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Time to walk away
October 15, 2020 258 Comments
The EU is not negotiating in good faith. The PM should keep his promise and end the talks.
October 15, 2020 258 Comments
258 Comments
Fred H October 15, 2020
Thank you Sir John. However loyal you may be towards your party, and leader, the time has come to bang the table top and say ‘enough! – goodbye!’
Alan Jutson October 16, 2020
+1
Hope October 16, 2020
JR, you miss the point. He caved in three times. This clearly demonstrates he will not walk away! This is a failed negotiation from the first time he did not keep to his word of walking away.
He signed up to the same vassalage which he resigned from govt over! They were clapping his back and all smiles when he signed WA and PD! It meant more to him to be liked than acting in the national interest. What right minded person would sign the WA or PD other than a traitor like Mayhab? It was a bridge to rejoin not leave.
Prominent EU Figures publicly ridiculing him- our nation- for not walking away!
What are you actually doing about it?
NickC October 16, 2020
Hope, Boris has announced today a (sort of) walk away. Sort of because he left the door open for an EU approach. It’s truly painful to watch the establishment stumble towards the realisations that EU cannot be trusted and they wouldn’t give us the steam off their rice pudding.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
The EU will never come on their knees asking for an FTA. It’s over, we are out!
Hope October 17, 2020
Nick, he never said he would sort of or might walk away, he said he would walk in October last year then signed the vassalage- as he called it, then walk in June then July and now he might walk. That is not a dead line to walk away.
Dutch PM Rutte says the U.K. has said many times they would walk and have not.
Hope October 16, 2020
Reported, Merkel claims U.K. Should be allowed to have a certain degree of independence! The cheek of it! What else is hidden from us for her to make such a remark?
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
That’s what May asked for…. a charade to sell us.
Hope October 17, 2020
And Johnson signed her vassalage!
Sir Patrick Vaccine October 16, 2020
Hello People of Wokingham
Full national lockdowns should ONLY be used against coronavirus as a last resort because of the ‘collateral damage’ on mental health, says WHO boss
But he said total lockdowns caused ‘collateral damage’ and should be avoided
In the Daily Mail
Martin in Cardiff October 16, 2020
Yes, one country can try “banging the table” to twenty-seven others, all united, proud, sovereign, self-confident, historic lands, working together for peace and for prosperity.
Yes, it can try.
Edward2 October 16, 2020
Billions in profitable trade for them selling into UK markets.
Millions of jobs especially in Germany and France.
Yes let them throw it away
NickC October 16, 2020
Martin, It is not a case of banging any table. The UK decided to become independent of the EU. It’s time the EU respected that, even if you can’t.
Simeon October 16, 2020
My goodness. I take back everything. Old Blowers has done it! Brexit is actually going to happen! Can’t wait to read tomorrow’s post SJR. Should be a corker! The Doomsters and Gloomsters can try to claim that this is all just theater. Let them, because the light from Boris John-Sun is simply blinding!
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
+1
Narrow Shoulders October 15, 2020
Publish the free trade agreement we are offering and walk away.
Then every producer who will be subject to tariffs and hold ups whose product is included in the FTA will see it is the EU who is costing them business.
Giles B October 16, 2020
A ‘Good Deal’ is impossible, not because of lack of good faith or effort, but because of the interaction between politics, and the unknowability of the economic value of the default position.
The 2016 referendum changed the default position of the UK from trading with the EU as a Member State to trading under WTO terms. With many uncertainties about future developments in technology, industrial restructuring, and other trade agreements, nobody can be sure that this difference for the UK would amount to more than a few percentage points of GDP either way. The EU believes that trading under WTO terms will be somewhat worse for the UK: the UK believes it will be somewhat better for the UK. Given the inherent unknowability and the difference in beliefs, from an economic perspective for the UK the value of trading with the EU under WTO terms, or trading as a Member State have to be regarded as essentially the same.
But politically they are exactly opposite. The EU is only interested in a trade deal if the value to the UK is significantly less than the value of trading as a Member State. The UK is only interested in a trade deal if the value to the UK is significantly greater than trading on WTO terms.
And so a deal is impossible. There is no landing zone for a ‘Good Deal’. For the EU the default position is a ceiling for the value to the UK. For the UK, the default position is a floor.
Trade on WTO terms is the only possible outcome.
Fig. Why a ‘God Deal’ is impossible
Increasing value to the UK
^
| ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
| ////////////// Zone for Deals acceptable to the UK /////////
| ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
| ———————Floor for a deal acceptable to the UK ———-
|
|
| | Default position
| | | | ———————- Ceiling for a deal acceptable to the EU ——— | ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
| ////////////// Zone for Deals acceptable to the EU ////////
| ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
NickC October 16, 2020
Giles B, You are right. And the fact that the EU would not give us a good (or even a standard) free trade deal was bleedin’ obvious at least as far back as 2013. I wrote about it back then and there were very many like me judging by the comments Gerard Batten put the arguments for ignoring Art50 and unilaterally leaving, into book form in 2014.
Narrow Shoulders October 16, 2020
A free trade deal would be less value than being a member state to any country that wanted to be a member state.
It is not less value to a country that does not want to be a member state.
Stephen Priest October 16, 2020
You are correct.
Politician lose all common sense once in Government.
Fred H October 17, 2020
oh! the oxygen of power!
Hope October 16, 2020
He has to leave before US election. If Biden gets in he will try to pressure Johnson to remain in the EU! He was Obama’s side kick who wanted back of queue after briefing from fake tories Cameron/Osborn team.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
Trump will win.
Sir Patrick Vaccine October 16, 2020
Hello Peoples of Wokingham
‘It’s a massive claim; I think the pandemic is fundamentally over’ Former chief scientific advisor with Pfizer Mike Yeadon has said he believes the coronavirus pandemic is drawing to a close, despite rising cases in parts of the UK.
His is with Jukia Hartkey Brewer Talk Radio on YOU TUBE
Truth about the claims scaring us all to death:
Soaring infections, teeming hospital wards, and terrifying death rates… but do the numbers justifying crippling new lockdowns REALLY stand up to scrutiny?
Ross Clark in the Daily Mail
Narrow Shoulders October 16, 2020
Might I suggest, Sir Pat Vac, that by hijacking a thread on leaving the EU you are fanning the flames of fearmongering about the virus?
A time and a place.
James Bertram October 15, 2020
Agreed. End the talks. That; or be removed from Office.
Or is the Tory Party still a Remainer Party?
Martin in Cardiff October 16, 2020
The UK has left the European Union, months ago.
You are getting exactly the mess for which you voted, and about which you were patiently and repeatedly warned.
Own it, and smile.
It’s what you always wanted.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
I’m smiling! Saying te deums since midday!
NickC October 16, 2020
Martin, No we have not left the EU. We swapped treaties – TFEU and TEU out, WA in – so the EU remains in control of the UK until at least 31 Dec 2020. You’re getting exactly the mess you and Remain always wanted – the UK as a colony of the EU. It’s what Remain has wasted 4 years and £millions on. Own it, and smile – whilst you can.
James Bertram October 16, 2020
Martin – my post did not pass moderation. I’ll leave you guessing as to what I had to say; for Sir John is more of a gentleman than I.
Nicky Roberts October 17, 2020
I for one am very chipper about current events. The EU want nothing more than our humiliation with their vendettas and punishment beatings. Merkel talks abut us having ‘a bit of independence’. No not a bit of independence but complete independence. We have left the corrupt EU and as they said a few years ago…’things can only get better.’
turboterrier October 15, 2020
Sir John. In an ideal world with you and like wise committed colleagues at the head of the govern.ent then the country irrespective of which way you voted would at least have the certain knowledge that despite all valiant efforts it would be the time to walk away from the table.
Our pm and his cabinet colleagues sadly are not meeting let alone exceeding our expectations. We are under their guidance remained the EU patsy totally at their back and call dispite all the huffing and puffing.
It all leads up to the question all of us ourselves every day ” who actually is it that is controlling and running this country”? For sure it ain’t our PM and his government.
If bottles out on this one he will leave the country dead in the water and a laughing stock internationally “as usual all talk no action”
XYXY October 15, 2020
Yes, it is rather difficult to see how the PM can do anything else now. To fail to do that next week would be to show such weakness in backtracking on a deadline that the EU would simply continue to wait for further concessions.
The political fallout of concessions now would not be pretty – the electorate are watching closely – and they’re much more savvy now than they have ever been – especially when it comes to Brexit sell-outs and anything that looks remotely like BRINO.
Time to walk away.
Jon October 15, 2020
Agreed. 4 years wasted.
rose October 15, 2020
Walk away before 11.59 pm.
There will be time in the real outside world in which to negotiate a free trade agreement if we find we want one. But I don’t think we will, because the other side of the table have made it clear we can’t have one.
glen cullen October 15, 2020
Without doubt the best post you’ve ever written Sir John….one I completely agree with
Lifelogic October 15, 2020
Indeed but why would anyone ever have expected the EU bureaucrats to negotiate in good faith? This given their record and their desire to décourager les autres? We saw how they gave Cameron his pathetic & worthless “thin gruel”. Which the foolish dope accepted and advised the voters to accept. Fortunately the voters showed more guts and more sense.
I certainly did not expect good faith from EU bureaucrats. Boris has alas mad it far worse by signing the appalling W/A handcuff treaty. This having be put in an appalling position by 9% May, Bercow, the Supreme Court and all the appalling Benn Act Traitors.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
The antics of the political class have cost us billions in the last 4 years and 4 months. I want to know the figure because we need contrition, we need some humility too – the people had the measure of the EU before the politicians did. They must defer to the people when they don’t know what to do.
Next up:
1 greencrap
2 Covid
We know what to do.
NickC October 16, 2020
Lynn, That is exactly right – ” the people had the measure of the EU before the politicians did”. Well said.
Lifelogic October 16, 2020
Indeed. But we still have not had any remote contrition or apology from the dire John Major, the establishment or all the “experts” for taking us into the ERM and the attempt to push us into the EURO – so do not hold your breath!
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
They are condemned out of their own mouths. Any normal person would be mortified to be exposed as treacherous. May and Major just motor on.
villaking October 16, 2020
Boris was not put in a appalling position by anyone. He called an election based on his own WA / threat of leaving with no deal and won a majority so now needs to enact it. This includes, I am afraid, leaving on WTO terms at the end of the year. I think that would be disastrous for British industry but I accept democracy. The truth is I don’t think he will, this is a man not averse to breaking his word, breaking the law or missing a deadline. He is also a very weak person who yields to popular criticism, witness his misguided approach to CV19. The WA contains irreconcilable goals, it is nothing to do with good faith or bad faith. It confirms both the sovereignty of the UK, the integrity of the free market and an aim of free trade (access for the UK to a single market whose rules we will not follow). We are the weaker party in this negotiation led by a weak PM. There will be a fudged compromise which Mr Johnson will try to sell as a victory
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
He was put in an appalling position by May and the Remain Parliament.
NickC October 16, 2020
Villaking, Whilst you talk much sense about covid19, on Brexit you are way off. Boris was forced into the position of going along with the WA because it had to be accepted before the Dec 2019 general election, since the EU would not start again and the Remain Parliament stymied him. He kept his word with both the EU and with Parliament despite winning an 80 seat majority subsequently. And which law has Boris been “breaking”? He hasn’t.
Only 12.6% of UK GDP derives from exports to the EU, all the rest comes from trading with ourselves (the vast majority nearly 70%) and with the rest of the world. By leaving we gain control of over 100% of our GDP, with the risk that the 12.6% EU element may decline – so the gains are massively more than the risks. And that’s just economics. We also gain our precious independence, which tops the lot.
IanT October 15, 2020
Agreed! Get on with it!
IanT October 16, 2020
And it seems Boris is going to do exactly that.
Well done Boris!
glen cullen October 16, 2020
But he still hasn’t walked …..all talk
I’d be the first to give him a well done – but not yet
Will in Hampshire October 15, 2020
Our host and the other Leavers are now in blame-shifting finger-pointing mode. Of course it’s nothing to do with them. Many of us predicted that this would be how it ends.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
The whole country voted for this, the whole country including our host and other Leave MPs predicted this, but the knouckleheaded Remainers have cost the country billions and its reputation with a year 4 month tantrum.
Time for all Remainers to either shut up or leave – your precious EU is just a few miles away and you can buy houses for the price of a car.
Fernando Ferreira October 16, 2020
Dear Lynn,
Have your «Full Yes to Leave without a FTA with the EU» now and, sometime after January 1, 2021, you will also get an end to Ireland’s Partition and Scotland’s Independence.
Kent County is becoming a gigantic lorry park, just as Project Fear warned you.
Sovereignty doesn’t fill bellies at present and future UK lockdowns, no matter what tier you’re in…
NickC October 16, 2020
Dear Fernando,
Have your «Sovereignty doesn’t fill bellies at present» now and, sometime after January 1, 2021, you will also get dissension within the EU as Italy, Eire, Spain, Portugal and Greece realise they’re being left out to dry, once the Brexit fake unity has disappeared.
Fernando Ferreira October 19, 2020
Dear NickC,
Please don’t forget to invest in your stellar new “Customs Sector”, or to feed your monthly Rishi checks into haulage rental business: it helps to Make Britain Great Again!!
fedupsoutherner October 16, 2020
Will Only because you knew the EU never wanted us to succeed.
NickC October 16, 2020
Will, I wanted a WTO deal right from the start. So the only people to blame are Remains who have wasted over 4 years and £millions trying to overturn our democratic vote to Leave. And given us the odious WA to remind us how bad Remain would have been.
glen cullen October 16, 2020
Correct
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
You know, it’s a miracle, that we have won. Sir John was in a tiny minority fighting our cause in that Remainer hell hole that once was our Sovereign Parliament, and will be again soon. Some had the head, some had the heart, and could not see it out, but thank God there were enough with both to see us through.
We are in their debt to the same tune as we were to the Great Admiral and the Great General, Nelson and Wellington.
We can never repay that debt, but we can acknowledge it.
Adam October 15, 2020
They obstruct their own path.
We can go far more pleasant ways than wading through treacle just to reach closer to their nonsense.
Let’s walk away fresh, free and better.
