Will you change cars – and boilers?

The EU, the US under Mr Biden and the UK all want people to dump their petrol and diesel cars and buy electric or go by train. They also want us to scrap our gas boilers for home heating and install heat pumps or all electric systems.

They also want us to do this in the next ten years. The enthusiasm for tougher targets to reduce “carbon footprints” means governments have to move on from forcing companies to change their energy use patterns to hit modest targets, to requiring everyone to change our habits to get closer to net zero.

In the UK there are an estimated 25 million gas heating systems in homes. It is going to be a vast task, and a very expensive operation to take all these out and replace them with something else this decade. Many people will object they do not have the money to make the change, or do not wish to have the disruption of replacement when their existing product is just fine. Some may decide to renew their gas boiler with another just before they are banned as they like that product and are wary of the new.

To make the switch happen government and business together have to come up with a great offer which makes people think the replacement is better than the old, and that the net cost of the change is worthwhile or subsidised. It would be better to leave the gas boiler as a legal product until there is a very popular range of other options which most people want to buy.

Governments are also keen to ban the diesel and petrol cars that have served us well over the last century. True greens do not want us to have individual transport other than a bicycle, but governments accept that many people need cars to get to work, to take children to school, to go to the shops and lead normal social lives. They urge us to buy the battery electric alternative.

So far this year in the UK diesel and petrol car sales are down 780,000 whilst battery cars are up by just 47,000. Some of that is of course CV 19 related, but some is the very trend government wants. It is deeply damaging to employment in our car factories and showrooms. Again it is good advice to say first help the industry find and promote popular non fossil fuel products. Only then think about banning the products people have liked up til now.

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314 Comments

  1. Pominoz
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    The whole concept is madness of the highest order. Global groupthink, where many (Western) leaders, Trump excepted, do not want to be the first to challenge the hidden agenda of the rich and powerful. Falsehoods presented as undeniable science fact are readily identified by the masses. Somehow sanity must be restored.

    Xi Jinping must be laughing his socks off and will be ready to take control when the Western democracies have imploded through their own stupidity.

    • Jack Falstaff
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:19 am | Permalink

      Agree. Global groupthink is proving toxic too: I note an article in a broadsheet today about the prevalence of children suffering psychological harm from ‘climate anxiety’ now.
      They must be experiencing worries similar to my own concern over a nuclear war as a child, though magnified to a dangerous level, probably thanks to that odious propaganda machine the MSM.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      Indeed.
      We have to be certain that democracy works to remove these jokers from power before they do more damage.
      Enough lockdowns, enough greencrap, enough corporate cronyism, enough immigration, enough EU “Aufsicht”, enough funny money printing.
      Tory Labour Libedems-
      JUST GO NOW!

      • steve
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

        SJS

        “We have to be certain that democracy works to remove these jokers”

        ============

        Firstly; they are not jokers, they’re highly dangerous criminals.

        Secondly forget democracy, it’s dead and gone. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have a PM doing as the hell he likes and without mandate from the people.

        EU trade deal – no mandate, we didn’t vote for any deals with the EU.

        Green revolution – again, no mandate. We didn’t vote for such a thing.

    • oldtimer
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      Well said. Western nations are embarked on a truly astonishing course of willfull self destruction. Johnson’s latest pronouncements, if implemented, will complete the destruction of the UK economy. It is utter madness. If the Conservative party’s instinct for self preservation has any life left in it (and that is a matter of some doubt) they will remove Johnson from office without delay. I look forward to the chance to vote for the Reform party.

    • Stred
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      Prince Charles has proved his unsuitability as a monarch by joining with the lunatics in the WEF who think that they are going to enforce the Great Reset on the rest of us and use the Covid legislation as a means to do so. Politicians like Johnson are using the same language and falling into line. Their plans have not even been costed or any competent feasibility studies carried out.
      It is Charles and Boris that will be taken out and not our cars and boilers.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      Exactly, group think insanity. Former energy secretary Claire Perry (Geography) said after being fired that Johnson never really “got” climate change. Nor do most sensible sensible physicists, scientists and geologist – it is at best clearly a huge exaggeration. Co2 is just on of many factors affecting the weather. Cummings it seems was sound on climate alarmism like Boris. Alas it seems Queen Carrie has brainwashed Boris and Cummings has gone.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:37 am | Permalink

        Climate Alarmism is surely a gigantic con trick. Talking of con tricks brings me to the government’s absurd OTT response to Covid.

