No deal is better than a bad deal

Various people are spreading the lie that they were not told No deal is better than a bad deal  before the 2017 election. Not only did Mrs May often say it but it was  on p36 of the Conservative  Manifesto.

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  1. Stephen Priest
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    According to Remoan mind readers when I voted leave I didn’t vote for no deal.

    Anyone who knows anything about the EU knows that any deal with the EU would be a bad deal.

    • Andy
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

      You have never been given the opportunity to vote on no deal.

      You may think you were – but that is only because you were not paying attention.

      This lack of attention to detail may be why you back Brexit.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

        When you voted remain were you voting in the future to have the Euro, allow further nations to join, tax harmonisation and more QMV creating an EU army or were you voting remain for the EU to remain just as it is today?
        How much attention were you paying young Andy?
        This lack of attention to detail is why you voted remain.

      • G Wilson
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

        Of course we were, in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2019.

        At each vote, leaving the EU without reference to any “deal” has always been the winning proposition.

        In fact, every general election-winning manifesto since 2005 has promised a referendum or a withdrawal. Parties have to pose as anti-EU to win. That’s how sick the British people are of the EU.

        If we are made to vote on the question for a fifth time, in a new general election, we’ll vote to leave again, and this time we might vote for that nice Mr Farage to get it done.

      • Jiminyjim
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

        So those of us who voted Leave, Andy, all 17.4m of us, were not as intelligent as you, were not paying attention and had no attention to detail.
        A lot of us, Andy, have had far more successful careers than yours. What a totally insulting comment. Do you really not have the ability to argue from a position of facts.
        No, of course not

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

        Still yet to hear which EU party it is that your politics align with best.

      • Chris
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

        It is the default for Article 50. How can you not know this? If negotiations have failed after two years, you leave without a deal and revert to trading on WTO terms.

      • rose
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

        The overwhelming majority of MPs voted for it, twice. Together with the EU, they made it the law – properly, not in a lightning rogue strike.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 8:28 am | Permalink

        That’s odd. Ok my ballot paper it asked:

        Do you want to Remain in the European Union?
        Do you want to leave the European Union?

        Simple as that. No mention of deals. In or out. Black or white. Binary choice. You lot who recess to accept the referendum result will do anything to justify your undemocratic and autocratic actions. Just like the EU!

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 9:13 am | Permalink

        The withdrawal agreement (any withdrawal agreement) is not a deal. It is a requirement to follow EU directives and processes until a deal is made.

        Thus leaving will always be with no deal until the FTA is agreed.

        The EU will not enter into FTA talks until we leave. Leaving is by default No deal

      • Dioclese
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 9:23 am | Permalink

        So 17.4 million people ar all too stupid to know what they were voting for? Where have I heard that one before???

        I have studied the Withdrawal Agreement. Ignore the backstop, it’s still terrible.

        I was paying attention closely when I voted Leave. The ballot paper was remain or leave. Nothing else. No mention of any deal. Anyone with a grain of intelligence would know that we were never going to get anything other than a punishment deal designed to scare other countries into following our lead.

        I backed Brexit because I do not want this country subservient to and unelected foreign autocracy. Remainers are now using ‘Stop No Deal’ as an excuse for what they really mean – ‘Stop Brexit’.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 9:32 am | Permalink


        Attention to detail you say

        You cry almost every day about to quote you ” the disaster, breakdown and failure of the UK economy” Yet when asked for evidence you run away and hide

        So explain this


        U.K. GDP rises 0.3% with growth across all sectors of the economy, easing some recession fears

        Also Bloomberg

        Norway’s $1 Trillion Wealth Manager Vows to Stick to U.K. ‘No Matter What’

        “What we’ve said for three years now is that we are a long-term investor in Great Britain no matter what the outcome,” Yngve Slyngstad, the chief executive officer of Norges Bank Investment Management, said in an interview in Oslo with John Micklethwait on Bloomberg TV.

        Is almost as if you are clueless Andy

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

      You didn’t vote for no deal, because all the Leave campaigns promised one, and there was nothing whatsoever on the ballot paper against one.

      Good and bad are relative terms, and the deal would have to be far, far worse than anything so far proposed to be poorer than no deal.

      In any case, the UK will have to negotiate access to ports, roads, airspace, and markets whether it leaves with a deal or not.

      Reply Remain throughout the campaign told us we would be leaving the single market and customs union with no special deal.

      • Richard1
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

        2 things are clear:-

        1. At no point did the Remain campaign say that we would only actually leave the EU if we had managed to agree a deal acceptable to the EU, otherwise the referendum would be ignored; and

        2. The WA traps the UK permanently in the EU`s regulatory and trading arrangements (such as the CU) without any votes. It would therefore preclude any realisation of the potential benefits of Brexit as claimed by the Leave side.
        The WA is therefore worse than remain- as I see even mr farage now agrees.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

        Read the Leaflet Martin.
        Listen again to speeches by the PM stating what leaving meant.

        • Chris
          Posted September 9, 2019 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

          Martin seems to have been AWOL when the relevant info was being pumped into us verbally and on paper.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

        Thank you John.

        That was a warning, as to the fact of what leaving the treaties would mean, on the fair assumption that only utter fools would treat that lightly, and recognise that replacing those essential entitlements might not be easy.

