No delay to full exit at end of 2020

It is welcome and necessary for the government to rule out any further delay to our exit from the EU. The EU agreed to a Free Trade Agreement in principle. It is quite possible to produce one in time. If the EU thinks we will delay again they have an incentive not to agree anything.

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  1. Ian Wragg
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    We’ve heard it all before. July is the deadline for agreeing an extension and unless we roll over to all the EU demands they won’t discuss trade.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:04 am | Permalink

      That is surely right. Just leave now.

    • Peter
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:13 am | Permalink

      Yes, we have heard ‘no extensions’ before. This time delay cannot be blamed on a Remain majority.

      The key issue is whether Johnson wants to simply get the Brexit issue out of the way and get on with other matters, or whether he is really prepared to drive a hard bargain.

      • Simeon
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

        For BJ, Brexit has served his purpose; he’s PM. When he was umming and ahhing about which side to support in the referendum, he did his sums and calculated campaigning for leave was the best way to no. 10. With this election, Brexit is well and truly done; BJ is PM for another five years.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 11:24 am | Permalink

      They aren’t demands.

      They are helpful suggestions, as to how the UK can avoid wrecking both its economy and the Union with NI and with Scotland.

  2. Peter Wood
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,

    The best development yet from the Boris!

    Next, can you tweak the dreadful WA to remove ECJ and non-existent expenses?

    • Simeon
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      No, they can’t! It’s an agreement with the EU. Unilateral tweaks won’t cut it! And besides, BJ is perfectly happy with what he’s got.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

        Simeon ….. you can’t know that. He is smarter than almost everybody gives him credit for. Further surprises probably in due course.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

          Cummings is the brains of the operation. BJ is Eton and Oxford on account of his background. He has plenty of knowledge, but that is not understanding.

          You are of course right. I can’t know for sure. But there are fundamental givens that limit the scope of what is possible. I’ve always acknowledged that there is a tiny, tiny chance that Brexit would be done properly eventually, even if the WA is ratified. But, a) it makes no sense to ratify the WA if you are going to do Brexit properly, and b) there is nothing that makes me believe BJ even wants to do Brexit properly.

          Furthermore, I don’t think he or Cummings understands that the EU agreeing to a deal and Brexit being done properly are mutually exclusive, because they, wrongly, believe that because a deal is in the EU’s economic self-interest, the EU will therefore sacrifice politically. The EU is a POLITICAL project which economics serves, not the other way round. But we will know for sure in the fulness of time.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted December 18, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

            No, it is a moral philosophical project, which both politics and economics serve.

    • Bob
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

      ” can you tweak the dreadful WA”

      It’s dreadful, just bin it and leave.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 11:20 am | Permalink


      Just A small amendment is required

      Simply add “Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”

      Then we are not tied to anything until its all settled.

  3. Mick
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    The EU agreed to a Brexit extension to 31 January 2020, with the option for the UK to leave earlier if a deal is ratified, so why can’t we leave earlier like in a weeks time surly the bill can be rushed through like what Westminster did with the cooper letwin bill and the Benn surrender bill

    • Simeon
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

      Because the Tories don’t want to leave earlier without their FTA.

    • jerry
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      @Mick; “so why can’t we leave earlier like in a weeks time”

      Are you suggesting that MP and Peers should scrap all their Christmas holiday plans. Good luck with that one, even amongst the ERG (I suspect)!…

      On the other hand, before the 31st Jan, quite possibly.

  4. Shirley
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    Of course the EU will want to extend. Again, and again, and again. It’s to their advantage in every possible area.

    They will look to dither, delay and argue. If they won’t be sensible we should walk away and concentrate on other markets. I doubt any other ‘trade’ deal will, or should, include massive annual payments, free movement, supremacy of their laws over ours, control of our fishing grounds, and all the other restrictions and controls imposed by the EU.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

      Not quite true. The EU, and businesses, would prefer the certainty of having the UK locked in to a Treaty. We’re not walking away. We’re ratifying the WA. The game is over and the EU and the UK poltical establishment have won.

    • Bob
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      We need to regain full supremacy of UK courts and we need to flush out all of the EU place men that have been infiltrated into the judiciary.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:05 am | Permalink

      This is surely right.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 11:29 am | Permalink

      Yes, it would be to the detriment of many in the European Union if the UK crashed out in disorder.

      However, it would be far, far worse for the UK.

      Leaving the European Union is lose-lose. There are NO winners, nor could there be.