Sir Joe Soap October 15, 2020
Yes, 15th October is the line in the sand, final, absolute end of the full negotiation.
Walk away and you have 2.5 months to conclude mini deals with those EU countries who want to deal with us.
Italian wine and Czech cars seem pretty good these days.
As a fall back, Californian wine and Japanese cars not so bad either.
We have a choice-use it.
Know-Dice October 16, 2020
I would go Australian wine and Korean cars… Wow there’s a wide choice of non-EU products out there… Who would have believed that.
It does leave a bit of a hole in UK exports though 🙁
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
No hole in UK exports. Because we will not be imposing punitive EU tariffs on imports from the rest of the world, they will treat our exports better, and our product will be more competitive.
Happy days! (Minus greencrap and Covid)
Narrow Shoulders October 16, 2020
We need to walk away but the central point of the EU’s single market is you can not negotiate with individual countries.
One in all in, one out all out.
Fred H October 16, 2020
English wine, and even Chilean can be good…Australian mostly great.
Peter October 15, 2020
Agreed.
It is helpful that covid lockdown news has top spot in all the media and failure to apply Brexit deadline promises is subsidiary news. It reminds of the quote about ‘a good day to bury bad news’.
Iain Gill October 15, 2020
agreed just walk away, well said. and defend our fishermen who are being attacked at sea by the French.
Richard1 October 15, 2020
How much of the WA do you you think we can get out of if the EU is breaking it by not negotiating, as agreed, in good faith?
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
The whole.
Steven October 15, 2020
None of this governments promises are being kept.
glen cullen October 16, 2020
They promised to honour the 2016 referendum – they still haven’t
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
They have now …
glen cullen October 16, 2020
give it another 24hrs than we’ll know
Ian@Barkham October 15, 2020
Lord Frost has tweeted “Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations.
Surprised EU is no longer committed to working “intensively” to reach a future partnership as agreed with
@vonderleyen
on 3 October.
David Frost
@DavidGHFrost
·
3h
2/3 Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It’s an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
David Frost
@DavidGHFrost
·
3h
3/3 PM
@BorisJohnson
will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September.
Most of us could have told him that years ago. Do we get to get on with being a success now
Shire Tory October 16, 2020
This appalling UK government has reneged on a treaty agreed only a few months ago, something my hero Maggie T would never have done. No surprise the EU is now being very wary, Cummings has shot this country in the foot
Narrow Shoulders October 16, 2020
This “appalling UK Government” has stuck to the letter of the agreement and adhered to UK law as voted for by our Parliament which I understand from previous legal cases is sovereign.
No harm, no foul.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
Cummings has saved the country from the EU.
Christine October 16, 2020
She wouldn’t have signed it in the first place.
Boris only signed it because of all the traitorous MPs and the courts.
It was the price he paid to get the early election.
Now he can show EU bad faith he can rip up the WA and PD.
glen cullen October 16, 2020
He should have ripped up the WA and PD midnight 15th October if he had any honour at all
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
Take the win.
Ian @Barkham October 16, 2020
+1
So true, but how quickly conveniently forget.
Its the utter mess caused by an unruly unrepresented parliament that gives the EU hope they can defeat the UK and keep them under their control. Never forget Blair was the advisor to Macron
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
+1
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
+1
Caterpillar October 15, 2020
The difference between ‘espoused theory’ and ‘theory in use’.
Andy October 15, 2020
We hold all the cards. We can do a deal over a cup of tea. Easiest deal in the world.
The German car industry will tell Angela Merkel….
How the mighty claims have crashed and burned.
Brexit is now about lorry parks and portaloos.
It really is going to be straightforward to overturn it.
Richard1 October 16, 2020
It’s possible you will be right and we will rejoin. 2 things will need to happen. 1. Brexit will have to be seen to be a failure under its own terms – no trade deals, no saving of money to the EU, no control over food, fish etc, and 2. The eurozone will have to be a clear success.
You need the eurozone to clearly outperform the U.K. economy in the next few years. Otherwise you’re stuffed.
Narrow Shoulders October 16, 2020
Even the BBC’s pro EU correspondent yesterday conceded that the EU would struggle to bear the cost of having no trade deal with the EU.
Cutting of their collective economic noses to save the political face.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
EU business is on he ceiling. They were promised that we would be destroyed.
Martin in Cardiff October 16, 2020
To some extent it would be straightforward to reverse – the balance of the public consensus has probably already done that.
However, I think that the European Union will understandably and rationally revert to De Gaulle’s position re the UK – and it only needs one member to do that anyway.
It would probably have to content itself with EEA participation.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
Even Starmer knows that there will never be a reversal of public opinion. That’s why he will ‘not fight to rejoin’.
NickC October 16, 2020
In your dreams, Martin.
Fred H October 16, 2020
Can you write about anything else? Obsessive focus on lorries and toilets is getting boring Andy.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
Have you seen the panic in the letter from EU industry to their boneheaded ‘leaders’? You were wrong and as you always are.
Sea_Warrior October 16, 2020
You need to pay a daily visit to Guido. There was a story a day or two about how EU industry bodies had just told Merkel, and Marcon, and …
No Longer Anonymous October 16, 2020
I’m afraid it’s true.
This was mishandled terribly. We did not have the leaders to take us out.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
He was cornered like a rat. We WON. Rejoice!
Glenn Vaughan October 16, 2020
“It really is going to be straightforward to overturn it.” Andy
Not by you or your kind chum!
Original Richard October 16, 2020
Andy : “We hold all the cards. We can do a deal over a cup of tea. Easiest deal in the world.”
It was always logical to expect the EU to want to trade easily with a nation with whom it has a £100m/YEAR trade surplus. But in the EU politics and emotion trumps common sense.
Also we were not expecting the EU to make statements such as
“You can have sovereignty over your waters, but the fish is a different matter entirely.”
It is clear that the EU is not negotiating in good faith and is therefore in breech of the WA/PD as well as in blatant contravention of UN Resolution 3281 Article 32 making negotiations and a fair agreement impossible.
Andy : “Brexit is now about lorry parks and portaloos.”
Kent has been in need of this for years. French internal disputes have caused lorry parks on Kent motorways many times in the past and the French government have taken no action, again in clear breech of EU rules to keep the borders open. We would need these lorry parks whether we were in or out of the EU.
However, hopefully in the longterm trade with the EU will decline reducing our reliance on the troublesome Dover/Calais crossing.
I trust that Ireland has sorted its proposed direct link with the rest of the EU and will no longer be relying on UK roads and the Dover/Calais crossing.
Mockbeggar October 16, 2020
You can expect more use for lorry parks as it’s all the world to a china orange that French fishermen will start blockading Calais when we take back control of our fish from the CFP.
Original Richard October 16, 2020
Sorry, I meant £100bn/YEAR trade surplus…
NickC October 16, 2020
Andy, Why do you continue to lie about what Liam Fox said? It does not impress us, and merely confirms your opinion cannot be trusted. This is what Fox actually said (quoted from the Guardian, July 2017):
“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history. We are already beginning with zero tariffs, and we are already beginning at the point of maximal regulatory equivalence, as it is called. In other words, our rules and our laws are exactly the same. . . . The only reason that we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics. . . . We can of course survive with no deal“.
What Fox said is reasonable. What you say is blatantly false.
Billy Elliot October 15, 2020
But will he?
Iain Gill October 15, 2020
At least Andy Burnham mentioned the lack of help freelancers have been getting through all of this. Strange isn’t it natural Conservative voters and the only politician speaking up for them is Labour.
The lock downs are nonsense now. It’s clear that the ruling class are useless. I actively disobey from now on, as will most people.
rose October 16, 2020
Burnham is not speaking up for conservatives. He is just trying to get more money for his patch than for anyone else’s. If he gets it, he will be happy with the authoritarian left position of shutting down the country and not worrying about where all this money is to come from.
NickC October 16, 2020
Rose, True. Burnham is copying SNP tactics.
James Matthews October 15, 2020
Long past time to walk away.
Fred H October 16, 2020
about 3 years?
anon October 16, 2020
-About 45 years and perhaps only +£500b (billion) added to the national debt, for the ride.
£500 billion whats that in “cheap renewable power” or re-invested in high quality, high tech, high value, high gdp per capita growth, training our own and minimal immigration in a sustainable UK.
Ian Wragg October 15, 2020
But he won’t will he.
He’s in thrall to the globalist and will betray us.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
He’s cornered like a rat because the Great Lord Frost has told the nation and the world of the EU contempt.
He might have no option but to do the right thing.
Jacob October 15, 2020
Covid is the main thing now- transition talks have slipped down the agenda so I think they are just wrapping things up
No Longer Anonymous October 16, 2020
CV-19. God’s gift to the Left according to Jane Fonda.
Average age of death by CV-19 82 – the average life expectancy 81. You’ve more chance of being alive WITH CV-19 than dead without it !!!
None of the above October 15, 2020
Judging by the attitude on display at the EU Council meeting, I would say that further negotiation would be a waste of time and effort.
The only sensible course is to end the talks, repeal the 2020 Act and go to WTO rules.
It might be a good idea, in order to assist Australia (and irritate China) to import some of the Ausie coal that China doesn’t want. I think it’s about time that we increased our commitment to our English speaking friends.
If the PM bottles this, he will have lost my vote forever.
SM October 16, 2020
I’m afraid I feel the same way, and that’s after more than 40 years of voting Conservative and working (very hard) for them.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
+1
Fred H October 16, 2020
Boris Johnson has said he would “rather be dead in a ditch” than agree to extend Brexit….but extend anything else – yes certainly.
steve October 16, 2020
“If the PM bottles this”
……he has.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
He has NOT!
fedupsoutherner October 16, 2020
+1 I’ve had enough of being lied to by successive Conservative leaders.
a-tracy October 15, 2020
One of the best lessons we received as parents is not to threaten to do something with a child if you’re not prepared to follow through on it if things don’t go right. If Boris never intended to walk away he shouldn’t have threatened it. He really has no choice now but to walk away and get on with it.
Let’s face it nothings moving for a year anyway if not longer and we need to get more self-sufficient, finding out what is necessary and what we need to make or import from the rest of the World if the EU want to slam the door.
Narrow Shoulders October 16, 2020
A threat is only a threat is the other side think it is a possibility (remember Corbyn and the nuclear button).
Use it or lose it. Walk away, can always come back later under different circumstances if genuinely appropriate.
Fred H October 16, 2020
+1
beresford October 15, 2020
We should have ended the ‘talks’ a year ago. Offered the EU a ‘take it or leave it’ FTA and gone to WTO. It has always been obvious that the bitter EU will not contemplate any arrangement under which we might prosper, so the only way to prosper is in spite of them. It is a mystery why we have wasted all this time discussing fisheries and control by one party of the other’s industrial policy, since these form no part of trade deals elsewhere. Even if we made these concessions there are 27 EU members states, the EU Parliament and the ECJ, all with a veto to demand more concessions.
Walt October 16, 2020
+1
mancunius October 15, 2020
The PM needs not only to end the talks, but immediately to tear up the Withdrawal Agreement and the NI Protocol. He should also sack any Tory MPs who pretend to have ‘scruples’ about their fictional idea of international law – an agreement the foreign counterparty is clearly intending to abuse as an aggressive act against our country’s national independence does not meet any standards of international law.
formula57 October 16, 2020
Agreed.
Also repudiate the May/Duncan defence agreements that doubtless are more about defending the Evil Empire than the UK.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
The WA falls.
glen cullen October 16, 2020
Agree
Sam Vara October 15, 2020
Was it ever negotiating in good faith? Before January of this year, the negotiations seemed to be about thwarting the will of the UK public by keeping us in the EU. Since then, it has been about showing other members that leaving will be made as difficult and costly as possible.
That’s a great organisation to be a member of, isn’t it!
Mike Wilson October 15, 2020
Do you make this point more widely – in Parliament, to whoever will listen to you that is senior in your party and to the media? As well as on this site.
Reply Of course and this site is public!
Lindsay McDougall October 16, 2020
Agreed, and there’s certain things we should do on 1st January:
(1) Withdraw recognition of the unelected European Commission. Henceforth we would negotiate only with individual Member States – especially on fishing.
(2) Inform the European Commission that they must ensure that no delays are caused to UK exporters. We would reciprocate. If they fail, we would make no further payments to the EC and might scrap the entire Withdrawal Agreement.
(3) To achieve this happy outcome, what the EC would have to do is:
– Publish PDQ all tariffs and quotas that will apply from 1st January
– Specify the paperwork and data that they require from our exporters
– Move towards the concept of trusted traders
– Check in detail only a small percentage of lorry loads and containers coming from UK. My information is that only 2% of US containers coming through Rotterdam are inspected in detail. What’s good enough for America is good enough for us.
It concerns me that Mr Gove is planning to overcome EC bloody mindedness by paying a large fee for extra lorries. That’s the wrong approach. Rough wooing is what is required.
steve October 16, 2020
Lindsay
‘we’ are powerless to do anything. The way this will play out is that Johnson will capitulate to french demands, it will be BRINO, cons loose the next general election in utter disgrace, and then ‘we’ install a patriotic party.
Until then people will not take any notice of Boris Johnson.
Narrow Shoulders October 16, 2020
RE One. The guiding principle of the EU is no individual negotiation so that will not fly however rationale we believe it to be. We negotiate with the bear not its cubs.
To run with your point on the commission though, I am sure that Russia and a Trump led US might be open to querying the legitimacy of the unelected EU Council on the world stage. China might just join in and then there is momentum.
Pominoz October 16, 2020
Absolutely, Sir John.
Cessation of talks should be announced today, with confirmation that, in the light of the EU’s utter lack of real intention to accept the UK as a sovereign independent nation, the WA and all that goes with it no longer applies.
steve October 16, 2020
Pominoz
Personally I couldn’t give a rat’s ass what Johnson does now, I shall ignore anything he does or says. His promise was broken yesterday. Time’s up.
glen cullen October 16, 2020
hear hear
DOM October 16, 2020
It’s hardly a surprise that the EU is acting in this manner but Johnson knows this because he’s also acting in the same manner. I have no doubt the EU and Johnson are singing from the same hymn sheet but deliberately crafting the veneer of two opposing parties for domestic consumption. This PM is not batting for the UK, he’s batting for the EU by embracing their strategy
Of course Johnson’s not to be trusted. He never was Every Tory leader since MT has been utterly without substance or principle.