        It was NOT a report of a policy promise.

        But you know that, don’t you?

        • mancunius
          Posted September 9, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

          English not your first language then?
          ‘No deal is better than a bad deal.’ The warning there is a warning against accepting a bad deal from the EU.

      • Jiminyjim
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

        So now, MiC, you claim to know what was in my head when I voted Leave.
        What unutterable tosh. How dare you claim to know what I knew and didn’t know?

      • libertarian
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink


        You really ought to find out what the organisation you back has to say about this.

        Anyway we voted to leave and leave means just that, there were no caveats We all know what we voted for just because youre dim dont tar everyone else with the same brush

      • libertarian
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:57 pm | Permalink


        There was nothing on the ballot paper about extending A50 either . When parliament passed A50 by a large margin we didn’t have a deal, so parliament voted for no deal

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

        We voted Leave and so you think Hard Remain (the WA) is acceptable.

      • Brenda
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 11:30 am | Permalink

        Remain lost!!

    • Mark B
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

      The fact is, we voted to Leave the EU and, as stated in Art.50, we either agreed to the negotiated WA or, we left after 2 years in no WA could be negotiated.

      It is parliament, rejecting the WA three times that has created this situation, not people not knowing that they voted for.

    • Pud
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

      According to Remoaners, deals or lack thereof didn’t come into it. Apparently I and everyone else who vote Leave did so because we’re old, thick, uneducated and racist.

    • Newmania
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

      Anyone who knows anything about the EU knows that any deal with the EU would be a bad deal.

      Love this … oh so much material to choose from
      Lets open a saucy bottle of Redwood from early 2016……I amused by its piquancy…etc

      The UK could simply amend the 1972 European Communities Act to make clear that as from the Exit vote all EU laws and rules in the UK …..
      ( So thats no cessation process at all ..a unilateral hostile act)

      ( he goes on…)
      ……… the UK would then be able to negotiate which agreements and rules need to remain to facilitate our trade and economic relations with the EU……. I would expect the rest of the EU to want to keep the trade agreements, mutual market access, pipeline, transport …… the UK is free to legislate as it wishes – over borders, benefits, environment, energy and much else”

      Now that was what merely Mr Redwood was offering at the time. Which is not No Deal it is more No Truth.

      Reply I offered several possible futures, not just one case.

  2. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Then they either weren’t interested, didn’t pay attention or are liars. It must have been the phrase of the decade.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

      I haven’t heard or read anyone make that claim.

      This seems to be just another variant of victimhood-signalling yet again.

      • Hope
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

        You clearly have not followed events what “a deal” means. It was a trade deal not Withdrawal Agreement. Mayhab conflated the two to deceive the public and dopey MPs. There is no EU law or treaty requirement to have a Withdrawal and EU law supersedes UK law.,parliament,cannot ask for something that the EU is not legally required to provide a nation when leaving.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

        Your memory is playing tricks on you Martin.
        Read the Leaflet again.
        Go online and listen to the many speeches made by Cameron and Osborne during the referendum campaign.

      • Fred H
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

        Martin..if ever there were victim signalling its you! You lost and you keep finding toys to throw out of your pram…..get over it man!

      • mancunius
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

        Either for some reason you slept through the Conservative campaign during the General Election, or you are suffering from severe deafness. Or you are just pretending you ‘haven’t heard or read’ that ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’. It was indeed a current phrase used by the government during the months following the 2016 referendum, and enshrined in the Manifesto – P.36 line 1 to be precise.
        (Is ‘Cardiff’ so remote from the rest of the country?)

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

        That’s rubbish and you know it. So you admit you haven’t been keeping pace with events!

  3. rose
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    And Nigel Farage coined the expression during the Referendum campaign of 2016.

  4. Oggy
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    It’s just more BS to undermine the referendum result.

    But as all leavers know, EU law says we cannot get a trade deal with the EU until after we have left, so why do the remoaners keep asking where is the deal before we have left ?

    Leavers also know that according to A50 the EU should enter negotiations in good faith on the future relationship with the departing state. We also know they have not done this and are in violation of their own treaty.

    WTO exit it is then.

    • L Jones
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 5:32 am | Permalink

      Spot on, Oggy. When it’s put so simply, one wonders about the pig’s ear they’re allowing the remains to make of it.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 6:53 am | Permalink

      Exactly. Who would want to be in a club with members behaving as they are doing?

    • Jack Leaver
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      Oggy, I agree. The EU and remainiacs need to be reminded of this:

      European Council Brussels, 29 April 2017, EUCO XT 20004/17
      Special meeting of the European Council (Art. 50) (29 April 2017) – Guidelines

      2. Negotiations under Article 50 TEU will be conducted in transparency and as a single package. In accordance with the principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, individual items cannot be settled separately.

      By demanding the UK sign up to the WA and PD before a trade deal is agreed, the EU is in contradiction of the core principles set out in EUCO XT 20004/17.

      11. In view of the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland, flexible and imaginative solutions will be required, including with the aim of avoiding a hard border, while respecting the integrity of the Union legal order. In this context, the Union should also recognise existing bilateral agreements and arrangements between the United Kingdom and Ireland which are compatible with EU law.

      I have not seen any evidence that the EU has made any effort to develop “flexible and imaginative solutions” with the UK nor has any intention of doing so.

