Yesterday I wrote about the Benn Act requiring the PM to send a letter asking for a delay to our exit date. I did so because I assumed the government would lose the Letwin amendment, and assumed there would be no vote on the Withdrawal Agreement. Those who want to know how I voted should know I voted against the Letwin amendment.
Today we need to think about what the PM should do over delay. The UK has already had two delay requests accepted. There does not seem to be any point in a further delay. The EU is not going to negotiate further. The EU is understandably indicating it does not welcome a further delay request and would not rush to assemble a new Council to respond to one.
I think the PM should set out his legal case for not sending a signed letter, and for sending a clear indication that he does not want a delay. More importantly he should talk to the nation about why the Benn Act is just the Breaking the PMs promises Act I described yesterday which should not be deemed good law. The last thing we need now is delay.
The debate about Brexit needs moving on. It is not a debate between no deal and deal. No deal is a whole set of agreements and arrangements for a clean WTO exit which is the best outcome from here. This is not a debate about the minutiae of customs arrangements, but a debate about the restoration of a free and independent country. We want an accountable democracy. This Parliament is the lackey of Brussels, seeking to block the people’s Decision.
October 20, 2019
Sir John,
Whilst I abhor the wrecking tactics of the remainer MPs in the HoC, the Letwin amendment, has, for the time being at least, prevented formal agreement of Borisās (still putrid) WA.
An excellent article by the senior civil servant using the pseudonym Caroline Bell, entitled āWhy I Cannot Support Borisās Dealā can be found on the briefingsforbrexit.com website which gives a full explanation why the agreement must fail. I urge all to read.
As Boris has now sent the (unsigned) letter as directed under the Benn Bill, it now remains to be seen whether last weekās assurances of the Brussels Mafia that an extension would not be agreed holds good. I am not optimistic. The coming week will, I fear, also reveal yet more dirty tricks from the Speaker and his ādemocracy defendingā cronies designed to prevent Brexit. The whole spectacle is disgusting, treasonous and, for the UK, demeaning. When will it all end and those responsible face true justice? My physical distance from all this does not diminish the agony or the anger.
October 20, 2019
Given there are now three broad groupings in Parliament (government, in favour of BRINO, opposition in favour of No Brexit, and Sir John, alone, in favour of good sense and decency), I think the best way forward now is an extension and a GE. Surely now that the Tory party have revealed their true colours in the most glorious of technicolour, this is the best chance leavers and the Brexit party have of making themselves heard and gaining power. Let BJ have his election. Let him try and sell his ‘great deal’ and his pitch to make this country ‘the greatest place on earth’. If the people are buying that, well then, the game is up. But if the people can see through the shower of s**t, then maybe this country has a chance.
October 20, 2019
Yes. The deal is the same sell out that JR and the ERG fought against and it throws NI away subject to a few tweaks. They should be ashamed of themselves and I look forward to their justifications.
This has only ever been about saving the Tory party not the national interest. Borisā B.S plus a publicity blitz on a bored public just wanting something done has given him a lead over Corbyn and put the Brexit party in the shade,
October 20, 2019
This House of Commons has turned itself into the House of Stupidity. I regard it with contempt.
October 20, 2019
Well said, Pominoz. We are living in a time of subtle deception, when people say fine-sounding things that have the appearance of impeccable legality, but whose spirit is utterly evil and lawless.
October 23, 2019
Hear hear!
October 20, 2019
The Caroline Bell article is interesting but without being able to call a GE what can the PM do? The article correctly identifies the problem as the MPs and their behaviour, but there is no route for this to change. I think the PM should again seek a GE and see whether Corbyn will refuse for a third time, after all the Benn Surrender act letter has been sent, and an agreement is on the table. Corbyn is short of excuses (it would at least be ‘fun’ to see what he comes up with). Alternatively I think the Govt should bring a vote of no confidence in itself.
October 20, 2019
Pominoz
” When will it all end and those responsible face true justice?”
Pom, at some point we will be leaving the EU lock stock and barrel. Maybe on 31st, maybe later.
But what you can be sure of is that the traitors trying to keep us in will not live in peace. Their treachery will never be forgotten and I doubt that when this is all over they’ll dare to show their faces in public, such is the anger.
They’ll victimise themselves and beg for reconciliation….but there will never be any, not for what they have done.
October 20, 2019
Thank you Sir John, for keeping a flag of honesty flying in the Commons.
And also for redeeming – with Julia Hartley-Brewer – the reputation of my old College, Magdalen, Oxford, which alas has also turned out a string of Europhiles, from Hague, Osborne, Grieve and others, to Lord Sumption who practically threatened the PM with jail if he refused to send off the letter asking the EU for a further delay.
Pominoz is quite right. The Remainers and wreckers are awful, but Boris’s “New” Deal is pretty dreadful too, as you and others have pointed out. Boris’s rhetoric has been more effective than May’s, so the MSM have been able to whip most Leavers into a frenzy of support for Boris against the wreckers, but most of the substance of his proposed “new” Treaty is just as bad.
And he has said nothing about doing anything to reverse the shameful agreements leading to the amalgamation of our armed forces into a European Army, quietly signed up to by T May AFTER the referendum, as the top military brass of Veterans for Britain have been flagging up.
Nor has he indicated any intention to end our membership of Europol, or to reform the European Arrest Warrant, which allows any EU judicial authority to have anyone in the UK picked off and transported in chains to lengthy (months and longer) duress vile abroad on no evidence and with no right to a public hearing, thus trashing our hard-won Habeas Corpus rights.
Let us imagine if, under the old Soviet system, the Ukraine had asked Moscow for independence, to leave the Soviet Union, as the old Soviet constitution did officially allow, in theory. And then it had been agreed, that “OK, you can be independent, but you must stay in the Warsaw Pact”….! In a word, no longer a Soviet Republic, but a Soviet satellite state.
That would be not far from the UK’s position if the May/Johnson Treaty is accepted.
October 20, 2019
Sir John
Does the Benn Surrender act violate article 51 of the 1969 Vienna code on treaties?
Article 51 – Coercion of a representative of a State
“The expression of a State’s consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of its representative through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.”
The thing is, the terms of the Benn act were that parliament wanted to see a (so called) deal to scrutinise and then vote on it. The Leftwing amendment scuppered that. What could the PM do?
It made me laugh he sent a photocopy un-signed. Serves them right for riding rough-shod over procedure and precedent.
I would love to see a WTO exit, with the EU quickly agreeing to GATT 24. However, I can’t see the EU wanting that and losing their Ā£xbn…. etc.
October 21, 2019
I would dearly love to know the reaction of Benn’s father to his sons Brexit blocking shenanigans. He must be spinning.
October 20, 2019
General Election now. The Queen should dissolve Parliament.
October 20, 2019
HM has been exemplary in her reign and showed in one court case when her view was made known and the case was abandoned. I would suggest this Parliament should be declared dead by her as it would be in the nation’s interest. This move would be totally within her constitutional remit.
October 20, 2019
Ian Wragg,
I do not think the Queen can do this due to the fixed term parliaments act.
October 20, 2019
facts4eu lists a 10 point rebuttal of the WA.
It is 100% in the EUs favour and makes clear that any FTA would be based on the backstop with us continuing in the CFP, following EU policy on taxation, environmental and social policy with the ECJ being the final arbiter.
This agreement must be killed off.
At the end of the transition period in December 2020 we would be in exactly the same position as we are now.
October 20, 2019
Did you hear that, your Majesty?
Ian says that you should do something, so jump to it now.
October 20, 2019
Ian Wragg
I think she should go further and get the medieval toys out.
October 20, 2019
Yes, that would suit your mediaeval mind no doubt.
October 20, 2019
Yes, and I shall apply for the top job.
October 20, 2019
Are you inferring that ‘modern’ minds are any better or superior in any way ?
October 20, 2019
We should question why our politicians have allowed this situation of a rogue Parliament to arise. Politicians never seem to look at the long term consequences of their laws and actions. They are more concerned about protecting themselves against the electorate.
This all started when we were taken into the EU without electoral consent, and the shortsightedness of politicians only too eager to take power away from the electorate, in true EU fashion.
Politicians gave the decision to the people, the people responded and voted to Leave. Only truly dishonourable and undemocratic politicians would work to ensure we got the worst deal in history by refusing no deal, or trying to overturn the referendum result.
October 20, 2019
It is not the politicians at fault here, although I am amongst the first to condemn them, it is the system.
October 20, 2019
Shirley,
You are of course correct. PM Major did not have a mandate for the Maastricht Treaty and there was no people’s vote for a quarter of a century. When we eventually had a people’s vote the decision was to leave. All that remains for MPs to do is to decide whether to support the WA or to leave without it. To make this decision they should be balancing short term smoothness/risk against where the country’s (democratic) longer term position to make this decision. Yesterday should have been the culmination of this debate.
October 20, 2019
Shirley
Well said .
October 20, 2019
@Shirely,
‘we were taken into the EU without electoral consent’
– Mrs Thatcher was largely responsible for taking us into the Single Market.
Mrs Thatcher was a eurosceptic but with a small ‘e’. By that, she would either have fought hard to reduce the power that the EU gained from the late 80’s on. And / or she would have supported a LONG-TERM PLAN to exit the UK from the EU as opposed to the SHORT-TERM PLAN orchestrated by Boris, Gove + Cummings as symbolised by the BORIS BUS (and all the spin and pantomime that has involved).
Mrs Thatcher would have seen that you cannot bring about something as big and controversial as Brexit without a proper, long-term plan (and leader), above all first building up our economy, including our productivity and then completely leaving the EU and/or returning the UK to how it was 30+ years ago.
This is COMMON SENSE. Part of Mrs Thatcher’s greatness was her own-to-earth, shop-keeper, common sense!
October 20, 2019
Also, if you look at the seriousness of something like Magna Carta and compare it to the Brexit of Boris’ Bus, Gove’s Back-stabbing, the constitutional crisis that enfolded from the pyrrhic victory of the Referendum, and the spin and pantomime in general of Brexit, then it’s no wonder Brexit has lacked the moral high ground it would otherwise deserve (NATIONAL SOVERIENGTY REQUIRES THE HIGHEST OF RESPECT) – and that is to leave with a proper long-term plan, above all, first building up our economy properly.
Mrs Thatcher wouldn’t also support making the City even bigger (if she were alive now), turning it into a Singapore or whatever. Important as the City is, the last financial crisis showed how close we came to economic meltdown because of the City, with continued low productivity being one of the results of a the City (not forgetting we’re way bigger than Singapore, although SOME important lessons can be learned from Singapore).
Instead, I strongly believe Mrs Thatcher would support growing our High Tech & Digital Sector (including services based around these) instead of the City (important as that is). So, like the USA and Germany, our economy is more diversified. Not forgetting how the High Tech & Digital Sector leads to higher productivity, higher skills, higher quality exports (both within the country and outside it), higher tax revenue, higher UK brand recognition for great companies – thus building up more of a sense of patriotism in British Industry.
