The UK after Brexit

Freedom day is the day we leave the EU. It is one of those curious cul de sacs of history that the UK, a fiercely independent and democratic nation, spent 47 years with increasing shackles over our decisions in the EU. Like Gulliver, the UK found herself bound by more and more rules and regulations from Brussels, tied down by something UK voters were told was just a trading bloc. This so called common or single market was of course nothing less than a political Union in the making. The project of full economic, monetary, social and political integration was fully understood on the continent, but constantly denied by dishonest UK politicians. They were aware that UK voters were unlikely to sign up to the full scheme, so they pretended it was not happening.

Reality kept threatening to break through. Early skirmishes about whether Brussels should settle our labour laws or not were on party lines, with the left once in charge giving these issues away to the EU. The UK had a proud record of leading improvements in employment standards before we joined. Both major parties in the UK grasped that UK voters would not accept the abolition of the pound and the substitution of the Euro, so the UK negotiated an opt out from the biggest push so far for full union. There was an attempt to side step a common migration policy, but the EU found ways to require the UK to join them in a large part of their common borders regulations. Many UK voters disliked intensely the idea that they could no longer decide their money, their borders and their laws through UK elections and by lobbying their Members of Parliament. When they were given the chance to decide, they decided to leave the EU to take back control of their government.

Once we have left the UK can start to exercise her democratic rights again. The country that did so much to spread democracy around the world, provided the Mother of Parliaments, and had some of the earliest struggles to control the executive and create a proper democratic franchise, will need to learn again how to do things for herself through her own democratic institutions. It is true the UK did not distinguish herself by resisting the democratic forces of the Founding fathers of the USA. It is one of those ironies that those early Americans who championed the rights of the settlers did so from English precedents and from English political and philosophical writings. Today, as with the American revolution, the Mother of Parliaments at Westminster has to be taught a lesson in applying her own beliefs. Too many MPs and members of the House of Lords regret the decision of the people, and have sought to deny democracy her rights. They will have to accept that the UK is leaving the EU and will be better off from doing so.

So what we will we do with our freedoms? We will become a keen advocate of free trade globally, signing deals with those who share our vision of the power of free trade to spread and increase prosperity. We will liberate our fishing grounds from the Common Fisheries Policy, which has been unkind to our fish and to our local fishermen and women. We will put in place a migration policy that is fair to all corners of the world, eliminating the European preferences in the current system. We will be able to spend the large annual sum we currently send as tribute to Brussels on our own priorities at home. We will regain control of our tax system, permitting us to amend and change the system the EU has imposed on taxing transactions through a Value Added Tax.

I find the delays in getting out unacceptable and the fears expressed usually ludicrous. What part of “Leave” did the politicians not understand when they asked the people to decide? Why do they not see that spending our own money and making our own laws must be better, and should lead to greater prosperity for the country. The good news in all this is once again the people have proved to be more sensible than the political and administrative establishment who advise them and seek to control them.

Long live freedom. There is nothing to fear, and everything to welcome. I want my country to be self governing once again. Then if the politicians get it wrong, the people can kick them out and try with a new team. All the time we live under Brussels we have to accept the inflexibility and injustice of their laws.

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  1. Bob Dixon
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    I am looking forward to 29/3/2019. We will be free. Your post yesterday drew attention to the civil service and our parliaments having to be re educated. So the full benefits of being free will take many years. I am looking forward to the improvements as the years pass.

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:39 am | Permalink

      I listened yesterday to Gus O’Donnell on radio 4 defending the civil service in glowing terms. This after some MP’s criticism of Olly Robbbins (yet another Oxford PPE). I personally do not blame them that much, I mainly blame May/Hammond and most of the ministers. It is after all their job to ensure these ‘servants’ follow the democratic will. Having said that the senior civil service do have a largely wrongheaded ‘group think’ almost to a man I find. They want more government, more taxation, more regulations, a dire monopoly NHS/Education system, more and more people with often worthless degrees, more climate alarmism and more (usually absurd and expensive) ‘renewables projects’, more open door immigration and to be fully subservient to the EU.

      They also generally have little grasp of engineering, science, competitive business, sound economics, energy or indeed normal reality for the average person or family.

      O’Donnell himself supports a very liberal immigration policy, saying in 2011 that “when I was at the Treasury I argued for the most open door possible to immigration … I think it’s my job to maximise global welfare not national welfare.” So there you are with his position.

      They suffer like the BBC from exactly the same wrong header ‘group think’ on these issues.

      • Lifelogic.
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:58 am | Permalink

        Surely the civil service can justifiably be blamed for not insisting they also prepared for the Brexit leave outcome. This was gross negligence by the Cameron government and senior civil servants. It was surely a clear duty on them to prepare for either outcome.

        • rose
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

          The MP, Mark Francois, who drew attention to Ollie Robbins being pro EU, was an historian himself, like our Mr R, and a soldier.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:43 pm | Permalink


        It would be rather nice to think that they exist to serve the people, not the people serving the system they devise, which seems to be the real problem !

    • Hope
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      JR,mformer intelligence writing open letter in the Times paper today saying Robbins covertly working from Sept 2017 to keep U.K. under EU control for parts of defense and security. There needs to be an investigation ASAP. Robbins removed from office until investigation complete. This is our security which should be the govts No. 1 priority. The investigation will need to include May as Robbins works directly for her.

      We have previously seen the dishonest KitKat policy to hide ties and costs from public swept under the carpet. This cannot go on. May needs to be made answerable.

      I urge you and other members of parliament to make this investigation happen as a matter of national security. It needs to be substantiated whether the allegation from a former intelligence chief is correct.

      • Richard
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

        Quite something when: “ex-MI6 boss Sir Richard Dearlove … accused Mr Robbins of “covertly working to lock UK defence and security under EU control after Brexit”… this would “risk fatally compromise our “Five Eyes” intelligence alliance.” He said: “It is by far the worst aspect of the Chequers deal and hitherto has not been made clear to the public.”
        etc ed

        • Lifelogic
          Posted October 19, 2018 at 5:08 am | Permalink


      • Richard
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

        Sir Richard Dearlove was also sufficiently worried to co-author this article: “First, that the ‘deep and special partnership’ that the Prime Minister would like with the EU after Brexit is not on offer: the EU offers subordination or nothing and all the facts are laid out to support that.
        “Second, some civil servants are clearly seeking to lock Britain into a Hotel California Brexit from Hell … Brockbank’s remarks are in the Appendix so all readers may judge for themselves.
        “…Brussels sees its best interest in doing us harm. So no deal was always better that ANY deal. And that will not change.”
        This introduced the Hotel California article: that included the full KitKat tape transcripts in the Appendix.

    • Peter
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:33 am | Permalink

      It all seems to be getting close to decision time. I still have no idea what will happen. I do know that May is secretive and deceitful. She might have another crafty trick up her sleeve.

      Barnier could possibly string things out another year. We will see shortly.

      • John Hatfield
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

        May and her team. She is not alone in this conspiracy.

    • Mitchel
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      Even assuming we do get out we won’t be “free”;we’ll still be taking orders from the USA and the Saudis(although having two masters rather than three would be a start).We won’t be free unless we learn to live within our means and become more self-sufficient-nationally and individually.

      • Figel Narage
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:45 am | Permalink

        Fracking and development of nuclear power will help reduce our reliance on the Middle-East. These should be national priorities post-Brexit.

    • Oxiana321
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

      I note today a really excellent article in the DT: “Here are ten reasons besides the EU’s bullying behaviour – that prove Brexit is right”.

      The one piece of enlightening text that never gets repeated enough is presented in this article. If there were no other reason to want to leave, the comments by Jean Monnet are enough to clinch it for me. This staggering insight in to the modus operandi of the EU project should be enough to sway anyone with half a brain and a care for democracy.

      A whole range of European leaders have made abundantly clear the EU’s political agenda, such as Jean Monnet:
      “Europe’s nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation”

    • notachance
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

      Well I hear Nigel Farage today calling for a Canada plus style deal with If we even have a chance..but the thing is we didn’t vote for a Canada..we just voted to leave

      • Caterpillar
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:51 pm | Permalink


        Canada plus is a free trade agreement, so UK would leave EU, Chequers essentially follows all EU rules. One is compatible with vote the other isnt. Canada plus would need to have rules of origin for goods flowing to EU so that if/when UK benefits from (and treats world more fairly with) lower tariffs UK imports don’t directly export to the EU. The supposed disadvantage to Canada plus would be more friction snarling Dover, however this would mean some imports would shift to longer time shipping to Northern ports, more time on ships giving time for ‘paperwork’ to be completed prior to docking. Some argue that as slower this would mean inefficiency c.f. Dover, however others argue this would be greener (more ship, less road), more compatible with JIT (although slower more dependable and more en route storage) and would help rebalance the UK economy towards the North … This of course should have been planned for and readied. Back and forth supply chains with EU would be within rules of origin so could continue, lower/zero tariffs for alternative world suppliers could be introduced, manufacturers in UK would just need to be careful with rules of origin if combining RoW and EU suppliers.

  2. Duncan
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    With Theresa May as PM of this country the UK will not be leaving the EU in March 2019.


    • libertarian
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink



      The Political Establishment all love more government and less democracy

      Norway voted TWICE not to join so their govt shackled them in a different way

      France voted NON to the EU constitution and were made to vote again

      Ireland voted No and were made to vote again

      Holland voted NEE and were made to vote again

      The Greeks voted against and had their govt changed for them

      The Brexit camp in this country needs to radically up their game politically and grow a pair

      • Steve
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:16 pm | Permalink


        Absolutely correct.

        Most people don’t realise the EU does that trick often. They believe in democracy only when it’s on their side.

        Hence why the remainers think we should have a second referendum… get the result they want, with a bit of manipulation during the process.

        Anyone who buys into this second referendum business really should bow their heads in shame for being so ridiculously naive, and thick with it.

        • L Jones
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

          A second attempt so that they can get the result they want…. a bit like the Germans trying again in 1939?

      • forthurst
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

        I notice yet again JR talks about a ‘fair’ migration policy; we do not need immigration especially of unassimilables. What we need is better targeted education system to ensure that shortfalls in essential activities are rectified even if the downside is a shortfall in experts in Cultural Marxist indoctrination.

        Furthermore, we need to move rapidly to an electoral system that ensures that never again will an elected parliament be so manifestly out of kilter with the voice of the people even if the downside is that the Tory Party sinks into irrelevance together with the unpatriotic collection of troughers of which it is mainly composed.