  5. Treacle
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    The Remainers will stop at nothing now in their attempts to keep us in the EU. Dominic Grieve was all over the TV yesterday talking about the Prime Minister potentially going to prison if he tries to take us out of the EU. And yet the majority voted to leave.

    • Hope
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

      The PM cannot go to prison for a creation that parliament has invented. It is not a requirement of article 50 to have a Withdrawal Agreement. In any event parliament was talking about a trade deal not a Withdrawal Agreement. Mayhab exchanged/ conflated in its place to make our country a vassal state. No court could agree to slavery of our country and its people, no matter how much Grieve would like it to be the case.

    • Marie Dunne
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      Lies lies and more leaver lies. He goes to prison if he defies Parliament, nothing to do with the EU. Are you leavers physicalky incapable of being truthful?

      • DLP
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

        Oh here we go again, the same old remainer reply. They have no sensible basis for any argument to remain so resort to the usual lines that have been trotted out god knows how many times.

  6. Iain Gill
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Politicians and journalists who lie is the norm.

  7. Andy
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    58% voted against the Conservatives in the last election.

    No deal has no mandate.

    Plus – you might want to read the rest of the manifesto which promises a smooth exit and a deep and special partnership with the EU. Please detail precisely what your party has done to achieve this?

    We can wait.

    • Hope
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

      Leaving was never dependent on any deal trade deal or Withdrawal Agreement. It is not a requirement of article 50. Leaving the EU has the biggest mandate in electoral history. Cameron made it clear what leave meant in June 2016 in,palriament. It was certainly nothing like Mayhab has tried to achieve by deceit. Are you really that stupid?

    • Edward2
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

      Conservatives are now 14% ahead in the latest polls.
      Now wonder you want to block the proper people’s vote Andy.
      Give us an election.

    • Shirley
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

      Both Labour and the Conservatives pledged in their manifestos to Leave the EU, and combined they received 86% of the vote.

      Note: I repeat, 86% for manifestos that promised to LEAVE THE EU.

    • Jiminyjim
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

      Your comment, Andy, just proves that you don’t have the remotest idea of democracy. Get ready, Andy, we’re leaving, sooner or later, and you’ll have a bad day. What a shame

    • Fred H
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

      you love your meaningless stats don’t you.

    • None of the above
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

      Then you must be confident that a General Election would go your way.

    • mancunius
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

      You haven’t long to wait – we’re leaving on 31st October.

    • Robert mcdonald
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

      84% voted for parties that promised to implement the 2016 referendum decision to leave the eurocracy.

    • Pud
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

      Funny how you’re convinced that there’s no mandate for “no deal” but when Boris tries to call a General Election which would determine the veracity of your assertion, the opposition refuse.
      In case you haven’t noticed, until recently the Conservative Party has, despite the clear instruction of the voters, done their best to not leave the EU. Now that Boris appears to be trying to leave, the opposition have conspired to thwart him and the electorate.

      • Pud
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

        Also, we mustn’t forget the Remoaners” repeated request for a rerun of the referendum, misnamed a People’s Vote. They seem a lot less keen on hearing what the people think now that Remain is convinced the people will confirm their desire to leave the EU.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

      Let’s have an election and find out if there’s a mandate.

      Oh. You don’t want one (we know why.) You’d rather bang Boris away in prison.

    • Richard1
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

      A majority has ‘voted against’ every government ever elected in the UK, and by extension against every policy ever enacted by a British govt.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

      Both the Conservatives and Labour promised to leave at that election. Both May and Corbyn were lying alas.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 8:37 am | Permalink


      You keep parroting No Deal as if it actually meant something. It means absolutely nothing

      Give me ONE example of what deal terms you think we need

      I won’t wait as Andy cant answer questions , he just cuts and pastes Facebook posts

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 10:41 am | Permalink

      Typical contrived logic. A vote for something is not necessarily a vote against something else. Surely even you can see the EU has no intention of enabling a smooth exit. YHEY are the ones refusing to discuss the future until we have left.

    • agricola
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 11:32 am | Permalink

      That 58% was fragmented and at the time could not produce the requisite majority to form agovernment.

      No deal was never a subject for a mandate. Just to remind you the question was Leave or Remain. Leave prevailed with 52% of the vote. So we leave, with or without a deal. By being so commercially dumb as to rule out no deal, remainers are unlikely to be offered a deal. By definition they are losers, sad that there are so many of them in Parliament at the moment.

      The manifesto was probably an aspiration, unlike Labour’s declared respect for the referendum result. Another socialist gold plated lie, they have no respect for anything other than their perceived self interest, and that changes with the wind. We should be grateful that they have made themselves unelectable.

  8. Kevin
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    And, of course, we were told, on the eve of the referendum, that the UK would not be able to return to the negotiating table if it voted to leave the EU. We were told that the outcome would be final, and that “out is out”. We were told that the UK would not get a better deal than the one already negotiated by David Cameron. We were told all of this – and still we voted Leave.

    That should have set expectations.

  9. eleanor justice
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    How low are the remainers going to go to defeat Democracy? Hang on Boris please get us out on 31st then go to the country you will walk it”the readiness is all”

    • Chris
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

      Agreed. These Remainers have lost all sense and are just egging each other on in their insanity.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 7:02 am | Permalink

      How low indeed. Pretty low given the behaviour of Rudd, signing up to the Boris agenda one week and then betraying him the next? I would never have trusted her myself Boris is perhaps too trusting. He trusted Gove and his brother too hopefully he will become more ruthless when he has the numbers. A deal with Farage is needed. Farage can however be trusted.