I have no doubt he will betray the aim of the Brexit campaign which was to secure our full departure from the EU and become once more a fully independent, self-governing and sovereign nation without outside interference from supra-national bodies of any kind
He showed his true colours in Summer by endorsing the Marxist thugs from the US and in so doing slandered tens of millions of our fellow citizens by playing the race card against them.
He’s just another London-centric, smug, slimy, two-faced, nasty progressive who despises white, working folk. What a total fraud. Worst than Blair, Brown and Corbyn and Starmer. At least we can see their hate and harmful intent against the majority population
steve October 16, 2020
DOM
Excellent +1
Hope October 16, 2020
Dom,
Agreed. Who would resign from govt over vassalage of our nation then sign up to the same document!
Walk away from talks and ditch WA and PD.
Cameron laid traps not to prepare to leave EU and May did every underhand dishonest trick to prevent UK departure. Both acted as traitors to our country. Unbelievable that anyone voted for this party at the last election.
Mays deal dead, Get Brexit done, oven ready deal…etc. Those who believed him and the two traitors before were idiots.
BOF October 16, 2020
Well said DOM.
fedupsoutherner October 16, 2020
So right Dom. The ONLY reason I voted Conservative this time was because I believed Johnson when he said we would leave the EU and if a good trade deal wasn’t available it would be WTO. With the choice on the ballot paper I wouldn’t have voted at all if I knew what I know now. Unless Farage stands next time I am not voting.
Jim Whitehead October 16, 2020
+1
Jack Falstaff October 16, 2020
Also +1.
We were promised the spontaneous brio and “never surrender” of the new Churchill. What we got is Mrs May 2.0 to hold us on a course to carefully-calculated subjugation.
A full-fledged confidence trick.
The Conservatives must now rebrand as the party of Hobson’s choice.
The other Christine October 16, 2020
So true. Nothing but empty promises. Pathetic.
Everhopeful October 16, 2020
+1
Shire Tory October 16, 2020
But he is not going to walk away, is he. Because people like you can shout from the sidelines with no responsibility for what’s coming. The PM has seen how dependent our trade is on a deal, and he knows he has to do one. But I know you don’t care, Mr Redwood, yet another Tory leader you’ve undermined with your fantasy that Britain (uniquely in the world except North Korea) doesn’t need trade deals, you must be so proud of yourself
Stephen Priest October 16, 2020
The EU does not want a trade deal.
Want it wants is a treaty that we can never get out of that will always give them control.
Adam October 16, 2020
Our trade is dependent only on consumer demand, as is that of every other nation, and your opinion if anyone wants it.
NickC October 16, 2020
Shire Tory, All that trade deals do is to modify the commercial policy of the participants. The actual framework of global trade is governed by WTO rules (for 98% of global trade). Even the EU’s trade is governed by WTO rules.
Clearly, then, trade deals are not necessary. But you know as well as I do that the EU is not just a trade deal – it’s all the dirigiste baggage that comes with it, which is the problem. And neither I, nor you, nor Boris, can force the EU to have a trade deal with us.
steve October 16, 2020
Too late, he’s already broken his promise.
The only hope you have is to replace him immediately by the likes of IDS, one of the very few who won’t take any sh*t from the french.
Even then it’s doubtful the conservatives would win the next general election. Nobody will forget how Mr De Pfeffel humiliated this country in front of his beloved french cousins.
Personally I think the conservatives are finished.
No Longer Anonymous October 16, 2020
Soon there are going to be mass demonstrations to get this government out and I will be joining them.
I shall not be joining in the riots, of course.
The is the worst government and the worst PM in British History.
NickC October 16, 2020
No Longer Anon, No, I think Boris is a long way from being the worst PM. He was landed with the WA problem by Theresa May. Like most of our loser PMs (and MPs) he has tended to sell out to the EU (eg the WA, though there were extenuating circumstances).
I would rank May as the worst (because there’s documentary evidence she lied), very closely followed by Ted Heath and Tony Blair, then David Cameron, John Major, Gordon Brown, Harold Wilson, Boris. Of course the best by far was Margaret Thatcher, despite her many faults (as we all have).
Mick October 16, 2020
Don’t walk, but run as fast as you can away from the dreaded Eu, it’s fairly obvious to a blind man that the dreaded eu wants to drag the negotiations out even further so as to keep us connected one way or another, we voted out and that should mean out
Sir Patrick Vaccine October 16, 2020
Hello People of Wokingham – the Prime Minister has said and written a lot of things. He said a 2nd National lockdown would be catastrophic of the economy (as if the first one wasn’t). But he is pushing us into one for no goos reason.
Approximately 1500 people die a day in Britain – yesterday the recorded Covid deaths were 138
(died of any cause 28 days after a positive tests according to the Government own website)
Last 3 days 143, 137 , 138 death . For this we are killing the economy and freedom
Ivor Cummins has excellent analysis of the statistics on his You Tube channel.
Sir Patrick Vaccine October 16, 2020
By the way the Queen’s not wearing a mask.
A silent but subtle protest?
DOM October 16, 2020
Everything the royal family does is officially approved by government. They don’t act independently. Even Henry Windsor’s activism is officially sanctioned.
Look and you will see. British leaders hate Britain
rose October 16, 2020
She just wears a head scarf when riding and always has.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
We all did when I worked in a racing stable. Headscarfs to ride work.
Alan Jutson October 16, 2020
“Queen not wearing a mask”.
No she was not, but to protect her every single person she was to come close to had already been tested.
Unlike the vast majority in the Country who actually need to get out and about.
A very expensive visit just to unveil a plaque, was it really worth it ?
Fred H October 16, 2020
Funny you should point that out – – HM has flagged her view very subtly before!
Hope October 16, 2020
And she was indoors. And belongs to a high risk age group.
Newmania October 16, 2020
.and thus endeth the easiest negotiations ever …..
beresford October 16, 2020
They should have been easy negotiations. But what our politicians never seemed to realise was that these were not normal trade negotiations, the EU wanted to ensure that we wouldn’t prosper after leaving. They were prepared to suffer unnecessary hardship themselves in order to achieve this objective. The only course was to break cleanly and return to trade negotiations when the EU had come to their senses.
DavidJ October 16, 2020
Indeed; the only common sense approach.
Fred H October 16, 2020
but it was 7 years with Canada!
rose October 16, 2020
They weren’t starting from the position of alignment we were. Ours could have been done very quickly but it was never going to be because the EU didn’t want us to prosper – even though it says in article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty that they must foster peace and prosperity on their borders..
Sea_Warrior October 16, 2020
I’m sure you’re wholly supportive of the EU’s strategy.
NickC October 16, 2020
Newmania, Like Andy, you lie about what Liam Fox said. There is no excuse – I, and others, have told you what Fox actually said, on here – and it’s easy to look up on the internet if you need to check.
The Prangwizard October 16, 2020
Should? Nice soft talk as usual.
Nothing assertive or determined of course, why not ‘must’?
That wouldn’t do would it, mustn’t sound demanding.
miami.mode October 16, 2020
TP, you’re wrong, because in the context it has been used our host is being assertive and demanding.
verb
1.
used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone’s actions.
“he should have been careful”
Agreed. Johnson indeed looks more and more like a Prime Windbag than a Prime Minister.
Mary M. October 16, 2020
Yes, Sir Patrick Vaccine, the Queen’s non-wearing of a mask was indeed a subtle message of hope to us all. Good on Her Majesty!
Today we read that some people are upset by the fact that Her Majesty didn’t wear a mask. The explanation given yesterday when the visit was first reported was that the Queen needed to be heard by those she was speaking to. HM, like the majority of us, will not be muzzled.
(Remember her ‘question’ to dinner companions pre-Brexit? ‘Give me three good reasons why Britain should be part of Europe’.)
Nigl October 16, 2020
Regrettably like so many people in this country the EU doesn’t believe Boris, or probably more like the hidden remainers that infest the corridors of power whispering nasties in his ear.
Cortona October 16, 2020
I said straight after Boris’ election The UK should have said firmly to the EU that if they were serious about doing a sensible deal then they must replace Barnier who had proved himself beyond this task. I fear that as usual I am being proved right and I’m surprised this isn’t discussed more elsewhere.
Fred H October 16, 2020
we all think we are right who post on here!
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
I am delighted they did not replace Barnier. The EU needed to reveal is intractability in no uncertain terms in order for the British PM to be snookered and to be forced to concede a clean Brexit to the millions who voted for it.
acorn October 16, 2020
What’s the betting that Boris bottles it? To Brexit or not to Brexit; with or without a C19 get-out excuse clause.
I have said many times on this site that the UK voluntarily left the EU. The EU did not throw the UK out of the EU Club. An Article 50 exit from the Club does not guarantee anything for a leaving member’s future association with the EU Club. The current pompous arrogant UK government, that still thinks we are the global big noise of the 19th Century, seems to think it does.
Ironically, it will undoubtedly be the very people that voted “leave” and this form of economic suicide, that will take the brunt of the pain of a no-deal Brexit.
Edward2 October 17, 2020
Odd you think asking for a mutually beneficial free trade agreement with the EU is pompous and arrogant by our government.
Similar to ones the EU has recently agreed with other major non EU nations.
NickC October 17, 2020
Acorn, The EU demanding it must rule a neighbouring country is not arrogant in which way? We’re just asking for a free trade deal, like Canada did, which is neither arrogant nor pompous.
And actually you will find that Lisbon has much to say on how the EU ought to conduct itself with neighbouring states, and it certainly doesn’t cover the EU’s vindictiveness and hostility towards the UK.
Peter van LEEUWEN October 16, 2020
How about giving your prime minister some slack.
Breaking a deadline is not quite as bad as breaking a treaty and possibly violating international law.
Fred H October 16, 2020
One deadline certainly, two or three incompetent, more is a sacking offence.
Bye!
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
You should know, the EU breaks Treaties and international law on a regular basis. That God we are free! I forgive Boris everything but it is Cummings, Frost and. Handful of MPs on all sides of the House, including our host, who are the heroes.
Thank you with all my heart.
Sea_Warrior October 16, 2020
Is the EU acting in the spirit of Article 8.1 of its own Lisbon Treaty? I don’t think so.
Edward2 October 16, 2020
The Withdrawal Agreement isn’t a treaty.
What are the penalties for breaking international law?
Do we get sent to prison?
NickC October 16, 2020
PvL, We are where we are due to the EU’s obsession with its own power structure – and its foolish reliance on Remain fellow travellers within the UK. The EU has moreover repeated the mistake it made with its disdainful treatment of David Cameron. Will it ever learn?
Sir Joe Soap October 16, 2020
You’ve had 4 years to come up with a plan.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
6 and a half – Cameron ‘negotiated’ for 2 years! He wanted to win a referendum and end the question forever (because we would have had the Euro forced on us).
Ian @Barkham October 16, 2020
From the Telegraph
EU leaders said the UK had to make “the necessary moves to make an agreement possible” and concede on fishing, the “level playing field” guarantees and the enforcement of the deal at a summit held on Mr Johnson’s October 15 deadline for a deal “to be in sight”.
World wide the ‘level playing field’ is administered and enforced by the WTO. The EU doesn’t control the WTO in fact they ignore the WTO when it regularly finds the EU working against ‘level playing field’ agreements. So their proposal it is the EU rule or no trade, but only as far as the UK is concerned.
The EU fishing in UK coastal waters (the bit between the beach and out for 12 miles) the UK must accept EU governance and administration or no trade deal.
These are the compromises required by the EU. EU Governance and administration internally of the UK or no trade deal. If Boris capitulates logic is we would no longer need a UK Government or the HoC – EU democracy in action
acorn October 16, 2020
The WTO has no sanctioning powers, it can’t enforce anything. The WTO Appellate body remains non-quorate thanks to Trump blocking Judge appointments.
A dispute panel ruling has decided “Updated on 13 October 2020 at 18.11 CET. The European Union may retaliate against the United States following damage to Airbus’ sales of aircraft to prospective clients from government subsidies to Boeing. The amount of annual trade that may be covered by EU retaliation is US $ 3.99 billion.”
Trading on WTO rules is meaningless. No nation trades on WTO rules alone. An Australian type deal Boris favours is in fact, no deal and WTO rules.
If Trump gets re-elected, there won’t be a WTO in future. He wants every deal to be bilateral.
Edward2 October 17, 2020
Not “on WTO rules”.
It will simply be an agreement to follow WTO schedules.
It works for over 90% of world trade and has led to a boom in international trade.
It leads to more free trade and less protectionism.
The opposite to the way the EU is heading.
acorn October 17, 2020
Do you actually know what a WTO schedule is and the fact it simply states the maximum import tariff one member will apply to all other members.
NickC October 17, 2020
Acorn, Every (to 98% of global trade) nation trades under WTO rules, including the EU. You just cited an WTO judgement in the EU’s favour, for goodness sake!
There are no international trade treaties that supplant the WTO rules. None. The only additions to WTO rules (and subservient to them) are a state’s own commercial policy, and the terms and conditions of the businesses involved in a transaction..
If Boris screws this up now after doing so well he will be the last Tory PM for quite some time — Our future hangs on a good BREXIT, ideally on WTO terms.
I’d hate Boris to go down in history as the last great compromiser that sold his country short
Blinky October 16, 2020
We should never have started that Internal Markets Bill as it showed Bad faith on our part- and then Boris promising to walk on the 15th without a nod from the other side was not the best move either- it is now the 16th and now we will have to see what happens today?
But where are the great DD and IDS and Mr Fox who promised so much- they said the deal would be the easiest deal ever and that the EU would settle at the 11th hour- well I don’t see it- and if what is happening is Dom Cummings failed strategy then Boris should give him his marching papers in double quick time.
NickC October 16, 2020
Blinky, The clauses you refer to are only necessary because the EU has shown bad faith by making threats against the sovereignty of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. If the EU withdraws the threats then those clauses remain inoperative.
rose October 17, 2020
It was said the deal SHOULD be the easiest deal ever, IF the politics were right. That meant if the EU behaved themselves.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
Too true! We have had enough! We need to plan, to look forward in hope.
glen cullen October 16, 2020
Agree – now we need a big vision (and I don’t mean HS2)
BJC October 16, 2020
Have the EU conceded anything at all? Delay has clearly been very advantageous for the crowing EU, so they’ll be salivating as yet another deadline is missed. All this for <8% of GDP, so you have to wonder why we're so desperate for a FTA that benefits the EU. I suspect the terms of the dire WA are behind Mr Johnson's reluctance to walk away, especially without the IMB firmly in place.
