Groundhog day propaganda

The Remain spinners have long since run out of new or vaguely credible lines. Yesterday the BBC Radio 4 Today programme did its best to keep their flag flying. The Business editor led the questioning on food shortages, when there isn’t a scrap of evidence that any important continental exporter is about to cancel supplies or that the UK is about to place new barriers at our ports to keep the food out on March 30th. Instead of asking enough of his chosen expert and then of Sainsbury about the Argos acquisition, the possible tie up with Asda, the highly competitive state of the UK food market or about how they might source more UK produce to cut the food miles, we had to have the same old nonsense scares. There is a simple answer to all this. We don’t believe them!

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  1. Nig l
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    On/off switch permanently at off.

    • Peter
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

      The Antipodean business editor in question never gets a full introduction on ‘Today’. After a couple of previous posts about him, I now take notice when I hear the accent. In all honesty, I think he is just a make weight. He is certainly not one of the star presenters on the programme.

      That said, he does seem to annoy Mr. Redwood for some reason. Whereas I find Robert Peston’s strange speech mannerisms more irritating myself.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

      Nig1 Yes, I have given up watching the news. It’s either Brexit with lies, Trump with obvious and relentless slagging off, gender equality and transgender rubbish. If you dont’ watch it on the news you have the wonderful choice of watching Dr Who and other left wing biased ‘comedy’ programmes which are all rubbish. And I have to pay for this!!

  2. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    Of course we’ll still be rolling our full-fat Gouda chesses into Britain on 30th March so you won’t need to go hungry!
    But, more interestingly, the UK economic growth will be the weakest in the European Union over the next two years, predicted by the independent sources. 🙂 I’ll be looking at the tradingeconomics website from time to time . . .

    • Edward2
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:04 am | Permalink

      Are these the same “independent sources” that predicted the UK would suffer an extra half million unemployed and a recession for immediately after the referendum date?

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

        @Edward2: It is YOUR Independent. co. uk, not mine, a truly British source! 🙂
        . . .actually it was them citing the European Commission, equally good and trusted by me. 🙂 Have a nice day!

        • Edward2
          Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

          I don’t follow your logic there Peter.
          You claimed as a solid fact what was a vague prediction of two years into the future by a think tank that has its own agenda.
          Not impressed.

    • matthu
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink


      Why does your comment claiming UK economic growth will be the weakest in the European Union over the next two years bring to mind a recent subterfuge made by the IPCC?

      Well it seems that for its recent 1.5°C report the IPCC has changed the definition of climate. No longer do we get to rely on what is actually happening to temperatures and so form our own opinion about global warming.

      Instead, global warming is now defined by the IPCC as a speculative 30-year global average temperature that is based, on one hand, on the observed global temperature data from the past 15 years and, on the other hand, on assumed global temperatures for the next 15 years.

      By this means, climate scientists are now arbitrarily able to modify the severity of global warming simply by altering their forecasts!

      So too with your “independent sources” projecting the severity of Brexit.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

        @matthu: see response to Edward2 above.
        Or look at the Ameriacan site tradingeconomics for current figures – at the moment you’re still better than Italy and Denmark but trailing the rest of us. 🙂

    • libertarian
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      Peter vL

      Whoops, Facts a are a bit of a nuisance to Remainers aren’t they ?

      The UK’s GDP growth figures for Q3 reveal that growth has shot up to a near two year high of 0.6%. Which means that Brexit Britain grew three times as fast as the stagnating Eurozone in Q3, which posted paltry growth of only 0.2%

      Sounds like you need better “independent” sources

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:33 pm | Permalink


        According to Pimco growth in the Eurozone was exactly the same in Q3 as it was in the UK, 0.6%

        So, when you quote figures it is probably better yo cheque them again, otherwise it looks rather silly as well.

        So, who needs better sources?

        • libertarian
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:29 pm | Permalink


          Sorry mate, official government figures. Do you never watch the news or read the financial press?