      You voted for it, so at least accept it, Shirley, and apologise to the steel workers and Ford employees, whose livelihoods you have already cost them

      • Shirley
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

        Lend me your crystal ball, and let’s see what it really says. How many jobs have we lost due to EU taking control of our fishing grounds, removing competency from the UK to the EU, loss of industry to other countries (even non-EU countries) due to cheap EU loans and bribes?
        This time, it will be the EU losing jobs as competency returns to the UK.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

        Marty – – – nonsense.

      • libertarian
        Posted December 18, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

        Martin in Cardiff

        You bring me to tears nearly every day….. tears of laughter at your detachment from the real world

        In the last year alone 15 new factories have opened in the UK creating more than 12,000 new jobs

        Merkel voices optimism on Boris and Brexit at EU leaders’ summit
        Germany’s chancellor congratulated Boris Johnson on his victory, but then warned EU leaders of a possible “economic competitor on our doorstep” as Brexit materializes.

        By the way do you feel the same about the German car workers job losses when VW announced moving their production to Turkey?

        Its almost as if Marxists are wrong about everything

  5. Richard1
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Mrs von der Leyen has reportedly said a deal on goods and fish must be agreed first. I’m sure Boris has the good sense not to fall into the Mrs May trap of sequenced negotiations. By all means start with fish and goods – but nothing must be agreed until everything is agreed.

    The change of tone of some commentators is interesting. The FT eg, after 3 1/2 years of apocryphal and unrelenting hysteria from at least 3 and sometimes 4 of its regular columnists, is now starting to produce quite sensible and reasoned articles. Wolfgang Munchau for example even did one the other day quite critical of the EU’s tactics in these negotiations!

    If Boris takes a clear, friendly, but tough line there should be no problem getting a sensible arrangement, with EU-U.K. trade continuing more or less as now.

    Meanwhile I hope he presses on with 3rd party deals – Australia and NZ would be a good place to start. The signalling value would be huge for confidence.

  6. Nig l
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    As said many times if you cannot walk away from a deal you gave no leverage. It looks as if Boris has finally decided to enact that. Amber Rudd said that a large majority would reduce the influence of the ERG. She continues to be in denial refusing to accept she is out of step, not you.

    Hats off Sir.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

      I reckon most of the new MPs will join the ERG.

  7. Mark B
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    Good morning – again.

    By the time we eventually Leave, albeit in BINO, it will have longer than winning WWI and twice as long as giving India her independence – TRUE INDEPENDENCE !

    We do not need a trade deal to Leave the EU. We all know that this is a stitch up. But hey, what can we do now ?

    • Simeon
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      Not all of us are willing to admit it’s a stitch up though, and apparently some even think BJ is playing a blinder. I would have thought Sir John would know better by now than to act and speak as if we are foolish sheep. But the key point you make is, what can we do now? The answer is nothing. We voted (or didn’t vote in my case). That was our contribution. Democracy is truly inspiring isn’t it?

  8. Roy Grainger
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    Good move. Make a delay illegal. Gina Miller and co have told us that Parliament must be sovereign so if MPs pass this law that’s the end of the debate.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

      Yes, it is.

      Gina Miller didn’t say that though, and nor did the Supreme Court.

      The UK Constitution does, it was the premise of her case, and accordingly, the Court’s ruling.

      However, it is a potentially very self-harming law to pass.

      • steve
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

        Ian Wragg

        “It shows Boris is going for the soft option.”

        Well if he does we’ll ‘ave him, and his party, at the next GE.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 18, 2019 at 6:50 am | Permalink

          Most people will have either forgotten about Brexit or will place greater emphasis on other things. With Brexit ‘done’, it’ll be the state of the economy and public services that decide things. Labour being led by someone without Corbyn’s toxic baggage will also be a big factor.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted December 18, 2019 at 7:22 am | Permalink

          Your Tory media will have forgotten in all for you by then.

          You won’t remember.

          • libertarian
            Posted December 18, 2019 at 10:29 am | Permalink


            Will the left media of BBC, SKY News , Chan 4 , Twitter( the company) , Guardian, Mirror Independent Observer Morning Star also have forgotten or will they still be telling us that Corbyns marxism is the answer if only we had a different electorate ?

    Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    Not sure what ‘full exit’ means in practice but if the UK is still subject to ECJ rulings then that sure ain’t exit

    It will be instructive to watch how UK tax policy is constructed moving forward. If CGT and income tax rates stay the same that may suggest UK-EU alignment and that some form of understanding is in place to prevent the UK slashing tax to attract international capital away from the Eurozone

    • hefner
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:59 am | Permalink

      Where are you talking from? CGT on properties, on shares, income taxes can be very different from what they are in the UK when considering Germany, France, …
      The myth you keep peddling about some UK-EU alignment simply does not exist. Have you ever considered getting proper information on other European countries before coming to this blog and throwing up your bile?