BOF October 16, 2020
Quite. And how many are dying as a direct result of lockdown?
Lockdown kills.people.
BOF October 16, 2020
Should have been in reply to Sir PV!
Sharon October 16, 2020
Briefings for Britain, Brexit Watch and I’m sure others believe we’re going to be screwed over by Boris..
I pray they’re all wrong but I’m not holding my breath!
I would love for us to properly leave and then really go to town reforming the heavily Remainer occupied institutions and try to re-build a better functioning society and industry. And I don’t mean with the use of idealogical greencrap, but intelligently and well thought innovations.
And all the minority activists who have been actively driving a wedge through society and dividing it up into little boxes and trickling Marxism into our culture could be stopped with some serious debates.
One can but dream!
BOF October 16, 2020
Time to.walk away? What happened to yesterday?
Peter van LEEUWEN October 16, 2020
The sovereign UK HAS almost all the cards, with regard to dates. It can break its own deadline. It can even ask for extension of the transition period.
It does not have all the cards with regard to outcomes of negotiations. The EU27 have to serve their own interests and protecting its internal market against dumping from abroad is the most natural thing to do.
The UK has so far proven quite helpful in keeping the EU27 unified, which normally is never a given.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
‘THE SOVEREIGN UK’ – oh how I adore that phrase, and from the Continent!
Edward2 October 16, 2020
You are admitting that the EU is a protectionist bloc and is against free trade.
Dumping is an interesting word and in EU speak it really means, refusing citizens the life improving chance to buy goods from whatever source they want to buy from.
Most illuminating Peter
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
You know I bought a lb of Kerrygold butter in Johannesburg for 5d. Just who ‘dumps’ and destroys the local industry? The vicious, self-centred, nasty EU.
NickC October 16, 2020
PvL, Why do you suppose the UK is likely to engage in “dumping” any more than Canada does? And shouldn’t “dumping” be tackled at the WTO anyway?
steve October 16, 2020
PvL
“The EU27 have to serve their own interests”
The 27 that would not exist were it not for British sacrifice. Such ungratefulness.
graham1946 October 16, 2020
What you as an EU supporter regards as ‘dumping’ is in fact normal trading. The EU is a protection racket, mostly for inefficient farmers and producers and they know they cannot stand up to a competitive UK. If this is not so, why do they want to control us? They could just let us go and be glad to be free of a thorn in their side.
Peter van LEEUWEN October 16, 2020
@graham1946 You (UK) are free and always have been free to go, and I have been favoring the UK leaving for a long time. Nobody is keeping you here. You want to leave in some pick and chose way and the EU27 aren’t allowing that. That is all. Leave tomorrow and you’ve left. The EU has no power to keep you. What IS keeping you here?
Edward2 October 16, 2020
Pick and choose way…no Peter just a similar arrangement to the many non EU nations who trade happily and successfully with the EU.
Mark B October 17, 2020
PvL
Only our politicians wanted to pick and choose. We wanted to Leave, be friends, trade, and visit. Nothing else. We are not bitter just fed up at all the foot dragging and silly goings on. Now finally we might just get what we voted on over 4 years ago !
Try not to be too upset 🙂
Peter van LEEUWEN October 17, 2020
@Mark B:
Why didn’t you chose to elect better politicians? You claim to be a democracy after all.
I’m not upset, au contraire my friend. I have long held the view that Britian didn’t fit in the EU and used the 6 big opt-outs as illustration for that (Shcengen, EMU, Euro, Social charter, Charter fundamental rights, Judicial cooperation).
The EU has already moved on since Brexit.
Still a pity that the built up ballon of trust was punctured (try to puncture a bolloone in just a specific and limited way 🙂 ) taking us back to the era of the perfidious albion) No surprise then that the 27 heads of state were dissapointed and removed the term intensified negotiations from the draft council resolutions.
NickC October 17, 2020
PvL, Free to go?? Haahaha – are you serious? Or have you been asleep for the past four and a half years? The EU has put every stumbling block in our way to prevent us leaving, even going so far as to conspire with fifth columnists in the UK, and corrupt its own legislation.
Neither the EU’s own Art50 nor Lisbon has been adhered as the EU exercises its hostility and vindictiveness towards the UK. Barnier’s staircase leading to a Canada-style deal mysteriously disappeared when it looked like we might accept it. The EU moreover has openly declared that we must pay for the temerity of attempting to leave, aiming to retain the UK as an EU empire colony.
ukretired123 October 16, 2020
Fudge or Budge is what the EU wants and knows Boris has a history of this.
Time to get a grip and step up like Churchill or Maggie. For all her faults she was incorruptible and determined to win for the country. Paradoxically she was not in it to be loved but had a job to turn the country around. And does this country need leadership today!
Colin B October 16, 2020
Walk away, the UK has shown too much forbearance and started on the slippery slope of giving small concessions that will impact the UK mightily
RIP up the WA,, rangling over its terms will frustrate and weaken the UK, no self respecting UK govt can allow a foreign entity to control us in the manner that the WA does
Offer the EU a Canada Plus FTA on a take it or leave it basis, no need for further discussions or amendments – ensure Services are included
The UK must never allow itself to be subservient in the manner that the EU requires.
Encourage UK citizens to buy UK goods only, Anchor butter and Country Life butter would be a good start, and to eat more fish. Do we really need to import Rep of Ireland beef, Nbritish beef is just as good if not better
Northern Monkey October 16, 2020
Walk away AND give the speech about the Withdrawal Agreement and Trade Agreement being two sides of the same coin.
The HE’s choice should be between an imperfect trade agreement or losing any gains they made in the Withdrawal Agreement.
Personally I favour the “double no deal”, as it appears to be the only way that the EU will realise that the UK has departed and is now independent.
Jiminyjim October 16, 2020
There is speculation that Merkel has been convinced by a Downing Street mole that BJ is going to walk and will be replaced by Jeremy Hunt, who will immediately reverse Brexit using COVID as an excuse. It has been in the EU’s interest to delay things as long as possible from the very beginning, in the hope that the 2016 referendum could be reversed. If we show weakness now after more than four years, we are finished. More importantly for you, Sir John, BJ will in that case be the last ever Conservative PM
Everhopeful October 16, 2020
Having stolen the votes of millions this is the outcome one feared/expected but hoped against hope would not happen.
Well..it has and what madness will Boris now drag us into?
Everhopeful October 16, 2020
Maybe I should take that back?
He seems to have walked??
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
YES! Thank God!
A.Sedgwick October 16, 2020
I have no faith in this PM. Any deal he makes will be as lousy as the Withdrawal Agreement, which most of us knew left N.I. in the EU and the UK ultimately subject to ECJ.
Minor consolation I did not vote for him, in a rerun many more would not but it is unlikely they will have the option next time.
matthu October 16, 2020
A number of sources today confirmed that the EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier will seek to use the leverage of the EU’s energy market as a potential way of unblocking the UK’s resistence to granting European fishing fleets ongoing access to British waters.
I wondered how long that would take to happen. Shows why UK should not rely on wind energy if EU is seeking to gain leverage over UK from their energy supply!
Enough Already October 16, 2020
Seems like BoJo is turning into another Brexit liar just like May.
Wokinghamite October 16, 2020
An agreement would be much the best thing, and we should redouble our efforts to achieve that right until the last possible moment. But we are not afraid to come away without a deal if need be.
Caterpillar October 16, 2020
Redoubling efforts is a waste of time if both parties have strictly incompatible red lines. All one can do is seek narrower agreements in specific areas, but that goes against nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
Thank God! Boris has got only 1 thing right at last, but I would trade all the others for this one – WTO!
Billy Elliot October 16, 2020
Not so fast Mister….
He did not walk away.
Let’s see the situation again within a week or two shall we?
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
It’s over. We are out! They have to come crawling for a FTA – they will not. Rejoice!
glen cullen October 16, 2020
God I hope and pray you’re right
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
They snookered each other!
rose October 16, 2020
He can’t row back after this.
Billy Elliot October 16, 2020
Replying again..well now they are over.
But lets see still couple of weeks are they really over
Sea_Warrior October 16, 2020
Perhaps it’s time to do that – but also to give the EU a number of draft ‘mini-deals’ on a raft of subjects, so that the non-contentious areas of sensible co-operation can be maintained.
I think most of us foresaw that the EU would be unhelpful throughout this entire process. Leaving aside the issue of the Commons, for a moment, the right negotiating strategy with a beast of the EU’s nature would have been to deliver the A50 notification and then just leave. I now hope that the Conservative government will do everything it can to cast off one EU shackle after another – and, to use Managing Successful Programmes (MSP) language, ‘realise the benefits’ of Brexit. And then I’ll be hoping that other countries will follow our lead. Italy next?
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
Italy does not have a currency. Makes leaving nearly impossible as Bernard Connolly wrote decades ago. That’s why we fought so hard for Sterling. We won a lot of battles, any one of which, if lost, would have cost us the War.
IanT October 16, 2020
Yes, Italy would be good!
Then we can do a trade deal with the Italians in time for me to purchase my next (petrol) Alfa! If they left the Eurozone their cars would compete very well with the Germans. 🙂
Old Salt October 16, 2020
Talk and more talk of concessions, concessions and more concessions. What concessions were there on the way in.
Dare I mention the EU dear food policy to pay for the wine lakes and cheese mountains etc etc.
Our fishing not to mention gold and the CAP etc virtually given away and for what?
Mr Dimbleby at the referendum result, how many years ago and billions of our taxpayers hard earned money to the EU, declared “WE’RE OUT”. Out we are not and at this rate we never will be.
Promises and manifesto pledges to bring down immigration & take back control etc are
turning to dust.
I doubt I will ever live to see what the people voted for. Some democracy!
Billy Elliot October 16, 2020
Well at least yet he hasn’t done it…just said that EU “must come to us”
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
That’s it!
Terry October 16, 2020
Boris says he wanted a Canada style deal but the Canada style deal involves tariffs which could takes both sides years to work out- in fact it took the Canadians seven years to negotiate. I undrstood that in the transition talks we were looking for a closer deal than that with no tariffs?
Nigl October 16, 2020
Wow. Just seen Boris’s statement on the EU negs, pretty strong stuff, and for now I take back my criticisms.
Looks like he has listened to you Sir JR and a lot of us
formula57 October 16, 2020
He is not known to me as the people’s Blue Boris for nothing!
Everhopeful October 16, 2020
I think JR took him aside in the lobby!
Possibly by the ear?😷
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
👏👏👏👏
graham1946 October 16, 2020
Don’t celebrate too soon, words are cheap. We still have two and a half months to go. If we get to January without concessions to the EU demands, and just leave, I will join you and retract my earlier comment that he will cave in. Let’s see shall we? He talks tough to us, but melts in the face of Von der Leyen, to the extent that already his ‘deadline’ has passed without him withdrawing and it looks like he is going to talk to the EU some more next week, when he should have said enough is enough, come back when you are ready to offer the proper trade deal.
Everhopeful October 16, 2020
Gosh! Well!
Oooooh!
That was unexpected Boris!!
Everhopeful October 16, 2020
Now who will get us out of our new totalitarian web?
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
One jailbreak at a time!
Freeborn John October 16, 2020
Congratulations to Boris ; real leadership on the EU for the first time in three decades. John major started the rot which may have ended today.
The EU is about to lose all the benefits of a one-sided relationship that it accumulated over 30 years in dealings with incompetent British negotiators. Better that any future negotiations start from a clean slate.
Ian @Barkham October 16, 2020
The Prime Minister said: “From the outset we were totally clear that we wanted nothing more complicated than a Canada-style relationship based on friendship and free trade. To judge by the latest EU summit in Brussels that won’t work for our EU partners. They want the continued ability to control our legislative freedom, our fisheries, in a way that is completely unacceptable to an independent country.”
The Government keeps forgetting the EU does not want the UK to be free from their control. To many highly vocal self appointed naysayers keep giving the EU hope the UK wanting to leave, take back control, standing as an equal free trading nation as part of the World Community was an ideal the EU could defeat. The EU also knows the more games they play the more it will disrupt and cost the UK taxpayer.
agricola October 16, 2020
The basic problem is that the EU cannot get it into its head that post 1st Jan 2021 we will be a sovereign nation. Nor do I think it understands what a sovereign nation is. It is a nation that stands alone in terms of law, created by it’s Parliament alone with the power invested in it by the electorate. It may choose to acknowledge many international norms and abide by them, but that choice is in its own hands.
Therefore, how we support our industry, how we conduct our fishing in our territorial waters is at our discretion and ours alone. The support will be within WTO rules. Any fishing by EU boats will be under licence and by invitation.
As a member of the EU at present we have a tariffe free trade agreement with them and they with us. It would be a singularly petulent and stupid act of self harm on the part of the EU to fail to continue this arrangement .
I feel genuinely sorry for Spanish orange producers should they be denied the UK market due to the penal mindset of the EU. More than enough oranges are left to rot on the ground already without further difficulties created by the EU. Once the UK customer is lost to oranges from the USA, South Africa, Israel and elsewhere he will be very difficult to recapture. Spanish growers do not deserve it, nor does their country’s already very fragile economy.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
For those who missed it:
Prime Minister’s official spokesperson – “the trade talks are over. The EU have officially ended them. Only if the EU fundamentally changes position will it be worthwhile talking.”
Fred H October 16, 2020
Talks between the UK and EU over a post-Brexit trade agreement are “over”, Downing Street has said.
No 10 said there was “no point” in discussions continuing next week unless the EU was prepared to discuss the detailed legal text of a partnership.
Jiminyjim October 16, 2020
I’ve said here before that if BJ can deliver a clean Brexit without caving in to EU arrogance and threats, he’ll make up any ground he has lost over COVID.