  10. Richard1
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    The death of Mugabe is a chance to be reminded of the horrors of his rule in Zimbabwe, disgracefully ignored by the West, especially the UK and US, for far too long.

    It is a reminder of why we must never allow a Marxist- inspired govt to take power in the UK.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

      It is indeed. The Corbyn government want to kill private schools, steal property off landlords, steal shares of company owners and pension funds. Probably kill private health care and long terms care too. In short to destroy all confidence in the UK economy and deter nearly all investment in it. While forcing people to use dire state monopolies in education, health care, housing and the likes. It would be a total disaster.

      The Tories are far too left wing on these issue already. Freedom, choice and far lower taxes is what is needed.

    • Shirley
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

      Good point. Likewise, this Parliament won’t help those demanding democracy in Hong Kong. How can our Parliament defend democracy in Hong Kong when it is doing it’s best to destroy it in the UK?

      Parliament gave the decision to the people. We made a decisions, and the majority vote was Leave.

    • mancunius
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

      And yet Grieve, Clarke, Clark, Gauke, Rudd etc. have done as much as they can to enable Corbyn to stage a coup.
      I can understand the remainer MPs who have offshore assets they think Labour cannot touch, but the many among the remainer Tories who have considerable landed and business interests that tie them to EU subsidies must surely realize they are even more threatened with financial ruin by a Corbyn/McDonnell government.

    • rose
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

      And yet when he died, we were told that our PM was a dictator carrying out a coup and that Mugabe had procured freedom for his country.

    • Mitchel
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

      Zimbabwe has no oil and is not strategically located next door to Iran,Russia or China, so was never going to attract interest from US(and,therefore,UK)policy makers.

  11. Fred H
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Among the few things she said that was honest.

  12. Lifelogic
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    Exactly anyway it blindingly obvious and self evidently true. We voted to leave with or without a deal. If a deal worth having is on offer so be it otherwise no deal it is.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

      Ruling out no deal = accepting whatever deal we are offered by the EU however bad it is. Yet this is what the insane Lab/Lib/Plaid/Greens/SNP are trying to do. They are traitors pure and simple (or at best very, very stupid indeed).

      • Sam Vara
        Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        Exactly. Nobody would rule out no deal if they were negotiating anything else. Imagine trying to buy a house or a car if the vendor knows that your family have instructed you to buy that particular house or car, cone what may.. I don’t think any MPs are too stupid to grasp this, so their actions can only be seen as an attempt to derail Brexit.

      • Alouette
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

        I do not belong to any political party and I am neither insane, stupid nor a traitor. Ruling out no deal does not mean the same as accepting whatever deal the EU offers. What it does imply, however, is that further discussions should be held, and these should include looking at whether it might be better for the majority of the country to remain in the EU, especially now we know from so many experts in their fields what the ramifications are likely to be if we leave, particularly if we leave with no deal.

        • Fred H
          Posted September 9, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

          Alouette …..experts in their fields? Hilarious – the end of pier crystal ball gazer for a few silver coins would make more sense.

          • Alouette
            Posted September 9, 2019 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

            I would rather listen to expert practitioners in medecine, education, industry, agriculture, social care, banking, defence, security, etc etc than to politicians.

  13. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Well, in any case the general election was held on June 8 2017, while the Act to empower the Prime Minister to serve the Article 50 notice that the UK intended to withdraw from the EU, with or without a withdrawal agreement under the terms of that article as it might turn out, came into effect on March 16 2017, and during the Commons passage of that Bill MPs like Philip Hammond had voted for it even though they must have known that it could lead to a supposedly catastrophic “no deal” outcome.

    “So here we had a man who held one of the great offices of state, that of Chancellor of the Exchequer, voting for a course of action which he must have known perfectly well at the time could potentially lead to what he now claims would be catastrophe for our country, without objecting that the Bill should be amended to incorporate whatever safeguards could be devised to prevent that eventuality; only now does he use this as an excuse to try to stop not just a no deal Brexit, but any other kind of Brexit.”

  14. Christine
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    MPs voted down the Withdrawal Agreement, therefore, according to Article 50, No Deal is the default option. Or didn’t they know what they voted for?

    • Chris
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

      No, Christine, they obviously were ignorant or couldn’t be bothered to research matters for themselves. They apparently just thought they would walk it, and in 2016 they had the shock of their lives and have been behaving far worse than spoilt children ever since.

  15. Shirley
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    The Remainers and most of the MSM ignore facts that don’t fit their agenda, especially the pre-referendum Project Fear which has been thoroughly discredited, but it managed to persuade many to vote Remain. They do remember the bus though, just not what was actually written on it.

  16. libertarian
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Deal/No Deal is an issue invented by Remainers

    The rules of the game were straightforward

    We voted to Leave, no matter what

    SOME Leave campaigners wanted a deal, SOME leave campaigners wanted a Norway situation, SOME leaver campaigners wanted Canada , SOME leave campaigners wanted EFTA . EVER SINGLE ONE of the 17.4 million wants to LEAVE

    We currently dont have a deal with the worlds biggest economy or the worlds second biggest economy or indeed the worlds 6th biggest economy and NOR does the EU

    So remainers please tell me what we actually need a deal for? To do what exactly ?