      • Edward2
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

        It does exist Hefner.
        There are EU documents on tax harmonisation.
        VAT is just one tax that has restrictions on what member states can do.
        Why are do uninformed?

        • Stred
          Posted December 18, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

          France and other EU countries allow indexation on CGT. Brown’s tax grab on unreal long term gains is unique. Tories are now the tax grabbing party.

        • hefner
          Posted December 18, 2019 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

          Edward2, There are EU documents on tax harmonization, indeed. But those have not yet been fully activated (after so many years) on things like CGT on properties, on shares, or w.r.t. tax rates. So if anybody is uninformed, it is you, my dear.
          BTW, in this respect, British people have it good wrt CGT on shares, whereas CGT on family properties in France and Germany is less or even null depending on how long the property has been kept by its owner.
          So the big bad EUlf might not be that responsible for things that are in fact Purely British.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 19, 2019 at 6:36 am | Permalink

            Rubbish again Hefner
            The example I gave you of VAT harmonisation is carefully ignored by you.
            You now at least agree there are many further areas of tax harmonisation being planned.
            Having originally asserted none exist.
            Progress I suppose.

      • libertarian
        Posted December 18, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

        Hi Heffie

        Have you ever considered getting information before posting?

        EU countries have agreed to align their rules for taxing goods and services. Headline from EU report

        I found 4 EU website posts on tax alignment within the EU…. google it

  10. jerry
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Hopefully a clear signal of intent from Boris, made necessary after the usual MSM and their pundits speculation that Boris would now go for a very soft Brexit and that the ERG is now dead.

    Both the BBC and Sky News were banging on yesterday about how difficult trade deals are to negotiate, indeed they are when the parties are having to converge standards, but the UK-EU standards are already converged and have been for close on 40 plus years. So unless there is going to be any friction it which of the UK’s own domestic consumption standards can be allowed to diverge, but given the late evening announcement regarding DfFRA yesterday I doubt little will be changing. 😡

    Hopefully these reappointments are just a continuity statement pending a root and branch shake up of Govt depts. early next year…

  11. Lifelogic
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Indeed better still just forget the oven ready turkey treaty – negotiated with our hands tied behind our back by the treachery of the Benn act.

    Just leave please unless something better is offered. Does the House of Lords really need another PC lefty remainer LibDem like Nicky Morgan? The place is already stuffed with them.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      Far too many “No Nation big state pro EU Conservatives” and other such deluded, PC lefties in the Lords already.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

        Not do they need anymore pushers of the climate alarmist lunacy in the Lords, but at least Zak Goldsmith is a leaver I suppose.

    • Nig l
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

      Keeping Nicky Morgan saves having to find another Cabinet Minister until the major reshuffle. Collective responsibility means that even if you were correct, she would have to support the government.

      Indeed it seems to me that having a guaranteed pro government minister in the HOL makes a lot of political sense

      • Ian Wragg
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

        Nicky Morgan is an arch remainer and should be history. Not given a peerage
        It shows Boris is going for the soft option.

  12. Simeon
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    You are half right. Brexit can be done by the end of 2020. But it’s not going to be a full exit. The manifesto says FTA and no extension. This unlikely circle will be squared in the same way that this October’s circle was; BJ will cave into the EU demands, the EU will toss the dog a bone, and BJ will woof and claim victory. You’ll probably be a little peeved, but you can console yourself with another four years of Tory government.

    Apparently, Jonathan Portes and Sir Ivan Rogers have a bet on. The former thinks that, come 2021, we’ll still be in the Single Market. Whether we are or not, given the desire to protect trade at all costs, we might as well be. It is an indication of just how badly things have gone wrong when the chances of finding an intelligent commentary on Brexit in the Guardian are far better than finding the same in the Torygraph.

  13. BCL
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    An excellent move by BJ. Not having a firm date virtually guarantees the EU will procrastinate. Why wouldn’t they when every month of delay nets them over £1B
    I wonder if the likes of Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper regret not having voted for Mrs May’s deal.

  14. GilesB
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    Boris should put a draft FTA on the table.

    No tariffs no quotas.

    No state aid rules

    No fishing

    No environmental, worker or human rights clauses

    Disputes to be resolved by WTO

    ‘That’s the default. We are willing to leave on this basis. Now, what would you like to discuss’.