        • Mick Bolton
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:11 am | Permalink

          ”even if the downside is a shortfall in experts in Cultural Marxist indoctrination” … That would be a ‘downside? 😉

      • margaret howard
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

        In each case their objections were taken on board and they were satisfied to vote again. That’s democracy in action. More than we get in this country.

        • L Jones
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

          Tripe, Ms Howard.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:07 am | Permalink

          You say some odd things Margaret but none as odd as this depressing statement by you on the determination of the EU to maintain its plan to create a superstate by stealth.
          Your words read like something a 1960s USSR bureaucrat would say.
          Democracy in action…..keep them voting until you get the result you want.

        • Know-Dice
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

          In each case the EU promised to change and did they?

          No, I don’t think so…

        • libertarian
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

          margaret howard

          If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Totally gullible

          They changed the name on the document and fiddled with some of the wording and allegedly offered a different referendum each time

          I would be totally behind another referendum as long as the questions are

          1) Should we think about rejoining in 50 years time

          2) Never , ever think about rejoining

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      I think you are right and certainly not in any meaningful way. Worse still we might have to suffer Corbyn/SNP for many years. She seems determined to follow John Major and bury the party yet again.

    • Hope
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

      Nothing agreed until everything agreed is not true even though May claimed it again in parliament this week. She made it clear the Withdrawal Agreement would be legally binding the future trade deal is not. It is a political declaration. Therefore, the phrase is a deceit. I seem to recall Davis admitting any future trade deal was not binding and it was inter alia a leap of faith. To give £100 billion without any legal binding future trade deal is stupid in the extreme. But that is what May emphasised again in parliament this week! Your MPs accepted it!

    • bigneil
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:59 am | Permalink

      We have as much chance of completely leaving the EU with her as PM as Anton du Beke has of winning Strictly while partnering Anne Widdecombe.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:07 am | Permalink


    • Adam
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

      Re-assess your prediction on 1 April.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

      She will do her utmost to keep us under the thumb of the EU as far as she possibly can, if not through the EU treaties then through other treaties.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:06 pm | Permalink


      Got it in one

  3. Len Pratt
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Freedom to lose frictionless trade with the EU! Freedom to lose all the trade deals the EU has with the rest of the world! Freedom to see inward investment collapse! Freedom to see dark shadows fall once again over Northern Ireland! Freedom to see recruitment of nurses and doctors to the NHS collapse! Freedom to see a brain drain from our colleges and Universities! But, yeah, blue passports. Made in France.

    • Figel Narage
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:20 am | Permalink

      Wrong on every count. Bore off with your negativity.

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:29 am | Permalink

      If you like the EU so much, why haven’t you gone there already?
      You’ve had 2 years to emigrate. What’s holding you back?

      Personally, I much prefer to live in a country that’s able to make its own laws, control its own borders, and where the democratic vote has meaning.

    • sm
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      Ah yes, would that we could stay within an organisation where Italy, Spain and Greece have seen their poverty levels increase and their youth unemployment soar; where Poland, Austria, Hungary and Sweden see provocative political parties grow; where entirely forbidden budget surpluses grow in Germany without restriction; where ever-closer political union is the clearly stated objective of those in charge – and those who aspire to be in charge…..

      ……no thanks.

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

      Freedom to trade with whomever we wish to and on terms we mutually agree with them. Freedom to choose how many doctors and nurses we train or recruit from overseas anywhere in the world. Freedom is priceless, but also it is the best from the economy too in the end.

      • Lifelogic.
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink

        Free to be nimble and quick in adjusting to new opportunities, freedom to compete in the World, to have a bonfire of the hugely damaging EU and UK red tape, to cut energy costs and green crap, to compete on tax levels, to move to easy hire and fire that makes everyone better off. Above all the freedom to elect someone sensible to replace May and has the authority and power to move to the above agenda that would make almost everyone (but a few bureaucrats) better off. A restoration of real democracy, but let us hope they do not choose the Corbyn/SNP route to disaster. Even if they do he can and will be removed quite quickly.

      • Lifelogic.
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:55 am | Permalink

        Freedom day should have been 23rd or 24th perhaps of June 2018 had Cameron prepared for either outcome and served the notice as he promises instead of just cowardly abandoning the ship.

        A perfect day for a freedom bank holiday as one of the longest days for the year as well.

    • libertarian
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      Len Pratt

      Living up to your name there then

      Our economy is 86% services , there is NO single market in services

      You mean the trade deals the EU DOES NOT have with the two biggest customers USA & China

      The NI border is a non issue and twerps like you falling for a political trick are naive

      Less than 4% of ALL NHS staff are from overseas and of that the two biggest suppliers are India & Thailand , this is going to be a shock but neither of them are in the EU

      A brain drain you say ? The UK has 4 universities in the worlds top 10 other EU countries … er zero

      A brain drain you say….but all the remainers on here keep telling us that no one can travel, live or work anywhere else once we are out of the EU

      Couldn’t care less about the colour of passports but do care deeply that the ignorant, gullible and naive keep trying to overturn the largest democratic vote in this country history

    • Anonymous
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      Alas there was frictionless crime, frictionless welfare abuse, frictionless competition for housing and services, frictionless competition for jobs, frictionless introduction of laws from outside…. a frictionless route from the Med.

      The British public were absolutely fine with frictionless *trade* when that’s all it was and between only half a dozen nations of roughly equal development.

      • Adam
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

        Well-expressed comment, Anonymous.

      • Andy
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

        Your comments sums up Brexit.

        Ill-informed, anti-foreigner, fact free ranting.

        Brexit is not about trade.

        It is about a dislike of foreigners.

        (Oh – and your frictionless route from the Med…. most of the people crossing the Med are refugees. They are not from the EU. They do not come here).

        • Anonymous
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

          “Fact free ranting”
          Pot calling kettle.

          The most fact free ranter on this site happens to be a Remainer and even a fellow Remainer said that of you only yesterday.

        • rick hamilton
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

          You are right for once, Brexit is not about trade.

          It is about a dislike of unelected foreigners telling us what to do at vast expense to our taxpayers.

          I think you will find that about 170 countries around the world think the same way.

    • agricola
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

      Inspiringly named

    • L Jones
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Facebook wisdom again, Mr Pratt?

      Can we expect to see your comments here again when you re proved wrong? Say, in a year’s time? Or will you be too busy campaigning to re-join the EU?

    • Edward2
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      Cheer up Len it might never happen
      You lefties love exclamation marks.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      Explain why more people are still coming to the UK than leaving, even from the EU.

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      Is it frictionless though Len?
      Yesterday I discovered the EU wants to bill us for £2bn in duty charges for undeclared imports from China? How did that happen within the EU, who is importing goods without declaring the correct EU duties and taxes? How do the EU parliament know this and the UK government didn’t know this was going on? This is not the little people doing this we are charged these taxes before they’re delivered, is it the corporates and which ones? They should pay any fine not the taxpayers.

      Small unregistered for VAT businesses in the UK I discovered recently have to put EU duties and taxes (VAT) onto their products if they export to the EU causing extra friction for them.

      The EU charged us around £1bn for taxes we don’t collect on prostitution and drugs since 2014!

      You can’t just export into Europe, just as you still have to show your red passport and wait in queues in France, Germany etc. to come and go as a person in the EU it is not fully frictionless. This blue passport is just silly propaganda, I believe the EU and the UK will still want to trade with each other whatever the politicians say.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:23 am | Permalink

      Inflation falling
      Unemployment falling

      Whatever happened to the massive recession predicted by the Remain campaign if merely voted to leave?

      Most nurses come from outside the EU. Nothing would stop us recruiting nurses from the EU. Freedom to chose our own immigration policy.

      We trade easily with countries from all over the world. And the EU has very few free trade agreements with major counntries. Freedom to have our own trade policies based on our own needs, scrap all import duties if we wish to. Freedom to sign all our own trade deals as well as inheriting the existing ones with Japan, South Korea and Canada.

      The only dark clouds over Ireland are the ones that come across the Altlantic. Freedom from the EU interfering with internal UK politics.

      Brain drain from our colleges and Universities? Free movement and most of them can only speak English.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

      The EU will not maintain the current status quo…it’s going be expanded shorty to 34 countries? most of those will be net recipients of EU funding, add to that loss of the UK’s rebate and further dilution of the UK’s voting power via Qualified Majority Voting.

      Either we accept to be under the thumb of the EU for ever more or go our own way.

      And the majority of the UK said in 2016 that they want freedom.

    • Steve
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

      Len Pratt

      Project fear has you.

    • John Hatfield
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

      Freedom to get our £100 billion a year back along with our sovereignty.

  4. Mark B
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    Our host should be smelling the coffee not putting mind altering substances in it. Sorry Mr.Redwood MP sir, but I and I am sure many people here do not share your optimism.

    We will be leaving the EU in name only, thanks to your leader and the Civil Service.

  5. Old Albion
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    If only Mrs May had written that………………………

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      She is like a Darlek endlessly repeating strong and stable, strong and stable, Brexit meant Brexit (in name only of course) ……

      A vision less, disingenuous, lefty dope, wrong on almost everything and a total electoral and economic liability too. Get rid of her and tax to death Hammond now.

  6. Roy Grainger
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    It seems Labour have recruited John Bercow as an extra vote to thwart Brexit. Hard to imagine public trust in politicians being any lower than it is today.

  7. Adrian Lloyd
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    Sadly, this vision of freedom is complete fantasy. Without a change of policy the Government is effectively committing us to remain under EU control. This parliament has conspired to reverse the referendum result and looks like succeeding.

    Please could you explain, John, how we actually achieve the vision you have set out and that so many of us want.

  8. mark riley
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    Wonderful prose Dr Redwood but will it ever happen? Far more likely the duplicitous Ms May will bounce us into a second referendum that will be so rigged as to guarantee that your bucolic vision will never come to pass. The globalist/establishment fix is already in, and sadly, it is the Conservative party that will deliver it. History shall not be kind to the treacherous May but neither to the prevaricating, cowardly(?) ‘Leave’ elements, especially those within the Cabinet, who allow this to happen.

    • Peter Wood
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:11 am | Permalink

      Mark, it certainly looks that way. I find it hard to believe that the PM is going back to the same 27, who summarily dismissed and humiliated her and our Country, now in bended knee. How sad and pathetic we must appear to that arrogant band!

      There is no alternative, Mrs May must go.