    Reply Indeed. Remain and the government in the referendum told us leaving meant leaving the customs union and single market with no special favours.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:11 pm | Permalink


    • Tabulazero
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

      Then why don’t you ask all those categories of leavers what they truly want and if they have not changed their mind in the meantime.

      Please note that in your list none wanted to leave without a deal which is what the Boris Johnson want.

      Boris Johnson voted twice against the WA (despite a 3 line whip… so much for party discipline) before finally voting for it.

      If he can change his mind, why couldn’t your average lukewarm Brexiter

      • Edward2
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

        Boris wants a deal.
        So do I.
        But the dreadful Withdrawal Agreement has been rejected by Parliament three times and the EU repeatedly says it will not alter its position and renegotiate.
        What therefore do you propose to move forward?

        • Tabulazero
          Posted September 9, 2019 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

          Boris does not want a deal. Amber Rudd knows that… hell… even his own brother knows that.

          He simply wants to pin the blame of the no deal he craves on anybody else but himself.

          Pick your choice: it will either be the saboteur remoaners or the inflexible EU bureaucrats or the French.

          In his shoes I would go for the French. It’s a classic afterall.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

            Carefully not answering my question as usual Tab.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 3:38 pm | Permalink


        Please try to pay attention to what YOU voted for

        The European Union rules ( the ones YOU voted for) make it quite clear . Once you trigger Article 50 you have two years to tie up all the logistics and then you leave.

        Article 50 was triggered and a large majority voted for it in parliament , so parliament sanctioned what you call no deal. Thats the DEFAULT position. once we’ve left all kinds of “deals” might be made with all kinds of people.

        However I’ve now asked this question of all the rabid remainers and not one has attempted an answer

        WHY EXACTLY do you need a deal, to do what exactly ? What needs to be in the deal? Come on I’m waiting

    • rose
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

      The thing they want us to sign is not a deal in the sense of a Free Trade Deal, but a glorified ransom note, a surrender treaty. Free Trade is the last thing they want.

  17. Frances Truscott
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Media isn’t publishing what is happening to countries which did make deals. They are not for instance mentioning what is happening to the swiss.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

      Frances….but to be fair – who cares?

    • mancunius
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

      Nor have they mentioned that the tax exemption promised to the Republic of Ireland that induced its citizens to change their 2009 referendum No to a Yes is about to be cancelled by the EU.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink


        Ireland has just been well and truly stuffed by the EU

        Brexit will very quickly take hold when the people realise they have been sold down the river

        Ireland would be far better off in NAFTA and with a FTA with the UK

    • rose
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

      Very pertinent point.

  18. Iain Moore
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    The Remainers play words games about deal or no deal, but one undeniable fact, whether deal or no deal either one is closer to the choice people made than what they are trying to substitute them for … Remain.

  19. Margaret
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    The usual answer when lying is “I don’t recall”

  20. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    For the sake of my own reputation I wondered whether to send a letter to the editor of the Maidenhead Advertiser publicly dissociating myself from any unlawful actions by Boris Johnson, for whom the only honourable course is resignation; but in the end I decided that he will probably back down when he has a clearer vision of the prison gates yawning open to receive him, and so I sent this little letter instead:

    “In 2003 the EU was working to provide itself with a codified Constitution, and one important question which arose during that process was that of a provision for the secession, or voluntary withdrawal, of a member state from the Union.

    Concern had been expressed that the EU was being increasingly depicted as a kind of prison, rather than a voluntary treaty-based association of countries, and therefore it was considered necessary to introduce a mechanism for a country to leave.

    Moreover, it was agreed that the decision to leave should rest entirely with the country concerned.

    To quote from the preparatory work for that article, which eventually became the present Article 50 TEU:

    “The Praesidium considers that … withdrawal of a Member State from the Union cannot be made conditional upon the conclusion of a withdrawal agreement. Hence the provision that withdrawal will take effect in any event two years after notification … ”

    So what has our own Parliament now done? Passed an Act to make the withdrawal of the UK from the EU conditional upon the conclusion of a withdrawal agreement.

    Where the EU itself feared to tread in the past, our homegrown eurofanatics have now rushed in.”

  21. John Sheridan
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    If we cannot leave without a ‘deal’ then we are at the EU’s mercy. They can offer (have offered) a bad deal and if we do not accept it, then we would have to stay in the EU.

    We do not need their permission to leave, so no deal must be a valid option as no deal is better than a bad deal.

  22. ukretired123
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    Anyone with half a brain knew the EU were not going to be jolly nice to us based on their previous track record with Greece, Ireland and other countries who wanted out.
    Folks pretending they are not in it to control all countries in Europe are just downright devious and deceitful.
    You can fool most of the people most of the time that the EU is a benevolent charity at heart but never fool yourself.
    Remainers have been repeating such nonsense so long they have finally brainwashed themselves and cannot abide by any other persons alternative viewpoint.