Stick to it, BJ, and you’ll see your popularity rise. And as soon as you’ve dealt with this, you must sack the entire SAGE committee, commit to dealing with pollution but abandon any silliness about CO2 and then you’ll be getting somewhere.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, it’s now absolutely essential that you make clear that the WA is dead. It is a late WA, it is pushing up the daisies and has joined the choir celestial.
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
The EU/U.K. trade talks are over … and the £ has gone up! 😍
glen cullen October 16, 2020
Almost every senior cabinet minister has now openly said that the EU are acting irresponsible, that they’re in contempt, they’re not negotiating in good faith etc etc….so why on earth are we continuing to bargain with them ?
Lynn Atkinson October 16, 2020
But we are not.
James Wallace-Dunlop October 16, 2020
Yes
But even if there was about to be a sell out, we would expect some grandstanding before the climb down.
With May we would have been lost. Boris offers hope, but it is only Cummings at the table that makes me think we might really walk away.
Now, can we stop the Covid hysteria and unleash an independent UK ?
October 15, 2020
Thank you Sir John. However loyal you may be towards your party, and leader, the time has come to bang the table top and say ‘enough! – goodbye!’
October 16, 2020
+1
October 16, 2020
JR, you miss the point. He caved in three times. This clearly demonstrates he will not walk away! This is a failed negotiation from the first time he did not keep to his word of walking away.
He signed up to the same vassalage which he resigned from govt over! They were clapping his back and all smiles when he signed WA and PD! It meant more to him to be liked than acting in the national interest. What right minded person would sign the WA or PD other than a traitor like Mayhab? It was a bridge to rejoin not leave.
Prominent EU Figures publicly ridiculing him- our nation- for not walking away!
What are you actually doing about it?
October 16, 2020
Hope, Boris has announced today a (sort of) walk away. Sort of because he left the door open for an EU approach. It’s truly painful to watch the establishment stumble towards the realisations that EU cannot be trusted and they wouldn’t give us the steam off their rice pudding.
October 16, 2020
The EU will never come on their knees asking for an FTA. It’s over, we are out!
October 17, 2020
Nick, he never said he would sort of or might walk away, he said he would walk in October last year then signed the vassalage- as he called it, then walk in June then July and now he might walk. That is not a dead line to walk away.
Dutch PM Rutte says the U.K. has said many times they would walk and have not.
October 16, 2020
Reported, Merkel claims U.K. Should be allowed to have a certain degree of independence! The cheek of it! What else is hidden from us for her to make such a remark?
October 16, 2020
That’s what May asked for…. a charade to sell us.
October 17, 2020
And Johnson signed her vassalage!
October 16, 2020
Hello People of Wokingham
Full national lockdowns should ONLY be used against coronavirus as a last resort because of the ‘collateral damage’ on mental health, says WHO boss
But he said total lockdowns caused ‘collateral damage’ and should be avoided
In the Daily Mail
October 16, 2020
Yes, one country can try “banging the table” to twenty-seven others, all united, proud, sovereign, self-confident, historic lands, working together for peace and for prosperity.
Yes, it can try.
October 16, 2020
Billions in profitable trade for them selling into UK markets.
Millions of jobs especially in Germany and France.
Yes let them throw it away
October 16, 2020
Martin, It is not a case of banging any table. The UK decided to become independent of the EU. It’s time the EU respected that, even if you can’t.
October 16, 2020
My goodness. I take back everything. Old Blowers has done it! Brexit is actually going to happen! Can’t wait to read tomorrow’s post SJR. Should be a corker! The Doomsters and Gloomsters can try to claim that this is all just theater. Let them, because the light from Boris John-Sun is simply blinding!
October 16, 2020
+1
October 15, 2020
Publish the free trade agreement we are offering and walk away.
Then every producer who will be subject to tariffs and hold ups whose product is included in the FTA will see it is the EU who is costing them business.
October 16, 2020
A ‘Good Deal’ is impossible, not because of lack of good faith or effort, but because of the interaction between politics, and the unknowability of the economic value of the default position.
The 2016 referendum changed the default position of the UK from trading with the EU as a Member State to trading under WTO terms. With many uncertainties about future developments in technology, industrial restructuring, and other trade agreements, nobody can be sure that this difference for the UK would amount to more than a few percentage points of GDP either way. The EU believes that trading under WTO terms will be somewhat worse for the UK: the UK believes it will be somewhat better for the UK. Given the inherent unknowability and the difference in beliefs, from an economic perspective for the UK the value of trading with the EU under WTO terms, or trading as a Member State have to be regarded as essentially the same.
But politically they are exactly opposite. The EU is only interested in a trade deal if the value to the UK is significantly less than the value of trading as a Member State. The UK is only interested in a trade deal if the value to the UK is significantly greater than trading on WTO terms.
And so a deal is impossible. There is no landing zone for a ‘Good Deal’. For the EU the default position is a ceiling for the value to the UK. For the UK, the default position is a floor.
Trade on WTO terms is the only possible outcome.
Fig. Why a ‘God Deal’ is impossible
Increasing value to the UK
^
| ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
| ////////////// Zone for Deals acceptable to the UK /////////
| ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
| ———————Floor for a deal acceptable to the UK ———-
|
|
| | Default position
| | | | ———————- Ceiling for a deal acceptable to the EU ——— | ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
| ////////////// Zone for Deals acceptable to the EU ////////
| ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
October 16, 2020
Giles B, You are right. And the fact that the EU would not give us a good (or even a standard) free trade deal was bleedin’ obvious at least as far back as 2013. I wrote about it back then and there were very many like me judging by the comments Gerard Batten put the arguments for ignoring Art50 and unilaterally leaving, into book form in 2014.
October 16, 2020
A free trade deal would be less value than being a member state to any country that wanted to be a member state.
It is not less value to a country that does not want to be a member state.
October 16, 2020
You are correct.
Politician lose all common sense once in Government.
October 17, 2020
oh! the oxygen of power!
October 16, 2020
He has to leave before US election. If Biden gets in he will try to pressure Johnson to remain in the EU! He was Obama’s side kick who wanted back of queue after briefing from fake tories Cameron/Osborn team.
October 16, 2020
Trump will win.
October 16, 2020
Hello Peoples of Wokingham
‘It’s a massive claim; I think the pandemic is fundamentally over’
Former chief scientific advisor with Pfizer Mike Yeadon has said he believes the coronavirus pandemic is drawing to a close, despite rising cases in parts of the UK.
His is with Jukia Hartkey Brewer Talk Radio on YOU TUBE
Truth about the claims scaring us all to death:
Soaring infections, teeming hospital wards, and terrifying death rates… but do the numbers justifying crippling new lockdowns REALLY stand up to scrutiny?
Ross Clark in the Daily Mail
October 16, 2020
Might I suggest, Sir Pat Vac, that by hijacking a thread on leaving the EU you are fanning the flames of fearmongering about the virus?
A time and a place.
October 15, 2020
Agreed. End the talks. That; or be removed from Office.
Or is the Tory Party still a Remainer Party?
October 16, 2020
The UK has left the European Union, months ago.
You are getting exactly the mess for which you voted, and about which you were patiently and repeatedly warned.
Own it, and smile.
It’s what you always wanted.
October 16, 2020
I’m smiling! Saying te deums since midday!
October 16, 2020
Martin, No we have not left the EU. We swapped treaties – TFEU and TEU out, WA in – so the EU remains in control of the UK until at least 31 Dec 2020. You’re getting exactly the mess you and Remain always wanted – the UK as a colony of the EU. It’s what Remain has wasted 4 years and £millions on. Own it, and smile – whilst you can.
October 16, 2020
Martin – my post did not pass moderation. I’ll leave you guessing as to what I had to say; for Sir John is more of a gentleman than I.
October 17, 2020
I for one am very chipper about current events. The EU want nothing more than our humiliation with their vendettas and punishment beatings. Merkel talks abut us having ‘a bit of independence’. No not a bit of independence but complete independence. We have left the corrupt EU and as they said a few years ago…’things can only get better.’
October 15, 2020
Sir John. In an ideal world with you and like wise committed colleagues at the head of the govern.ent then the country irrespective of which way you voted would at least have the certain knowledge that despite all valiant efforts it would be the time to walk away from the table.
Our pm and his cabinet colleagues sadly are not meeting let alone exceeding our expectations. We are under their guidance remained the EU patsy totally at their back and call dispite all the huffing and puffing.
It all leads up to the question all of us ourselves every day ” who actually is it that is controlling and running this country”? For sure it ain’t our PM and his government.
If bottles out on this one he will leave the country dead in the water and a laughing stock internationally “as usual all talk no action”
October 15, 2020
Yes, it is rather difficult to see how the PM can do anything else now. To fail to do that next week would be to show such weakness in backtracking on a deadline that the EU would simply continue to wait for further concessions.
The political fallout of concessions now would not be pretty – the electorate are watching closely – and they’re much more savvy now than they have ever been – especially when it comes to Brexit sell-outs and anything that looks remotely like BRINO.
Time to walk away.
October 15, 2020
Agreed. 4 years wasted.
October 15, 2020
Walk away before 11.59 pm.
There will be time in the real outside world in which to negotiate a free trade agreement if we find we want one. But I don’t think we will, because the other side of the table have made it clear we can’t have one.
October 15, 2020
Without doubt the best post you’ve ever written Sir John….one I completely agree with
October 15, 2020
Indeed but why would anyone ever have expected the EU bureaucrats to negotiate in good faith? This given their record and their desire to décourager les autres? We saw how they gave Cameron his pathetic & worthless “thin gruel”. Which the foolish dope accepted and advised the voters to accept. Fortunately the voters showed more guts and more sense.
I certainly did not expect good faith from EU bureaucrats. Boris has alas mad it far worse by signing the appalling W/A handcuff treaty. This having be put in an appalling position by 9% May, Bercow, the Supreme Court and all the appalling Benn Act Traitors.
October 16, 2020
The antics of the political class have cost us billions in the last 4 years and 4 months. I want to know the figure because we need contrition, we need some humility too – the people had the measure of the EU before the politicians did. They must defer to the people when they don’t know what to do.
Next up:
1 greencrap
2 Covid
We know what to do.
October 16, 2020
Lynn, That is exactly right – ” the people had the measure of the EU before the politicians did”. Well said.
October 16, 2020
Indeed. But we still have not had any remote contrition or apology from the dire John Major, the establishment or all the “experts” for taking us into the ERM and the attempt to push us into the EURO – so do not hold your breath!
October 16, 2020
They are condemned out of their own mouths. Any normal person would be mortified to be exposed as treacherous. May and Major just motor on.
October 16, 2020
Boris was not put in a appalling position by anyone. He called an election based on his own WA / threat of leaving with no deal and won a majority so now needs to enact it. This includes, I am afraid, leaving on WTO terms at the end of the year. I think that would be disastrous for British industry but I accept democracy. The truth is I don’t think he will, this is a man not averse to breaking his word, breaking the law or missing a deadline. He is also a very weak person who yields to popular criticism, witness his misguided approach to CV19. The WA contains irreconcilable goals, it is nothing to do with good faith or bad faith. It confirms both the sovereignty of the UK, the integrity of the free market and an aim of free trade (access for the UK to a single market whose rules we will not follow). We are the weaker party in this negotiation led by a weak PM. There will be a fudged compromise which Mr Johnson will try to sell as a victory
October 16, 2020
He was put in an appalling position by May and the Remain Parliament.
October 16, 2020
Villaking, Whilst you talk much sense about covid19, on Brexit you are way off. Boris was forced into the position of going along with the WA because it had to be accepted before the Dec 2019 general election, since the EU would not start again and the Remain Parliament stymied him. He kept his word with both the EU and with Parliament despite winning an 80 seat majority subsequently. And which law has Boris been “breaking”? He hasn’t.
Only 12.6% of UK GDP derives from exports to the EU, all the rest comes from trading with ourselves (the vast majority nearly 70%) and with the rest of the world. By leaving we gain control of over 100% of our GDP, with the risk that the 12.6% EU element may decline – so the gains are massively more than the risks. And that’s just economics. We also gain our precious independence, which tops the lot.
October 15, 2020
Agreed! Get on with it!
October 16, 2020
And it seems Boris is going to do exactly that.
Well done Boris!
October 16, 2020
But he still hasn’t walked …..all talk
I’d be the first to give him a well done – but not yet
October 15, 2020
Our host and the other Leavers are now in blame-shifting finger-pointing mode. Of course it’s nothing to do with them. Many of us predicted that this would be how it ends.
October 16, 2020
The whole country voted for this, the whole country including our host and other Leave MPs predicted this, but the knouckleheaded Remainers have cost the country billions and its reputation with a year 4 month tantrum.
Time for all Remainers to either shut up or leave – your precious EU is just a few miles away and you can buy houses for the price of a car.
October 16, 2020
Dear Lynn,
Have your «Full Yes to Leave without a FTA with the EU» now and, sometime after January 1, 2021, you will also get an end to Ireland’s Partition and Scotland’s Independence.
Kent County is becoming a gigantic lorry park, just as Project Fear warned you.
Sovereignty doesn’t fill bellies at present and future UK lockdowns, no matter what tier you’re in…
October 16, 2020
Dear Fernando,
Have your «Sovereignty doesn’t fill bellies at present» now and, sometime after January 1, 2021, you will also get dissension within the EU as Italy, Eire, Spain, Portugal and Greece realise they’re being left out to dry, once the Brexit fake unity has disappeared.
October 19, 2020
Dear NickC,
Please don’t forget to invest in your stellar new “Customs Sector”, or to feed your monthly Rishi checks into haulage rental business: it helps to Make Britain Great Again!!
October 16, 2020
Will Only because you knew the EU never wanted us to succeed.
October 16, 2020
Will, I wanted a WTO deal right from the start. So the only people to blame are Remains who have wasted over 4 years and £millions trying to overturn our democratic vote to Leave. And given us the odious WA to remind us how bad Remain would have been.
October 16, 2020
Correct
October 16, 2020
You know, it’s a miracle, that we have won. Sir John was in a tiny minority fighting our cause in that Remainer hell hole that once was our Sovereign Parliament, and will be again soon. Some had the head, some had the heart, and could not see it out, but thank God there were enough with both to see us through.
We are in their debt to the same tune as we were to the Great Admiral and the Great General, Nelson and Wellington.