        Ivor Cummings@thefatemperor on Twitter has a nice graph of monthly deaths in Sweden since 1851. It puts the relatively trivial Covid 19 into historical context. Loads and loads of far, far worse pandemics.

    • agricola
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      Yes the Kings new set of clothes

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      Pominoz +1

    • turboterrier
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

      Pominoz.

      Agreed. No wonder the conspiracy theorists are having a field day. The PM and his cabinet all inspired and motivated by Princess Nut Nut seem to be missing the point that a lot of this so called vision was never part of their manifesto.

      We all know to our cost it is the taxpayer who takes the real hit on “subsidies”. How many billions paid out for turbines here and in Oz? Still they get even more on each new project… Do they listen , understand what they are dealing with? Not a snowball in hell’s chance.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:19 am | Permalink

      +++

    • Robert McDonald
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:53 am | Permalink

      I didn’t realise greta thunderberg was rich and powerful !

      • Pominoz
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

        RM,

        But those really pulling her strings are!

    • Bootsy
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:55 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

      Heating insulated homes with gas produces only a few percent of the CO2 that its predecessor, burning solid fuel in open fires did.

      If the practical political positions – of any likely government – really were as John’s silly caricature, then the reactions of commenters here might be warranted.

      But they are not, and people will not be subjected to the expense and inconvenience that his alarmism suggests.

      • steve
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

        MiC

        “…..people will not be subjected to the expense and inconvenience that his alarmism suggests.”

        ==========

        You obviously don’t get out much then, Martin.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

          Thanks to Mark Drakeford’s timely, limited Firebreak, we get out rather more than do those in England right now.

          As I said when Edward was mocking him, “just wait”.

          Just nipping out for a jar.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

            Be careful out there Martin, the infection rate per 100,000 people in Wales is 171.
            Up from last week’s 166.
            Your Firebreak hasn’t made much of a difference it seems.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

        Except BLM who can run riot in a pandemic as far as you are concerned.

        You’re loving this situation, Martin.

        I am the #1 enemy because I’m outdoorsy and like jogging ffs !

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

        Fine.

        I accept that no-one is banning my top of the range boiler in 2030. But nor do I expect to be taxed to death for having it.

        • No Longer Anonymous
          Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

          And why aren’t we talking about mass immigration if our national carbon footprint is to be reduced to zero ?

    • Peter
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

      The mayor of London is adding pressure by extending the congestion charge to the North and South Circular roads and introducing bicycle lanes in roads that are already narrow.

      Meanwhile, Boris Johnson just gets worse. Wrong on coronavirus, wrong on green issues and probably likely to sell the voters out on Brexit. It looks like the Great Reset is in progress in the U.K.

      Boris will be aware that a bad Brexit deal will be the end of him, so he may well be working on his own exit strategy. Maybe a well paid sinecure in sunny California, like Clegg, with freedom to continue publishing articles and a speaking tour that earns big bucks like Theresa May?

      • steve
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

        Peter

        “Boris will be aware that a bad Brexit deal will be the end of him, so he may well be working on his own exit strategy”

        ===========

        To be frank, if he carries on like this with brexit and his stupid green revolution he’ll find himself going the way of Ceaușescu.

        ……we aint ‘avin it, Boris !

        .

    • Timaction
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

      If you read nothing else today read Cathy Gingals article in Conservative Woman on the great reset and Trump on vote rigging in the US. The article includes real media reporters, not like our msm fake news, woke supporting climate changers and all things pc!

      https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/where-are-our-sky-sceptics/

      An excellent article that explains the timing of Boris’s mad green agenda!!

  2. steve
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    Will I change car and boiler ? NO.

    Will I change governing political party ? YES.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:07 am | Permalink

      +++++++++1

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

      No party is proposing to compel you to change your boiler. Nor will they.

      There are already requirements for new properties to be well insulated, so that they need little heating, and electricity becomes appropriate for such developments on the other hand.

      • graham1946
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

        So what happens when a boiler needs to be replaced and none are manufactured? It is not all about space heating, water heating is a big drain, all that washing and power showering. New houses don’t need so much heating because they are rabbit hutches but the inhabitants need to keep clean.