  23. HThomas
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Boris is now becoming a Freedom Fighter.

    The Conservative Party is no longer the conservative party

    It is The People’s Party

    • Fred H
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      HT …..WRONG. Brexit Party is the peoples party. The current Conservative Party is rapidly reaching a crossroads. Collapse into near oblivion or fight tooth and nail to recover some sense of values that were understood a decade and more ago, but now hardly recognisable.

  24. Tabulazero
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    An from the continent’s perspective, no deal is better than no backstop because you cannot trust the Conservatives not to undermine the Single-Market and seek to give British companies an unfair advantage over their European counterparts.

    The member states and the EU Parliament will never fall for it.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

      British companies offer goods and services to other countries at good quality and prices which customers in other countries decide to purchase.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

        … by side stepping all the rules and regulations their European counterparts have to follow by being part of the Single-Market.

        Strangely enough, the said European companies who have no choice but to follow the law find this situation highly unfair and complain to their elected politicians.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

          If you sell goods into any export market you have to comply with all that market’s requirements.
          You have meet all technical and regulatory requirements.
          Otherwise they will be rejected.
          You show your complete lack of trading experience.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 3:42 pm | Permalink


      What on earth are you bailing about? You do know that they already operate tariff barriers within the single market right? What would this unfair advantage consist of ?

      You really haven’t got a clue about trade or business have you. You literally have no idea what the single market is even

  25. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Look, we had a general election in 2017 and once again we voted in a majority of MPs who do not want the UK to leave the EU. Now that reluctance to follow the wishes of the electorate as expressed in the 2016 referendum vote has been nursed in enough of their breasts for long enough to break out into action to stop it happening. For anybody who wanted to leave the EU it was folly to vote for a candidate who had always wanted to stay in the EU, and I do not exempt myself from that criticism because I decided to trust Theresa May and I lent her my vote here in Maidenhead. Never again, never again will I vote for any Tory candidate in any public election, rather I will try to vote to help destroy that party dominated by liars, cheats hypocrites and traitors like her. But while we dupes continue to vote supporters of the EU into Parliament of course they will do whatever they can do to promote its interests, including keeping us in it.

  26. BW
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    I have just read that France would veto an extension. That Guy chap of the EU has said that an extension would have to have something different, Revoking article 50, second referendum. Etc etc. With Mr Bercow and his remainer back benchers, how long do you think it will take them to put into law a second referendum to achieve a delay. I mean they seem to be able to make laws very quickly these days. If parliament returns it would only take them a day. Just saying.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

      BW – – this is the point, what has Parliament done during the last 3 years? Sat on fat arses, argued until blue in the face, lied, cheated, misrepresented facts, their party policy, the electorate views. A truly disgraceful bunch – well actually 200- 300, who should never have been elected. It just shows you how what was a nation of justice, statutes defined over hundreds of years, a clear process of ballot box voting, election of MPs to represent the people, a chosen PM, a clear process to unseat MPs and their leader should the people wish – all thrown into the hideous foul gutter of subterfuge, lying, cheating rebellion. I and my late parents, indeed my adult children, would never have believed the Parliament could sink to such banana republic dishonesty.
      How are Politics going to be taught in our state schools and universities?

      • BW
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

        Fred. I agree although you put it better than I. Of course our children will be taught as they have done for the last decade or so, by the Left. I saw an art exhibit in a school done by a pupil. It was 2 years ago. It was entitled, “the rise of UKIP”, there were swastikas all over it. How is that acceptable. Whatever you think of them. What I am livid about is that most MPs owe their seats on the back of manifestos that were to deliver Brexit. So they lied. If you change party, change the view for why you were elected , you should be compelled to sit a by election. Some Mps have been in three parties since they were elected. This is not parliamentary democracy, but hypocrisy. I do hope that Boris has a cunning plan.

  27. Dominic
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Leave IS THE TRUTH. Remain IS A LIE

    52 v 48 is THE TRUTH. All else is OPINION and MEANINGLESS

    • margaret howard
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink


      What exactly is it that, in your opinion, elevates roughly one half of the voting public to be in possession of THE TRUTH while the other 50% are just MEANINGLESS OPINION spouters?

      Is it the water we drink? The food we eat? The schools we went to?

      Just what is it that stops us from being able to understand your TRUTH?

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

        Margaret, ignorance?

  28. None of the above
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    For those who haven’t yet read the draft Tariff Schedule or understood it’s significance, I would draw your attention to the briefly reported and understated by the MSM, trade agreement between the UK and South Korea.

    For those struggling Remainers, here is a hint.
    Bone up on the tariffs for completed motor vehicles.

    Please be accurate in your responses, passion and emotional content are not suitable substitutes for facts.
    Answers before Midnight please.

  29. ChrisS
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    At least the Remainers are no longer pretending that they are prepared to honour the referendum result.

    They at last see a Prime Minister determined to get us out and are now doing anything and everything to prevent us leaving.

    They will lose and we will leave. I suspect Boris will write the letter requesting an extension as he is required to do under the shabby little law introduced by the Remainers last week while at the same time he will tell the Commission that he will veto an extension.

    • ChrisS
      Posted September 8, 2019 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

      Question ?

      Will the Remainers then dare to take over Parliament again and try to revoke A50 ?

      • mancunius
        Posted September 9, 2019 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

        They don’t even need to dare. The Speaker is conspiring with the Opposition to allow them to pass whatever legislation they want to with the aid of the 22 Tory defectors.