    With a separate proposal for cooperation on defence, security and policing.

    And a separate agreement on EU nationals already here and British citizens there.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

      Giles – – spot on.

    • steve
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 8:34 pm | Permalink


      “With a separate proposal for cooperation on defence, security and policing.”

      No. We should not be involved in Europe’s security, ever again. Next time they get themselves into a spot of bother they can whistle.

  15. agricola
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    But what sort of an exit are you proposing. Are you in favour of a clean break or WA2 which is a prolonged break.

    Will you allow our territorial waters and fishing rights to be negotiated away to achieve a Free Trade Agreement.

    At what point in your version of an exit from the EU do we become free to set up other trade deals around the World. Start putting some meat on the bone.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

      If you want to know what the future looks like, no need to wait. It’s right here and now. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss… Except we just got fooled again.

      • agricola
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

        My instinct is that you are wrong in your assessment. Boris knows he has to prove himself. Mrs May was a remainer at heart and thought nothing of lying through her teeth to achieve her purpose of keeping us shackled to the EU. Boris was the first to resign when it all unravelled at Chequers. By all means watch this space but I suspect we are in for a positive outcome.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 17, 2019 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

          David Davis was actually the first to resign. DD obviously has his faults, but he at least has some principles.

          I recognise that there is a chance I am wrong. See my reply to Fred H above. I would further suggest that the vast majority of voters have no time for the minutiae of Brexit. They have put their trust in BJ to get it done, and provided he and his friends in the media say it is done, the majority will accept that. Even posters on here who are evidently more engaged and better informed than this majority will go along with this.

          What will really matter is whether things get better for the predominantly working class voters who lent the Tories their votes. And this is actually largely independent of Brexit – with one caveat; the softest possible Brexit will minimise economic disruption, and therefore minimise the chance of a recession, which would of course fatally undermine the intended Tory spending splurge. So it is very obviously in the Tory party’s self interest to go for this soft Brexit, aka BRINO, aka ‘remain’, and simply sell it as Brexit. Their calculated gamble is that the people will largely buy it.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted December 18, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

            It appeared to many as good, old-fashioned, bone idleness on Davis’s part.

      • Mark B
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink


  16. RAF
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    If the EU thinks we will delay again they have an incentive not to agree anything.

    Are we continuing to shovel £1 billion a month into their ever gaping maw? If so, that’s incentive enough to hold us close for as long as possible.

  17. Kevin
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    The only “incentive” the EU need is the fact that, unlike Canada, at no point during the negotiations will the UK be an independent country. As of Friday, perhaps, a “stonking” majority of our sovereign Parliament will Withdraw our vote, our voice and our veto from the EU decision-making process, but the UK will not Leave the jurisdiction of those decisions (Art. 127, WA).

    • Simeon
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:48 am | Permalink

      Eventually, one would think, people would realise the truth of what you say as it becomes reality. But then again…

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 18, 2019 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

      Yes, it’s exactly, to the letter, as the Remain campaigns correctly said that it would and could only be.

  18. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    The problem is not the UK’s leaving of the Treaties, and when this is done the UK will have exited the European Union.

    It is in agreeing the arrangements which will, as far as possible, enable the continuation of commerce and other financial ties with the European Union, which account for roughly as much as do those with the entire rest of the globe, including the US.

    Johnson has, yet again, for no good reason, bound his own hands, and if it is because you and others misrepresent the transition period as the UK’s still being in the European Union, then you have done this country a grave disservice, I think.

    Try using your blue passport to bypass those hours long queues for non-European Union passports at Continental airports during it, why don’t you?

    • Know-Dice
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      “which account for roughly as much as do those with the entire rest of the globe, including the US.”

      Not true Martin.

      From the HoC Library – “In 2018, UK exports to the EU were £291 billion (45% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £357 billion (53% of all UK imports). The share of UK exports accounted for by the EU has generally fallen over time from 55% in 2006 to 44% in 2016, though this increased slightly to 45% in 2018”

      This also shows that we run a trade deficit with EU countries and a surplus (and rising) with the rest of the world.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

        You are writing only of goods.

        Financial ties with the European Union include services, returns on investments, cash flows generated by inward investment to the UK and more.

        It’s complicated – very.

        • Edward2
          Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

          But services were never included.
          Yet the UK growth in sales of services continued.

          Returns on UK investments in Europe and returns on European investments in the UK are controlled by long standing commercial laws.