      • ian wragg
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

        But Peter, May won’t go as John well knows. She is there thanks to the post democratic followers of Common Purpose and Bilderbergers who really hold power.
        She is akin to the captain of a ship heading for the rocks when she orders full speed ahead and the band strike up together with the dancers.
        For the first time in my lifetime we have a situation where after the biggest vote in history, the losing side dictate terms.
        Leaving the EU we are not.

        • L Jones
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

          Yes, Mr Wragg. People may scoff at ”conspiracy theorists” but it’s enough to turn you into one, the way Mrs May has conducted this process of leaving the EU.

          There should not have been such ”negotiations” fraught with the opportunity for EU obfuscation – we had voted to leave. Trade and the little stuff should have come later. We should have freed ourselves of their tentacles as soon as we’d voted to do so. They were never going actually to WANT us to go – obviously, they like our money. They sure as hell don’t seem to like US.

          Why on EARTH didn’t the right-thinking ones in our Government get things moving at once in 2016? Why on EARTH did they allow May a chance to muddy the waters, and turn them into a dense, impenetrable, sticky, murky quagmire that the ”negotiators” are now having to wade through?

    • Iain Moore
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:12 am | Permalink

      What happened over the weekend has still not been explained. Where we got tweets from Brussels that a deal was about to be done, that the 27 Ambassadors had been called in, and Raab was flying over there, only for it all to go pear shaped when Raab got there. The odd newspaper report has suggested that our negotiators, I presume they are referring to Olly Robbins , overreached his authority, and agreed to stuff for which he had no right to make. If we have a negotiator over there who we can’t trust, I don’t understand why he is still there.

  9. Nig l
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    Nice in theory but the EC is desperate not to have HMS UK, a low tax, low regulation, competitive aircraft carrier floating off their mainland and our so called leaders and civil servants, being compliant, are doing their work for them. So I am still expecting a tautological sell out.

    Nothing more sums up their contempt for us ‘sensible people’ as you put it, on both sides of the debate, by the pejorative ‘populist’’ people that supposedly don’t understand and how dare they question their superiors, that think they do.

    I saw yesterday, Anna Soubry and David Lammy last week claim to know more about the Good Friday Agreement and the border issues, than Lord Trimble, Nobel laureate. Maybe she values my Pinocchio award more.

    Will someone tell them how ridiculous that is and destroys their credibility on anything else they may say. Actually that went years ago! Whatever they are on, they should take more water with it.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

      The EU are far from desperate because it can safely ignore the UK (or any other country that is not happy within) as long as it is within a strict no deal scenario. That unsinkable aircraft carrier will have to deal with over 60 million people who will pay the price for being on that particular vessel when its leaders decide to cut off the most efficient supply channels. To paraphrase someone who does not deserve ho have his way either: brexit for the few, not the many.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:35 am | Permalink

        Rien, you are now claiming Europe will “cut us off” from “supply channels” and therefore you are saying they will get together and refuse to sell to us or buy from us.
        I’m used to your Project Fear 2.0 claims but you are now being totally ridiculous.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 10:31 am | Permalink

          No, I meant that the leaders of the UK are about to do so. No one will get together to sell to you (but once ration ing starts in the UK HM’s Import Board may allocate hard currency only to priority imports. Nice try Edward2, but pse read what I write.

          • libertarian
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink


            I’ve read what you’ve written. Its total cobblers. For someone of your ahem “experience” your lack of understanding of the basics of trade are quite laughable

          • Edward2
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

            I quoted what you said.
            Good try at backtracking.
            But it fails.

      • Jiminyjim
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:42 am | Permalink

        Rien Huizer, I wonder if you’ve been following what’s been said about this? If you carefully read what has been coming out of the EU, there is a genuine fear of how much damage a really free UK could do to the EU. Every single thing they’ve done and said since before the referendum underlines that they will move heaven and earth to prevent the UK from competing on an equal footing

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

          I read several English, one Irish, two German and one French paper next to the Dutch papers. Tkle a casual look at sites like Politico, Huffington, Breitbart and the varous versions of Standard too. Subscriptions to Monde, FAZ, Guardian (not officially subscription) NYT, The Australian and the Japan Times. In addition to that, the Economist, Der Spiegel, various publications of the American Economic Association. A reasonable spread of points of view I suppose.

          Maybe you should read a little outside your bubble. Next to our Host’s site maybe Chris Grayling’s Brexit Blog, diametrically opposed to this. Will do no harm.
          Any questions?

          • libertarian
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:33 pm | Permalink


            I have a question, as you are so well read how come you are missing the message?

      • Bill Smith
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

        Far from desperate? You don’t know HOW desperate because you don’t know the size of the hole UK’s departure will leave in the EU economy. Thanks to the UK you’re enjoying a money-glut, it’s not going to last much longer, so while it lasts you should make the most of:
        UK membership fee.
        £1.6 bn per week trade deficit,
        £15bn per year EU income from UK’s CET payments,
        £12bn per year from UK fishing grounds,
        Access to fish from UK Quota’s for 1,400 EU fishing vessels.
        UK jobs/benefits/housing/schools/services for returning citizens.
        Bale-out of EU banks.
        Interim top-up’s to the EU budget.
        UK shareholding of the ECB
        UK shareholding of EBRD – indirectly EU but we’ll still pull out.
        UK shareholding of the EIB – indirectly EU but we’ll still pull out.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

          Now this is a nice list of facts and fiction:
          – the EU will certainly find away around that UK “hole” That 39 billion (over several years) is a mere rounding error for the EU (as an economy) but a considerable share of the EU (as an organisation with a very small budget: around 1% of EU GDP) However that means that some programs will be cut and or contributions raised.

          I reckon that the EU/UK trade deficit will not shrink because many EU exports to the UK will continue regardless of the trade regime. No one will sell petrochemicals etc below world market prices and transport from the continent is cheap. The fishing number looks pretty suspicious, would like to know the source and composition. UK jobs. Unless the UK wants a severe supply shock, it will have to keep foreign workers. Unless you want UKIP land to be populated by immigrants from Africa and Asia (or Russians), you will continue to see skilled EU workers. I cannot recall EU banks being bailed out by the EU or the UK. On the contrary, EU banks like xxx have invested in UK banks at risk of insolvency. The UK shareholdings in entities like the EIB are mainly of a non-funded nature. The funding obligation remains as long as UK approves facilities are outstanding. No one contests the latter.

      • David Price
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

        I would not assume the EU is incapable of irrational and/or hostile actions but are you seriously suggesting the EU will blockade the UK?

        In any case much of the meat, veg and food I buy doesn’t come from the EU. Mushrooms have proven a bit tricky but I imagine the supermarkets will get the message soon enough.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 10:54 am | Permalink

          If you’ve read my post, it is the leaders of the insinkable aircraft carrier that I suggest will cut off supply, not the EU. You are on that vessel, I guess. So you may have to argue with your leaders, not the EU.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

        And the EU can ignore Article 8 TEU, just as in the past it has ignored other parts of its own law, and not seek any special relationship with the UK to help establish an area of prosperity and good neighbourliness founded on the values of the Union, blah blah blah … if we had a government which was on our side and not the EU’s side it would be pointing that out.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 10:58 am | Permalink

          @ Dennis Cooper,

          Even your usually meticulous reading led you astray here, I was suggesting that the Uk, not the EU would be cutting supply, or at least making trade more difficult. The EU simply follows its rules (and maybe imperfectly, but that article you mention is what the Americans call motherhood and apple pie . Look inside, not out pse.

      • Anonymous
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

        So Britain can just go *pop* without dragging the rest of the EU (western) economy with it ?

        Don’t be silly.

        I fear May’s gentle slope (during which the EU can gradually fleece us without harm to themselves) than a ‘cliff edge’ which is a serious threat to French and German economies.

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink


          • libertarian
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:34 pm | Permalink



  10. Helen Taylor
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    Your right John, what part of leave do they not understand. This comment of Tusk to extend the negotiation period for me is totally unacceptable they have had two years to get their act together. Any attempt by Mrs May to extend anything regards the leaving period, I sincerely hope that the politicians will vehemently vote down. The frustrations that are being felt by the leave voters. The majority of people want it over and done with. Just leave and go to WTO rules and lets get on with it. The EU is not going to speed up negotiations, the only way they will speed up is if we leave on WTO rules. That would surely help them focus. NO DEAL NO PROBLEM

    • Iain Moore
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

      When you see what has been achieved, 4 years to build the 747 from scratch, 8 years to put a man on the moon, 5 years for Churcil to win WW11, 2 years is more than enough time to negotiate our way out of the EU , 4 years with implementation period is an excessive amount of time, and to even think of adding more time onto our leaving the EU is ridiculous. All this dither and delay is wasting time, money and opportunity, with the loss of opportunity the most scandalous waste.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:59 am | Permalink


      Nothing is easier than granting you your wish, but maybe your government believes you should be protected against your own instincts? The EU are not trying to keep the UK in. Not at all. They want an orderly exit. That the EU wants to dominate the UK (or should I say England, the other regions seem to have saner minds) is a myth created by some politicians and media. The EU members would like to trade with the UK but do not want it to belong to their club. However the termns on which that trade could happen need to be negotiated and there the EU members are strictly concerned with their own interests. No freebies.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

        Can we just have the same deals that dozens of other non EU countries already have with the EU.
        Deals where these non EU countries sell into Europe yet retain control their borders, make their own laws, manage their own financial decisions and make their own taxation decisions.

      • eleanor justice
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

        Well Rien Huizer Why don’t they throw us out then,(if nothing is easier)And as for not trying to keep us in you are joking of course

      • Steve
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

        Rien Huizer

        “No freebies.”

        Britain did not charge the European countries for their liberation from unelected dictators.

        Were it not for Britain, Europe would have been condemned to enslavement.

        We did not charge for D Day and the loss of life on the Normandy beaches and elsewhere.

        Since joining the EEC, as it was, we’ve had nothing but disrespect and foreign laws sneakily replacing our own and with the aim of; dumbing down our country, brainwashing the youth, forcing us to get less for paying more, stitching up our industry with baloney environmental regs, and using our country as a dump for everything the French don’t want and can’t be bothered to send back to country of origin.

        So when you say; ‘no freebies’ can you see the problem here ?

        • Rien Huizer
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

          Britain did not liberate Europe by itself. The US did most of the heavy lifting. No freebies means the EU does not owe the UK anything. The UK owes the EU, as agreed by your government December last year.