  30. Think Tanker
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    Everyone knows you can’t negotiate with No Deal off the table. Even a five year old selling her old doll.
    The farce of ‘arguing’ the point. ‘debating’ it, not only shows the contempt the Remainers have for everyone over five but also shows that the Remainer MPs desire to give some kind of excuse for what amounts to a growing undemocratic element, a truly fascist element, in our people.
    These are troubled times when even ordinarily regular decent people who happen to believe in the EU have been persuaded to violate the democracy of our country.
    Most remainer voters know what they are doing. We should accept that and stop engaging in ‘debate’. Sometimes, and it may not be politic, but you should call a fascist a fascist and not humour their utter contempt for our country by suggesting they are misled or not getting the full facts.
    It is an unhappy fact of all nations throughout history that their peoples up to about 45% will side with an invading force, acquiesce cowardly and soon fully embrace tyranny.
    They called them Quislings in and for the ruling class and, traitors for the least powerful but equally disgusting.

  31. Caterpillar
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    As I have previously commented it is also implicit in the conservative manifesto that a deal would include an agreement on the future relationship which would have been negotiated in parallel. May’s WA does not do this and it seems the EU refuse to do this, so there are only two choices bad deal or no deal.

  32. Original Richard
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    Because of the internet we thankfully no longer have to rely upon and accept the BBC’s version of the news and what is newsworthy.

  33. hefner
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, indeed first line page 36. Apologies.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

      I wonder if Martin in Cardiff, Andy and Margaret Howard have seen your apology Hefner? Nice to see you can apologise when wrong.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 9, 2019 at 3:46 pm | Permalink


      Respect for the apology, well played sir

  34. Derek Henry
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Cornyn has wanted to leave all his life the reason he has done a complete U turn in one word Scotland.

    He knows he has to win more seats in Scotland to have any chance of winning. However, the SNP have Scotland in their pockets. The reason the SNP have Scotland is they have lied, cheated and deceived Labour and Lib Dem voters to say they want to be at the heart of Europe and nobody has challenged them.

    Quite frankly it is a disgrace the SNP have gone unchallenged. I will explain why and how we win the Scotland debate but we have to bring it out in the open.

    An independent Scotland will need private sector and household surpluses of around 12%. Which means the Scottish government will need to run budget deficits of 12%. As the government budget deficit = the non government sectors surplus an accounting fact.

    The SNP know this of course which is not a problem if you have your own currency as Japan and China have shown for years. Running higher deficits at times and debts to GDP ratio of 250%. The budget deficit is the non government sectors surplus and the debt is just that surplus moved into bonds so households and businesses earn more interest in their savings.

    So to get a 12% surplus to businesses and households they can slash taxes, business rates VAT etc or increase government spending. The only constraint is inflation whatever they do as there has to be enough skills and real resources to absorb the 12% surplus. So that there is not too much money chasing too few goods and services.

    However, being at the heart of Europe will never allow that and the SNP know it. So they lie cheat and deceived everyone because it is independence at all costs. A faux independence that is being offered to Scottish voters.

    Yet, they go unchallenged because both Labour and the Tories have lied about deficits and debts for decades. They led voters up the garden path saying government accounts operate like a household budget. When the complete opposite is true.

    An independent Scotland at the heart of Europe cannot give households and businesses a surplus higher than 3%. They cannot save more than 60% of GDP. An independent Scotland needs 4 times that to do what they want to do.

    The growth commission produced by the SNP. Was a blueprint to join the Euro. Because of the neoliberal fiscal rules at the heart of Europe even if Scotland avoided the Euro being at the heart of Europe means Brussels will still control fiscal and monetary policy.

    That is how you beat the SNP. You expose the lies in their argument let the Scottish people know what 3% deficits actually mean for households and businesses. What it means for their savings as they are slashed and also explain as part of the union they have been allowed to run 8% household and business surpluses which are higher than other parts of the UK.

    Being at the heart of Europe would mean Scottish households and businesses surplus would be cut by 5% of GDP. Economic suicide and why the growth commission recommended slashing this surplus in the report so they can join the Euro.

    Being a member of the Euro and running budget deficits of less than 3% is insanity. It is permanent austerity. Scottish households need to hold higher surpluses or the IMF will land at Glasgow airport and sell off the place to the highest bidder like they did with Greece.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 12, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      Hurrah…Scottish Independance! Bring it on. I remember that sign on the M6. ‘Haste ye back’. No thanks.

      • Fred H
        Posted September 12, 2019 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

        oops M74 of course.

  35. Newmania
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    EVER SINGLE ONE of the 17.4 million wants to LEAVE – whined zippy

    That is a bit like saying I`ve been selling some peppermint tea on the internet calling it Regrow, and claiming it cures baldness. Some people I told the truth to( it cures nowt ) others I told a pack of lies …but they all bought it.
    Or that when people heard all Redwood`s promises of uninterrupted trading and a shower of gold, their mental process was ….
    ” yup……..actually it will be painful divisive and hurt many decent people but …. I`m doing it anyway ”
    Funnily enough many people did think like this ( my mother for example….sigh ) generally because they feel so strongly about the immigration issue ( to put it kindly ). Plenty more did not.
    No Deal was denied , it has gone on denied , it was a million to one only a few days ago .
    There is no mandate

  36. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted September 8, 2019 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    During the course of the 2016 Referendum, I led the Vote Leave effort in Hook. During the first week, I handed out Vote Leave literature at the railway station and colleagues did the same outside the local Tesco, in the market square and at the Community Centre. During the next three weeks, I delivered first Vote Leave literature the Leave.EU literature to every household in Hook. We didn’t particularly encourage discussions because our main objective was to deliver the literature.

