Bring it on. There was no need to wait three years. The Withdrawal Agreement was an elaborate snare to try to stop us leaving.
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Bring it on. There was no need to wait three years. The Withdrawal Agreement was an elaborate snare to try to stop us leaving.
Comments are closed.
June 24, 2019
Sir John, I am minded of August 1914. The big problem of the day, the one which was on everybody’s lips, was of course Ireland. That is where the Parliament (mostly on holiday at the time) was fixing its attention.
Then – out of the blue – a crisis with a sort of President Trump character (Kaiser William) taking all the wrong decisions off the cuff, surrounded by a desperate military – Prussians – who had worked out the meticulous Schlieffen Plan already and realised it had to be done unexpectedly and fast.
Rewrite this with August 2019 for August 1914/ President Trump for Kaiser William. Brexit (and the new PM) for Ireland. Now look at the danger we are in.
We have taken our eye off the ball and by Sod’s law, the two main candidates include the Foreign Secretary.
Reply Mr Trump is nothing like the Kaiser and is very reluctant to go to war.
June 24, 2019
Of course Trump doesn’t want a war … nothing about ego but all about avarice .. he owns billions in property assets around the world. Why would he want to see them destroyed in a war. Johnson won’t be allowed to go to war even if he ever wanted to .. but far too clever for that option, although Hunt seems to be making Blair type noises.
June 24, 2019
I agree;his “base” do not want another war,least of all with a mid-rank power like Iran which could inflict sustantial damage on the US and it’s regional allies(all those military bases around the world-no shortage of targets!)-and the Iranians know it.
June 24, 2019
Although Trump has to contend with goading from neo-con nutters like Max Boot,columnist at the Washington Post-sample article this weekend:”With Iran,Trump needs to put up or shut up.The world is quickly learning not to take the US seriously.That’s dangerous for our foreign policy.”
Followed up by a tweet:”Trump…roars like a tiger but actually acts like a scaredy cat.”
June 24, 2019
Iran would be laid waste should they ever carry their ‘phoney war’ outside. Western allies could never sit back – it would be another ‘shock and awe’ annihilation.
June 24, 2019
What is interesting is that Iran do appear to want a war, they really must be hurting financially.
Trump isn’t a fan of war, so Iran will have to make the first move, I really wouldn’t be surprised if they did somethingh rash. The limpet mines were just silly.
June 25, 2019
They would use proxies.It would not be a direct attack by Iranian forces.
June 24, 2019
Some reverse logic there, Mitchel.
June 25, 2019
They would use proxies.It would not be a direct attack by identifiable Iranian forces.
June 24, 2019
The Foreign Secretary position should be passed on to an experienced operator in this department whilst the PM election is being fought around the Country. Hunt can’t do both.
June 24, 2019
Experienced operator”?Like who?We have run our foreign policy largely as a satrapy of the USA for too long.
June 24, 2019
Mitchel, We have run our entire government as a satrapy o0f the EU for too long.
June 25, 2019
When did the EU force us into illegal wars?
June 24, 2019
Good joke – specially in the FO! Itâs Europhile to the core!
June 25, 2019
There’s no contradiction;until Trump Euro-Atlanticism prevailed.
June 24, 2019
William Hague Foreign Office 2010 to 2014
Phillip Hammond 2014 to 2016
When someone in your top team goes out of action you have to move the best previously experienced people around into position.
June 25, 2019
@a-tracy; Cough, but thanks for your opinion!
I do agree though, there are perhaps a few alternate caretaker Foreign Secretary’s to be found on the Govt benches of the HoL.
June 24, 2019
@a-tracy; Whilst I can see merit in not allowing a Leadership contender to use the Despatch Box as a campaign soap-box I’m not convinced that the two leading contenders should have to -in effect- resign, and what of the now unselected candidates, surely they should have had to step away too.
Leadership contests cause enough chaos without adding effective resignations to the mix…
June 25, 2019
I thought the intense hustings were starting this week for the next four weeks, why so long I don’t know but Hunt can’t do both now the election is heating up, what would happen if Hunt was sick for a month who takes over his role then? It’s a similar situation.
June 24, 2019
Dear tracy–Not sure Hunt can do either–I reckon he has made a banana of himself whining that Boris won’t let him play. Boris on the other hand has played a blinder, as he did the other day–Why on earth, except in Hunt’s dreams, should he put his head in even a chance of a noose?
June 24, 2019
Brexit is only the beginning. The key will be winning the post-Brexit debate.
We don’t want to make the ‘Mission Accomplished’ mistake, and end up losing the war.
June 24, 2019
You raise the key point. Many Brexiteers, falsely, believe theyâve won on the day the UK leaves the EU.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. That is when your challenge actually starts.
You actually have to deliver everything you promised in 2016. You have to make everything better. You have to make nothing worse.
And when you fail – and you will fail – then the public will demand to undo what you have done.
You face a battle against reality and demographics. It is a simple fact that the vast majority of younger people (and by that I mean under 45s) do not want Brexit. And, sooner or later, they will be able to undo Brexit if it fails then. And because most Brexiteers arguments are away with the fairies it is inevitable this will happen in the end.
June 24, 2019
It will be interesting to see whether the EU has a strategy of bullying or grooming after Brexit is finally over. I guess the long duration obligations sought by the EU in the WA would allow the EU to put off showing its colours. No-deal (or shorter timescale obligations) would leave the EU open to be judged by all.
June 24, 2019
When we stop paying ÂŁ13 billion to the EU, giving our fishing grounds away for free and ÂŁ2.7b tariff fees we might be a little better off..
And that Is before we get cheaper imported food and better market access to the US.
June 24, 2019
Life will go on after we leave tbe EU andy.
Like the last four decades of our time as a member of the EU sometimes things will be better and sometimes thing will be worse.
PS
Your ageism argument has been refuted many times.
As people grow up their youthful opinions change.
June 25, 2019
with age often comes wisdom……When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. Works for most – but not all.
June 25, 2019
Things are never going back to EU memberhip as before. YOU are the fairy.
June 25, 2019
I’m Gen X which is often confused for Boomer (young people don’t discern over age 40 – to them you ARE old and will be 55 it what will seem like 2 years)
In 2016 my generation was already much poorer than our parent’s, which is why we voted Brexot.
June 24, 2019
A vitally important point to make. If and when we have a clean and proper Brexit, if we fail to make a success of our newly-won freedom, you can guarantee that those who never wanted to leave the EU in the first place will be ready to launch a campaign to rejoin the EU. Only a fool would discount the distinct possibility that we would elect to rejoin, perhaps under terms that made it even harder to leave later.
June 24, 2019
”… end up losing the war” as we have almost done by not taking up the cudgels immediately the referendum was won by Leave. We rested on our laurels, having faith in our government, thinking the mission was accomplished. We were too trusting. Big mistake.
We won’t trust again in a hurry, will we?
June 24, 2019
Leaver
There is no chance of that.
After brexit we have a country to rebuild and a democracy to restore, and a left wing civil service in desperate need of a damn good disinfecting.
June 24, 2019
What a ridiculous analogy! And as for comparing Mr Trump to the Kaiser…! Well.
I don’t think you’ve got much of a grasp on history, to be honest.
June 24, 2019
Nor of the present day.
June 24, 2019
L Jones
I agree Mr Trump is not in anyway similar to the Kaiser.
June 24, 2019
According to AJP Taylor, the 1st World War broke out more by accident than design, due to inflexible railway timetables that could not be amended, once mobilization had begun.
June 24, 2019
And inflexible alliances,creating a domino effect.
June 24, 2019
The Great War began because that was what the German Imperial Government wanted. This was all laid out in the infamous War Council held in December 1912, and actually they viewed 1914 as the optimum time to strike. Read Prof. Rohl biography of the Kaiser.
June 24, 2019
Nonsense, Mike. President Trump is working for peace, and has probably done more than any other US President for world peace. Your comparison with the Kaiser is ridiculous.
June 24, 2019
I’m afraid Mr Redwood is beginning to sound more like a Daily Mail reader than a seasoned politician.
June 24, 2019
Good Morning Sir John,
Exit day…. lead by who? Has Mr Johnson crashed and burned already? I do hope your party’s more stable minds are working more closely with Mr. Farage to produce a party with 600 odd people, who WILL give us an Independence Day.
June 24, 2019
On Today programme, Mr. Hunt admitted he would delay exit to continue negotiations with the EU. This would occur because he would have to give the HoC a binding vote on leaving without a deal, if that would avoid having a vote of confidence in his government (that he expected to lose because of the Remainer majority of MPs). He would not want to call a general election because it is clear the Tories would be wiped out.
The Conservative Party needs to allow its local associations to sack their MPs and select new representatives, then go for a General Election ASAP.
June 24, 2019
I disagree. I think the new PM should call Parliament’s bluff and just run the clock down. You know, like we thought Treason was doing before we realised she was a totally mad, congenital liar.
