The tragic events in London

Today our hearts go out to the family and friends of those killed in the knife attacks. I send my condolences. I also wish a speedy recovery to those injured.

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82 Comments

  1. Mark B
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Hear hear.

    I also believe that it is long overdue that we examine the root causes of why these people go on these rampages ? I do not believe that it can all be put down to mental health issues or just random acts of violence, there are too many similarities to the perpetrators of these crimes. Sadly, and worryingly, this and other attacks like it will soon become the norm.

    • Posted November 30, 2019 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

      We will have a long wait. So far no politician has been willing to examine the root causes of these endless murders.

      • Hope
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

        Sadie Khan previously said terrorism was part and parcel for living in London. Yesterday he changed his tune. The man is unfit for office and should be sacked. How can he be allowed to continue?

    • Anonymous
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

      I expect cannabis to be involved.

  2. Andy
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    The ‘terrorist’ was a terror suspect wearing a tag. One of the ‘heroes’ was a convicted killer.

    The Home Secretary will be lucky to keep her job methinks.

    Mind you, she is lucky to have it at all considering what she did in that last one.

    • Edward2
      Posted November 30, 2019 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

      Andy
      I predicted you would use this sad event to make another sneering cynical negative post. Not difficult I realise, but at least you managed to split it into three separate paragraphs.

    • Anonymous
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      Andy also predicted a politician going to prison over a leak this year.

      This is a judge’s fault but all the same a 10 year Tory government should have been cracking down of Leftist judges (and parole boards) who love releasing murderers early.

    • a-tracy
      Posted December 2, 2019 at 10:23 am | Permalink

      Andy, why would “the current Home Secretary be lucky to keep her job”?

      Did she organise his release? No
      Did she choose to invite him to London? No
      Did she choose his sentence and release date? No

      Corbyn blames not spending enough money, how would spending more money have stopped this butcher, he had obviously convinced a senior person organising this conference that he was rehabilitated to such a degree he was asked to speak at the event.

  3. agricola
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    While I am absolutely with you on expressing condolences to those affected by this insane attack on innocent people, I cannot accept the politically correct multicultural veil of denial behind which you choose to hide. I have no gripe against muslims or any other religious group. I believe they should be allowed to conduct their lives within the laws of the UK without sanction. However politicians, the press and media seem terrified of naming the perpetrators, whose behaviour goes against the tenets of just about any religion I have come across, until that is they are convicted and sentenced. This one I learn had just been released from jail for a previous terrorist offence. Question, why was he not immediately deported. It is the failure of the political class that has allowed him to offend twice with such terrible consequences. The public deserve better.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 12:11 am | Permalink

      Agricola I totally agree with your comments. We the public are sick of our weak politicians and the soft justice system these days. How many more deaths and why if not deported was he given automatic release after serving only half his sentence and then managed this atrocity while wearing a tag? It stinks.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      Why was he not deported?

      Probably, because like nearly all these attackers here, he is born-and-bred British?

      And so to where would he be sent?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

        He was born in Stoke-on-Trent in 1991, I read.

        That’s six years before the Labour government of Tony Blair, incidentally.

        I don’t have the information as to under which government his parents entered the country – but search is free.

  4. Dominic
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Selfless bravery. The last politician to display this? Margaret Thatcher. Since then, it’s all been done for both this nation, our people and our values

    I’d just like to extend my thanks to Labour for turning our country into a dangerous place to live

    • Dominic
      Posted November 30, 2019 at 9:40 am | Permalink

      ‘it’s all been downhill for both’

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      I understand that this attacker was born here before Labour came to power in 1997.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

        and?

    • Cheshire Girl
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      Dominic:

      I agree with your first paragraph.

      However, I have to point out that the Conservatives have been in power for ten years, and some of these atrocities have taken place on their watch. As an election looms, they are vowing all kinds of things to tackle this problem. One wonders why they haven’t done it before.

      Sadly, as a Conservative voter, I don’t believe them.

