A useless Parliament

The absence of a majority for any governing party or parties, and the lack of unity over any positive proposal makes this a useless Parliament. The government’s decision to remove the whip from 21 Conservatives comes after the defections of Heidi Allen, Nick Boles, Anna Soubry, Philip Lee, Sarah Wollaston to Change, the Liberal democrats and Independence. The Conservative party is now down to 289 in the Commons, with 10 DUP, leaving the two parties short of the 318 needed for a majority.

A pro EU coalition did have the necessary votes to push through a fundamental constitutional bill effectively overturning the referendum result in just four hours yesterday. They could agree to stop us leaving without a deal ,but were unable to agree what a deal would look like that they could accept and which would be negotiable with the EU. The truth is the EU has negotiated the deal it wants, and the UK Parliament and people have decisively rejected that same deal.

The Bill went through with just a handful of amendments rushed to the chamber at the last minute, with no proper time for consideration or for external advice. The Bill now goes onto the Lords where the proposers wish to limit debate, limit the number of amendments and rush it through again without full consideration of its many important implications for our democracy, our economy and our society. The Remain side claims anything the government does is undemocratic, yet pushes and shoves our constitution in ways designed to curtail debate and thwart the wishes of the majority in the referendum.

The Commons then refused to vote for a new Parliament. A Remain Parliament wishes to disagree with the referendum majority and deny voters the opportunity to do anything about it.

I will post my remarks in the Commons debate yesterday.

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500 Comments

  1. Harry More
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:11 am | Permalink

    Yesterday was an excellent day for Parliamentary democracy. Parliament stopped the government proceeding with the no-deal Brexit which all the leaders of the Leave campaign in 2016 explictly ruled out as a possibility. The whole point of leaving the EU is to revitalise our Parliament and yesterday it showed itself properly revitalised. Bravo!

    • J Bush
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

      It would appear you agree with this rogue parliaments idea of ‘democracy’.

      I don’t.

      I agree with BJ when he said “politicians don’t get to choose which public votes they respect”

      • rose
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

        The French are warning us about what happens to a nation if a democratic vote is ignored. They are telling us, uphold your referendum or you will suffer our fate.

        When their electorate voted against the EU Constitution, as any self respecting nation would, the politicians ignored the vote, repackaged the Constitution as the Lisbon Treaty, and passed it through their parliament anyway. “Respectez notre NON” said the placards in the streets, but it wasn’t respected, and now there are a whole lot more people on the streets. Les Gilets Jaunes, La France Insoumise, and Marine Le Pen are representing the people now.

      • Oliver
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:37 am | Permalink

        What they did is vote to waste another £3B on their pointless drivelling. That’s almost the total cost of the uplift to school funding that is being sneered at as “election” driven.

        My calculation is that my share of this delay cost comes to somewhere near £200 a month.

        And I’m getting sick of it.

        Hammering home the cost of the EU, back to the Boris bus if you like, won it before, and will win it again.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

          @Oliver; “My calculation is that my share of this delay cost comes to somewhere near £200 a month.”

          Nice to know that you put such a low price on Democracy…

          A point some now bleating Brexiteer’s have missed, it wasn’t the opposition who (might) have cost the UK “another £3B” but our bumbling lame duck Executive, after all why would the EC/EU27 offer an extension until the end of Jan 2020, even if asked -having said that the current extension would be the last, and that they are prepared and now expect a no-deal exit- unless they see the possibility of a europhile, or at least less europhobic, govt here in the UK – Boris calling for a GE, in a fit of peek, just gave the EC/EU27 a very good reason to grant such an extension.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

            Why do you have be so aggressive Jerry?
            A simple friendly reply will still get your point across

          • NickC
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

            Jerry, Don’t you know that our Remain MPs and politicians have been colluding with the EU? The EU wants to keep the UK under EU control – and lie about it by calling it Brexit.

          • Fred H
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

            my god jerry – wake up man….why would they offer another extension? It might have something to do with us keep paying them?

          • jerry
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

            @Edward2; Well perhaps the same could be asked of others, be civil towards those you oppose and they will be civil towards you, perhaps if some stopped banding about words such as “Traitor” & “Quisling” etc…

            @NickC; That is a bit like claiming, as some on the hard left do, that eurosceptics are in collusion with the the hard right in the USA. What is more there is actually some evidence, because certain UK politicos have been seen and heard in the presence of certain US politicos, beyond what would otherwise be normal workplace associations. Guilt by association, if good for the Goose is also good for the Gander!

            @Fred H; Would that not be a bit like accepting the other of rent from squatters, to look after your house whilst you go on holiday, not implausible but one would have to be pretty desperate to do so.

          • Lifelogic
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

            @Nick C

            Exactly collaborating with the enemy is surely what is now a majority of MPs and an even bigger majority of the Lords are surely doing.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

            Jerry
            I have never used those words.
            So don’t blame me.

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

        If Boris asks for a FTPA two thirds majority next week, whether we have an election depends on Corbyn. He has no need for one – it’s going his way already. If the Tory government has a no-confidence motion in itself (simple majority), Corbyn will form a new coalition government in the 14 day period allowed.

        The Remain plan – in collusion with the EU, and its “legal advice” – is to extend the deadline, regurgitate the May dWA and then have a second referendum early next year. The question will be: Corbyn’s WA, or Remain. Thank you, Tory party.

    • Hope
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

      The deal talked about was a trade deal not a servitude plan to remain in the EU! Two different things.

      Parliament did not do its job because normally the opposition does not control business. Against constitution norms Bercow allowed it. Parliament has not down its job it has defied the will of the people.

      People need to rise to take over parliament and oust the infested corrupt regime that exists. It no longer has a purpose.

      • Richard
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

        Andrew Lilico sounded hopeful:- “In essence, what has happened today is that Parliament introduced a “Bill to impinge on a Royal Prerogative” bill, and the Speaker ruled that it didn’t impinge on a Royal prerogative… The Speaker gets to decide whether the Commons is going to seek Queen’s Consent as the Bill passes – whether it “needs” it in order to be accepted in the House to be read & voted upon. But that does not define whether the Bill *actually* needs Consent or has it if it does… It is in precisely this sort of case that Royal Assent should be withheld.”

        • Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

          Quite so. The Speaker cannot be allowed to set aside the Royal Prerogative. It would be entirely proper to advise HMQ to withhold Royal Assent.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

        Bercow and the traitors in Parliament have indeed tried to defy the will of the people. I certainly hope they will be stopped and expunged from Parliament.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

          Farage’s ukip in 2014 had no interest at all in “the will of the people”. “Parliament Is Supreme” proclaimed their manifesto, and on that basis they would, with a Commons majority, simply repeal the European Communities Act. There would be no referendum, to blazes with the popular opinion.

          What utter, hypocritical low-life these people are. Fortunately for them, their voters have the memories of goldfish.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

            If they actually had a Commons majority, which they didn’t, they would be the Government and could pass laws that they wanted to pass..
            That’s how democracy works.
            Why us it such a surprise to you Martin?

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:08 am | Permalink

            Right. So why don’t you accept it with the present Parliament, Edward?

            Do you even begin to grasp “double standards”?

          • Edward2
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

            You posed a fantasy scenario of what the Brexit Party or UKIP might do or might have done if they had a majority in Parliament.
            Which they don’t and are unlike ever to do so.
            And then you said you didn’t like what they would do.

            I said parties that have a majority are able to pass laws.
            The mess in Parliament currently is due to no party having a proper majority.
            There is no double standard to grasp.

          • NickC
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:01 am | Permalink

            Martin, But there was a Referendum in 2016. The UK was sold out to EEC (EU) serfdom via numerous Parliamentary decisions from the ECA to Lisbon. So it was perfectly legitimate to free us from your EU empire via Parliament too. As it has turned out the people decided to Leave which trumps mere representatives. You are the one with double standards.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:46 am | Permalink

            Martin in Cardiff

            ” So why don’t you accept it with the present Parliament, Edward?

            Do you even begin to grasp “double standards”?”

            That would be the parliament that Passed the law to leave with no deal with a huge majority AND then passed a law to not leave . The same parliament that voted against a deal 3 times but passed a law saying we cant leave with no deal

            Double standards indeed

          • Lifelogic
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

            Stop libelling goldfish over their memory – it is not true!

      • Richard
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

        Telegraph Brussels reporter: “Brussels wants Britain to hold a general election after the EU agrees to delay Brexit at the October 17 EU summit to reduce the risk of a no deal exit”
        (Next it could be ‘Britain should hold a 2nd referendum before an election!)

        Boris surely has good grounds to advise that “It is in precisely this sort of case that Royal Assent should be withheld.”

      • Richard
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

        LSE lecturer, Robert Craig: “House of Commons procedural rules mean that the government is required formally to approve the Bill by affirming ‘Queen’s Consent’ to the Bill at the Third Reading stage. This is because the power to agree or accept an extension is normally exercised using a prerogative power. If passed, this statute would have the legal effect, by whatever means, of forcing the PM to agree an extension to the Article 50 process would manifestly ‘affect’ the prerogative for the purposes of the relevant test as to whether Queen’s Consent is required.” https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-consent/

    • eeyore
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

      For the first time since 1641 Parliament has escaped government control. Under cover of the FTPA the legislature has usurped the functions of the executive.

      We are now in a real constitutional crisis. Among other possibilities, there appears to be nothing to stop this Parliament voting itself the legal right to sit in perpetuity.

    • Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

      @Harry More – You misunderstand what democracy is…and no it was not a good day for democracy…………… The whole point of leaving the EU was to leave the EU

      Yesterday simply showed the hypocrisy of those that think they know best.

    • BJC
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

      Parliament has now proudly annointed itself with Executive powers over all things Brexit. In order to conclude this unnecessarily extended process, we look forward to hearing Remainers’ (well, Starmer’s – it’s his questionable strategy) proposals so that our negotiators are aware what they’re seeking from the EU. We wouldn’t want them to waste more of their valuable time bringing back another proposal that’s not acceptable to our proxy government, would we?

      • graham1946
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

        Labour’s big idea is to re-negotiate, then go for a new referendum recommending voters vote against their deal and remain. Seriously, that is their deranged plan.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

      Yes, John seems to blame opposition parties’ MPs simply doing their jobs, for the inevitable results of the Tories’ failure to win a majority, and for Johnson’s glaring inability to maintain unity amongst such MPs as they have.

      We’ve had the judiciary vilified for doing their jobs in administering the law, the BBC for reporting facts, and the Civil Service for trying to ensure the functioning of the country, so it’s hardly surprising that Parliament would escape the same cynical slurs from exactly the same people.

      Is it, John?

      • NickC
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

        Martin, It was the opposition’s job to make sure the government got a good deal, not to impose a bad deal.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:51 am | Permalink

        Marty

        That would be the opposition party who’s policy is

        1) Win an election

        2) Renegotiate a deal with EU

        3) Then campaign against themselves to support remaining

        OR

        Would it be the other opposition party who’s leader says

        1) They want to win an election

        2) Then hold a referendum on remaining

        3) If we vote leave again they say they will ignore the result

        So thats two parties who need to win an election in order to carry out their bonkers policies YET

        Both of them voted against holding an election

        AND YOU SUPPORT THIS……… ha ha ha my comedy book of remainer posts is coming along a treat

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

      On the contrary, this Parliament showed itself to be prepared to subvert the negotiating position of the government and subjugate this country to the will of the EU. Clearly most MPs don’t want to govern an independent, self-governing country trading with the world but to be law and rule takers from the EU.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:02 am | Permalink

      Harry More

      Keep Drinking the Kool Aid

      You are now part of the coup against democracy

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:11 am | Permalink

      In the perverse Remainer any Prime Minister who wants to call free and fair election is clearly a dictator.

    • Matt Ryan
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      Harry More

      There is no deal on offer. The Withdrawal Agreement sets out (in the Political Declaration) what a deal might look like but the EU are clear they won’t negotiate a trade deal until after we leave.

      So what deal are you expecting?

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:28 am | Permalink

      The elephant in the room is that all your supposed democratic heroes voted to remain. This suggests more intransigence than democracy.

    • Timaction
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      You live in a parallel world where you think that your views are better than the will of the people. Time has come for the majority to show we will not put up with the anti democratic, pro federalists.

    • Mark Kennedy
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:37 am | Permalink

      Parliamentary democracy has been undermined because it has not respected the peoples vote to Leave. To say otherwise is a LIE. The truth is with a General Election we will win despite the efforts of the Remainers to thwart it by delays to suit them. Even if the Remainers succeed in some part – Leave can not be stopped. Why? Simple the Remainers showed they could not respect the result – so Leavers understand this and will fight a year from now, 10 years from now. Remainers have created this and there will be no stability or other agenda apart from Brexit until Brexit is delivered in Full. Leave meant Leave not in part or in name only.

    • Woody
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      “No deal” is a creation of the pro remain establishment elite. No negotiation was ever successful if one party could not say no to the unacceptable offers of the other party.

    • Nicholas Odoni
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:50 am | Permalink

      I wholly disagree with your assertion that all leaders of the Leave campaign in 2016 explicitly ruled out a no-deal Brexit as a possibility. Whilst the expression ‘no-deal’ may not itself have been used, it was made clear enough that the backstop (no pun intended) would be to leave on WTO terms.

      More to the point, however, many of the leading figures on the Remain side of the argument made it abundantly clear that voting to leave would mean leaving the customs union, the single market and so on. I can post you links to these statements if you wish. Moreover, they used these statements, please note, in order to scare the public into voting Remain, to put fear into the minds of the voters that this is what would happen if we voted to leave! So they, on the Remain side, had no doubts at all that leaving the SM, CU and all the institutions of the EU was exactly what was entailed by voting to leave, even if they also did not use the term ‘no-deal’ to describe this.

      The electorate listened to what they said, thought about the risks, and still voted to leave by a majority of nearly 1.5 million. That, I think, is more than enough for most of us, and leaving on no-deal, or rather WTO terms, is therefore fully justified.

    • Christine
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

      During the referendum debate people talked about a trade deal. The Withdrawal Agreement IS NOT A TRADE DEAL. It is a binding international treaty that leaves us subservient to the EU. This is not what leave voters voted for. The EU cleverly split the negotiations into two parts. Theresa May and her negotiating team fell into this trap. Maybe deliberately maybe not.

      If you think that what happened yesterday shows a revitalisation of our Parliament then you are sadly mistaken. What it shows is the end of democracy in this country. Parliament against the people is a sham democracy and an affront to this country. We used to be a beacon for democracy, now we are a laughing stock.

      All the MPs voting against the Government yesterday ought to be ashamed of themselves.

    • Heathcote John
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      Muppet.

    • ukretired123
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      Nuts indeed all round. You need to get out more, out of the London bubble.
      The lunatics have taken over the Asylum, crowned by Bullocks Bercow!

    • Al
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

      They also rejected calls for a General Election. Demanding a second referendum while refusing a General Election hardly appears to be consistantly supporting democracy.

      • BJC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:55 am | Permalink

        Al

        The reason Labour are now calling for Ref2 instead of the GE they’ve been clamouring for over the last 3 years is that whatever the result, they keep their substantial bottoms on the green benches in the HOC, something that’s not remotely likely in a GE.

        I cannot imagine why they think that the same incompetent MPs who are incapable of delivering the result of the current referendum, will be able to deliver the result of a different one.

      • Michael McGrath
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

        Al

        I think you may be missing the point.

        In a “People’s Vote”, which is a referendum, the result can be ignored as promised by Jo Swinson and the nonsense can continue under the umbrella of a healthy MP’s salary.

        In a general election, the same vote can see you out on the streets.

        Simple

        • Chris
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

          Yes, Swinson made it quite clear in interview that if the people voted to Leave again she would not accept it. This whole debacle has laid bare the absence of integrity and principle in so many MPs. They are a sham. They obviously do not represent the people, nor are they in the slightest bit interested in democracy. Well, at least we have a clear picture of whom to vote for in an election.

    • WILLIAM HAWKINS
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      More, how you can equate the actions in Parliament yesterday, as an excellent day for democracy, defies belief. What this has done, is denied the people, in the referendum the right to have their democratic vote achieved. It has now been over three years since the people voted to leave the EU, from that date the establishment, have placed numerous obstacles in the way, to block that vote. The latest one, to force a no deal off the table, is a farce.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      So let us have an election to show our gratitude.

    • David Peppiatt
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

      It would seem that the Remain lie machine is pouring Remain liars onto to the threads of Leave sites, including this one. The only saving grace is that they are absurd in everything they say.

    • David Maples
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:32 am | Permalink

      Harry More(any relation to …………… Sir Thomas More 1478-1535?)

      Parliament has no executive functions, and has no right to govern. Any legislation it passes must be approved by the executive which is usually formed from the majority party in the Commons. The current bill abrogating no-deal is a usurpation of the powers conferred on HMG,(almost entirely vested in the First Lord of the Treasury aka the Prime Minister), following upon the transference of the authority of the Royal Prerogative, over many centuries.

      The overarching principle of the British Constitution is Queen in Parliament, NOT Parliament in Queen!

    • pauline baxter
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

      The question in the referendum was quite simple. Should we remain in the EU or should we leave the EU.
      We voted to leave.
      There was quite simply NO MENTION OF DEALS.
      Parliament has now acted AGAINST THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. It is THE PEOPLE who have Sovereignty. They LEND it to Parliament by electing representatives. From those representatives a Government is formed. All this happens subject to the sovereignty of the Monarch. That is how our democracy works Harry More. That is quite simple to understand. SO YOU ARE WRONG. What Parliament has done is totally undemocratic under UK law. It’s typical of the way the EU operates though. THAT IS JUST ONE GOOD REASON FOR GETTING COMPLETELY OUT OF THE EU.

    • czerwonadupa
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      Quislings don’t do democracy, they do the bidding of their masters & in the case of this House of Quislings, over seen by the egotistical, bully-boy Bercow, their masters are in Brussels.

    • Ian Bland
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

      What happened yesterday is not and has never been the normal function of our parliament.

      Additionally, there is a nice edit doing the rounds of remarks made before the Referendum by everyone from Cameron to Grieve stating that after two years if there is no deal, we leave without a deal. It is simply a lie to state otherwise.

      This was not parliamentary democracy in action, it was disgraceful politicking that has wrecked our system.

    • Bill Walsh.
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

      Ian Bland . So, Ian, we can take it that you are quite content to see democracy overturned and for our country to be ruled by a foreign power !
      What a sad state of affairs exists when a British person is eagerly willing to hand over control of the UK to a foreign power which is, in all essence, run by a country which our Forces fought two World Wars against in order that you and I and all in our country should NOT be ruled by a foreign power and guarantee that you and others like you have the freedom to betray us all.

    • Phil O'Sophical
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

      It is interesting that even now you feel the need to justify your friends’ anarchy by calling it democracy. What has anything the Leavers said before the referendum go to do with the here and now, even if it were true. Parliament itself voted overwhelmingly that, what Remainers like to call, ‘no deal’ was the default if an acceptable deal could not be reached. What you now call Parliamentary democracy is anarchy, where the government is no longer allowed to govern and enact the people’s will, and when it calls for an election to provide a new mandate, that too is thwarted. That gives away the game: NO EXIT, not no deal has been the play all along, as most of us have known.

  2. Shirley
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:12 am | Permalink

    Parliament has gone rogue. All those calling for a second peoples vote now resist having a GE and therefore refuse to allow the people a voice. What protection do we have, and what steps can we take the kick them out?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

      The Government has now adopted the old ukip position, from when it thought that it might get a Commons majority.

      That is, that it would take the UK out of the European Union on Parliamentary sovereignty alone, with NO referendum, and irrespective of public opinion.

      Now, that, absolutely, is anti-democratic, and it is why the screeching against a confirmatory vote has grown ever shriller from the extremists.

      Lazy, apathetic people have short memories, no discernment for double standards, and they are being used.

      The irony is, that the fanatics cynically and wrongly accuse the European Parliament of being a “rubber-stamping agency” for the Commission, and yet the want the UK’s to be exactly that for the Government.

      It’s laughable.

      • JoolsB
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

        “That is, that it would take the UK out of the European Union on Parliamentary sovereignty alone, with NO referendum, and irrespective of public opinion.”

        What on earth are you talking about? You were obviously on that other planet you obviously inhabit in June, 2016 when a referendum took place asking if we wished to LEAVE the UK or not. The British people chose to leave. End of. Which part of that do you not understand?