All the Grieve’s in HoC can tear their hair out trying to get the Scum on the green benches to go ahead and vote for annihilation, with Mr Farage licking his lips. I’m betting there won’t be enough takers for that course of action. Good luck on that Dominic.
It all depends how much resolve Mr Boris has. I reckon Raab would have gone for it.
June 24, 2019
J R-Mogg speaking on LBC today said that if there were a ‘Vote of no Confidence’ and some Tory MPs voted against the Government then they would automatically be kicked out of the party and be barred from being a prospective candidate thereafter. How many Tory minds would ‘self interest’ bring into line?
Would the new PM be brave enough to take that gamble? And also, gamble on the ‘self interest’ of sufficient Labour members in ‘Leave’ constituencies supporting the Government? – We know 26 sent a letter to their National Executive warning against adopting Referendum2 – and it is rumoured there would be more! 26 would be enough to defeat the motion.
I have no doubt that the May clone would not be brave enough – Boris might be?
A plea to Tory Members! For the sake of the Country – Do not elect May 2.0!
June 24, 2019
Some accommodation with the Brexit Party will surely still be needed.
June 24, 2019
Peter Wood
“Mr. Hunt admitted he would delay exit to continue negotiations with the EU. This would occur because he would have to give the HoC a binding vote on leaving without a deal”
Hunt’s comments have him down as a wrong – un as far as I’m concerned, and also the fact that he’s a remainer.
Moreover, there can be no legal HoC vote concerning exit without a deal, since the default position is that we leave on 31st Oct. They would have to extend again, or revoke, both of which suicidal for the conservatives.
June 25, 2019
The Conservative Party needs to allow its local associations to sack their MPs and select new representatives, but with votes only for members of some time qualification.
June 24, 2019
Yes, but true detatchment is dependant on Boris becoming PM and then having the political will to drive it through. It is down to the views of 160,000 people and then the support he gets within the conservative party and DUP within the Commons. Though I suspect that as leaving the EU is treaty change it can be effected by a determined PM and like minded Cabinet. The HoC has largely confirmed it’s unsuitability of purpose over the past year of effort to subvert democracy.
June 24, 2019
People left the Conservative Party in droves, cancelling their membership, not so long ago.
Was this another cunning and convoluted plan of Mrs May’s cohort to diminish the number of right-thinking ones in the party who might have voted conclusively for a Brexiteer?
Or am I becoming a conspiracy theorist?
June 24, 2019
No! You are completely sane! When the leader of the gang said 108 times that we would leave the EU on 29th March, then doesn’t, you can rightly assume that the May crowd is capable of perpetrating any deed, however dastardly!
June 24, 2019
Agricola – rather off topic, I have replied to your post of 6.47pm yesterday re crayfish, quoting from the work of Universities Federation for Animal Welfare – see item on their website for 16 May 2018: ‘Should crabs and lobsters be given the benefit of the doubt and included in animal welfare legislation?’ A difficult one, I know, but dropping them in boiling water without pre-stunning? Not for me, thank you! I think we can do better – e.g. CO2 is used to narcotize pigs in some abattoirs. I’m sure UFAW could advise. Amazing what you learn on this blog đ
June 24, 2019
Agree 100%. I don’t see why it should be in the hands of the EU to tell us how long the Article 50 extension should be. Also don’t understand why it takes another four weeks to get a new PM.
Answer: Boris confirmed by the end of this week. Announce on Monday that the Government will not contest the English Democrats case. Out on Tuesday – but backdated to March 29th.
UK can function independently. Businesses can invest with certainty. All problems solved !
June 24, 2019
“The Withdrawal Agreement was an elaborate snare to try to stop us leaving” – exactly so! And what does that say about T. May and all those who supported her?
June 24, 2019
Exactly – Hunt being one of them. He backed her and her surrender treaty to the end and he wants us to back him for PM. The same Hunt who is attacking Boris on the airwaves this morning calling him a coward. If anything this blue on blue attack is cowardly and unseemly and if he (Hunt) becomes PM then the Tory party are finished. Long live the Brexit party.
June 24, 2019
At last it can be said openly by those whom we can trust. What a pity it took so long. (Though, to be fair, Sir JR never supported it.)
It’d be a vast relief to hear Mr Johnson saying it too – but perhaps he’s playing the long game, and that had begun when he voted for it.
(I used to think that of Mrs May though….)
June 24, 2019
Let’s not forget those Conservative ‘leave’ MPs like Boris, JRM, David Davis, etc., who voted for the surrender treaty on it’s third time round. I cannot understand why ANY leave MP, especially ERG members, would vote for it unless they had not read it and understood its disastrous consequences. Any suggestion that they thought it could be amended after we ‘left’ the EU was either wishful thinking, self delusion, or desperation.
I find it hugely ironic that the UK has been saved from the WA catastrophe by the remain MPs in Labour, SNP, Independents, Plaid Cymru and Dominic Grieve and his cohorts. And I am deeply grateful to the 28 true Conservative leave MPs such as yourself Sir John, Steve Baker, Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen, Mark Francois and my constituency MP, Andrea Jenkins.
June 24, 2019
Even the term ‘Withdrawal Agreement’ is a deliberately misleading title designed to create a sense of finality. The arrogance and shameless contempt defies all sense of normal limits.
It is not Withdrawal but a prison sentence
It is not an agreement but a set of restrictions written by Merkel and the EU and delivered to us on a tin platter
June 24, 2019
Dominic, Whilst I largely agree, the evidence of the “Kit-Kat” tapes shows that the UK’s civil service connived with the EU to deliver Remain, but disguise it as Leave. Betrayal and corruption are rife in the whole Remain establishment. As JR says about the fear-braying Remainers – we don’t believe you.
June 24, 2019
As the day of our liberation approaches, the Government might like to order the BBC to start its news bulletins with the first bar or two of Beethoven’s fifth symphony.
(BBC staff enthusiastic co-operation can be obtained by telling them it is a tribute to the Evil Empire: they will not know any better.)
June 24, 2019
Surely a few bars of ‘Prussian Glory’ would be more appropriate.
June 24, 2019
Hear hear. But the counter-revolutionary forces, under their new leader, are regrouping again. Having no arguments left, they now seek to do by character assassination what they could not achieve by honourable means.
If grace under fire is the true mark of character, I suggest that Boris is winning that test too.
June 24, 2019
Eeyore, This is sock-gate. Someone who puts one sock on inside out is obviously unfitted to be PM – the Mirror says so!!! Let’s stay in the EU the Remains bray – because of a sock!
June 24, 2019
Reading that headline I felt a tiny frissony memory of that glorious night three years ago.
Yaaaaaay!
As JR says…Bring It On!!!
June 24, 2019
I will not be voting for Boris Johnson if he continues this facade of avoiding public debate. Weâve had that already with May, and look where it got us. The whole point of Mr Johnson is that he goes out into the open and speaks freely. What weâve seen from him so far in this contest is frankly pathetic. I thought it would change once the parliamentary stage was over, but he continues to avoid debating Hunt, Avoids answering questions directly, avoids his previous commitments to tax cuts etc etc.
Disappointing performance so far.
June 24, 2019
I think so far it is clear that it is a great shame Mr Gove was not the second candidate. He would have stood a credible chance of beating Boris Johnson and making this a real contest.
June 24, 2019
Agreed it is a pity Gove didn’t make it. Boris needs to seriously shape up his act – is he really shying away from a head to head debate with Hunt? How come his campaign are in such a muddle about fundamental things such as GATT 24 and whether or not there is an ‘implementation’ period?
June 24, 2019
Richard1, I don’t think there is a “muddle” about GATT Art24 – its use is quite clear. However the EU is within its rights to decline to use it. The EU is only interested in its own power, not in neighbourliness, so if it sees an advantage in declining Art24 it will.
June 24, 2019
And Gove is so reliable isnât he? Consistent is the word that springs to mind? Gove is a reporter – not a decider. Good job he is out.
June 24, 2019
Just let him get the UK out of the EU at the end of October – he seems committed to that. Then he can go for all I care. The man’s a mess.
June 24, 2019
But Dave, he is a serial “letter downer”, so fingers crossed……..
June 24, 2019
You have got to be kidding William these debates are a farce. They aren’t debating at all the media is screwing up so why should our prospective Prime Minister get caught up in their opinion format, negative, snake pit. Boris Johnson’s people should get him daily blogging, with podcasts and interviews.
June 24, 2019
It would be one thing if he was passing up these debates to hold rallies, conduct interviews and get eg LBC to mediate. But he is shying away from all public scrutiny and head to head competition.
Reply He will do all the public hustings which include ones that are live streamed to a wider audience. He is also speaking around the country and taking questions as in Reading last week. There is no advantage in more exposure to media interviewers out to get him who are not balanced between the two candidates.