  5. JoolsB
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    When will politicians ever learn? The murderer was a known terrorist released from prison and let loose on the streets to do what he did and now a parent, husband, wife, brother or sister will have to spend the rest of their lives grieving for the totally unnecessary loss of their loved ones.

    Sort prison sentences out and stop all this early release especially for terrorists, murderers and rapists. Life should mean life.

    • Grahame ASH
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

      I totally agree with you (JoolsB), but while the Establishment remains powerful, nothing will be done. The PC brigade will come down on the side of the terrorists as their human rights apparently exceed those of the law abiding Brits.

      The politicians are telling us what they will do to stop the rot – the rot they had the opportunity to stop over the last few decades, but nothing has been done.

      All talk from the politicians now, as it is GE time, to persuade the electorate to vote for them. … and then inactivity.

      We know the patriotic views of the leader of the Labour party. The Tories talk but do nothing (Previous Home Secretaries – Amber Rudd and Theresa May (but didn’t) had the opportunities. And the LibDems promote Human rights in their own PC “democratic” way.

      Who else is there?

  6. turboterrier
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Second that Sir John.

    The country must never take its eye off of the risk and lower its guard. Praise to al those who went to the scene and gave their assistance wether in uniform or not.

  7. Javelin
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    I have a few legal questions following on from what I read.

    I understand the the attacker was invited by a University of Cambridge led organisation called Learning Together to an alumni conference by London Bridge.

    At my questions are

    1) Why was he invited to an alumni conference?
    2) Who invited him?
    3) How did Learning Together get his contact details?
    3) Who paid for his fares?
    4) What were the attackers bail conditions on travel to London?

    I’m guessing here, but I suspect there is some link between HM Parole and Uni of Cambridge that might not be entirely above board and has put the public in mortal danger.

    • a-tracy
      Posted December 2, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

      You’ll never get the answers to this Javelin, the public sector decision-makers never wants to take responsibility for their actions. We are told they have superior intelligence to most of us and we have to accept their judgement without questions, even though in this case they put innocents at risk. Why didn’t an event with tagged ex-prisoners have a member of police there?

      The Guardian even wrote today “So is Boris Johnson right to blame Labour?
      No. It is true that Labour’s law change of 2008 created the type of extended sentence that allowed Khan to be released automatically. But Labour had also created a viable alternative, in the indeterminate IPP sentence, which required parole board oversight.” So who do the Guardian hold responsible?

  8. APL
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    JR: “Today our hearts go out to the family and friends of those killed in the knife attacks.”

    “Boris Johnson has condemned the early release of criminals after it emerged that the man who carried out the latest London Bridge terror attack was a convicted Islamist who had been freed from prison on an electronic tag.” — Telegraph.

    Which party has been in power for the last ten years?

    • Fred H
      Posted November 30, 2019 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

      Labour introduced the release on licence after half sentence served. A tagged terrorist was allowed to travel to London Bridge of all places, attend a meeting with lots of others, no search of attendees, no armed police adjacent. Words fail me. The victims and families bear the result.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

        That release was not intended to be unconditional or unsupervised.

    • Ken Leach
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 6:57 am | Permalink

      A good question, APL. And which party has spent the last ten years slashing police numbers?

  9. Anonymous
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    This convicted terrorist (sentenced to 8 years having plotted to bomb the Stock Exchange to cause death and chaos) was allowed to roam free with a tag on.

    Oops. Bit of mistake. Lessons will be learned.

    Thank goodness they seem too thick to stage their attacks in areas outside of cities where there is little to no armed police coverage and they could go on the rampage for hours.

    It is pure luck rather than anything else that is protecting us. Clearly not our penal system.

    RIP to those deserving of it.

    • Grahame ASH
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

      “Lessons will be learned.” Not wishing to criticise your valued comment. but this is what I read and hear every time a terrorist attack occurs.

      Yes they may learn but when is the Govt and the Authorities going to introduce measures to control these situations effectively.