      • steve
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

        MiC

        “No party is proposing to compel you to change your boiler. Nor will they.”

        ===========

        So, when you need a new one in ten years what problem do you foresee arising ?

      • Fred H
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        or candle heat when the lecky goes off.

    • Wil Pretty
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      I evaluated Heat Pumps for heating in my working life, their disadvantage is that they are least efficient when the external temperature is low.
      This morning the air temperature is -0.3C and my gas central heating is at full chat.
      I reckon they are uneconomic for me unless the electricity price is decreased by a factor of 4.
      The government solution to this will no doubt be to tax gas so its price increases by a factor of 4.

      • steve
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

        Will Pretty

        Interesting you mention about outside air temps. This morning on the news they were saying that heat pump installations require a bore hole to below ground level where there is heat. This suggests a geothermal method of obtaining heat.

        Other sources I’ve read in that past have said the system takes heat from the outside air, which seems like fake info to me.

        However the problem as I see it is that the UK is not known for it’s geothermal resources i.e hasn’t really got any.

        In any case, my gas powered combi works just fine when I use it.

        I don’t buy this carbon neutral crap, we’re a small island. Take the argument to China, not us.

        To the UK, Boris Johnson is a meddler and a vandal who needs removing before he manages to knacker up what’s left of the country.

        • DaveK
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 11:31 am | Permalink

          Ground source heat pump systems work on the same process as refrigeration. The element buried outside at deeper than 1.5 metres is filled with water and anti-freeze which is pumped around to transfer the heat (which remains constant below a certain depth) using refrigerant type heat exchanger to a secondary system (underfloor heating for example). Another advantage is that the system can be reversed and used as air conditioning in summer. However these systems do need a lot of electricity to run the pumps. Friends in Europe (France and Italy) had to upgrade their electrical supplies to run them.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

      Correct. Together with the CCA, this is the most ruinous idea of any government to date.
      Reminiscent of the ground nut scheme.
      You have just signed your death warrant.

    • oldtimer
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      My sentiments and intentions too.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:53 am | Permalink

      Except what can you change it to given FPTP voting?

      Just Labour/SNP/Plaid and one Green dope in Brighton I suspect? All but a handful of MPs voted for the Climate Change Act so deluded and unscientific are the damn fools.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

      Our Bosch Worcester CH boiler is brilliant. If we survive towards 10 years we might want to replace with another. We might buy a new car in the new year – otherwise only used cars – non EU.

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

      Only problem is Steve the other parties are as bad if not worse. The only one with enough sanity to put a stop to all this green crap nonsense is Farage. We need to take a leap of faith next election and vote for him especially as Johnson will have made his party unelectable by then.

    • BOF
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:46 am | Permalink

      +1 To the point.

    • glen cullen
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      Fully agree with your answers – hope someone at Tory HQ is listening

    • Bootsy
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

      We must find a stable party of the British Way of life supporting politicians. Too many only interested in their own gains.

      Selfishness has certainly been demonstrated by the majority of liblabcon in power lately.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

        No professional politicians, they should all be unpaid!

    • Richard II
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

      + 1

    • Ignoramus
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

      As will millions.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

      Will I change governing political party ? YES.

      What to? Do you know of any political party (ever likely to form a government under our unfair and undemocratic first past the post system) that does not have these policies?

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

        Yes. The Labour Party was established exactly under these ‘undemocratic’ conditions and has won multiple elections.
        You need to ditch Farage, the public have his measure, fine in a one issue lobby group – Government? no!

    • Graham Wheatley
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

      +1000

    • Enough Already
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • M Davis
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

      #Me too!

  3. Ian Wilson
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    Imagine the outcry from MPs if a coal power station was found taking its fuel from mines where seven-year-old children were working in appallingly toxic and dangerous conditions. Doubtless there would be calls to close the mines. Yet there is not a whimper about the equivalent in cobalt mines supplying this mineral for the electric cars we will be forced to buy. Nor is there protest about the environmental harm done by blasting 200 tons of rock for every battery. I for one will not buy an electric car until these issues are resolved. I find it appalling ministers turn a blind eye to these practices in their obsession with CO2.