June 24, 2019
Reply to reply
It is nice to hear that Johnson is willing to take questions. Providing clear answers to them is another matter. So far, he has failed to do this. He has much explaining to do – primarily concerning the coalition of support he has constructed which accommodates a wide spectrum of views on how Brexit ought to be delivered, and also on how he proposes to achieve a clean and proper Brexit against the will of the present Parliament. As things stand, it seems that you and other MPs like you, are hoping that Johnson is not being straight with the other factions that constitute his support, and further hoping that committed remainers such as Clarke and Grieve are bluffing when they say they will not stand for a clean and proper Brexit. As the expression goes, it’s the hope that kills you.
June 25, 2019
Given the devious actions of the present PM, cabinet members, and so many so-called loyal Tory MPs, how can you possibly expect Boris to guarantee anything as at 1st Nov? He must surely know his party and his career is finished if he allows a backtrack on Leaving, with future trading agreements to be determined either prior or soon after. If the EU raises tariffs we will match them, but at least we can develop trade elsewhere.
June 24, 2019
I’m not a party member so I don’t get a vote on electing the next Prime Minister so whatever Johnson or Hunt say to me isn’t going to get them elected. However, in the bigger scheme of things once in the role this Prime Minister has a massive job to bring the whole Country with them, especially with Ministers like Ken Clarke threating to bring the whole house of cards down. Hunt calling Johnson a coward … please … it’s just so tiring and disruptive and childish. They should be using this leadership election to enhance the Conservative reputation and what good they have done and hope to do not attack the OTHER.
John, it takes a couple of hours to set up a blog. A daily post direct wouldn’t go amiss from Boris’ pen, allow moderated comments and answer challenging comments would give public scrutiny and debate to his proposals and allow some thinking time and space.
June 24, 2019
Reply to reply
I fear you & others might be making an error of judgement Sir John. Media bias is not a good enough excuse to avoid a head to head debate. He should call out the bias live on air as eg Farage would have no trouble doing, then move on. Reality is most of his electorate agree the media are biased, but would still like to see the debate(s) and clear policy commitment.
Also, the hustings/interviews are not a satisfactoy substitute to the scrutiny and exchange of ideas that a direct debate would facilitate.
June 24, 2019
I agree. I gather that he has already lost about 10% of his lead over Hunt. Are we witnessing a meltdown similar to May’s at the general election? Perhaps. If I were advising BoJo I would suggest that he:
a. Issues a comprehensive press atatement about the fracas – and then tells the Press that he will make no further comment on the matter.
b. Puts more effort into mastering the detail behind his policy proposals. Detail can be boring but he needs to counter the suggestion that his ideas haven’t been through.
c. Starts speaking in whole sentences and tries linking them together.
Although (a) is easily done, (b) and (c) are difficult for a person of BoJo’s age to rapidly adopt.
P.S. In a three-way hustings, Gove would be looking very good right now.
June 25, 2019
a) nonsense! are you going to explain detailed who said/did what in your every domestic?
b) policy proposals are proposals – detail has to be worked out. Intent is enough.
c) Given the current divisive, leftie, career building nature of questioning and interruptions it becomes impossible to detail or even finish the explanations. It should be made clear at the outset that interrruption will not be taken, a raised hand will signify stop now, or I finish this interview. Techniques to control the disgraceful behaviour of interviewers need to be learnt.
June 24, 2019
It’s as clear as the nose on your face that there is a massive push to discredit Boris. His best defence is not to give them any ammunition, and as we know from experience, whatever he says will be twisted to mean the opposite. That’s how it works these days, no holds barred, contempt of the truth, and every other dirty deed, in their attempts to get another remainer as PM.
June 24, 2019
William1995,
I see it differently. Hunt has focussed on his negotiation skills, Gove on his analysis skills. Both seemed to have picked out their strong points for being part of a Government (though who would trust either) but not skills to lead a party and country. Both know that these skills can look good in public debate, but it does not mean they deliver the big picture. Johnson has communication and leadership skills, in London these skills and deputies (e.g. Cleverly and Malthouse) allowed him to execute. This is the difference that the UK needs now – execution through communication, appropriate delegation etc. The Conservatives (and even Brexit) have only a small chance of survival at the moment, but with a Johnson team there is some (hence the concerted attacks) with Hunt there is zero.
June 24, 2019
Perhaps a case in point is that Mr Johnson has both Hancock and Francois on side, whilst Hunt is trying to break up this coming together. From the outside it looks like Mr Johnson has a team and plan ready so that the Govt can kick on, which he is avoiding sharing too publicly because of the enemies massing. In contrast Mr Hunt wants to kick the can down the road, presumably in the interests of his career and his self-service skill of more negotiation. It appears Mr Hunt wants to be more May than May.
June 24, 2019
It was indeed an elaborate snare prepared by May (and supported by Hunt) and many other traitors to defraud the electorate out of any real Brexit while pretending they had delivered it. These people are still all at it.
Nick Robinson (just now) had an absurdly biased and tedious anti-Boris interview on radio 4 with Priti Patel. Entirely typical of the endless BBC/pro EU bias. Still about 5:1 average pro remain on any BBC political Question Time/Any Questions types of programmes.
Why on earth would anyone vote for a Continuation May Nightmare part II in the form of Jeremy Hunt!
June 24, 2019
Yes but Priti Patel did not provide clear answers on GATT 24 nor on an ‘implementation’ period. Boris’s campaign is all over the place at the moment and he himself is invisible. Where are the (very few) articulate Conservative MPs who are capable of answering these questions such as JR and JRM? We don’t hear them. I think Hunt might win.
June 24, 2019
Ms Patel could have come up with a newly minted example of an EU reg we would be better off without – the suppression of a study into oxo-biodegradable plastics. This is a sector where UK companies lead and perhaps established European chemical businesses will be on the back foot, so regulators will protect them. Only one of many many examples of the stifling of innovation, but we are often asked for examples of EU regs the UK would be better without and here perhaps is another.
June 24, 2019
Hunt is just May the sequel – it would be a disaster for the UK and destroy the Conservative Party. It is in the EU’s interest to have some sort of trade deal and clearly there will be some kind of implementation period of some form.
It is not really wise to detail exact plans in advance anymore than one would announce your plans in advance of any serious negotiation or indeed in a war.
Boris does at least see the very many advantages in leaving. Hunt would be another ‘damage limitation’ person just like T May.
June 24, 2019
Boris unquestionably sees the many advantages for himself in championing Brexit. He’s in with a chance of realising his lon standing ambition to be PM. He is yet to convince the majority of people that he sees himself as a public servant acting out of a sense of duty for, and in the best interests of, the nation. Rather, many people suspect, or believe, that he is motivated solely by personal ambition. I am sure that any who are, and who will, support his candidacy do so hoping that his selfish interests and the national interest align, if only for long enough that Brexit can be achieved. There’s nothing wrong in hoping for the best in dire circumstances, but let’s be honest about this rather than pretending that Boris is the white knight. (And I am aware that you yourself have qualms about Johnson. We are all (mostly) friends here. There’s no harm in expressing our concerns about the man that our kind host, whom almost all of us have a great deal of respect for, has chosen to support.)
June 25, 2019
ha ha…..motivated solely by personal ambition. I think that covers 95% of MPs of all parties. Moving on ….
June 24, 2019
An upbeat interpretation – I hope youâre right!
June 24, 2019
I can see Jeremy Hunt winning too.It was my view,expressed here weeks ago before the whole process started,that Hunt would be the Establishment choice-nothing clever,or Mystic Meg-ish on my part;just flaming obvious!
It would have been better to take a punt on,say,Raab than to go with Boris if Brexit was key but too many Tories seem to be more interested in who can face off against Corbyn in the next GE.
June 24, 2019
Both candidates have said they are totally committed to ‘leaving the EU’ by the 31 Oct. Unless I’ve missed it, which is possible, neither candidate has been asked whether they consider Theresa May’s WA, if amended here and there, would qualify as ‘leaving the EU’. Until we are clear on this, both candidates remain risky. In the meantime we need to use the Brexit party as a means of holding their feet to the fire, whoever wins
June 24, 2019
We certainly do.
June 24, 2019
So Tobias what’s his name has said that he and a dozen others are willing to bring down the government if they pursued a no deal strategy.
One good thing is we now know unequivocally who the fifth columnists are.
Putting a Marxist government in power rather than leave the EU says it all. I’m warming to this outcome so we really can clear out the rotten stables.
A dose of Corbyn would wake up the snowflakes.
June 24, 2019
Can you imagine Ian if it was the right wing threatening to bring down the government? Tobias is a real disappointment saying this.
June 24, 2019
Indeed except Corbyn would probably cost me several ÂŁmillion, the UK very many ÂŁ trillions and hundred of thousands their jobs and houses. Just the threat of him is already costing huge sums and deterring investment. All thanks to the appalling May/Hammond and the fifth columnists for making him really quite likely.
Though I still think he can just about be avoided with a sensible new PM.