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

        Martin, Heath’s government forced the UK into the EEC (EU) using Parliament alone (and multiple lies), without a mandate (his manifesto merely said further negotiations), but specifically without a referendum.

        Now we have had an actual Referendum which instructs MPs to remove the UK from EU control, and you call that “anti-democratic”. Now that’s laughable.

      • Phil O'Sophical
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

        Actually it is your post that is laughable.

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

      @Shirley; Sorry but if you do not understand the difference between a single issue referendum and a multi issue general election you would not be on the electoral registrar is it was necessary to pass a theory exam first, in the same way as would be leaner drivers have to…

      • graham1946
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

        And you do not understand democracy to suggest such a thing. Everyone, be he high or low, educated or not has a right to vote and to representation against the over mighty executive. If you had your way, who would set the questions – the obviously self declared intelligent Remoaners presumably.
        It is bad enough that you can only get justice in this country now by being rich, the ordinary man or woman spends his/her money feeding family and paying taxes whereas those with more money than sense can play about with democracy even to the extent of using foreign money against the British people.

      • Ignoramus
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:19 am | Permalink

        Clearly you would fail an exam in logic, facts, grammar and spelling…..

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

        Jerry, Sorry, but you do not understand that Leave must be implemented by Parliament. Since you have so much trouble understanding a simple Primary school level word – Leave means no longer being controlled by the EU in any shape or form.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

        Jerry

        Another of your master classes in rudeness and misunderstanding someones post. Then trying to belittle them by posting an ungrammatical , badly spelled and nonsensical post. Congratulations you win muppet of the day award

    • Tabulazero
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      Because no one trust Boris Johnson not to move the election day after the 31st October.

      • rose
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

        This is confected.

      • graham1946
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

        The obvious thing to do is to have the GE and if Boris gets a majority, just repeal this tawdry legislation anyway whatever the date. This Parliament may be able to bind this PM’s hands but it can’t bind the next Parliament, so I’d suggest it is just more time wasting at a cost of one billion pounds per month. No-one has suggested what will be done with this time anyway, mostly because they don’t have a clue and still won’t in January.

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

        Tabulazero, You have the cheek to talk about trust when your corrupt Remain MPs have sold out to the EU (again) despite the people’s vote.

        • Tabulazero
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

          As opposed to a corrupt PM who promises to negotiate alternative arrangements but does no such things ?

          The negotiations are a sham.

          • Shirley
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

            It takes two to negotiate. Why don’t you criticise the EU for refusing to offer fair deal (as A50 dictates), instead of a punishment vassal statehood deal?

          • NickC
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

            Tabulazero, The EU refuses to negotiate a proper withdrawal, trying to hang on to control over the UK. It is the EU which has refused to negotiate a trade deal at all. Boris is not to blame for that.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

            A fair deal is a deal that does not require the EU to ditch the Single-Market simply because it would be convenient for the Conservative party.

            You cannot have been so gullible to believe that the UK would retain the benefit of membership but in name but none of its drawbacks?

          • Edward2
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

            Nonsense Tab.
            Leaving the Single market and customs union is the reality of leaving the EU
            The leaflet and the PM made that clear.
            Why cant we trade like USA China South Korea Japan and Canada do?

  3. Garland
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    Utter nonsense to say that yesterday’s brave vote overturned the result of the referendum. The people trying to overturn the referendum are the likes of Francois, Cash and Redwood who voted THREE times to block a deal that would have led directly and unavoidably to Brexit. Yet they are still there, grinning on the Tory backbenches, while 21 decent MPs who voted three times in favour of Brexit and are still in favour of Brexit (just not the cliff edge no deal Brexit) are booted out. This Conservative Party does not deserve to survive

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:49 am | Permalink

      Mays WA is not Brexit.

      • Andy
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

        Except it is. As soon as you figure that out Brexit can be done.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

          Then you better tell all the remainer MPs to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement as well Andy.

        • Shirley
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

          No it isn’t. Not in any shape or form. It ties us INTO the EU. We voted to Leave, and Parliament promised to respect the result. They didn’t say only one answer would be respected. You may respect liars and frauds, but I doubt the majority of people will.

          • Andy
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

            The Withdrawal Agreement takes us out of the EU. It takes us out of the single market. It takes us out of the customs union. It ends free movement. It ends ‘vast’ payments to the EU. It ends the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

            It is a crap deal. Any form of Brexit is crap. But you voted for Brexit and I did not. It genuinely is not my fault that you were so gullible. Still – you voted Brexit and you are not allowed to change your mind just because you don’t like to now.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

            It doesn’t Andy.
            It keeps us in for two more years paying billions more and promising to defer to any laws the EU brings in.
            Perhaps you should read the Withdrawal Agreement first before guessing what it has in store for us.

          • NickC
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

            Andy, The dWA continues EU control over the UK by: making us conform to the EU’s single market, including “agri-food” (so the CAP); keeping the UK in the “single customs” territory”; controlling our fish; making us pay ever more money; and subjecting us to the CJEU.

            So, the question is why do you peddle known falsehoods? Ohhh . . . . you’re a Remain.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

          Yes, Andy.

          If it isn’t, then after exit on those terms, their much-trumpeted blue passports should get them past the three hour queues for non-European Union passports at Continental airports, shouldn’t they?

          I wonder how well that would work?

          • NickC
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

            Martin, How well would that work for UK tourists? Not very. So maybe we won’t want to visit your corrupt EU empire as much.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

            Marty

            If you had ever travelled abroad you would know what a stupid post that is

            1) Ive just got a new passport…. its burgundy

            2) The queue at non EU passport control at continental airports is ALWAYS much shorter , who do you think is queuing up there?

            With each post you make you expose your lack of connection to reality

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

          Andy, Read it. Remaining in a “single customs territory” (which is the EU’s customs union) is clearly not leaving the EU’s customs union. Or maybe you have read it, and are just lying to make trouble?

        • Anonymous
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

          Hard Remain, Andy.

          Forced on us by you.

          Naff, isn’t it.

    • J Bush
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:50 am | Permalink

      That was because May’s surrender treaty was not about leaving the EU, but making us a vassal state.

    • Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:19 am | Permalink

      @Garland

      “BRAVE VOTE” – There was nothing brave about this treachery. You surely fail to understand the implications of the way the weasels are destroying not only democracy but our future – You should be ashamed of yourself supporting such anti-democratic activities.

    • rose
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      The EU’s DWA was not Brexit. Why else do you think EU princeling Stephen Kinnock revived it yesterday?

      • Christine
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:57 am | Permalink

        Read the ‘Privileges and Immunities’ section in the draft Withdrawal Agreement. Look who gains from this. We create a group of super citizens (ex EU employees) who don’t pay UK tax and are immune from prosecution.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

          Not quite, Christine.

          Read it again and understand it this time.

          • NickC
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

            Martin, You can’t even understand that forcing the UK into a “single customs territory” with the EU keeps us under EU control.

          • Margaret
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

            I’ll Huff Puff and blow your house down..Do you possess any EI.?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:02 am | Permalink

      May & Hammond’s putrid W/A was not Brexit in any real sense at all. It was even worse than remain. What is really pathetic is the 21 traitors complaining about being kicked out (even thinking they will be allowed back in). No thanks, they would hugely damage. For the now finally a “pro leave” party they would be a huge electoral liability.

      The next Conservative government should not have any MPs in it pretending to be Conservatives. Furthermore, Hammond was a truly appalling Chancellor, giving us the highest and most idiotic taxes for 50 years (while lying that he was cutting taxes and repaying the debt). Together with the dire May he took the party to fifth place and 9% of the vote in the last vote. What party would want such a liablility in it? The Libdims I assume as they like liabilities.

      In my view anyone who supported May W/A (even once and under pressure) needs to be viewed with some suspician which even includes Boris and Mogg.

      An accommodation with the Brexit Party is essential for a clear win.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      Garland

      Wow some people ( you) would have trouble their own head with their own hands

      Your side are trying to stop Brexit , you know you dont have the support of the people you ARE the coup

    • Timaction
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:31 am | Permalink

      A very perverse view of the world. Seek therapy!

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      Garland,

      Have you read the WA? To be fair I had to spread it out over more than a week. I do not think it is a deal, I think it is a process (and not a particularly good one from a UK perspective). I think it was clear in the Conservative manifesto that a deal would include trade negotiated in parallel within the two year timescale post A50. By definition the UK is therefore in bad deal territory and therefore no deal is the democratic default. From the outside it appears that PM Johnson was using this (extended) reality to remind the EU, unfortunately the malignant antidemocrats have won. The majority of people in the UK will suffer from this decision and things will get progressively worse and less progressive (it is telling that the nominally progressive parties are the destroyers).

      • graham1946
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

        Correct.

        According to Article 50, (not just the Tory Manifesto) the WA was to have been done setting out the arrangements for leaving taking account of the future relationship with the EU. The EU broke its own treaty by refusing to take into account the future relationship. They are not entitled to say they would not discuss it until the WA had been ratified, so the whole thing is wrong anyway. Only the dumb Remainers on the UK side let them get away with it and tried to sell a pig in a poke to Parliament probably hoping it would be too complicated for MP’s to bother with, which in the main it probably was.

    • Jake Bennett
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      “Preventing a No Deal” is code for ‘No Brexit’. This has now, finally, incontrovertibly, been proven. Remain MPs dropped their masks last evening, making it clear that all the shenanigans, the posturing, the shouting, are smoke and mirrors: they are hell-bent to stop Brexit. They actually said so.

    • Leaver
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      I’m not sure it is true that Francois, Redwood and Cash will be on the Tory backbenches for much longer. Word on the street has it that Boris will kick out anyone who disagrees with him, including any ERGers who disagree with whatever withdrawal agreement he brings to parliament.

      While I want a withdrawal agreement, kicking out all his backbenchers is too extreme for me. I have difficulties with both Remainers and No Dealers, but I respect the fact they represent two wings of the Conservative party. And … well … if Boris cuts off both wings, it ain’t going to fly.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

        Leaver,

        The difference is that the Remainers are not consistent with the party manifesto under which they were elected.

        • rose
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

          There is the world of difference between voting against the whip to uphold the party’s manifesto on the one hand, and on the other hand conspiring with an EU activist Speaker to seize control of the government business and hand it to the opposition to overthrow the manifesto policy.

        • Leaver
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

          I’m just concerned about the P.M’s ‘what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander’ remark. It shows no loyalty to the E.R.G or those who got him the referendum in the first place.

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

        Leaver, It’s not a question of what MPs think. We, the people, voted to Leave. If the EU will not agree a trade deal without the EU’s direct (full or partial) control of the UK, then the only option left, which conforms to our vote to Leave, is to leave with the WTO trade deal (ie the Remain propaganda term “no deal”).

    • Cliff. Wokingham
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

      What an amazing post…wrong on every point. I would not be surprised if when the new OED is published, anyone looking up wrong will see your post.
      If you are so worried about chlorinated chicken may I suggest you don’t buy it…I would have suggested rinsing it under the tap but, our drinking water is chlorinated too.

      • pauline baxter
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

        Ah but according to the Remainer scaremongering we will have no water after the cliffedge! Better get a water butte quick.

    • pauline baxter
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

      Garland If you had an iota of intelligence you would know that May’s Withdrawal Agreement was written by the EU (Merkel) for the EU. It was commonly labeled BRINO Brexit in name only. That is probably typical of what the EU will offer under article 50 negotiations. At last we have a PM who is willing to leave the EU without such sham negotiation. My guess is that he has been pointing out to EU members that both sides will gain by trade continuing unhindered between us. But I do not know that. What I do know is that you have been HOODWINKED by a load of Remainer scaremongering aimed at preventing a true Brexit

    • Joy Elmes
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

      That was not a deal, it was a stitch up. Contrived by the EU and carried to us by a confirmed remainer who had no intention of leaving.

  4. Mark B
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Well, well, well it looks like our unwritten constitution is being torn apart, all for the sake of Remaining in a political project that has impoverished much of the people it claims to represent.

    My views on another general election are well know here. What is important is that the Conservative Government seek an alliance with the BP. If not, I will support the BP and hope that the Conservatives lose. I do not trust our PM, Alexander Johnson MP.

    Should those conservatives (sic) have the whip removed ? Well of course they should ! If any of us was working for a company and we acted in such a manner that harmed said concern we would be dismissed. These people have acted against the government, their party, party members, the manifesto that they were voted in on and the nation. Such treachery deserves such sanction.

    One final point. It is time that, as we have fixed term parliaments, we must also have fixed term PM’s, MP’s and especially, Speakers of the House. The current incumbent has, in my view, been a national disgrace.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:25 am | Permalink

      There are very many voter who will only vote Conservative if there is no Brexit Candidate so an accommodation with them is essential. Anyway the Brexit Party is needed to ensure that Boris does not rat, post election and sign some W/A with a few fig leaves on it.

      Boris did after all vote for May putrid W/A once already.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:56 am | Permalink

        Why on Earth did Jo Johnson take the job and sign up to leaving (with or without a deal on 31st October) if he feels as he now seems too. What a foolish dithering dope he is. He has at least finally now done the decent think and is leaving as an MP too.

        He should join the Libdims as that is clearly what he is. The Libdims are at least honest with their B******* to Brexit (like Bercow in fact) and their complete and utter contempt for the electorate.

        Max Hasting was on the Daily Politics just now – talking his usual pompous & wrong headed anti-Boris drivel on the issue. Jo Swinson also on – she is clearly scared to death of the voters and an election just like Corbyn.

        • Caterpillar
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

          It is sickening that these people keep using terms like ‘national interest’ as they turn against democracy. J. Johnson appears to be another to think that democracy is not in the national interest, apparently a consistent belief of Remainers, China, N. Korea…

          • Lifelogic
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

            Indeed, someone who voted for May’s vassal state deal three times (and one of the 200 who absurdly voted confidence in the Theresa May one assumes) has not got a clue what the “national interest” is.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

          Jo Johnson thinks throwing this election and having a one way trip to Venezuela led by Corbyn/Mc Donnall/SNP is in the “national interest” I assume. Corbyn a man who is proposing to steal peoples’ hard earned assets off them (at a price of there choosing!) shares, companies, houses, flats….

          His sister Rachael Johnson is another Libdem at heart (and in reality still I understand). So pro EU, anti-liberal, for ever bigger government, ever higher taxes, red tape, climate alarmism, expensive unreliable “renewable” energy, against fracking, nuclear power and any real democracy one assumes. So she is wrong on almost every single thing just like the BBC.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

        Torn between family loyalty and national interest. This is someone who thinks May’s putrid WA was in the national interest and one of the two hundred MPs who voted confidence in the basket case PM Theresa. What on earth does he know about national interest.

        A good friend of the useless tax to death ex-chancellor and IHT ratter G Osborne it seems.

    • JoolsB
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:57 am | Permalink

      Yes it’s crazy. Nigel Farage has offered to form a pact as long as the Tories go for a clean Brexit, i.e. no deal and they have refused. The only beneficiaries of this will be Corby and the Labour party.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

        SNP will also benefit. TBP have more chance have taking fishing constituencies than Tories of holding them.

    • ian terry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

      Mark B

      Speakers of the House. The current incumbent has, in my view, been a national disgrace.

      Totally correct. He too should be now shown the door .

      • jerry
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

        @ian terry; MPs decide such matters, what you or anyone else on this site thinks (bar our host) is irrelevant, and since Wednesday morning I suspect there is an over whelming majority of MPs who not only disagree with your but would re-elect the current Speaker if the Shambles Party were to try and unseat him.

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

          Well, well, Jerry, for someone who denies he is a Remain, you’re sure coming out with a lot of Remain propaganda. It may have escaped your notice but the Speaker is required to be neutral and impartial. Bercow clearly isn’t – he is onside with Remain, so of course the Remain MPs would re-elect him. But that’s the point.

          • jerry
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:48 am | Permalink

            @NickC, You seem to think anyone who believes in DEMOCRACY and our PARLIAMENTARY system must be a Remaner – by doing so you tell us far more about what you think Brexit is about that anything or anyone else, and thus perhaps why Brexit might not be such a good idea if it allows people with a disdain for parliamentary procedures should become to close to the corridors of Whitehall.

            Two weeks ago the govt had a majority, if only a slim one, there was a 50/50 chance that parliament would have agreed a party conference recess, that we would have still been Leaving on 31 Oct. Now though, whilst parliament will not be sitting (High Court intervention besides) the Govt has had to concede that the UK will not now be Leaving 31 Oct, the executive has lost its majority and is now has a double figure deficit, and because it can’t even hold a general election – so around and around they swim like the lame duck they have become, now the PM, only in office for 6 weeks appears to be backing himself into a corner that will see him resign sometimes in Oct.

            Ideology ruling political thinking never works outside of governance by diktat, it was what did for the militant trade unions of the late 1970s, as Kinnock pointed out in that conference speech in 1985 -it would appear to have now done for the europhobic right.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

          jerry

          Top political pundit

          1) Bercow will have to get himself elected at the coming election ( unlikely as an independent, but he could join LD’s or Change lol)

          2) Having got himself elected he would then have to be put forward for the speaker again and win a vote in a newly elected house

          3) Lie down with a cold flannel on your head you are coming down with BDS

          • jerry
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

            @Walter, Non so blind as those who choose not to see.

            1/. There is no GE, at least for now, my comments were about the current parliament. Not some unknown-unknown future parliament.

            2/. He could seek election in a safe (non Conservative) seat, assuming that he doesn’t seek election as an independent in his current constituency, you also make two assumptions, that Bercow is unpopular within his constituency and the Conservatives will be re-elected as a majority government. Then of course there is how people in the Buckingham area voted in the referendum…

            3/. Best lie down Walter, with a cold flannel on your head, like always when caught in the headlights you succumb to a bought of BDS.

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      @Mark B; “a political project that has impoverished much of the people it claims to represent.”

      That line sounds like it fits Thatcherism far more than it fits the EU27, Germany impoverished, France impoverished, Spain & Italy impoverished (even with their EZ debt, partially caused by a capitalist building frenzy in the case of Spain), the Slovak Republic impoverished, Ireland impoverished?

      “What is important is that the Conservative Government seek an alliance with the BP.”

      What has an oil company got to do with this? Oh, you meant The Brexit Party (TBP)…

      If Boris attempts any alliance with either UKIP or TBP he may well loose more votes than he gains.

      “If any of us was working for a company and we acted in such a manner that harmed said concern we would be dismissed.”

      Indeed, but funny how you never said that all the time the rebels were the ERG… Any company employee would indeed have been sacked had the MD, CEO, Chief Accountant and Company sec. been undermined by both such employees, managers and non-execs, to the point were the CEO was heard to utter an unguarded comment about “Bastards” in public.

      “One final point. It is time that, as we have fixed term parliaments, we must also have fixed term PM’s, MPs [and] Speaker [../opinionated rant/..]”

      Indeed, what a greet idea! David Cameron would still be PM, and the next election would be due in June 2020, his cabinet would be europhile, his polices would be europhile, he is likely to have delivered Brexit with the help of the LDs and europhile Labour MPs elected in 2015, whilst Speaker Barcow was elected by MPs, before the 2010 GE and then re elected by MPs after the 2015 and 2017 GEs, so would still be in place – or are you seriously suggesting that PM’s, MP’s and Speakers should only be allowed to stand a set number of times – if so were would our host be, and other senior members of the ERG, more to the point what experience would there be in the HoCs, both the executive and MPs would be wholly reliant on advise from the Civil service…

      • miami.mode
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

        jerry, you’re missing the point completely on the two recent votes that the government lost.

        On the first it took control away from the government and gave it to Corbyn thus effectively making him the Prime Minister and the whip was withdrawn accordingly.

        The second vote was on policy and an additional Tory MP to the 21, I believe it was a woman, voted against the government, but the whip was not withdrawn from her.

        ERG votes were against policy.

        • jerry
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:16 am | Permalink

          @miami.mode; Utterly irrelevant, the executive has not changed and can still govern, just not how it might wish.

          One either accept deifying the whip as acceptable (and the ERG did think it acceptable until now) or you do not, picking and choosing when it is acceptable is trying to have it both ways.