    And what’s the raison d’etre for electric cars, gas boiler bans and the rest? If it’s to reduce CO2 it ignores the 800 scientists of the Climate Intelligence Foundation who stated there is no climate emergency and that rising CO2 is a benefit by raising world food output. Then there were the 31,487 scientists who in 1997 signed the Petition Project stating there is no evidence human originated gases cause warming. What scientists of similar calibre do the government consult – Greta Thumberg?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      Look, there is no sense to it because it is just about making money ( for some).
      And also about dispossessing most of us…wealth transference.
      The creation of a new remunerative bubble …a big, fat, green one!
      Remember what money was made by having windmills on one’s land?
      To make money from green you have to annihilate the competition, which they are doing. The EU has been practising nobbling via decree for years.
      A curse on all their houses for their greed, duplicity and cruel spite.

    • turboterrier
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink

      Ian Wilson.

      Well highlighted. Totally agree.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      Ian, I agree. Child labour is unacceptable and the conditions they are forced to work in appalling. I watched a programme on the tv yesterday about glaciers and the ice ages. Billions of years ago we had ice ages which melted like they are today. Continents and land mass collided to form the earth as we see it today. We are apparently in the warm stage of a current ice age. If all this was going on years ago without the population as it is today and no combustion engines then why do a few idiots think they can stop it by making us all live like cave men again (while they live in luxury with the money to afford all this crap) by making us make these stupid changes? If it costs £15k to install an air sourced heat pump where do they honestly think people are going to be able to find the money? As usual, I expect those on benefits will get it for nothing but what about those who are working but only just managing to pay their bills now? Are they going to be able to afford to get new transport and a new boiler? No way. My husband is 10 years older than myself with health issues. If, as the degree of averages dictates, he dies before me there is no way I’ll be able to afford all these changes and I know plenty of others in the same boat. Boris has lost his marbles.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      Exactly right.

    • RichardP
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      Don’t worry about the child miners, they plan to get cobalt and other rare earth metals from industrial scale seabed mining.
      What could go wrong!

    • wab
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:58 am | Permalink

      “Then there were the 31,487 scientists who in 1997 signed the Petition Project stating there is no evidence human originated gases cause warming.”

      Read the wiki article if you want to see how unconvincing this statement is. Also, it was 1997.

      And the “Climate Intelligence Foundation”: not many of these people have ever done any climate research.

      And the snide remark about Greta Thunberg is puerile.

      Is this the best you can do?

      Next time, get around to mentioning all the real climate scientists who state the opposite of what you are claiming.

      And so nice that you are concerned about the plight of children. Are you concerned about how much coal pollution affects children (and everyone else)? And I thought the usual ring wing mantra was that there should be no regulations.

      Being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian is not a badge of honour.

      • DaveK
        Posted November 21, 2020 at 11:50 am | Permalink

        Wiki is totally compromised by it’s activist gatekeepers and the above list of scientists was useful until it was infiltrated by those you support adding swathes of stupid signatories. It is still better than the 77 out of 79 scientists you rely on for the ludicrous 97% claim.

        Love the usual “Think of the Cheeeldren” straw man. Few people want to use coal in the way it was in the past, except for countries which you no doubt praise.

    • RichardM
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

      Ian Wilson The 800 mostly non-scientists of Clintel comprise less than the 3% who do not agree with the 97% scientific consensus that the earth is warming at an increasing rate as a direct consequence of human activity.
      The ‘petition’ you talk of was circulating sing 1998 was created by people with political motivations. You dont have to have been a Climate scientist, or indeed any form of scientist to have signed it.
      Of course you know all this, yet still persist in spouting such nonsense.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

        Remove those who are paid and bought for, then lists do a recount.

      • DaveK
        Posted November 21, 2020 at 11:54 am | Permalink

        Where did this 97% figure originate? It appears to have started with a short 2009 paper by Peter Doran and Maggie Zimmerman of the University of Illinois at Chicago. In this paper, they announced the results of the two question poll. This poll was sent to 10,257 “Earth scientists.”

        The two questions were:

        1. When compared with pre- 1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?

        2. Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?

        The poll received 3,146 responses. Of these only 79 of the respondents listed climate science as their area of expertise and had published more than 50% of their recent peer-reviewed papers on the subject of climate change. Of those 79, 97% responded “yes” to both questions. 97% of 79 is 77.