June 24, 2019
Indeed, it also helpfully exposes the lie at the heart of the Tory Remainers. They claim their concern is about the economic cost of a no deal Brexit, but they threaten to bring down their own Government and so help install a hard line Marxist one who will turn our economy into a Venezuelan one. Now I have heard a lot of project fear claims but so far they haven’t claimed Brexit will reduce us to eating our own pets. So these Tory Remainers cloak himself in the lie that their objection to Brexit is an economic one, but really it has nothing to do with economics, they are EU fanatics and that is all they care about.
June 24, 2019
Exactly right.
June 24, 2019
Sir John….If your loyal MPs do not react as strongly as they ever have, roundly condemning Tobias and the mob, pursuing whatever it takes to kick them out, then your party is pretty likely to be in the wilderness for at least 1 parliament. Boris and Leaving the EU by November is your only hope of staying in government. Anything less and humiliation at the polls is certain.
June 24, 2019
Can we expect independence under future PM Hunt on 31st October? With the media, neighbours and other London locals pursuing and victimising Mr Johnson it appears we are going to be left with PM Hunt and (i) a Hunt delay or WA, (ii) a broken democracy and (iii) a nasty politics free from reason or decency.
Still, Mr Hunt the negotiator seems worthy of trust – the man who seemed to forget he had seven flats in Southampton, seemed to ignore Cameron’s money laundering rules and avoided tax by a dividend by specie than lease back arrangement.
“we don’t believe you” is looking like it’s here to stay.
June 24, 2019
”…. pursuing and victimising Mr Johnson…”
Yes, but the vast majority of people see this for what it is. Attempts at victimisation and vilification by his opponents for their own ends, and clumsy attempts at that. We should remember that empty vessels (vassals) make the most noise and this is amply illustrated by the remain element, on their ‘marches’, in Parliament, on social media, etc.
Mr Johnson can easily rise above it, so let’s hope his supporters do too.
June 24, 2019
I hope you are correct.
June 24, 2019
I find it utterly disgusting that May, and other politicians, tried to force the surrender Treaty (the WA) upon the UK. It completes the destruction of democracy that they seem to desire in their pursuit of remaining in the EU.
I cannot believe that the British people have no means to instantly demand the removal of such undemocratic politicians. Has this been the aim all along? To destroy democracy? It has certainly been sidelined and deliberately avoided since the days of Heath.
There is a democratic deficit in the EU, which is spreading to each of its member ‘states’.
June 24, 2019
Well said Shirley. I totally agree with your sentiments.
June 24, 2019
Spot on Shirley. There are some evil anti democratic forces at play within remain. At the moment there is a lack of realisation within the EU that their WA has been sussed for what it is. They do not understand that the Mother of Parliaments has thrown it out three times. An example of democracy at work. One senses that their frequent return to it’s significance for them, overlooks the fact that it is no more than a cadavour in history for those who were meant to be subject to it.
May’s covert creation of the WA and her myopic promotion of it post Chequers, must go down as one of the greatest crimes against democracy and truth ever perpetrated by a UK politician.
June 24, 2019
If it wasn’t for the Referendum shining a light on the true influence of the EU, I believe that we would have been sleepwalked (in 2022) into a Federal European Superstate, by way of the self-amending Lisbon treaty. How many Remain voters are aware of this upcoming transformation of their beloved EU? Has it been publicised on the BBC? It was the overwhelming reason I voted to leave 3 years ago.
June 24, 2019
Some Tory MPs, professing to be pro-Brexit, press the point that a âno dealâ exit from the EU is the default but that they hope for a withdrawal agreement of some form to be achieved instead.
That is weak and unlikely to concentrate the minds of the Brussels mob.
No deal should not just be the default but the only way to proceed. If it is made clear that the UK will withdraw – without strings – at the end of October, then everybody can and should prepare accordingly.
In the process the UK may welcome approaches made by the EU to make arrangements to untie existing connections and for future relations (trade, border controls and so on) but that must not amount to the making of a âwithdrawal agreementâ, which in any case is by now a debased and reviled concept.
For crying out loud, MPs must show some muscle!
June 24, 2019
Apply the Kiss principal. Keep it simple stupid.
Leave the EU on WTO terms asap while offering the EU two options.
1.
Leave on WTO terms and present them with a draft FTA. Suggest joint invoking of Art 24 of GATT to ensure continuity of current trading arrangements until such time as an FTA is agreed. This is leaving with a deal.
2.
If the EU say no then leave on WTO terms. They had their chance and blew it. They have their industrialists to answer to.
Many day to day arrangements for a normal UK / EU relationship after Brexit have been settled. Others that have not could be put into a treaty under the auspices of the Vienna Convention. As to the Irish border, ignore it, just interchange all the required trade information electronically. If Dublin/EU wishes to erect a hard border let them. Do the EU know how many
That’s it in a nutshell, but no doubt the wittering classes WCs will continue to clutter the media.
The WCs can the move on to climate change of which they are equally ignorant.
June 24, 2019
Duyfken
“No deal should not just be the default but the only way to proceed”
Exactly. However I suspect they’ll put Hunt into No 10. He of course will give us a load of BS and try to delay, revoke, or get the surrender document through.
The only way to stop these filthy remainers is to get rid of them.
June 24, 2019
A vicious trap – simply by implying that we need âagreement to withdrawâ. But the British people have sussed the lies and are really very angry. We play it straight and when our own government try to fool us – well, surprise when they reap the whirlwind? Because we are kind and generous we are taken for fools. Big mistake.
June 24, 2019
How come Hunt can have happy snappy photos taken holding fish to further his career and personal ambition when there is a crisis with Iran? Why does he think it is okay to make disparaging remarks about Johnson to justify himself while clearly he should be working in his current day time job which he gets paid for?
The media should be taking him to task.
I had a few quarrels with the missus over the last year it has not changed my mind or altered my opinion to what I do every day and still think we should leave the EU. I suspect the same is true with Johnson.
MSM will use anything to smear and derail him. Shame on Hunt for going along with it. If Hunt showed a little more back bone with Mayhab by criticising her position or standing up against her awful servitude plan perhaps we could have left by now! How come he can now tell us he can get a renegotiation when he could not before! He has always been in servitude cabinet. What a worm.
June 24, 2019
It still is an elaborate snare. I suspect that Jeremy Hunt would push through a cosmetic version of the treaty if he was elected leader.
June 24, 2019
I saw an article, which seemed fairly well researched , that May’s WA was really something hatched between May and Merkel that kept us in or shadowing all the EU institutions so that Brexit could be reversed when the public wasn’t watching.
June 24, 2019
I read that a series of NHS blunders has led to death of (named individual ed).
Yet another one of thousands failed every year by a system that can never be efficient as currently structured and funded. Yet Jeremy Hunt did nothing to sort it over his five years. A damage limitation and endlessly apologise (for it’s many blunders and far worse) strategy.
We surely do not want this man as PM do we?
June 24, 2019
How true!
June 24, 2019
“The Withdrawal Agreement was an elaborate snare to try to stop us leaving.”
I understand it might be difficult for you, a long time (etc ed) senior member of the Tory establishment to give any support whatsoever to Robin Tilbrook’s case against the government.
But Theresa May has probably acted outside her authority, in her dealings with the EU. So if you have an interest in the application of the law, you ought to, for once, put country before party.
Reply I am all in favour of the court deciding we have already left. I made the case against delay in Parliament with Bill Cash.
June 24, 2019
APL, have you also see the legal opinion put forward by Stanley Brodie QC? See: https://lawyersforbritain.org/article-50-of-the-treaty-on-european-union-what-it-actually-says
He analyses the request made by outgoing Prime Minister Theresa May under Article 50 for an extension of the UKâs EU membership until 30 June 2019, and concludes that this request was legally valid; however, it was rejected by the EU.
He reasons that the counter-proposal by the EU did not comply with the terms of the proviso to Art.50(3) TEU, and accordingly that is was not effective in law to stop the Article 50 process running up to and including 29 March 2019 at 11.00pm. He concludes:
Whichever way one looks at it, the Agreement was either unlawful or made for an unlawful purpose or ultra vires .That means that the UK left the EU on the 29th March 2019 by default as there was no valid or lawful impediment to prevent it.
June 24, 2019
Sir John either you are correct and the SI was illegal – in which case we have left, or Boris can invoke the SI and change the exit date as a first action and take us out within hours of becoming PM.
Frankly as long as we are out I donât care, but we need to remove all hope from Remainers ASAP.
June 24, 2019
APL: ” a long time (etc ed) senior member of the Tory establishment .. ”
Your edit rather gives the impression that I wrote something untrue or incorrect or perhaps rude.
I may be more toward the edge of the bounds of socially acceptable comments than many of your other commentators, on this occasion, I posted nothing untrue, nor rude.
June 24, 2019
You must take great pride in the way your fake views, continue to delude poorly educated people who will , of course be the first victims.
