The Withdrawal Agreement you are recommending denies us the Brexit you campaigned for. The alternative cannot be staying in the EU , which would be against everything you promised and against the Manifesto you and I stood on in the 2017 General Election.
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December 1, 2018
Dr. Redwood,
There are some people who are ethically bankrupt (a former Labour prime minister comes to mind); you cannot reason with such people, they are only interest in their own objectives. Mr. Gove is simply hanging around waiting for a vacancy to appear at No. 10.
Mrs. May’s appearance at last weeks committee, where she confirmed there is no ‘unilateral right to leave’ for the UK under her Backstop, and that in fact the fears of a hard border in Ireland are a political fiction, should condemn her deal to a final end. At which time she MUST be removed for not having made plans to prepare the country from the effect of leaving on WTO terms.
December 1, 2018
Most are aware that Mr. Gove’s number one priority is Mr. Gove.
December 1, 2018
He’s a typical remainer then, Peter.
Remain = Me and My Bank Balance and Comfortable Life
Leave = the Good of My Country
December 1, 2018
LJ, always difficult to forgo around £1,500 per week if you have a mortgage, kids, and perhaps a strong-willed spouse.
December 2, 2018
Gove recently moved house. I presume he is putting self serving interest before national interest. He is a backstabber, has no credibility or public trust left.
December 2, 2018
All these new tweets sound like you are getting mad Mr Redwood.
As Richter said in “Total Recall” –“It’s about Goddamn time”.
December 1, 2018
BORIS – I predict he will challenge Maybot to a debate in his next Telegraph Column
December 1, 2018
Stewart jackson wrote in ConHome that his first conversation with Gove after he backstabbed Johnso was that he would no longer trust him. Gove lacks integrity to take such action. It was planned not an accident. Why does Gove think anyone would believe or trust him again?
The same with Leadsom and Fox. Leadsom was always flip flopped. Clearly she puts her career before anything else. A dishonourable position if ever there was. Oust Gove, Leadsom and Fox. All have now confirmed you cannot believe a word they say, they lack conviction, honour and integrity in their deed to leave the EU. They stood on a manifesto and made claims that are now clearly false. They all currently make false claims about May’s capitulation agreement. The UK does not need a Withdrawal Agreement to make our country amvassal state with a gun to our heads while a trade deal is discussed. The UK needs o be free, independent sovereign nation from 29/03/2019 while discussing trade. That is what we voted for.
It needs to be repeated over and over, May has failed to get a trade deal ad it will not be signed the nanomsecond after we leave, like her govt promised. Discussions will start. It should be borne in mind Brazil has been discussing its trade deal with the EU for about 18 years!
December 1, 2018
Here is an article which appeared in the Irish Times last Sunday:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136
“WTO says its rules would not force EU or UK to erect hard Irish border”
It would be worthwhile for honest people to make a careful note of this reference, so that the next time some congenitally deceitful Remoaner comes on here with the usual handwaving claiming that some unspecified WTO rules would force the UK to fortify the border they can be both asked to provide chapter and verse of those WTO rules AND told that the WTO does not agree with them.
Note how in the Irish Times article a professor in Dublin immediately responds that the WTO rules are irrelevant, the core problem would be for the EU and the UK to protect their respective markets; but that is not an immediate problem for us, unless the Irish government intends to start turning a blind eye to EU law and allowing non-compliant goods to be sent across the border.
December 1, 2018
But those in thrall to the EU don’t do their research, do they? But simply spout the same old tripe that they read in the Grauniad or can click ”like” to on Facebook.
Do ANY remainers read anything informative? I think they just voted ‘remain’ then sat back and put their fingers in their ears. And, unfortunately, we Leavers sat back and expected our Government to implement our expressed wish to ‘leave’.
Perhaps we on both sides been at fault, and many (most?) in Government have toyed with us, recognising our weaknesses.
All playing into the hands of Mrs May’s EU masters. Clever stuff. If sinister.
December 1, 2018
L Jones
“Do ANY remainers read anything informative? I think they just voted ‘remain’ then sat back and put their fingers in their ears”
After centuries of wasted warfare we now have an EU that is the largest economy in the world. The largest exporter
which contains the world’s richest countries and the top three world tourist spots: France, Spain and Italy.
It has the largest air craft industries, steel, dairy, fashion. beer, cosmetics, luxury goods, mobile telephones, energy, paper pulping,banking, car manufacturing etc etc
It is the envy of the planet and most of the rest of the world would give up everything to join.
December 2, 2018
It is the individual countries in Europe that have all the things you list mararet.
The question is whether these individual fine nations want to remain in what was once a trade organisation but is now hijacked by largely unelected politicians of great power, who want to create a superstate with the member nations citizens under their legal control.
And an increasing number of citizens of nations in Europe are, like the UK, holding a view that they do not want to remain part.
December 2, 2018
**It is the envy of the planet and most of the rest of the world would give up everything to join.**
Everything? Including sovereignty, rights, the right to vote for a government, and the ability to make a living?
I cannot say I have heard any such sentiment from my export partners overseas or from friends on other continents – more amazed pity that we have accepted the abrogation of our rights in such a way.
December 2, 2018
margaret howard
Is that all you are capable of? Just cut and paste the same nonsense over and over despite having had your ramblings debunked with evidence and facts? pathetic
The USA and China are the worlds biggest economies, so by your warped logic the EU should be trying to join NAFTA
“It is the envy of the planet and most of the rest of the world would give up everything to join.”
Ha ha ha ha ha Yes thats why only half of Europe is in it let alone the rest of the world. Switzerland, a European country that is the richest , healthiest and freeist is NOT a member and its right in the middle of the area. You are deluded.
December 2, 2018
libertarian
Switzerland? Out of 27 is that the best you can come up with?
‘let alone the rest of the world’ – maybe that’s why it’s called the EU?