So, yes Mrs Thatcher, alive today, would be a eurosceptic (like me) and supporter of the City (like me) but would have ensured we diversified more into High Tech & Digital which would in turn have strengthened the possibility of a smooth Brexit, based on first building up your economy properly (and all the rest needed to break properly and cleanly from the EU without trouble back home). (She might have gone for a compromised Brexit as well, depending on the state of our economy).
Ultimately, what you can do politically, is based on your economy / how well your economy is going.
I think ā¦ I might be wrong …
October 20, 2019
Lastly, since Mrs Thatcher hated socialism, she would have seen the great danger of being unprepared for Brexit when you’ve got a Marxist, waiting in the wings to take over as PM, and wreck our country.
Mrs Thatcher would also have been concerned about how being unprepared for Brexit would lead to constitutional crisis (as we’ve seen). And she was old school – she would have hated the sensationalist spin and pantomime of the Boris Bus, Gove’s back-stabbing and so on.
I hope H of C votes for Boris now – but the whole Brexit saga could go on for years because our economy was never properly prepared for Brexit – and as we enter into an international economic climate of trade wars and so on.
October 20, 2019
I agree with ian – you’ve hit that nail on it’s head !!
October 20, 2019
80% don’t think no deal is the best option. This is an attempt to try to prevent that, as you well know. It’s all because Johnson can’t be trusted. Using the term ‘Brussels lackeys’ is derogatory and wide of the mark.
October 20, 2019
Remainers prevent the new Treaty because it maintains the status quo – ie Inside the EU. Labour votes against the new Treaty because they see it as a way of harming the government and the PM. This in turn damages the Tories at the polls and makes a Labour or Labour coalition more likely. Leavers vote against it because it is not BREXIT. It is all blooming mad.
October 20, 2019
Have a general election and test your dubious 80%.
October 20, 2019
Richard – I think you will find that leaving on WTO is the only true option! Yesterday was frustrating to watch for the electorate but maybe it was actually a blessing. Was Borisās deal that good for the UK?? Due to the behaviour of MPs the only way forward is a GE and we have to have one now. I have friends in Italy and Spain and they are all laughing at us – they cannot believe after 3 1/2 years we are still in. Theresa May was right about something after all yesterday!!
October 20, 2019
Derogatory? No, or at least insufficiently so. There are worse and more accurate words to describe those in Parliament who betray oue people to the will of an undemocratic foreign power.
JF
October 20, 2019
52% voted leave and that 100% hasn’t happened because of Parliament, which is therefore 100% doing Brussels’ work for them and we’re paying Ā£1’000’000’000 a month for that. Parliament is 100% their lackey.
October 20, 2019
I don’t think no deal is the best option either, but that doesn’t make me like the Withdrawal Agreement or Remain. I prefer the Redwood Deal – agree no border tariffs and go customs light in anticipation of a comprehensive free trade agreement.
All the Withdrawal Agreement will do is kick an expensive can down the road for a year or so, and we will be back to the same arguments about a cliff edge, having not been able to prepare ourselves by means of new trade agreements.
October 20, 2019
Rubbish, you very well know all these Benn acts and Letwin amendments etc are attempts to stop Brexit altogether and not prevent no deal as Caroline Flint MP pointed out yesterday.
Brussels lackeys is absolutely spot on.
October 20, 2019
Brussels Lackeys is a fitting description and I’m sure most of us on here can think of much worse and equally befitting names to describe them.
October 20, 2019
R J M
No Deal is a made up term invented by Ultra remainers to scare people into staying
Democracy is everything. Implement the vote and leave
October 20, 2019
What if another advisory vote said more convincingly “don’t leave”?
Ignore it?
October 20, 2019
Martin in Cardiff
1) No such thing as an advisory referendum
2) As you have been repeatedly told Parliament voted overwhelmingly to accept and trigger ( surely youre not that stupid that you dont know this) the result of the referendum, but hasn’t done it
3) First you IMPLEMENT the result of the first one
If you dont then you treat the second vote how you treated the first obviously. Blimey you struggle with simple things dont you
So here is what you do
1) Implement the DEMOCRATIC decision
2) If you dont like the result of that THEN you campaign to hold another referendum to rejoin
3) If you won that vote then thats what we would do
Democracy is really very simple
October 21, 2019
Where’s the law which says that you cannot have another vote until you have implemented the first?
There simply is not one.
October 20, 2019
YES, absolutely. Leave means LEAVE as in that’s what we voted for.
October 20, 2019
80% of whom exactly think no deal is a bad idea?
It’s all very well bandying about statistics, but you need to say what they relate to.
I’m sure I could justify a statement showing the exact opposite if I shopped around a bit.
Latest polls show that Leave or Remain, people overwhelmingly just want it done and out of the way…
October 20, 2019
Virtually all polls in last 2 years favour remain over leave. The 20% is the comres poll quoted by agricola which was a 3 way poll.
It won’t be out of the way with a no deal. It will be years of bitter wrangling.
October 20, 2019
RichardM
All polls right up to voting day gave remain a large lead….. you lost ….. best of three ?
October 20, 2019
I’m surprised it is not 100% , but as our Parliament seem determined to screw up any deal in the hope that no deal ends up as we remain I suspect we might end up with that no deal option. Most of our trade is done on WTO terms and the balance is in our favour so it can’t be bad. Trade with the EU is in their favour, much of which we could buy more favourably elsewhere.
October 20, 2019
Very true, Agricola. The Remainers fear their Project Fear lies being exposed, as happened with the pre-referendum Project Fear lies. The Remainer ‘powers that be’ have shown extremely bad judgement from the word go.
October 20, 2019
If you stand for PM I’ll vote for you. Your sensible approach is so refreshing…………..
October 20, 2019
Who are the Eu lackeys. Who are fighting tooth and nail against the people and the UK. Who worshippes the EU so much that they use our own democratic procedures against us. Only in the mind of hard really hard remainers is this acceptable. The people see loud and clear the treachery behind this and are reviled by it regardless of how they voted. Seeing how a cabal of determined and ruthless politicians can work against the people has opened their eyes to the dangers laid bare by these EU lackeys
October 20, 2019
Richard
I don’t think that is right ‘80% don’t think no deal is the best option.’ If there is going to be any 2nd referendum, that should be the question? “Deal” (this one that the PM under great duress has managed to get) and “No Deal” (which is not really no deal, as, at a very minimum it is a WTO deal).
They won’t give that binary question as they know “no deal,” will win.
The truth is, though, this ‘deal’ is not really a deal. It’s just another treaty to cover the transition phase. I am not happy about it as I want a clean break (with no way back, as was promised). However, in the circumstances, I would vote for it, as, at least, as I see it, the 1972 EEC act is revoked as is the Lisbon Treaty. 2 big pluses in that alone.
October 20, 2019
As you say- āThis Parliament is the lackey of Brussels, seeking to block the peopleās Decisionā and a very sound decision too. At least 322 traitors and lackeys it seems we have in Parliament.
Corbyn says:- āIf we vote for a deal that makes worker poor we are not likely to be forgiven for thatā but almost every single proposal or policy that Labour proposes would make workers poorer. Just the prospect that they might get into power and put there insane proposals into actions is already making the UK poorer and deterring very many investment decisions and damaging job creation. As is the dithering over Brexit and an election.
Just leave now please and then negotiate from a position of strength without the expensive handcuffs on.
October 20, 2019
BBC1 had an item on the dire pressures that junior doctors are put under at the NHS often without any proper support and the many problems and even suicides that are caused directly through this NHS incompetence just now. About 50% of the bright capable doctors (they are very expensively training in the UK) are not it seems going on to work as doctors in the NHS, finding better paid options in the city or overseas. The NHS is also importing (often alas rather lower quality on average if you look at the complaint and legal action statistics doctors from overseas) often putting yet further pressures on the system and others workers. What a dire mess the NHS state
monopoly is. The envy of The World the bonkers left say. The envy of no one sensible in reality.
Then we have the vast damage to patients that results directly from this plus all the litigation and compensation costs. Far more money to be made suing the NHS and the doctors than being a doctor in it the system it seems.
October 20, 2019
Leave now with this deal and we have no strength and no chance of ever ruling ourselves, it ties us to the EU taking there rules and laws for years how can you or anybody say leave now and we will be in a stronger position, that’s just wishful thinking .
If we want to deal with the EU on anything we need to leave with No Deal that then gives us a potion of strength.
October 20, 2019
CORRECT. Do not vote for this fake ādealā, Mr Redwood. It is as bad as a surrender as Mrs Mayās, and betrays Northern Ireland
October 20, 2019
Itās in Labourās interest to make people poorer. As soon as people have something to lose they stop voting Labour (unless theyāre virtue-signalling luvvies).
Why else would every Labour government since Attlee have taken endless pains to crash the economy?
October 20, 2019
As for all political parties, Labour wants power and in a democracy this means winning an election by receiving the most votes.
Since they say they are the party for the poor, unemployed and illiterate it clear they want the country to be filled with more poor, unemployed and illiterate people to be able to garner more votes.
Once this is understood, Labourās policies become transparent and explains Labourās switch from being anti Common Market to pro EU.
October 20, 2019
The Benn act is an Act of Parliament, passed by the Houses of Commons and Lords and approved by HM the Queen. But here you call on the PM to treat it as not “good law”. You claim to want an accountable democracy – we have an accountable democrcay, and you are calling it for to be ignored. Utterly shameful, you have no place in the Conservative party
October 20, 2019
It clearly is not good law. It ties the governmentās hands and ensures that the EU have no real incentive to offer a good deal to the UK or to negotiate in good faith. Well done to all these circa 322 MP traitors to the UK. It is these people who are unfit to be in Parliament.
October 20, 2019
I agree. Whilst it is not good law it is still the law and, shows another weakness in our system that will have to be addressed.
October 20, 2019
The bill did not go through the usual scrutiny and without the convention/precedent bending, biased Speaker it would never have been heard.
October 20, 2019
What is shameful is a Speaker coniving with opposition forces to usurp the Government.
Laws are properly made by the Government, agreed to by the Cabinet and based on a manifesto produced for an election.
A Speaker is supposed to be unbiased.
His choices of amendments is an outrage to his once honourable office.
We need an election to rid us of this rogue Parliament.
October 20, 2019
Oh dear. Why don’t you educate yourself on the very basics of this country’s constitution?
If you had any honour, you’d refrain from voting until you had understood these.
October 21, 2019
No actual facts to prove me wrong I note.
Just the usual bluster.
October 20, 2019
There are two sound legal arguments against sending that letter.
One is the Gay Cake judgement of the Supreme Court in which Lady Hale (no less) ruled, āNobody should be forced to have or express a political opinion in which he does not believe.ā
The other is in international law of treaties, which asserts a signature obtained by coercion is invalid. Coercion would certainly include the threat of punishment for contempt.
The real questions are: was HMG advised appropriately; if so, why it rejected that advice; and whether it should withdraw the letter if Mondayās vote should go against the deal, and argue its case in the courts.