“There will be no tariffs, there will be no quotas ( blah blah) GATT 24, or whatever it happens to be..( blah blahâThat is going to be right up there with ” Easiest Negotiations ever” and , let it not be forgotten; you support this lie.
There will be tariffs and quotas- the question is whether we can unilaterally allow EU imports free of tarrifs without breaking MFN rules (or having no tariffs whatsoever ). As fas as I can see there is no way round this other than simply ignoring the rules.
June 24, 2019
Well it’s clear we could go for unilateral free trade as advocated eg by Patrick Minford. As far as I understand gatt24, so long as the EU agrees (admittedly a big If) no-one is going to force mutual tariffs. It says an FTA has to be under negotiation not that it has to be agreed. Anyway Could be Minfords idea is a good one – its worked v well elsewhere.
June 24, 2019
Yes, but if the EU were to reject an offer of GATT24 then it would be clear, to all EU citizens and businesses, exactly who wants to disrupt trade.
June 24, 2019
Are these the “poorly educated people” who, not being too bright, voted the wrong way in the referendum? People who are so easily deluded that perhaps should not qualify to participate in our democratic system? Do you ever read back to yourself what you write? Your arrogance and self-righteousness is odious.
June 24, 2019
Bang on piglet. Never a post from a Remainer without an insult or a sneer. I wonder if he is worried that ‘less educated than himself’ people clear his rubbish and filth away, or provide goods and services he needs daily? I wonder what he does that is so vital to the country.
June 24, 2019
Newmania
Britainâs lead in âbiodegradable plasticâ stymied by Brussels
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/06/23/britains-lead-biodegradable-plastic-stymied-brussels/
Construction industry salaries are soaring in the face of skills shortages that are being exacerbated by Brexit.
You told us there would be no planes…. Wrong
Regulation (EU) 2019/502 ‘Common rules ensuring basic air connectivity with the UK’.
Meanwhile the genius that is Newmania STILL can’t work out how to sell insurance in the EU ……Doh
June 24, 2019
ha ha – even Nick Clegg has said this morning that there was no âRussian influenceâ and that Anti-EU sentiment runs deep in the UKâ. Grow up, face facts, your self delusion is becoming dreary for the rest of us.
June 25, 2019
Clegg speaking as a VP of Facebook is hardly going to say Russia used techniques (available to Facebook) to influence the outcome of anything!
June 24, 2019
Newmania, When you get down off your high horse and take your fingers out of your ears, would you kindly explain how a politician advocating a free trade deal can possibly be lying? Then explain how a politician can describe the dWA as Leave and not be telling a lie? I mean rationally, with cited quotations. You haven’t managed it so far, and I don’t think you can.
June 24, 2019
Your name ought to be New maniac. Much more appropriate.
June 24, 2019
We’ve already wasted a great deal of time – We have to go now.
Time to do what Rhodesia did – UDI
I’m all for putting the shutters up against the EU – they are the enemy and will reduce us to their level if we do not get out – God knows we are almost as bad as them
June 24, 2019
This is all starting to mirror the final episode of Blackadder Goes Forth. Good-bye-ee! good-bye-ee! Wipe the tear, baby dear, from your eye-ee.
“Whatever it was, I’m sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would’ve noticed another madman around here? Good luck, everyone.” âCaptain Blackadder, on Baldrick’s final plan.
June 24, 2019
To continue: ”…there’s a silver lining in the skyeee”.
And you’re absolutely right – there are far too many Mad Remainers. Once they can be got rid of (or converted, though they won’t like to admit it) the sky will clear.
Always look on the bright side of life, eh, Acorn?
June 24, 2019
Some of us LJ, including the Westminster Elite, know where the bright side is; and it is not in Pounds Sterling assets. For those of you who are significantly dependent on the DWP for pensions and benefits, just remember you voted for austerity plus.
June 24, 2019
Odd as State pensions are index linked
June 25, 2019
acorn….do I detect a scorn for age, poverty, disabled, job seekers etc? And why do you assume they voted contrary to you? But then I am surprised you waste your high interlect on this platform, you should be concerned with ‘higher’ things.
June 24, 2019
Rowan Atkinsonâs father âin real lifeâ was taken at Dunkirk – he was in charge of feeding troops onto the beach and was therefore always at the back. Was a POW and in Hitlerâs Revenge camps for most of the War. He had been a scholar at Queenâs College Oxford (although he did not get the money because his father was too rich). He always thought his great sacrifice was worth it. Next time you see Blackadder go over the top, maybe you will understand that Rowan was not really acting….
June 24, 2019
Acorn, And all because you Remains don’t want the UK to be as independent as New Zealand. You already tried with your trashy project fear 3 years ago and failed. Why do you keep recycling the same old garbage? Most of the world is not in the EU – grow up and accept it.
June 24, 2019
Happy Groundhog Day, everyone.
June 24, 2019
Oh dear. The sore losers coming out of the woodwork. Andy, Hefner, Acorn and MH had better get on with it. It’s about time parliament implemented the result of the vote they gave us!! I am fed up with the EU going on about being friends with the UK. If that’s the case then they are going a funny way about it. By not trying to get along they will just hurt the rest of the countries in the EU. I smell trouble ahead in Europe and the riots in France and the unrest everywhere else won’t get any better.
June 24, 2019
Dear FedUp, what a snowflake you are if you cannot take such a little joke. But yes, that’s what happens with people who take themselves too seriously.
June 25, 2019
Pot calling kettle black springs to mind. You remainders are no joke. You are what is holding the country back. A right royal pain.
June 25, 2019
Didn’t Bill Murray become a better version of himself through adversity in a closed environment in that most excellent film Hef?
Rebitth
June 24, 2019
Jeremy Hunt asks of Boris Johnson:
“… how he can ‘guarantee’ we will leave the EU on October 31 if parliament votes to stop a no-deal Brexit, as it did in March.”
If Boris Johnson could be bothered he could equally well ask of Jeremy Hunt:
“”… how he can ‘guarantee’ we will ever leave the EU if parliament keeps voting to stop a no-deal Brexit, as it did in March.”
So what would Jeremy Hunt do when the EU had refused to make any significant changes to the Withdrawal Agreement accepted by Theresa May, as it almost certainly will despite what either of the Tory leadership candidates may say to the contrary, and MPs had once again voted against that deal, and also voted against a no-deal Brexit?
To repeat the recent words of the Telegraph’s Dia Chakravarty:
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/06/18/brexit-populism-and-the-future-of-the-eu-new-talk-at-politeia-2-july/#comment-1030429
âIf we donât agree to EUâs terms or they donât agree to ours, only way to avoid No Deal is revoking Art 50. If thatâs what theyâre advocating, just be honest FGS.â
I was glad to see Labour’s Caroline Flint telling Andrew Marr:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/23061903.pdf
“I wonât be voting to revoke Article 50.”
But could Jeremy Hunt say the same thing as honestly and unequivocally?
June 24, 2019
Sir John, Would you kindly bring to the attention of that dozen of Conservative MPs who are prepared to bring down the government in the event of ‘No Deal’ the extent of the No Deal preparations made by the EU for that contingency. ‘No Deal’ is a misnomer. Some urgent Tea Room action is needed, methinks.
June 24, 2019
Extraordinary that a few unrepresentative MPs are prepared to commit political suicide and usher in a Marxist government to keep us in their pet project.
With no majority in the HOC and the Leave vote split with the Brexit party, how do you propose to actually achieve the desired exit?
June 24, 2019
I don’t fear a GE, not if the truth that our democracy is under threat from those ‘undemocratic but democratically elected politicians’ is allowed to be published.
It would give us a great opportunity to rid ourselves of the undemocratic MP’s.
June 24, 2019
If the Remainers in the Conservative Party are intent on bringing down the government to avoid a “No deal”, then the it needs to make an accommodation with the Brexit Party to avoid splitting the right of centre vote. A Corbyn government would be truly catastrophic. Meanwhile, I would hope that these saboteurs are deselected by their constituency parties.
June 25, 2019
deselection doesn’t work – Central Office hasn’t got the balls, or worse, desire to unseat.
June 24, 2019
Good morning- again
I remember the day after well. It was a bright day just like today and I set off to work early to London. Things were still and calm and, upon entering the office I met the security guard who told me Leave had won. As I knew he too voted Leave we danced, arm in arm, around an empty office.
Little did I know that three years later I would still be waiting to Leave.
June 24, 2019
No, the withdrawal agreement is reality Brexit.
It is the reality of what you have been demanding for years.
Rubbish, isnât it?
We told you it would be but you didnât believe us.
Turns out we were right.
June 24, 2019
Sir John, we’re all of us on this site in favour of free speech, but PLEASE save us from this man endlessly trotting out exactly the same nonsense. A bit of judicious moderation is required, please!
June 24, 2019
Poor Andy. Must be hell being a Remainer and seeing your bluff called.