    Neverless, people did buttonhole me to express their opinion. There was no nuanced discussion about the type of Brexit; people either wanted Leave or wanted Remain. It was impossible to detect any hostility to a No Deal Brexit per se although unfortunately there were several people who had been affected by Project Fear.

    The other big lie doing the rounds, propagated by Ms Amber Rudd among others, is that the 21 people who have lost the Conservative Whip are “moderates”. People who are content, indeed happy, that the four nations of the United Kingdom would become provinces in a Federal European SuperState are not moderates; they are fanatics. This is a message that Sir John Redwood and other Brexiteers should be shouting from the rooftops.

  37. Shirley
    Posted September 9, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    I start to doubt the integrity of everyone in Parliament. Where is this advertising campaign to show the benefits of leaving the EU? Why is Project Fear allowed to dominate the MSM? Why aren’t people being told the real dangers of Remaining in the EU. Why are Remainers being allowed to claim the ‘democratic’ high ground, when they are the ones subverting democracy?

    I am beginning to think that the Leavers in Parliament have already quit trying and this pretence of trying to Leave is just that. A pretence.

  38. Bryan Harris
    Posted September 9, 2019 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    Amazing how some people can turn fantasy into facts… and those that follow the fact-twsisters will quote this garbage as the God almighty truth…

    When sensible people can no longer duplicate what was said or done then we surely are losing our collective sanity.. But it is symptomatic of remainers to use deceit and bend the truth.

    Remainers are following the EU way of course – never be honest and upfront when deceit will help you win

  39. Gareth Warren
    Posted September 9, 2019 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    We already had a deal with the EU, when we voted to leave the EU we clearly voted to leave that deal. The idea that the EU would then offer us a better one for leaving is laughable.

    Yet it is also in their interests to preserve the EU export market by offering us that deal or else another country may gain a large competitive advantage by signing a FTA.

    As a brexiteer I would accept the compromise of a FTA with the EU, but really I would prefer a clean break where British industry and imports realigned with the world outside the EU customs union.

  40. libertarian
    Posted September 9, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Andy/Martin in C

    Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar voiced what Brexiteers in the UK have been saying for a while. If the UK doesn’t leave the EU on 31st October, it’s unlikely to leave at all.

    “If it comes to a request for an extension, I think the vast majority of countries around the table would prefer that there not be an extension. We would like to see this dealt with. If the UK is leaving it should leave on 31st October.”


    The problem for the EU is that if somehow we were forced to remain it would really do a very major amount of damage to their credibility and kick off all kinds of ramifications across the 28 . With the state of things as they are, Eurozone problems and Germany teetering on the brink of recession it could deliver the killer blow. Better to just let us go

  41. Ignoramus
    Posted September 9, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    When Mrs May repeatedly said that “no deal was better than a bad deal” who of the Remainers in her Cabinet, and who of the “great and good” (eg Clarke and Soames) contradicted her publicly – at once?

  42. BillM
    Posted September 9, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    It is irrelevant anyway.
    MORE IMPORTANTLY nobody was told before, during or right after the 2017 General Election that many of the newly elected MPs were going to ignore their manifestos and their constituents and work to prevent us leaving the EU.
    They intended to work against democracy, so why did they not inform the electorate of their plans? They were duplicitous in their actions and grotesquely unbecoming of a Member of Parliament.
    If there is need of a reason to hold another General Election that is it. They lied to get themselves voted.

  43. Ian
    Posted September 9, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    Is Boris to loose to The Establishment, and his family

    Is Boris going to let us down

    Is he thinking he only needs to remove the Backstop

    Is he going to wheel out the dreaded W. A

    This is the man that walked out of the cabinet saying , well we all know what he called it, he was right too.

    So why did he buckle at the third time of asking, how could he betray us then, what pressure was he put under ?

    It must be remembered that so did Ress Mogg, both these men knew exactly what it stood for

    How could they do it, how could anyone let alone those two

    So are we realy going to get out, ?

    He has made a start , a great start, by sacking those that did not vote for his government,

    Will he let them back, if he does let them back, we are slaves forever and the big man in the sky will be our best help

    We do need a G A , if Boris does manage to do a quick one, I hope .

    My trust and loyalty will stay with Farage, he alone has never given up never faltered for 25 years, I can not see him weaken now

  44. David Webb
    Posted September 13, 2019 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Yes, no deal is better than a bad deal – but today’s newspapers show that Boris Johnson is pursuing a bad deal. He is morphing into Theresa May. A Northern Ireland backstop (against Article 6 of the 1800 Act of Union, which guaranteed Ireland would never be separately treated in any treaties the UK signed); £39bn that we don’t actually owe; our fishing rights handed over again; UK civil servants never to pay tax on their EU pensions (why do I pay tax?); some alignment on taxation; alignment on state aid; alignment on environmental and labour regulations; the EU court to decide migration issues, etc… This so-called Conservative Party just needs to die.

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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