  5. Newmania
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    In what universe are Nicholas Soames Phllip Hammond and Oliver Letwin not Conservatives? Nick Soames is a hugely popular man in my neck of the woods, modest charming and funny .Despite the most profound misgivings he voted for the Deal ( unlike you) and ,with sadness no doubt, accepted the referendum result. If we are not out you are more to blame than him.
    Polls have shown a consistent lead for remain for two years now , your desire for an election has nothing to do with establishing what the people want it is to do with gaming the corrupt system to empower the minority to dictate to the majority.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:51 am | Permalink

      Polls ? Is that what we’re going by now ? Polls show Corbyn should never be PM so can we cancel the next election ?

    • Andy
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

      Exactly. The Brexiteers know they would lose a third referendum to Remain because they will never get 50% of voters backing no deal.

      But they think they may get 30% or so of voters backing a no deal Tory party – and that 30% may be enough for a Tory majority in GE.

      In other words, if you don’t have the numbers – and they don’t – then cheat.

      I think a number of Remain MPs in Leave seats will lose their jobs. But I think the Tories have underestimated how many Leave MPs are at risk in Remain seats. Scotland and London will be virtually Tory free zones – Wales too.

      Tory Little England will become hated-filled rump. Another great reason to build HS2. We can travel through this Brexitland without having to stop.

      • NickC
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

        Andy, We were taken into EU serfdom via Parliament. Was that cheating? So we can be taken out via Parliament too. And you seem to have forgotten the little matter of the Leave vote – how self-serving! And Wales voted to Leave too. Try again.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:17 am | Permalink

      Fewer people voted in total in the EU Elections than voted for Leave in the referendum. There was no 17 million plus Remain voters turning out to vote B******s to Brexit. They do not exist.

    • Woody
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:03 am | Permalink

      The Conservative party was elected on a manifesto that promised to honour the decision of the referendum. Some of the elected members clearly lied. No party that expects to be trusted by their electorate can allow its members to act in such deceitful ways. If they had disagreed with the manifesto they should not have stood for election as Tories. The only poll that should count is the democratically held referendum …. which by the way went to leave after pre voting polls had assured everyone that we would vote to stay.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:14 am | Permalink

      Newmaniac

      Rewriting history . The very people on your side of the debate who have been bigging up Soames over the last few years call him and I quote a lazy, mysoginist upper class entitled , rude objectionable slob. Ive never met him so I dont know.

      Hammond has been a disaster as chancellor, attacking small business ( the very rationale of the EU protect banks and large corporates) , instituting ever more arcane regulation and rewriting tax regulations to go back and attack the little people some more

      All 21 knew the rules of the organisation they belong to, they knew the consequences . They had nothing to lose as they knew none of them would get elected ever again

      If the polls show a consistent remain majority you will need to explain why Remain are so terrified of a general election, surely you’d walk it….. unless as usual you are talking through your backside

      Newmaniac the brain of Britain says , elections dont work they are undemocratic, referendums dont work they are undemocratic , the only fair way is to just appoint someone who agrees with me.

      Surely you MUST have got your Frankfurt transfer by now…. unless of course what you told us so emphatically was wrong

    • Richard1
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:18 am | Permalink

      What could be more democratic than a general election? Surely if you are right the majority will rise up and install the Liberal Democrats in govt? Their policy seems to be to hold another referendum and treat the result as binding so long it’s remain.

      • Fred H
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

        The first Opposition to refuse a GE!! Hilarious.

        • Woody
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

          Especially after spouting off about wanting one for months, indeed years . after they “won” the last election !

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

      Nick Soames may indeed be “modest charming and funny” but he (and the others traitors you mention) were trying to defeat the will of 17.4 million who voted to leave the EU. He stood on a manifesto promising to do so (plus many others who voted remain but respected the result). He and people like him have taken the party to fifth place (and just 9% of the vote) with their total and utter contempt for the electorate.

      He says it is very sad that it has ended this way. Well it was he who made this choice. The consequence was made very clear to them and rightly so. Good riddance, he is/was an electoral liability. We do not want any LibDim Trojan Horses in the party next time. At least another 50-150 or so should be kicked out too. All the dire T May, Alan Duncan types (anyone stupid enough to support HS2). Indeed all the 200 who idiotically voted for confidence in Theresa May are clearly complete and utter idoits (at best)!

      What these people are doing is profoundly anti-democratic. Tying the hands of the PM & trying to overcome the referendum result and to further hand power, money and controls to the anti-democratic EU.

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:26 am | Permalink

      Why did not Labour vote for May’s deal?

    • Oggy
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      Really ? You must be living in a parallel universe.
      Why do you think the remain parties refused to have a GE ?, because they know full well they are going to get hammered when they finally come face to face with the livid electorate.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

      You prefer polls over elections and referenda then.

      Oooookay.

      • Newmania
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

        A referendum is exactly what I want …keep up

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

          A referendum without remain on the ballot as it has already lost?

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

          With a rigged Remain/remain question, no doubt?

          Oooookay.

        • Anonymous
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

          How many ? Until it delivers the right result for you ?

          What does another referendum solve if we end up once more with a Leave public and a Remain parliament ? This is a distinct possibility.

          Let’s have a general election. MP’s intentions on the EU foremost in the campaign.

        • Andy
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

          I don’t want a third referendum- yet.

          I want a hard Brexit to happen. I want it to go – predictably – wrong. After 15-20 years I want to undo it – and to lock up the perpetrators for committing an act of criminal gross negligence against the country.

          And in the meantime I want to wipe out Farage and the hard right Tories for good.

          Brexit and Euroscepticism is a cancer. Treating cancer has painful side effects but these side-effects are the only way to permanently beat it.

          • NickC
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

            Andy, The majority of the world is not in your EU. However would they manage if what you say about Leave was true?

          • Fred H
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

            Andy …..another subject you know f… all about.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

          Newmaniac

          “A referendum is exactly what I want …keep up”

          We had one, you lost, keep up

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

      They voted for May’s putrid deal that would have tied us into the EU until such time as the EU decided to let the UK leave – which might have been never! Some Conservatives! Your idea of a Conservative clearly doesn’t match the rest of us. We now need a General Election to flush away the undemocratic turds and make a largely remainer parliament more representative of public opinion.

      And you might like to talk to Professor John Curtice about polling. He maintains there has been no appreciable change in opinions since the referendum, so a second referendum will solve nothing. Listening to very disaffected democratic-minded contributors to numerous radio programmes, I wouldn’t mind betting that even remain voters are now so disgusted with the antics at Westminster, they just want us to leave.

  6. RichardM
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:30 am | Permalink

    The chlorinated chicken you voted in as PM has been comprehensively out-manoeuvered by Jeremy Corbyn. It is your government that is useless, not Parliament.

    • Dominic
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

      Oh, and by the way. Corbyn is a vehement Eurosceptic and has always been so. As a Marxist he sees the EU as nothing more than a capitalist scam. He despises the EU even more than we do but for very different reasons. I believe the EU is a threat to national democracy, Corbyn believes the EU is an affront to his Marxist ideology

      His only concern is to get his hands on the taxpayer cheque-book and Remain idiots in Parliament are aiding and abetting him.

      • Newmania
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

        Dominic

        Thats right , one of you looks 20th century and sees the triumph of the planned economy and the other concludes that a bit more racially charged Nationalism is what we really need.

        I wonder sometimes if you come from another planet

        • Anonymous
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

          Seeing as the whole point of mass (aka uncontrolled) immigration was the abolition of our nation there had to be consequences of some sort. We had no problem with controlled immigration btw.

          Be thankful that we took to the ballot box and targeted our membership of the EU (after all, the politicians and courts kept blaming the EU for their own inaction.) We are not racists as you insinuate.

          One of the manifestations of the abolition of our nation is Brexit.

          This is the sort of direction a nation takes when you try to abolish it. I don’t fear Corbyn. I don’t live in an affluent place like Lewes. I don’t mind him sharing out what you have with thems oop North.

          It’s quite possible that we’ll just leave it to the students to vote at the next general election then.

          • Anonymous
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

            ’cause you do know Remain comes with Corbyn. Factored that in your figures ?

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

          Newmania, So the EU isn’t nationalistic?

      • pauline baxter
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

        Dominic. Thanks for reminding me to look into Corbyn’s past. I thought he used to be Eurosceptic and is now a turncoat. But his party is ruled by the unions isn’t it. I suspect that is why he is now intent on preventing Brexit. Of course they all want to keep their bums on seats. Surely he has now shown that he is totally incapable of being a prime minister now or ever.

    • Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

      Typical response from a lefty remoaner – The PM has morals – Can’t say the same for your side…

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:31 am | Permalink

      The PM had a very strange way of abusing Mr Corbyn during PMQs, calling him a “chlorinated chicken”, considering that many true Brexiteers have no problems with chlorinated chickens – bring them on, including one Mr Corbyn, if that is what it takes for Tory party to sort out their leadership!

      Whilst Boris is leader, the ERG in the corridors of No.10, should there be a GE, do not assume all Conservative voters will remain conservative voters, Brexit is a unknown-unknown, a Socialist govt is a known-known, the UK has had them before, the country always recovers…

      • Know-Dice
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink

        Socialist govt is a known-known

        But in this case a Corbyn Government would be:

        Things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.

        How many people are going to take that risk?

        Even Labour MPs don’t seem to be on the same page as Corbyn & McDonell.

        • hefner
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

          Indeed, some for Monday, other for Tuesday, another set for Wednesday, and so on. He changes them as often as his underpants.
          Are you so pristinely candid as not to have detected what a wonderful l–r (oops, forbidden word in Good Society) truth-twister he is.
          You might want a biography of him.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

            hefner discovers a politician who tells lies, no one tell him what bears do in the woods or what religion the pope is it might unhinge him

          • hefner
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

            As you infer, libertarian, I am too naive, I just have to accept that everybody in life (and on this blog I guess) lies ‘un peu, beaucoup, passionement, a la folie’. And that the 92k CUP members who voted for the present PM are just so delighted with our present PM now.
            BTW, libertarian, what type of liar are you?

          • libertarian
            Posted September 8, 2019 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

            heffylump

            I’m not a politician, dont belong to a political party and dont trust any politicians

            The polls seem to suggest that not only are the CP delighted but so are a voting majority, with some polls giving him a 14 point lead and poll of polls a 7 point lead

            Vous avez le cervau d’un sandwich au fromage

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

        Jerry, The rest of the world is not in the EU. So far you have not explained why the UK uniquely cannot be independent too.

    • 'None of the above'.
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:02 am | Permalink

      I disagree. He has been out-manoeuvred by some of his MPs who have colluded with other remainers in the opposition. Overall, the majority of this Parliament have worked to thwart the Referendum result.

    • BJC
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:12 am | Permalink

      I believe you have attributed far too much to Jeremy Corbyn who is totally out of his depth. He is merely the mouthpiece for those lurking in the shadows and we are, in fact, witnessing Kier Starmer’s strategy.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

        Corbyn is toxic, and there is an on-going plot to get rid of him and replace him with a pro-EU Blairite. The current labour leader draws his strength from the membership. The Blairites are keeping a close vigil, and as soon as Corbyn’s power base has been sufficiently eroded, he’s toast. Peak Corbyn was in 2017. Let’s see what happens.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

          @Tad Davison; Corbyn is so “Toxic” that not only did he revived, by 2015, a tired failing Labour party but then went on to denied Mrs May a majority in 2017, despite the antics of some Blairirtes within his own PLP – but perhaps that’s what you mean, but Toxic for who…

          • Tad Davison
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

            May was her own worst enemy. The 2017 election exposed her for what she is and the people saw through her. She even sent others to cover for her in televised debates, so lacking is she in confidence and strength of character. That I venture, is why she lost Cameron’s hard-won majority. Corbyn was the beneficiary of her ineptitude, but at that time, he seemed to hold out hope to those who were sick to death of politics as they had always been done.

            I confess to once having a quiet admiration for Corbyn the man. He’d been consistent and had taken a lot of stick for his ideals, but those seem to have been compromised of late, particularly his opposition to the UK’s membership of the EU.

            A man of principle does not change unless he’s proven to be in error, so I wonder where the conversion happened on Corbyn’s way to Damascus, and what gave rise to it?

            I suggest it was pressure from within his party, and that shows weakness, not strength.

            Now I’ll let you into a secret. As well as Tories, I also have Labour MPs on my contacts list. That’s how I can say with absolute certainty that Corbyn will be gone just as soon as he ceases to be useful to the Blairites. They want somebody like their former messiah who can command a sizable lead in the polls. Peak Corbyn has passed, and once the tabloids have gone to work on him, it will surely finish him off.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

      RichardM

      Blimey loads of remainers on here gloating about abandoning any pretence at democracy . Whats interesting is they seem to think they’ve won and stopped Brexit

      How quaint

      • RichardM
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

        libertarian
        54% voted at the last election for parties opposed to a no-deal brexit. This government has made no attempt to get a deal, and have a ‘smooth and orderly brexit’, as repeated 3 times in their own manifesto.
        No ones gloating, Johnson is still PM after all, and will more than likely win an election.
        I wasnt particularly fussed either way about EU membership back in 2016 but am just sick to the back teeth of the racist card the leave campaign played to get the populist vote, and all the lies and deceit of Johnson and the ERG is trying to force a no-deal brexit on us, after being promised this wold not happen in the referendum campaign and manifestos.

      • jerry
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

        @Walter; But far more Brexiteers on here who do not understand democracy though and the more they blear the more some of us are going to reconsider if we were correct in accepting the democratic vote, after all you lot don’t…

        How quaint”

        Without a majority in the UK parliament how do you think Boris is going to deliver Brexit now, it’s not that he can even rely on the Brexiteer Labour MPs as they are in single numbers and his majority deficit is well into double figures.

        Prediction: Boris quits as PM by the end of next week. Sounds far fetched but so did Boris removing his own majority this time last week!

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

          Jerry, The democratic vote was to be free of EU control. Even though we were warned by senior politicians that that might mean a WTO Brexit.

          • jerry
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

            @NickC; The democratic result of the single question referendum indeed to Leave but how many more times, there has been no vote on How nor When to Leave, so the will of the democratically elected parliament is Sovereign, not the Executive, nor rabble.

            For the umpteenth time of asking, and please answer this time, had the result been Remain would you have accepted Euro Federalists demand that the Remain vote was a vote to join the Euro?

          • NickC
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

            Jerry, The Leave vote means that the UK should no longer be controlled by the EU. I would have accepted “a deal” to that effect – no EU control – though I always preferred (the misnamed) no deal.

            Exit with a WTO deal was discussed during the campaign in 2016 frequently. Quite clearly a WTO exit conforms to Leave – it is one of the options that ensures the UK escapes from under EU control completely.

            No, I would not have accepted joining the EMU, because we already had an opt from that. Cameron specifically sold “Remain” on the basis of his “renegotiation” which included all previous opt outs, plus his opt out from ever closer union.

            You should not keep redefining what the issue is just to suit your argument.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

          Jerry

          Thanks but I stopped listening to your political analysis when you told me that Labour won Canterbury due to UKIP splitting the vote

          note to everyone else . UKIP didn’t stand a candidate in Canterbury in the last election

          • jerry
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

            @Walter; A party does not need to stand in a constituency, or any constituency, to make another party appear toxic to voters in a given constituency. After all The Labour Party suffered such a fate in the past from association, for example in 1987, despite Militant having been expelled from their positions of influence by then.

            Try being a little less tribal with your own political analysis.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 8, 2019 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

            Jerry

            I’m not tribal, I dont belong to a political party , I dont vote consistently for the same party

            Try being a little less wrong in your analysis

            ps For future reference UKIP has almost no presence in Canterbury , they had about 4 members . They once got a councillor elected , but he quit UKIP and became an independent . I already told you how Labour won the seat

    • Richard1
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

      Too late for that one for you, Boris got there first. Corbyn as a chlorinated chicken will stick. Bad luck.

      • RichardM
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

        6 PMq’s questions and he can do is insult, lie, or tell half truths. Hes pathetic.

        • RichardM
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:32 am | Permalink

          And now even his own brother cannot work with him.

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

          RichardM, So what have Remains been doing except lie, or tell half truths, about chlorinated chicken?

          • RichardM
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

            NickC
            What half truths ? That the US has lower animal welfare standards than us, and this government would be willing to drop our standards to theirs ? in other words, lose sovereinty for cheap chicken?? or have you misunderstood ???

          • NickC
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:42 am | Permalink

            RichardM, USA chickens are not coated in chlorine, they are cooled with a water spray to which about the same amount of chlorine is added as to our swimming pools to reduce infections. The USA has higher food standards than the EU.

            As usual with Remains you (purport to) fail to be aware of the difference between the EU treaties and other treaties. A normal treaty limits the agreement to the wording within the treaty. The EU treaties allow the EU to make entirely new law. Over and over again.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      More like Dominic Grieve doing this than J Corbyn (who is clearly not bright enough himself to do it).

      But the war is not yet over.

      Did anyone see the rather foolish Sikh MP attacking Boris Johnson yesterday with his surely fake outrage and rant. This over Boris’s entirely sensible article defending the right of people to wear whatever religious or other garb they wish. But everyone also has the right to say some outfits look a bit odd (in whatever way or words they wish too). That is freedom of speech mate. If you cannot offend you do not have freedom of speech. This MP clearly want to kill freedom of speech no thanks get lost.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

        He did nothing of the sort. He did not suggest that Johnson broke a law, nor that there should be new laws banning those expressions. He merely pointed out what kind of a person Johnson appears to be. One lacking politeness, that is.

        And he did so very well.

    • ukretired123
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      You didn’t like that 1st one by Boris obviously! Oh dear, never mind what a shame!

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:52 am | Permalink

      Sounds like you are bothered by the prospect of getting chlorinated chicken from the United States as part of any future trade deal. Maybe you should check out how much chlorinated food you eat already.

      Just wait until the Blairites boot Corbyn out.

  7. Mick
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    The one and only reason these cowards in Parliament don’t want a General Election and want a people’s vote is because unlike in a General Election there spineless necks aren’t put on the block and can be kicked out of Westminster , cowards the lot of them but our time will come and we will have our say at the ballot box, COWARDS

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:38 am | Permalink

      @Mick; But they do want a GE, they just want to make sure that the executive uphold the usual precedents should a GE be called.

      The real “COWARDS” have been those who refused to return to the people, asking a very specific question via a referendum, such as asking if the UK should remain in a/the Customs Union post Brexit. They demanded the return of democracy to the UK but then refused such democracy at the first hurdle.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

        What point is there in having another referendum and putting that question on the ballot paper?
        The EU has said it will not move from the Withdrawal Agreement and has said we cannot leave the EU and still be in the Customs Union. so your preferred version of Brexit whilst it could get a majority is a fantasy that almost definitely the EU will never accept.
        It seems to me that only a new deal that has been agreed by both UK and EU can be put to the people.

      • graham1946
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:23 am | Permalink

        As Jo Swinson said, very democratically ‘If we hold another referendum and it again shows leave, I’ll ignore it’. So what’s the point?

        The true face of Remain. If people want that they can vote for the LibDems (oxymoron).

      • Matt Ryan
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:41 am | Permalink

        jerry

        Much more likely any 2nd referendum question would be:

        Do you want the WA (vassilage).
        Remain in the EU.

        The aim would be to deny any Leave option.

        • APL
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

          Matt Ryan: “The aim would be to deny any Leave option.”

          Jerry knows this, which is why he persistently advocates for a second referendum.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

          @Matt Ryan; Well that might be the question & outcome now, but last week and certainly until Tuesday afternoon the question would have been for Boris & Co. to decide – such as asking about staying in a CU or not, “No” being the most likely outcome.

          • Woody
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

            But we voted to leave the CU, as was spelt out in the remainer propaganda pamphlet we all got … at great cost. A WTO “deal” will do fine.

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

        Jerry, We have already had a referendum that asked whether we wanted to remain in the EU’s customs union. In 2016. We said no. You must have been asleep.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

          @NickC; No, we were asked if we wanted to remain in the “European Union” or not, that is not the same as asking about a Customs Union, after all neither Norway nor Monaco are members of the “European Union” but both are members of a/the Customs Union.

          Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

          It’s a bit worrying that you are so quick to show your, obvious, miss understanding of the question put, by doing so are you not simply re-enforcing the calls of those who say the people did not know what they were voted on/for?…

          • NickC
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

            Jerry, We voted to escape from EU control. What bit of being controlled by the EU’s customs union laws don’t you understand?