October 20, 2019
eeyore
Then again the supreme court, as it calls itself, can be ignored since it isn’t a real court. It’s a political construct created by Blair.
October 20, 2019
Perhaps the PM should have signed it but preceded his signature with “V.C.” (Vi Coactus), Latin for “having been forced” ?
October 20, 2019
It is an utterly shameful directive, not a law, not statute as we understand it.
Nothing like it has ever been “passed” by our Parliament before. Nor has anything been rammed through in that way, with no prior consideration or consultation, no committee, no scrutiny, no debate. This directive was, we are informed, even worded by EU lawyers, and we know it was kept secret till the night before.
This Quisling Parliament may fool itself that it can make the PM send a surrender letter, but it cannot force him think what it wants him to think.
October 20, 2019
Just as the referendum result is being ignored. Buts that’s ok.
October 20, 2019
Utter tripe.
October 20, 2019
Bercow is responsible for much of this by being openly partisan and tearing up long held constitutional rules, who is he accountable to ?
If we presently had a functioning democracy MPās would be clamouring for a GE but they are fearful of the electorate – I wonder why ?
October 20, 2019
I fully support ignoring bad legislation forced upon us by Members of the House who are going against the wishes of their constituents. The reaction of Letwin’s constituents enforces that view in their furious reaction to his actions…
October 20, 2019
The DUP have been going consistently against the wishes of theirs, but you support that.
Explain, please.
October 20, 2019
Wrong: the majority of unionists in N Ireland voted to leave.
October 21, 2019
The claim has always been about constituents, not party supporters.
Sixty-eight percent of Labour voters voted Remain, irrespective of what the rest of their MPs’ constituents did.
October 20, 2019
Please advise exactly who this political cabal is accountable to. Certainly not the people. Did the people elect them as a united force NO Can the people remove them No Apart from brexit what involvement in governing have they had. None. Passed a bill to stop no deal now trying to stop a deal. Their EU masters will not be pleased with them on this occasion. Living within your bubble of a 2nd ref at any cost removes any vestige of democrac
October 20, 2019
You have completely misunderstood the purpose of the last vote.
October 20, 2019
Dioclese
“I fully support ignoring bad legislation forced upon us by Members of the House who are going against the wishes of their constituents.”
Wholly agree with that. In fact I’m of the view that most law is invalid, if you take into account that Mrs May enshrined EU law into ours.
The very thing we voted by majority to abolish.
October 20, 2019
Remainer in Cumbria.
You can’t pick and choose democracy when you decide what you like or do not like about it.
If the result of the referendum was honoured in the first place by May. We would not even be in this mess.
October 20, 2019
Tory in Cumbria
Remind us again what happened to the Hammond Tory Bedroom tax, Dementia Tax and staircase tax
October 20, 2019
No words can describe my utter disappointment. It appears the country is being run by Bercow and his followers. We are now the laughing stock of the world, and to think this embarrassing joke is on television for the world to laugh at. I still hold out the slim hope that the EU will not give an extension, the deal voted down and we get out on WTO rules. Unfortunately hope is fading. All we wanted was to leave
October 20, 2019
The EU will give an extension. Think of all that money they will be getting ! Just how long and under what terms ?
October 20, 2019
This country is indeed the laughing stock of the world, but thanks to seventeen million rather strange people, and the politicians whom they have elected.
Look in the mirror.
October 20, 2019
What is strange about wanting to be a free independent nation?
October 20, 2019
So long as the House can decide the date of its own departure, so long must we endure the divine right of MPs. Turkeys do not vote for Christmas, nor will MPs who now wield power free of responsibility and accountability choose to face electors.
Passage of the Withdrawal Bill will see even this miserable apology for Brexit whittled down, amendment by amendment, until nothing remains.
Yet worse, those who applaud such dishonourable manoeuvres will find soon enough that they have loosed a monster. When it has eaten Brexit it will eat democracy. Then it will eat them too.
October 20, 2019
Well Leave then.
It is genuinely not hard.
What has made it go wrong is four years of repeated efforts by Brexiteers to pretend to everybody that Brexit will be pain free.
Because you know as soon as you are honest about the real problems people will face as a result of Brexit support for it will collapse.
It is not the leaving which is difficult. It is the lying.
October 20, 2019
Andy
STILL you cant point to any evidence what so ever to reinforce tour dribble about the chaos leaving will cause.
So far ALL the things you predicted have FAILED to happen
October 20, 2019
The problem simply is a remain majority Parliament who refuse to implement the result of the referendum.
October 20, 2019
Rubbish. The constant lies have been the scare mongers of remainers with dreamed up nonsense. Apparently we are going to run out of toilet roll now. Good grief.
October 20, 2019
The warning we could run out of toilet roll came from, erm, you know – a manufacturer of toilet roll.
I suspect he knows more about the business than either you or do. The difference is that I recognise his expertise and you donāt.
October 21, 2019
You missed the reply from other companies saying that the great majority of toilet rolls are made in the UK.
October 21, 2019
Andy
Actually thats a bare faced lie
The major manufacturer of toilet rolls used in the UK is based and makes all their toilet roles here in the UK and they stated unequivocally that Brexit has no impact on their production and availability.
Oh and Kimberly Clark ( the makers) are an American Owned Company with 3 manufacturing plants in the UK
Just because you read it in the papers doesn’t make it true
October 20, 2019
The pain has come from the constant petty games played by the remain cabal, those who cannot accept that the majority of us voted to leave and spend mountains of time trying throwing insults and abuse about willy nilly … and lie blatantly.
October 20, 2019
And while you whine and moan we still wait for you to deliver the type of Brexit you promised in 2016. And we wonder why you either canāt or wonāt.
October 21, 2019
Parliament refuses to carry out the result of the referendum.
That is why.
October 20, 2019
BW- you can leave now without a WA but leave to what? to WTO rules – because as far as I know WTO rules is all they are- ‘rules’ – and within the rules hard negotiation with other potential trading partners will have to take place and that could take years- decades
And then if we are intending to leave without a WA the legal framework will not be in place with EU to allow for a FTA with EU countries and probably not for most of the other non EU European countries- So who will we trade with then? the USA? just like that? no chance especially if we don’t get the Irish border right- it will take years and then the agreements will be loaded to suit them- America first – so perhaps we can get on ok just by ourselves – ie. no need to trade with anyone only ourselves alone – wonder where I heard that one before
October 20, 2019
Do you ever buy anything from China? Or the USA? If you do, how do you think it gets here and into the shops?
October 21, 2019
Yes Rose, under trade agreements between the European Union and the US and China.
We are set to leave those.
October 21, 2019
Well that’s wrong Martin.
These agreements will copy across to the UK
October 25, 2019
The EU doesn’t have free trade agreements with either country.
So how do you think their goods get here and into the shops?
October 20, 2019
How can you possibly say there doesn’t seem to be any need for delay? The government has a deal with the EU, wants to leave on 31 October, 11 days away, and yet we have not seen even one line of the implementing Bill that will need to pass the Commons. The job of MPs is to scrutinise that Bill, and to do that seriously will take months – this the biggest peacetime decision taken by the UK in a century or more. Or is it that you are so desperate for Brexit that you don’t care if MPs don’t do their job?
October 20, 2019
@Garland – What scrutiny was there of the Benn Act by either house? You don’t want scrutiny, you want submission to remain in the EU.
Parliament has had 3.5 years but the focus has been on preventing our leaving the EU. Before the referendum MPs were indifferent to EU directives and regulations so it is too late to complain they do not have enough time now.
Our parliament, denizens and system are clearly not fit for purpose.
October 20, 2019
Article 50 was passed into law by a large majority of MPs
Did you not understand what that law meant garland?
October 20, 2019
Tripe. Surrender Act was scrutinised. We read MP demanding to be paid for yesterday and being able to claim child care!
Time for people to shut down parliament it serves no purpose if it will not act on the will of the people.
October 20, 2019
Garland
“Or is it that you are so desperate for Brexit that you donāt care if MPs donāt do their job?”
MP’s are going to be out of their jobs anyway at the next election.
October 20, 2019
Tony Blair agrees with the delay.He sent out a message on twitter saying that yesterdays decision to accept the new withdrawal proposition would have been too spasmodic.I replied 3 1/2 years was long enough, but after realising this was probably snatching at anything to get us out quickly it would seem better to wait.
Can we escape from the invisible but cloistered walls which surround us? We are now seeing the power of the EU and I wondered if we decided to stay , how quickly could we apply yet again to leave.?
October 21, 2019
“Tony Blair agrees with the delay” I don’t believe you š
October 21, 2019
sarcasm ……….. if it’s so easy to spot then why did he write it . A waste of a twitter slot!
October 20, 2019
Shame successive governments did not give scrutiny or even debate to the 5 EU treaties they signed without the consent of the people. You want a 2nd ref at any cost but why are you so confident in winning. It it because that has been fixed too.. What gives you the power to remove the people,s birthright to self determination and self government
October 20, 2019
Margaret Robinson- a 2nd referendum will be Treason May,Borris Surender deal OR Remain, they are truly sickening
October 21, 2019
Please explain why inviting the electorate to give their opinion in a democratic vote would be “treason”?
October 22, 2019
Because we have already voted on that question.
Implement what we decided.
October 20, 2019
The action you Tories took in standing up an walking out when Joanna Cherry got up to speak yesterday was just pathetic and very childish. She represents a remain constituency, as you do.
Scotland will leave the UK and who can blame them. It will be you unpatriotic selfish Tories who will be responsible.
October 20, 2019
I fully agree. The Scots are being vilified, and decent Ulstermen have been sold down the river. This is not the true Conservative Party, this is a rabid little Englander coup, and it is going to ruin our United Kingdon
October 20, 2019
How strange that I find myself in a position where I oppose Parliament for blocking leaving without a deal and at the same time oppose even more vehemently the rotten deal by which the Government wishes us to leave, and so want Parliament to prevent that outcome!
There has never been a greater need for an election but Parliament blocks that too. The madness continues.
October 20, 2019
This was meant as a primary comment, not a reply to RichardM. Sorry.
October 20, 2019
Why should not Scotland become independent? I would not be sad to see them go and as English taxpayers we would automatically be better off without them. I live near the border and once you cross over its immediately apparent that you are in a distinctly different nation. I only hope they understand that the German taxpayer will not indulge as we do. Looking at their past track record of trying to do things themselves, I doubt though it would not be too long before they came back again with their tails between their legs asking to be readmitted to the union.
October 20, 2019
NB You should watch parliamentlive.tv a bit more. The SNP seem to have that effect of clearing the chamber when they get up to speak, especially when its Mr Blackford’s turn
October 20, 2019
It used to happen to the Liberals when they were the third party.
The other two parties have sat through enough and want to go and do something else.
October 20, 2019
Don’t agree, many Scots are appalled by the antics of the SNP at Westminster and their complete incompetence as a devolved Government with much English funding. I walk out of any where when she walked in.
October 20, 2019
Richardm – but it was ok for Ms cherry to slap 17.4 million people in the face??
October 20, 2019
Still no majority in Scotland to leave the UK.