          Inward investment by the UK and EU are growing.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

            No, not in those figures which is why they were pointless.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 18, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

            That is ridiculous logic Martin.
            First you claimed commerce could stop if we fail to get an FTA.
            Which is plainly wrong because many nations currently trade with the UK and EU without one.
            Japan only recently signed a trade deal with the EU yet has traded successfully for decades previously.
            And the UK and EU have the advantage of decades of product harmonisation in terms of quality, safety and technical competency.

            Then when it is pointed out that we have a large deficit in our trade with the EU you switch the argument to saying the figures don’t include services and other things.
            Implying that as these are outside an FTA they will also be harmed by leaving the EU .
            Then when I said services and inward investments are growing and returns on investments are protected by commercial law your response is ” they were pointless”

            Your doom filled predictions can carry on for ever.
            Meanwhile international trade will just carry on.

    • Edward2
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

      Having travelled many times over the last few years my experience has been as follows:-
      Incoming to UK:- small queues for non EU and longer queues for UK/EU passport holders.
      (Problems with automated UK passport scanning machines, although this is improving)
      Outgoing from UK:- very small queues at passport control, but fairly long queues at security screening.
      Non EU/UK airports and other borders:- passport/immigration queues were OK.

      Martin has got it wrong the delays are mainly caused by waiting for baggage to come through and queues at security screening.
      I’ve never encountered or seen hours long queues.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

        You don’t miss your flight waiting for your bag at the other end.

        • Fred H
          Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

          I collect my suitcase on arrival, never risk it being forwarded to a next flight. The places I travel to in Europe I love and want to visit for days. It’s the EU officials and stitch up thats gone on for 40 years that is the issue.

        • Edward2
          Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

          You talked of queues and delays.
          My experience is that there are no real differences in queues caused by being EU and non EU.
          Most delays are caused by administrative factors.
          Anyway airports are keen to create customer satisfaction and will be working to treat all travellers the same.
          Yours is a red herring Project Fear claim that I predict will never happen.
          As much as you hope it will.

        • APL
          Posted December 18, 2019 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

          Martin in Cardiff: “You don’t miss your flight waiting for your bag at the other end.”

          You don’t miss your flight if you travel light. Hand luggage only.

          I could be away from home with a Laptop, five pressed shirts , two pairs of trousers underwear and socks in one carry on.

    • libertarian
      Posted December 18, 2019 at 10:40 am | Permalink


      Lol you are so funny

      1) We dont have blue passports yet
      2) The queues at continental airports are EU nationals as theres far more of them travelling ( you would know that if you had ever visited anywhere in Europe)
      3) Commerce doesn’t require a trade deal in order to happen, or else you will need to explain how come 100 million Europeans own iPhones when the USA and EU dont have a trade deal
      4) There is NO single market in services

      You truly are clueless

      I still highly recommend that you stop posting on trade and business as its an area of total ignorance to you and you just make yourself look silly

  19. oldtimer
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Given the shenanigans in the last parliament, this seems sensible. It also deals with the oft repeated charges that the PM is a serial liar who cannot be trusted to keep his word (also see legislation on NHS spending). It also tempts Labour into the trap of continuing the argument about Brexit that contributed to their election defeat. Morton’s fork for the current crop of Labour MPs?

  20. ChrisS
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Remainers have already cost UK taxpayers at least £20bn in unnecessary contributions to the EU budget. I wish we could surcharge them like we can do to Councillors.

    Yet at the moment, nobody is talking about the fact that another delay would come at a significant cost : just one extra year would cost us another £10-12bn !

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

      Indeed perhaps we can get some of the wasted money back off them. They mainly work for government, in schools, in universities, the legal profession, in the Lords, for lefty “charities” and pressure groups, the BBC…… perhaps some well targeted fiscal measures?

    • James1
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      So Labour and the Lib Dems are having an inquest on what went wrong for them. Easy. Trying to subvert the largest vote in the history of the UK wasn’t a good idea.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

        It would appear that us leavers who were generally regarded as thick, or didn’t know what we were doing, were joined by millions who did know what crap the other parties were spouting.

  21. The Prangwizard
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    This is what I have been hoping for. It is absolutely vital and must not be watered down in any way.

    The object must be that if we don’t have a trade deal which gets us free of all the EU’s tentacles we leave without one. The hysteria of the media must be vigourously countered. I don’t wish to see government ministers grovelling at the feet of the BBC or any other ‘news’ outlet any more on this.

  22. Alec
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    If the deal stays the same as it was prior to the election it will not be a full Brexit as anyone that has taken the trouble to read it would know. We are still being lied to.