          Try again oh and its *check* unless you want to pay me for my superior expertise

          “So, who needs better sources?” Er You do

      • margaret howard
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

        “Fond memories of a hot summer with the smell of barbecues and the sound of football matches wafted through Friday’s GDP figures.

        The government bean-counters pointed to strong retail sales boosted by warm weather and the World Cup. Other parts of the economy also warmed up.

        After a miserable start to the year, when construction sites were frozen and idle, July saw a continued swing back in activity.

        Although August and September saw no further growth, hanging on to July’s strength was enough to see the economy put in its best three-month performance for nearly two years.”

        Puts things into perspective?

        • libertarian
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

          margaret howard

          Lol, you are so funny

          Life causes things to happen…. who knew ?

    • Bob
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

      With your uncanny ability to predict the future you must be very popular with the bookies?

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

        I only cited sources – look under @matthu above

        • Bob
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

          So using historic lottery winning number combinations you must by now be lounging on your gin palace in a Caribbean paradise surrounded by a bevy of personal assistants. Why on Earth are you bothered whether or not the EU has 27 0r 28 members?

    • matthu
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:42 am | Permalink

      The UK’s GDP growth figures for Q3 reveal that growth has shot up to a near two year high of 0.6%.

      Which means that Brexit Britain grew three times as fast as the stagnating Eurozone in Q3, which posted paltry growth of only 0.2% last quarter.

      Which means that PvL may be starting to feel a little silly. Not that he would admit it, because he is too busy clinging to a prediction “by independent sources”.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

        @matthu: why not look at your y-o-y GDP growth (UK 1.2%, Netherlands 3.1% and currently only above Italy and Denmark), after all these y-o-y GDP growths are used in these predictions for the next two years. But, yes, be happy with you Q3 bleep!

        • libertarian
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink


          Oh dear oh dear oh dear

          The Growth figures are actual things that have HAPPENED

          You are quoting things that someone thinks MIGHT happen in future

          Get a grip

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:34 pm | Permalink


        Look at the figures again before you start quoting the wrong figures, Q3 in the Eurozone was the same as the UK growth

        • libertarian
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink


          Looked again at the ONS and department of trade and the Bank of England figures . BBC politics programme also reporting same figures, Andrew Neil tweeting them

          Nope they still say we are right and you are wrong. UK outperformed the Eurozone in Q3

          You’ve made yourself look a bit daft hans

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:46 am | Permalink

      There are no independent sources.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

        @anonymous: it was only a pun (“the Independent. co. uk”), but the Ec cited by them is not soo bad in its predictions.

    • L Jones
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

      Who needs enemies with friends like you, Peter?

      • L Jones
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:39 am | Permalink

        PS And when such websites prove your gleeful predictions utterly wrong, and the UK is booming despite all your ill wishes, can we expect you to come back and eat your words? Much tastier than full fat Gouda, probably.

        • margaret howard
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

          UK booming? Not the view of Jo Johnson who has resigned claiming Brexit was a ‘phantasy set of promises’. He has risked his job so I would give more credence to his views.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

        L. Jones,

        Unnecessary remark considering all growth was the same in the Uk as in the Euro-zone

        • libertarian
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink


          No it wasn’t you are making up figures that no official source agrees with

          Retract your fake news and apologise

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

      PVL this morning I read Britain in Q3 grew 3x as fast as the Eurozone 0.6% compared to 0.2% not great but still growth. The Bank of England says the economy is operating at full capacity and thank goodness finally salaries are rising as labour shortages push up earnings. Is all this ‘fake news’….?

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

        @a-tracy: Of course many of these precicted growth figures for the next two years are only that – predictions – and often well within a statistical margin of error. I was just teasing a few on-edge brexiteers on this site and yeas, they took the bait.

      • margaret howard
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

        Yes, due to the weather and the world cup. Not likely to repeated soon?

        • libertarian
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

          margaret howard

          Congratulations , you win dumbest tweet of the week

          Did the Eurozone not have good weather , I thought France won the world cup. How come we outperformed them under EXACTY THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES ?