  10. Ian Wragg
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Congratulations to the police for acting so robustly.
    These people must understand that they will die trying to intimidate the public.
    Sad that innocent people had to die.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted November 30, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

      Just confirmed he was a convicted terrorists out on eary release witb a tag.
      Once again the public being let down by the justice system.

  11. DaveM
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    I look forward to hearing some strong words and policies from Boris and Priti. When can we expect that?

  12. Lifelogic
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Indeed my deepest sympathy to all who have suffered from this dreadful tragedy.

    It was however very clearly an entirely avoidable tragedy as are so many other murders, violent and other attacks that are committed by early released prisoners, people on remand and people with known violent mental health issues who are so often released into the community. It is clearly a very difficult balance to draw, but my impression is that the state’s emphasis is far more on saving money (and protecting criminals rights to avoid being sued) than on actually saving innocent people’s lives and actually protecting the public. What economic calculations do they make and what are the statistics and saving here?

    Perhaps Theresa May and Javid can explain how their departments made these calculations? I suspect that Priti PATEL will be rather better at making this judgement – let us hope so.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 30, 2019 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

      Releasing a murderer who has perhaps murdered the only person they ever really wanted to murder is surely much safer than releasing someone who has shown that, for perverted religious reasons, or reasons of mental heath issues is quite capable of murdering lots of people at random (or of being persuaded so to do). This for no rational reason. The two cases should be judged very differently indeed by the justice system in terms of risk to the public – are they? It seems perhaps not.

  13. Ian @Barkham
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Agreed

  14. Anonymous
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    ***Correction***

    The suspect was sentenced to 16 years and served less than half that.

    Ten years of Tory government.

    It’s about time those on parole boards were sent to prison for the amount of fatal errors they’ve made and the total distrust in the penal system they’ve caused.

    There will be outcry if the police officer is subject to any disciplinary or legal action over this.

  15. BillM
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Very sad for the families indeed. Especially now we know that the vile terrorist perpetrator was one of the gang who carried out a similar attack in 2011 and was released after just 7 years after a sentence of 16 years in jail.
    What is wrong with the judiciary? It is time they were made to stand for election to their positions so that they are accountable to the Britsh public. They are too soft in the head and too gullible to sob stories to protect us from such murderous people.

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

      And they are largely invisible. We have a lot to learn from the USA which is a far more open and democratic society. They disclose information quickly when events like this occur.

      Here it is clear that considerable effort is applied to keeping people in the dark for as long as possible. I’m sick of listening to police and others who in all manner of circumstances trot out the phrase ‘it would be inappropriate for me to comment while…..’. In other words they can keep their inactivity, weaknesses or failures hidden.

      And no-one challenges it. Subject closed; it’s move on you ‘people’.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

        It’s worth remembering, that whatever the frequency of these incidents here, the pro-rata intentional homicide rate in the US is about six times greater than it is in the UK, and than in the European Union generally.

        You are far safer here on average.

        • Fred H
          Posted December 1, 2019 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

          marty – – thats a great comfort.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted December 1, 2019 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

            …so maybe the US has rather more to learn from us and from the European Union than vice versa as claimed above?

          • BillM
            Posted December 2, 2019 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

            Hmm! So what about the number of murders in London now surpassing those of NY? Numbers are irrelevant unless you factor in the size of the populations of the UK v the USA.

  16. Stephen Priest
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    I have been expecting a terrorist outrage. Last time it seemed to help Corbyn.

  17. Longinus
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Platitudes won’t prevent similar atrocities. Why was he released from prison after only serving 8 years? When are politicians going to do something effective to prevent future islamic attacks?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 4:23 am | Permalink

      Why was he released? I assume they just thought it would save money. It also seems he was released automatically on some time served basis without any risk (to the public) assessment by the parole board or similar even being done.

  18. margaret
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    How are we going to stop these knife attacks? Films and TV series inform the shallow headed in weaponry with other sharp objects other than knives being used to injure. Is this need to maim and kill a mental illness or simply an unbalanced perception of the world.

  19. The Prangwizard
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    I would support that but for the avoidance of doubt I’d like to record I have no sympathy for the killer nor his family, his friends or associates.