Wiki – Switzerland:
“The government has established an Integration Office under the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Economic Affairs. To minimise the negative consequences of Switzerland’s isolation from the rest of Europe, Bern and Brussels signed seven bilateral agreements to further liberalise trade ties. These agreements were signed in 1999 and took effect in 2001. This first series of bilateral agreements included the free movement of persons. A second series covering nine areas was signed in 2004 and has since been ratified, which includes the Schengen Treaty and the Dublin Convention besides others. They continue to discuss further areas for cooperation.
December 3, 2018
Margaret
Will you now stop saying the UK will not be able to sign any post Brexit trade deals, because you have told us here that Switzerland has signed 16 deals just with the EU?
December 2, 2018
But it wouldn’t be the WTO itself that raises an objection but other WTO members via complaint and dispute. For example, Argentina could complain about beef imports across the Irish border being treated differently than Argentinian beef being imported at English ports.
Of course, technical controls could be applied to both away from the border especially considering the physical treatment would likely be different anyway for Irish versus South American, US and Canadian beef because of the transport requirements anyway.
At present, I apply a Varadkar control and avoid buying Irish beef preferring UK sourced instead. If Mercosur or North American beef becomes available I might add that to the mix.
December 2, 2018
Well, if the Argentinian beef had been admitted to the EU Single Market via some EU port and in accordance with EU law, with all the normal required EU checks on entry, and so its presence in the Irish Republic was OK under EU law, then of course it could be allowed across the border into Northern Ireland without any more let or hindrance than beef produced in the Irish Republic; so what would be the basis of any complaint? That the UK was not applying checks on imports of Argentinian beef which had already been checked by the EU on entry to the EU, but was applying checks on imports of Argentinian beef which had not been checked by the EU?
December 1, 2018
Many MPs and commentators cannot grasp that the people’s decision is final. Vox populi vox dei. There is no higher court of appeal, and no role left to politicians but to submit with as good grace as they can muster.
Though referendums are alien beasts within the Constitution it is interesting to see how powerful they are. The entire Establishment has united to fight against this one, with no result but to waste a great deal of time, generate a great deal of uncertainty and make itself look impotent, foolish and dishonest.
December 1, 2018
Eeyore, the entire Establishment is foolish and dishonest but it is not impotent, it has stopped Bre cut and ensured power is taken further away from the populace.
December 1, 2018
JR, Why did Labour change position? If they remained true to their manifesto in leaving the EU they would be romping ahead in the polls and a shoe in next election.
December 1, 2018
How sadly and profoundly true your post surely is. I suppose millions of us are not the people that the self appointed elite thought we were and they are having some difficulty containing their disappointment.
December 1, 2018
Is Gove so incapable of holding a position – his fluttering must be putting so many people off politics. You cannot believe in a system where people who were ardent supporters of a cause suddenly back the worst possible opposite option.
Gove will never be PM
December 1, 2018
@Bryan Harris; Mr Gove has undoubtedly been unduly influenced by his tenure at DEFRA, the department and its advisor’s being full on eco-worriers and CAP supporters! Can we please, post Brexit, have a department for the production of food, a return to MAFF in words.
December 1, 2018
My father was a proud civil servant in MAFF for his entire career which finished in 1980. He was seconded to OECD, Kenya and Brussels at various points but mostly worked with farmers in Yorkshire and Cumberland/Westmorland. He looked very hard at the EU in his last ten years and before he shuffled off in 2001 had become a hardline Leaver. By the same token, I campaigned for the Yes vote in 1974 and, after some 30 years working overseas, came to look more closely at the EU and have been 100% pro-Leave for some 10 years. Given that Gove is in charge of Father’s old Ministry, I am utterly appalled at the blatantly dishonest manner in which he executes his responsibilities. His outright lies with which he seeks to persuade us that he can guarantee our fishing rights given Macron’s avowed intent to bust these using the back-stop should cause us all to question his suitability for any office at all. I once thought quite highly of Gove. No longer.
December 2, 2018
@Richard Elsy; I have talked with cross section of those with real world knowledge in the (wider) farming industry over the years (and I mean farming, not country land owners), no one seems to have a good word for DEFRA. The problem is not the MP, as a Secretary or Minister for State, since 2001 they have all had the same traits you attribute to Mr Gove. The problem is how and why the department was created, the 2001 Foot and Mouth outbreak was just the excuse eco-worriers within Blair’s New Labour ‘call me Tony’ kitchen government used to radically change the meaning & direction of the department.
December 1, 2018
I came to the conclusion a year or so ago that Gove is May’s Stool Pigeon, why else would He have stiffed Borris and let this Liberal in. I think the likes of you and the ERG john will have to go nuclear and threaten an English breakaway party. I know you want to keep the UK together, but at any cost to England?
December 1, 2018
This would be a sad day in British history and, whilst I can understand the imperative and the justification, I think we need to keep the UK together for a little longer. I doubt if the majority of the Welsh or the Scots wish to secede just yet. I’d be happy to see a majority in Northern Ireland opt to remove their border with Ireland but I doubt this will happen in the next 25 years. There will be a split in the Conservative Party if this atrocious deal goes through. What happens then is beyond my ken.
December 2, 2018
Then there at least has to be an English Parliament above the enforced EU Regions, The English have had one vote (and now some wish to override it) unlike those that were given a vote on devolution and independence if you KEN what I mean.
December 1, 2018
Mr Gove was a Blair groupie-like Cameron and Osborne,he referred to Tone as “The Master”.He played a useful role in the Referendum campaign but was it due to a Damascene conversion or did he see it as a debating school exercise(for what he probably thought was a lost cause)to lift his profile?
December 1, 2018
Well said, John. Sadly, water and duck’s back spring to mind….
December 1, 2018
There is only one way out of this and that is for you Mr Redwood to put your letter in along with others, we need a new PM one who is a true leaver time is running out, the country should be put first you know it makes sense
December 1, 2018
Wait until the Withdrawal Agreement has been voted down, and there will be a much greater appetite for a change of leader. This deal needs to be seen to have failed, so there is no agreement on the divorce package.