We can never repay that debt, but we can acknowledge it.
October 15, 2020
They obstruct their own path.
We can go far more pleasant ways than wading through treacle just to reach closer to their nonsense.
Let’s walk away fresh, free and better.
October 15, 2020
Yes, 15th October is the line in the sand, final, absolute end of the full negotiation.
Walk away and you have 2.5 months to conclude mini deals with those EU countries who want to deal with us.
Italian wine and Czech cars seem pretty good these days.
As a fall back, Californian wine and Japanese cars not so bad either.
We have a choice-use it.
October 16, 2020
I would go Australian wine and Korean cars… Wow there’s a wide choice of non-EU products out there… Who would have believed that.
It does leave a bit of a hole in UK exports though 🙁
October 16, 2020
No hole in UK exports. Because we will not be imposing punitive EU tariffs on imports from the rest of the world, they will treat our exports better, and our product will be more competitive.
Happy days! (Minus greencrap and Covid)
October 16, 2020
We need to walk away but the central point of the EU’s single market is you can not negotiate with individual countries.
One in all in, one out all out.
October 16, 2020
English wine, and even Chilean can be good…Australian mostly great.
October 15, 2020
Agreed.
It is helpful that covid lockdown news has top spot in all the media and failure to apply Brexit deadline promises is subsidiary news. It reminds of the quote about ‘a good day to bury bad news’.
October 15, 2020
agreed just walk away, well said. and defend our fishermen who are being attacked at sea by the French.
October 15, 2020
How much of the WA do you you think we can get out of if the EU is breaking it by not negotiating, as agreed, in good faith?
October 16, 2020
The whole.
October 15, 2020
None of this governments promises are being kept.
October 16, 2020
They promised to honour the 2016 referendum – they still haven’t
October 16, 2020
They have now …
October 16, 2020
give it another 24hrs than we’ll know
October 15, 2020
Lord Frost has tweeted “Disappointed by the #EUCO conclusions on UK/EU negotiations.
Surprised EU is no longer committed to working “intensively” to reach a future partnership as agreed with
@vonderleyen
on 3 October.
David Frost
@DavidGHFrost
·
3h
2/3 Also surprised by suggestion that to get an agreement all future moves must come from UK. It’s an unusual approach to conducting a negotiation.
David Frost
@DavidGHFrost
·
3h
3/3 PM
@BorisJohnson
will set out UK reactions and approach tomorrow in the light of his statement of 7 September.
Most of us could have told him that years ago. Do we get to get on with being a success now
October 16, 2020
This appalling UK government has reneged on a treaty agreed only a few months ago, something my hero Maggie T would never have done. No surprise the EU is now being very wary, Cummings has shot this country in the foot
October 16, 2020
This “appalling UK Government” has stuck to the letter of the agreement and adhered to UK law as voted for by our Parliament which I understand from previous legal cases is sovereign.
No harm, no foul.
October 16, 2020
Cummings has saved the country from the EU.
October 16, 2020
She wouldn’t have signed it in the first place.
Boris only signed it because of all the traitorous MPs and the courts.
It was the price he paid to get the early election.
Now he can show EU bad faith he can rip up the WA and PD.
October 16, 2020
He should have ripped up the WA and PD midnight 15th October if he had any honour at all
October 16, 2020
Take the win.
October 16, 2020
+1
So true, but how quickly conveniently forget.
Its the utter mess caused by an unruly unrepresented parliament that gives the EU hope they can defeat the UK and keep them under their control. Never forget Blair was the advisor to Macron
October 16, 2020
+1
October 16, 2020
+1
October 15, 2020
The difference between ‘espoused theory’ and ‘theory in use’.
October 15, 2020
We hold all the cards. We can do a deal over a cup of tea. Easiest deal in the world.
The German car industry will tell Angela Merkel….
How the mighty claims have crashed and burned.
Brexit is now about lorry parks and portaloos.
It really is going to be straightforward to overturn it.
October 16, 2020
It’s possible you will be right and we will rejoin. 2 things will need to happen. 1. Brexit will have to be seen to be a failure under its own terms – no trade deals, no saving of money to the EU, no control over food, fish etc, and 2. The eurozone will have to be a clear success.
You need the eurozone to clearly outperform the U.K. economy in the next few years. Otherwise you’re stuffed.
October 16, 2020
Even the BBC’s pro EU correspondent yesterday conceded that the EU would struggle to bear the cost of having no trade deal with the EU.
Cutting of their collective economic noses to save the political face.
October 16, 2020
EU business is on he ceiling. They were promised that we would be destroyed.
October 16, 2020
To some extent it would be straightforward to reverse – the balance of the public consensus has probably already done that.
However, I think that the European Union will understandably and rationally revert to De Gaulle’s position re the UK – and it only needs one member to do that anyway.
It would probably have to content itself with EEA participation.
October 16, 2020
Even Starmer knows that there will never be a reversal of public opinion. That’s why he will ‘not fight to rejoin’.
October 16, 2020
In your dreams, Martin.
October 16, 2020
Can you write about anything else? Obsessive focus on lorries and toilets is getting boring Andy.
October 16, 2020
Have you seen the panic in the letter from EU industry to their boneheaded ‘leaders’? You were wrong and as you always are.
October 16, 2020
You need to pay a daily visit to Guido. There was a story a day or two about how EU industry bodies had just told Merkel, and Marcon, and …
October 16, 2020
I’m afraid it’s true.
This was mishandled terribly. We did not have the leaders to take us out.
October 16, 2020
He was cornered like a rat. We WON. Rejoice!
October 16, 2020
“It really is going to be straightforward to overturn it.” Andy
Not by you or your kind chum!
October 16, 2020
Andy : “We hold all the cards. We can do a deal over a cup of tea. Easiest deal in the world.”
It was always logical to expect the EU to want to trade easily with a nation with whom it has a £100m/YEAR trade surplus. But in the EU politics and emotion trumps common sense.
Also we were not expecting the EU to make statements such as
“You can have sovereignty over your waters, but the fish is a different matter entirely.”
It is clear that the EU is not negotiating in good faith and is therefore in breech of the WA/PD as well as in blatant contravention of UN Resolution 3281 Article 32 making negotiations and a fair agreement impossible.
Andy : “Brexit is now about lorry parks and portaloos.”
Kent has been in need of this for years. French internal disputes have caused lorry parks on Kent motorways many times in the past and the French government have taken no action, again in clear breech of EU rules to keep the borders open. We would need these lorry parks whether we were in or out of the EU.
However, hopefully in the longterm trade with the EU will decline reducing our reliance on the troublesome Dover/Calais crossing.
I trust that Ireland has sorted its proposed direct link with the rest of the EU and will no longer be relying on UK roads and the Dover/Calais crossing.
October 16, 2020
You can expect more use for lorry parks as it’s all the world to a china orange that French fishermen will start blockading Calais when we take back control of our fish from the CFP.
October 16, 2020
Sorry, I meant £100bn/YEAR trade surplus…
October 16, 2020
Andy, Why do you continue to lie about what Liam Fox said? It does not impress us, and merely confirms your opinion cannot be trusted. This is what Fox actually said (quoted from the Guardian, July 2017):
“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history. We are already beginning with zero tariffs, and we are already beginning at the point of maximal regulatory equivalence, as it is called. In other words, our rules and our laws are exactly the same. . . . The only reason that we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics. . . . We can of course survive with no deal“.
What Fox said is reasonable. What you say is blatantly false.
October 15, 2020
But will he?
October 15, 2020
At least Andy Burnham mentioned the lack of help freelancers have been getting through all of this. Strange isn’t it natural Conservative voters and the only politician speaking up for them is Labour.
The lock downs are nonsense now. It’s clear that the ruling class are useless. I actively disobey from now on, as will most people.
October 16, 2020
Burnham is not speaking up for conservatives. He is just trying to get more money for his patch than for anyone else’s. If he gets it, he will be happy with the authoritarian left position of shutting down the country and not worrying about where all this money is to come from.
October 16, 2020
Rose, True. Burnham is copying SNP tactics.
October 15, 2020
Long past time to walk away.
October 16, 2020
about 3 years?
October 16, 2020
-About 45 years and perhaps only +£500b (billion) added to the national debt, for the ride.
£500 billion whats that in “cheap renewable power” or re-invested in high quality, high tech, high value, high gdp per capita growth, training our own and minimal immigration in a sustainable UK.
October 15, 2020
But he won’t will he.
He’s in thrall to the globalist and will betray us.
October 16, 2020
He’s cornered like a rat because the Great Lord Frost has told the nation and the world of the EU contempt.
He might have no option but to do the right thing.
October 15, 2020
Covid is the main thing now- transition talks have slipped down the agenda so I think they are just wrapping things up
October 16, 2020
CV-19. God’s gift to the Left according to Jane Fonda.
Average age of death by CV-19 82 – the average life expectancy 81. You’ve more chance of being alive WITH CV-19 than dead without it !!!
October 15, 2020
Judging by the attitude on display at the EU Council meeting, I would say that further negotiation would be a waste of time and effort.
The only sensible course is to end the talks, repeal the 2020 Act and go to WTO rules.
It might be a good idea, in order to assist Australia (and irritate China) to import some of the Ausie coal that China doesn’t want. I think it’s about time that we increased our commitment to our English speaking friends.
If the PM bottles this, he will have lost my vote forever.
October 16, 2020
I’m afraid I feel the same way, and that’s after more than 40 years of voting Conservative and working (very hard) for them.
October 16, 2020
+1
October 16, 2020
Boris Johnson has said he would “rather be dead in a ditch” than agree to extend Brexit….but extend anything else – yes certainly.
October 16, 2020
“If the PM bottles this”
……he has.
October 16, 2020
He has NOT!
October 16, 2020
+1 I’ve had enough of being lied to by successive Conservative leaders.
October 15, 2020
One of the best lessons we received as parents is not to threaten to do something with a child if you’re not prepared to follow through on it if things don’t go right. If Boris never intended to walk away he shouldn’t have threatened it. He really has no choice now but to walk away and get on with it.
Let’s face it nothings moving for a year anyway if not longer and we need to get more self-sufficient, finding out what is necessary and what we need to make or import from the rest of the World if the EU want to slam the door.
October 16, 2020
A threat is only a threat is the other side think it is a possibility (remember Corbyn and the nuclear button).
Use it or lose it. Walk away, can always come back later under different circumstances if genuinely appropriate.
October 16, 2020
+1
October 15, 2020
We should have ended the ‘talks’ a year ago. Offered the EU a ‘take it or leave it’ FTA and gone to WTO. It has always been obvious that the bitter EU will not contemplate any arrangement under which we might prosper, so the only way to prosper is in spite of them. It is a mystery why we have wasted all this time discussing fisheries and control by one party of the other’s industrial policy, since these form no part of trade deals elsewhere. Even if we made these concessions there are 27 EU members states, the EU Parliament and the ECJ, all with a veto to demand more concessions.
October 16, 2020
+1
October 15, 2020
The PM needs not only to end the talks, but immediately to tear up the Withdrawal Agreement and the NI Protocol. He should also sack any Tory MPs who pretend to have ‘scruples’ about their fictional idea of international law – an agreement the foreign counterparty is clearly intending to abuse as an aggressive act against our country’s national independence does not meet any standards of international law.
October 16, 2020
Agreed.
Also repudiate the May/Duncan defence agreements that doubtless are more about defending the Evil Empire than the UK.
October 16, 2020
The WA falls.
October 16, 2020
Agree
October 15, 2020
Was it ever negotiating in good faith? Before January of this year, the negotiations seemed to be about thwarting the will of the UK public by keeping us in the EU. Since then, it has been about showing other members that leaving will be made as difficult and costly as possible.
That’s a great organisation to be a member of, isn’t it!
October 15, 2020
Do you make this point more widely – in Parliament, to whoever will listen to you that is senior in your party and to the media? As well as on this site.
Reply Of course and this site is public!
October 16, 2020
Agreed, and there’s certain things we should do on 1st January:
(1) Withdraw recognition of the unelected European Commission. Henceforth we would negotiate only with individual Member States – especially on fishing.
(2) Inform the European Commission that they must ensure that no delays are caused to UK exporters. We would reciprocate. If they fail, we would make no further payments to the EC and might scrap the entire Withdrawal Agreement.
(3) To achieve this happy outcome, what the EC would have to do is:
– Publish PDQ all tariffs and quotas that will apply from 1st January
– Specify the paperwork and data that they require from our exporters
– Move towards the concept of trusted traders
– Check in detail only a small percentage of lorry loads and containers coming from UK. My information is that only 2% of US containers coming through Rotterdam are inspected in detail. What’s good enough for America is good enough for us.
It concerns me that Mr Gove is planning to overcome EC bloody mindedness by paying a large fee for extra lorries. That’s the wrong approach. Rough wooing is what is required.
October 16, 2020
Lindsay
‘we’ are powerless to do anything. The way this will play out is that Johnson will capitulate to french demands, it will be BRINO, cons loose the next general election in utter disgrace, and then ‘we’ install a patriotic party.
Until then people will not take any notice of Boris Johnson.
October 16, 2020
RE One. The guiding principle of the EU is no individual negotiation so that will not fly however rationale we believe it to be. We negotiate with the bear not its cubs.
To run with your point on the commission though, I am sure that Russia and a Trump led US might be open to querying the legitimacy of the unelected EU Council on the world stage. China might just join in and then there is momentum.
October 16, 2020
Absolutely, Sir John.
Cessation of talks should be announced today, with confirmation that, in the light of the EU’s utter lack of real intention to accept the UK as a sovereign independent nation, the WA and all that goes with it no longer applies.
October 16, 2020
Pominoz
Personally I couldn’t give a rat’s ass what Johnson does now, I shall ignore anything he does or says. His promise was broken yesterday. Time’s up.
October 16, 2020
hear hear
October 16, 2020
It’s hardly a surprise that the EU is acting in this manner but Johnson knows this because he’s also acting in the same manner. I have no doubt the EU and Johnson are singing from the same hymn sheet but deliberately crafting the veneer of two opposing parties for domestic consumption. This PM is not batting for the UK, he’s batting for the EU by embracing their strategy
Of course Johnson’s not to be trusted. He never was Every Tory leader since MT has been utterly without substance or principle.