          • Edward2
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:12 am | Permalink

            Do you ever stop to consider how a provocative statement like this hardens the determination of people in the UK to leave the EU and become once more an independent nation?

          • libertarian
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:40 pm | Permalink


            “Britain did not liberate Europe by itself”

            True, the Dutch helped… oh no they didn’t they surrendered The French helped… ah nope they surrendered, Belgians? hands up straight away, Spain, they joined the German army The Italians Oh ignore that … The UK and commonwealth allies fought for two years until the Americans joined us in liberating you from fascism and you’ve all spent the last 70 years trying to bring fascism back to Europe.

            I dont normally mention the war as its not really relevant to this debate but as Edward2 says your statement was provocative, stupid and plain wrong

    • acorn
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

      Just dropped in to say the USA has just blackballed the UK at the 46 nation WTO Government Procurement Agreement (GPA) meeting. So much for the special relationship.

      “The U.S. joined other World Trade Organization members in stalling the U.K.’s bid to stay in a $1.7 trillion public procurement alliance, according to three officials familiar with the process. Britain, which will lose its access to the group after leaving the European Union in March, will try again next month to reach an agreement.

      Members of the 46-nation accord couldn’t reach a consensus on admitting Britain to the WTO Government Procurement Agreement, during a Wednesday meeting in Geneva, said the three officials, who asked not to be identified because discussions are private. Failure to rejoin the pact could prevent U.K. companies from bidding on government contracts in member nations, including the $837 billion U.S. market.”

      Also; the UK’s “cut and paste” of current EU Tariff Rate Quotas, it submitted recently to the WTO, are running into some opposition. The WTO vultures are circling. The UK is much smaller than the EU and, has a high dependency on importing basic life support commodities. Life could get expensive post Brexit.

      • libertarian
        Posted October 18, 2018 at 6:29 pm | Permalink


        The Donald, it is funny how he triggers the left

        ‘The European Union is possibly as bad as China, only smaller.’ Donald Trump.

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted October 19, 2018 at 11:52 am | Permalink


          your rudeness is unnecessary

  11. Denis Cooper
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    The Guardian reports that Donald Tuck wants Theresa May to come up with a “creative solution” to the largely fabricated problem of the Irish land border:

    “EU: May must deliver ‘creative solution’ to save Brexit summit”

    In fact Theresa May and her euromaniac sidekick Olly Robbins have already exhibited too much creativity, but within the bounds of the EU’s own single market ideology.

    If they had been willing and able to think outside that conventional EU box they would have gone to the core of the problem, which is how to prevent unwanted goods crossing the border from Northern Ireland into the Republic, and so into the EU Single Market as a whole, without the EU having to erect barriers on its side of the border.

    A practical problem solved more than two decades ago for the border between Switzerland and Liechtenstein by a rather simple legal fix, as reported by the FT back in May, when UK officials were said to be examining that specific case and the general concept of “parallel marketability”:

    “One senior Whitehall official described it as “a very interesting idea”, with relevance to the effort to avoid a hard Northern Ireland border. “It is a good answer in theory,” said the official. “We need to look at how it would work in practice.””


    • stred
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      Well, one creative solution for Donald would be for the EU to forget about installing a new electronic customs post on borders with non-EU countries that are called the UK, clearly shown above and due in just over a year. Perhaps he could get the Irish customs, who will charge 7E for a 3 month visa, to report anyone that the Irish don’t want in, but have to because they have been given an EU passport, to the NI customs so that they can be picked up in NI. Personally, rather than pay them 7E if I wanted B and B or visit friends in Eire, I would go over the border the back way and pay cash. But by then the IRA might be in charge, so tourism would have to go the same way as farming when they veto a deal. Surely, the commisioners can think of a creative solution to their own problem. They are paid enough.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

        Ooooh, we can’t have anything like that on the island of Ireland, that would imply that there was a border …

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      The problem is Denis that they need an excuse for it not to work. Your solution is fine, but only for those who wish to hear it, and May and her cohort do not. Frankly Mrs May, her geography degree and creativity do not sit well together. Experienced civil servants however, with their PPEs, Classics and History degrees will find numerous ways to creatively run rings round her. That’s why Tusk asks for creative solutions- he’s basically taking the Micky out of May in favour of the ideas he knows can only come from the civil servants. Sadly she’s too daft to realise it.

      Oh for a scientist, engineer or mathematician in the room.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      I’ve just seen an Irish MEP on TV saying:

      “There is no easy answer”

      And because there is no easy answer the fine brains across the EU institutions and its member state governments will need more time to solve the problem, so maybe there should be another year added to the agreed fifteen months of the oxymoronic standstill or status quo “transition period” when nothing will change.

      Why just another year? It took 358 years to solve the problem of Fermat’s Last Theorem, and the problem of the Irish land border – that elusive border which simultaneously does and does not exist – is at least as difficult.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

        Read “twenty one months” for “fifteen months”.

        • Mick B
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

          O/T Sorry to go back over old ground but the French Government has published its draft No Deal law on website of French Senate:

          A withdrawal of the United Kingdom to the European Union without agreement would mean a restoration of the formalities of controls on goods and passengers in and out of the United Kingdom.
          It would also mean a restoration of veterinary and phytosanitary controls at the borders of the Union European to pets alive, plant, and products of animal and plant origin from the United Kingdom, or coming from other third countries but transiting through the United Kingdom.

          Now if I remember rightly you said there would be no delays to our exports after a no deal Brexit. Still sure?

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 8:53 am | Permalink

            You do not remember rightly.

        • rose
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

          But anyway, it is their problem, of their own making, not ours.

          • Angry
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 5:31 am | Permalink

            That’s a relief, rose! So when our exports of vegetables, meat and fish sit waiting to be checked, going rotten and unsaleable, so costing our economy billions in lost export trade, that is THEIR problem. Phew!

          • Edward2
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

            Ridiculous comment “angry”
            There are no delays with perishables arriving here in the UK from all over the world.
            Vehicles and warehouses are temperature controlled to keep such goods cold.

          • libertarian
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:45 pm | Permalink


            No wonder you’re angry , you have no idea how trade works .

      • sm
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

        Denis, perhaps the Irish border question is more like Schrodinger’s Cat – both deal and alive????

        • sm
          Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

          Sorry, that should read ‘dead’ – got distracted.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

          And we know how difficult it was to sort that one out!

  12. oldtimer
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    Agreed 100%. These are the reasons I voted leave. But we are not out yet.

    One question. The BBC states that May agreed the backstop last December. I thought the parts that were agreed were highlighted in green. The backstop agreement was not highlighted in green. Furthermore the EU itself drafted the words “Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”. So what is the evidence that the UK government has “agreed” the backstop?

    • Man of Kent
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

      Absolutely .

      On the backstop , I and I think yourself , were warning of the dangers of the of the border ‘agreement ‘ . Even if not legal it was morally tantamount to giving our word and should not have happened .

      I remember asking how we could get out of this predicament .

      The answer from our host was that ‘Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed ‘

      The reality now is that every UK concession has been pocketed as a done deal and every pressure is then brought to bear to squeeze the last drops out of us .

      We are willing participants in this ‘negotiation ‘ ratchet.

      Shame on May , Hammond, Raab , Gove et al .

    • Fishknife
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      “Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”
      Keep kicking the can Mrs. May.
      163 days to go.

    • ian wragg
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      Not only did May accept the EU inspired backstop, she immediately instructed oily robbins to pursue it which resulted in the Chequers Agreement. May says it will never be implemented, that’s because her agreement means staying in the Customs Union and Single Market permanently.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

      “PM statement on EU negotiations: 11 December 2017”

      “This part of the report we agreed on Friday, like the rest of it, is also subject to the general reservation that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.”

      “Of course, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.”

      But then those were just words that issued from her mouth at the time and worth no more than other words such as:

      “Fourth, the whole of the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, will leave the EU customs union and the EU single market.”

      She’s a liar and a cheat, unfit to hold public office, and it’s time she went.

  13. Richard1
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    It was quite clear at the time that Mrs May’s December cave in simply fudged the non issue of the Irish border and it was always clear it would be used by the EU to achieve its objective of keeping the UK in the single market and the customs union against the threat of a land grab for Northern Ireland. (BTW can anyone think of a more flagrant breach of the Northern Ireland peace agreement than separating Ulster from the UK without the consent of its people? Irish ministers should be challenged on this).

  14. Kevin
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    JR writes: “Once we have left the UK can start to exercise her democratic rights again.”; and,
    So what we will we do with our freedoms? We will [do X, Y, Z]….”

    Some of the policies listed above are an inevitable outcome of the decision to leave. Others, however, have yet to be decided democratically. We would have to wait and see what the people want to do about those.

  15. agricola
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    The inference in your article is that politicians are not entirely adequate when decisions such as Brexit arise. Why, well they are too wedded to party political matters to be able to see the big picture. They disdain and deride the electorate when big decisions have to be made, but are happy to kiss their babies at election time. Frankly I have little time for most of them, a bunch of inadequates who have been bought by the party and the fat rewards of Westminster. Rewards way beyond their talents in the real world.

    Democracy needs to move forward, towards the people. That is what the word implies. Referendums on demand of one million people should be the norm, not a gift in the hands of a PM. The results of such should be binding in law, irrespective of the opinions of who may be in power at the time. The rag bag of politicians were only too willing to hand over power and responsibility to an unelected quango in Brussels, so reducing their status to that of local councillors. Are they fearful of the work and responsibility of running the country alone, or would they appreciate the help of the electorate from time to time.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      I agree 100%.

    • Steve
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 5:00 pm | Permalink


      “The inference in your article is that politicians are not entirely adequate when decisions such as Brexit arise. Why, well they are too wedded to party political matters to be able to see the big picture.”

      Nah, they don’t see themselves as being the job to serve the Realm or it’s people. Not even with something as serious as brexit. If they did, we would be out of the EU now.

      It’s all about lobby fodder on a cushy number with massive pensions.

      They’re career politicians answerable only to big business.

      If anything brexit has exposed the kind of cowards running the country, and whether or not Theresa May capitulates the country, there will be a good clean out and a reckoning on the way for sure.

      Given the level of public anger, I would not like to be in their shoes.

  16. George Brooks
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    You are absolutely right we must get free to govern ourselves in every respect as soon as possible.

    With the benefit of hindsight we can now see that the EU had no intention whatsoever to negotiate a trade deal of any description and that we would have been better off now if, on the 30 March 2017 we had said that we will trade on WTO terms and will spend the next two years planning for a ‘no deal’ exit.