    • JPM
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

      The EU is not an independent source…

  3. Duncan
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    You know what you need to do when this PM leaves the scene and we finally elect a proper, radical Tory leader.

    Revenge is a dish best served cold

    • Bob
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink


      When was the last time the Tories had a proper radical leader?

      • Turboterrier.
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:17 pm | Permalink


        Long long time ago

    • Bob
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

      “Is there any point whatsoever at which May would say ‘This is a bad deal’? Seriously, if the EU demanded child sacrifice, she’d scurry back from Brussels to spin ideas on reducing class sizes.” Rob Howland on Twitter

  4. Mark B
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    The Remain spinners have long since run out of new or vaguely credible lines.

    Ah, but as someone once said, and we all know who 😉”If you tell a lie long enough, eventually it becomes the truth.”

    Anyway, your wrong Mr.Redwood MP sir, they haven’t mentioned World War III yet. 😜

    • Mark B
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      Oops ! Good morning.

  5. BenM
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    You might not believe them, but some importers/ exporters are wondering about the logistics of a possible new situation because of the expected disruption to transport through Dover Calais. The slow down will probably happen more on the French side. Businesses are wondering if this is going to signal a change to more cargo being carried by container through Felixstowe to Rotterdam and antwerp, also more cargo by refrigerated containers. If this is to be the case then they will need to start planning for it now. It is not something that can be dismissed by saying you don’t believe -neither is it something that can be left to chance.

  6. Alan Jutson
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Afraid listening to so called news programmes has now become a farce of huge proportions.

    Listening to Our Prime Minister has also become painful, I think she is so confused herself about what is required because she seems to rely upon so many advisors of very poor choice.

    We need a leader who has a clear mind and who is a positive and strategic thinker, not a micro manager of detail worrying over where to put coma’s and full stops.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

      Alan Jutson

      Listening to Our Prime Minister has also become painful,

      Its is far more than just being painful Alan it also is embarrassing.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted November 10, 2018 at 7:39 am | Permalink

        I can hardly bear to see or hear her, and I avoid reading stories about her tree planting and school visiting and other gimmicks in our local paper.

  7. Adam
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Radio 4’s Today prog should be scrutinised by a Select Committee & corrected, or abolished if beyond redemption.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

      That would give Damian Collins another opportunity to bask in the limelight …

  8. rose
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Hearing the ex Attorney General this morning on radio 4 reminded me of Clinton: he spoke, as others have done in recent days, of “No hard border down the Irish Sea”. Naturally, the Today employee didn’t pin him down on this weasel phrase. The PM said there would be no border, not no hard border. If they think they can foist a border on us that is not hard, then why not where the border already is, between the two separate countries of the UK and Southern Ireland? This is annexation. There is no other name for it.

  9. Den
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Had this country been on a war footing when these phony scare stories were released, the perpetrators would be arrested for treason.
    It is, therefore, a shame that the democracy which they now abuse allows them the freedom to do so.
    More shameful and even more scary is the fact that should they ever get their way, we all will be subjected to a loss of the “Freedom of Speech” a vital component of any democracy.
    Remainers are a danger to the good health of Great Britan.

    • Andy
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

      Not true. You are perfectly free to spew your economically illiterate Brexit bile.

      It is the Brexiteer snowflakes who are a danger to democracy.

      You reject experts. You dismiss facts.

      Anyone who even dare raise a question about your project is dismissed as a traitor.

      You are the biggest domestic threat this country has ever faced.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

        Just look at the predictions of Project Fear Mark
        One and see how all the predictions failed to come true.

        • margaret howard
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

          You prefer Jo Johnson’s ‘phantasy set of promises’?

          • Edward2
            Posted November 10, 2018 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

            He is remainer.