October 20, 2019
Good.
October 20, 2019
RichardM, from a Scot, I also deplore the way so many Tory MPs walk out on speeches by Ian Blackford or yesterday Joanna Cherry. Ms Cherry told the House that pictures will be used in SNP campaigns. While Ms Cherry in particular has shown contempt of parliament with all the law cases she has brought – and will continue to bring -, I believe Tory MPs’ actions make it easier for the SNP to make their case to leave the EU.
Go WTO is by far the best for the UK, and for Scotland.
Reply Many needed to get to trains so they could at least have Sunday in the constituency They did not leave because the SNP had come on.
October 20, 2019
Alison, Johnson is in contempt of parliament (and probably contempt of court) by his childish actions of not signing the letter required by law, and sending a second (lawfully meaningless) second letter asking EU to ignore the first.
GTO is by far the worst option, only supported by around 20%.
October 20, 2019
RichardM
No actually Johnson isn’t. He has complied fully
The rumour is that Bercow will not allow the government to present the EU deal to the house. My understanding is that IS contempt of the Benn act which says that an ext must be asked for ( done) Any deal with EU has to be agreed by parliament . The PM has a deal Bercow prevents it being heard, broken the law of the Benn act it would seem
October 20, 2019
Richard M
Scotland will leave the UK and who can blame them.
Yes please just wish they would get their A into G and stop sponging off of the English.
The English will be far far better off without having to keep wasting money. If they really want Independence then let them give the vote to the English we are fed up with their constant political behaviour. Let them go and sign up to the EU, then they will have a real wake up call. They do not accept ever since the Act of the Union Scotland has only existed because of what they had coming from the majority of taxes from down south
October 20, 2019
There should be a vote for English electoral roll voters ‘Should Scotland be Independent? Similarly another for Scottish electoral roll voters ‘ Should Scotland be Independent? I think the English would say YES, but the Scottish would say NO.
October 20, 2019
Personally speaking, the sooner the ever whinging pampered Scots leave the better. We English can only dream of all the freebies they receive at our expense not to mention their own parliament and their own First Minister. It’s about time their bluff was called and we English were put first for a change but no chance of that as long as the tail continues to wag the dog and UK Governments of all colours, including this Tory one, continues to put the rest of the so call union first and England last every time.
October 20, 2019
The sooner Scotland leaves the UK the better. A lot can be done in the UK without the Barnett formula being taken from the treasury.
October 20, 2019
If we do not get out this is never going to go away. Nobody is going to forget that we voted to leave. If parliament do not deliver Brexit it will just go on and on and on. How can we ever forget the betrayal one our oun parliament. So exit on the 31st is the only way ahead
October 20, 2019
What many in parliament want is to not only Remain but, to do their dirty work for them. They have not got the guts to talk about revoking Art.50 let alone do it so, they will offer us a referendum between Remain and BRINO. Leavers like me will either abstain or spoil their ballot papers allowing Remain to win, thereby giving them what they want and letting them off the hook for doing so. COWARDS !!
October 20, 2019
The Prime Minister has already sent the letter – and contrary to reports, it is signed, in that it is appended to a signed covering letter from the UK Ambassador to the EU in Brussels, who represents the government. The President of the European Council has publicly confirmed that he has received a letter and is treating it as an extension request. We also know that the House of Commons will very likely not ratify the ‘deal’, and there is no further time to negotiate a new one.
Therefore the deadline will most likely be extended. An extension is in the EU’s perceived interests, both the EU itself and the Member States other than Britain. The Member States want access to Britain’s markets and have handed-over their political trade competencies to the EU. The EU wants Brexit to be a farce and fail because that will serve as a discouragement to other countries that also may decide to leave.
Face it – three different Tory Prime Ministers and four different Tory governments have messed up Brexit.
Both the Conservative Party and the Labour Party must now be destroyed.
We need a general election as soon as possible.
October 20, 2019
+1
October 20, 2019
There isn’t going to be an election any time soon. These deceitful MPs know the majority of them will be kicked out and lose their hold on power. The next plot will be to force a second referendum on us, with remain on the ballot paper. Brexit could have been great for this country but the remain parliament in their arrogance has ensured it is doomed to fail.
October 21, 2019
The public has got used to a Party in Government not wishing an election until it is to its advantage.They do accept it though think it cunning but understandable. They do NOT accept their possible Opposition Party and possible choice for their vote refusing a General Election. It is inexplicable to them and so it should be. You can only think the Opposition Party utterly corrupt to the core.
Labour better hurry and ask for a General Election, it is bleeding votes by the second for this refusal
October 20, 2019
āBoth the Conservative Party and the Labour Party must now be destroyed.
We need a general election as soon as possible.ā
Getting an opportunity to drain the swamp before they do permanent damage is a number one priority. How that happens is the issue.
The French have mentioned the impasse in the U.K. as a reason not to grant another extension. Whether that comes to pass is another matter though.
October 20, 2019
Tom Rogers
“Both the Conservative Party and the Labour Party must now be destroyed.”
Indeed, but I’d prefer the conservatives went down as a consequence of changing times rather than revenge.
We must also push for the removal of the SNP….xxxxxxxxx trouble makers.
October 20, 2019
The EU runs on railway lines. It simply cannot bend or relax. It just rolls on. So the next sitting of the EP is crucial and it is not going to happen again until November. The EP cannot be recalled. It works like a computer. You have to bend yourself and then it works perfectly.
The choice is now stark: Deal – or no deal. Delay is not an option – as we are about to find out.
BUT
Having watched the excellent Ed Balls programme on what Britain produces in a day, I can see that no deal is not going to work. The world system depends on freeing up customs borders and trade. A consignment of car parts or a consignment of scampi, for example, cannot be held up even for an hour or two at the EEA border.
If this deal does not go through, then we have got a serious crisis in world trade therefore.
Oliver Letwin and all the other remainers ought to hang their heads in shame.
October 20, 2019
So you want to leave the EU because it is a political project. But your message to me and my fellow Ulstermen and women is that we have to be torn out of the United Kingdom, for which we have fought over centuries, so that car parts and scampi don’t get held up at the border. It is you who should be hanging his head in shame
October 20, 2019
Yes, a lot of people should be hanging their heads in shame. Most of all the EU mafia for having bleated their respect for the Belfast Agreement and their sentimental attachment to putting it above all else in considering Brexit, only to decide at the 11th hour that its most important principle, double consent, must go.
Blood is thicker than water, and territory is not to be surrendered, not at any price, let alone for nothing in return, just because Martin Selmayr says Northern Ireland must be the price for Brexit.
October 20, 2019
Can you explain then, why it works perfectly well for the rest of the world?
October 20, 2019
Your comment on trade is wrong Mike..
Worldwide trade carries on despite unexpected delays caused by strikes road closures bad weather and much more.
Buffer stocks are held.
Alternative suppliers are often available.
Other methods of getting goods to customers are already planned.
The Withdrawal Agreement Mark 2 has little to say about trade arrangements.
October 20, 2019
I did not vote for a trade agreement, I voted for the UK to become a wholely separate and sovereign country again. A competent and patriotic government would find ways to protect and further our national interests leaving on a WTO basis.
But this establishment demand to be able to abrogate their responsibility and throw our sovereignty away, so whose interests are they furthering?
Don’t both refurbishing the HoC, just let it rot.
October 20, 2019
The Letwin amendment makes no deal far more likely in the sense that the risk it is designed to mitigate, of hard-line Brexiteers voting for the deal then refusing to pass enabling legislation was zero; while the risk of the EU refusing to grant an extension is greater than that! Meanwhile, as Michel Barnier likes to say, the clock is ticking.
October 20, 2019
Tosh. The Balls programme showed how much that we import and export is with the rest of the world and this happens very efficiently. Hold ups from Dover to the UK happen already. I have just been parked for an hour at the Thames tunnel crossing with hundreds of foreign lorries because of one accident.
October 20, 2019
Well the government under its various leaders has tried its damnedest to appoint a new people and not surprisingly , this has failed.
I am afraid Sir John it is now time to elect a new parliament, this one is broken.
We are in desperate need of a parliament that represents the leave majority.
Your leader has now made it clear with his constant allusions to his EU “friends” that he is no friend of ours either.
General election now!
October 20, 2019
Hear hear.
October 20, 2019
Agreed.
October 20, 2019
Given you anticipated the government would pull the vote if the Letwin amendment passed I’m surprised you voted against š
What I want to know is why the government did pull the vote. Given the government’s view that they have secured a great deal, surely they would be just as concerned that the deal would be accidentally lost through a failure to pass the necessary legislation? Given the new reality, surely BJ and indeed the people of this country would be happy to see a small extension so that we can ‘get Brexit done’ in a truly wonderful way? And given this new reality, isn’t the Letwin ammendment both a wise insurance policy, and a wise way of allowing Parliament to properly scrutinise this great deal? After all, mightn’t there be a posibility that this deal, given it appears to be such a great one, isn’t quite as great as it seems?
Let’s be frank. The stench of rats is suffocating. Sir John, you are surrounded by them. As far as I can make out, you are the one MP that did not cave in to this abominable deal negotiated by this abominable government. Is it any wonder that you are so marginalised? I have often been highly critical of you, especially in regard to your defence of BJ and his cronies. I am sorry for impugning your character. I regret that you remain associated with these rats, but I now better appreciate the value of having an agent working behind enemy lines, doing all that they can to prevent disaster. Please keep it up for as long as is necessary.
October 20, 2019
What I don’t understand is why King Noll’s followers think it worth scrutinising, as the EU isn’t going to revise it.
Which is a tragedy for Ulster and the Union.
October 20, 2019
The worse case would be if the EU accepts the delay and the House refuses a General Election. The Speaker does not allow a new vote to leave as it is in the same session as the aborted vote on Saturday. They then pass new bill or bills seeking a long delay to 2022 the date of the next election under fixed term parliament law so we stay in the EU unless thereās a new vote to leave at some point earlier. Also the DUP would now support a second referendum so they will try to pass that with two options this deal or remain. WTO leave would not be an option. Then if remain wins narrowly itās all over.
October 20, 2019
Johnson appears to be sacrificing a proper Brexit for power.He should have challenged the passing of the Benn Act because it needed a money bill and proper royal assent, he should have shamed Bercow and allowed the Lord’s to make a point…he chose not to.
What we need is someone with the money and guts to challenge Article 50(3) in the European courts: it is not meant to be a pair of handcuffs and the remainers and EU are acting in bad faith , a delay is of no benefit to the UK.Get remainders in Parliament to pay he cost of continuing to stay in the EU after 31 October, why should taxpayers fund it?
At least Robin Tilbrook had the guts to hold the powers to be to account but compare his suit to that of Miller’s: bogged down in a European in-tray.
October 20, 2019
“it is not meant to be a pair of handcuffs”.
No, indeed. It was intended as a means for throwing countries out, not keeping them in.