    Many missed opportunities are recorded in history as this one will be but there is one significant difference. Today 17th October 2018 we have a second chance if the PM has the guts to take it.

    This evening the PM should tell the other 27 leaders that we will accept the transition period to December 2020 during which time we will put everything into place to leave without a deal and trade thereafter on WTO rules. We will pay our normal dues up to that date but nothing extra and accept the drafted agreements on citizens rights, security, etc etc as any normal friendly neighbour would do. We will share technology in order minimise any potential custom delays. If they have any helpful ideas we will listen but the end date will not change

    Many successes in life are generated by being able to recognise an opportunity. We should not miss this second chance

  17. libertarian
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Andy, Newmania etc

    More Brexit bad news

    Ohio-headquartered forklift manufacturer @CrownEquipment to open new 46,000 sq ft facility in Birmingham

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:44 pm | Permalink


      Good news for the UK, great

      What happened to your forecast about Mrs. Merkel?

    • Andy
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

      And? They won’t say how many jobs it will create.

      And of course some foreign companies want to buy property here.

      After your Brexit vote the pound collapsed making it 15% cheaper for them. (But also making everything more expensive for me and you).

      • Edward2
        Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:15 am | Permalink

        Whilst in the EU the pound rose and fell from near parity to over 1.60.
        Yet trade went on and people like you never blamed the EU

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          because there id no reason to blame the EU?

          • Edward2
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

            Yet after the referendum vote every movement of the pound is because of brexit.

      • libertarian
        Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:52 pm | Permalink


        Oh my word…… smh

        Yeh not going to employ anyone the fork lifts will make themselves

        Speculating in warehouse sites, thats a new one . Hold on you told us foreign companies are all leaving why would they want to buy property if they are leaving?

        You talk monumental twaddle

        Making EVERYTHING more expensive? Did it? Really ? I hadn’t noticed Andy. I’m paying the same for bread, milk, chicken , iPhones etc as I always did

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted October 19, 2018 at 11:57 am | Permalink


          No your are not paying the same for milk , chickens and bread, this utter rubbbish

  18. WeToldYou_No_EU
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    Great optimism about Brexit…an unusually uplifting thing to hear these days.
    We should have a Government with UK loyalty, saying those things.

    The reality of where we are, is that we have Mrs May’s SABOTAGE BREXIT still being pushed.

    This means:

    – Laws will still be decided in Brussels and the UK will have no say in them
    – Trade policy will be decided in Brussels, with no say and no voting rights for the UK
    – Free movement of EU citizens will be required into the UK, with no UK control
    – And an eye-watering bill from the EU will start to be paid by the UK, with ongoing
    payments lasting until 2064

    Even a Snake Oil Saleswoman could not sell that as “Brexit”.

  19. Nig l
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Ps. Guido has flagged the very positive movement on a US/U.K. trade deal. You must ensure Mays ludicrous positioning doesn’t compromise that.

    He makes the point that Obama’s statement that we would be at the back of a clue, was a lie by both him and Cameron the person who foisted it on him. More evidence of the Establishments contempt of the electorate.

    • Chris
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:42 am | Permalink

      President Trump is offering a lifeline to the UK, and calling May’s bluff so that her duplicity will be exposed. She will have to turn him down with the present Plan she and Robbins have devised. That one move by P Trump will lay bare exactly what May has devised for us, and it is not freedom to trade with other countries on our own terms, not the EU’s.

  20. robert lewy
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Is it not time for a change of language in these negotiations?

    In a competitive situation the term “opponents” or “rivals” would be more accurate
    in describing our colloquitors than “partners”.

    Partnership suggests an interest in a common solution. The facts on the ground suggest otherwise.

    The Brexit negotiations suggest rather a return by EU to medieval trial by ordeal.
    The test was one of life or death, and the proof of innocence was survival.
    This seems consistent with the approach used by EU for the Greek crisis.

    When we again set our own laws again it would be wise to exclude trial by ordeal.

  21. stred
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Thanks for trying John. It’s a shame that Eural infiltrated so many Europhile Blairite shysters into his party who think they can break a promise and get away with it. Your only option now is to start a new honest Conservative Party for Independence and Union. Then get some candidates from the grass roots who are actually conservative. There would be plenty of applications and financial support.

  22. Newmania
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Funnily enough the cul de sac of history is almost certainly going to turn out to spat of Nationalist fantasy largely inflicted by a swollen older cohort who are literally dying off as the word changes fast around them.
    Did you know there are more people alive to day than have ever died …amazing fact isn`t it, and that’s how fast the old world is dying. Africa is edging towards modernity, AI is opening up undreamt of cures …all very exciting. This institutional failure will certainly make us poorer and cause much suffering but much as fear for the debts Redwood and co are inflicting on my children , at least he will not be around to make things even worse.

    The Conservative Party by the way spent much of h 19th century resisting universal suffrage , first proposed by the Chartists and did so on the grounds it would be mob rule .
    I think they were right to do so and right to pursue a Policy of staying close to the European allies without which Napoleon would have won.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

      You ruin your own argument NM, because the conclusion is that the UK needs to be free to trade with this rapidly changing and prospering new world.

      Not being restricted by membership of a slow moving protectionist rules based organisation with a 1950s style centralised bureacracy.

    • Anonymous
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

      So. With a People’s Vote – a Remain result.

      You really think we’ll be going back to 2016 terms ?

      Pff. We’ll be better off leaving without a deal.

    • libertarian
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:56 pm | Permalink


      Er the 16-24 age group in the UK SHRANK last year . The largest group are 50-55

      In fact you are totally wrong ( as usual) The over 50’s ( who after all invented most of it) are the biggest users of technology, there are more of them active in the economy and they are positive about the future

      Oh and heres another Brexit “fail”

      Under fast-track trade rules, the US Trade Representative cannot start trade negotiations until 90 days after notifying Congress. Last night he sent that notification to Congress.

      The letter from the US Trade Representative, Robert Lighthizer, to Congress said the USTR planned to start talks between “the first and fifth largest economies in the world … as soon as it is ready after it exits the European Union on March 29, 2019.” The United States wants to develop “cutting edge obligations for emerging sectors where U.S. and U.K. innovators and entrepreneurs are most competitive.” The UK – US free trade deal will cover the biggest transatlantic bilateral trading relationship in the world.

      • Anonymous
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

        50 year-old age group could well have 50 years of life left in them. Many working well into their ’70s as they are now.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted October 18, 2018 at 6:04 am | Permalink


        Sounds like a great solution a new bilateral agreement between the UK and US, it will just take five years to complete and we will become rich on March 29th when we leave

        • Edward2
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:16 am | Permalink

          Meanwhile trade just carries on.

          • hans christian ivers
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

            Most sensible thing you have said for a long time. Thank o you

          • Edward2
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

            Wow that’s an illuminating comment hans.
            Trade carries on without trade agreements all over the world.

  23. A.Sedgwick
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Greece is the precedent, where the proceedings to change the catastrophic (to the people) programme imposed by the Troika were drowned in spurious meetings and pretend agreements. May and Co are falling for the same ruse by the EU. It is their modus operandi. They did not want to see Greece escape their debt burden in a sensible way because it would encourage others to follow the same path and totally undermine the ECB, Euro, German financial control and the concept of a federal EU. Similarly if the UK leave with a fair deal others will follow. In short the EU is a dictatorship.

  24. Roy Grainger
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    I see Hammond has announced that in the event of No Deal UK is legally obliged to pay the 40bn divorce payment anyway. He’s a good negotiator isn’t he ?

  25. Alan Jutson
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    That is the vision so many of us out here have, but will politicians let it, make it happen ?

    • Jack snell
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

      Alan jutson..yes it’s going to happen..the talks are going nowhere and I hear tonight that the WTO bosses are in London tonight already offering their support for a no deal

  26. Norman
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Thank you for verbalizing the dream of many, John.
    I saw some video clips recently of the ridicule poured on Trump’s chance of becoming President. Churchill also had a rough ride in the early days.Those mockers and scoffers sure had egg on their faces afterwards!
    I hope these same types will again be humiliated.
    In my appeals to a Higher Court, I give thanks for past mercies; I express gratitude for so much that was good, when many in our country aspired to follow the Maker’s Handbook. I acknowledge the terrible folly of the great falling away of recent times; the Accuser has much against us. But ‘for the fathers’ sakes’, I request that our beloved nation, though much chastised, will not fall to Babylon.
    It is a big ask. But then, none of the pundits expected the Referendum outcome. May they again be utterly confounded.

  27. Newmania
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    By the way , there will be no ” after Brexit”. Remain will be an on going campaign and our relationship with the Continent will never cease to be a key question.
    The campaign to rejoin the EU will push for a further referendum and I think we all know what the result would be

    • sm
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

      Yes dear, I’m sure the remaining Roman citizens felt the same way when the Legions finally left Britannia.

    • Andy
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

      Absolutely. The Brexiteers make the fatal mistake of assuming Brexit is done on 29 March. Far from it. They actually have to deliver on their lies.

      My generation will probably undo Brexit anyway – but my children’s generation certainly will if we don’t. It is a demographic inevitability.

      The only question remaining is how many of the Brexiteers we hold to account and bring to justice. I am confident that knowingly and a deliberately ignoring evidence to make your country poorer will, eventually, be found to be criminally negligent and they will be punished.

      • Anonymous
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

        No. YOUR generation is steeped in Brexit.

        You are 45. You are OLD. Up to your neck in it with the rest of the 45-65 age group.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

        off to the gulags for re education eh andy.

    • libertarian
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:59 pm | Permalink


      We respect your right to keep campaigning to join the EU and the Euro. That is only right democratically

      If a third referendum is held in the next 2-3 years, you’ll lose ….again

      After that, well it depends on how well things go doesn’t it.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

      Good luck with that one. Perhaps in 42 years time.

    • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

      Considering your earlier calculations, might it not be better to have such a “rejoin EU referendum” in 10 years time. The sobering experience of 10 years “Brexit island” (Freedom island?), and the changing demography may help you to get a more convincing majority.

    • Jagman84
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

      Yes. An even larger majority to not be in the EU. Your mendacity is losing it’s effect. More and more people are seeing what is actually going on in the so-called negotiations and just want out, asap.

