly a back-breaker?!

      In terms of ‘when has a generation acted with such spite’, I could cite Concorde as an example that got my goat!

      The French withdrew support for it, Willy Walsh decided that BA weren’t going to let Virgin run one and they cut the wings off them all (even thought the taxpayer had funded it) and in a stroke, we lost supersonic flight..to be replaced with 550 mike an hour rubbish

      Surely that is more worthy of your ire, rather than getting a poxy visa??

  36. ferdinand
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    I don’t the they will shed their biggest bargaining tool that readily.

  37. Jagman84
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Mr Barnier takes direction from the EU commission. They need to be convinced of the folly of their negotiating position. Maybe they will be more amenable, come April next year?

  38. hans christian ivers
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    JR

    Are their interventions that unhelpful? or are they looking after Irish interests?

    • mancunius
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

      Hans, …….”Ireland is an island. The southern part of it is called the Republic.

      Varadkar and Coveney have been looking after RoI interests, but only insofar as the EU has promised to allow RoI continued low corporate taxes if they will help to shaft Britain. Those interests. Not the commercial future of the citizens of the RoI.

      Ruining their trade with Britain is not in their interests.

  39. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    And nor are there any numberical estimates or projections in this article commending the endeavour:

    https://brexitcentral.com/theres-now-us-uk-trade-deal-ready-signed/

    “There’s now a US-UK trade deal ready to be signed”

  40. a-tracy
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Why are the UK expected to bend over backwards for Ireland when they voted to leave the United Kingdom? Why not have a border on the EU side in Ireland if they want one? Isn’t there one in Gibraltar? Could we have tariff-free in Northern Ireland to boost the Northern Irish economy and match the Irish tax rates should this government wish to truly support Northern Ireland, couldn’t we transport directly to Belfast instead of going through Dublin and vice versa for Northern Ireland outbound? We need to make it far more enticing for Northern Ireland in the Union rather than be at the beck and call of Southern Ireland and now they can afford to pay back our loan we should ask them to.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

      “Maybe you forgot the Troubles. My relatives do not and never will”. A quote from an Anonymous NI resident.Since so many here dare not use their own name, why not leave that man “anonymous”..

    • LenD
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

      A-tracy..the Irish never really had a choice about joining the UK or leaving it..In 1800 there was no referendum given to the people and in 1922 departure to a free state happened after years of war. The UK drew the border in deference to Ulster Unionist wishes..am afraid the Irish never really had a say in any of this..am told that the money owed cannot be paid back until 2020 according to the conditions..something about interest owing also about penalties for paying back earlier

  41. Nigel Seymour
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    It’s a game and has been since we decided to leave. Absolutely no point in commenting further. 99% of people I talk to in my area are totally fed up with it and just want to leave on WTO. Nobody wants a 2nd ref or PV…

  42. Mike Wilson
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Faced with ‘no deal’ or a ‘rubbish deal’ – there is a majority of Tory and Labour MPs in Parliament who will vote the ‘rubbish deal’ through.

    I don’t know why any of you think this isn’t going to happen.

    The 17.4 million who voted to LEAVE the European Union are going to be ignored.

  43. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I believe that Mr Barnier is negotiating with Mr Raab and Mrs May and it will be up to them what to tell when to the British public. An internal UK matter.

  44. mancunius
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    JR, Can Mrs May ask for an extension of the Art. 50 deadline without first obtaining parliamentary agreement/ legislation?

    Because that’s her obvious next move.

    Reply She will need Parliamentary approval as it will need an amendment to both Acts withdrawing us from the EU

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

      and she will get it

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

      Mancunius, JR does not want to acknowledge that she could claim it to be within the scope of prerogative powers that she could exercise on behalf of the Queen.

      I asked which part of which Act would stop her doing that:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/09/10/exiting-the-eu-some-factual-background-to-where-we-now-are/#comment-959939

      but I got no answer.

      Reply The Art 50 was triggered by Act Of P so needs an Act of P to delay or cancel

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted September 20, 2018 at 7:48 am | Permalink

        That Act:

        https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2016-17/europeanunionnotificationofwithdrawal.html

        did no more than empower the Prime Minister to put in the notice; it did not even say that she had to put it in, let alone that having put it in she could not later revoke it, or seek to modify it by asking for an extension.

        “An Act to confer power on the Prime Minister to notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU”

        “1 Power to notify withdrawal from the EU

        (1) The Prime Minister may notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU.
        (2) This section has effect despite any provision made by or under the European Communities Act 1972 or any other enactment.”

        2 Short title

        This Act may be cited as the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017.”

        And that’s it, the whole Act.

        Reply You underestimate its constitutional importance. It shows the givt cannot use prerogative to remove a treaty

  45. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Still awaiting moderation … vile rubbish from anti-Brexit trolls is nodded through, bonce again this is still awaiting moderation. But I suppose I’m lucky that it hasn’t been vaporised like so many others of the comments I submit.

  46. Chris
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    So this is the latest ploy apparently by the May government: a second referendum threat unless Brexiters support Chequers (from Breitbart London quoting Melvyn Stride of May’s government).

    “A senior member of Theresa May’s government has threatened “pro-Brexit” MPs, saying that unless the Prime Minister’s plan for a “soft” exit from the bloc is supported in Parliament, there will be a second referendum.
    Financial Secretary to the Treasury Melvyn Stride (pictured, right) also implied his government could make further concessions to the bloc, saying they will “get a deal based around Chequers” on Sky News Wednesday….”

  47. Steve
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    A well chosen topic, JR.

    I must admit I was aghast to learn that Barnier now says technology is the solution to the NI border, while just recently he poo – poo’d the concept.