According to the website âVisual Capitalistâ the UK is the fourth richest country in the world â ahead of Germany (5th) and France (7th). We have total wealth of $9.9 trillion with China (24.8 Tr) the second richest and the USA (by far the richest with $62.6 trillion). Japan is ahead of us too – no âForeign Aidâ etc in their burden of course.
June 24, 2019
Andy
You told us there would be no EU army …. wrong
You told us we would lose jobs… Wrong wages are soaring 840k vacancies
You told us planes wouldn’t fly …. Wrong Regulation (EU) 2019/502
You told us that we would not get medicines …. Wrong & we will get them cheaper
You told us we count name regulations to scrap … Wrong we named dozens
So far Andy you’ve been WRONG in every prediction you’ve made
June 24, 2019
Andy, No, Theresa May’s draft Withdrawal Agreement is Remain, merely using a different treaty to Lisbon. You can check it yourself: we remain in a customs union with the EU; we must abide by single market rules; we cannot control our trade policy; we continue to pay the EU; the EU controls our fish; EU laws remain supreme; the CJEU adjudicates; we become subject to EU military control; etc. Either put up or shut up.
June 24, 2019
Conservative MPs have wrecked Brexit. May’s behaviour continues to be inexplicable even after her leadership stand down. Hunt as PM would be May2, same Cabinet probably and can Boris be relied on to deliver?
Election becoming more odds on this year, all 25 genuine Leave Conservative MPs need to switch to Brexit. NF is our only hope with the likes of Clarke and Grieve in Parliament.
June 24, 2019
I have a particularly low opinion of Liam Fox. Among worthless Cabinet ministers he is undoubtedly one.
But his comments on GATT 24 are interesting. He basically calls out Iain Duncan Smith, Campbell Bannerman and others of spreading lies.
Who is right Mr Redwood? The International Trade Secretary – or the failed former work and pensions secretary and the UKIP stooge Bannerman?
Reply Iain Duncan smith is correct
June 24, 2019
I must admit, I have been disappointed by Liam Fox. He is no longer a true Brexiteer who wants a complete break from the EU. I wonder what, or who, changed his mind.
June 24, 2019
I agree. Mr Fox understands both reality and international law. Clearly he is no true Brexiter. True Brexiters believe in unilateral use of GATT 24 (also fairies and unicorns)
June 24, 2019
Andy,
‘Anonymous’ previously pointed this out
https://lawyersforbritain.org/a-simple-explainer-about-article-xxiv-of-the-gatt
and importantly the link therein to Dr Lorand Bartel’s (Reader in International Law – Cambridge) tweet and responses to it.
June 24, 2019
https://briefingsforbrexit.com/a-clean-managed-brexit/
Steve Baker has set out in detail how the trade agreement under GATT and negotiate changes to the WA beyond what the Hunt con artists are saying. If the MPs working for the EU succeed in ousting Boris and push through the WA, hoping to delay a general election and using Labour votes, then there are enough true Leavers to switch and cooperate with the Brexit Party, lose the majority and force an election. The Brexit Party would stand against Remainer shysters in the Conservative and Labour parties and there would then be a parliament fit for democracy.
June 24, 2019
Iain Duncan Smith is correct?
Not according the the EUâs trade commissioner. And the EUâs deputy chief Brexit negotiator. And the former head of the WTO. And all of the trade experts who gave evidence to Parliament. And the Governor of the Bank of England. And the House of Commons library. And the International Trade Secretary.
I know who I believe. And it is not the failed former work and pensions secretary.
June 24, 2019
Andy, I have a particularly low opinion of Remain Andy. Among worthless Remain whingers he is undoubtedly one of the least effective.
June 25, 2019
NickC
You are tuning increasingly less and less trustworthy
June 24, 2019
This day three years ago, we shared a bottle of champagne with friends and when we finally leave the EU I look forward to doing the same.
Mrs May should never be forgiven for stealing and wasting three years from the life of this country.
June 24, 2019
Under Mr Redwoodâs favoured no deal scenario tariffs will be imposed on wine
– and presumably Champagne.
What you buy in shops will cost you more money. Perhaps you can drink to pointlessly paying extra for something?
June 25, 2019
Andy, I believe JR favours a trade deal – provided it does not result in us being ruled by the EU. And import tariffs are set by the UK, so they could be zero – how is that paying extra?
As for wine we drink more Australian and New Zealand than all EU wine put together; and we drink more new world and SA wine than that. So EU wine is less than a third of the total (31%, 2016 figures).
Do you ever get anything right?
June 25, 2019
You know Andy every cloud… and all that. This from the Guardian “doctors have urged the government to bring in minimum unit pricing for alcohol as research reveals the extent of liver disease” Wed 26 Jul 2017 19.42 BST Last modified on Mon 27 Nov 2017 19.28 GMT le (Doctors warn of soaring UK alcohol deaths, 24 July)Cheap booze kills thousands, if it is easy to access and abundant. Advanced liver disease is painful and emotionally harrowing: definitely not a âgood deathâ.
also “Violence (especially towards children and their mothers) and accidents (especially at work or in traffic) are more likely if levels of alcohol in the blood are high. Alcohol plays a major role in British suicides (and murders) which are on the increase”. Woody Caan Faculty of Public Health
“None of these are inevitable. Within living memory the popular drinks were weaker than todayâs, one unit of alcohol was more costly as a proportion of household income, and there were no retail outlets open 24/7. Gradually, transnational corporations producing insidiously stronger drinks, combined with clever marketing through multiple channels (including social media) fooled politicians into backing cheap booze for all.”
June 25, 2019
BOF….can I persuade you to toast freedom with a nice English wine instead?
June 24, 2019
Just watched Liam Fox on Marr on catch up. He of course confirmed that the mythical chimera of GATT XXIV is of no application in a No Deal. He also said the DG of the WTO had unsurprisingly said the same thing. So Sir John will you now publish urgently a proper clarification ? Or do you prefer to go on misleading people ?
Reply GAtt 24 can be used if both sides wish to
June 24, 2019
Simon, You are misleading people. The UK can be as independent as New Zealand. Ask yourself why you are so emotionally besotted by the EU ideology? Go on. Try it. I bet you cannot think of any rational reason.
June 24, 2019
I do love this little pool of sanity in the Main Stream Maelstrom!
Thanks, Sir John!
June 24, 2019
Yet, with Nicky Morgan’s help, the Brexiteers are apparently still looking at the backstop solution as a way to get the WA through? This seems to be the implication from a D Express article this morning. The Tories are more interested in uniting their Party and pursuing an agreement/compromise the Remainers and Leavers will accept rather than honouring Brexit.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1144447/brexit-latest-news-eu-uk-brexit-deal-ireland-border-backstop
BREXIT LIVE: Huge breakthrough on backstop – Brexiteers AND Remainers back fresh plans
“…Remainers Nicky Morgan and Greg Hands led research in to the report and say in their foreword: âDespite the volatility in British politics, we believe there is now a clear route open to a negotiated Brexit, which is firmly in the interests of all sides.â
June 24, 2019
When did we leave the EU?
Without the proviso in paragraph 3 of Article 50 TEU it would have been 11 pm 29th March.
Article 50, drafted by a UK bureaucrat is in clear English and importantly concise.
The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
The only period stated in paragraph 3 is the two year period ending on 29th March.
Any extension granted, takes the UK beyond the set time limit of two years for concluding an agreement. It follows that a further extension cannot be made within and be contiguous with the two year period. Paragraph 3 does not mention a second or more extensions.
In offering alternative extension lengths the Council appear to be very divided and confused on the reasons for granting them.
With the passage of time the extended leaving date became 12th April. The WA was not agreed, being voted down a third time, so exit day became 11 pm 12th April.
This means the legality of an extension to 31st October is questionable.
All this information is contained in Article 50 TEU Part I and Part II (23.5.19) by Stanley Brodie QC
June 24, 2019
Bring it on John..only one way to go now is leave without the WA..let’s wing it and see..the blind leading the blind
June 24, 2019
T.Elwood is claiming a dozen Tories could ‘vote no confidence’ against a ‘no deal’ solution to this 3 year mess. What is the alternative to them? Another delay (to avoid leaving?) which the EU said would not be allowed. The damn idiots must be sacked.
June 24, 2019
Ken Clarke is prepared to ‘bring down a Tory Gov’t. – the man wants certifying. Surely he must recognise that will result in BREXIT party or Labour winning, or a disaster coalition where Cons play no part? The party seems to have been riddled by fools and 5th columnists.
June 24, 2019
Always the insult, eh? However, always short on any stats to substantiate your assertions. On the positive side, you have a long, long way to go to reach the standards of ‘Andy’/ Newmania in their fact-free zone.