    • Chewy
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

      Yes but if we do actually leave, admittedly if, that’ll be a rump of the campaign that exists now. Otherwise why the desperation for a second ref before we leave? Question, Most of the pro Remain comments on here aren’t reluctant Remainers, better the devil you know etc, but people who really like the EU and would probably like to see us fully fledged members rather than fence sitters. So why not let Britain leave properly and when in a few years, Freedom Island is desperate to rejoin fuelled by a new demographic aka Norway, then we can be fully fledged into the political project and Euro using members? Eyes wide open no Imperial hang ups etc.

    • Steve
      Posted October 18, 2018 at 6:57 pm | Permalink


      “Remain will be an on going campaign”

      Not for long. The day is coming when left wing-ism, political correctness and all the detritus will have no place, and anyone supporting it will be seen as antisocial.

  28. Chris S
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    It is clear now that the EU is not going to agree a transition deal that should be acceptable to any British PM and certainly not to the DUP.

    Any fudge that they come up with will only be one where the UK is placed at a huge disadvantage and they will then use that to delay any progress on a trade agreement, thus binding us into the EU and they will certainly insist that our current £10bn pa net contributions continue for what could be an indefinite period.

    Fortunately, 63 Brexiteer MPs and at least half of the cabinet will not agree to such a development, including former Remainers like the current Foreign Secretary.

    How can we have any confidence in the process while Robbins remains anywhere involved in the so-called negotiations ? He should be fired immediately.

  29. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    You’re right to trumpet this, because, despite Remainers, 17.4 million people will regard us as having left the EU on 29/3/2019. We will accept any EU laws which have passed into UK law on that date, but will regard any additions or amendments to those laws as only being acceptable should they have passed through our Parliament.

    It should be made quite clear at this juncture that any proposed changes made by the EU in legislation after that date which are contrary to our national interest but which become applicable under any Treaty or Agreement signed by T May and her cohort do not represent the settled will of the people, as indicated by referendum in June 2016 and by Parliament in accepting the result of that referendum and triggering A50.

  30. WeToldYou_No_EU
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Great news about the US extending a hand of friendship to the UK, over US/UK trade!

    The UK just needs to be in a position to move away from SABOTAGE BREXIT (aka Chequers), and into the future…rather than clinging onto the past.

  31. Denis Cooper
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    “The project of full economic, monetary, social and political integration was fully understood on the continent, but constantly denied by dishonest UK politicians.”

    The 1950 Schuman Declaration, which the EU takes as its starting point:

    included two explicit references to the formation of a pan-European federation.

    “The pooling of coal and steel production should immediately provide for the setting
    up of common foundations for economic development as a first step in the federation
    of Europe”

    “By pooling basic production and by instituting a new High Authority, whose decisions will bind France, Germany and other member countries, this proposal will lead to the realization of the first concrete foundation of a European federation indispensable to the preservation of peace.”

    British politicians were well aware of this but chose to lie to the British people.

    Two weeks ago somebody writing in the Times referred to the Schuman Declaration and its laudable aim of preventing wars but somehow omitted to mention that this was to be achieved through the creation of a pan-European federation, the deceit continues.

    • Oxiana321
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

      Thanks Denis. Useful background.
      So a key pretext for this was the ‘preservation of peace’ and the vehicle for achieving this lofty aim was the creation of a European federation using the methods of subterfuge outlined by Jean Monnet and others (“This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation”).
      The flaw or paradox in this argument, which may (or may not) have been recognised at the time, is that the public need to buy-in to this idea willingly, or the consequences for lasting peace are very grim.
      Looking back on the last 70 years or so, it does seem very odd to me that people who had experienced two such terrible wars could dream-up something so undemocratic and not realise that in doing so they might lay the foundations for future strife.

  32. ian
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Didn’t the British vote to leave the EU like years ago.

  33. Chris
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    It will be LINO, and we will never actually leave and have the freedoms you suggest. Sir Richard Dearlove has called out May and Robbins for covertly keeping the UK firmly enmeshed in, and committed to EU defence policy after Brexit. Leadsom and Mordaunt have told the Press quite firmly that they fully support the PM and no one is thinking of resigning. So, they fully support the betrayal as do Gove, McVey, Patel. The Remainers have successfully marginalised and emasculated the Brexiters, and it was made possible because of the delay, dithering and weakness of those concerned, in my view.

    • Hope
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

      Not Patel.

  34. a-tracy
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    How does the EU deal with Moldova and its border with Romania who is in the EU?

    How does the EU deal with its Russian border, there can’t be checkpoints all along the land border can there?

    If Eire is a good and trustworthy member of the EU why would they risk their membership by importing goods from Northern Ireland without proper procedure and surely the EU could find that out as they say they have discovered Chinese imports that weren’t processed properly paying the correct EU duties of £2bn?

    Anything getting onto the Island of Ireland would have an electronic paper trail wouldn’t it?

    When I went by Eurotrain into France we still had full passport and searches of our bags, when we fly we still have to show passports and go through security checks, in fact when we flew to Scotland we had to show our passport and go through security and that’s within the UK. So I’m curious at the moment do boats sail to the UK and from the UK into Ireland without any checks of who is on board and what they are carrying?

  35. Andy
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Ironically – so called Freedom Day is the day when the UK becomes an irrelevant vassal state.

    Accepting EU rules with no say. Being irrelevant on the world stage.

    John Lennon sought freedom from the Beatles.

    After that, with one notably exception, nobody really cared about his new music ever again.


    • Edward2
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:52 am | Permalink

      You have as poor a grasp of popular music as you have about modern politics andy.
      All the Beatles thrived after they became independent artists.
      Tens of millions of records were sold by the four once they were free to do their own thing.
      Freedom, independence, very important things.

    • Jiminyjim
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

      Mr Redwood, some of us try to restrain commenting on this site unless we have something new to contribute. Do we really have to continue to listen to someone who repeats the same arrogant comments time after time?

    • libertarian
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 5:05 pm | Permalink



      Under fast-track trade rules, the US Trade Representative cannot start trade negotiations until 90 days after notifying Congress. Last night he sent that notification to Congress.

      The letter from the US Trade Representative, Robert Lighthizer, to Congress said the USTR planned to start talks between “the first and fifth largest economies in the world … as soon as it is ready after it exits the European Union on March 29, 2019.” The United States wants to develop “cutting edge obligations for emerging sectors where U.S. and U.K. innovators and entrepreneurs are most competitive.” The UK – US free trade deal will cover the biggest transatlantic bilateral trading relationship in the world.

      Highly irrelevant,? remind me when the EU got a trade deal with their two biggest markets…. Whats that…. they haven’t? Are they not relevant on the world stage then?

      John Lennon sold more than 5 million solo albums…. I guess thats no one then

      • Andy
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

        John Lennon sold 14m albums in the US. The Beatles sold nearly 200m. A perfect Brexit parallel. Britain solo will be average. Britain in the EU was a superstar.

        As for your US trade deal – I don’t doubt that we will get a trade deal with the US. It will no doubt flog off parts of the NHS and require us to flood our country with Frankenstein foods. This is all a given. It is what Liam Fox wants. But I question why you want a trade deal when you don’t like trade deals.

        Margaret Thatcher’s single market is effectively the best trade deal in the wold. The Rolls Royce. The Aston Martin. And you dislike it for spurious reasons almost certainly unrelated to trade. When you don’t like the best trade deal I see no reason why you’d like a significantly inferior one. Still – I suspect you will need the sold off NHS more over the next decade than I will. Your welfare in the hands of the whoever will make the biggest profit at your expense.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

          All four members thrived after the Beatles broke up.
          Their individual success created the continued popularity which drove further sales of old Beatles records.
          Your analogy is very poor.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted October 18, 2018 at 1:48 am | Permalink


        What I nice and optimistic forecast for the so-called largest bilateral transatlantic trade agreement between the UK and US, it will take three to five years to negotiate on the basis of WTO rules that Mr. Trump seems not to support.

        I am sure it will make us rich as soon as we leave in March

        • Edward2
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:19 am | Permalink

          Yet trade will carry on whilst politicians carry on their meetings.

    • Jagman84
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

      Yes, All of that will potentially be achieved by the remainer cabal. All of the sore losers, just like you.

      Have you sacked your workforce and moved to your beloved EU yet ?

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted October 19, 2018 at 12:00 pm | Permalink


        what uter rubbish I do not even know what workforce you are talking about

  36. Alison
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    I so agree with almost all of our host’s post, just not with the bit about us being free on 29-3-2019. Dithering, over-dutiful Tory MPs did not boot out Mrs May when it was feasible. Big mistake.
    I also worry about campaign/military analysis capabilities of the main pro-Brexit groups.

    You will all be delighted to hear that the European Parliament has commissioned a poll of UK people – how would UK people vote today if there was a second referendum, do they think the first result was right/wrong. 51% would now vote to remain, 34% to leave, 11% undecided. (not reported what the other 4% would do) 58% thought the 2016 decision was wrong, 38% right. (Inconsistencies there)
    Poll conducted 8-26 September, by the “representative Eurobarometer” – to quote rankfurter Allgemeine, probably quoting Eurobarometer. My guess (and hope) is all those polled were in London. Whether that is the case or not, it tells me that the case for a true Brexit needs to be made, again, and again, subtly, nicely. I know all too well it’s difficult, with a very biased media. But it can be done.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

      Guido Fawkes has taken a look at that poll and found the EU was including the opinion of 215 year olds as well as people not eligible to vote, and other irregularities.

      • Iain Moore
        Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

        PLease read it as 15 year olds.

  37. martinC
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Spoken like a true English Nationalist-

    Not to worry John, you’ll get yours, Tusk & Co are not even half way there yet- and when they are you’ll have plenty of time for reflection/ otherwise naval gazing / you can even stand on the sea shore and look out to twelve miles to see the limits.. Jeez what a loada?

  38. formula57
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Indeed our Liberation Day is much to look forward to so why does this feeble government leave a clear run to the quislings and remoaners who assure us there will then be no trade, no aircraft flying, no television, no sunrise etc.?

    Will maladroit Chancellor Hammond use his forthcoming budget to announce some of the very many good measures that would be possible and widely welcomed? Of course not, but why?

  39. A different Simon
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Superb article , particularly the opening paragraph .

    The UK’s membership of the EU has indeed been a “Cul-de-Sac of History” .

    The first thing to do when we leave is to cut the supply of money off from subversive organisations and fifth columnists .

    This includes most Quango’s and we should follow Mr Putin’s example of kicking out international civil society organisations (NGO’s) if they interfere in our domestic issues .

    Transfers of monetary value between these organisations and from public bodies to these organisations need to be declared and subject to new rules .