      • pauline baxter
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

        Jerry. What planet are you on? Customs union? UK wants to trade with the whole world. We did for Centuries, right up to 1973. Surely the Customs Union of the EU is precisely the bit that is now preventing the UK from being a prosperous trading nation again. Corbyn doesn’t want that of course. Apparently he wants to re-run the USSR experiment that showed his economics does not work.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

          @pauline baxter; I’m living on Planet Earth thanks, and you?

          Norway is in a CU with the EU but trades quite freely with the RotW as a third country, as does Iceland. So perhaps, rather than bleating, you should go and research the EUCU and the EEA, noting their similarities and differences.

          I’m not saying that the UK should be in any CU, just that holding a referendum and (hopefully) ruling it out would ensure a WTO exit with a clear mandate.

          As for your comment about Corbyn and the USSR, that just goes to show how ill-informed you are. Try searching back through this site and you should find our hosts recent article on the differences between Marxism and Socialism….

          • NickC
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

            Jerry, Norway is not in the EU’s customs union. Perhaps you should do some research?

    • Newmania
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:57 am | Permalink

      No it is because a referendum between the reality we see and the remaining we know could not be lied about ( well not as much) and according every poll Brexit would be dead.
      An election resolves nothing except possibly for the Conservative Party that is especially true if those Parties advocating a People,s vote win the popular vote but with far less seats which is predicted
      You people are like children who turn up a for game of football get one lucky goal and pick the ball up… a bunch a useless wimps running off home to mummy ….” Its my ball boo hoo boo hoo ”
      Its not that you have an inferiority complex , it is that you are actually inferior

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

        Newmania, You know that departing from the EU is perfectly possible and perfectly sound because most of the planet is not in the EU. So why do you lie about Brexit being “dead”, and engage in ad hominems about the supposed “inferiority” of Leaves?

      • libertarian
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

        Oh look everyone Newmaniac proclaims himself superior to every Brexit voter

        That would be the Newmania that posted abusive, rude know all posts telling us the city would be moving to Frankfurt and there would be 500,000 jobs losses across the UK

        Neither has happened, neither is going to happen . NM is though still with us and a German insurance friend who cant seem to be able to do a simple thing like open an office in the UK

        Nemaniacs version of superior is a bit odd to be honest

  8. cynic
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    This shows how poisonous membership of the EU has been to our democratic institutions. We can now see how deeply the rot has set in. Every legal means must be taken to defeat these EU fellow travellers. They are beneath contempt.
    Please ignore the ridiculous trolls, they have nothing to say worth reading.

    • Shirley
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

      Well said, cynic. The art of avoiding and neutering democracy has been learned at the feet of the EU Commission.

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:39 am | Permalink

      @cynic; I have duly done as you ask, I have ignored your comment”

      • Tad Davison
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

        Reading your earlier posts, you seem to want to ignore the result of the 2016 referendum too jerry. I’m not entirely surprised, but I am disappointed.

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

          Tad, Indeed Jerry has shown his true colours.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

          @Tad Davison; I have said many times I accept the Leave decision, and personally see advantaged in having a (democratically arrived at) WTO exit, but there was no vote on either How nor When the UK should leave, thus it is actually you and those who share your views who have not accepted the result, always trying to expand on the narrow legally mandate given in ways that you would not accept from Euro-Federalists had Remain won

          One of the main campaigning point of both Vote Leave and UKIP was the need to return democracy to the UK parliament and by extension the UK people, so why do you now want to deign that direct democracy -scared of loosing, being forced to remain in a CU such as the one within EEA membership perhaps?

          • Edward2
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

            Still on the how and the when Jerry?
            Problem is the EU will not accept your version of Brexit.

          • Tad Davison
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

            I seem to recall you once said you voted to leave. You must therefore have been swayed by the same arguments as I and 17.4 million others, chiefly, that we would be leaving the Single Market, the Customs Union, and the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

            Having been assured by the Prime Minister of the day that were the country to vote to leave, he would send the article 50 letter the very next day. It was reasonable to assume once that period had ended, the UK would be out. It didn’t quite turn out that way, and the leavers who hold the balance of power in the House of Commons are still at it, trying to deny us our right.

            I have no qualms about parliament being sovereign, but the referendum was something given to the people to determine. They chose to leave, but it is this lop-sided remain parliament that cannot accept the result and has done everything to try and thwart it. On this matter, they should butt out and let Brexit play its course unimpeded.

    • Mark B
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:44 am | Permalink

      I agree.

      The one thing that they have not counted on though, is that the PM can advise Her Majesty not to give the bill Royal Assent.

      Labour are finished. They have betrayed their core voters. All that remains is to see if the Tories will follow suit.

      • 'None of the above'.
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:11 am | Permalink

        Mark B,

        I agree and, last night thought that was the likely outcome, especially since the Lords looked likely to run the clock down. However another thought has occurred this morning. At around 1.30 this morning, it was announced that agreement had been reached to progress the Bill and make it ready for the Commons at 5.00pm today.
        This surely could only have come about with the agreement of the PM.
        I wonder if he plans to arrange for Royal Assent and call JC’s bluff by tabling another motion for a GE before prorogation?
        My understanding is that he has HM’s approval to Prorogue ‘not before 9th September’, so he will have time.

        • Mark B
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

          I hear tat there is to be another attempt at getting a GE. My guess here is that he is going to go for a, ‘Confidence in the Government’ vote under the Fixed Term Parliament Act. If he loses, which he might, he can fix a date for a GE. There has to be at least 25 working days before that date. If he sets it close enough he could ask the Queen to dissolve parliament and nix the legislation before it gets to HM. The thing is, if he does not do a deal with the BP, the BP will stand against him and he will lose. Good news is, that by the time parliament reconvenes we may be out of the EU.

          • NickC
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

            MakB, A ‘Confidence in the Government’ vote under the Fixed Term Parliament Act would be a disaster. Corbyn would form a Remain coalition government in the 14 day period allowed for just that. That’s what the Remains are planning, advised by the EU.

      • pauline baxter
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

        Mark B I thought that but didn’t say so for fear of giving the TRAITORS any hints. Hope and pray that we are correct.

        • Mark B
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

          There is nothing they can do to stop him. They only thing they can do is challenge him for the leadership and since a lot of Vichy Remainers have just been kicked out that option looks less likely.

      • jerry
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

        @Mark B; The Queen does not need to take the, unconstitutional, advise of her PM, Parliament is Sovereign, not the Executive, we the people elect MPs (600+ of them), not a PM and cabinet.

        • Andy
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:41 am | Permalink

          You’re talking rubbish. Her Majesty acts on the advice of Her Ministers. And you say ‘Parliament is Sovereign’ but you should remember that Parliament is not the House of Commons: it is ‘the Crown, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons in Parliament assembled’.

    • James1
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

      Outrageous that such a Kafkaesque situation should have been allowed to develop in Parliament. We have sanctimonious hypocrites and duplicitous forces of oppression effecting to march under the banners of freedom. Fortunately enough of the electorate are extremely good at smelling rats and can see through all manner of political subterfuge. We will have our say in the not too distant future, and will unerringly expel the culprits who have sought to obstruct the Brexit that was voted for. In the meantime the real heroes are those MPs who opposed Mrs May’s disgraceful draft Withdrawal Agreement and any variation of it that would have consigned us to vassalage under a foreign entity.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:26 am | Permalink

      Exactly.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      The EU did not prorogue parliament. The Conservatives did.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

        Prorogation is pretty routine stuff. It usually precedes a Queen’s Speech. Apart from regurgitating tabloid and BBC waffle and faux astonishment, what is the point you’re trying to make?

        • Tabulazero
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

          My point is that you should not take people for idiot and that the extremely long prorogation was specifically designed to thwart Parliament’s ability to sit at a crucial time.

          It’s so transparent that it’s quite insulting that the Cummings did not even try to hide it very well

          • Tad Davison
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

            Let’s settle it then and have a General Election. That way, the people can decide. Or would that be inconvenient to the opposition who would now obfuscate and delay to suit their own ends?

    • Peter
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

      It’s tragic how our country has been so divided over this issue. Until we start making an effort to understand both sides of the debate, this is only going to get worse. Even if the UK leaves the EU on 31st October, that will not heal the divide, it will only make it worse. This current trajectory is going to destroy our country, and may be far more threatening than whether we’re in the EU or out of it.

      • 'None of the above'.
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

        I agree, but people must be made to understand that membership or non membership of the EU is a binary choice. If one uses direct democracy to ask the people a binary question and are unhappy with the answer, one should not use the theories of representational democracy as an excuse to ignore the peoples answer.
        Particularly if said politicians support by 6:1 the referendum in the first place.

        The truth is, if they need to offer a referendum they may lack competence.
        If they ignore the answer they lack honour and integrity.

        We need a General Election…………NOW!

        • Peter
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

          The referendum 3 years ago asked a simple question: “Leave” or “Remain”. And you take the stance that “Brexit means Brexit” which is your prerogative.

          The fly in the ointment is that lots of promises were made as part of the Leave campaign. It was always offered as being with a deal, and that it would be the easiest deal ever, and that the UK would be holding all the cards. Some people chose “Leave” because of those promises. We don’t know how many, but it’s probably quite a lot, and those people are now feeling betrayed that their vote for “Leave” has been interpreted as “Leave without a deal”.

          I don’t think it’s unreasonable to find out how big that group is before making huge changes.

      • Peter
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

        This post was not written by me.

        I think most people have considered the other side. However, the country made a choice three years ago which is not being honoured.

        Consequently the 52% majority feel betrayed. Vested interests are encouraging the minority as a means of denying Brexit.

  9. Turboterrier
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:38 am | Permalink

    For all the people across the country who thought that our mother of parliaments would if nothing else would despite everything leap at the chance to be free of the clutches of the EU and not become a vassel state of the forth coming European Federation as clearly stated by them, would have not rushed through such a proposal. All those that voted for the commencement of the leaving process and now decide that they have betrayed their party manifesto and commitment to their constituencies should if not sacked should all resign on mass. What happens if one leader of the 27 vetoes another extension. Does the EU really need a country behaving like this? If they refuse an extension TBP will be sent home so that gets rid of a group of agitators at the heart of their parliament.

  10. J Bush
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    I understand Benn’s Bill has an amendment because Kinnock lobbed in a 4th vote for May’s surrender treaty into the Bill.

  11. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    There must surely be a way out of this situation John. How can it be right that the government is left powerless? Even worse, we have been denied the chance to have a voice. Something is radically wrong. It feels like we are living in China not the UK. Our MPs have finally shown the world that the UK is not a democratic country. Unless Boris joins forces with the BP when we finally have an election I won’t be voting Tory. I do wonder why we vote at all when our decision is overturned and MPs get to change that decision. I wonder what you must be thinking about your party at this moment in time? A great party has been reduced to rabble and while its disappointing to you, its devastating to we, the voters.

  12. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    I am afraid putting the blame on Parliament is abrogating responsibility.

    Your party voted in Mrs May as leader, your party squabbled and dithered letting her fawn over all factions instead of taking a strong line and direction. Your party then failed to fully back its leader’s agreement.

    We are where we are because of the Conservative party, the opposition parties did what they were supposed to do, oppose.

    The strong line of late is pure electioneering, playing to the crowd.

    We are going to end up staying in the EU I think. And although the media and the vested interests have not helped, the blame lies with the government and the Parliamentary Conservative Party.

  13. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    Off topic, the Chancellor was highly profligate with our money yesterday.

    He spent more than we have.

  14. Richard1
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    The important thing now is to win an election and make sure we do not get a neo-marxist govt. Whilst Boris has got himself into a position of not being able to be party to any extension, it seems to me to be neither here nor there whether Brexit is 31 Oct or 31 Jan. But I assume the EU will make any extension conditional on another referendum, and that must be part of the remain plan.

    Do you think the actions of the PM in chucking out 21 MPs and the reported foul mouthed rants of Mr Cummings make a Conservative victory more or less likely?

  15. jerry
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    “A pro EU coalition did have the necessary votes to push through a fundamental constitutional bill effectively overturning the referendum result in just four hours yesterday.”

    That is untrue, the referendum asked about leaving, the Bill yesterday merely changed WHEN the UK will leave should the govt fail to agree a WA with the EC/EU before 31st Oct, you did not accuse ex leader of your party Mrs May of “effectively overturning the referendum result” when she asked parliament repeatedly for an extension to the A50 process.

    “The truth is the EU has negotiated the deal it wants, and the UK Parliament and people have decisively rejected that same deal.”

    The first part of your sentence may or may not be true, us mere plebs will find out in 20 to 30 years (when cabinet papers are made public) but the second is a figment of your imagination, the public have never been asked about the WA, neither via a referendum nor a GE.

    “The Bill went through with just a handful of amendments rushed to the chamber at the last minute, with no proper time for consideration or for external advice.”

    Well what do you expect when your leader wants to suspend Parliament early next week!

    “The Commons then refused to vote for a new Parliament.”

    Not quite, they are happy to agree to your leaders wish to hold a early GE, but only after yesterdays Bill becomes an Act and the law. Again it is in your leader’s hands what happens next, if he is forced to remain in an office he no longer want, in office but not in power or he does the decent and correct thing in allowing the DEMOCRATIC will if our Sovereign parliament. It seems that sanity returned to the executive in the small hours as that appears to be what will now happen.

  16. Alan jutson
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    So we will now have a parliament full of the majority of politicians who are prepared to accept whatever the EU decide to offer us
    Thus the UK is now in effect under the full control of the EU
    More money down the drain
    Uncertainty for very many more years which certainly will affect jobs and investment
    More EU rules laws and regulation to follow

    In effect the politicians have now voted to give their own power away to a Foreign power block and pay for that privilege with our taxes

    Absolutely crass and difficult to believe
    Who would of thought we were the 5th largest economy in the world

  17. Peter van LEEUWEN
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    There is an inconsistency between the briefings by the PM and the daily EC briefing in Brussels:
    The PM speaks of (real) progress.
    The EC distinguishes “process” and “progress”.
    A process has been restarted, i.e. there are talks at technical level twice a week.
    Progress will be reported as soon as there will be any.

    • rose
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

      The Commission is manipulating our parliament and public opinion with these utterances.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

        @rose: the EC has to give answers to the barrage of Brexit questions by UK journalists every day at the mid day briefing.
        O finde It all rather too nice towards Britain, as they didn’t say that the UK side was just appearing without serious stuff.
        By now, via a leaked report it has become clear that the negotiations have been in a state of paralysis.
        That is in direct conflict with the PM’s claims.
        Who speaks the truth here?

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

          PvL, Only because the EU won’t let go of the UK, and won’t negotiate a trade deal. The EU is intransigent, and acting in bad faith. There’s a surprise!!!

      • jerry
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

        @rose; As is the White House, or at least someone using Twitter, but not a bleat from you about that though -why not blame TASS too whilst you’re having your next rant!..

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

          Jerry, Because the EU is the top tier of our government (see Declaration 17 of Lisbon), whereas the White House isn’t.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

      Ah… Restarting “Process” is “Progress”… 🙂

      Who decides “Real” is conjecture…

    • graham1946
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:35 am | Permalink

      Isn’t it a bit soon? Mummy Merkel gave Boris a month to come up with something. When that time expires will be time to judge progress. I doubt there will be any especially as our own Remainer Parliament has now urged the EU not to give any ground. No deal is the only way, or revocation of Article 50 and whatever consequences flow from that.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

      PvL

      Hmmm The EU said no more negotiations, then hours later submitted a proposal on fishing rights …. Personally I dont believe any of them. The fewer politicians we have the better in my opinion

  18. Roy Grainger
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    As I suspected long ago the Conservative Party are not fit for purpose – they are institutionally Remain as the calls to re-instate Hammond and co show. That is all fine by me as it boosts Farage’s support for the next election, the past days have clarified that TBP is the only way out of the EU.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

      Not fit for purpose, maybe – as it stands. It would have been nice to change the minds of those remainers who have since been booted out, but that wasn’t likely to happen with pro-EU puppets and place-people. Bring on a General Election and let’s get a majority pro-Brexit government! Let’s do away with these nonsense remain politicians and have this matter settled in accordance with the people’s expressed wish to leave the EU.

  19. RichardM
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Richard Benton is one of the most principled, decent Tory politicians around. I might even vote for him next time if he stands as an independent. Huge mistake by Johnson, and he has the audacity to try blaming the chief whip in front of he 1922 committee for his decisions.
    He is undoubtedly the worst of the last 3 PMs we’ve had to endure.

    • JoolsB
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

      Well a remainer would say that wouldn’t they?

  20. Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:58 am | Permalink

    So Brexit is dead. Do you have any more Options?

  21. Sea Warrior
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    The only ploy left now is to deny the bill Royal Assent.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      I think you mean – “Queens Consent”

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:21 am | Permalink

      @Sea Warrior; “The only ploy left now is to deny the bill Royal Assent.”

      Does Boris really want to be PM, in office but not in power, until 2022, or when ever the majority opposition can make muck stick -Brexit or no Brexit. He can not hide behind a Prorogued parliament for ever.

      Parliament is Sovereign, not the Executive, what is more the referendum asked about Leaving, the people have never been asked when the majority wish to Leave. Do you even understand what the word democracy means?…

      • Edward2
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

        Now you want a referendum about when we want to leave on top of the other one about how we want to leave.
        It is going to be a big ballot paper.
        Presumably we would have a calendar and be asked to circle a date.

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

        Jerry, The people are sovereign in a democracy ….

  22. Andy
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    What monumental rubbish.

    This bill does not block Brexit. It does not thwart ‘the will’ of the minority of the people. It simply say no no-deal Brexit at the moment.

    It is actually the hard Brexiteers who are trying to defy the people – though I appreciate they are better at shouting ‘traitor’.

    You are – falsely – claiming a mandate for no deal which you do not have. Vote Leave was clear in 2016. Voting leave meant a deal – and a careful change. Labour’s 2017 manifesto backed Brexit but ruled out no deal. The Conservative manifesto talked – at length – about a smooth transition and a deep a special partnership. You all hark back to the ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’ slogan but completely ignore the two detailed pages of policies which it’s contained within. In any case – the majority of voters rejected the Tory manifesto anyway.

    We are in this mess because – in 2016 – Brexiteers made promises they have been unable to keep. ‘Oh it’s Remoaners’ you all whine. No. It is all entirely down to you. As the public inquiry will confirm.

  23. agricola
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    Parliament is playing in La La land. Not only would they deny the electorate the result of their referendum, they are putting themselves in conflict with their own manifestoes. Like alchoholics, gamblers, and drug addicts, they are in denial. They are in need of political rehab once released from the responsibility of governing the country. A task they are patently unfit to undertake. The longer this goes on the deeper becomes their affliction all to the detriment of the UK.

    I am not au fait with the running of Parliament, if such a term is not an exageration of Engish usage, but it would appear to me that the sooner we have an election the better. The Conservative party needs to be cleared of it’s traitorous element by the constituency party, as a prerequisite to candidate selection. There needs to be some honest talk and cooperation with the Brexit party to ensure that there is no conflict of interest in any constituency. Looking at the polls suggests that such cooperation will achieve the required result. I hope that Boris has that “House of Cards” ruthlessness to achieve it.

    • agricola
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

      Why no moderation

  24. Bob Dixon
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    We now have a proper Conservative party with a PM who has a plan for invigorating The UK. The de wipped MP’s are now history. Bring on the GE.

  25. Julie Williams
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Unbelievable: members of the Cabinet want the rebels brought back into the Parliamentary Party?
    Labour now doesn’t want an election after years of howling for one and might even support an amended Withdrawal Agreement after consistently voting it down( by the way, Corbyn better watch his back as the likes of Benn, Kinnock and Starmer push forward: second Labour civil war imminent).
    Bercow, the partial Speaker, bringing shame on his position. to hand control of treaty policy to a foreign entity: Johnson should refuse to pass the Act as the precedent is too horrific, do a Blair in 1999.
    House of Lords:why even bother with a charade of debate, just do what the Remain majority intend, still, nice to know they can shift their bottoms if it’s in their interests.
    Second Referendum: what a joke, if we vote “the wrong way” it will be ignored again.
    After more than three years of being ignored and abused, the contempt that the ordinary voter feels for Parliament won’t go away, they can delay a General Election but British people might be slow to anger but won’t forget: every day of delay gives more time to rally an opposition.
    Parliament is going to pay a heavy price but we will get democracy back.