October 20, 2019
It is becoming clearer that the only reason this dead parliament does not agree to a general election is that too many currently employed MP’s know they are facing certain un employment. The purpose of their job is supposed to be representing the best interests and desires of their constituencies, clearly that purpose is surpassed by their personal self interest. They should be ashamed of themselves, however that requires a degree of self respect.
October 20, 2019
“This Parliament is the lackey of Brussels, seeking to block the peopleās Decision.”
If anyone was in doubt following Benns Surrender Bill must surely be in no doubt about Letwins vexatious delay to remain bill.
Parliament has created laws that require all public organisations, right down to lowly parish councils that on election every councillor must sign a declaration of interest (be it pecuniary or not). They must declare again if they have a direct or indirect interest in an agenda item. This declaration has to be recorded in the minutes and the councillors must excuse themselves from the debate and cannot vote. Contravening any of the above is a criminal offence.
This law applies to these parliamentarians and indeed to judges as well!
This parliament and our judicial system is corrupt to the core and and proven criminal and yet are the ones making the law! I am appalled at their behaviour and disgusted with the lot of them.
October 20, 2019
What has come across to me from the whole Brexit saga is a division between those who believe in the wisdom of the masses and who embrace democracy and those who sneer at the unwashed.
I am not surprised to hear that the āmore educatedā voted to Remain.
Education is a wonderful thing, but I have witnessed too many people whose āeducationā consists of brainwashing. This becomes evident when they repeat some mantra they heard in their āeducationā or from the BBC but cannot back it up when challenged with facts and argument.
People who have managed to avoid this brainwashing are more tolerant and rounded in my experience.
Many Remain MPs mock āpopulismā, avoid the ballot box and tell us āwe didnāt know what we were voting forā. Quite simply, they ate snobs.
Thank goodness we have sensible people out there. Their glorious unwashed brains will save the nation.
October 20, 2019
They ARE snobs (not “ate”)
October 20, 2019
Was that it? Was that the cunning plan? Send a photo copied letter. I am very disappointed, I thought at least they would push back against the constitutional power grab of Bercow and the Commons, and re-establish the prerogative powers of the Crown and Executive .
October 20, 2019
Good morning.
The law is the law and he should send the letter.
Of course, he should advise the EU and the rEU27 that there is a Snowflakes in hells chance of getting this new EU Treaty through parliament and, that they may wish to not allow such an extension. If they do, then the HMG will only accept the minimum amount of time allowed and no concessions.
The EU needs to move on and so do we. This has dragged on long enough and has neither made the UK or the EU look respectable in international eyes. We can still discuss things after we Leave.
October 20, 2019
Indeed the letter should be sent, though it is in and of itself of no significance. The political reality now is entirely different to what it appeared to be when the Benn Act was passed. It would seem that there is now a majority in Parliament in favour of ‘leaving’ with BJ’s ‘great deal’. To achieve this in an orderly fashion, a small extension is necessary to allow for proper scrutiny of this new treaty (sorry, ‘great deal’), and to avoid accusations of unseemly haste. This might be slightly embarrassing for BJ, but the public aren’t going to blame him for the delay. And besides, he’s survived far greater embarrassments.
I’m assuming there’ll be some more WWE-style grappling over the coming week, building to a finale in which BJ snaps his submission hold of choice on the House, who then duly tap out, our subjugation to the EU safely secured…
Until the Brexit party are swept to power in the ensuing GE, and tear up this modern day Versailles Treaty, with the blessing of Trump, whilst all other statesmen of any significance outside of Europe express utter indifference.
Not everything in the previous paragraph may come to pass precisely, but we can hope!
October 21, 2019
I’ve sent Mr Tusk a letter, a tweet. If he is able to read it,I mean read it, he will for the sake of the EU and Europe, its peace and well-being ensure the EU does not offer an extension and, he will insist the UK leave immediately! There is something in the UK he should not trouble.No-one should.
October 20, 2019
This parliament has set its face against the people, aided and abetted by the Speaker. The issue is more than just Brexit, our democracy has been undermined by those elected to uphold and preserve it. They voted to pass the decision on EU membership to the electorate, anticipating they would get a vote for remain. Having lost the referendum, they refuse to accept that we, ignorant people, knew what we were doing and must be put back in our place.
The sooner the majority of them are removed the better or are they going to carry on their shenanigans and deny us that opportunity?
October 20, 2019
The treacherous Theresa May and her toxic WA pushed my vote away from the Conservatives, Boris is doing his best to leave on the 31st with a watered down version of May’s WA which has had the effect of pushing my vote further away.
This has gone on for far too long and yes I do want to leave but not at any cost, we voted out and out it should be, leave now and talk after then and only then we will be on a level playing field.
The way it’s going the Conservative party will never win back my vote!
October 20, 2019
Are there no decent, honourable people left in the Establishment (apart from those few MPs, MEPs trying to support democratic accountability). Judges, QCs, MPs, journalists, media executives, civil servants and even Archbishops and police chiefs all seem to think it perfectly acceptable to act unjustly, undemocratically, and even unlawully against the democratic wishes of the British people and the soverignty of the UK. Are there none who will step forward and stand with the Prime Minister, the Government and the People and right this wrong?
October 20, 2019
Sir JR
“A lackey of Brussels”
This really sets the tone for the debate and to be honest you might have views on Parliament but you should really set a higher standard.
WTO and arrangement is not the same as the deal and we should therefore have a referendum on the deal.
October 20, 2019
To those democrats who have fallen for the apparent Tory Party strategy
of wasting an entire summer not preparing for a clean-break Brexit, pause for a
moment and try to hear yourselves say this: “Oh! Come on! Just hand over our
money, our fish stocks, our legal sovereignty, our foreign policy and what have
you, and get it done!” Does that sound like you only six months ago?
October 20, 2019
Mr Letwin would not have presented his amendment if someone hadn’t mentioned that it could lead to a No Deal. Brexit MPs should NEVER forget they are dealing with lawyers who are trained to be master tacticians. Lawyers chip away at obstacles, always with an eye on winning their case. They are not friends on any level; they are underhand and will always use information to their advantage, whether gained from naive individuals, colleagues or media. Loose lips will sink the Brexit ship.
Then we have the those who unnecessarily divulge information such as the MP who disclosed how the entire ERG would be voting. Did this individual truly not consider that those who might have supported the government in order to curry favour and get back into the Tory fold might be turned away on hearing this?
Don’t get me wrong, Mr Johnson’s complicated treaty proposals still don’t provide the answer to the simple question we were asked.
October 20, 2019
There are plenty of analyses available in addition to Caroline Bellās -which I havenāt read. All say the same- the treaty is a bit better- but leaves us an associate of the EU. The EU will still control many, many areas of our lives: with no exit clause. Trying to exit the transition period in itself will be a feat- if it can be achieved!
If Boris is happy with this, the question has to be asked…why is he? And why are all the āhardlineā brexiteers suddenly happy to vote for this abomination? It really makes no sense!!
Itās like Maastricht all over again! But this time, the electorate have their eyes wide open and are very informed and aware of whatās going on!
WTO is the only safe way to leave, to be free and cut the Gordian knot! And if it causes havoc, so be it!
October 20, 2019
Derogatory? No, or at least insufficiently so. There are worse and more accurate words to describe those in Parliament who betray oue people to the will of an undemocratic foreign power.
JF
October 20, 2019
I hope you donāt mind Sir John but just read a great article in the Daily Mail – ANDREW ROBERTS: Britain needs an inquiry into how the elite turned Brexit into a humiliation. Hopefully after a GE the Government of the day can ask these many questions because I for one certainly want answers! Many thanks
October 20, 2019
I feel no great loss at no deal being achieved, the best we could say about the deal was it gave us more control back and could be better than being a member. But since we have more to negotiate I expect it will get much worse.
On the letter the requirement to do something your job did not require when signing up to it is slavery by the backdoor, if the boot were on the other foot we may as well have a bill to insist Corbyn attends parliament in a chicken suit – that is no less humiliating.
If as I hope the deal gets voted down sincerely hope the government ceases to conduct further negotiations and delivers brexit on the 31st. I suspect the best approach would be to admit we are in a constitutional crises with a minority government that can neither govern nor relinquish power and ask the queen to dissolve parliament, the electorate will then do the rest.
October 20, 2019
Two things here.
First the Ben act was just plain stupidity, because it forced Boris to put his agreement before Parliament, before a particular date, thus we ended up with Boris having to put his putrid deal before parliament, with no time for any proper scrutiny of its contents.
Secondly it meant we had to ask for an extension even if an agreement was made, because the idiots who voted for it, did not believe a deal of any sort could be made, and did not want a so called no deal, they just wanted to remain in the EU
The Letwin amendment was in those circumstances sensible and understandable.
No deal of any kind of this magnitude should be rushed through Parliament before its ramifications are fully known.
Not a surprise Boris has not signed it, most people with any common sense would not have done so either.
October 20, 2019
What a pathetic childish act by Boris making the whole nation a laughing stock. The man is totally unfit for a grown-up job.
We really are plumbing the depths here.
I canāt see the judges being terribly amused.
Time for another PM whose only act is to properly request a delay while we hold elections.
October 21, 2019
MPs said he had to send a letter. He did. He just also reminded the EU High Command that the Government’s policy remains unchanged, how could it not? A Government makes its own policies. MPs may debate about them and block legislation but cannot change the policy Also his opinion is unchanged which no MP can vote to change.
It would be an unwise EU nation state which sides with Opposition MPs who are scared stiff of a General Election or indeed side with Opposition parties against a Government. There are international binding agreements on such matters. They discuss with governments seriously,only. If MPs wish to be the Government, be in power and be taken seriously abroad then they should go for a General Election. Put up or shut up!Try to be democratic and not technocratic in massaging and perverting Parliamentary procedures distorting and enlarging the power to which they are sensibly not entitled. Many people are awaiting with happiness the retirement of one Parliamentary functionary who has dragged his coat of office in the mud of intrigue un-befitting and grim.
October 20, 2019
We voted Leave 23rd June 2016. If you’ll forgive an Amercanism, we left yesterday. Everything else is a nothingburger.
So, Parliament’s drag riders in our dust, should make haste and pass the deal. Time is money. The EU clock has clicked its last tick. We the UK is an atomic clock, quiet precision.
October 20, 2019
Firstly JR many thanks for your attention after what must have been a very long and stressful day.
Oh my giddy aunt, what a hell of a mess !
Indeed we should have a general election, but can’t because Corbyn knows he’ll lose and therefore won’t agree.
From every aspect this whole farce seems to have a remain stick in every spoke.
To be honest Mr Redwood people have had enough of the traitors babbling quackery and something radical needs to happen.
What occurs to me is that the principle device used by the ‘frustraters’ is the speaker and his biased selection of amendments. This needs to be stopped and right away. The only way I see to accomplish that is for him to be removed immediately, i.e sacked by the Queen.
Boris needs to get himself on the telly in a national address and formally cite parliament as being rogue, and declare a state of emergency since the country is now clearly ungovernable.
Again, the Queen would have to be involved in order to prevent this rogue parliament from sitting.
Boris could resign, but we need to get off the merry go round.