          • libertarian
            Posted November 10, 2018 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

            margaret howard

            Is that the Jo Johnson that co wrote the party manifesto he’s now ratted on? Or maybe its the Jo Johnson who publicly stated that he would abide by whatever decision the voters made. That Jo Johnson, a politician. A remainer. A hypocrite

      • libertarian
        Posted November 10, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink


        The person that ignores every cited, linked fact that proves him deluded and wrong

        Andy the person who despite being asked myriad times can’t cite a single positive for remaining in the EU

        Andy credibility rating = zero

  10. Duncan
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Well, John? Perrin’s asking for our party to stand up and be counted on Scruton. Well?????????????????????????????? If today the Tories don’t take a stand against the fascist left then we will all pay a heavy price in terms of our freedoms. We are demanding this PM comes out and confirms her backing of Scruton and if she doesn’t then it will tell us all we need to know about her leanings and indeed yours.

    We are slowly beginning to realise that the Parliamentary Tory party has embraced liberal left fascism and it breaks all our souls in half to see the destruction of a once great party

    ‘Will the Conservative Party for once man up and stand firm with Sir Roger Scruton in the face of this mob on the permanent hunt for witches? Let us not forget Professor Scruton was knighted for his services to philosophy, teaching and public education, most of which explains conservatism. Scruton is essentially the father of modern conservative philosophy and if the Conservative Party do not defend him, they are bunch of disgusting cowards who would sell their own mothers for a vote.

    Sir Roger Scruton stands for every single conservative voter and person who believes in the right to express views that have not been approved by the extreme Left without being run out of town decades later. That is how important this is for the Conservative Party. They must stand up to this tyranny.’

    • acorn
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

      Above you say “Revenge is a dish best served cold”. Yet Scruton says.

      “And in the christian tradition the primary act of sacrifice is forgiveness. The one who forgives, sacrifices vengeance and renounces thereby a part of himself, for the sake of another.”

    • Bob
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink


      “liberal left fascism”

      That’s an oxymoron if ever I saw one.

  11. MikeP
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Peter van Leeuwen mentions the Trading Economics website but chooses to omit their current consensus view that Germany’s Q3 growth could be as low as 0.2%. With France at 0.4% and Italy at 0%, the UK’s Q3 figure announced today of 0.6% looks pretty good. It’s all relative, with the US/China trade war as a backcloth, any growth is creditable at present.

  12. Anonymous
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Alas it’s working.

    Where is our Trump ?

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:37 pm | Permalink


      the growth in the US, comes at a very significant cost on the government deficit and it is growing at twice the speed before the tax cuts.

      So, no thank you

  13. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Abstracted from the response to my inquiry to Liam Fox’s department, August 22nd:

    “The Government’s assessment is that under a no deal scenario, imports from the EU would still not be classified as ‘high risk’. This is based upon the reading of the Trade Facilitation Agreement at 7.4 (4) … ”

    “The key criteria are country of origin, country from where the goods are shipped and compliance of traders. Even under a no deal scenario, these imports would constitute low risk because of the certainty of the trading partners and country of origin … ”

    Unless we believe that the continuing EU member states will start to turn a blind eye to any increase in infractions of EU law with respect to the standards of goods exported to the UK there will be no objective reason for increasing checks on those imports.

    And in fact it would be contrary to the WTO Trade Facilitation Agreement to increase the intensity of checks on imports from the EU without any good reason.

    • acorn
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

      As long as the UK increases the intensity of checks to exactly the same at all ports, there can be no WTO discrimination charge against the UK.

      If one UK port had a different inspection regime to another UK port; and those ports had a different group of WTO members using them; that would be discrimination under WTO rules.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

        Wrong WTO allows differences based on risk assessments.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted November 10, 2018 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        acorn, over many months now a lot of other people have been told that this is not correct and have been pointed towards the text of TFA 7.4.4 which shows that it is not correct, so it is a pity you did not notice that.

        ‘Each Member shall base risk management on an assessment of risk through appropriate selectivity criteria. Such selectivity criteria may include, inter alia, the Harmonized System code, nature and description of the goods, country of origin, country from which the goods were shipped, value of the goods, compliance records of traders, and type of means of transport.’