  26. Peter van LEEUWEN
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    I’m surprised that not more attention is given to “alternative arrangements” of the non-technical nature, of which there are at least two:

    * An Offer the EU and UK Cannot Refuse: A Proposal on How to Avoid a No-Deal Brexit”, a recent proposal by an independent expert group (proposed by Weiler, Joseph H.H., Sarmiento, Daniel; Faull, Jonathan)

    * Recent proposals by the UUP (Irish Times: UUP suggests proposals to replace Irish backstop)

    After all, in all scenarios (except revoking article 50), also a “no deal” scenario, a solution for the Irish no border – border will have to be found or will come to haunt you.

    • julie williams
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

      Pretty obvious, really; neither the EU nor Remainers ( the majority in Parliament but not their electorate) accept that the UK will leave the EU so why should they be the least interested in practical ways how this can be achieved, it is not in their interests to do so.

    • outsider
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

      Dear Peter van Leeuwen:
      As a voter who would prefer a clean break/WTO/No deal to either Mrs May’s deal or remaining in the EU, I must say that you are writing much good sense today.
      Mr Johnson came to the premiership by saying he would negotiate a new and better deal, as so many of us want, and that “no deal” was a million to one default. Yet he was unable to say over the past two days that detailed proposals had been made to EU institutions and either unable or unwilling to say what the proposals would be. Some of these proposals would be technical, requiring evaluation, so it is nonsense to suggest that negotiating tactics required them to be held secret until the last moment. Moreover, no attempt seems to have been made to refute his chief advisor Dominic Cummings’ reported remark that the talks were “a sham”.
      This is, to say the least, disappointing to those of us supported his programme and powerful ammunition for those who oppose it.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

      It’s very simple. The UK continues to admit goods from the Republic of Ireland tariff free (and I don’t give a damn if that breaks WTO rules). We ensure that our regulations on goods quality are equally or less onerous than the EC’s regulations. That way we need only spot checks, away from the border.

      What the EU and the Republic of Ireland do with regard to goods exported from Northern Ireland to the Republic is up to them. The UK will no longer be responsible for the EU’s idiotic Customs Union and over regulated Single Market. It’s THEIR PROBLEM, not ours.

      And let’s have none of this nonsense about ‘the island of Ireland’. There is no such State – it is merely a geographical area – and if the Good Friday Agreement implies otherwise, then that Agreement is a pile of crap. If Republicans resume their violence, we can give it back to them tenfold by reconstituting the B Specials.

      I trust that we can now look forward to an end to your bellyaching.

    • NickC
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

      PvL, The UK/Eire border is no more a “problem” than the UK/Netherlands border post Brexit.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

      As if right on cue, Leo Varadkar has come up with simple, indeed obvious, proposals as to how the Republic will handle imports from the UK post Brexit. As far as possible, checks will be made at ports, airports and in cities. However, some checks close to the Irish border will be necessary. There, that wasn’t too difficult. Note the complete absence of need for an Irish backstop.

  27. Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

    Superb speeches last night, especially from Bill Cash, yourself, and the Tory MP that spoke before you – but you must have felt like you were banging your head against a brick wall… You all so rightly called out the remainers as being deceitful and maneuvering to get a second referendum to close down the subject of Brexit..
    It strikes me that while the ability of speakers in the Hoc’s is of a high quality, the ability of those that should be listening simply do not take in what has been said…or ignore the honesty of it. By the speeches on the opposition benches, it was clear they had no intention of following a mandate – Do they hate us that much, that they would lock us into the EU in this way, that no rational being would ever contemplate…! It seems so.

  28. formula57
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

    A parliament of quislings too frit to face the people.

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:27 am | Permalink

      @formula57; A new Executive to “frit” to accept the will of the Sovereign parliament, so much so it has sacrificed its OWN majority.

      • Bob
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

        Problem is Jerry, the Sovereign parliament seems to be in Brussels, the place where the likes of Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond and Theresa May take their orders from.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

          @Bob; Nonsense, the EP is not even sitting, unlike the People’s Parliament of the UK, currently at SW1A 0AA…

          • Bob
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

            @Jerry,
            I wasn’t referring to the EP.
            I’m referring to the the people that actually run the project.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

        So a GE as the PM suggested and had a majority vote is the democratic thing to do, but Parliament denies the UK a functioning Government.

        LibDems don’t want UK sovereignty, Labour do not even want to allow a functioning UK Government.

        No democracy and no Governemnt, the policies of democrats and progressives? It stinks.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

          @Caterpillar; The govt can function, so long as it does what the majority Sovereign parliament want, do you have a problem with that?.. Oh, I see what you mean. 😈

          “No democracy and no Governemnt, the policies of democrats and progressives? It stinks.

          I agree, but that is what we have had since June 2017, simply because some on the Govt benches talked-the-talk about democracy but repeatedly failed to walk-the-walk when it came to sorting out the mess.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

        Cameron gave the decision to remain or leave the EU to the people for them to decide. This useless Parliament has yet to implement that decision.

        I am all for a sovereign parliament, but this parliament is meddling in a matter that was left to the people. It should leave it well alone and concern itself with other matters. This paralysis is just not on. I would sack every single one of them who threw obstacles in the way.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

        jerry

        One day you might get a fact right. If you go and actually look the Executive DID ACCEPT the new bill . Apart from that another great jerry post

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

          @Walter; I know that you spend most of your time in dreamland Libby but even for you your comment is unusually unobservant.

          You claim that the executive did accept the will of the HoC. Indeed, but not until it had in effect sacked 21 or so of its own MPs, lost another to a defection, and were forced screaming & shouting to accept the inevitable at about 3am this morning 05 Sept. by all accounts.

          Any Govt with a wafer thin majority of One would have accepted on Monday they were beaten, or at least by the time the vote was held on Tuesday 03 Sept, thus preserving that majority.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

      A parliament of quislings too frit to face the people.

      Spot on!

  29. Everhopeful
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Why hasn’t Bercow been removed? Can’t the Whip be taken from him too?
    Yesterday Rees Mogg spoke out against the constitutional outrages perpetrated..how can all that be ok and no punishment result?
    How about using The Civil Contingencies Act 2004….a nasty bit of Labour legislation but it sounds pretty powerful.
    And again…as with Mrs M ( unless this is all play acting) ….had no one foreseen all this? Where were the contingency plans?
    Utterly devastating.

    • rose
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:40 am | Permalink

      The majority in Parliament are keeping him in place because the majority in Parliament want Brexit scuppered. Margaret Beckett gave the game away when she said of Bercow, “Brexit trumps bad behaviour.”

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:52 am | Permalink

      @Everhopeful; The Speaker resigns his or her party affiliation upon becoming Speaker – Duh!

      As for why Speaker Bercow is still in post, because he was re elected in 2017, and most likely now has a very safe majority should some in the Tory party try and sack him like they dis Speaker Martin.

      “The Civil Contingencies Act 2004….a nasty bit of Labour legislation but it sounds pretty powerful.”

      Not nasty at all, and quite limited, the replaced 1948 Act (and used by Ted Heath in early 1972 and again in 1974) was far worse as it wasn’t time & scope limited. There would be no legal grounds on which to use the said 2004 Act.

      “Utterly devastating.”

      Yes, the extent to which some Brexiteers have a disdain for the very democracy they wished to see returned to the UK, the more you bleat the less likely that support for Brexit will be retained, cut the snide cr*p for goodness sake.

      • NickC
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

        Jerry, The democratically elected HoC (elected by the people, because the people are sovereign) can only work with a neutral Speaker. John “bollocks to Brexit” Bercow isn’t. Just because Bercow is on the Remain side doesn’t make it right. It is you that disdains the very democracy you claim to approve. The more you bleat the less likely that support for Remain will be retained; cut the snide crap for goodness sake.

    • Mark B
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

      unless this is all play acting

      The one thing the EU loves, is a drama. “24 Hours to save the EURO !” etc.

      😉

      • hefner
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

        You win the funniest post of the day at 14:53. Don’t you ever have a look at the front pages of the tabloids ….

        • Edward2
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

          Gosh Hefner, you read the tabloids?
          You seem so intellectual.

          • hefner
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

            Indeed, what do you think? I usually go every morning to my preferred coffee shop and read (a bit, I saturate quickly) the tabloids put there on display by the shop staff for the enjoyment of the customers. Otherwise we are still lucky enough to have a public library (the Wokingham Council has not yet succeeded to close it) but no coffee is available …

          • Edward2
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

            Glad to hear you are keeping in touch with the rest of us

  30. steadyeddie
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Sensible moderate conservatives have the whip removed, I think this tells us everything we need to know about the current party and its leadership.

    • Pete S
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:48 am | Permalink

      Those ‘sensible moderate conservatives’; have made the prospect of a Marxist gov, very possible.

      • steadyeddie
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

        up to the voters

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

          Well, obviously not, because they were voted for by Tory voters who got an MP who supports Corbyn.

    • jerry
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      Indeed, and now even the PM’s brother has had enough….

      • Bob
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

        Yes, Boris sibling seems not to understand how negotiation works.
        You never take “no deal” off of the table.

      • Fred H
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

        always in his brother’s shadow…….poor Jo seizing a few minutes of ‘fame’.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

        jerry

        What is it that thinks shared DNA means that everyone has the same political view?

        Hilary Benn at odds with his Dad , Soames at odds with his Grandad , Piers Corbyn at odds with his brother, Jo & Rachel but not max at odds with Boris

        So what?

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

          Soames absolutely concurs with his grandfather.

          “Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.”
          Winston Churchill, 1942

          “We must build a kind of United States of Europe.. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.”
          Winston Churchill, 1946

          “Britain will have to play her full part as a member of the European family.”
          Churchill, May 1947, speaking at Albert Hall as Chairman and Founder of the United Europe Movement

          “We cannot aim at anything less than the Union of Europe as a whole, and we look forward with confidence to the day when that Union will be achieved….We aim at the eventual participation of all the peoples throughout the continent whose society and way of life are in accord with the [European] Charter of Human Rights.”
          Churchill, May 1948, speech to Council of Europe in Holland.

          It is the pusillanimous Leavers, who betray that legacy.

          Reply Why do you leave out the quotes that show the UK would not of course be part of a United States of Europe in his view. Read His history of the English speaking peoplEs which envisaged us in union with the USA, Australia etc.

          • margaret howard
            Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

            Reply to reply

            That’s because he was half American. And we ditched the Australians overnight when we joined the EU. They were furious but then went on looking for trade elsewhere.

            But we are EUROPEANS, not Americans or Australians. Most Americans find it hard to find Europe on a map, let alone Britain. I believe even Trump has difficulty in that department.

        • jerry
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

          @Walter; So what indeed, your point is thus utterly irrelevant, or should people skirt around the fact that Boris has a brother who is also (for now) MP too?

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

      Sensible? Moderate? People who have in the past used all manner of mechanisms to stop Brexit and to hell with what the 17.4 million people voted for.

      You’ll be telling us next that the EU is democratic.

      • jerry
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

        @Tad Davison; No one has stopped Brexit, stop sowing miss information, all that has happened is another (possible [1]) extension. Of course if we held a referendum asking the people when the UK should leave the “European Union” that would be an instruction to the HoC, as good as set in stone.

        [1] that is by no mean, necessarily, acceptable to the EC or the EU27 anyway, if so we will still leave on 31st Oct 2019

        • Tad Davison
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

          One extension, then another, then another, until the referendum is just a dim and distant memory. I’d say that was obfuscation, and as with justice, Brexit delayed is Brexit denied (and who’s this wench you speak of – miss information?)

  31. Simeon
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    If this Parliament were to fail to agree on any course of action going forward it would indeed be useless. But I don’t see this as being the case. Legislation is in the process of being passed. It will undoubtedly he acceptable. It appears that the Government will refuse to recognise this legislation. Therefore, some time between now and October 31st this government will fall and a new one replace it, whose purpose is to implement this legislation. This Parliament might be all sorts of things, but it isn’t useless.

    The question outstanding is whether what follows is a GE or referendum. Corbyn will want the former, and so, given he is disliked and distrusted about as much as Boris Johnson, I think it’ll be a referendum. In summary, Parliament is in the process of recognising its profound inability to make a decision and, as per our constitution, will therefore pass the matter back to the people.

    Yes, Parliament should have decided, and Parliament in some ways certainly seemed to have decided. But ultimately it hasn’t. This is certainly controversial; promises have been broken. The next step however is clear and entirely uncontroversial. The people will have to decide.

  32. Caterpillar
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    We have to face the reality that we do not live in a democracy and can do nothing about. Those who want democracy are distant from London (Brussels and Strasbourg), distant from power, and often struggling to survive. The privileged Remain supporters often have the location, wealth, power and heartlessness to put the democratic down.

    There is no democracy, it is lost for good, all many of us can do is to battle to survive and live with this nasty Remain Mon dictatorship establishment.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

      Majority of country voted for Brexit – no Brexit
      Majority of MPs voted for GE – no GE
      Majority of Conservative members voted for their new leader but 21 MPs go against Govt (if the whip is returned it shows the Conservatives has also given up.on xemocracy).
      Buckingham electorate votes don’t count at all, they are disenfranchised but their ‘representative’ becomes strongest person in land.

      We should not go on with the pretence of democracy we must be honest and tell it like it is – UK is not a democracy. If you are not a member of Remain-Establishment Party then you are worthless. There is only one party it is the EU party.

    • Mark B
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      And that is why the EU does not allow countries like Switzerland, with their direct democracy, to join.

      • Andy
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

        Switzerland would be allowed to join. It chose not to. Which is why it has a hard customs border with the EU.

        However it did join Schengen – so allows free movement of people. And it participated in many aspects of the single market – meaning it has to accept EU rules while having no say. Remember Daniel Hannan wanted us to be like Switzerland once? I think this was before someone explained it to him. He also wanted to be like Norway as well – before someone explained that to him. And I’m told that, among leading Brexiteers, Hannan is one of the bright ones!

      • hefner
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

        Wrong, Switzerland does not want to ‘join’ the EU.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

        @Mark B: Spreading fake news my friend?
        Switzerland submitted an application for accession to the EU on 20 May 1992. However, after a Swiss referendum held on 6 December 1992 rejected EEA membership by 50.3% to 49.7%, the Swiss government decided to suspend negotiations for EU membership until further notice. These did not resume and in 2016, Switzerland formally withdrew its application for EU membership

        • Mark B
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

          PvL

          Not fake news but fact. You cannot be a member of the EU if you are using Direct Democracy. That is why they have never joined.

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

          PvL, Well, I don’t believe for one minute that Swiss direct democracy would be allowed within the EU. Apart from anything else, much of what the Swiss can currently vote upon is under the direct control of Brussels within your undemocratic EU empire. I guess you would allow them to vote on the colour of their lamp posts though?

    • roger
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

      democracy may now be lost, but not for good.
      Just as in our natural world life always finds a way, so democracy reasserts itself one way or another; we just have to look throughout history to establish that as true.
      Whether that way is the burning torch of freedom backed up with wrought iron, or a gentle evolution towards the light, who can tell?
      They have opened Pandora’s box careless of the possible immediate consequences and the future means of government.
      Fertile ground and ideal conditions for Marxism to thrive.

  33. RichardM
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    You and your sycophantic followers on here should go back an re-read your own manifesto. Those expelled have followed it and voted for a smooth and orderly brexit, which your leader has no intention of honouring.

    • julie williams
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      “No deal is better than a bad deal”.

    • Sam Duncan
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

      “We continue to believe that no deal is better than a bad deal” (page 36).

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

      The manifesto states:-

      “We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible – so both sides benefit. We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.”

      1) Negotiations have been orderly
      2) Minimising disruption and maximising certainty would imply preparing to leave on a specific date. There would then not be the uncertainty of perpetual extensions, in perpetuity backstop and law taking during the transition.
      3) Future partnership should be agreed in parallel – this implicitly defines a good deal (and of course more uncertainty in not knowing what it is). The WA did not do this, it is a bad deal by definition.

      To be consistent with manifesto Conservatives should have prepared to leave after 2 years and if not with future partnership agreed it should have been with so called no deal.

      ps I don’t agree with much other Conservative policy at the moment (though also not other parties’), I don’t agree with much of Dr Redwood’s economics. I do though agree with a democratic referendum and that the manifesto was clear on the above.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

      Looks like you’re having a bit of local difficulty with the term, ‘let the people decide if they want to remain in, or leave the EU’.

      Just to recap, the people voted to leave. Those you cite had no intention of ever allowing the UK to leave the EU in an orderly fashion, just to delay and obfuscate. You seem to have it the wrong way round. It is Mr Johnson who wants to take us out, cleanly and expeditiously.

    • NickC
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

      RichardM, An “orderly” Brexit is the weasel word for a non-Brexit where the UK remains under the control of the EU.

  34. APL
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    JR: “A useless Parliament”

    Agreed.

    Sean Gabb has suggested Boris Johnson should invoke the Blairite civil contingencies act, then with the powers vested in the government by the act, revoke the Fixed Term Parliament act – that was just a sop, a shameful boondoggle for the Lib-dems anyway, then call a general election.

    Assuming the Tories comfortably win the election, they might set about repealing the CCA and all the other Blairite legislative abominations too.

    Doing so, might have a chastening effect on Parliament, which may not be so recklessly ready to pass into law, anything that the executive puts on its plate.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

      Interesting theory, and one to conjure with. This is truly a battle between an authoritarian parliament and the people it is supposed to serve. Parliament is out of control and something needs to be done.

  35. David J
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Parliament is truly broken and incapable of making a positive decision. It can only wield negative blocking power.
    There is good news here though. Once the bubble bursts and the people are asked to make their choice, they will remember the machinations and connivances to frustrate the referendum result. Brexit will come to pass. It just a matter of time but the people will get there way

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

      Fingers crossed! These politicians have had it their own way for far too long.

      The clue for me came on a fairly regular basis when I used to go to Westminster. At election time, MPs were obliging and accommodating. At other times, those same MPs were arrogant and aloof, and talked down to people. It was almost as if they were contemptuous of those they considered beneath them. They completely forgot they were public servants. I once wound the arrogant K. Clarke up by reminding him that he had millions of bosses and I was one of them so he ought to listen!

      And now we see it writ large! Utter contempt for the wishes of the people and the decision they arrived at democratically. Very often the only thing to do with something that is badly broken, is to scrap it and fit new parts.

  36. Iain Gill
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Wasn’t impressed with the chancellor’s statement, handing more money to the mod and NHS when both waste spectacular amounts is simply not good enough. Politicians bailing out useless civil servants who should be sacked.

    • John Archer
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

      Every sailor shall have a rainbow-coloured iPod and every hospital ward a diversity committee of 27. No SWMs though — they are the oppressors™.

  37. Iain Gill
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    Can we make sure the speaker is replaced.

    • JoolsB
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

      Seconded.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

      Wish I knew how Iain! I’d be off to Westminster to talk to some people I know.

  38. GilesB
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Why did the bill not need Queen’s consent as it clearly effects Royal Prerogative?

    • Andy
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      Personally I believe it did require Royal Consent because it quite clearly impinges on the Prerogative. Secondly it entails vast amounts of Public Expenditure so required a Money Resolution. It shows how badly things have deteriorated when these basic norms are not observed. The Remainiacs really are fanatics.

    • julie williams
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      Because the Speaker, Bercow, wouldn’t understand the word “impartial” if it was tattooed on his forehead .
      With any other Speaker, carrying their duties out correctly, a lot of this three-year farce would never have happened.
      The tories have tried to remove him several times but he has survived courtesy to the support of opposition parties; enough said.
      Just another reform that’s got to happen, sad really, because our quaint old democracy has held up pretty well in the past but now it’s expired.

  39. tim
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    the Traitors have handed us over to Germany! We are a vassel state! I wish we had let them have Europe in 1914 then my grandparents could have lived and had a real family life.

  40. oldtimer
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    This Parliament is indeed unfit for purpose. It is only capable of negative outcomes. A general election is needed to produce a new parliament. The outcome of a GE in current circumstances is more unpredictable than usual. As a committed leaver I will vote for the party that seems best placed to deliver Brexit. At least my current MP, Mr Grieve, will not be standing as a Conservative having lost the whip. It will be a toss up between whoever succeeds him as Tory candidate and a Brexit party candidate.

    • James Bertram
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      Oldtimer – I can see the Conservative Party not contesting that seat in a pact with the Brexit Party.
      Likewise, we are now rid of Anne Milton at Guildford.
      I have now volunteered to deliver ‘The Brexiteer’ locally and will be voting for the Brexit Party.