December 1, 2018
Mick
It’ll never happen. A lot of conservatives are bought off, those who aren’t simply lack the balls to confront the EU.
As for the letters, well when you consider whats going on in the tory party at the moment I think it would be reasonable to suspect something – ‘isn’t quite right’
December 1, 2018
At one time I thought Mr Gove was one of the more sensible Cabinet Ministers but in the last few years he seems to have lost the plot completely, not only on Brexit, but on many of his other thoughts with regards to the environment, farming, and fisheries.
From appearing to be an original clear thinker, with determination and resolve cut out the politically correct nonsense of Government, he now seems to have joined the complicated and mythical PC world of fantasy.
Such a shame, he is now not a man I trust.
December 1, 2018
Unhappily, I have to agree with you, Alan.
In the past I have admired his skill and clearsightedness…look at Free Schools and his undoubted success at Education. However he seems to have what the rugby player might call white line fever, allowing personal ambition to overcome his rational self and true team spirit
Such a shame
December 1, 2018
Alan, my feelings exactly, sad to say.
December 1, 2018
He has been captured by the Progressive civil servants in Defra, where there is often a revolving door between Defra and NGO’s.
Environmental NGO’s do not want Brexit, because they get funding from the EU and the EU promotes the foolish energy policies which we have taken on-board and encapsulated in the dreadful Climate Change Act.
December 1, 2018
The political backstabbing by Gove of Boris gave you all the information you needed to know. He seeks power, and apparently the end justifies the means, including changing allegiances, breaking promises and more. His contempt for the electorate seems to know no bounds. He is an unprincipled individual in my mind, and does not deserve the title Right Honourable.
December 1, 2018
R H Gove
A waverer – no good to anyone!
December 1, 2018
Michael Gove, such a disappointment – we were all fooled!
December 1, 2018
I have written several times to Mr Gove (my MP) along the same lines. I have received acknowledgement of receipt but no meaningful reply, so don’t hold your breath for a response, John!
I find it unbelievable that Mr Gove continues to support Mrs May’s ‘deal’ after the position he took in the run up to the referendum: he was one of the more visible campaign leaders.
I have also told Mr Gove that he cannot rely on my vote in the future.
December 1, 2018
You should write to his association asking them why he is not deselected after his betrayal of the nation, manifesto and moreover himself. A person that has no honour, conviction, principles and word cannot be trusted is useless to the public and an electoral liability. Ask Clegg and the Lib Dems. He needs to crawl back under the stone from whence they came.
December 1, 2018
At a recent meeting in his constituency he managed to convince them the Agreement was the only option with some vague plan to change it later .He admitted it was not a good deal
I am appalled that on such an important decision concerning the future of the country any Cabinet minister would be happy to accept a flawed agreement
December 1, 2018
Dear Michel Gove
If the the UK agrees this withdrawal agreement, we would be voluntarily placing ourselves into a ridiculously weak negotiating position by virtue of the fact that we would have already made a huge £39 billion payment into the EU budget which we do not owe under international law and for no apparent gain while simultaneously giving free right of access for EU goods exports into the UK market.
If enough MPs like you (i.e. Michael Gove) were to approve this withdrawal agreement, the government would additionally succeed in handing the right to each and every individual member state to hold us over a barrel in any future trade negotiations or plunge us into a permanent backstop agreement which would be many times worse than leaving on WTO terms.
For example, it remains EU policy to link access by EU boats to UK waters to any future trade agreement and even if the EU itself were not to insist on it, several individual EU states have indicated they are likely to use their veto powers to demand continued access to UK waters as the price of a deal. Furthermore, Spain has indicated that they are likely to use their veto power to demand some sort of future sovereignty over Gibraltar.
You are unlikely to restore your friendship with Mr Cameron by virtually ensuring the decimation of your beloved Conservative Party.
December 1, 2018
Indeed but Gove has been a serial traitor to the Brexit Cause. He is the reason we now suffer under the appalling Appeaser May – this after his idiotic knifing of Boris. The May plan (if her dreadful deal fails as it must) seems to be a second referendum, doubtless with options rigged to prevent a real Brexit outcome. Get rid of her.
Real Brexit would be hugely advantageous the real danger is Corbyn.
December 1, 2018
Charles Moore in the spectator this week says:-
“Theresa May, William Hague and others say that the EU will not want to trap Britain in the backstop because it is not in its interest. It will want to move to a free-trade agreement for its own benefit. If that is so, why is the backstop the thing above all others upon which the EU insist?”
Why indeed? May and her civil service negotiators simply have no idea how to negotiate anything. Either that or they are surely just traitors who are not on the UK’s side. It would be a total disaster to agree to this deal and the backstop. It will also be a total disaster to retain May as PM and Hammond as Chancellor. This as they will kill any real Brexit are already damaging the economy hugely, taxing us to death, wasting money all over the place, pushing green crap and increasing red tape everywhere. Please they will bury the party and give us a Corbyn/Mc Donnall disaster to follow them.
December 2, 2018
Nothing complicated about it. They are simply just traitors. End of story.
December 1, 2018
Gove is not to be trusted. That is obvious from his repeated twists and turns.
December 1, 2018
Add Liam Fox and Andrea Leadsom
December 1, 2018
The revolution appears to be eating its own children. Who will be the last rat off the sinking ship Brexit, I wonder? Mr Gove has made his excuses and is obviously intent on avoiding any blame for a no-deal calamity
December 1, 2018
Helena
Unfortunately the rats are at the moment in control, we need to clear them out so that the ship can be sailed into calmer waters by a captain with a known destination.
December 1, 2018
WTO will not be a calamity. Not for the UK anyway. The EU’s £95 bn trade surplus with us is looking a bit shaky though! As are you wild assertions….