    He got what he deserved, the same should be meted out to all those like him. No equivocation

  20. Shirley
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    I understand this terrorist was an immigrant. If so, why wasn’t he deported? Why do we continue to put British lives at risk, just because deportation upsets the ‘human rights ‘ brigade. What about the rights of the majority to live in safety?

    • Garland
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 7:01 am | Permalink

      Shirley, he was not an immigrant. He was born in Stoke-on-Trent.
      However, , the man who heroically rushed him and subdued him was an immigrant, a chef from Poland.

      • SecretPeople
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

        I read there were around 5 men who intervened – possibly most were attending the conference itself. In fact I thought I recognised one of them, but only one other – a former murderer – has been named.

    • Cheshire Girl
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Because we have weak and ineffective Politicians, and if we complain, we are labelled ‘racist’. That very soon shuts down the debate.

  21. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    From the limited information available so far this looks much more like a mental health issue than a terrorist event.

    Although how sound of mind anyone who is prepared to kill or die for their indoctrinated beliefs is should be the subject of emergency debate well in advance of the climate bandwagon.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

      Surely anyone who kills and injures innocent people (call it terrorism) must have a mental issue – but should either suffer capital punishment or be locked up for life.

  22. Lifelogic
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    So Labour would make the Swansea “Lagoon” project go ahead. This project is so absurd that
    it almost makes HS2 look sane. The Labour chap on Question Time even thought is was a new technology. What sort of idiot thinks tidal power is a new technology? Does he know how little power they give per square metre, how they silt up, the fact that the power is not on demand and varies with the spring and need tides, the huge cost of the walls …… we are run by idiots already but even May’s government had the sense to say no to this total stupidity.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 4:25 am | Permalink

      Neap tides.

  23. Brigham
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    If we had the death penalty for terrorism, some people now dead would still be alive.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 4:26 am | Permalink

      And lots of innocent people found guilty of Irish terrorism would be dead.

      • Brigham
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

        found guilty

    • tim
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      Brigham- If we had the death penalty for terrorism, some terrorist now alive would now be dead.

  24. Anonymous
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    *** Correction to correction***

    A parole board wasn’t even consulted. Just what the hell is going on ?

    We are getting all sorts of state interference but when it comes to a REAL terrorist they are as soft as clarts on them.

    One suspects the War on Terror is a cover for state control of the masses.

  25. Hope
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Agreed.

    Utterly tragic, utterly unnecessary and utterly your govts fault. What have many us been saying about the weak criminal justice system? Last week Con Woman article highlighting your govts failing policies. Two cases where thieves get imprisoned longer than violent rapists.

    Left wing EU fanatic Gauke, supported by both Clarke and Grieve in parliament, was going to let out one of the most serious rape offenders, Warbouys, until stopped by action taken by Mayor Khan!

    However, your party and govt, once again, should hang its head in shame. Unnecessary because of your weak EU left wing policies. We learn the useless EU fanatic Ken Clarke stopped indeterminate sentencing following ECHR rulings. How many times must this occur before your govt does something? Empty words of sadness is not good enough. One of those tackling the terrorist was a murderer released early, after 15 years! The family of that victim appalled.

    We had the Manchester bombing because of your weak insipid govt allowing terrorists to go in and out our country. The public realised that cutting twenty thousand police officers did effect our safety and crime contrary to Mayhab’s road to decimating the police force. This effected the election outcome in 2017.

    No more words from your govt are required, substantive action to put victims and public before offenders. Virtue signalling to offenders must stop. Life should mean literally life not a few years.

  26. mancunius
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    The Home Office clearly needs to learn lessons. This terrible incident shows that 1) such fanatics should be clearly identified as such and not ever released until certain, genuine rejection of their beliefs can be definitely established, and 2)electronic tags are not a secure method of release for such potentially violent prisoners. It may encourage them to keep a nighttime curfew, but it is perfectly possible for a known religious fanatic who hates this country and its people to roam and kill at will during the daytime, a thought that seems not to have occurred to whoever released him.
    And so two innocent victims are now dead as a result of an error of judgement. Who was in charge in the Home Office when the current criteria for release on e-tag were enacted in the prison system? Who was in charge at the prison that released the killer? And to what extend is the HO’s perceived need to comply with the HRA responsible for this?