      • DaveK
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

        James, would it not be better to replace the “rebel” MP in what are probably majority conservative seats with a Conservative who agrees with Brexit rather than attempting to “foist” a TBP candidate? They could then have an agreement to support a TBP candidate in an area less likely to vote Conservative but who are strongly for leaving such as some constituencies up in the North who are unlikely to vote Conservative.

      • Andy
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

        You are delivering The Brexiteer in Remain voting Guildford?

        I am looking forward to having canvassers from the Brexit Party knocking on my door. I will get my children to ask them difficult questions for them – about policies. Seeing that they don’t have any.

        • NickC
          Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

          Andy, Are these your “children” who don’t age? And how could your children ask sensible questions when you cannot even answer why the UK uniquely would fail to depart from the EU and be as successfully independent as New Zealand?

      • hefner
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

        OK, I will take it slowly. What about if there is no agreement between the CUP and TBP, and what you succeed to do if helping elect a Labour or LibDem MP?
        You might want to take your head out this fishbowl and read Simon Heffer ‘Dominic Cummings’s scorched-earth tactics could prove fatal for the Tories’.
        As long as Cummings is around an agreement between the CUP and the TBP is unlikely:
        “For Johnson’s supporters, hopes of a pact with the Brexit Party endure, despite the outright mistrust, put forcefully by Longworth {Brexit Party MEP and Chairman of the LeaveMeansLeave pressure group}, of Johnson and those around him. The Brexiters also ignore the reluctance by senior BP figures to contemplate any arrangement with a party whose strategy is controlled by Cummings. And they also ignore the assumption that Cummings would not tolerate a pact with TBP.”

    • Bob
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

      I said three years ago and many times since that Theresa May would fudge Brexit, and over the past year I have said that a GE is the only way forward in view of the appalling state of the legacy parties. The electorate need to have their say now that Parliament, the Speaker and the Lords have revealed their true natures.

  41. Tom Rogers
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    [quote]”A pro EU coalition did have the necessary votes to push through a fundamental constitutional bill effectively overturning the referendum result in just four hours yesterday.”[unquote]

    Very sorry but we’re tired of the excuses. I realise it’s not your fault, but you are a member of the political class and I’m afraid you will have to own this and take the consequences, along with the rest.

    The simple plain truth is that since the referendum result was announced, we have had no less than four different Conservative governments, led by three different prime ministers: Cameron, May (two governments) and now Johnson.

    Cameron or May could very easily have implemented the result of the referendum.
    They failed to do so for the simple reason that they did not want to do so. In that sense, they epitomised the political-bureaucratic class in this country.

    Johnson, too, could take us out on 31st. October. Very, very easily. He could have guaranteed this already by proroguing Parliament at the beginning of the new session until 1st. November. Instead, he gave the Remainers an opening to frustrate and sabotage Brexit, with the result that he has made things more difficult for himself.

    Why?

    You must know that unless we leave the EU on 31st. October, the Tory Party is finished forever, and I expect Labour will follow you into the dustbin of history soon after – a long overdue development, in my opinion. We need a new political culture in this country. To be blunt, we’re sick of all of you.

    We’re sick of plastic media, plastic politicians and their plastic promises. We’re sick of political correctness. We’re sick of the lies, the needless wars and interventions abroad, the self-righteousness. We’re sick of being told that the gaslighting and the bullying and being told that we, the white British, are ‘guilty’ of various crimes against other people and that we must welcome the whole world here. (Words left out ed) – which is completely ridiculous. All we want is to act in our own interests – the most natural thing in the world.

    And Brexit is just the beginning. We will want action on mass immigration (end it forever and mass deport), foreign policy (leave NATO, no more unnecessary wars), the BBC (abolish it), foreign aid (end it), academic education (back to rigour and standards), technical/vocational education (restore apprenticeships), and so on.

    We want a country that serves the interests of its own people. Brexit is the crucible of a necessary Counter Transformation.

  42. DaveM
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Now we can see what a Lab/Lib/SNP govt would look like – laws forced through without proper debate and total subservience to a foreign unelected bureaucracy. GE can’t come quick enough – but you’d better all make friends with Nigel.

  43. Woody
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    It is sad beyond belief that parliament has acted in such a self serving anti democratic way. If these people who voted against leaving as the people wished, and that is what they have done by voting the way they did, thought that they won something yesterday then lets wait until the chickens come home to roost and a GE is eventually held … there is real anger out here and its aimed at those who have refused to return to the people through a general election and also have refused to listen to the democratic choice of the People through the referendum but cow tow to a foreign power .. and that is what the eu is and that is what they are doing. I support Johnson totally in his stance.

  44. Cornishstu
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    I have one question, why has the myth of deal and no deal not been dispelled for what it is, another excuse to overturn the referendum result?

    • Bob
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

      “why has the myth of deal and no deal not been dispelled for what it is, another excuse to overturn the referendum result?”

      Because it’s the main ploy of the Remainer Parliament and MSM to delay and eventually terminate Brexit.

      You’d be surprised how many people think that “no deal” means no trade. Our country has become quite dumbed down.

    • Mark B
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

      Because it suits their purpose. They need to make us think that this is somehow linked to trade and jobs.It’s part of Project Fear. Same too with, ‘Crashing Out !’ The language is emotive and is designed to mask their true intention and that is not to respect the referendum result and Remain in the EU. All these 2016 Remain MP’s suddenly cannot all be ardent Leavers over knight ? The really sick thing though, is that they are showing faux concern for our welfare when in truth it is anything but. Such mendacity.

  45. Know-Dice
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    Yes this Parliament is useless, but that is because the previous occupant of Number 10 threw away a 20 point lead in the 2017 General Election by alienating her core Conservative voters.

    Boris knew that he was taking on a “poison chalice” and hopefully we are not at the end phase of his and Mr Cummings strategy yet.

    I must say that the quality of the debating of the last two days has been appalling, typically an MP from Birmingham who said she “Would not vote for ANY bill put forwards by the Prime Minister”.

    Hopeless completely hopeless…

  46. Everhopeful
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    Boris, if serious (?) must put his best foot forward and do whatever it takes.
    (What is happening now really feels like a rerun of Mrs M).
    A rag taggle coalition of Corbyn and whoever else will not be like a Wilson govt. This country would be laid waste within a week.
    From where I’m sitting the situation looks terrifying.
    Pandering to some liberal ( radical?) parliamentary thread has gone on for too long.
    The nettle must be grasped before it is too late.
    Remoaners are breaking the rules left right and centre…why can’t the leavers? ( Assuming they want to leave).
    The party of “well we might leave…if the opposition let us “ is at least in “ power” and they do apparently have a “ leave” PM. That should count for something…surely?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:13 am | Permalink

      The Lords did NOT delay the bill.
      It will be passed by Friday.
      So that’s it Then? Over? No Brexit?

      • steve
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

        Everhopeful

        No it isn’t over, far from it.

        Boris will not ask the EU for extension.

        There WILL be a general election very soon, and vandal Corbyn will be burnt toast.

        We still have good men like Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees Mogg et al.

        And…….Mr Farage has yet to have his day.

        It is absolutely not over. Besides Corbyn made a fatal mistake in the HoC during last night’s coup, which was to run away like a coward after having committed arson on democracy. That tells the electorate he is not accountable for his actions. He’s finished at the next election and he knows it.

        Look on the bright side; if all else fails there’s always etc ed

  47. Kevin
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    There does not appear to be any way of preventing this Parliament from taking
    over completely. How can a new general election be forced, if this Parliament
    may rush through any new legislation on any subject at any time? How can
    members of Parliament be made to give up their seats if they refuse? Why,
    you could have a Primogeniture Act that secures their firstborn as successors.

  48. Fred H
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Remain MPs have now managed to make themselves a protected species. Fearful of the people throwing them out because they defy the will of the Ref, they conspire to cling to their sinecure by fingernails. These latest devious tactics can only last for a period of time until the electorate finally has its say. Would be MPs prepare yourself for election for there are going to be a huge number of positions available.
    Parliament is now a disgrace, not equalled in anybody’s living memeory. The EU although happy with the delay must be open-mouthed at what the UK so-called democracy is dishing up.

  49. Christine
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    I am sure I am not alone in being completely bewildered by the shenanigans going on in both Houses. It is truly shocking and not something I ever expected to witness in my lifetime. I simply cannot imagine how the PM can proceed now. Our democracy is being dangerously undermined and we can only watch and wait in the hope that this lunacy is brought to an end. But by whom? I have no idea.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

      ‘Our democracy is being dangerously undermined…’

      Remainers have been at it for years Christine. They were hoping the referendum had gone in their favour, then they could claim legitimacy.

      Alas, since the referendum, they’ve had to rely heavily upon deceit and subterfuge in the hope they would confuse us, the enemy of their ultimate objective, to subsume this nation and remove its identity in perpetuity. That’s the name of their game!

  50. Peter
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    So Johnson has given up on the filibuster to prevent the No Deal blocking legislation.

    That does little for his chances in General Election if and when Labour decide to allow one.

  51. Andrew S
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    If the 21 expelled tory brexit traitors are let back in, then I would expect say goodbye to winning the next general election. Let’s not forget, over 200 tory mps allowed the lamentable May to stay on as PM, leading to delay at 29 March, contrary to pledges given.
    Rudd is going anyway, a hated figure by brexiteers.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

      The Tories still need to do something about a selection process that allows these pro-EU liberals to become candidates in the first place. They’re just grey character-less Majoresque clones for the most part, although some of the new Brexiteers it must be said, are truly excellent.

      The modern Tory party is totally unrecognisable from the formidable political heavyweight it once was, and indeed should have been all along – it is far from the ‘natural party of government’. There is now a chance to change all that for the better and get some really good people in to fill the void left by the rubbish they have at long last got rid of!

  52. MickN
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Wow! Have the remoaners been up all night with their fingers hovering ?
    Only way to go now is to give the Brexit Party free rein in the areas that will never vote Tory and I’m sure they will stand aside where Tory brexiteers stand.
    a 60 seat majority will see the votes of the people respected and not trodden into the ground.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

      Absolutely!

  53. Ian Wragg
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Yesterday Stephen Barclay replied to your ConHome letter. He only answered half the questions and appeared to justify the WA as a serious political route out of the EU.
    He still approved of a transition period when we are still full members al be it without a vote.
    This gives the impression that Boris is seriously considering this route.
    The Brexit Party is ecstatic with the shenanigans of Westminster which improves their position daily.

  54. Jiminyjim
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    A General Election cannot be resisted by this despicable parliament for ever. And when it comes, the people’s full disgust at the shameful behaviour of those seeking to overturn the Leave vote will be felt in all its fury. In the meantime, however, there is talk of allowing those expelled from the party to return. I hope your government, Sir John, grasps that reversing that totally justifiable decision would be instantly fatal to your election prospects. We’re watching.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

      Spot on!

  55. A.Sedgwick
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Careful what you wish for Remoaners, BJ pointed out that Corbyn’s friends are in the Kremlin, Caracas etc so good bye to USA protection, good bye to Nato, good bye to the RN and shipbuilding, good bye to the safe passage of oil by sea but then the Russian pipelines all over the EU will safeguard our economies.

  56. Stephen Reay
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Game over for Brexit without a deal. Even if the Cons win the election, no deal will be blocked again. You’ve just got to know when you are beaten.

    • Shirley
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:20 am | Permalink

      You’re wrong. The Remainers will not be re-elected (except maybe a few from Remain voting constituencies) , and we will have a democratic Parliament, for the first time in 40+ years. Remember, 2/3rds of constituencies voted Leave. That’s why Remainer MP’s are afraid of a GE.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

        Hear hear!

  57. Annette
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    A sensible Parliament would chose to bring down the Govt and force a GE, letting the people confirm who they wished to act in their & the country’s interests.
    Did they do this? No. A rogue Parliament, aided & abetted by a partisan speaker abusing our Constitution for foreign aims, seized power from the Govt and KEPT IT FOR THEMSELVES, to force through legislation to deny the democratic mandate of the referendum & against the very promises that many made in order to be elected all on behalf of, and in collusion with, a foreign power. Having usurped power, they have refused to let the people have a voice in their actions via a GE. That is a coup. It is contempt of democracy. It is contempt of the majority 17.4m people who voted to leave the EU. It is contempt of the majority of constituencies that voted to leave. It is even contempt of the majority of ‘EU constituencies’/regions that voted to leave. They are a disgrace & they need to face the consequences of acting for a foreign
    Yet, they want a ‘people’s vote’ whilst at least 2 parties have said that they will only accept a ‘remain’ answer, despite this option being discounted in the referendum that has still to be implemented. Of course, this means that these EU collaborators wouldn’t have to face the electorate that they lied to & can keep troughing and colluding. They seem strangely reticent to put their treachery to the test, whilst claiming that everyone has changed their mind. Funny that…

  58. Ian!
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Who is now responsible for this new bill going forward, certainly not the Government. I suppose everyone else will say not ‘me gov!’

    I note a lot of people now arriving on this board are implying there is a Deal somewhere that permits the UK to become an independently governed country outside of the EU. Certainly the EU and their servants in the UK Parliament wont permit that. Mrs May’s WA/Treaty doesn’t permit that. So where is this idea coming from?

    So far the only agreement is for the UK to be governed by the EU and if you thought it was about democracy, as Jean-Claude Juncker the UK’s law maker has said(sic) ‘there is no place for democracy in the EU’.

  59. piglet
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    We have arrived at a situation where the Opposition is the de facto Government. The PM is now the puppet of the Opposition.

    This is obviously not how our constitution is supposed to work. The link between the people and their elected government has been broken and our democracy has been hijacked. This has come about as an unforeseen consequence of the FTPA (showing that the Act was not adequately scrutinised) and the reckless and appallingly biased behaviour of the Speaker.

    It is ironic that Johnson’s quite constitutional prorogation was described by some as “a coup” : the real coup is what we witnessed last night.

    The people have lost their right to be governed by the party they voted for, and the Opposition are denying them the opportunity to endorse this hijack of the legislature with a General Election. This really is a coup. The PM must advise the Queen not to give Royal Assent to this bill.

  60. Lucy
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    What a bunch! MPs are no longer representing their constituents. You are playing games, waving dicks, point-scoring, spineless creatures. If the Leader of the House lies down on the job, showing no respect for the House of Commons or for his fellow MPs, needing only a dummy to help him cope, why should anyone respect any of you? WE deserve better.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

      ‘If the Leader of the House lies down on the job’.

      Cheap shot Lucy. Reclined is perhaps more apt, but there’s nowt quite like making things sound worse than they really are to stretch a point and give it an inordinate and disproportionate amount of weight. He was fully awake and attentive.

      • hefner
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

        Tad, No point in trying to use long words to shut up people. JR-M was a disgrace in both his body behaviour in Parliament and again in using his parliamentary status to slander Dr David Nicholl. Or are you one of his pals?

  61. Leaver
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    I do not agree that Brexiteer MPs should be kicked out of the party for not voting for Boris’s future deal.

    The PM cannot just kick out all MPs who disagree with his Brexit plans.

    The conservative party has always been a broad church. It is becoming a narrow one.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

      They stood on a Conservative manifesto, that was plain about the policy on leaving the EU.
      These MPs, like my local MP, sent out election leaflets saying they agreed.
      Then once elected they have done their best to stop the process of leaving the EU.
      Even voting against their own Government on a three line whip.
      They could have abstained
      They could gave stood as independents or even joined another pro EU party.

    • Bob
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

      @Leaver
      The desperate lengths Remainers go to in order to change the narrative speak volumes for their character.
      Change your moniker, you’re not fooling anyone but yourself.

    • Oggy
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      See Ian’s answer below for a clue.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

      You can have one ideology at one extreme, and a totally different ideology at the other. The two are mutually exclusive and incompatible. You cannot have a party that is all-encompassing and includes both, so where does one draw the line?

      Personally, I would say it is very difficult for true patriots (Brexiteers) to live alongside those who seek to sell this nation out (remainers), and so it has been in the Conservative party for the past 50 years. At long last, we now have someone who not only seems to recognise that fact, but also sees it in terms of right and wrong, good and bad, ethical and unethical, and who is prepared to nail his colours to the mast to get it sorted.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

      broad church ? – have you lost your memory? The party has always had extreme views at each end of politics yet a sufficient majority allowed tolerance. Now that a recent PM behaved disgracefully, you might remember her name, defying the will of the people and a new PM sets out his stall to ensure the people’s view is carried out, a section of that ‘broad church’ has to suffer excommunication.

  62. Ian!
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Confused! If you lie to get elected, so elected under false pretenses. If you vote against the promise you made to your electorate. If you go against your Parties Polices and Manifesto pledges. Is it a surprise when you party says they don’t want you anymore.

    These are not even repentant sinners, they are not asking permission from their electorate. They are not saying we will support our party. But some are pushing for them to be let back in. That diminishes the integrity of the whole of Parliament. If lies are accepted as the norm and Parliament rewards lies what is the point of Parliment

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

      Absolutely bang on Ian!

  63. Fred H
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    170 current MPs had less than 10% majority in their constituency. With Corbyn’s cronies ousting honourable Labour members from various offices, and Boris struggling to cope without some alliance with Farage, the ritual slaughter of MPs at the ballot box must be building to a wipe with a disinfectant that reaches the parts others cannot.

  64. Mick
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Now Mr Johnson is removing the whips from the turncoats in is party even though it as left the conservatives without a majority in Parliament then Brussels will be sitting up now knowing full well they are dealing with a man who is not a push over like Mrs May and Mr Cameron were, and will I think be thinking hang on here unless we give Mr Johnson a deal which is acceptable to Westminster he will leave with no deal some how

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

      I sincerely hope you’re right Mick! And you could well be. I have said all along that all it would take is somebody with the balls to take the fight to the enemy to get a good deal.

  65. Jack Falstaff
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Jeremy Corbyn’s only consistent policy thusfar has been to get elected and on all other issues he has chopped and changed according to whether the gallery make the right noises or not.
    Given that this is most certainly the case, how can he explain to us his grounds for shying away from an election at this moment in time?
    He is a negative, unprincipled opportunist whose days are surely numbered.

  66. Tabulazero
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    A useless Conservative party under the thrall of the Brexiters such as John Redwood.

    The Conservative party has abandoned its one-nation values and has now been hijacked by a far-right elite that had just purged 21 of its number for doing something that many in the cabinet have done repeatedly with impunity.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

      That is a very odd view considering that it is pro remain Conservatives that have taken control of Parliament with opposition parties.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

      Tabulazero

      With analysis like that its no wonder you want some geriatric Belgians to run your life for you

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

      The term ‘one nation’ was hijacked by people who were in fact ‘no-nation’. They would give away our sovereignty to a foreign political entity. Glad to see the back of such people. Hopefully, a General Election would see the rest de-selected and banished too.

  67. Alec
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    I’d say describing this parliament as useless is being generous far beyond what it deserves. The Remainer MP’s have demonstrated their total lack of ethics and morality. They have behaved in the most appalling manner and in my view they have crossed the line of treason. I say this because they have, as you say, gone against the expressed wishes of the electorate to conspire with foreign officials to render the United Kingdom at the mercy, financially and legally, of an administration that has never been voted for by the British electorate. I appreciate that the law of the land will never be used by the elite against it’s own, that’s only for us little people, but it should be. Personally I loathe and detest the corruption, lies, and total lack of conscience displayed by politicians generally but this is below even their usual depths.

  68. RAF
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    Perhaps someone could explain why, if the Remain faction can seize control of the business of Parliament, they did not pass a law to force the PM to revoke Article 50?
    Is it not possible or are they frightened that such a move would confirm their desire to stop Brexit, despite their waffle to the contrary?
    Their posing as democrats is disingenuous, they are Brussels Eurocrats. Brussels, the city where democracy went to die.

    • Peter
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

      John Redwood talk of a “Remain faction” when referring to those who oppose no-deal is a little misleading. I don’t know whether he did this intentionally or if it was an accident.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

      At least we’ve forced the maggots out of the rotting carcass this time so we know who these people are and can vote against them next time. And I think Labour is in trouble in a significant number of working-class areas.