I have no doubt he will betray the aim of the Brexit campaign which was to secure our full departure from the EU and become once more a fully independent, self-governing and sovereign nation without outside interference from supra-national bodies of any kind
He showed his true colours in Summer by endorsing the Marxist thugs from the US and in so doing slandered tens of millions of our fellow citizens by playing the race card against them.
He’s just another London-centric, smug, slimy, two-faced, nasty progressive who despises white, working folk. What a total fraud. Worst than Blair, Brown and Corbyn and Starmer. At least we can see their hate and harmful intent against the majority population
October 16, 2020
DOM
Excellent +1
October 16, 2020
Dom,
Agreed. Who would resign from govt over vassalage of our nation then sign up to the same document!
Walk away from talks and ditch WA and PD.
Cameron laid traps not to prepare to leave EU and May did every underhand dishonest trick to prevent UK departure. Both acted as traitors to our country. Unbelievable that anyone voted for this party at the last election.
Mays deal dead, Get Brexit done, oven ready deal…etc. Those who believed him and the two traitors before were idiots.
October 16, 2020
Well said DOM.
October 16, 2020
So right Dom. The ONLY reason I voted Conservative this time was because I believed Johnson when he said we would leave the EU and if a good trade deal wasn’t available it would be WTO. With the choice on the ballot paper I wouldn’t have voted at all if I knew what I know now. Unless Farage stands next time I am not voting.
October 16, 2020
+1
October 16, 2020
Also +1.
We were promised the spontaneous brio and “never surrender” of the new Churchill. What we got is Mrs May 2.0 to hold us on a course to carefully-calculated subjugation.
A full-fledged confidence trick.
The Conservatives must now rebrand as the party of Hobson’s choice.
October 16, 2020
So true. Nothing but empty promises. Pathetic.
October 16, 2020
+1
October 16, 2020
But he is not going to walk away, is he. Because people like you can shout from the sidelines with no responsibility for what’s coming. The PM has seen how dependent our trade is on a deal, and he knows he has to do one. But I know you don’t care, Mr Redwood, yet another Tory leader you’ve undermined with your fantasy that Britain (uniquely in the world except North Korea) doesn’t need trade deals, you must be so proud of yourself
October 16, 2020
The EU does not want a trade deal.
Want it wants is a treaty that we can never get out of that will always give them control.
October 16, 2020
Our trade is dependent only on consumer demand, as is that of every other nation, and your opinion if anyone wants it.
October 16, 2020
Shire Tory, All that trade deals do is to modify the commercial policy of the participants. The actual framework of global trade is governed by WTO rules (for 98% of global trade). Even the EU’s trade is governed by WTO rules.
Clearly, then, trade deals are not necessary. But you know as well as I do that the EU is not just a trade deal – it’s all the dirigiste baggage that comes with it, which is the problem. And neither I, nor you, nor Boris, can force the EU to have a trade deal with us.
October 16, 2020
Too late, he’s already broken his promise.
The only hope you have is to replace him immediately by the likes of IDS, one of the very few who won’t take any sh*t from the french.
Even then it’s doubtful the conservatives would win the next general election. Nobody will forget how Mr De Pfeffel humiliated this country in front of his beloved french cousins.
Personally I think the conservatives are finished.
October 16, 2020
Soon there are going to be mass demonstrations to get this government out and I will be joining them.
I shall not be joining in the riots, of course.
The is the worst government and the worst PM in British History.
October 16, 2020
No Longer Anon, No, I think Boris is a long way from being the worst PM. He was landed with the WA problem by Theresa May. Like most of our loser PMs (and MPs) he has tended to sell out to the EU (eg the WA, though there were extenuating circumstances).
I would rank May as the worst (because there’s documentary evidence she lied), very closely followed by Ted Heath and Tony Blair, then David Cameron, John Major, Gordon Brown, Harold Wilson, Boris. Of course the best by far was Margaret Thatcher, despite her many faults (as we all have).
October 16, 2020
Don’t walk, but run as fast as you can away from the dreaded Eu, it’s fairly obvious to a blind man that the dreaded eu wants to drag the negotiations out even further so as to keep us connected one way or another, we voted out and that should mean out
October 16, 2020
Hello People of Wokingham – the Prime Minister has said and written a lot of things. He said a 2nd National lockdown would be catastrophic of the economy (as if the first one wasn’t). But he is pushing us into one for no goos reason.
Approximately 1500 people die a day in Britain – yesterday the recorded Covid deaths were 138
(died of any cause 28 days after a positive tests according to the Government own website)
Last 3 days 143, 137 , 138 death . For this we are killing the economy and freedom
Ivor Cummins has excellent analysis of the statistics on his You Tube channel.
October 16, 2020
By the way the Queen’s not wearing a mask.
A silent but subtle protest?
October 16, 2020
Everything the royal family does is officially approved by government. They don’t act independently. Even Henry Windsor’s activism is officially sanctioned.
Look and you will see. British leaders hate Britain
October 16, 2020
She just wears a head scarf when riding and always has.
October 16, 2020
We all did when I worked in a racing stable. Headscarfs to ride work.
October 16, 2020
“Queen not wearing a mask”.
No she was not, but to protect her every single person she was to come close to had already been tested.
Unlike the vast majority in the Country who actually need to get out and about.
A very expensive visit just to unveil a plaque, was it really worth it ?
October 16, 2020
Funny you should point that out – – HM has flagged her view very subtly before!
October 16, 2020
And she was indoors. And belongs to a high risk age group.
October 16, 2020
.and thus endeth the easiest negotiations ever …..
October 16, 2020
They should have been easy negotiations. But what our politicians never seemed to realise was that these were not normal trade negotiations, the EU wanted to ensure that we wouldn’t prosper after leaving. They were prepared to suffer unnecessary hardship themselves in order to achieve this objective. The only course was to break cleanly and return to trade negotiations when the EU had come to their senses.
October 16, 2020
Indeed; the only common sense approach.
October 16, 2020
but it was 7 years with Canada!
October 16, 2020
They weren’t starting from the position of alignment we were. Ours could have been done very quickly but it was never going to be because the EU didn’t want us to prosper – even though it says in article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty that they must foster peace and prosperity on their borders..
October 16, 2020
I’m sure you’re wholly supportive of the EU’s strategy.
October 16, 2020
Newmania, Like Andy, you lie about what Liam Fox said. There is no excuse – I, and others, have told you what Fox actually said, on here – and it’s easy to look up on the internet if you need to check.
October 16, 2020
Should? Nice soft talk as usual.
Nothing assertive or determined of course, why not ‘must’?
That wouldn’t do would it, mustn’t sound demanding.
October 16, 2020
TP, you’re wrong, because in the context it has been used our host is being assertive and demanding.
verb
1.
used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone’s actions.
“he should have been careful”
October 16, 2020
Yes.
October 16, 2020
Agreed. Johnson indeed looks more and more like a Prime Windbag than a Prime Minister.
October 16, 2020
Yes, Sir Patrick Vaccine, the Queen’s non-wearing of a mask was indeed a subtle message of hope to us all. Good on Her Majesty!
Today we read that some people are upset by the fact that Her Majesty didn’t wear a mask. The explanation given yesterday when the visit was first reported was that the Queen needed to be heard by those she was speaking to. HM, like the majority of us, will not be muzzled.
(Remember her ‘question’ to dinner companions pre-Brexit? ‘Give me three good reasons why Britain should be part of Europe’.)
October 16, 2020
Regrettably like so many people in this country the EU doesn’t believe Boris, or probably more like the hidden remainers that infest the corridors of power whispering nasties in his ear.
October 16, 2020
I said straight after Boris’ election The UK should have said firmly to the EU that if they were serious about doing a sensible deal then they must replace Barnier who had proved himself beyond this task. I fear that as usual I am being proved right and I’m surprised this isn’t discussed more elsewhere.
October 16, 2020
we all think we are right who post on here!
October 16, 2020
I am delighted they did not replace Barnier. The EU needed to reveal is intractability in no uncertain terms in order for the British PM to be snookered and to be forced to concede a clean Brexit to the millions who voted for it.
October 16, 2020
What’s the betting that Boris bottles it? To Brexit or not to Brexit; with or without a C19 get-out excuse clause.
October 16, 2020
Has he bottled it? According to the official text at https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-on-brexit-negotiations-16-october-2020; I would say Boris has bottled it for the third time.
I have said many times on this site that the UK voluntarily left the EU. The EU did not throw the UK out of the EU Club. An Article 50 exit from the Club does not guarantee anything for a leaving member’s future association with the EU Club. The current pompous arrogant UK government, that still thinks we are the global big noise of the 19th Century, seems to think it does.
Ironically, it will undoubtedly be the very people that voted “leave” and this form of economic suicide, that will take the brunt of the pain of a no-deal Brexit.
October 17, 2020
Odd you think asking for a mutually beneficial free trade agreement with the EU is pompous and arrogant by our government.
Similar to ones the EU has recently agreed with other major non EU nations.
October 17, 2020
Acorn, The EU demanding it must rule a neighbouring country is not arrogant in which way? We’re just asking for a free trade deal, like Canada did, which is neither arrogant nor pompous.
And actually you will find that Lisbon has much to say on how the EU ought to conduct itself with neighbouring states, and it certainly doesn’t cover the EU’s vindictiveness and hostility towards the UK.
October 16, 2020
How about giving your prime minister some slack.
Breaking a deadline is not quite as bad as breaking a treaty and possibly violating international law.
October 16, 2020
One deadline certainly, two or three incompetent, more is a sacking offence.
Bye!
October 16, 2020
You should know, the EU breaks Treaties and international law on a regular basis. That God we are free! I forgive Boris everything but it is Cummings, Frost and. Handful of MPs on all sides of the House, including our host, who are the heroes.
Thank you with all my heart.
October 16, 2020
Is the EU acting in the spirit of Article 8.1 of its own Lisbon Treaty? I don’t think so.
October 16, 2020
The Withdrawal Agreement isn’t a treaty.
What are the penalties for breaking international law?
Do we get sent to prison?
October 16, 2020
PvL, We are where we are due to the EU’s obsession with its own power structure – and its foolish reliance on Remain fellow travellers within the UK. The EU has moreover repeated the mistake it made with its disdainful treatment of David Cameron. Will it ever learn?
October 16, 2020
You’ve had 4 years to come up with a plan.
October 16, 2020
6 and a half – Cameron ‘negotiated’ for 2 years! He wanted to win a referendum and end the question forever (because we would have had the Euro forced on us).
October 16, 2020
From the Telegraph
EU leaders said the UK had to make “the necessary moves to make an agreement possible” and concede on fishing, the “level playing field” guarantees and the enforcement of the deal at a summit held on Mr Johnson’s October 15 deadline for a deal “to be in sight”.
World wide the ‘level playing field’ is administered and enforced by the WTO. The EU doesn’t control the WTO in fact they ignore the WTO when it regularly finds the EU working against ‘level playing field’ agreements. So their proposal it is the EU rule or no trade, but only as far as the UK is concerned.
The EU fishing in UK coastal waters (the bit between the beach and out for 12 miles) the UK must accept EU governance and administration or no trade deal.
These are the compromises required by the EU. EU Governance and administration internally of the UK or no trade deal. If Boris capitulates logic is we would no longer need a UK Government or the HoC – EU democracy in action
October 16, 2020
The WTO has no sanctioning powers, it can’t enforce anything. The WTO Appellate body remains non-quorate thanks to Trump blocking Judge appointments.
A dispute panel ruling has decided “Updated on 13 October 2020 at 18.11 CET. The European Union may retaliate against the United States following damage to Airbus’ sales of aircraft to prospective clients from government subsidies to Boeing. The amount of annual trade that may be covered by EU retaliation is US $ 3.99 billion.”
Trading on WTO rules is meaningless. No nation trades on WTO rules alone. An Australian type deal Boris favours is in fact, no deal and WTO rules.
If Trump gets re-elected, there won’t be a WTO in future. He wants every deal to be bilateral.
October 17, 2020
Not “on WTO rules”.
It will simply be an agreement to follow WTO schedules.
It works for over 90% of world trade and has led to a boom in international trade.
It leads to more free trade and less protectionism.
The opposite to the way the EU is heading.
October 17, 2020
Do you actually know what a WTO schedule is and the fact it simply states the maximum import tariff one member will apply to all other members.
October 17, 2020
Acorn, Every (to 98% of global trade) nation trades under WTO rules, including the EU. You just cited an WTO judgement in the EU’s favour, for goodness sake!
There are no international trade treaties that supplant the WTO rules. None. The only additions to WTO rules (and subservient to them) are a state’s own commercial policy, and the terms and conditions of the businesses involved in a transaction..
October 16, 2020
YES – A thousand time yes. WALK AWAY FGS
If Boris screws this up now after doing so well he will be the last Tory PM for quite some time — Our future hangs on a good BREXIT, ideally on WTO terms.
I’d hate Boris to go down in history as the last great compromiser that sold his country short
October 16, 2020
We should never have started that Internal Markets Bill as it showed Bad faith on our part- and then Boris promising to walk on the 15th without a nod from the other side was not the best move either- it is now the 16th and now we will have to see what happens today?
But where are the great DD and IDS and Mr Fox who promised so much- they said the deal would be the easiest deal ever and that the EU would settle at the 11th hour- well I don’t see it- and if what is happening is Dom Cummings failed strategy then Boris should give him his marching papers in double quick time.
October 16, 2020
Blinky, The clauses you refer to are only necessary because the EU has shown bad faith by making threats against the sovereignty of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. If the EU withdraws the threats then those clauses remain inoperative.
October 17, 2020
It was said the deal SHOULD be the easiest deal ever, IF the politics were right. That meant if the EU behaved themselves.
October 16, 2020
Too true! We have had enough! We need to plan, to look forward in hope.
October 16, 2020
Agree – now we need a big vision (and I don’t mean HS2)
October 16, 2020
Have the EU conceded anything at all? Delay has clearly been very advantageous for the crowing EU, so they’ll be salivating as yet another deadline is missed. All this for <8% of GDP, so you have to wonder why we're so desperate for a FTA that benefits the EU. I suspect the terms of the dire WA are behind Mr Johnson's reluctance to walk away, especially without the IMB firmly in place.