        When they tell you that 97% of scientists agree, you need to know that they mean 77 scientists out of 10,257 polled.

    • DavidJ
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

      Excellent comment Ian.

    • Mockbeggar
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

      With regard to batteries, see my comment of yesterday; to wit, have a look at either Surrey or Bristol Universities’ websites under supercapacitors. There may be a way out being developed.

      • Mark
        Posted November 21, 2020 at 4:57 am | Permalink

        Super-capacitors have their uses, but they don’t solve every problem. They can produce extremely high bursts of power for a short duration: through a resistive load, that declines exponentially at a rate determined by the time constant RC (resistance x capacitance). They are used to deliver the extremely high bursts of power for experimental fusion reactors such as JET.

    • Timaction
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

      We are between ice ages. That’s when temperatures rise and climates change. That will change again at some point in the future. The Earth has been more often in ice ages than out when measured in recent millions of years. Same as tectonic plate movements, intensity of the sun, volcanic and ocean activity, the jet stream, intensity of the sun under the same time frames. CO2 accounts for 0.04% of the earths atmosphere, I repeat 0.04%. Less than half of 0.1%. Think about that for a moment. There is just mad “group think” and our politicos around the world do not allow dissenters. Many learned scientists have debunked climate warmism very often but get no airtime, but are stopped from getting grants and they are oppressed. Our msm are awful and investigative journalism is dead.
      Action should be taken to protect international flora and fauna, particularly the rain forest that are being destroyed to raise cattle and palm oil etc.

    • Dennis
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

      A couple of days ago I heard Iain Dale on LBC having electric car owners call up to discuss their experiences. All were enthusiastic and praised how their cars fulfilled their needs with no caveats except power points needing expansion.

      Not once did Dale mention any of your 1st paragraph concerns to hear what the owners might think about them – quite frankly I was shocked at Dale’s omission.

  4. Stephen Priest
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    A good plan to make even the reasonably well off poor and cold.

    If “green” technology worked why would they need so many subsidies?

    Of course electric cars aren’t “green” – the batteries will need to be disposed of somehow with raw raw materials coming from dubious parts of the world .

    China will sign up to international Green Agreements all day long and the totally ignore these agreements.

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      Dear Stephen–Car batteries are heavy so think of the electricity needed just to lug them around. There is no Magic Electricity Tree. Will there be sufficient mechanics trained in repairing electric cars? On this crazy timescale how many mechanics are going to be out of work, deciding it’s all too much and the smaller garages going out of business with them. This should be an easy task for the government because Petrol cars are smelly and dangerous. I have had a car spontaneously burst in to flames in my time and personally hate the things but as usual the government is making a pig’s ear out of it. Boris has a conflict of interest when he puts his feet up at night which is a disgrace in itself. Why should we be told what his current girlfriend thinks?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:11 am | Permalink

      And remember, to force us into giving them our money they plan to deny us the most basic stone age technology. A fire!

    • dixie
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

      “the batteries will need to be disposed of somehow” – no they won’t.

      “with raw materials coming from dubious parts of the world” – not if DeepGreen and other producers are successful.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

      If “green” technology worked why would they need so many subsidies?

      Well, that doesn’t seem too tricky to answer. If digging coal out of the ground and heating our homes by coal is cheaper than ‘green’ (I prefer the words ‘renewable’ or ‘sustainable’) energy sources – obviously you need to subsidise the ‘green’ energy – or make burning coal illegal.

      I am old enough to remember the 1950s when I was a child in London. Walking to school with a handkerchief tied around our faces and that white handkerchief being yellow and black by the time we got to school. Every building covered in black grime. Smogs that left you choking for breath. Widespread bronchitis. Personally, I prefer ‘green’ energy.

      • Paul Cuthbertson
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

        I was also remember the 50’s but you can keep your green crap. Nothing wrong with coal, there is plenty of technology to burn clean coal . Energy from Waste also but as soon as anyone mentions the word incinerator the Climate idiots have heart attacks. We should leave the Paris Climate accord also. Just ask yourself, where the money go, billions. Follow the money. You are all being fooled.

    • DavidJ
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

      +1

  5. Everhopeful
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    No.
    Let’s just change the government. It was elected on lies.
    I have only ever done, bought, lived as prescribed by successive governments.
    I have paid taxes, followed rules and conformed.
    Now, for my life, I am treated as a wanton criminal.
    We have all been betrayed.