  69. Alison M
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    Is there nothing we can do legally about these remainer MPs trashing our constitution?
    They gave us a referendum and said they would respect it then spent the next three years undermining it. The remainers in the Conservative party kept Theresa May in office long enough for her negotiate a surrender treaty with the EU. Then when she started surrendering to Jeremy Corbyn they finally stopped her. Then when the majority of Conservative MPs and members voted for someone with gumption the 21 surrender monkeys in the Conservative party surrendered again to the EU.
    Despite saying they want a people’s vote none of the MPs will let their constituents vote on what they plan to do. The people are sovereign not Parliament this is the true coup against the people. Anything this Parliament agrees to on our behalf is surely not binding on the people.
    This can not continue, the FTPA must be repealed, the Speaker must be held accountable for trashing the constitution, postal voting should be reformed, any MP who loses the whip or changes party should have to have a bye election.
    If MPs are not accountable to their electorate they become dictators.

  70. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Can I urge everyone to read Ian Blands comments on yesterdays post please. It has been posted close to the end of the comments but really sums up our situation now which is intolerable.

    • Mark B
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      Cheers and done.

      Many thanks, Ian and well said.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      Fed up
      Duly read!
      Totally agree.
      That post should be published.
      Enough of this caving in to liberal/ radical ( I would annoy JR if I called it by the M word) misbehaviour.

    • Chris
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:59 am | Permalink

      Agreed, Fedup. I understand that it is possible for Boris to ignore the Bill. There will be uproar, but there will be anyway, and at least there will be huge numbers applauding Boris for standing firm. There is no doubt he could win a good majority if only he would stand firm, and also make an electoral pact with Nigel Farage. That is the only way that people might trust him, as at present there are many who simply do not trust Boris enough to give him their full support.

  71. David Taylor
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Not being an expert on Parliament , I can only suggest the following is now plain to see.
    A majority of M.Ps , formed from most of the parties , have rejected the EU deal as negotiated by Mrs May .
    The EU , after 2 years of arguing and stalemate , will not make any compromise & alter the deal to make it palatable .
    It has seemed pointless to me , since this deal was presented to Britain as a fait accompli for any UK Prime Minister to propose any alterations to it .
    The present situation is horrible .
    A UK Government of any party with a majority and able to take decisive steps , one way or the other is the only solution .

  72. MPC
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    We are a vassal state currently and although we might hate it we’re getting used to it. If the Benn Act is fully ratified then the EU can do what it wants with us including ever more onerous terms for our current purgatory or adding such terms to the WA!

    How Mr Corbyn can live with himself for selling his soul we’lI never know. Every time he speaks now it looks as though he doesn’t believe what he’s advocating.

  73. BCL
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    The remainers in Parliament simply will not abide by the people’s decision. They talk of avoiding no deal but they obviously intend to avoid brexit altogether. I am very pleased that those Conservative MP’s, who have reneged on the manifesto on which they were all elected, have been kicked out and I hope that their constituencies will select either brexiteers or at least candidates who will honour the referendum result and the forthcoming manifesto. If it is true that some of those who drafted the Corbyn Surrender Bill took advice from EU officials, then they are a disgrace and I regard their actions as treasonous. I hope it will be possible for sensible arrangements to be made with the Brexit Party to ensure we do not get a Corbyn government and we do get a proper Brexit.

  74. Malcolm White
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    It’s interesting to note that the individuals wresting legislative control from the Government to thwart Brexit by 327 to 299 votes find this OK. Yet they cannot accept that the simple mandate given to parliament by the people to Leave the EU is by the same percentage – 52% to 48%. Their’s is not the protection of democracy. Their’s is quite the opposite.

  75. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    I’m not sure there is anything more I can do on this which will be of any value. For three years I repeatedly warned here and elsewhere that we were losing the propaganda war but nobody who could do anything about it ever paid any attention and the fifth columnists in Parliament and the government and the civil service have not only been free to spread their false narrative but have been allowed to misuse public resources to that end.

    • Chris
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:53 am | Permalink

      Exactly, and the Remainers were allowed to dig in and cement their WA/PD “Brexit”, which represented a complete capitulation to Brussels. Tory MPs seemed not to heed warnings, they would not rebut scare stories from Remain, and they would not take the radical action required to remove May until far too late. They did not, in my view, put country before Party and staying in power, and this is the result.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

      Denis,

      I appreciate your sound and timely attempts to warn everyone and I want to say so, but with your remainer MP in such a high political office, any attempt to put it right was futile because firstly, she was complicit in it, and secondly, she hadn’t the courage to act decisively even if she hadn’t been. Some might argue that the move would be a step too far, but personally, I would get rid of May too. John Major in a skirt!

      It is often hard to make people sit up and take notice until their backs are against the wall, but that is the very thing that has changed, and there are certainly more enlightened people around than ever there was, which is why we hear so many remainer callers to radio stations say, they are democrats and now just want the government to get on with Brexit.

  76. Alan Joyce
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    A TV programme the other night on Channel 5, hosted by Jeremy Paxman, asked the question ‘Why Are Our Politicians So Crap?’ Well, the answers were there for all to see yesterday in the House of Commons.

    I do not think there are words in the English language capable of conveying the strength of feelings of contempt and disgust that I imagine many citizens of the UK have for them.

    Now we are even denied a general election as the only way to sort out the mess they have made because of their great foresight in creating the Fixed Term Parliament Act. Incredibly, Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition doesn’t want one because they know that voters know that they are crap.

    It is to the great credit of the people of this country that they continue to go about their daily lives whilst our useless politicians act out their little charades in this most useless of Parliaments.

    Sometimes, I look at the scenes in Hong Kong and wonder…..

    • julie williams
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:18 am | Permalink

      Completely agree although I think that MPs are avoiding the ballot box because they know what the electorate will do to them and if they think that we are going to forget, they are sadly mistaken.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

      Alan Joyce

      Absolutely spot on. Brexit once and for all has highlighted the low quality, childish, bot like behaviour of the political class.

      We need a reckoning , a review of our political system and to replace 90% of politicians with iDemocracy similar to Switzerland

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

      Agreed. I wish I’d seen it

  77. 'None of the above'.
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    Sir John,
    Is prorogation required to start on Monday 9th September or has the Queen approved prorogation to start “no earlier” than 9th?

    • JoolsB
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      Exactly what I was thinking. Bring it forward to today and end it on 1st November.

  78. Beecee
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    The Remain majority in Parliament has defied the instructions of the people expressed in the Referendum, votes cast for the Manifestos of the Conservatives and Labour Parties, and in the recent EU Elections for the Leave Parties.

    No-deal was their convenient hook.

    EU Quislings!

  79. Original Richard
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    We have witnessed a Speaker led coup by a remainer Parliament which, through the use of the FTPA, could be in power until 2022.

    The great danger is that during this time this remainer Parliament, which includes BTW over 250 Conservative MPs (277 voted for the WA at the third attempt) will now re-introduce and vote for the WA treaty where will be accepting EU laws, budgets, taxes, fines and policies (trade, energy, environment, foreign, immigration etc) but without representation or veto and with no lawful means of exit pretending this to be respecting the EU referendum result to leave the EU.

    A treaty where Mr. Macron described the UK position thus :

    “The UK will be trapped in a customs union after Brexit unless Downing Street offers European fishermen full access to British waters during the coming trade negotiations.”

    And which was described by Mr. Verhofstadt’s staff as reducing the UK to EU colony status.

  80. Pete S
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    An avenue never mentioned by those who want to suppress ‘no deal’. Is, how do you negotiate with a body that does not want to be anywhere near reasonable. the EU. President Hollande is on camera saying the UK must have a punishment beating for leaving. Plus the EU say the WA is a good deal, that tells you everything you need to know about a body offering that capitulation agreement.

    So all those out there, tell me how you get the EU to be reasonable, after 3 years I have NEVER heard one suggestion.

    • rose
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      They don’t want the EU to be reasonable. They want us to surrender. Anyone who doesn’t want us to surrender is happy without another treaty.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

        rose

        No, they want us out. Don’t you Brexiteers understand that? They can’t wait.

        There is not a single member country that hasn’t had enough of our constant whining and special opt out demands. They were sick and tired of us well before the referendum.

        • rose
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

          They haven’t had enough of our money or our market though, nor of the tariffs we collect for them on extraEU goods. They will never be sick and tired of the money or the market.

        • Lindsay McDougall
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 12:42 am | Permalink

          Good. So let’s just leave and everybody will be happy.

  81. wes
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    The EU machine wins again with the help of our own elite.
    Reads like a chapter from the book “Adults in the room”.
    Where we go from here is any-ones guess.

    • Pete S
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      One MP in the chamber , I think it was Nigel Evans, said that there were politicians in the house, working in collusion with the EU. I call that traitorous.

    • julie williams
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:21 am | Permalink

      Europeans should know by now never to underestimate the British people.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

        julie williams

        Which ones?

        And do you know much about them to feel the same?

        Arrogant presumption.

      • hefner
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

        JulieW, From my recent visits in Germany (July) and France (March, May, August), looking at some of their newspapers and websites, discussing with locals and British expats there, over a stay of more than five weeks in total, I am ‘afraid’ that some of their journalists are closely following the events here, are analysing (from the point of view of the EU27 interests) what is happening here in Britain on a daily basis. They are certainly not underestimating the Brits on these islands. Most of them (journalists and commentators) conclude we have all gone mad, and in the worst versions of their comments (lay people) cannot wait for us to f..k off. Be sure that the sentiments expressed by some of the usual hot-heads here are also shared on the other side.

        If one believes these daily/weekly papers and some more professional papers, the harbours, customs, transport infrastructures are ready or close to be ready by end of October, certainly so in France, NL and Germany. Furthermore companies in France having a sizeable trade with the UK have received this spring (so after the previous 31st March deadline) advices, even including for the 30% of French fishermen possibly directly affected (along the Pas-de-Calais, Normandy, and Brittany coasts) by the potential closure of UK waters, some promises of compensation taken from some ‘EU disaster funding’.

        They do not underestimate anything, know full well that the UK is leaving, and funnily enough (maybe not seen from here) roughly trust the EU Commission and the heads of state of the EU27 to do what is required to minimize as much as possible the impact of a no-deal Brexit on the continent (and the RoI).

        I find depressing that a similar level of preparation does not appear to be available here and that the Government, the MPs, and the public at large seem incapable to unite behind any reasonable solution.

        BTW, do you still have full confidence in the PM after his prestation in front of recruits in West Yorkshire?

    • graham1946
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

      Wes,

      Where we go from here is a GE, a majority for Boris with some seats for Brexit Party, lots of Remainers kicked out, yesterday’s shenanigans rubbed out and its back to Brexit business as usual. Trade deal offered to EU, if refused, out with no deal and 39 billion in our back pocket. Could all be done by Christmas.

  82. Chris
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    To revive flagging spirits, Rod Liddle is always worth reading:
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9865282/nigel-farage-brexit-party-tories-pact/
    ROD LIDDLE Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party and the Conservatives need to make a formal pact

    • JoolsB
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      A brilliant article and he is so right in everything he says. Boris was so right to take the whip from Hammond and co. but apparently there are now quite a lot of disgruntled Tory MPs who thought Boris was too harsh. Maybe they should join their EU loving comrades. What Hammond and co. have done is the worst sort of treachery because they have now given us the risk of leave England having a Marxist/SNP foist upon them against their will especially if the Tories don’t form a pact with the Brexit party. Nigel Farage has offered one and Boris has refused. Nigel says he will support the Tories but only if they have a clean break from the EU which makes me wonder if the plan all along is to bring back May’s appalling surrender treaty if they they can remove the backstop.

      John, what are your views on forming a pact with the Brexit party? The leave vote will walk it if you do.

  83. BillM
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Short of a Public uprising against Parliament a la Guido Fawkes, is there nothing that can be done to STOP THE ROT? It is hard to comprehend that in OUR democracy, the peoples vote count for nothing.
    We cannot be tied to the EU forever against our will.
    If we are to remain under the control then we must make plans to bring it down and get our democracy back where it belongs -with the British people.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

      Bill,

      Until such time as we are fully subsumed and forced to adopt the EU system of ‘government’, the only mechanism still open to us is the ballot box. When we place that cross on the ballot paper, we have to know whether the candidate is a leaver or remainer. I would print it by their names and do that by statute so we can make an informed choice.

      Further, any vote to the contrary once elected, would make that MP automatically subject to a recall. That would go some way towards stopping the b*st*rds consistently conning us.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

      It is not difficult to comprehend. We do not have a democracy and our votes count for nothing. We are continually told it is for our own good, the good of the country and since we are not capable of understanding it is better for experts to make the choices.

      Nothing peaceful can be done and as the oppressed are peaceful or just struggling to survive nothing will be done.

  84. Treacle
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    We can now see the foolishness of David Cameron’s Fixed-Term Parliaments Act. He took away the ability of the PM to call a general election if he/she found himself/herself unable to command a majority in the Commons. Whenever we finally have a new government with a majority, its first action must be to repeal the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act.

  85. Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    JR – is this an option for Boris, assuming that the dastardly bill is passed into law but not consented to by the Queen:

    Could he say that he needs legal advice on the bill, to delay it coming into force before the Queen’s speech?

  86. David Langley
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    I always thought that we voted for “Leave or Remain”. There was no mention in the question of no deal or a deal.
    The mandate was to leave, why as Juncker said to Nigel Farage “Why are you still here?”.
    It is leave first then sit down and discuss the future trading and supply agreements.
    We have taken into statute all rules and regs for trading by Statutory instruments and the EU has made similar provisions for interim trading plus we are both members of the WTO and follow their rules etc.
    Therefore no break in trading until we either fail to agree a deal or we unilaterally remove statutes and of course realise that there will or may be consequences.
    I am just a layman with no special expertise but this is how it seems to me to be the facts and the case.

  87. Mick
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_5509
    Not sure if I’m interpreting this right but it looks to me that Brussels will probably try and get us to extend till October 2020, needs someone abit more savvy than myself to read it

  88. James Matthews
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Parliament has voted to overrule a clear decision of the electorate. It has the really quite incredible chutzpah to call that “democracy” but acts to prevent an election which it knows the people and interests who voted in this way will lose. The vote requires a British Prime Minister to plead for an extension of EU membership which neither the Government nor the electorate want and to accept any terms the EU (a collection of foreign Governments) choose to offer. Thus bringing about an unprecedented humiliation not just for the Prime Minister and the Conservative Party, but for the nation as a whole.
    One Labour MP complains about the use of the term “traitors”. No lesser description is appropriate for the people who did this They should never be forgiven or forgotten and any deal that arises from it should be abrogated as soon as a self-respecting parliamentary majority returns.

    One further point. Presumably the government could refuse to submit the act of surrender to the queen for royal assent.. In that case the Remain response would surely have to be for parliament to seek to remove the Government from office. Could that be done without an election?

  89. wab
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Indeed it is a useless Parliament. This is what happens when most MPs, on all sides of politics, are willing to continually tell the country that the UK can have its cake and eat it too. The UK is a relative minnow in the world, in comparison with the major trade blocs of NAFTA, China, the EU. The idea that the UK could get better trade deals with the world’s major trading blocs, or even Japan, by being outside the EU rather than inside the EU, is risible. Unfortunately very few MPs actually have the integrity and courage to say this in public. Empire 2.0 is a joke. Unfortunately people like Johnson and Redwood will fail upwards into the House of Lords.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

      Canada and Japan have just signed a trade deal with the EU.
      No annual subscriptions, no legal supremacy, no open borders, no having to agree to every EU law, directive and regulation.
      Being in a trading group voluntarily or using WTO rules is very different to ending up being in a few more years just a region of the United States of Europe

  90. Peter
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    John, I agree that it’s very disappointing that it has come down to all this squabbling. Both sides of the argument effectively are coming from the same direction – that in two months’ time, irreparable damage is going to be done to this country, and it’s necessary to use all the tricks available to avoid that.

    But that’s where the similarities end. You say: “The Remain side claims anything the government does is undemocratic, yet pushes and shoves our constitution in ways designed to curtail debate and thwart the wishes of the majority in the referendum.”

    First off, you’re not strictly correct that they are all in support of Remain. They are just against a No-Deal Brexit. I feel that this is an important distinction.

    Secondly, they’re not trying to curtail debate in the long run! Quite the opposite. This is a countermeasure against those who are trying to block debate in the short term, so that this huge subject can be given the time and attention that it deserves.

    • cornishstu
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

      As has been said on here by myself and others the NO deal is a misnomer it is not a deal but a treaty to bind us. The EU have repeatedly stated they will not negotiate a deal until after we have left. Therefore, we cannot leave with a deal unless they capitulate. If those MPs cannot see this then they have no business being an MP. I believe it is just an excuse to repeatedly kick the can down the road to such time as they can get their desired result of remaining in the EU.

  91. Ian!
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Sir John

    Thankyou…

    Why should we sign up to so many things they want, before we have agreed some of the things we might want? Why have we dropped the mantra of “Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed?”.

  92. Phil_Richmond
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    The Remain traitors will never win. They have now massively pissed off the people and at some point will have to face us.
    If they do by some miracle win then the anger will spill over into violence.

    • steve
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      Phil

      Dead right.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

        Phil and steve

        Tin hats at the ready!

        • steve
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

          margaret howard

          I don’t think you will be insulting anybody when it does kick off. History repeats and you would be wise to remember that.

  93. Paul
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    JR, the title of your blog today has to be your best yet. Shambles. 321 MPs have demonstrated utter incompetence, contempt and disrespect for the British people and democracy. Roll on an a general election. This parliament is a disgrace and an embarrassment.

  94. Phil_Richmond
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    I think looking medium term the Tory Party needed to be cleansed of the globalist soft left EU fanatic traitors. The 21 Boris expelled have zero Conservative principles. (if anyone disagrees then name one) However still so many quislings exist but it is a good start.

    These are the same people who stabbed Lady T in the back. Lets take back our Party. These are the same people who are really Lib Dems and have infiltrated the party.They can now join the Lib Dems and get 5% of the vote. I,e career over.

    • James1
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

      It’s going to be such a pleasure to watch the reaction of Remainers when it becomes apparent that the “catastrophe” of “crashing out” fails to materialise, and the “cliff-edge” nonsense is seen for what it plainly is – nonsense.

    • steve
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

      Phil_Richmond

      “These are the same people who stabbed Lady T in the back.”

      Ain’t that the truth !

      Though I and millions more wouldn’t describe them as people.

  95. Cliff. Wokingham
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Sir John
    Do you think that yesterday’s spending announcement will help our party’s reputation for being the party of sound economics?
    Given that the amount pledged is pretty much equal to the welfare cuts IDS made, is it fair to say that the spending rises are being funded by the sick, disabled and poor?

    Reply This is affordable and is funded by UK taxpayers and some additional borrowing

  96. Alison
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    By chance, the only two speeches in HoC I heard yesterday were you and Jess Phillips.
    Your speech was just perfect. Thank you.

  97. BR
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    The article is absolutely right. However, I suspect this is all an expected outcome, making the remoaners look like what they are and making it clear that an election is being forced on us by them.

    I very much doubt that this Bill will see assent (cue much faux wailing and wringing of hands, masquerading as ‘constitutional outrage’). To do so would be not only a total capitulation by the PM, but would also be democratically and constitutionally wrong for all the reasons given in the article.

    By refusing assent, this will show the tricksters that they can seize control of the order paper, but they still cannot pass legislation without being the government and that will require an election (since Johnson won’t accede to recommending any other PM during the 14 day period required under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.

    P.S. The stupid FTPA has to be first thing on the agenda for repeal by the new government.

    • BR
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:21 am | Permalink

      UPDATE: I’ve just read that BJ has told the Lords to ‘stand down’ (from the planned filibuster) , that he wants the HoC to ‘own’ this piece of legislation and to have to defend it at the next GE.

      That seems incredibly flawed strategy to me. Instead of him being able to refuse assent and watch the clock run down, they can now do that. They can wait until after 31/10 and then opt for a GE, with a new extension in place and watch BJ having to eat his words and go to the EU, eating his words promising that he would not do that.

      Please Boris, refuse assent and leave the clock ticking to 31/10 – put the ball in their court for a GE and call it after 31/10. You hold all the cards, play them.

      You cannot expect us voters to believe that we should give you 5 more years before we’ve left and believe that you won’t produce some version of May’s awful WA. Fool me once, shame on me… etc.