December 1, 2018
Lenin said that “Revolution is not a dinner party”;the Brexiteers have been wittering over the canapes.
December 1, 2018
Helena..to remind people..he said two years ago on a BBC documentary that “everything would work out ok provided we take the right decisions”..I supposè in his own laying the groundwork for any eventually.. but we shouldn’t be too surprised, you know what they say about the ratrace that is politics- only a rat can win
December 1, 2018
I am too old not to know the frailties of human nature but the pizza five have taken the gold medal.
December 1, 2018
What has happened to them? That Gove, Fox and Leadsom of all people should support Mrs May’s disgraceful and dishonourable Withdrawal Agreement is surprising. With the government on the brink of making a mistake of historic proportions, they need to forget any Cabinet or Party allegiances and stand up for their country. We will thrive outside the EU.
December 1, 2018
I think the pizza five was govts spin to show how they were won over, when in fact these sociopaths change with the wind on what is best for their career.
December 1, 2018
Fully agree .They have behaved in a cowardly and incomprehensible manner
Does Leadsom really believe that without her so called allegiance to Brexit she would be in Mays Cabinet?
Leave voters have been sadly let down by those who,purport to represent us
December 1, 2018
Mr Gove is unfortunately proving himself to be everything that people dislike about politicians and politics.
If he really thinks that a majority cannot expect to get all they voted for, when given the choice, because 100% did not vote for it, is not only weird -it could be a sign of lack of blood flow to the brain. He should see a doctor and get some pills.
December 1, 2018
This is the same Michael Gove whose actions, after Cameron stood down, resulted in a Remainer, in the form of Mrs May, becoming your leader and Prime Minister. I find him wholly untrustworthy.
December 1, 2018
The same Michael Gove who back in 2004 suggested we should sell UK citizenship to the highest bidders, and suggested a guide price of £10,000.
In case anybody thinks I am just making this up:
https://reason.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/bastiat-2004.pdf
“I propose that we set a price for a British passport, at say Pounds 10,000, and allow anyone either to pay that sum upfront, or remit it to the Treasury over a set period of time, like a student loan. The British Citizenship Bond would entitle the bearer to full membership of the nation after a probationary period of, say, four years during which time the only state benefit available would be individual emergency healthcare. Any criminal offence during that time would result in instant deportation.”
That was nearly 15 years ago, but I have mistrusted him since then.
December 1, 2018
Unfortunately Michael Gove is a prime example of why, after 50 years of voting Conservative, I shall never vote for any Tory candidate again.
December 1, 2018
Michael Gove is my MP and I have voted for him enthusiastically in the past. I have voted at every election that I have been able to for the last 44 years. I decided months ago that if we do not leave the EU in the way that we were promised in the referendum I would never bother voting again. Michael Gove has made me rethink this. Despite voting Conservative for the vast majority of that time, I am now determined that I will vote in the next GE . I will vote actively AGAINST Michael Gove. People can smell a sell out when they see one and this stinks to high heaven.
December 1, 2018
Agreed. We can smell the treachery in Bristol!
December 1, 2018
Mr. Gyimah, the Universities & Science Minister, and a remainer, resigns as the UK’s security agencies conclude it would not be in the UK’s security interests to use Galileo’s secure elements if it had not been fully involved in their development, writing :
“Having surrendered our voice, our vote and our veto, we will have to rely on the ‘best endeavours’ of the EU to strike a final agreement that works in our national interest. As Minister with the responsibility for space technology I have seen first-hand the EU stack the deck against us time and time again, even while the ink was drying on the transition deal.”
“In these protracted negotiations our interests will be repeatedly and permanently hammered by the EU27 for many years to come. Britain will end up worse off, transformed from rule makers into rule takers.”
He then takes the unbelievable view that it would be better to remain in the EU via a second referendum blissfully unaware that whatever damage the EU can do to the UK when it is outside of the EU it is nothing compared to the damage the EU can do to the UK when inside the EU and subject to all the directives, rules and regulations covering taxation, trade, budgetary contributions, immigration, welfare, foreign affairs and energy policies etc. all decided by persons we do not know, we did not elect and we cannot remove.
Stockholm syndrome ?
December 1, 2018
Based on his recent behaviour, I find it hard to believe Mr Gove was ever really in favour of leaving the EU.
Were they really in favour of Brexit, the ministers who refused to resign claiming they would change the Withdrawal Agreement “from the inside” would have resigned the moment the EU told us they would never entertain amendments.
December 1, 2018
Something odd about this guy’s MO.
We should probably ignore anything he says henceforth, good or bad.
December 1, 2018
Mrs. May says her Withdrawal Agreement satisfies the nations’s decision to reduce immigration.
If that is the case, why do we keep hearing that Mrs. May intends to sign up to the UN’s Global Compact on Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration when already other countries, such as the European countries of Austria, Hungary, Switzerland, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Poland, Estonia, Croatia, Slovakia have refused to sign up ?
December 1, 2018
Mrs May tacitly admits that there is nothing about that in the legally binding part of her “Brexit deal”, the withdrawal agreement. Instead she claims that because freedom of movement of people is “referenced” in the “jam tomorrow” part, the non-binding political declaration, then she could automatically get it from the future negotiations, which would only start after we have left the EU.
However there is a small problem that a lot of other, inconsistent, things are also “referenced” or mentioned in that document, one being the EU’s insistence on the indivisibility of its “four freedoms”:
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/27/more-false-forecasts/#comment-976656
“4. The future relationship will be based on a balance of rights and obligations, taking into account the principles of each Party. This balance must ensure the autonomy of the Union’s decision making and be consistent with the Union’s principles, in particular with respect to the integrity of the Single Market and the Customs Union and the indivisibility of the four freedoms. It must also ensure the sovereignty of the United Kingdom and the protection of its internal market, while respecting the result of the 2016 referendum including with regard to the development of its independent trade policy and the ending of free movement of people between the Union and the United Kingdom.”