    • glen cullen
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:02 am | Permalink

      Correct – this government is so disconnected from the people….they no longer see the people

      They’re our new Lords & Masters in this new green communist state

      We’re not even plebs we’re peasants in the new world order

    • M Davis
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

      My sentiments, exactly!

  6. Stephen Priest
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    Prof Carl Heneghan & Tom Jefferson – the Spectator

    Landmark Danish study shows face masks have no significant effect

    There was no statistically significant difference between those who wore masks and those who did not when it came to being infected by Covid-19.

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:23 am | Permalink

      Masks don’t protect the wearer, they protect those being spoken to. I’ll continue to wear mine.

      • Sakara Gold
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:22 am | Permalink

        So will I

      • davews
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:22 am | Permalink

        Surely masks are symmetrical – what goes through the mask one way can get in the other. Mandatory masks are one of the biggest cons of this whole palaver, they achieve absolutely nothing.

        • APL
          Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

          davews: “they achieve absolutely nothing.”

          Agreed.

          Masks achieve nothing more than a handkerchief would.

          • DaveK
            Posted November 21, 2020 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

            We have gone from a nation that gave school children Tufty handherchiefs and covered their faces if they coughed or sneezed to one where people sneeze and cough in others faces. Don’t even mention hygiene and toilet behaviours.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        considering the widespread compliance for mask wearing I would have expected the second wave to have been delayed or much reduced.

        It is a placebo at best.

      • Philip P.
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

        Yes, that is what’s claimed, Sea Warrior, but with no evidence from a RCT. There is no observational evidence for mask-wearing either. Look at the recent rise in Covid ‘cases’, and you’ll see they shot up fast at the same point in the autumn, regardless of when mask-wearing mandates were introduced : early in France and Spain, late in Ireland and Italy. The virus does what it’s going to do anyway.
        The BBC’s Health Correspondent Deborah Cohen tried to find out why the WHO reversed its previous stance, which did not recommend mask-wearing to control the spread of a virus. She was told the decision was ‘political’.

        You might as well carry a lucky rabbit’s foot.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

          it wasn’t very lucky for the rabbit when the fields were concreted over.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

        They don’t protect anyone in an enclosed space such as an office, train or taxi.

        They haven’t prevented a second lockdown despite our compliance in wearing the bloody things.

        Rewind to the beginning of this crisis – when we though people were going to be dropping dead everywhere at all ages.

        We now know that this kills people over a certain age with certain comorbidities but selective shielding was ruled out.

        So younger people are going to have to live with a fraction of the life that the older generation enjoyed. I cannot believe the household named businesses that are going to the wall and the ancient pubs and churches facing closure.

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:03 am | Permalink

        Sea Warrior. But that makes you the wearer.

      • Mary M.
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

        (You may be interested to watch “Doctor uses Vape Aerosols to show just how much masks don’t work.” Only a couple or so minutes.)

        Sir John, in answer to your question, I personally would prefer that governments allow people to make changes gradually rather than force change with the threat of future deadlines.

      • glen cullen
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:15 am | Permalink

        If you know you have the flu or covid you shouldn’t be wearing a mask you should be at home isolating

        If you show zero symptoms and have negative test results why wear a mask

        For self protection and protection of others you might as well wear a scull cap, elbow and knee pabs

      • Bootsy
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

        If I do NOT have one on then do not ask to be spoken too, simple. I still will not buy one

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

          +1

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

        Also those wearing masks are more likely to work in far higher risk areas than those who do not anyway.

        The study is meaningless without like-for-like specifics.

        • Mike Durrans
          Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

          some of us have our money made and do not work, great isn’t it Martin

          • No Longer Anonymous
            Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

            Yup.

            I’m out there. The at risk age group. Working. Keeping Martin safe ‘n’ warm in lockdown.

            Gawd. I wouldn’t want him beside me in a tussle at a Women’s Institute cake fundraiser let alone a world war.

      • APL
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

        Masks do not protect others.