  98. Chris
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Indeed a useless Parliament, and, if the comments on a D Tel article written by Cons MP Guto Bebb are anything to go by, some useless and despised MPs. I do believe these Remainer Cons MPs are living in another world and are propping each other up/egging each other on to more insanity.

    They should take deep breaths, revisit the terms of the Referendum and the promises by the PM D Cameron, and the manifesto on which they were elected, and objectively just look at what they are doing: trying to overturn the Referendum result and destroy democracy. I am just utterly appalled at them and their actions.

    They should be booted out and the H of C party should have a raft of new, fresh MPs who have had experience outside Parliament and who can relate to ordinary people and who display integrity and honesty and other such basic values. I do not think I have ever seen such a group of dishonest scoundrels in Parliament before. What a disgrace they are to this country.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/04/should-care-leaving-party-even-members-would-sacrifice-altar/#comments

    • Chris
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 11:49 am | Permalink

      Typo: delete “party” after H of C.

  99. Kenneth
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    I am no legal expert but I would have thought that if the Conservative Party publishes a new manifesto now with the pledge that it will revoke any extension agreement and immediately remove us from the eu once re-elected, it will be within its rights, if re-elected to do just that.

    The protocol that an international agreement can bind future parliaments can surely not apply if the majority party made such a pledge as part of its manifesto.

    Whenever there is an election – next week or next year or whenever, this should surely be the best route for honouring the referendum

  100. David Maples
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Lord Chancellor More was a traitor in that he refused the King’s request to extricate him from his marriage to Katherine of Aragon, and implicitly inferred that the authority of the pope was superior to that of the English Crown. He also repeatedly argued with Henry, and faced him down in front of the court, such contradiction and lèse majesté deservedly costing him his head.
    The parallels with the present crisis are obvious. ‘Those who forget the lessons of history, are condemned to repeat them’.

  101. Jiminyjim
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    It was reported this morning that at 1:30 am, an agreement was reached between the government and the opposition that those supporting Brexit in the Lords would not seek to wreck the Bill’s progress, in exchange for an agreement that Jeremy Corbyn would not obstruct an early GE.
    Having listened carefully to the lunchtime news, it would seem that Jacob Rees-Mogg has confirmed that the government will be holding to that agreement. However, it now seems that the opposition will renege on it. The new convert to the Lib Dems said she would not vote for an election until after an extension to Article 50 had been triggered and Ken Clarke, who has clearly totally lost the plot, saying that a Withdrawal Agreement would have to have been agreed before he would vote for an election – maybe two or more years away? So who is now playing fast and loose with democracy? The so-called elites (who are nothing of the kind, but they think of themselves that way) had better start brushing up their CVs as the people won’t stand for this dishonesty and vengeance will follow

  102. Steve P
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Can the PM and his team hold off their resignations until the last possible second on October 31st – leaving nobody in place that is legally required to ask for the extension and no time for a successor to be found? It would also prevent the majority that is required for the EU to extend. I would love to see the faces of the remainers believing they were going to force the PM to do something against his wishes – only for that to happen. They have nothing in the traitors bill to cope with that situation.

  103. Chris
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    It is reported in D Express that the EU has said it is now pointless negotiating with Boris J as he has no control over Parliament. All sounds like a carefully hatched plan. I also see that Gove, Javid and others are asking for those who lost the whip to be brought back. Already disunity and from predictable quarters. I think the knives are out for Boris and I am not convinced that he can withstand them.

    Again the D Express: senior Cabinet Minister apparently says that Boris will resign if asked to go to Brussels. I find that hard to believe, but if true it just shows how emasculated by EU rule our politicians have been. Many seem to lack courage, boldness, resilience, vision, real focus and determination to fight for principles. They have got (metaphorically) lazy and fat while being fed at the teat of Brussels.

  104. Bob
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Government response to petition to restrict postal voting.
    𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘎𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵 𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘭 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘦𝘭𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦𝘥 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴. 𝘗𝘰𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘭 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘥 𝘱𝘰𝘱𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘳 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘵 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘦, 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘩𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬 𝘳𝘦𝘨𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘭𝘺 𝘵𝘢𝘬𝘦𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘢𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘩𝘰𝘮𝘦.

    The Tories have missed an opportunity to eliminate a common source of voter fraud which disadvantages them.

    • Kenneth
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

      I agree with you but the BBC and Channel 4 etc would undoubtedly mount a big campaign against this and this could end up with even more lost votes as a result.

      The government must take account of politically active media.

  105. Fred H
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Gove says he will vote FOR May’s WA if it is reintroduced…..
    Has he lost his marbles, or were they always missing? The man is a liability and as I said should never have been given a post with Boris. Another knife in the back but done quietly?

    • Chris
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

      He is a dead give-away. Never to be trusted, in my view, and a serial opportunist, apparently.

  106. Posted September 5, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    I despair at the way Parliament is going. If these Remainer MPs cancel the result of the Referendum and keep us in the EU, one important question I would ask them.

    Why do we need a House of Parliament?

    If we return to EU control I suggest we sack all MPS and Lords. Convert the Palace of Westminster to a five star hotel.

    • Ian!
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

      I thought it already was.

      They already just do the bidding of their EU Masters, not allowed to scrutinize laws, not allowed to amend them and certainly they are not permitted to repeal them. Even the EU’s own Parliament cant do any of those things – they themselves are just puppets(or is it Muppets) of the Overlords.

      They are desperate to hang on to not taking responsibility for anything. You could say they were the Local Council, but most of them do a better job.

  107. Stephen Reay
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    It will not be long before we here calls for Gove or Steward for Prime Minister. I know it beggars belief but anything can happen and Mays withdrawl agreement will probably be accepted. Sounds just like a Monty Python sketch.

    • Peter
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

      David Cameron – 6 years

      Theresa May – 3 years

      Boris Johnson – 6 weeks

      I think Michael Gove has more sense than to stick his finger into that particular hole right now.

  108. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    This morning the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, Stephen Barclay, faced questions in the House of Commons, and his answers were mostly feeble.

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-09-05/debates/AB4D5CF6-2037-4ED2-9CE1-7A814DA0234D/OralAnswersToQuestions

    Here we are, notionally just eight weeks from leaving the EU, with or without a deal, and yet the first three questions were identical queries about the supply of medicines, queries which were originally kicked off long ago on the basis of a range of silly false assumptions that pharmaceutical companies in the EU countries would no longer wish to supply us, or alternatively they would wish to continue to supply us but would not be allowed to do so, or alternatively customs authorities in the EU countries would start to hold up outgoing shipments of medicines bound for the UK, or alternatively UK customs authorities would start to unnecessarily hold up incoming shipments.

    Of which alternative problems perhaps the most stupid was the idea that our diabetic Prime Minister Theresa May would order UK customs officers to start intercepting and delaying imports of the insulin which she herself needed to inject four times a day.

    And yet rather than heaping ridicule on these stupid ideas Stephen Barclay indirectly reinforced them by going straight into talking about stockpiling:

    “For example, one of the leading insulin manufacturers, Novo Nordisk, has 18 weeks’ worth of supplies, while the Government had asked for six weeks’ worth.”

    Fine, that would be a worthwhile back up, as would be the special transport provisions which have been made, but the first point should have always been that after a quarter of a century of just nodding stuff into the country from the rest of the EU on the basis that we can have enough confidence in their standards to make routine inspections unnecessary we are not going to start inspecting it just because we have left the EU.

    If one of the other EU countries left the EU then we would have to think about whether at some point we would need to reinstate routine checks on its goods exports as they come into the UK, and that would be the same position that the EU and its other member states will be in with respect to our goods exports once we have left the EU, but as far as goods coming into the UK from the EU are concerned there would be no good reason why we should suddenly start checking what we did not check before.

    • acorn
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

      Denis, you have been looking down the wrong end of the telescope for three-plus years now. This is not simply about checking goods post Brexit we don’t currently check; it is about balancing trade between countries that operate to different economic models.

      Some countries are more protectionist of their domestic producers than others and accept that it raises domestic prices that will need balancing by taxation. Some subsidise some sectors while others don’t. The US, for instance, is far more protectionist than the EU, particularly for its farming sector and others that have large political clout.

      The best global economic protection tool is the “Rule of Origin”. For instance. UK car manufacturers currently source 44% of components from UK suppliers. But the proportion of these components actually made in the UK is somewhere between 20% and 25%”; a long way from the 55–60% threshold needed to qualify for an FTA with the EU; unless there is an agreement with the EU to allow “cumulation”.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

        acorn, you should try to keep your replies relevant to the original comment. Nothing you have written in any way explains why Theresa May should fear that after Brexit she and other diabetics may be deprived of the insulin they need. It has always been a nonsense, but a nonsense that she has been happy to see propagated and has therefore never exposed as a nonsense.

        • acorn
          Posted September 8, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

          So you are not bothered about the origin of the insulin, who made it and where or if it is actually what it says on the packaging.

  109. Ian Pennell
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Dear Sir John Redwood,

    It would seem that Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister has been snookered. Remainers (who have a majority in the Commons and Lords) will see to it that this Anti- Brexit Bill gets onto the Statute Book. At the same time, the Remainer Majority in the House of Commons don’t want to face the electorate for fear of losing their Seats!

    Labour have a plan: Get Boris Johnson to let this anti- democratic anti- Brexit Bill reach the statutes as a condition of agreeing to an Election then – once its on the Statute Books – Labour, with the connivance of the Remainer Speaker, refuse to go for a General Election until after 31st October. They want Boris Johnson to be forced to delay Brexit- backed up by a Judge if need be – so that the Conservatives are humiliated and the pro- Brexit Vote subsequently split before going for a General Election!

    The Prime Minister, Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings need to know- TODAY- just what Labour are planning. Boris Johnson MUST delay Royal Consent to this bill until (and on condition) that Labour support (and the Speaker allows) a Vote under the Fixed Terms Parliament Act for a General Election on 15th October.

    If Labour refuse and/ or the Speaker John Bercow refuses to support or even have the vote on the motion- Boris Johnson MUST delay Royal Consent until Prorogation kills this anti- democratic Bill next week. The Conservatives cannot allow the Left to delay a much- needed mandate for a new Parliament AND foist upon Britain a law that goes totally against the wishes of the Majority expressed in a Referendum.

    Is Boris Johnson alert to this Elephant Trap, Sir? In case he isn’t you MUST warn him TODAY.

    Best wishes, may Brexit – and Democracy – prevail!

    Ian Pennell

  110. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    With the capitulation of the Lords and its refusal to talk out Benn’s squalid little bill, and the refusal of the Commons to grant a General Election, Boris Johnson has only one way out. He must refuse to send that letter to the President of the EC requesting an extension. Then the only way of stopping No Deal would be a General Election.

    The PM must get his ducks in a row by forming an alliance with the Brexit Party. For a start, he should give a clear run to the Brexit Party in those constituencies where the Conservative MP has had the whip withdrawn. Secondly, there are Leave voting constituencies that have a Remain Labour or LibDem MP where a Brexit Party candidate is better placed to win than a Conservative candidate. Nigel Farage will make only one demand – that the Conservative Party unequivocally opts for a No Deal Brexit.

    I reiterate that Bercow’s behaviour has been totally unconstitutional. Just fancy allowing a backbencher to introduce a Bill not only demanding that the PM sends a letter demanding an extension to Article 50 but dictating the content of that letter word for word. Parliament has rights but so too do the people and the Prime Minister.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

      And I might have added that the Remain vote will be split between Labour and the LibDems, so that if the Conservative and Brexit parties form an alliance, they should do well under our first-past-the-post system.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      I’d like to submit a Bill where I will compose a letter which demands the PM writes on my behalf to all my utilities demanding to explain why their annual costs to me rise every year.

  111. glen cullen
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    TODAY – PM to the EU

    Thank you for allowing the UK an extention till the 31st October

    However it s no longer needed as the UK from TODAY has decided to leave the EU without a deal

    Cheers PM

    • Joy Elmes
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      The 31st October is the last day of the extension, so surely we can leave at any time up till that date. Go for it Boris, we are right behind you !!!

  112. Sharon Jagger
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    I don’t know if you ever read Brexit Central, but yet another person is trying to warn of the possible loss of our sovereignty of the Armed Forces even if we have a WTO departure. also, A lieutenant colonel says that the work of some of the civil servants et cetera will essentially have us tied into continuing involvement with the EU which would leave them in control of our Armed Forces.

    He say, “There is every risk that the Government could be led into these same defence arrangements under the guise of a trade deal, owing to the misplaced enthusiasm for these schemes among some members of the senior levels in the civil service. This has led to us being committed to at least seven levels of integration in EU defence structures that supersede and over-ride our national sovereignty. ”

    Link https://brexitcentral.com/beware-the-threat-to-our-defence-autonomy-coming-from-the-eu-and-not-just-in-the-draft-brexit-deal/

    • steve
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      Sharon Jagger

      Good post.

      I would have sentiment that those who wish to put our forces under EU control should themselves (or their Sons) be conscripted and put on the front line when the EU foolishly provokes Russia a step too far.

    • bill brown
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

      Sharon
      There is in the EU an opt out clause on whether we wish to be involved in EU defence, so what you have been told is just more fake news

      • Edward2
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

        Yet opt outs are being reduced under the Lisbon Treaty in a year or two.

  113. tim
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Is there any possiblity of forcing a General Election, Sir John?

  114. RichardM
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Sir you have oft referred to the benefits for the fishing industry with Brexit. Today we hear Johnsons suspension of parliament will result in the Fisheries act – required before your no-deal exit, is being canned.
    It would appear your government has betrayed what little is left of the fishing industry ?

  115. Gareth Warren
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    I read an interesting point on MISH talk that claims that since this bill requires the PM to accept a brexit delay rather than “seek” one it requires “Queens consent”, the Cooper-Letwin does not since it only compelled the PM to “seek” one.

    https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/another-weird-brexit-turn-tories-vote-to-support-no-deal-bill-in-house-of-lords-mUB9gkhpJEWtrA9sXGNoOw/

    This basically means then that Boris has to approve it. So, if true the remainers have removed key remainers from the conservative party, ruined EU negotiations and gifted Boris an early election.

    I do hope this sequence of events is true, we shall see.

  116. Alison M
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Is there nothing we can do legally about these remainer MPs trashing our constitution?
    They gave us a referendum and said they would respect it then spent the next three years undermining it. The remainers in the Conservative party kept Theresa May in office long enough for her negotiate a surrender treaty with the EU. Then when she started surrendering to Jeremy Corbyn they finally stopped her. Then when the majority of Conservative MPs and members voted for someone with gumption the 21 Rebels in the Conservative party and nearly all of the opposition surrendered again to the EU.
    Despite saying they want a people’s vote none of the MPs will let their constituents vote on what they plan to do. The people are sovereign not Parliament this is the true coup against the people. Anything this Parliament agrees to on our behalf is surely not binding on the people.
    This can not continue, the FTPA must be repealed, the Speaker must be held accountable for trashing the constitution, postal voting should be reformed, any MP who loses the whip or changes party should have to have a bye election.
    If MPs are not accountable to their electorate they become dictators.

  117. Shirley
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    The logic and arguments of Remainers is the most dishonest spin I have ever heard. They claim the public don’t want a no-deal exit, but won’t allow them a voice. The only logical explanation is that they know their claims are untrue.

    They fear a GE, and want to tie the hands of a future government. I thought that was illegal.

  118. Geoffrey Berg
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    I wonder what taxpayers are forking out £80,000 salary a year to each M.P. for as the whole performance from all the Opposition (Kate Hoey apart) is a disgrace as they seem too stupid to even see it.
    First, many elected M.Ps are individually asking even single unelected Judges to overrule the Queen and Parliament (over prorogation) on matters that are political and in a democracy are the province of Parliament. It is a disgrace for M.Ps to go up and down the parts of the U.K. trying to find some individual Judges who think they should overrule
    Parliament – as for John Major’s role, has he conveniently forgotten that during the six years he was in charge Parliament recessed for three months each Summer and never sat in September at all?
    Next , even though I agree with John Redwood in wanting a no-deal, clean break Brexit, most politicians , including the Tory rebels, are too stupid to even see that with consummate skill Boris Johnson has got the key breakthrough in the EU negotiations which May couldn’t get and almost certainly no Prime Minister since Churchill would have achieved – that is Merkel and Macron have now conceded (which they had refused to yield before) that The Withdrawal Agreement can be amended. When the Irish Government realises their position under No Deal is politically unsustainable (prior to their general election) as they would then have created the worst of all worlds for themselves, no Irish backstop and economic problems, Boris Johnson was poised to get the concessions and much improved deal he has genuinely been seeking. Those many M.Ps who are feigning wanting a deal to leave with when really they are trying not to leave anyhow (and indeed the lesser number in the Opposition who want a deal) have been too obtuse to see this.
    As for insisting on passing an Act of Parliament to bind its successor, I was naively under the impression that a large part of the point of a General Election is for the people (who clearly count for nothing except as an inconvenience in the view of all the Opposition) to decide and elect who they want to negotiate with the E.U.on their behalf and also what stance to take. Anyhow, I suppose if Boris Johnsonexplains to E.U. Leaders that his views won’t change and the purpose of the proposed delay is just to waste more of their time on Brexit, they will refuse an extension anyhow – so much for our dim and useless Parliamentarians!
    Now that at last for the first time since Margaret Thatcher Britain has a world class Prime Minister (who is technically in the same league as the technically most competent world leaders such as Putin and Erdogan), our Parliamentarians are too useless to appreciate his huge skills and let the country benefit from it.

  119. steve
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    RichardM

    “It would appear your government has betrayed what little is left of the fishing industry ?”

    Do not worry. At some future point we ARE leaving the EU and we WILL be reversing any capitulations.

    Things are going to change, politics and government is going to change……the days when the political elite wipe their backsides on the people are nearing an end. That much, you can thank brexit for, the truth is out and now everyone knows the establishment has been having us over since Maastricht.

  120. Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    I do not want a re-hashed version of May’s Withdrawal/Submission Agreement, re-hashed by the pro-EU civil servant/diplomat recently sent to Brussels by the Prime Minister. This country must recover its freedom and independence. We do not need a deal, we do not have to ask to leave.

  121. bill brown
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    Sir JR,

    I do not consider what Parliament is doing is, working against the wishes of the referendum as you are stating.

    We never voted for a no deal as it was never raised or discussed or mentioned

    • TomTomTom
      Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

      quite right. The question was “Leave” or “Remain”.

      It wasn’t no-deal, a deal, a custom union, Norway+ or Cananda+++

      And it definitely wasn’t arse-around-for-3-years-and-fail-to-leave.

    • BR
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:22 am | Permalink

      Remoaner spin. We voted to leave. It was unconditional, we did not vote to leave only with a deal.

      We had further elections on the basis of “No deal is better than a bad deal”.

      You remoaners undermine democracy. You need to accept the verdict, that’s the only way democracy can work.

      • bill brown
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:38 am | Permalink

        BR,

        Interesting perspective but could be argued against , your generalisations are not worth the paper it is written on

  122. David
    Posted September 5, 2019 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    One question has never been asked was it lawful for the UK to enter the EU in the first place ? It would be good if the legality of the membership of the EU was looked at in the light of the Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights 1689 . If there has been collusion with the EU by remain MPs then investigations should begin and the correct course to justice sought.

    • ukretired123
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:16 am | Permalink

      Yes especially when joining was based on a fundamental lie hidden from all and jolly good old Uncle Ted Heath s sofa government covered it up with the FCO 30/1048 document for 30 years!

  123. Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    Sir John – your blog seems to be a victim of its own success. Obviously a lot of pro-EU remains who wish to disseminate their message of gloom and despondency and hatred of all things Brexit have a mission to infect every corner of the MSM.
    It’s good that you try to be impartial and allow all points of view – but the bile and vitriol that these people spew out seems to be spewed in complete disregard of the fact that this is your own private blog!

  124. Paul
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    The truth is the EU has negotiated the deal it wants, and the UK Parliament and people have decisively rejected that same deal.

    Have the British people decisively rejected the deal that the EU have proposed? I wasn’t aware we’d had a vote on the deal! I agree that the EU have laid out a deal which they are willing to sign up to, and I agree that there is no majority in Parliament to accept that deal. But I don’t think the British people have rejected it……if I am honest, I don’t think the majority of the British people even understand what the deal is or isn’t!

    Reply Yes in the Euro election the Agreement got just 9% support

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

    Promoted by David Edmonds on behalf of John Redwood both of 30 Rose Street Wokingham RG40 1XU

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