June 24, 2019
Today I read here:
https://www.cityam.com/brexit-irish-backstop-alternative-could-work-within-three-years/
“Brexit: Irish backstop alternative could work âwithin three yearsâ”
However on Friday I read here:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/varadkar-casts-doubt-on-alternative-arrangements-plan-for-irish-border-38241857.html
“Varadkar casts doubt on âalternative arrangementsâ plan for Irish border”
Notably:
“âWe will have to make sure that Ireland doesnât become the back door to the European single market.â
He added that the only way he could see of being sure of avoiding a hard border was through regulatory alignment.”
Well, it is a great pity that he, and Theresa May, did not accept the simple idea that to avoid the need for any Irish checks at the land border the “regulatory alignment” need only apply to those goods which are actually being carried across that border, not to all goods in circulation within the whole of the UK as they agreed.
I repeatedly pointed this out to Theresa May in my letters published in the Maidenhead Advertiser. some of which were copied direct to her as my MP and acknowledged by her assistant, and if Leo Varadkar had looked at the letters section in the eurofanatical Irish Times on September 21 2018 he would have seen this:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/brexit-time-to-mind-our-own-business-1.3636142
“Brexit â time to mind our own business?”
Which concluded:
“The legitimate interests of the EU and its Irish satrapy do not extend beyond the nature of the goods circulating in its own EU Single Market, and it is gross impudence on the part of the EU to presume that it should be able to continue to control goods permitted in the United Kingdom once we have freed ourselves from the EU, any more than the EU can expect to control goods permitted in the United States or other âthird countriesâ.
June 24, 2019
Isn’t the Good Friday Agreement a Treaty signed by Eire,Ulster, UK and the USA? And under the Vienna Convention, signed by EU members, that International Treaty over rules any EU Law? In which case, Brussels cannot legally create a Hard Border between the North and the South of Ireland.
June 24, 2019
Denis Cooper, I suspect that you are not getting through to the Remains on here (if any are not paid trolls) because Remains are motivated by emotion, whereas Leaves value facts and rationality. As children or students, Remains have been told that the EU is a “good thing”, and were too young to question it. So when the subject crops up again a decade or two later they confirm their emotional commitment unthinkingly.
That is why Remain comments on here tend to be mere didactic opinion, without argument. It is also why fake information is circulated so readily within Remain circles. A classic example is when Remains used to claim that the WTO only covered goods, not services. Fear of losing their EU nanny is a strong emotion; it affects Remains profoundly; they cannot understand why it does not affect us.
June 24, 2019
When you witness the extent to which the Parliamentary Conservative Party has been infiltrated by pro-EU globalists to subvert the inclinations of the party members, you can begin to appreciate how effective this movement has been and the problem we also now have with so many of our schools, our media, our universities and our institutions.
June 25, 2019
matthu…..a fine, concise and sadly accurate assessment of recent damage done. However, there has been a stealthy invasion of much of English cherished values over decades.
June 24, 2019
The dirty tricks departments have been working overtime on both sides of the Channel to stop Brexit to defy and deny the once in a lifetime opportunity to return our country to us!
After 50 years as second class treatment we want out.
Plus we are not alone in Europe wanting out.
Remainers ignore the millions unemployed in the southern regions of Europe.
The EU has had perennial crises since it’s existence and this will never go away because it is based on flawed logic.
It’s implementation was flawed and the solution of more of the same is going nowhere.
Time for fresh adaptation just like the business shake up experiences from “We supply – take it or leave it” so last century to “Demand driven -Customer is King” reality.
The EU cannot be reformed and will go the way of all other empires as it only listens to itself.
June 24, 2019
Let us look at what is happening in the real world. The Isle of Man is not, and never has been, a member of the EU. It has no fancy deals with the EU yet it trades with EU members mainly the UK and the Republic of Ireland. It also has many residents of EU countries, mainly Polish and German , working in the tourism industry. They have not suffered a medical supply crisis or starvation and have a thriving financial indusry.
June 24, 2019
Cromwell
Neither has, say Liechtenstein. Your point is?
June 25, 2019
Isn’t it obvious Margaret?
June 25, 2019
Margaret Howard, I think the rest have us understood Cromwell’s point quite readily. I suggest you re-read it.
June 25, 2019
Cognitive dissonance x 100
zorro
June 24, 2019
Yanis Varoufakis the former Greek Finance Minister was reported to have said that in his negotiations with the E.U. they attempted to ” bamboozle ” him. He at least did not fall for it but I can think of someone who did.
June 24, 2019
Off top: it is reported in the Daily Express that Prosperity UK has brought out a report led by Morgs & Hands which says that a solution to the backstop can be found by “harnessing existing technologies and Customs best practice(and) that futuristic high-tech solutions are not needed”. That’s as maybe but isn’t it the point here that no matter WHAT you put forward to the EU THEY WILL NOT BUDGE FROM THE BACKSTOP and more especially Little Eire will NOT ALLOW IT! It is NOT in their interest to change anything! Why do we not understand that! Cartwheeling around just prolongs the indecision that Parliament is enjoying at this moment and makes them look incredibly pathetic to us but (perhaps more damaging ) incredibly FEEBLE to the rest of the World.
June 24, 2019
We are offering to Ireland, a technological ‘parachute’ but they seem to be happy to kowtow to the EU and risk a free-fall without one. More fool them.
June 24, 2019
Philip Hammond should not be allowed to pick the next Governor of the BoE.
Hammond is in the last few weeks of his job: it would be a deliberate abuse if he tried to extend his malign influence beyond his imminent exit from government.
June 24, 2019
The solution is simple. The new Chancellor should simply sack the new Governor. No messing about. No compromise. Sack him-her. It’s time to stop playing the Europhile game.
We’ve seen this tactic in Poland and Hungary where pro-EU placemen are appointed to important positions of government to carry out their function of undermining any Eurosceptic government minister that represents a threat to the pro-EU agenda
Hammond is an offence to all that we believe in
June 24, 2019
The Bank is not the Fed so surely a Hammond-appointed governor could just be retired at once?
If that occured, we could then expect a huge, impotent, misconceived fuss from the infotainment industry and other feeble-minded persons but that would just make it a day upon which to release bad news.
June 24, 2019
What I cannot understand, is why the Prime Minister of this Country and the many who preceded her, would want to relinquish their elected power to control Britain and hand it to an unelected and unaccountable cabal of Foreigners in Brussels, who have absolutely no allegiance to our Country nor to OUR Queen. It is nothing short of surrender to a foreign power merely because of their pitiful threats against us. No wonder the world now laughs at us, British weaklings.
June 24, 2019
Exactly
June 24, 2019
It is all part of the globalist political cabal, aka the deep state, who have an agenda for future global development. It is sometimes referred to as the New World Order or One World Government. Under this plan, individual countries lose their sovereignty and merge into supranational trading blocs e.g. the EU. There is a body at the core which determines future political direction, e.g. UN, and their “directives”, which they hand down to the supranational blocs, e.g. the EU. Examples of this are the UN Compact on Migration, and the climate change directives. For further detail see the Agenda 2030 of the UN. Frightening.
June 25, 2019
@ Chris
It does seem as though we have needlessly and inescapably yoked ourselves to the UN plough, in which case none of the countries involved (including UK, but not now including United States) will, in effect, be particularly âsovereignâ. But having done that, maybe it is unclear whether we are to be better off, generally, in or out of EU; though at least we could have a semblance of democracy if we left – if we also raised the calibre of politicians chosen by the political parties.
From the UN site:
â17 Goals to Transform Our World
The Sustainable Development Goals are a call for action by all countries â poor, rich and middle-income â to promote prosperity while protecting the planet. They recognize that ending poverty must go hand-in-hand with strategies that build economic growth and address a range of social needs including education, health, social protection, and job opportunities, while tackling climate change and environmental protection.â
Later, in other pages, it includes this âbeautyâ:
âLimiting global warming to 1.5ÂșC would require rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) said in a new assessment. With clear benefits to people and natural ecosystems, limiting global warming to 1.5ÂșC compared to 2ÂșC could go hand in hand with ensuring a more sustainable and equitable society.â
Followed, later, on the same page by:
âThanks to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change we know:
…Most aspects of climate change will persist for many centuries even if emissions are stoppedâ…
Understandable that President Trump does not want to be similarly yoked to this sort of nonsense.
June 24, 2019
I cannot understand either. Maybe it’s the attraction of the Charlemagne Award? The list of past winners is quite revealing.
June 24, 2019
The Withdrawal Agreement LITERALLY AND EXPLICITLY led to us leaving last March. It did not lead to us leaving on terms that please J Redwood, but I did not vote for that in 2016, I voted to leave. And Redwood is blocking the will of the people by blocking the Withdrawal Agreement
June 24, 2019
In one shape or form, the main stream media is offering up ego maniacs to say they will bring down the Government if there is a slight chance of ‘clean break’. I presume that means they want to sign a new treaty with the EU similar to Mays that has us remain until we change our minds and vote surrender.