On Monday I sent a message to Michael Gove pointing this out:
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/26/is-this-the-eus-best-offer/#comment-976442
“You were on TV slavishly following the present government line by falsely claiming that Theresa May’s Brexit “deal” would end freedom of movement of persons.
So precisely where does it say that freedom of movement of people will be ended?
Nowhere, not in the legally binding withdrawal agreement nor in the non-binding political declaration. If you think otherwise, please specify the relevant articles.”
I’m not expecting any sensible reply, because he can have none.
December 1, 2018
Yes, Richard.
Politicians and the media are turning a blind eye to this but it’s all over social media. Then they wonder why trust in politicians is at an all time low.
December 1, 2018
FFS, look at her track record since 2010 the Tories claimed to reduce immigration to tens of thousands. They stood on this for three elections. This was to defeat UKIP. Osborne made it clear that no one in private was going to act on it. Highest record in history for immigration, highest record in history for illegal immigrants being lost, two hundred thousand under May, 56,000 under Rudd this year including 700 ex convicts. We had two terror attrocities before the last election, reduced police officer numbers by 20,000 and an inspectorate saying two weeks ago that in no stretch of the imagination are our borders secure! This is a direct result of May policy failings. People have died and been maimed. In contrast her withdrawal agreement offers to give tens and tens of billions of U.K. Taxpayers’ money to the EU for nothing and part of that is for EDF and immigration and trust fund! This on top of the £14 billion overseas aid! Let us not forget Windrush scandal of hers. If I were Corbyn I would relish the opportunity to work all of this into May to demonstrate she cannot be trusted on any level over immigration. Her record is horrendous.
December 1, 2018
There is also going to be a separate Compact on Refugees. You can see where it is all going.
December 1, 2018
She must be deposed before she can do that.
December 1, 2018
They want to sign this ridiclulous UN charter so that they can posture on the world stage – ‘look how wonderful we are, how caring, how compassionate’
Same reason for giving away £15 BILLION per year is foreign aid.
Yet the UK state pension is the lowest in the G20, despite them continually telling us that UK is the 5th richest economy in the world.
December 1, 2018
Suggested immigration policy:
(1) Immigrants are admitted only through Consulates in foreign countries.
(2) All illegals are sent back automatically without a legal appeal.
(3) No importation of brides, bridegrooms and dependents. If you are admitted, you are admitted alone.
(4) All terrorists are stripped of their UK citizenship after serving their sentences and parachuted into IS territory.
(5) Recognition that multi-culturalism doesn’t work.
December 1, 2018
Original Richard:
1) She lied.
2) Are you really expecting logical joined up thinking from Mrs May?
December 1, 2018
Why would any country ever consider signing a treaty where there is no unilateral means of ending it? No country has ever submitted itself to this sort of indignity before, even after being defeated in war, and there is no advantage to us if we plunge ourselves into such an interminable legal black hole.
And even if some fairer kind of arbitration process were to be devised in some future variant of May’s Withdrawal Agreement in order to allow the UK to leave the backstop, the EU would still have a massive incentive to keep us locked into the backstop for as long as possible so could be expected to string out any such arbitration process for years and years.
December 1, 2018
How he can say he supports this deal is beyond me.
December 1, 2018
John Redwood
I seem to re-call yo told us that the Eu would never agree to a deal in the first place?
December 1, 2018
Keep up with the news – the EU has not agreed to ANY trade deal. What they have agreed is a one-sided withdrawal agreement which kicks the can down the road for a couple of years and will allow them to keep us to all intents and purposes in the SM/CU. The political statement is non-binding and for the birds!
zorro
December 1, 2018
Leave bigwigs Liam Fox, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom are telling you the Withdrawal Agreement IS Brexit. This is as good as it gets.
Perhaps it time to add them to the growing list of traitors which already includes all the living former prime ministers, high court judges, the BBC, civil servants, and countless other decent people.
Or, perhaps it is time to reach the same conclusion as the majority that the problem is Brexit.
December 1, 2018
Andy
I see adding up isn’t your strong point either ( do you actually have any strong points?)
A majority of more than 1 million voted to leave, current polls show 52% wish to leave now on WTO terms .
The majority view is that we’ve been hijacked by middle class, regressive, luddite, remainers
December 1, 2018
So we can’t ever leave the EU ?
December 2, 2018
And people like you.
December 1, 2018
On the radio Sam Gyimah said part of the reason for his resignation was the dirty underhand dealings of the EU, where they rewrote the rules on Galileo to exclude British companies while the negotiations were going on, which begs the question why would he ever want to rejoin such a dishonourable organisation?
Gove and Gyimah exhibit the confusing political logic, where they don’t follow the logic of the argument they make, but do the opposite.
December 1, 2018
Well said John
December 1, 2018
We are all kidding ourselves about Brexit the elite will never allow us to leave. Mays job has been by any means possible to keep us tied to the EU, it does not matter if she destroys the Tory party in the process.
December 1, 2018
To see a politician sacrifice his lifelong political principles for a seat in Cabinet is surely the most depressing sight in public life. I wonder what he thinks when his head hits the pillow before sleep?
A moral vacuum and utterly shameless
December 2, 2018
If politics and principles ever co-existed in the past that time is long gone, never to return,
December 1, 2018
I have some (limited) sympathy with Gove. He calculates that if May’s deal is defeated the outcome will be that we remain in the EU following the pro-remain parliament seizing the initiative. He also calculates that once (partially) out under May’s deal we can attempt to fix some of it in phase 2 of the negotiations. He may be right in his first assumption, it is a plausible outcome.
December 1, 2018
Gove has shown himself to be a back stabbing opportunist that can be easily bought.
December 1, 2018
Its often said that Gove is a smart operator.