In my opinion John Bercow is the king pin, he’s knackered the country with his abuse of ‘assumed’ power. John Bercow is NOT sovereign, but IS comparable to a bent referee at a football match.
Never the less the key to proper parliamentary function is to remove John Bercow – get rid of him.
Finally I think it would be a good idea to have a nationally recognised wall of shame for the names of parliamentary traitors, and those of the bent judiciary.
October 20, 2019
It’s obvious that the whole Brexit program has been infiltrated from beginning to end by super well funded Remainers all conspiring together, and that the WA which Boris wants is a deadly poisoned chalice.
Boris Brexit fudge is incredibly dangerous and hasn’t a snowball’s hope in hell of working.
If Brits aren’t up for the No Deal fight, it would be much better to call it off.
Polly
October 20, 2019
For all my criticism of Boris, hats off to him though for pulling off this deal whether people like it or not. Most people, including myself, never thought he could pull it off.
Like to give people second chances – he’s got the potential to unite the Tory Party and the Country and keep Corbyn out of power.
October 20, 2019
Good post. I agree
October 21, 2019
I’ve never heard before of members of an Opposition Party sending people to talk behind our back to the unelected Bossmen of foreign entity with whom we are trying to negotiate a trade deal. It tells its own story.
October 20, 2019
The point is to check if āthat peopleā still want to go ahead.
October 20, 2019
the people
October 20, 2019
Well, Boris Johnson called upon MPs to unite behind his poor deal and some of them did so, but he also managed to get others united against it and in a rather striking way.
Here is the Northern Ireland unionist MP Ian Paisley addressing the Scottish separatist MP Ian Blackford:
http://bit.ly/35Q1Kmz
“The right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that he and I come to this from very different perspectives. However, I believe we should be united on this issue today. This is not a good deal for Northern Ireland, and I plead with him not to suggest that what would be a bad deal for Northern Ireland should be a good deal for the people of Scotland. If this had applied to the people of Scotland, I would be voting against it for his sake and for his peopleās sake. That is why I encourage him to vote against it for our sake.”
In my view the DUP are vastly exaggerating the problems with the proposed customs arrangements at the Northern Ireland points of entry just as Sinn Fein and others are vastly exaggerating the problems at the border crossings.
However I reiterate that if the challenge is to protect the integrity of the EU Single Market then that should be addressed at the points of entry to the Irish Republic not the points of entry to Northern Ireland, treating the latter as a kind of buffer zone.
October 20, 2019
Forgive me Denis, but I do not think the people of Northern Ireland need or want any lectures on what is good for them delivered by residents of Berkshire. This is a VERY bad deal for the people of Northern Ireland,
October 20, 2019
Then do give me a lecture on precisely how it is a very bad deal.
October 21, 2019
It sets up a border in the Irish sea, and treats NI differently from GB. It destroys the UK. How can anyone support that?
October 21, 2019
“It destroys the UK” How precisely does it do that?
October 21, 2019
No answer from you, I see.
October 20, 2019
The Ireland problem is so toxic that the only real solution is for the whole of the island of Ireland to be included in a secondary customs union. In this way, there would be no internal border between North and South but there would an external border for the whole of the island.
In other words Ireland’s position should be compromised in the same as that of Ireland. In this way, Ireland would better appreciate the DUP position and reason would be more likely to prevail.
Gerography dictates very much on the island so reason should prevail.
October 20, 2019
After three years of agonising debate I have arrived at the decision that the best deal by far is the deal we already have.
October 20, 2019
Mark W –
You mean the ”deal we already have” whereby we support the EU project financially and accept ”ever closer union” and are denied the opportunity of looking outwards to a wider world, accepting the EU’s control over our own waters and future command of our military forces, etc, etc?
Or are you another who actually still believes there is a status quo with the EU?
October 20, 2019
Who cares what you think, the majority disagree with you.
October 20, 2019
The deal whereby we are ruled by unelected bureaucrats that we cannot remove and care not what the people of the UK want or think one jot. EU Bureaucrats who are often corrupt and think that a one size fits all, incompetent, declining, socialist empire of an EU is just great.
October 20, 2019
This is the deal which involves the UK and its constituent countries being divided in future into administrative districts of a single state governed by unelected appointees in Brussels?
October 20, 2019
The big question is , will the EU respond to a request for an extension negatively. It is a a case of wait and see.
The ragbag of despicable parliamentarians dress themselves in the cloak of righteousness, buttering the truth while denying the result of the referendum and subsequent manifestos on which they got themselves elected in 2017. They smooth the passage of their deceit by endowing themselves with honourables and right honourables while smirking at those who put them there in good faith. The answer to which is a general election cull.
October 20, 2019
Let’s not be too impressed by the demo yesterday. These people are just the dregs of XR (funded by shadowy but powerful people) who are still hanging around the capital and continuing their disgraceful behaviour. Who would have thought that MPs would need police protection while walking the streets of the capital? What has our nation become?
And let’s not assume that 17.4 million people aren’t watching and waiting to see how this farce unfolds. The fact that we are not demonstrating does not reflect the strength of our feelings! We are still 100% focused on seeing the result of the referendum enacted. We cannot call ourselves a democratic country is this doesn’t happen.
My only hope now, probably somewhat forlorn, is that we leave by default on the 31st. That bottle of champagne is still in the ‘fridge awaiting The Happy Day.
October 21, 2019
I so agree with you. The Quiet 17.4 million and probably more now.
October 20, 2019
I might sign English instead ‘The English” in my second draft letter to the EU for I’m definite about English without a show-off definite article. But you know what foreigner speakers are like. They may think I am just one and in just one time zone of thought when I am in all, all at once and we are many. All. We always win. We never stop fighting until we win
October 20, 2019
Not to worry I can tell you – the request for an extension will not be granted
You are therefore free to go to WTO 31st and good luck with that
The EU is not going to take the chance that the English sickness might affect other parts of the Union so therefore they are prepared to take the hit- So bye bye
October 20, 2019
Thanks, Martinz. It’s good to hear something optimistic from a remainer. You have cheered me no end.
October 20, 2019
I do hope you are correct – thank you for your good wishes.
October 20, 2019
Unfortunately, they want our money.
October 20, 2019
Sir John
This Parliament is the lackey of Brussels, seeking to block the peopleās Decision.
Has it not always been. Situation normal
October 20, 2019
Tory in Cumbria how can you say that we have an accountable democracy when 2 3rds of mps voted remain democracy is the vote of the people that is true democracy so your argument is in fact invalid
October 20, 2019
With a remainer parliament in control next week, Bercow and his sycophants will allow a vote on a second referendum and a vote on the question that will be on the paper which will completely kill off Brexit. Is it any wonder they donāt want an election.
We need this parliament ended before it can inflict any further destruction of democracy and the democratic vote to leave
October 20, 2019
With a remainer parliament in control next week, Bercow and his sycophants will allow a vote on a second referendum and a vote on the question that will be on the paper which will completely kill off Brexit.
>
its all being staged to that outcome.
Boris is in on it, right from the time of the 350 on the side of the bus.
October 20, 2019
JR
” Today we need to think about what the PM should do over delay. ”
I think it’s now much more than about brexit. We have a situation in which the government and the country is held hostage by a rogue parliament acting in the interests of foreign powers. A ‘coup’ describes this perfectly.
Boris should now ask the Queen to shut down the whole lot down. Or at least remove John Bercow immediately.
October 20, 2019
Before people post saying “X should do Y”, they really should understand how the constitution works.
The Queen has very limited powers and many of her actions are ceremonial – she cannot do any of the things you suggest. The problem here is the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which urgently needs to be repealed – in these circumstances an election would normally be called by the PM – especially a popular PM such as Johnson. Under the FTPA the remoaners can hold him hostage and produce legislation without ever becoming the government.
The problem with Boris is this: Royal Assent is also mainly a ceremonial role for the Queen, she acts on advice of her ministers, so Boris should have refused Assent for Benn’s Surrender Act so if we end up with an unacceptable WA such as this then I’ll be voting Brexit Party.
October 20, 2019
Rule Britannia
The Queen is the head of state, and despite what you might think we do not live in a democracy, we live in a constitutional monarchy, and the constitution is not written.
Go figure.
October 20, 2019
I agree, 100%.
October 20, 2019
What rubbish.
This lousy government has presented just two Brexit deals to MPs. Theresa Mayās deal – which most of you hated – which MPs rejected three times because it was not good enough for our country.
And Boris Johnsonās deal – which most of you hate – which MPs will probably pass next week. They will pass it not because it is good for our country but because people like you have chosen not to understand what is happening.
The only thing MPs have done is to rule out no deal. This is perfectly in keeping with everyoneās promises. The Leave campaign promised a deal – and a good one – in 2016. No deal was specifically ruled out as an option by most parties in their 2017 manifestos. It has zero mandate.
Perhaps you should be angry at the government instead?
October 20, 2019
Andy
” The Leave campaign promised a deal ā and a good one ā in 2016. No deal was specifically ruled out as an option by most parties in their 2017 manifestos. It has zero mandate.”
Total rubbish.
October 20, 2019
Boris should now ask the Queen to shut down the whole lot down. Or at least remove
Boris and Cummings are playing the game of saving the Tory party while keeping us in the EU. It won’t work.
October 20, 2019
Every single post I have made on this topic is held in moderation. No names, no links, uncontroversial language, short and on topic.
Please explain why ?
October 20, 2019
This is a private blog. John can choose to publish or not any post. If some do not support his case, or perhaps discredit those who would make it with him, perhaps by being too extreme, then it is for him to act as he wishes.
I often find a similar pattern with my own, but I think that it has to be expected.
October 20, 2019
Strange that a comment of a personal nature, which is of no great interest or benefit to anyone is published! None of my comments are up either (yet). Although at least one is of a length typical to me, it is nevertheless complimentary of Sir John’s solitary stand yesterday. As long as he has read it I’m content.
October 20, 2019
Mark B
One of mine is stuck in moderation also, reason ; it’s too long.
Why not stop and think for a moment that Mr Redwood might have had a very long and demanding day yesterday. He’d have commuted into London, spent most of the day on his feet and must be mentally exhausted by the time he eventually got home.
And when he does get home he still finds the energy to maintain this site and write for us.
Mate, cut him some slack he’s surely entitled to have at least a bit of Sunday to himself.
October 22, 2019
Steve
Thanks for your kind reply. I guess you’re right and I apologies to our kind host.
October 20, 2019
I would guess because our hardworking host moderates every single post.
October 20, 2019
I hope the PM is playing a clever game to get us out on WTO terms. Although the new WA is better than May’s, it has most of its flaws especially related to money and sovereignty.
See here: https://facts4eu.org/news/2019_oct_eu_treaty_for_uk_colonisation
I have always suspected that the backstop was a smokescreen designed to hide the horrors that lurk behind it.
October 20, 2019
JR
” This Parliament is the lackey of Brussels, seeking to block the peopleās Decision.”
Did you not see the People’s Vote March yesterday? A million people all Brussels lackeys? I especially liked the ‘Demonic Cummings’ figure with his Boris glove puppet.