I do hope their Conservative Associations are listening and remember the manifestoes their canvassers went out on the doorsteps with. I do hope the Conservative workers on the ground remember that the person they promoted as an MP LIED and LIED again just to get a cushy job of rubberstamping dictates handed to them from a commission that no one voted for.
Like most here I want our Conservative Party back. At the moment if you want a left leaning quisling of a Government you vote Conservative. If you want a Communist Party you vote Labour.
It is now the up to the membership all of Parties in Parliament to demand the return to democracy. Voting people into Parliament to do bidding of another power is a shear waste of taxpayer funding
June 24, 2019
If you need an insight as to who Letwin, Grieve, Clark, Ellwood etc. want as the UK’s next leader please read ‘Dangerous Hero’ by Tom Bower.
They themselves want you to live in purgatory as with this last great gesture they will leave politics enjoy a massive pension, go on a highly lucrative lecture tour spouting how I destroyed the UK once and for all.
How did they get selected let alone elected?
June 24, 2019
Independence day
Absolute nonsense
June 25, 2019
Hans, Only to someone like yourself blinded by EU ideology.
June 24, 2019
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7174239/A-DOZEN-Tory-MPs-ready-vote-no-confidence-government-No-Deal.html
Who are these Toryâs name and shame them so there constituents can chuck them out of Westminster and replace them with true believers in democracy, they are clinging to the last life raft of hopping to try and get a reversal of the referendum result , if we do not leave on October 31st 2019 then The Brexit Party will be the main party in Parliament, a withdrawal agreement is just Westminster speak for a strategic retreat and I for one are not a coward and do not backdown to a fight so just get us out and get shut of the Eu loving Mps in your party
June 24, 2019
And to celebrate this momentous day we have the malicious May saddling the British taxpayer with a ONE TRILLION POUND bill to finance her virtue signalling concern for the issue of ‘climate change’.
What constitutional or legal authority does she have for this appalling fiscal vandalism?
What a pathetic PM she’s been. Lies, debt and abuse of trust
I hope the next PM cancels every single spending proposal she’s waved through
This PM needs to booted along with her cabinet into the annals of history
A terrible slander our nation
June 24, 2019
Exactly, when it goes to an election, you need to drain the swamp in the parliament of MPs who collude with multinational companies, big businesses in the service sector like banking, accounting, insurance, lawyers and the EU.
At the moment there are 28 hard Brexiteers in the con party, with a possible extra 90 who would switch as you have seen in the past and in the labour party, 6 hard Brexiteers with extra maybe 20 MPs, that makes a maybe 144 MPs for Brexit and 10 DUPs which is 154.
So to get Brexit over the line in parliament you would need an extra 172 NEW MPs which can only come from the Brexit party or independents standing.
You might be lucky and the next con party PM get it done by 31 Oct, but then the hard work starts on hundred of votes in parliament to make a reality over the next few years and you won’t get the laws past in parliament that you need still because you would still have a remain parliament working for the EU and international companies with the big service sector in the UK opposing the change that will be needed in parliament to have a full Brexit.
So, in conclusion, the only way to have full Brexit for the people is to drain the swamp in parliament and the Lords with a strong PM who will stand up against big business and do what needs to be done and get the changes through parliament over the next 5 years.
June 24, 2019
I keep hearing comments concerning the difficulty of getting a “no deal” through the HOC and I am puzzled by what seems to be an attempt to unnecessarily complicate something.
The House of Commons does not need to further approve our departure from the EU.
It has already done so by a significant majority via the Acts of Parliament referring to the Article 50 Notice and our withdrawal from the EU. As JRM has said, Law trumps motions.
The next PM should just run down the clock and allow the Law to take effect.
As for the Irish border, I think that the Irish Government and the EU should be allowed to sort it out between themselves.
Halloween could turn out to be one of the scariest ever (but not for the UK).
June 24, 2019
Thank God Boris is refusing to take part in these TV âhead to headâ debates. I did not have a vote for the leader of the Labour Party, will not have one for the leader of the LibDems – the leader of the Tory Party is nobodyâs business but ours – the members!
June 24, 2019
The worst thing that can happen is having a new treaty with Brussels, why, it will drag on for years, just like you are now witnessing with the Switz, years of talks, never-ending and till it does you still haven’t left the EU, it would be only leaving, in name only and have a treaty with years of talks, will cost 39 billion up front with a undisclosed amount billions after the deal as they think thing up as the treaty talks go along.
Only a clean break from the EU will do, get on with it.
June 24, 2019
I said last time don’t activate article 50 it the worst thing you can do, now say, don’t have a treaty with them the EU, so i will see what happen this time.
June 24, 2019
If there is to be a General Election,when would that be….? After or before Oct 31st?
Also how long would it take to set a GE in progress?
Presumably if there is a vote of no confidence in the Government it will take time to organise the election before end Oct?
Leave with WTO is the default position,so I presume the new government will take over with the UK having left
Somebody please clarify the timings…..
June 24, 2019
By rallying behind the preposterous figure of Boris “Piffle” Johnson the once great Conservative Party has now abandoned any pretence at being a serious and worthy force for good in any aspect of public life. It is simply a ship of fools.
June 24, 2019
Why are you bothered Simon?
You would never vote Tory anyway.
June 24, 2019
Been in France for three weeks because the carp fishing on private lakes (British owned) is so good for my husband: nothing like it in the UK.
France is very expensive except for wine but people are the same everywhere with the same needs….and prejudices!
Went for the ferry on Saturday and it got cancelled because St Mali port being blocked by”Gilet Jaune”: bottom line is that there’s a lot of discontent out there but I’m proud to be British because we’re trying to do it properly and not penalize parents with little children who have no part in the dispute and just want to get home.
It also makes you wonder what European unity means anyway when they pick an easy target like the ferry affecting people that have no part in their dispute with Macron: Brittany Ferries will be killed and French people will lose their jobs; we don’t really know what goes on in the UK.
June 24, 2019
There will be no independence day. Boris will stall and the messiah will no longer be. Hunt the remainer will just seek another extendion and we’ll be staying in the EU.
June 24, 2019
Steve
Hope you are right.
June 25, 2019
MH
Why is that ? Are you telling us that we should be a vassal state to those countries we sacrificed lives to save from tyranny ?
That we should not be independent and sovereign ?
That we should have our lives determined by a corrupt ungrateful and unelected cabal ?
You are obviously a remainer.
June 24, 2019
I would kindly ask the UK’s political class to just grow up and stop acting like a bunch of children and more like representatives of the electorate.
I am sick and tired of this media-inspired nonsense.
June 24, 2019
Three years now, at least the lies have moved on from “the EU is irrelevant” to “the EU is essential”, I suggest there is an essential aspect to this relationship, but the EU is a parasite.
I note that every newspaper has Boris on the front with all but the Telegraph in a bad light, this does remind me of Trump where every single newspaper was against him. I am very suspicious of the press when Mr Hunt’s plan for brexit is extremely unlikely to work.
Hopefully we will get more Boris as the contest goes on, predicting his strategy will be bluff to start with. If Ken and others are serious about the no-confidence vote then they’ll be out of parliament with brexit already delivered.
I don’t see any problems for conservative votes with brexit delivered, but labour will be mauled by a credible brexit party opposition.
June 25, 2019
We are frequently told that the EU has been instrumental in raising the UK’s environmental standards. Well, 40% of Germany’s energy is generated by burning coal and 80% of Poland’s energy is generated by burning coal. It’s true that the wind doesn’t blow the whole time, so we need something in addition to wind farms. But Germany has refused to build nuclear power stations. We have done rather better than these two nations.
June 25, 2019
and Germany buys up to 30% of energy needs from Russia – I don’t see that raising Russians’ environmental standards.
June 25, 2019
Lindsay
“. But Germany has refused to build nuclear power stations. We have done rather better than these two nations.”
Really?
“As of 2014, there have been more than 100 serious nuclear accidents and incidents from the use of nuclear power. Fifty-seven accidents have occurred since the Chernobyl disaster, and about 60% of all nuclear-related accidents have occurred in the USA.
Serious nuclear power plant accidents include the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster (2011), the Chernobyl disaster (1986), the Three Mile Island accident (1979), and the SL-1 accident (1961)”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents
==
Makes burning coal look quite green and environmental friendly. Personally I would prefer to live next to a coal mine rather than a nuclear power plant. And so no doubt would the citizens of Chernobyl and Fukushima.
June 26, 2019
You are confusing incidents with serious accidents.
A reportable incident is very different and minor risk.
If you compared the overall safety record of nuclear power you would see how few have died by comparison to the mining of coal or the exploration of gas and oil.
Strangely green fans hate nuclear power despite it being totally clean energy.
June 25, 2019
Don’t forget that to force a No Deal Brexit over the line, we may need to fight a General Election. That could be won by a Brexiteers’ Alliance, with Conservative Eurosceptics and the Brexit Party at its core. I think that Boris Johnson will make friendly overtures to Nigel Farage. I doubt if Jeremy Hunt would.