  14. Jeffery Palin
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    The main reason our economy is slowing is because over the last 40 year’s successive governments have abandoned manufacturing in favour of employment in the public sector and high street outlets for banking and retail. Jobs in banking and retail are now under threat from the internet as are their working conditions as we race to the bottom to cut costs which means less revenue from tax receipts leading to cuts in the public sector.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink


      We are still a large manufacturing Country, just not as large as we were, and I agree that employment will change with advances in digital technology, therefore good to hear today that the last quarter produced growth of 0.6% some three times greater than in the EU for the same period, all this despite the hot weather and brexit !

  15. Eh?
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    I wish “Groundhog Day” did not continue to be a term I needed to look up each time and every time someone uses it.

  16. Tad Davison
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    And today, it really stuck in the BBC’s throat to have to report the 0.6% growth in the UK economy for the last quarter. I was surprised not to her the little adjunct ‘in spite of Brexit’ but that will probably follow soon.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 10, 2018 at 8:53 am | Permalink


      I also noticed that they did not compare the UK to the EU this time either.

      They only include EU figures when they are better than the UK’s.

      It really is quite disgraceful that this so called organisation is allowed to constantly undermine the UK in almost every respect.

      They blame government for not spending enough on a whole range of areas, then at the same time blame them for putting up taxes, or borrowing money.

      They do not seem to understand that the Government has no money, it takes it all has from taxpayers, just like the BBC itself.

  17. Ron Olden
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Some of these scare stories are ludicrous beyond belief.

    All anyone has to do is make up some theory, however mad, and the BBC will interview them in support of it.

    Hasn’t the BBC ever heard of ‘vested interests’. People say things for the purpose of promoting their own agenda.

    Following the budget I read on the BBC ‘News’ Website, that that the ‘Asphalt Industry Alliance’ had concluded that £420 Million to fix Potholes wasn’t enough, and that £8 Billion was required.

    I don’t comment on the merits of the claim. But the BBC reported advice from Asphalt manufacturers, to buy more Asphalt from them, as if it were an independently arrived at scientific conclusion.

  18. Simon Coleman
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    It’s not about anyone cancelling supplies – it’s about hold-ups and delays. Are you saying that there definitely won’t be any change at all to the movement of food supplies – in the event of no-deal?

    You have just one tactic in responding to all the questions about the impact of Brexit: say that anyone raising concerns is part of Project Fear. Ignore the questions, so no need to provide answers! Is this really a credible position with time running out? Since when did people like vets sign up to Project Fear?

    Reply What new delays do you think the UK authorities are going to introduce at our ports? The inability to name anybshows this is Project Fear. Parliament has not been asked to impose new barriers

    • Simon Coleman
      Posted November 12, 2018 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

      A vast number of lorries pass through Dover, currently with no checks. In a no deal scenario, they will have to undergo customs checks. The infrastructure isn’t there to cope with such volume, so delays are inevitable. Nobody even knows how to put in place the infrastructure or how long it will take. By the way, how much is the whole emergency planning for no deal likely to cost?

      Reply Why woukd they need customs checks when there are currently no VAT or eXcise checks that hold them up?

  19. Colin Hart
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    If the French authorities want to hold up goods destined for Britain, let them go ahead. Continental exporters will quickly find other ways to get stuff to us. They need the business. Calais will become a ghost town.

  20. James Snell
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Boris Johnson would be a pro remainer too if only he could the job he so badly his brother is on manoeuvres..too late for Boris

  21. Simon Coleman
    Posted November 12, 2018 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    Yes, and heads of scientific research and vets and port authorities…all signed up to Project Fear. Anyone with any concerns about Brexit is just a Project Fear stooge. What a wonderfully black and white world you live in, Mr Redwood. Yet, some of us have a nagging doubt – I don’t know why – that things might not be that simple. But, in the capable hands of Mr Raab, I’m sure we’ve really got nothing to worry about.

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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