    Donations from those seeking to undermine democracy ………………… need to be seized and placed in public coffers .

  40. Ed Mahony
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    I think, morally, we’re better out (in my opinion, I might be wrong). But not at any cost (the end does not justify the means). But if out, we still need strong trade / cultural / security ties with Europe (for geopolitical reasons / we share same Christian / Graeco-Roman / European heritage and geography).

    Whether in or out, I have 3 big concerns:

    1) The British Family. The strong British Family is essential to our economy / general well-being. It’s being attacked left, right and centre. The British Family needs help. Tax breaks. But also in other ways too.

    2) Housing Crisis for Young. Huge task for young, in particular wanting to start family, to get on the housing ladder.

    3) The Arts. Strong British Arts are crucial for A). British Patriotism B. The Soul / Happiness / General Well-being of Britain C. British Commerce.
    I’d like to see Parliament do more (tax breaks etc) to support budding writers, artists, composers, film-makers, architects – to help create the Shakespeares, Handels, David Leans, Christopher Wrens of the future.

    For God, Queen/Country and Family.

    • Ed Mahony
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

      ‘But not at any cost (the end does not justify the means)’

      – It’s possible for the means to become a greater evil than the end.

      The best would be to – peacefully – see Europe split up into national sovereign countries, again. Like before the EU.

      Sovereignty/patriotism is a virtue. However, we musn’t forget how beautiful patriotism can turn to ugly nationalism – look at how all the great wars in Europe are underpinned by an ugly form of nationalism.

      Patriotism is like a person who is comfortable in one’s own skin without being fearful of others or thinking oneself better than others. We must never forget that. We must not let ugly nationalism creep into our great country. Whilst we must try, at the same time, to educate/inspire people about why patriotism is a great, beautiful thing.

  41. Ron Olden
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink


    Yet another economic statistic (today inflation figure) that has ‘surprised’ or ‘shocked’ economists and the BBC.

    For my part I’m ‘surprised’ these people aren’t receiving counselling or medication for their nervous morbid dispositions, and attending special schools to help correct their inability to anticipate the blindingly obvious.

    Economists and the BBC have either been ‘surprised’ or ‘shocked’ by nearly every monthly economic statistic since we voted Leave in June 2016.

    They are never reported as having been ‘pleased’ or ‘delighted’ like most working people are.

    Last week they all were ‘shocked’ by the fact that German Industrial output had fallen for three consecutive months whilst the UK economy had grown at an annual rate of the 3% in the same quarter.

    Yesterday they were ‘shocked’ that wage growth in the UK is now at its’ highest level for ten years, that unemployment has reached its lowest level since the 1970s, and that large numbers of people who were not previously even counted as unemployed are now taking jobs.

    By the end of the Brexit process many of these ‘economists’ and BBC reporters, might be hospitalised with ‘shock’.

    So just as well we’re spending so much more money on the NHS.

  42. ian
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Politicians in the UK want to keep the cash following into the EU as long as they can and try to go beyond 2020 when UK payment will rise by 5 billion a year which austerity carry on longer for the poor people and affect what country can afford.

  43. Fishknife
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    I marvel at the blindness of the legacy media to the actions of the ‘Middle-men’.
    When World energy prices go down, we don’t see a like reduction at the pumps because the middle-men gleefully swallow the slack.
    When Sterling drops Exports don’t suddenly rise on the back of cheaper products, because the middle-men simply enhance their ‘slice’.
    Just because Chlorinated Chicken is cheap in America don’t expect it to retain the same competitive margin when it gets to our shelves.
    In reality the EU has little to fear from cheap imports, there won’t be many – and the ‘Gravity Model’ will hold it’s sway, the cost of re-exporting from the Evil Empire’s periphery is just too great. There will be a small degree of smuggling close to the Irish border but the cost of fuel will be a natural control.
    Our benefit will come, not from cheaper prices but from the taxes levied on the importing middle-men, sorry middle-‘persons’.

  44. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    HMRC Chief Exec in answer to S Kinnock question, HoC select committee:
    “If no tariff schedule is in place at the UK border on 30/3/19, no tariff will be charged by HMRC”.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

      It is not widely known that this would make little difference …

      “… at present all the duties are collected on behalf of the EU and are remitted to the EU, less the 20% retained for collection costs, but that is besides the point I wish to make that not only is £3 billion a relatively small sum in the context of UK public finances but the present cost to importers just of customs compliance will be more than half of that*, and surely nowadays there must be a cheaper and less economically damaging way for the UK state, or indeed the EU proto-state, to raise a mere £3 billion of revenue.”

  45. Peter Lavington
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Voters who feel let down by May could vote Labour in protest. Fair enough but I cannot understand why people would vote for Socialism or almost Communism at the same time whilst Labour seem to want to stay in the EU. The two are totally in compatable. A Corbyn govt would be pretty well the same as now. EU laws and rules decide policy.

  46. Robert Eve
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Spot on John!!

  47. ian wragg
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    I ha So the government is telling lies regarding no deal. Not a good reason to vote for them is it? ”

    Of course the government is telling lies, they open their mouths don’t they?

    I know exactly why Ford is whinging, you might not be aware, but Ford do not make any cars in the UK, they have used the EU to offshore a lot of their EU production to Eastern Europe. They also used EU money, our money to close their Transit plant in Southampton and move it it lock, stock and barrel to Turkey outside of the EU. The major production facility that Ford have left in the UK is diesel engine production, which with the EU/UK commitment to ban diesels and the crash in diesel sales, will be the next one to close. A No Deal for Ford would mean they would have to pay tariffs on all their vehicles into the UK , this would hand the market for light goods vans to the British made Vauxhall Vivaro range giving them a choice of losing market share bigtime, or return to building vehicles in the UK. They are getting exactly what the deserve.. JLR have also been offshoring for a number of years on elements of their model range, so nothing new there. Thomas Cook what exactly are they going to do, stop selling us package holidays, as increasing numbers of people arrange their own package, that is not exactly going to bring the economy down. Astra Zeneca have frozen investment because of the lack of clarity coming from the government, no mention of No Deal.

    The truth is most of these companies have a history of crying wolf on this issue before over what would happen if we didn’t join the Euro,, the same threats, in fact in the case of NIssan it was exactly the same rhetoric from the same CEO. All vacuous hot air, because within weeks of not joining the Euro, NIssan announced new models for Sunderland. I am more inclined to believe British companies like JCB or Dyson rather than multi-nationals who care for nothing other than their own interests, which are usually not ours. ve copied this from elsewhere and thank the author. It sums up nicely what the CEO of Ford has said.

    • ian wragg
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

      Extract of a reply on ConHome.

  48. Rien Huizer
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    The sooner the UK leaves the Union, the better. If your feelings are shared by the majority of the UK population, leaving and accepting the costs and benefits are fine. The EU would probably be better off without a member with these views (can a country have views? anyway) so this shopuld be fine. The question really is: how to deal with the transition and UK commitments re the Irish people who wre the first part of the UK (then more or less the core of the English Empire, euphemisticalled the British Empire) to Leave. This after a pretty brutal armed struggle (even without Nationalist history writing) on UK soil, no less.
    There is little justification for your eulogy of British political institutions and culture. The first Republics in Western Europe were the city states of Italy and the Hanseatic League, superseded by the first (not quite democratic but certainly republican and consensually governed) nation state without a hereditary and autocratic government, the Dutch Republic. That same republic was not allowed to be reinstated after the Napoleontic wars, and amongst others, the UK insisted upon a hereditary monarchy to be installed which first was challenged by the Belgians and later by classical liberals who forced the then King to become a figurehead. Also, the US Founding Fathers were inspired by the Dutch Republic (John Adams spent much time there) not by the English monarchy, although they were familiar with its institutions and polutical processes.

    Like the electoral system in the UK is much less democratic than more modern Anglo-Irish ones (Australia for instance or Ireland), ideas of sovereignty and especially the much abused word “freedom” may have to be revisited. Being a subject of a souvereign state does not make us free, living in a modern democracy with rule of law, free markets and openness to foreign ideas, media and people does.

  49. John Probert
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    The extra time being offered by the EU is good for the EU and not for England

    If they cannot deliver a good deal in the time available WTO or Canada ?

    • Jason wells
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

      John..just what the hell are you on you think we can whistle up new deals like canada plus or others through WTO just like that..all new deals will have to be negotiated and each one will take years to conclude..just another thing the international trade secretary has not explained properly to us yet

      • Henry Spark
        Posted October 18, 2018 at 5:39 am | Permalink

        Good question jason! Redwood and his fellow ideologues try to explain away the absence of any deal with the EU on the basis the Eu is being “intransigent”. I wonder if they will try the same excuse when it turns out that the rest of the world has no interest in doing a deal with the UK (unless of course we are willing to privatise the NHS, acept unregulated foods and medicies etc)

        • Edward2
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:22 am | Permalink

          You Remainers are suddenly obsessed about trade deals.
          Trade carries on between nations without trade deals and has done for decades.

          • hans christian ivers
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

            totally agree but at our potential disadvantatge

          • Edward2
            Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

            with emphasis on the word potentially

  50. John Wright
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    I fervently believe that Britain’s future “has” to be outside of the EU. There is no question of our ability to thrive & grow (again!) once freed of the stifling, bureaucratic nightmare of that organisation’s clutches. We should ofcourse, never have been so treacherously railroaded into that mess, but the Tory government of that time lied to & cheated the British public & what we’re seeing now is a repetition of the same sorts of lies & deceits, this time being foisted upon us by Mrs May & her cohorts! Truly, our governments over many years have been nothing but renegades, selling us & our Nation to the highest bidder with no thought for the future, indeed, as long as the majority of our MP’s can draw their salaries & their enormous expenses, what do they care for Jack & Jill ordinary? This cannot continue & from where I stand, the trumped-up issues surrounding BRexit are but subterfuge to hide the fact, our government (if one can honestly call it that?) are seeking to cheat the people of this Country, once again! With lies, lies, lies. For those who claim this government are only doing their best?, they should remember that two years have passed since the referendum & we are no nearer a resolution because of the deliberate dirty tactics employed by this Tory government to stall, delay, defer any settlement in order to comply with the EU’s master plan? In other words, ignore the referendum result & beg us to re-admit Britain as just a naughty bunch of children fighting in the playground. EU declaration no 66193122/18/001
    John Wright Tell them to 6 off!