In a machiavellian way maybe. After all it was his duplicity that landed us with May in the first place
He made a complete mess of his brief at education, alienating everyone
He is pretty useless at Defra
He has alienated everyone on the Brexit debate on both sides
I wouldn’t trust him in a padded cell on his own
He’s a weasel , he will never be PM ,
December 1, 2018
Two years ago, at a time when I knew M Gove for being what he is, I had to keep my mouth shut because no one believed and it was causing friction in my family circle. So now that Gove is outed for being the unprincipled chancer he is- sweet vindication -but alas all too late- another fox in the hen house
December 1, 2018
When history is written Blair, May and Gove will be recorded as heroes who beat the UK and built the European state. The winners write history and so they will be remembered. Thomson and Arne’s lyrical statement of intent is lost.
December 1, 2018
For “libby” and the rest of the “WE DONT WANT anything from the EU. We just want to leave”. There are lots of EU Treaty internal amendments going through the “trialogue procedure”. This is one that just came out of the oven.
“Today’s provisional agreement means that current manufacturers holding UK type-approvals will be allowed to apply – before the UK’s withdrawal from the EU – to EU27 authorities for new type-approval. It will provide legal clarity, ensure business continuity, and avoid an unnecessary administrative burden on manufacturers.”
The above is the EU pragmatically, looking after its own. The problem is as follows.
“After the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the EU (or at the end of the transition period, if the Withdrawal Agreement is ratified), the UK type-approval authority will no longer be a national authority of an EU Member State. Therefore – without prejudice to the discussions on the future EU-UK relationship – it will no longer be possible for manufacturers to place vehicles on the EU27 market on the basis of type-approvals granted in the UK.”
The Ts&Cs are.
“Reaching an agreement with the UK Government on the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement and the Political Declaration on the framework of the future relationship is not a guarantee that the United Kingdom will ratify the Withdrawal Agreement by 29 March 2019. It continues to be essential that business operators prepare themselves for the UK’s withdrawal – whatever the outcome.”
December 1, 2018
acorn
Yes of course silly us no one from any country outside the EU sells anything to the EU
Some of us actually do this stuff you know acorn .
If you knew the first thing about international trade and approvals FOR ALL THE COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD that stipulate various regulations for product acceptance you would know that this is just business as usual
There are 195 countries in the world. All of them have regulations of one kind or another Theres a group of 27 in Western Europe that have the same regulations, so what , once approved ( currently every single one of our products whether we export or not is approved) we will be able to sell things there , just like we have to do with any NEW product we intend to sell anywhere else. By the way the EU also has to get approval to sell their products in other countries too you know.
Once we leave, the UK becomes the EU’s 2nd biggest market after the USA. I wonder how the EU manufacturers feel about getting our approvals. You never know they may come up with some kind of reciprocal deal !
December 2, 2018
Why wouldn’t our manufacturers have to meet export market approval, just like any market?
But will EU manufactured vehicles meet type approval to be placed in our internal market? It strikes me that in the absence of a trade agreement there would need to be an explicit decision by a UK government to give the EU such a waiver and would’t all other WTO partners then dispute this.
In the current climate of energy sensitivity the first thing I would do is reject EU manufactured electrical goods since their regulations on kettles and vacuum cleaners result in more wasted energy overall than the higher power devices.
And since there is no mutual recognition how can we trust what EU manufacturers claim – where these German manufactured noodles really air dried or did they actually fry them?
December 1, 2018
Wow JR what prompted this?
Allegedly it was because his wife told him to support the Agreement contrary to advice from his ‘officials’.
Guess who she works for, yes the Daily Mail. His performance over the 24 months has been the most shabby of all the senior Cabinet not the least because as one of the sharpest minds, he knows fully the implications of what TM wants to sign up to and nothing gives the game away more than a normally very voluble, almost ‘motor mouthed’ speaker has suddenly come over very shy!
December 1, 2018
John, you mustn’t focus on disingenuous people, don’t assume they have the same morals and integrity as you or people, like Fox and Gove, will get the upper hand.
Focus on where the red lines were crossed and where the UK was sold down the river in this agreement and what positively we can do instead over these matters on a simpler Leave without Selling out Agreement. Where could a few tweaks of this agreement be made to satisfy Leavers.
The thing people like about Boris is his enthusiasm and positive aura that’s why the media try to slaughter him every time he speaks. He needs to articulate where his red ink pen would cross out and what he would want adding in.
December 1, 2018
There was a time, way back, when I thought Gove would have made a good Tory PM. I abandoned that opinion after he publically stabbed Boris in the back and went on to try to replace him. He failed of course because nobody likes and assassin BUT in doing so opened the door to Mrs May who has proven to be the worst Conservative PM since Edward Heath, the man who deliberately misled the British public into joining the EU – via the EEC. With NO SECOND REFERENDUM allowed.
JR is quite right of course. Gove has completed a U-Turn against his own original principles and I can only conclude, despite his talents, this duplicity certainly disqualifies him from holding high office. Thus rendering him unfit to be Prime Minister and I doubt he will be trusted with any ministerial job in the future.
December 1, 2018
Apparently when you negotiate you need to make compromises, which is strange that in this case the EU have clearly made no compromises whatsoever, yet Mrs May has given away all future control over the UK’s sovereignty and asks us to pay £39 Billion for a wish list [Political Declaration] that ties us in to further uncertainty for years with no unilateral way out.
Let’s make it absolutely clear that uncertainly is the WORST of all scenarios for business.
Martin Howe QC is right when he says:
https://lawyersforbritain.org/the-political-declaration-does-not-save-us-from-the-trap-of-the-withdrawal-agreement
https://lawyersforbritain.org/withdrawal-agreement-the-northern-ireland-protocol-is-neither-a-backstop-nor-temporary
December 1, 2018
Mr Gove, I believe, is far too busy with self interest to take good advice.
December 1, 2018
Gove is a gadfly who is only interested in self. May lives in a world where, if she says it ,it is true. A case of bloody minded self deception. Her diabolical amateur resolution of our relationship with the EU must be voted down by Parliament with such overwhelming numbers that she is forced to resign.