    • mancunius
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

      PS I realize from subsequent coverage of the legal background that this is the result of the previous (Labour) government’s law enacting unquestioning release halfway through a sentence, that this was restricted by the Cameron government, shortly after this terrorist’s appeal against an indeterminate sentence was successful, but the restriction could not be retrospectively applied.
      The government should find a way of passing a law that retrospectively overrides the right of those imprisoned for terrorist offences before 2011/12 for early release. Nor should such a decision be left to the Parole Board in the case of terrorists.

  27. eleanor justice
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    Will the policeman who fired the shot face a charge I would not be surprised. He should have a medal.

  28. The Prangwizard
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    We need in our justice system to move to a punishment system and away from a rehabiltation one. Sentences must be lengthened for all offences, even minor ones.

    The biggest deterrent of course is the fear of getting caught but automatic remission is almost an encouragement to criminals to take a chance.

  29. Jack Falstaff
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    After the shooting of that innocent Brazilian gentleman in Stockwell after he was shot dead, having been mistaken as a terrorist all those years, ago I mistakenly blamed Cressida Dick.
    What now appears obvious is that she has been let down time and again both by the judicial system releasing dangerous elements early and personnel at lower levels who are not trained properly in terms of identifying either persons of certain backgrounds or higher grade security situations.
    In the case at hand now, just put two and two together and realise that the organised event that the culprit attended was a person convicted for an attempted attack on the London Stock Exchange who was out on licence, tagged and within the close proximity of the scene of his previous historical attempted attack.
    The police were evidently there within seconds but the screening and potential danger level were not given due consideration beforehand.
    Apparently this chap even actually spoke at the event. Why was he not checked for possession of weapons on entering the venue of the debate given the context of so many convicted persons in attendance and his/their criminal history?
    Thankfully, some very brave fellow former prisoners there were those who tried to stop this and succeeded in further harm being done. They should be cited for bravery.

  30. Edward2
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    These sad events are more of a comment on our justice system as anything else.
    Plainly this man should not have been free to walk the streets.

    In the business world there is the possibility of charges of corporate manslaughter in cases where serious mismanagement leads to a serious occurrence.
    It is time to examine why the justice profession seem to be outside those laws.

    • Dominic
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 10:53 am | Permalink

      Absolutely. The private sector is targeted ruthlessly with the most penal of laws while the State and their dependents enjoy absolute immunity from criminal prosecution

      Welcome to Labour’s client state operated under licence by the Conservative Party.

    • tim
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

      Edward2- possibility of charges of corporate manslaughter in cases where serious mismanagement leads to a serious occurrence. A BIGGER DETERENT, loss of job AND pension!

  31. rick hamilton
    Posted November 30, 2019 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    This event reminds me what a good idea Guantanamo was and why the bleeding heart liberal Obama never shut it down, despite loud election promises. I am surprised that nobody in a tougher country than ours has suggested a hard labour camp in Siberia for convicted terrorists of all nationalities. I’m sure Mr Putin would welcome the investment.

    • Mitchel
      Posted December 2, 2019 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      Whilst Mr Putin certainly knows how to deal with terrorists,I doubt whether he will take you up on the offer-he doesn’t need the money;he’s sitting on reserves the equivalent of 9% of GDP!

  32. RichardM
    Posted December 1, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    These sad events are more of a comment on the chronic underfunding of the criminal justice system, which is in crisis. This is from barristers who actually work in it.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

      Rich – – barristers wanting more money – quelle surprise.

      • RichardM
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        No the criminal justice system needs more money. You dont gave to take my word for it, read the truth from the author of the tweets Johnson ripped off and distorted today for party political purposes.