October 16, 2020
Quite. And how many are dying as a direct result of lockdown?
Lockdown kills.people.
October 16, 2020
Should have been in reply to Sir PV!
October 16, 2020
Briefings for Britain, Brexit Watch and I’m sure others believe we’re going to be screwed over by Boris..
I pray they’re all wrong but I’m not holding my breath!
I would love for us to properly leave and then really go to town reforming the heavily Remainer occupied institutions and try to re-build a better functioning society and industry. And I don’t mean with the use of idealogical greencrap, but intelligently and well thought innovations.
And all the minority activists who have been actively driving a wedge through society and dividing it up into little boxes and trickling Marxism into our culture could be stopped with some serious debates.
One can but dream!
October 16, 2020
Time to.walk away? What happened to yesterday?
October 16, 2020
The sovereign UK HAS almost all the cards, with regard to dates. It can break its own deadline. It can even ask for extension of the transition period.
It does not have all the cards with regard to outcomes of negotiations. The EU27 have to serve their own interests and protecting its internal market against dumping from abroad is the most natural thing to do.
The UK has so far proven quite helpful in keeping the EU27 unified, which normally is never a given.
October 16, 2020
‘THE SOVEREIGN UK’ – oh how I adore that phrase, and from the Continent!
October 16, 2020
You are admitting that the EU is a protectionist bloc and is against free trade.
Dumping is an interesting word and in EU speak it really means, refusing citizens the life improving chance to buy goods from whatever source they want to buy from.
Most illuminating Peter
October 16, 2020
You know I bought a lb of Kerrygold butter in Johannesburg for 5d. Just who ‘dumps’ and destroys the local industry? The vicious, self-centred, nasty EU.
October 16, 2020
PvL, Why do you suppose the UK is likely to engage in “dumping” any more than Canada does? And shouldn’t “dumping” be tackled at the WTO anyway?
October 16, 2020
PvL
“The EU27 have to serve their own interests”
The 27 that would not exist were it not for British sacrifice. Such ungratefulness.
October 16, 2020
What you as an EU supporter regards as ‘dumping’ is in fact normal trading. The EU is a protection racket, mostly for inefficient farmers and producers and they know they cannot stand up to a competitive UK. If this is not so, why do they want to control us? They could just let us go and be glad to be free of a thorn in their side.
October 16, 2020
@graham1946 You (UK) are free and always have been free to go, and I have been favoring the UK leaving for a long time. Nobody is keeping you here. You want to leave in some pick and chose way and the EU27 aren’t allowing that. That is all. Leave tomorrow and you’ve left. The EU has no power to keep you. What IS keeping you here?
October 16, 2020
Pick and choose way…no Peter just a similar arrangement to the many non EU nations who trade happily and successfully with the EU.
October 17, 2020
PvL
Only our politicians wanted to pick and choose. We wanted to Leave, be friends, trade, and visit. Nothing else. We are not bitter just fed up at all the foot dragging and silly goings on. Now finally we might just get what we voted on over 4 years ago !
Try not to be too upset 🙂
October 17, 2020
@Mark B:
Why didn’t you chose to elect better politicians? You claim to be a democracy after all.
I’m not upset, au contraire my friend. I have long held the view that Britian didn’t fit in the EU and used the 6 big opt-outs as illustration for that (Shcengen, EMU, Euro, Social charter, Charter fundamental rights, Judicial cooperation).
The EU has already moved on since Brexit.
Still a pity that the built up ballon of trust was punctured (try to puncture a bolloone in just a specific and limited way 🙂 ) taking us back to the era of the perfidious albion) No surprise then that the 27 heads of state were dissapointed and removed the term intensified negotiations from the draft council resolutions.
October 17, 2020
PvL, Free to go?? Haahaha – are you serious? Or have you been asleep for the past four and a half years? The EU has put every stumbling block in our way to prevent us leaving, even going so far as to conspire with fifth columnists in the UK, and corrupt its own legislation.
Neither the EU’s own Art50 nor Lisbon has been adhered as the EU exercises its hostility and vindictiveness towards the UK. Barnier’s staircase leading to a Canada-style deal mysteriously disappeared when it looked like we might accept it. The EU moreover has openly declared that we must pay for the temerity of attempting to leave, aiming to retain the UK as an EU empire colony.
October 16, 2020
Fudge or Budge is what the EU wants and knows Boris has a history of this.
Time to get a grip and step up like Churchill or Maggie. For all her faults she was incorruptible and determined to win for the country. Paradoxically she was not in it to be loved but had a job to turn the country around. And does this country need leadership today!
October 16, 2020
Walk away, the UK has shown too much forbearance and started on the slippery slope of giving small concessions that will impact the UK mightily
RIP up the WA,, rangling over its terms will frustrate and weaken the UK, no self respecting UK govt can allow a foreign entity to control us in the manner that the WA does
Offer the EU a Canada Plus FTA on a take it or leave it basis, no need for further discussions or amendments – ensure Services are included
The UK must never allow itself to be subservient in the manner that the EU requires.
Encourage UK citizens to buy UK goods only, Anchor butter and Country Life butter would be a good start, and to eat more fish. Do we really need to import Rep of Ireland beef, Nbritish beef is just as good if not better
October 16, 2020
Walk away AND give the speech about the Withdrawal Agreement and Trade Agreement being two sides of the same coin.
The HE’s choice should be between an imperfect trade agreement or losing any gains they made in the Withdrawal Agreement.
Personally I favour the “double no deal”, as it appears to be the only way that the EU will realise that the UK has departed and is now independent.
October 16, 2020
There is speculation that Merkel has been convinced by a Downing Street mole that BJ is going to walk and will be replaced by Jeremy Hunt, who will immediately reverse Brexit using COVID as an excuse. It has been in the EU’s interest to delay things as long as possible from the very beginning, in the hope that the 2016 referendum could be reversed. If we show weakness now after more than four years, we are finished. More importantly for you, Sir John, BJ will in that case be the last ever Conservative PM
October 16, 2020
Having stolen the votes of millions this is the outcome one feared/expected but hoped against hope would not happen.
Well..it has and what madness will Boris now drag us into?
October 16, 2020
Maybe I should take that back?
He seems to have walked??
October 16, 2020
YES! Thank God!
October 16, 2020
I have no faith in this PM. Any deal he makes will be as lousy as the Withdrawal Agreement, which most of us knew left N.I. in the EU and the UK ultimately subject to ECJ.
Minor consolation I did not vote for him, in a rerun many more would not but it is unlikely they will have the option next time.
October 16, 2020
A number of sources today confirmed that the EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier will seek to use the leverage of the EU’s energy market as a potential way of unblocking the UK’s resistence to granting European fishing fleets ongoing access to British waters.
I wondered how long that would take to happen. Shows why UK should not rely on wind energy if EU is seeking to gain leverage over UK from their energy supply!
October 16, 2020
Seems like BoJo is turning into another Brexit liar just like May.
October 16, 2020
An agreement would be much the best thing, and we should redouble our efforts to achieve that right until the last possible moment. But we are not afraid to come away without a deal if need be.
October 16, 2020
Redoubling efforts is a waste of time if both parties have strictly incompatible red lines. All one can do is seek narrower agreements in specific areas, but that goes against nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
October 16, 2020
Thank God! Boris has got only 1 thing right at last, but I would trade all the others for this one – WTO!
October 16, 2020
Not so fast Mister….
He did not walk away.
Let’s see the situation again within a week or two shall we?
October 16, 2020
It’s over. We are out! They have to come crawling for a FTA – they will not. Rejoice!
October 16, 2020
God I hope and pray you’re right
October 16, 2020
They snookered each other!
October 16, 2020
He can’t row back after this.
October 16, 2020
Replying again..well now they are over.
But lets see still couple of weeks are they really over
October 16, 2020
Perhaps it’s time to do that – but also to give the EU a number of draft ‘mini-deals’ on a raft of subjects, so that the non-contentious areas of sensible co-operation can be maintained.
I think most of us foresaw that the EU would be unhelpful throughout this entire process. Leaving aside the issue of the Commons, for a moment, the right negotiating strategy with a beast of the EU’s nature would have been to deliver the A50 notification and then just leave. I now hope that the Conservative government will do everything it can to cast off one EU shackle after another – and, to use Managing Successful Programmes (MSP) language, ‘realise the benefits’ of Brexit. And then I’ll be hoping that other countries will follow our lead. Italy next?
October 16, 2020
Italy does not have a currency. Makes leaving nearly impossible as Bernard Connolly wrote decades ago. That’s why we fought so hard for Sterling. We won a lot of battles, any one of which, if lost, would have cost us the War.
October 16, 2020
Yes, Italy would be good!
Then we can do a trade deal with the Italians in time for me to purchase my next (petrol) Alfa! If they left the Eurozone their cars would compete very well with the Germans. 🙂
October 16, 2020
Talk and more talk of concessions, concessions and more concessions. What concessions were there on the way in.
Dare I mention the EU dear food policy to pay for the wine lakes and cheese mountains etc etc.
Our fishing not to mention gold and the CAP etc virtually given away and for what?
Mr Dimbleby at the referendum result, how many years ago and billions of our taxpayers hard earned money to the EU, declared “WE’RE OUT”. Out we are not and at this rate we never will be.
Promises and manifesto pledges to bring down immigration & take back control etc are
turning to dust.
I doubt I will ever live to see what the people voted for. Some democracy!
October 16, 2020
Well at least yet he hasn’t done it…just said that EU “must come to us”
October 16, 2020
That’s it!
October 16, 2020
Boris says he wanted a Canada style deal but the Canada style deal involves tariffs which could takes both sides years to work out- in fact it took the Canadians seven years to negotiate. I undrstood that in the transition talks we were looking for a closer deal than that with no tariffs?
October 16, 2020
Wow. Just seen Boris’s statement on the EU negs, pretty strong stuff, and for now I take back my criticisms.
Looks like he has listened to you Sir JR and a lot of us
October 16, 2020
He is not known to me as the people’s Blue Boris for nothing!
October 16, 2020
I think JR took him aside in the lobby!
Possibly by the ear?😷
October 16, 2020
👏👏👏👏
October 16, 2020
Don’t celebrate too soon, words are cheap. We still have two and a half months to go. If we get to January without concessions to the EU demands, and just leave, I will join you and retract my earlier comment that he will cave in. Let’s see shall we? He talks tough to us, but melts in the face of Von der Leyen, to the extent that already his ‘deadline’ has passed without him withdrawing and it looks like he is going to talk to the EU some more next week, when he should have said enough is enough, come back when you are ready to offer the proper trade deal.
October 16, 2020
Gosh! Well!
Oooooh!
That was unexpected Boris!!
October 16, 2020
Now who will get us out of our new totalitarian web?
October 16, 2020
One jailbreak at a time!
October 16, 2020
Congratulations to Boris ; real leadership on the EU for the first time in three decades. John major started the rot which may have ended today.
The EU is about to lose all the benefits of a one-sided relationship that it accumulated over 30 years in dealings with incompetent British negotiators. Better that any future negotiations start from a clean slate.
October 16, 2020
The Prime Minister said: “From the outset we were totally clear that we wanted nothing more complicated than a Canada-style relationship based on friendship and free trade. To judge by the latest EU summit in Brussels that won’t work for our EU partners. They want the continued ability to control our legislative freedom, our fisheries, in a way that is completely unacceptable to an independent country.”
The Government keeps forgetting the EU does not want the UK to be free from their control. To many highly vocal self appointed naysayers keep giving the EU hope the UK wanting to leave, take back control, standing as an equal free trading nation as part of the World Community was an ideal the EU could defeat. The EU also knows the more games they play the more it will disrupt and cost the UK taxpayer.
October 16, 2020
The basic problem is that the EU cannot get it into its head that post 1st Jan 2021 we will be a sovereign nation. Nor do I think it understands what a sovereign nation is. It is a nation that stands alone in terms of law, created by it’s Parliament alone with the power invested in it by the electorate. It may choose to acknowledge many international norms and abide by them, but that choice is in its own hands.
Therefore, how we support our industry, how we conduct our fishing in our territorial waters is at our discretion and ours alone. The support will be within WTO rules. Any fishing by EU boats will be under licence and by invitation.
As a member of the EU at present we have a tariffe free trade agreement with them and they with us. It would be a singularly petulent and stupid act of self harm on the part of the EU to fail to continue this arrangement .
I feel genuinely sorry for Spanish orange producers should they be denied the UK market due to the penal mindset of the EU. More than enough oranges are left to rot on the ground already without further difficulties created by the EU. Once the UK customer is lost to oranges from the USA, South Africa, Israel and elsewhere he will be very difficult to recapture. Spanish growers do not deserve it, nor does their country’s already very fragile economy.
October 16, 2020
For those who missed it:
Prime Minister’s official spokesperson – “the trade talks are over. The EU have officially ended them. Only if the EU fundamentally changes position will it be worthwhile talking.”
October 16, 2020
Talks between the UK and EU over a post-Brexit trade agreement are “over”, Downing Street has said.
No 10 said there was “no point” in discussions continuing next week unless the EU was prepared to discuss the detailed legal text of a partnership.
October 16, 2020
I’ve said here before that if BJ can deliver a clean Brexit without caving in to EU arrogance and threats, he’ll make up any ground he has lost over COVID.
Stick to it, BJ, and you’ll see your popularity rise. And as soon as you’ve dealt with this, you must sack the entire SAGE committee, commit to dealing with pollution but abandon any silliness about CO2 and then you’ll be getting somewhere.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, it’s now absolutely essential that you make clear that the WA is dead. It is a late WA, it is pushing up the daisies and has joined the choir celestial.
October 16, 2020
The EU/U.K. trade talks are over … and the £ has gone up! 😍
October 16, 2020
Almost every senior cabinet minister has now openly said that the EU are acting irresponsible, that they’re in contempt, they’re not negotiating in good faith etc etc….so why on earth are we continuing to bargain with them ?
October 16, 2020
But we are not.
October 16, 2020
Yes
But even if there was about to be a sell out, we would expect some grandstanding before the climb down.
With May we would have been lost. Boris offers hope, but it is only Cummings at the table that makes me think we might really walk away.
Now, can we stop the Covid hysteria and unleash an independent UK ?