She is then just one vote, bringing to the fore the question of why the PM is allowed so much power, but that is one for the future.
We must then vote ,within the conservative party, a true brexeteer to the position of PM. There is then the need to dismiss this WA and the fanciful lala plan for the future relationship which would lead to us just leaving at end March 2019. I have dealt with the so called cliff edge in previous posts so I will confine myself to describing it as totally dishonest propaganda. It is also the cliff edge WTO system that allows us to trade with the rest of the World to the tune of 60% of all our trade,and it is in credit earning income for the country. EU trade is in deficit, it costs us.
I then maintain that there would be so much internal pressure within the EU from their varied industries that sell to us that their governments would be pressurising the EU to get back to the table. As a reality check just look at what is happening in France and Belgium when petrol prices go up. Our departure would be volcanic.
December 2, 2018
This is supportve of your position as I understand it. Why has it not been moderated.
December 1, 2018
Mrs May insists we will regain control of our borders post Brexit meanwhile apparently ( as I posted the other day) planning to sign up to the UN Migration Pact in December. Apart from criminalising any future discussion of immigration this Pact would surely nullify any regained control?
Whatever happened to “ Tens of thousands”?
EU migrants are returning home and unit costs still need to be kept down for big business?Never mind the good old ( former) electorate!
As to Mr Gove..hasn’t he always insisted that the best way re Brexit is to take ANY exit and improve the terms later on?He just forgot to mention that Mrs May’s deal is actually a total, eternal straightjacket ( or possibly Iron Maiden) in the deepest,darkest reaches of E.U Dungeon. Still he need not worry..even if we get a No Deal the UN will doubtless be allowed to take over where the EU left off
December 1, 2018
Good morning – again
Serious words.
Mr. Gove MP, just like Mrs. Leadsom MP seem to me more interested in making sure that they are in a good position for the ‘top job’ should the PM be forced to resign. If so, they are only fooling themselves, as neither have what it takes to either unite the party or, the nation.
December 1, 2018
Politics seems to attract more than it’s fair share of self serving sociopaths..
December 1, 2018
And now Penny whatshername comes crawling out of the woodwork to declare her loyalty to May’s anti-Brexit agreement and the usual nonsense about what’s best for the country.
Well, Penny, I’m more concerned with protecting British democracy from vacuous, empty politicians like YOU who slither and morph to try and justify your pathetic, self-serving hypocrisy.
The victors of the EU referendum want the UK out of the EU as soon as possible and the lies of Penny whatshername isn’t going to change that
The solution is simple. May must be deposed with brutal ruthlessness. Yes, her lackeys will try and slander Tory Eurosceptic MPs using the usual methods of Europhile propaganda but that’s become a blunt instrument and reflects their sheer desperation
I have always believed that the Tories with a Eurosceptic leader would and indeed will smash Labour at the next GE if they campaign on a platform of Leave-EU
December 1, 2018
Mr Gove does what his wife tells him, he is under petticoat government. Now his wife’s employers have gone from Brexit to Remain she is even more keen for us to stay in the EU.
If only the Goves hadn’t knifed Boris, if it was Boris v May I know who us members would have chosen and then we would be leaving properly.
JR, I see Penny has now gone to the other side. How are they blackmailing the leavers to change their minds?
December 1, 2018
Phillip Brandon
“How are they blackmailing the leavers to change their minds?”
Cant speak for JR, but to my mind it’s probably bribery and threats.
December 1, 2018
Mr Gove appears to be completely unprincipled and slippery.
Not a man to be given the slightest credence, leave alone trusted.
December 1, 2018
If you start from a position of ‘as close an alignment as possible to the EU’ as the basis of negotiations to LeavEU this is what you end up with. This is the point of view of May, Hammond and the Civil Service. However, nothing in this proposal binds the EU to do anything, even giving the UK recognition that it has so closely aligned itself. Being in a parrallel Custums Arrangeemnt would not mean the UK would itaself benefit from Zero CET with the EU. Gove is wilfully deluding himself that this proposal would allow the UK to withdraw over time – as far as I can see we can have a referendum to LeavEU but no referendum could get us out of this international one sided treaty.
It is all ‘necessary’ based on the fiction of a border with the irish republic which the WTO cCEO has now publicly stated is unnecessary.
Furthermore there is simply no reason to sign a one sided agreement for this purpose, the UK could simply have stated these ‘close alignment’ policies unilaterally and we would be in the same set of negotiations with the EU for a Trade Deal as is proposed which of course would drag on like the non-ratified Canadian CETA.
December 1, 2018
Apparently Gove backed May after becoming convinced that Britain would run out of clean drinking water within days of a no-deal Brexit.
Does Gove actually believe this tosh – or does he simply spout it? Has he not instructed water companies to ensure they have 3-6 months’ stock of the chemicals they require to safeguard the country’s supply of drinking water?
December 1, 2018
One has to ask if that is the case how bad does a government have to be that it allows a foreign power to control it’s supplies of drinking water.
December 1, 2018
Mr. Gove needs to explain why he believes the UK should sign a treaty with the EU without any unilateral exit clause, unlike the Lisbon Treaty which contained Article 50, and how he sees this is possible if the UK is to be the free, democratic and sovereign nation he campaigned for in the referendum.
December 1, 2018
He takes the mick.
December 1, 2018
Off topic, I’ve dropped a line to the Maidenhead Advertiser as follows:
“On 28 November the government issued two reports entitled “EU Exit”.
The first was a Command Paper, Cm 9741, “Presented to Parliament by the Prime Minister by Command of Her Majesty”, while the second was a propaganda version for the public.
But in both cases the very first line is the unambiguous and unqualified statement:
“On 29 March 2019, the United Kingdom will leave the European Union.”
Yet at the same time as she says this to Parliament Theresa May continues to threaten that she might stop Brexit if MPs dare to vote against her ‘deal’.