        The innocent convicted
        The guilty acquitted
        Victims and witnesses betrayed
        Courts closed
        Huge delays
        No compensation for the wrongly imprisoned

        Our criminal justice system is in crisis. I have witnessed this crisis as a juror this year on 2 class A supply ‘county lines’ drug cases that had occurred in 2016. 2 YEARS delay in coming to trial. All down to chronic underfunding.

  33. MickN
    Posted December 1, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    When the government was trying to stop people leaving the country to join isis I said that they should have been laying on coaches and planes instead to assist them, but telling them that they would have their citizenship revoked and not let back into the country.
    Two innocent people are now dead and several injured and they will not be the last. When will someone grow a pair and stand up to the screaming human rights idiots who defend this cancer in our midst?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      It’s not clear what exactly you mean, but do you perhaps remember that Serbia was bombed, and subject to a multinational force under the UN, when it tried to treat one religious group differently from the rest of the population?

      Are you seriously advocating that the UK do the same, and invite an identical international response?

      Because that is rightly what would happen.

      • MickN
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

        I think it is very clear what I mean. When isis started kicking off in the middle east people from this country mainly young and stupid were finding their way to join forces with them to fight or perpetuate their numbers. Efforts were made to stop them leaving the UK whereas I think we should have facilitated their leaving. Anyone with the mindset that wants to join up and fight with the masked beheading animals that are isis has no place in our country.

      • mancunius
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

        It is perfectly clear (except to yourself) that MickN means exactly what he has written: that ISIS terrorists should be deported from the country, and their nationality revoked.
        You try to draw a hysterical and inflammatory parallel between that very reasonable measure (already enacted in many cases by several western democracies, including France, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Austria and Sweden) and the mass slaughter by Serbians of Albanian muslim prisoners during the civil war.
        Listening does not seem to be your strongest suit.

      • Mitchel
        Posted December 2, 2019 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

        Martin in Cardiff,

        Re the bombing of Serbia was it UN approved or was it NATO acting unilaterally?-I seem to remember the then Russian Foreign Minister,Evgeny Primakov,on hearing about it,ordering his plane to turn round(he was en route to the USA)and returning to Moscow in disgust.It was a seminal moment as Russia then totally changed it’s foreign policy stance towards the West,adopting the so-called Primakov Doctrine.

  34. Iain Gill
    Posted December 1, 2019 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    apparently the police are only allowed to take a head shot if there is a corresponding order from a senior officer in place about terror threats, that needs to change.

    someone wearing a suicide belt, or suspected suicide belt, needs a double tap to the head, not body shots. far too much risk with body shots they will be able to set off the explosive.

    I was going to be critical of the coppers, but apparently thats the way they are trained, and thats the orders they have.

    our special forces wouldnt have hesitated before putting bullets into his skull.

    we are still very vulnerable to a Mumbai style terror attack, with terrorists basically undertaking section attack tactics. none of our police forces are up to taking that on, and military help will take too long to get there in most of the country.

    as for letting people convicted of terror offences out, I would be letting them out for the first 5 years to live in an isolated community, say a remote island, not allowed to leave, and gradually extend their freedom of movement. not straight to position where they can travel into major cities.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 1, 2019 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

      what” – -you’d inflicted them on a small isolated group, who are there because they want out of congested society. Madness… After they were all killed the terrorist would escape by whatever boat or contact with the mainland they had arranged.
      Capital punishment if they survived the ‘double tap’.

      • Iain Gill
        Posted December 1, 2019 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

        well I am in favour of longer sentences for terror offences.

        I am in favour of enforcing “full sentence” for terror offences, not early release.

        but if we do let any out, then their release needs to be gradual, and lifetime monitoring thereafter.

  35. Iain Gill
    Posted December 1, 2019 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Really the civilians who took the terrorist on should have medals awarded immediately. Cut through the nonsense, and just announce medals straight away.

    I should check, but did the civilians who took on the Glasgow airport terrorists get medals? if not why not?

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

    Promoted by David Edmonds on behalf of John Redwood both of 30 Rose Street Wokingham RG40 1XU

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