  23. glen cullen
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Just repeal the Ben Act……job done

  24. BillM
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Recent headlines suggest the Government is going to enshrine in British Law that we leave the EU next year with or without a trade deal.

  25. glen cullen
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    is the £39bn payment conditional on getting an FTA

    ….seem to remember ‘nothing is agreed till everything is agreed’

    • acorn
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

      The 39 billion will be paid regardless of a deal or no deal. Minus the amounts we are currently paying off because of the extended Brexit date. There is no connection between the divorce payment and a future trade agreement. Nor can there be under “WTO rules”. That is why the WA and the Political Declaration have always been deliberately separately sequenced documents.

  26. John Partington
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    There should be no negotiation on fishing. When we leave,the EU can fish where they like but not in our sovereign waters. We also need to review the jurisdiction of the ecj in this country.

    • Andy
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

      Our fishermen will then not be able to fish in EU waters – and some do. They will also not get tariff and barrier free access to the single market – where they sell most of their catch. Will you be telling the British fishermen that you are putting out of work?

      • Edward2
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

        Tariffs on fish are low.
        You don’t know what you are talking about.
        What does “barrier free” mean?

        • Andy
          Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

          If you don’t know by now you never will. You can apologise to the fishermen when they lose their jobs.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 18, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

            Why will they all lose their jobs?
            You think a tariff will stop Europe from buying any UK fish?
            The pound versus Euro rate varies by more than that.
            Even if there is a tariff it will also be applied on EU imports of fish.
            So some of that tariff revenue could be used to help invest in the industry to keep them competitive and UK buyers will move to buy more UK sourced fish which will be cheaper.
            How green is that.
            No answer to my original question I note just more bluster.

      • libertarian
        Posted December 18, 2019 at 10:43 am | Permalink

        Hello Andy

        Youve been telling us for months that the country was now solidly for Remain , I’m waiting for your intellectual analysis of why all those remainers voted for a Brexit landslide

  27. bitterend
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    It is up to us- the more we diverge from them the less chance of getting a new and favourable FTA. For instance we can diverge completely on 31st January and have nothing more to do? but is this what we really want? whatever the future, the EU is not going to go away anywhere, it will still be there, and it is going to insist on a level playing field in all matters we have with them- they have already said so and in very clear terms- that’s if we want a new deal and that will certainly mean abiding by some of their rules- so then we have to ask ourselves how much control are we actually taking back?- and hand’s up all those who think we are going to get back all of those fishing waters that we think we own? suffice to say these are all stupid questions at this level and at this time- Boris might be a big player in UK politics but am afraid at the European EU level he will still be junior.

  28. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted December 17, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    If Boris does not hang onto our fishing grounds, fix the NI disgrace and free us from the ECJ, he will lose the trust of the people. Remember the Tories went from 9% to the landslide in half a year, the reverse is possible if you try.

    Posted December 17, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Douglas Carswell telling it as it is in ‘Bursting the Blob’. A Tory government with the left still in control of the British state.

    When will Johnson start the purge of this embedded cult that now controls public policy, education, social policy, the BBC, the NHS, the police and the criminal justice system? If he choose not to confront this Gramsci parasitic cult that he may as well pack it in and hand over the reins of power to un-elected commissars

    • Mark B
      Posted December 17, 2019 at 7:12 pm | Permalink


      Yours is the best comment of them all and one that is just so true.

      Thank you.

      • Chris
        Posted December 17, 2019 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

        Seconded, Mark B.

  30. bill brown
    Posted December 18, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    The EU has absolutely no incentive in wishing to delay a comprehensive agreement with the UK

  31. mac
    Posted December 18, 2019 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Having watched this election closely from the western side of the pond, I want to congratulate your country for having decided to get out of the EU. Your electorate made a firm decision against committing national suicide, choosing instead to take your independence back from Brussels and permanently opting out of the EU. Well done! The road out of the EU will have some bumps and sore spots, but I think you will find in a decade that you made an incredibly wise decision. Rule from Westminster is immeasurably preferable to rule from Brussels.

    As for the possible loss of Scotland and Northern Ireland, it could be that they will want to leave. However, I doubt it. England has been subsidizing both places for years. They might leave, but they will be condemning themselves to long-lasting penury if they do. Both groups have the reputation for being harshly practical when it comes to money, and they won’t want to see the golden goose of Westminster set free when the likelihood of equivalent EU subsidy is, at best, a gamble with much poorer odds.

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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