October 20, 2019
MH, do some research and see exactly who is funding some of these groups. Yes, there are genuine protestors, but there are also, I fear, many paid activists. It may surprise you how much some of those present are apparently paid per week.
October 20, 2019
Most of ’em probably paid by us, the taxpayer.
October 20, 2019
When you get past the 17.4 m mark give me a nod.
You wonāt see people draped in Euro flags up here in the north, but you seem to think because a few hundred thousand Londoners donāt have anything better to do, that they represent the majority – believe me they donāt.
October 20, 2019
It’s London that finances the rest of the country.
October 21, 2019
Maggie H
Does it? According to ONS government revenues are derived from 3 main areas Income tax , National Insurance and VAT
the working population of London is roughly 8 million which means that 24 million people work outside London therefore their taxes exceed those of London
Youre welcome
October 20, 2019
It wasn’t a million and my ex was one of them. She’s definitely a Brussels lackey.
October 20, 2019
Nonsense figure but strange how 1 m is such a significant number when it is less than the Leave vote’s absolute majority which was apparently insignificant. Remainers don’t do logic, just lies and propaganda.
October 21, 2019
Maggs
Once again the truth evades you
The official counted number of people on the march yesterday was 78,701
Remainers really do live in a fantasy world
October 20, 2019
Everybody seemed happy with the deal so no point in delaying.
October 20, 2019
BJ is busy trying to repairing the con party at the moment with this treaty if the 16 Tory rebel vote for the treaty BJ will let them back into the party and will want you to vote for them at the next GE.
There will not be a GE till BJ has found a new seat for himself a GE could be 2.6 years away as yet, and then there is the problem of getting a budget passed by the HOC next month treaty or no treaty.
The best I will hear from Tory voters at the next GE is, I’ve done my bit and I am hoping for the best after voting for a remain Tory MP, the story will be, I had no choice I had to vote for TORY REMAIN MP to keep labour out of government, as for the Brexit party, they might as well be on the moon.
As I always say after the GE, they deserve all they have coming to them as you can now see from the last GE, it nobody fault but the voters
October 20, 2019
The greater the sense of grotesque betrayal the greater will be our electoral revenge but the more determined the pro-EU establishment will become to nobble the next General Election
There is no doubt that Europhile forces are now at work to smash the Brexit revenge vote at the next GE, even to the point of dismantling popular democracy and I don’t say that lightly
October 20, 2019
How are you defining a “clean WTO exit”?
“No deal is a whole set of agreements and arrangements for a clean WTO exit …”. A WTO exit is no salvation, it is not a safety net either. The nineteen EU contingency regulations are short term and purely for the EU’s basic connectivity convenience. What else is there?
October 20, 2019
WTO. whether temporary or permanent, will be our status on exit, regardless of a exit deal being reached or not. There will be no FTA talks with the EU until we exit. It’s at the EU’s insistence, not the UK Government..
October 20, 2019
Brexiteers keep missing opportunities because they are too nice and are afraid to provoke a constitutional crisis. I wrote to my MP Ranil Jayawardena to advise on tactics and copied the letter to the Prime Minister. Here is a summary.
Mister Johnson was right not to sign the Benn letter but he should have put a grumpy emoji in lieu of a signature and underneath it typed pp Corbyn, Bercow and Benn. That would have revealed the true authors of the letter.
He should go to the Supreme Court and argued that the Benn Act is unconstitutional because of the behaviour and rulings of Speaker Bercow during the Bill’s passage. Bercow ruled that the Benn Bill was not a money bill. Considering that we pay the EU over Ā£1 billion net for every month that we stay in the EU and that a No Deal Brexit would save us the best part of Ā£33 billion, it very much was a money Bill. So his ruling was erroneous in fact. The Supreme Court annulled the proroguing of parliament on the grounds that the Government needed to be held to account. Bercow railroaded the three readings of the Benn Bill through the Commons in four hours flat. The Supreme Court should accept that that was insufficient scrutiny. If they don’t they will reveal themselves to be biased hypocrites.
Mr Johnson should force Corbyn to bring a motion of No Confidence if he wants to get rid of this Government. It will probably take several days before the ‘big girl’s blouse’ summoned up the courage.
If Mr Johnson loses a vote of No Confidence, he should tell Her Majesty that he is willing to resign but only after an alternative PM and Government in waiting has emerged. He could then watch Corbyn and Swinson fight like ferrets in a sack.
The aim of all this is to keep ‘No Deal’ on the table so that the Commons is encouraged to support Mr Johnson’s deal.
This, Sir John, is a case where the end does justify the means.
October 22, 2019
Still awaiting moderation?
October 20, 2019
Nobody will invest in the UK when the gov has no control over parliament and cannot even pass a budget or the Queen speech, passing this treaty will lead to nowhere without a GE and nobody want that in parliament, next July the first comes the vote on extension to the treaty or not and as you know most MPs in parliament will vote for extension up till the next GE.
Loving it hear, voters got it right on the chin, mind you voters deserve all they are getting if I was to vote, I would want full recall of any MPs I voted for.
October 20, 2019
Ian,
I think Lord King captured the essence of this in his sky interview https://news.sky.com/story/ex-bank-of-england-boss-uk-is-neglecting-deep-problems-with-economy-11840141
1) Brexit just do it
2) far bigger issues so need a government that can act GE.
Whether it is vile nastiness or incredible ignorance the behaviour of both HoC and HoL is destructive to the people.
The PM needs to immediately push for a GE again.
October 20, 2019
Now Labour has come out in favour of a second referendum.
Logic tells us that this is because, despite braying for a General Election for several months now, they have a ridiculous sense of entitlement whereby their objective is only to keep their seats whatever the result of any hypothetical referendum.
This also flies completely counter to their last election manifesto, where they promised to implement the Leave vote.
Parliament has now run completely rogue and what they really want is to stay put, on the back of refusing to consult the electorate.
In short, YOU don’t matter as a voter and the “for everyone” element of their mantra really means “for everyone privileged to sit in the House of Commons” and not you, the voter.
In short, Labour will tell you anything to either stay in opposition in the house or get elected, depending on whether the winds of Westminster allow us a General Election or not.
The Tories also in fact represent NOTHING at the moment as a collective, apart from decent people such as the PM and Sir John Redwood.
In short, there is now a severe need for the house to re-engage with the people instead of being overbearing to the extent that this is frankly bordering on the totalitarian at this stage.
The House needs to be thoroughly flushed through. This can only mean a General Election, because a morally corrupt Commons can hold as many referenda as they want, but if they obstruct the result, then this becomes an utterly pointless exercise.
October 20, 2019
Well said, Sir John.
In deed the best result we can now hope for is WTO aka “no deal”, a poor second best is the PM’s new deal and anything else is a disingenuous abuse of democracy to deny the people’s decision.
Whatever it takes we must leave on Oct 31st.
October 20, 2019
Why do we not have proper rules to ensure the accountability to MPs to the electorate & parties pledges and manifesto’s.
A clean break from the EU is an absolute must.
This all about naked Power , without accountability and being subject to EU laws and supremacy.
The establishment have over the last 40 years made changes putting puppets in power because of the views for or against an EU superstate as we have now.
We have a very clever and dangerous (Brussels driven) EU neighbour and internal 5th column.
A rogue rotten Parliament refusing an election is direct proof of the methods powerful people use to achieve what they want.
President Putin was right in his comments.
October 20, 2019
ERG members should feel more free to vote down the PM’s deal as the Benn dover Act has in effect been invalidated. It is against Article 51 of the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties: Coercion of a Representative of State according to which coercion upon State’s representative expressing the latter’s consent to be bound, entails the absolute nullity of the treaty. The Benn dover Act is and always was illegal in many senses.
The extension is off the table, no deal can never be taken off despite the Surrender Act, and the default date of 31st with no deal has not been changed.
As Boris has already tabled the withdrawal proposal and parliament has chosen to not vote on it then I hope it is not tabled again. Firstly, Bercow set convention for it not to be presented again i.e Mays deal was stopped, secondly it would only enable more treacherous and cowardice from the remainer side
October 20, 2019
BJ treaty looks like it is dead in the water after KS looks to put a second ref on the back of it, whether BJ and others in the TORY party will stand for that remains to be seen, BJ might have no choice but to put the treaty into the waste bin.
October 20, 2019
The best way for him to talk to the Nation would be to hold a referendum on the super hard Brexit and shattered country he is now forcing down our throats by threatening us with No Deal .
According the Daily Express ‘remain’ is terribly unpopular and so there is almost no chance of it winning in such a referendum especially now the glittering future promised is so clearly within reach.
October 20, 2019
Newmainia
Do pay attention to reality theres a good boy
He HAS ALREADY got A DEAL, that the EU has signed up to .
So Boris and the EU are one the same page, its only the remain nutters that aren’t .
Still cant find your answers to my question chappie, cat got your tongue?
October 21, 2019
There is a point Libertarian when comment strays into the territory usually occupied by graffiti. I have in fact posted a response to your absurd straw man and ( as is often the case ) it was not published. It us too stupid for serious thought.
Allow me to explain what has happened .
The EU has not power to stop the UK leaving , they can only insist that if we wish to benefit form the EU we also align with it. Our offer was to chop or own country into bits leave the single market and the customs union envisaging only a superficial deal and ordinary enabling details .
If we wish to be poor powerless and isolated the EU cannot stop us.
Clearly this delights you and no doubt you know better than the treasury on the injury to people family and services.
Excellent
October 20, 2019
Why is the Country ‘shattered’? Unemployment is at its lowest for 50 years, 1m new jobs have been created since the Brexit vote, the opposite of all official forecasts. UK growth has been more or less in line with Europe’s. FDI and entrepreneurial activity remains strong. All quite contrary to the forecasts of project fear.
There could have been a case for a 2nd referendum if we knew the terms of a long term arrangement with the EU – ie the alternative to remain. But the EU ruled out discussing that until a WA was agreed. Of course the May govt should never have accepted such sequencing, but we are where we are. The only fair and reasonable 2nd referendum, which would compare apples and apples, would be a vote a few years after an EU FTA is agreed (or not), so the long term brexit arrangement can be compared with Remain (or return as it will then be).
If Brexit is really even 1/2 the disaster continuity remain forecast then of course we will all gladly vote for return, euro and all, as it will have been established that the UK can’t be prosperous outside the EU. If on the other hand those projections are as wrong as project fear has so far turned out to be, then support for return is likely to be as low as support for EU membership now is in Norway and Switzerland.
October 20, 2019
You think Withdrawal Agreement 2.0 is ” super hard Brexit'”
That gets my prize for the most hilarious hyperbole comment of tje week
October 20, 2019
Wow..
I think it is wonderful that many believe the UK could exit.
This is literally ‘Hotel California’.. you can check out.. but never leave.
‘They’ do not want us to leave.
And by ‘they’ I do not mean the puppets in Parlmt, or the civil servants, I mean the actual power brokers here. You can vote in/out/shake-it-all-about as much as you like.. the power brokers never change.