  51. Martin
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    I can well understand Mrs May being content to conspire in installing Mr Corbyn at the next GE. He, after all won’t remotely threaten her legacy of a country broken and bowed and under the thumb of its Continental neighbours, with even less of a say in its affairs than ever before in its history. With its armed forces under the control of its enemies. With its people gagged for fear of imprisonment should they speak their mind incorrectly in public. But why pray tell me are so many Conservative MP’s content to see the party commit certain electoral suicide? Do they really, truly not appreciate that the majority of the 17.4 million leavers were Tory supporters? Do they really truly not understand that a sizeable proportion of the 17.4 million will never ever stomach this final greatest betrayal of all and will abstain at the polls or even cast their votes for the only political party which genuinely stands for the sovereignty of this country? Whether or not those votes be wasted under FPTP? Do they not know that some will see little difference in governance by left wing May or left wing Corbyn? Perhaps they aren’t capable of thinking that far ahead. Perhaps they’re suffering from terminal brain fade. They have to act now or be finished, because this country certainly is as things stand.

  52. zorro
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    T May again treacherously threatens that she will pay £36 billion to EU if there is a ‘no deal’ exit. Why??? When will you hold her to account?


  53. Denis Cooper
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    On the Telegraph website there is an article by a senior journalist which says:

    “The best possible option is for Britain to join the EEA”.

    This exposes journalistic ignorance, or possibly duplicity, on so many levels that it is difficult to know where to start, and when newspaper reporting and commentary is so inaccurate it is not surprising that so many ordinary people are so confused about all of this. It might be expected that the government would have an interest in helping to clear up misconceptions so that the people were well-informed, but in fact the exact opposite is true and it actively spreads its own false propaganda.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

      And in another newspaper your Tory colleague Nick Boles has independently had the same brain wave:

      “Very simply, it involves the UK leaving the EU on March 29, 2019, and, for an interim phase only, moving to a position like Norway’s in what is called the European Economic Area (EEA).”

      When you next bump into him, JR, please could you point out that Norway is not in any customs union with the EU, and that nearly a year ago when Sky News asked Irish ministers whether they would accept the kind of “light touch” border controls that exist between Norway and Sweden they rejected the idea out of hand?

      “Is the Norway-Sweden border a solution for Ireland?”

      Would something like this be good enough for the Irish government?

      Nope, from 03:12 in, they reject:

      “anything that would imply a border on the island of Ireland”.

  54. Know-Dice
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood, you need to emphasise to your colleagues that it’s not the “cliff edge” that is the problem, its uncertainty that is and will hurt businesses the most.

    Another 18months/2 years of transition without ongoing trade deals is the disaster that your Remainder colleagues will put upon businesses in the UK..

  55. Mike Wilson
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    We will become a keen advocate of free trade globally, signing deals with those who share our vision of the power of free trade to spread and increase prosperity.

    Really? Still beating the ‘global free trade’ drum? Why? Why can’t we become a nation self sufficient in energy and food – so we can be prosperous in our own right?

    ‘Global free trade’ means simply outsourcing well paid, skilled jobs from one country to another country where people will work for less money. It is a race to the bottom, not to the top. Maybe when everyone in the world is earning ‘a buck a day’, the champions of ‘global free trade’ will wake up.

  56. nhsgp
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    The same arguments apply to England NI, Wales and Scotland getting back control from Westminster.

    The arguments also apply for cities getting back control from national governments.

    Then the arguments apply for the individual getting control back from politicians in general.

    But you don’t see it that way.

    You see it as you getting control and ordering other people around.

    That’s the problem.

    You won’t allow us to have informed explicit consent

  57. hans christian ivers
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 2:50 pm | Permalink


    This is an interesting and in-depth analysis of the UK relationship with the Eu over the past 45 years and with some interesting and insightful observations which we should all take note of. However, the views expressed are also a reflection of your ambivalent relationship to the Eu, which I experienced 20 years ago at Deloitte during a debate about the EURO. This makes your objectivity questionable and not particularly unbiased.

    No nation walks away from 45 years of increased interdependence without consequences and economic compromises and your rather naïve look at the potential after the EU on trade and opportunities with the rest of the World , which trading nations like the Germans Dutch and Scandinavvians have been able to sue also as part of the EU are rather biased.
    To think we can just walk away and continue our trade with the rest of the World on the 55% and the rest on free trade WTO rules which are also under treat is only done by somebody who is no longer in the business world.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      The UK was correct not to give up the pound.
      Looking at the real austerity created for many European nations, it seems possible that the UK would have suffered similarly too.

      Trade will carry on after we leave.
      Even a campaign of determined awkwardness by the EU will not stop nations a
      and the hundreds of millions of free people in nations all around the world wanting to sell and buy goods and services off each other.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted October 18, 2018 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

        as an Eu citizen being both British and Danish I do not feel less free being part of the EU as well

        • Edward2
          Posted October 18, 2018 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

          I’m glad you feel that way.

  58. Raymond
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    As a first time voter in 1975 I voted to stay in the Common Market (EEC) thinking it a glorified free trade area. If I had been wiser and somewhat more learned (or listened to the prophets on the leave side) I would have voted to leave. Then, like now I am afraid, ‘No prophet is accepted in his home town’. I want the UK to be a free nation.
    I can understand the money interests wanting the UK to stay in the EU but I don’t understand the self rightious socialists wishing to do so (because it restricts their nationalisation and Gulag (sic?) aspirations).

  59. Sheldon Wilkie
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    I can’t wait till we are a free nation again!

  60. Nigel Seymour
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m pretty sure it is Sky reporter Mark Frei who has been reported as being a very close ‘friend’ of Barnier and is reporting anti-Brexit rhetoric pre TM meeting today? I thought it was the Beeb that despised anything or anyone that supported Brexit?

  61. margaret
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    how about a bit of common sense. The people you have listed can be more ‘far out’ than the PPE grads.

  62. Martin
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Well we have a Prime Minister we don’t trust either (and with very good reason) so there’s a certain logic to it.

  63. John Hatfield
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Holy smoke John ! Well said !
    Also did you read Professor David Blake’s excellent piece in the Daily Telegraph today?
    The great pity for Britain is that the Prime Minister and Chancellor are working for the 6% of UK businesses that trade with the EU and not the electorate.

  64. Fairweather
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand why the Irish border is such a problem
    Why can’t it be a border like any other country outside the EU?
    There is nothing in the Good Friday agreement about the border and I can’t see hostilities arising again over customs and goods. This could all be sorted out amicably away from the border wuth tariffs beung added to invoices and money paid to HMRC later as happens with VAT. It’s not rocket science to set up vetinary centres to check livestock and certification crossing the border .EU citizens arriving could be refused a NI number until they had a job
    Am I being naive?

    • martinC
      Posted October 18, 2018 at 6:13 am | Permalink

      Fairweather- yes a little naive..first of all the Irish don’t see it as an Irish Border..they see it as a British Border imposed on the people, but the matter was settled in a good way 20 years ago by the Belfast Agreement and now Brexit threatens to open up all of the old wounds again. According to the Belfast agreement all or any of the people in NI can be Irish, British, EU citizens as they wish..and up until now it has worked very well because with the EU the border had become almost invisible..but now what?

  65. WeToldYou_No_EU
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    May wasn’t allowed to join the EU Leaders for dinner tonight.

    Please don’t tell me she negotiated a Deal to do the washing up?

  66. Chewy
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Uplifting definitely. I’ll believe it when I see it though.

  67. Jack snell
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Mrs May wants more flexibility from the EU so that she can better cherry pick..but no chance of that..the clock is ticking..the British border in Ireland has come back to bite

  68. Chris
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    Two of the politer comments from the Comments section of an article on D Express website tonight about May in Brussels and how she is apparently willing to concede a longer transition time (possibly up to next election, when Labour will probably win):

    “Ohh my god, she is insane…”

    “What in gods name is this dumb woman doing. Her time was up months ago”.

  69. Mark Nottingham
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    I would suggest the one real truth that has arisen from the vote to leave the EU is how untrustworthy and inadequate the majority of our political class are. There are no words to describe my utter contempt and anger for the crass and underhanded means our politicians have used to subvert our decision. Yet still they will feign suprise when the country erupts so violently as to make the poll tax riots look like a picnic.

    I would suggest when you leave the people with a choice between a rock and a hard place something has got to give. I have a great deal of respect for you Mr Redwood and I admire your spirit but May has got to go and soon.

    • Chris
      Posted October 18, 2018 at 9:52 am | Permalink

      Very well said, MN.

  70. Mike Wilson
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    Freedom day is the day we leave the EU.

    Yeah? When is that day then?

    The Conservative Party is now in the process of the longest suicide in history.

  71. Iain Gill
    Posted October 17, 2018 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    May must go

    Come on John just say it

  72. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted October 18, 2018 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    All true but half of the current parliamentary Conservative Party consists of these ‘dishonest politicians’. To prevail, you need to split the Conservative Party and to fight the next General Election as Brexiteers vs the rest. The aim will be gain the votes of the 52% who voted Leave in the referendum. Four things need to be done urgently:

    – Organise a filibuster to talk out any Treaty based on Chequers
    – Draw up a Brexiteers’ Manifesto with wide appeal
    – Vote no confidence in this Prime Minister
    – Organise propaganda on a vast scale slamming the record and prospectus of the European Commission (our very own Project Fear)

    Who dares wins.

  73. Monza 71
    Posted October 18, 2018 at 1:36 am | Permalink

    Surely Conservative MPs must now act to bring this tragi-comedy to an end ?

    We now have Mrs May and Barnier calling for a year’s extension of the “transition” period which. in reality, we all know is nothing of the sort. It’s just another year of membership. Remainers in the establishment only need to engineer one more short extension to ensure we are still effectively in the EU at the time of the next General Election in which, of course, a cynical Labour Party will campaign to stay in permanently.

    An extension will achieve precisely nothing other than be a device by which May hands over much more than an additional annual £10bn net contribution. More, because we are extremely unlikely to get much back other than our rebate as Brussels is unlikely to agree to fund any new projects in a country that is leaving.

    Small wonder that the 27 leapt at the idea !

    The utter humiliation Robbins and May have heaped upon our country is unforgivable. I cannot think of a worse case in our history other than 1066 or perhaps Suez.

    It is unlikely that a vote could be put through the Commons to prevent a further extension, as Labour won’t support it. The only way is for Conservatives to remove May immediately and replace her with a true Brexiteer whose first act should be to sack Robbins.

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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