    Maybe he’s seen what he thinks is a good idea by someone else, and decided to pinch it for himself.

    You ask why the EU doesn’t keep it’s nose out of NI. The answer is because the EU, Barnier, Juncker et al, see this as a mechanism to compromise our sovereignty. A spanner in the works for want of better description.

    My sentiment is that if this is the best they can come up with to try and keep the kingpin in place then their position is weak.

    If I were a betting man I’d wager the EU is going to break apart. The french, Germans, and their Walloon side kicks know that without Britain the cracks will fast propagate and other nations will also leave.

    In my opinion possibly the likes of Greece, Poland and Hungary are candidates to follow suit.

    We should be threatening the EU back, by asserting that after brexit we might choose to covertly encourage certain countries to follow our lead. Then you’d find the likes of Juncker wanting to negotiate on our terms.

    We needed a leader prepared to go over there and get Barnier & Juncker by the scruff the first instance of any threats made against our country, as Mrs T would certainly have done.

    Look what we got instead. Boris was right, a white flag job.

  48. hefner
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    An interesting read on assets.publishing.service.gov.uk “EEA Migration on the UK: Final Report”, Sept.2018, 140p. The 45 points of the Executive Summary are on p. 8 to 14, and are unlikely to please the good Nigel and his followers.

  49. FranzB
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    International driving licenses😅

  50. Brexit Mythbuster
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    The Irish border is 310 miles long with 208 Border crossings, one for every 2.5km, almost half of them, 95 are between Monaghan and its three Northern neighbours, Fermanagh, Tyrone and Armagh. For you Brits, I would recommend some books on the Border, Peter Leary, Unapproved Routes: Histories of the Irish Border 1922-1972 and Darach MacDonald, Hard Border – Walking through a Century of Irish Partition.
    There are more than twice as many Border crossings in Monaghan alone as there are between Norway and Sweden, an international boundary much beloved of simplifying Brexiteers. If you also include unmapped routes sometimes no more than a plank of wood across a stream, Monaghan may even give the European Union’s entire eastern frontier a run for its money.
    Not long ago I went for a walk with my daughter Aine, when we met the A3 for the first time, an interesting statistic appeared beside a gateway, “Do not cross this field unless you can do it in 9 seconds” read the warning notice, because the bull can do it in 10! There was no sign of the bull, although inviting as the field looked, with the river Finn meandering through it, I wasn’t tempted. A bit further on, in an unintended joke, services offered by a local business included “alignment” the buzzword of Britain’s torturous Brexit negotiations. In this case, it was only car tyres they were offering to align.
    Near the outskirts of Clones we spotted three enterprising young fellas installing a heating oil pipeline through a hedge, clearly the days of using old milk tankers have long gone! With so many unofficial crossing points known only to locals anything can be smuggled with ease, how will the EU’s Mr Barnier sort it out is anyone’s guess, handing back our 6 counties might be the easiest, after all the demographics in the North are changing rapidly, what with Stormont collapsed over RHI etc, the Border issue may well just disappear overnight. The DUP-Tory love in will not last, eventually the DUP will get dumped when a majority UK government is elected.

  51. Ron Forrest
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    It is obvious that May cannot open her mouth without saying something that will damage the Conservative Party. Remember her outburst about the ‘nasty party’? And now instead of increasing the sale of council houses she tells the occupants that they should be proud of living off the state. As for her handling of Brexit… She must go – and quickly.

  52. Drachma
    Posted September 19, 2018 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    What should happen is as follows..the goods coming from Britain to NI that EU insists on checking should be sent through Dublin where checks can take place before delivery by road up over the border..problem solved

  53. behindthefrogs
    Posted September 20, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Why don’t we just have a border down the English Channel with Ireland on our side of the border? Having a border within the EU is after all no different from having a border within the UK which is hat they are asking of us.

  54. rose
    Posted September 20, 2018 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    NEW IMPROVED ANNEXATION! Safe, electronic, you won’t feel a thing.

    And bespoke to the Evil Empire too: when has another empire annexed a piece of territory and the original owner carried on paying for it?

    This is the dream reunification for Varadkar too: the South gets the North and Great Britain carries on paying.

    Only Mrs May and the civil servants could come up with this. It is worse than the Belfast Agreement. No use trying to pretend they didn’t: they got her up in the middle of the night to go over to Brussels and sign up to it in December.

    Chuck Chequers! Ditch the December Report!

  55. libertarian
    Posted September 20, 2018 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Dear Andy, Newmania, Rein, hans, Tabulazero, margaret howard etc

    Well well well. According to Handlesblatt Survey Europeans want more Europe but far LESS Brussels they really dont like the “management ” of the EU. I think you’ll find thats pretty much what most Brexiters thought too.

    https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/europeans-want-europe-less-brussels-964709

  56. Ron Olden
    Posted September 20, 2018 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    No sooner did Barnier come up with his positive words Tusk has shot it all down again.

    Is it any wonder why everyone in the World who has any dealings with the EU finds them so impossible to deal with. They have at at least 28 voices all saying different things and that without the various office staff weighing at at every juncture.

    Anyway, if the EU cannot agree the offer, then Hard Brexit it will be.

    And it’s remaining countries won’t get tariff free access to the UK for their £60 Billion Trade Surplus with us, the EU bureaucracy won’t get its’ £39 Billion Divorce Settlement, and the Republic of Ireland will be required by UK Law to introduce Customs Posts with Northern Ireland.

    Let’s see how that goes and whether ROI will want to stay in the EU on terms like that.

  • About John Redwood


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