Please keep shouting GE and Second Ref.. all you like.
The ‘plan’ will proceed as before.
Tooley Stu
October 20, 2019
Dear Sir John Redwood,
Excellent start, Boris Johnson sent the letter as stipulated by the Benn Act but he also sent a covering letter explaining to the EU why Delay is a bad idea- the latter letter he signed.
My worry now is that Boris Johnson will “Cave” under pressure from the Inner House of Court of Session in Edinburgh: There is an Emergency Hearing there tomorrow and if the Judges deem the Prime Minister is not fully respecting the full spirit of the Benn Act they will impose an Injunction banning Boris Johnson (or other Government Ministers) from lobbying he EU (inc. EU Governments) to reject any Delay to Brexit beyond 31st October!
Assuming that happens, now is the time for the Prime Minister and all other Ministers to get a lot more Courage – and to risk freedom and careers to defend Democracy to ensure that Brexit happens: People risk their lives in other countries fighting for Democracy- like the late Morgan Tsvangirai (Leader of the Opposition) in Robert Mugabe’s Zimbabwe.
I still believe that -as soon as the Inner House imposes that Injunction – Boris Johnson should make you, Sir or Steve Baker Deputy Prime Minister – whilst Boris Johnson tours EU capitals until 31st October (minimising any arrest risk) whilst lobbying them NOT to grant any further Brexit Delay. You or Steve Baker should then hold fort back home keeping a beady eye on the likes of Sir Oliver Letwin!
Besh wishes – for Brexit to happen – soon
Ian Pennell
October 20, 2019
Rather than all those grotesque contortions, wouldn’t it be far more expedient simply to ask the electorate whether they support the only feasible and legal means of leaving the European Union?
October 20, 2019
Marty
We already did that, still waiting for parliament to implement what they voted for
October 21, 2019
We had a referendum when there was little call for it , now there is a great deal of demand for it we can`t have one.
One might almost think that we conduct this exciting new form of politics only when it suited the Conservative Party.
October 20, 2019
Would this second referendum be implemented?
The first one hasn’t been implemented more than three years later.
October 21, 2019
That, like most things, would be a matter for our sovereign Parliament.
October 21, 2019
Before or after a fresh election?
October 20, 2019
I think the waste bin is the best place for this new treaty.
October 20, 2019
Agreed, Ian, it is certainly not Brexit, if legal advice from Benjamin Wrench(barrister, Brussels) posted on Bruges Group website, is correct, and also advice from Martin Howe, QC, Lawyers for Britain, and the two papers on Brexit Facts4EU.
October 20, 2019
I have worked out how the Tory party works now.
Basically, the PM is the most skilful con person they have, the cabinet are a bunch of utter rogues and all these are given cover by the few sincere chaps like Redwood who are sidelined, yet hold the whole thing together by giving a pretence of sincerity.
Peter Hitchens keeps pointing out our political elite are far more susceptible to surrendering to foreign powers than anyone one elses political elite. We need to study why this is.
October 20, 2019
Tory in Cumbria
>
Tory is Cumbria is not a Tory and the bloke who calls himself Leaver is a Remainer.
October 21, 2019
Eh?
October 20, 2019
The job of a Tory PM is to please the CBI etc while making war against the electorate, which means endless trickery. Let’s just be completely clear about that. How long before the Brexit Party become the same? Probably not long but we might get a few years if we are lucky?
October 20, 2019
Conservative Friends of Europe were advertising for an intern in Brussels after 31st Oct weeks ago, I am afraid this is all staged by the entire political class to con us, none of them want to leave, perhaps Redwood and he is sidelined.
October 20, 2019
Withdraw the Government’s opposition to the Tilbrook case, in which case we are not legally in the EU and cannot be extended or revoked. There would still be time for Parliament to vote for the ‘deal’, which though putrid at least provides a path forwards.
OR
Ask the EU to offer a one month extension conditional on Parliament authorising a GE in that time. Under the Surrender Act, Boris would have to bring this back to Parliament for discussion. It would chime well with Macron’s professed desire to get tough with the British.
October 20, 2019
Sir JR,
Maybe , it is time to release my comment to your “That LetterĀ£ even if you might not like what has been written as your note does not set a particular good, helpful or constructive tone as Brussels actually support the PMs deal
October 20, 2019
I am furious, I just missed out on being able to vote when we were taken into the so called Trading Union, I would have voted against. Now over 40 years later I have the chance to vote to leave this rotten union and I am told my vote does not count!
Pehapswe should crowdfund to take Parliament to Court for abusing ourselves civil and human rights! Civil right because we have the right to vote and have that vote RESPECTED. Human rights, because we have being held hostage by a remainder Parliament and the EU. If my vote does not count why would I vote again in another rigged referendum or an election? This Parliament has destroyed democracy and turned it into a Banna Republic, they will cause mass civil disobedience or civil war. Another referendum before an election would not settle Brexit only infuriate the electorate further. I deman my vote is respected.
October 20, 2019
The Brexit debate in parliament and to some extent in the courts, is no longer about logic or even the debate about some economic short term loss against the return of sovereignty.
The Brexit debate is now paradoxically beyond debate, it has become a brutal force issue of the weight of Remainders in Parliament against Leavers.
This will only be resolved by a general elections, meanwhile we (Brexireers) should sit tight and wait them out, the pent-up fury is growing at the Remaindeers, when elections come, they will all have their comeuppans.
October 20, 2019
Here we have M Gove on Sophy Ridge this morning warning about the danger of leaving to WTO without a deal- there was nothing about this when he was preaching
350 on the side of a bus prior to the vote in 2016- the way they can twist and turn otherwise spin- himself and Boris- liars all
October 20, 2019
Gove is not trustworthy in my mind, and never has been.
October 20, 2019
Leaving the EU and moving to WTO trading will be mandatory unless the EU commission has a change of heart (and rules) and instigates talks on an FTA before we exit. Even the then Prime minister, David Cameron, said that it would be the case, prior to the Referendum. Maybe Mr Gove wasn’t listening at the time?
October 20, 2019
Are things as black as they seem? Let us assume that the EU agrees to the three month extension of the Surrender Act. Bercow has promised to retire and the opposition will have no excuse to dodge a GE. As long as the Tories and Mr Farage are pragmatic this should remove some perennial troublemakers from Parliament and result in a more representative balance. Even the ‘wasted’ three months should be subtracted from the transition period, since the objective is not to enter the next EU financial cycle.
October 20, 2019
Will Bercow keep his promise?
October 20, 2019
Good afternoon Sir John
Lets all be honest for a moment, those that want Bexit will not get it that ship has sailed.
Parliament has made up its mind in collusion with their masters in the EU, that no State is permitted to leave the United States of Europe.
For every positive the UK Government creates to ensure we leave the EU, there is a EU servant in the HoC ready to move the goal posts to ensure it cannot happen.
We have to accept democracy and sovereignty is lost to the Peoples of the UK. They will no longer be able to choose those that represent them, they will no longer have a say in the laws, rules and regulations that dictate the direction of their meager life. The will never see Government by the People for the People. A true subordinate State brought about by a renegade Parliament with its self centered egotistical unrepresentative Political Class
October 20, 2019
There’s an excellent article on the briefings for Brexit site “Why I Cannot Support Borisās Deal” that’s worth a read.
Basically leaving the EU on Boris’s so called deal will lead to years of frustration where the EU & remainers in parliament can do untold damage to our economy and there will be nothing we can do about it. Eventually the author predicts we would rejoin the EU to get out of the pay with no say position we would be in.
The ERG should seriously re-consider their position on Boris’s deal if it ever finds its way back into the HoC.
October 20, 2019
There was nothing on the side of the bus about allowing the EU to inveigle us into talks before we were allowed to leave, and then rigging the sequencing in their favour.
October 20, 2019
John, I always look to your comments for some common sense. Please keep advising us.
October 20, 2019
Bruce I have to second your comments. I am on holiday in Croatia now but every Brit I have spoken to want the result of the referendum honoured and just want Brexit out of the way do that we can get on with other imporrant issues. I am grateful for the opportunity to read our hosts posts.
October 20, 2019
At this stage I would like the Lords Lamont and Lawson (the one living in France) to come on radio TV and explain to us what they had in mind when they jointly urged us to vote for Leave in 2016. I would just love to know what the learned gentlemen were thinking at the time
October 20, 2019
Prior to the referendum I had not seen people sporting the EU flag and blue and yellow berets as though they were ready to die for the EU.
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The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
October 20, 2019
I think people who want a WTO type Brexit are kidding themselves.
First, there is no mandate for “no deal” in the referendum result and second, there is no mandate for it in parliament.
And there has been no meaningful attempt to persuade anyone not in the “no deal” camp to rethink; whereas remainers have never given up their very simple message.
The only way now to achieve no deal is by a combination of luck and incompetence, which in a way is what is playing out now. Maybe in the next few weeks “no deal” will happen. If it does not, forget it. Any delay after 31 October means remain, or a higher chance of it.
The approx 10% of the population who voted for the Brexit party in this year’s euro elections gives a pretty good indication of the numbers on your side Sir John.
October 20, 2019
Yesterday was the worst day since May called an election (which I knew straight away she would screw up.)
There was the exit, just feet in front of us after over 3 long years. Then along comes Letwin with his spiteful amendment which had the dual purposes of humiliating Boris and ensuring a delay so that a second ref can be tacked on.
To go from such hope to such despair was too cruel. What are we to do.
October 20, 2019
BJ came in like a lion and is going out like a lamb, next leader of con party if you please john.
He never stood a chance. All mouth and no trousers.
October 20, 2019
Zero Brexiteers left in the con party.
October 21, 2019
Zero Brexiteers left in the con party.
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Just Sir John (not for wobbling) Redwood? …(and they will be looking for a bit of payback on that knighthood?)…. the rest of them falling like skittles.
I wonder if they understand the prophetic Biblical magnitude of today? … and if they did would they act more heroically?
October 20, 2019
I have not read the act but I suspect that it was not so prescriptive as too require a signature and for only one letter to be sent.
Silly response to a silly law. Levity in among the dirge.
October 20, 2019
‘That Letter’ is not a letter if it is not signed- it is instead a notice and can be for information only- in otherwise it has no legal significance
October 20, 2019
ust to add thoughts on what may happen next week.
It is possible parliament may cancel article 50, they may also run a second fixed referendum “to cancel brexit”.
As a brexiteer I am not concerned, while the public are tired of brexiteer the EU is still affecting our lives when we pay taxes and obey ever more regulations. Worse for the EU their reputation is irrevocably tarnished with the shenanigans perpetrated the last year.
If a delay is forced on Boris then the people will not blame him, and the level of revenge the electorate inflict on labour and conservative tories will likely be severe the next election. So whatever happens next week it won’t be the end of the world.
October 22, 2019
Even the humblest member of Joe Public has the right to refuse to sign a letter he does not agree with. That right to refuse to sign is equally, if not more so, available to a sitting Prime Minister. QED