Because that date is not only the second anniversary of the delivery of the Article 50 TEU notice, it is also enshrined as “exit day” in Section 20(2) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018; that is the default position, which could only be varied with her approval and at her instigation.
And both these reports also make it clear that the Prime Minister is grossly misleading the public with her unsubstantiated claims about our future relationship with the EU.
Because in truth nothing has been settled; it is all just as much subject to future negotiation now as it was in the aftermath of the referendum:
“The final design of the economic partnership will be the subject of negotiations that will begin immediately after our withdrawal.”
What she misrepresents as being already accomplished facts are in reality no more than “jam tomorrow” aspirations, to be balanced against the determined demands of the EU.”
December 1, 2018
Dennis
” Theresa May continues to threaten that she might stop Brexit if MPs dare to vote against her ‘deal’.”
I don’t think she has the authority Dennis. Besides, a stunt like that would lead to mass civil unrest
December 2, 2018
There is a question whether she could rely on prerogative powers to request an extension of the Article 50 period. Bear in mind that she started off saying that she had the power to send in the notice without any further authorisation from Parliament, so she could make the same argument about requesting a variation of the terms of the notice. I hope somebody is ready and waiting to slap in the request for judicial review before she did that.
December 4, 2018
I note in the Opinion of the Advocate-General to the ECJ:
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2018-12/cp180187en.pdf
“If, as is the case in the UK, prior parliamentary authorisation is required for the notification of the intention to withdraw, it is logical that the revocation of that notification also requires parliamentary approval.”
So it is possible that the ECJ would declare a purported revocation of the UK’s Article 50 notice to be invalid under EU law if Theresa May had presumed to issue it as an exercise of prerogative powers.
December 1, 2018
Give is not worth talking about. His brain is addled.
December 1, 2018
I think most of us saw through Gove in July 2016, I am afraid. A pity – I think he is genuinely a very capable chap, in many ways.
December 1, 2018
Doctors differ and patients die
December 1, 2018
Mr. Gove is yet another pro EU Conservative MP who has been pretending to be Eurosceptic to gain favour with Conservative voters.
These dishonest MPs will be exposed in the coming Parliamentary votes in the next few weeks between now and the withdrawal date.
And there are so many of them that it will lead to a massive defeat for the Conservative Party at the next GE if Brexit is not delivered.
December 1, 2018
I think that Michael is heavily into his Environmental policies and doesn’t want to relinquish his ability to influence policy. If we win the first vote, he will probably dump Mrs May.
December 1, 2018
Mr Redwood.
Don’t expose your back to Gove. You might also distance yourself from him, he’s toxic and the public do not like him one bit.
December 1, 2018
However, beware the worm that turns…
December 1, 2018
Well said. He stabbed Boris in the back so he is running to form.
December 1, 2018
Here we have JR giving advice to M Gove as if M Gove was going to listen. Thing is Gove is a chancer but not stupid he sees the writing on the wall and knows the game is up so doesn’t want to be on the wrong side when history is written. Also by staying in government he is nearer to the centre of power and so has a better chance of blindsiding Boris when the time comes ..so that’s what it’s all about
December 1, 2018
Well done, Sir William. Bill Cash writes in the D Tel online challenging the legality of May’s W A, and saying it has to be stopped:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/01/theresa-mays-brexit-deal-illegal-must-stopped/
Theresa May’s Brexit deal is illegal and must be stopped
December 1, 2018
We see the yellow vests taking to the streets in Paris because they are not happy with price increases. Here we see British people are not happy either for brexit reasons and would love to show government how they feel so they moan and whimper and whinge and write blogs?
December 1, 2018
John
Talking about Gove sticking to the Manifesto is totally naïve.
No political party ever sticks to the Manifest wen they are in power, so stop writing naïve messages, it makes you look rather silly
December 2, 2018
hans
Stop being rude, stop lecturing, and stop being condescending . It makes you look very silly
December 3, 2018
pot? kettle?
December 2, 2018
.This is the kind of nonsense which really brings our country into disrepute worldwide.
We have tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands maybe millions of Russians and former East European Russian allies now in the EU and of course in the UK and the
BBC online reports
““Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said: “We take the security of our bases and personnel incredibly seriously.
“If a member of the public sees anyone acting suspiciously in or around a military base it should be reported to the police as a matter of urgency.””
The cost of a CCTV camera retail online is £39-99p. He can put it on the local Council Tax bills, or hold a raffle at the nearest large pubs to pay for them.
Russia is a severe threat to us, not something to get silly about by coming out with statements like that and getting the silly Fake News BBC to run it out to our people.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46416038#
December 2, 2018
Mr Redwood,
Mr Gove is an extremely articulate man who is now convinced of at least some of the merits of the present proposal. Of course he is entitled to improve his views givern new information. Why should he stick to old ideas. Do you?
December 2, 2018
Mr gove thinks, and adjusts. I admire him. He knows we must agree to mays plan . Best way forwatd
December 2, 2018
Rien
Re Gove. Er you are talking about someone who “changed their mind” when told that the UK would run out of drinking water. Lol OK if you say so
December 3, 2018
I would consider him to be a smart libertarian. Not enslaved to any stupid moralistic ideology hence pragmatic. Of course actual gobvernment should be done by professionals (aka career civil servants) for the simple reason that government is not a task you would entrust to amateurs and quacks. Gove may well have the qualities of a decent professionals, if he would apply himself to a relevant trade.
December 2, 2018
Advice to Micheal Gove, stop building yourself up to be the ‘Compromise Candidate’ once May is forced to stand down. Mr Gove you won’t do a ‘John Major’, in fact, a lot of people blame you for opening the city gates for Remoaner May, and the resulting chaos that has followed. Mr Gove, be a man, stand by your principles and put your country ahead of the personal positioning you are engaged in
December 2, 2018
I’m beginning to wonder what the Establishment Remoaners “have” on Gove. Must be something pretty serious.