        This trial ( link below ), conducted in a hospital operating theatre resulted in a 50% decrease in post operative infections after masks were abandoned for a trial period

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/?fbclid=IwAR2EY-WpAegJH789HE2L6M9JUJwTkWdjIUrZhJFPgdk4gBQmLi6qM22_HkI

      • Barbara
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

        SW

        If they don’t protect you, they don’t protect the other person either. Mask fabric has holes many times bigger in its weave than the size of a virus particle. It’s like trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence.

      • cornishstu
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

        They may reduce contaminated water droplets from sneezing, coughing spluttering etc but will not stop aerosols from normal breathing. Go out on a cold morning with a face mask on you will still see the vapour you breathe out and if you can see that then the virus has passed with it assuming you are infected. There are many studies preceding this one saying that face masks are ineffective against viral transmission however because the matter has been politicised, we had the no studies with Covid 19 meme.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      How would there be?
      Viruses are defined by their ability to pass through porcelain!! Filterable they call it!
      Masks protect no one. In fact since people have been told that they do offer protection more risks are likely to be taken than otherwise.
      “ Oh don’t come near me. I’ve got a cold!” Remember?

      “Sigh. Oh yes Mrs Brown. It’s only a virus. Just drink plenty, stay indoors for a few days and keep warm. No. No antibiotics. Good day!”Remember?

      The purpose of mask wearing….as proposed by a communist psychologist ( did you read that bit??) is to keep the sheeple constantly aware of the “fact” that they are in the middle of a “VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION”. Bleat…jab plzzzz.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:20 am | Permalink

      The other interesting item to come out is the latest Cambridge nowcast/forecast. There is a tab for estimated IFR (infection fatality ratio) as a function of age, though not as a function of underlying health condition. Worth a read.

      The aggregate IFR is still about 5 times that of the overall for flu, but I cannot find age specific data for the flu. Obviously covid is very age dependent. Whilst the vaccine and lockdown pushes continue, one has to wonder whether the new treatment protocols that are rolling out (especially in US) will soon make these IFRs (even more) ‘acceptable’

    • Fred H
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

      so we are back to the question: how is it being transfered?
      Flesh contact? Hard surfaces? Blown in wind? On letters in the post?
      The Chinese are suggesting it is carried on frozen food.
      It really is about time this was resolved.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

        the question still stands.

  7. Mark B
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    The first political party to highlight all this before the next GE may well win. No political party has ever won a GE promising higher taxes and more burdensome costs on the electorate.

    It seems that this government, knowing it will not win the next GE, seems quite content to leave the opposition a real poison pill to swallow. Either they continue with these ruinous policies or, abolish them and face the accusation of not caring for the environment.

    I hate being piggy in the middle. Do you?

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink

      All parties subscribe to this madness – follow the money, follow the power ceded.

      We need a “people’s vote” on going green. Less pollution – yes, carbon neutral – no

    • Wil Pretty
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

      This CO2 crisis appears to be a scheme dreamt up by the UN to bring the 1st world economies down to the level of the 3rd.
      Once we have eliminated our CO2 emissions we will be tasked with removing all salt pollution from the seas of the world.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      Yes, it would seem that after a failed economy, failed immigration, failed Brexit they want to cut and run.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      No they win by promising lower taxes and better public services or claiming to be Cast Iron and “a low tax Conservatives at heart”. Then post the election they deliver the complete reverse.

      The war on CO2 is an even larger insanity that the OTT covid actions that will clearly kill more than they save and destroy the economy and lives too.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

      I don’t think that the globalist agenda involves democracy or voting.
      Imposition?

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

      The first political party to highlight all this before the next GE may well win.

      Not in a million years.

  8. Sea_Warrior
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    ‘Some may decide to renew their gas boiler with another just before they are banned as they like that product and are wary of the new.’ And that, I think, is what I will be doing next year. Being a ‘Grand Designs’ addict, I know that you need a Northumberland castle to make a heat-pump viable.
    Some time ago, when the Liberal/Conservative Coalition governed, and we had to endure early pressure to ‘smart meter’ the land, I quipped that Energy policy would be better placed in the hands of a comedian, like Rowan Atkinson. Then I looked at his Wiki entry and discovered that it would be.
    Notwithstanding yesterday’s welcome news on Defence expenditure, I have pretty much lost all confidence in the Johnson government. He has to go. It is time for the men in white coats to take him away. The word ‘wibble’ comes to mind. There, Atkinson again!

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:27 am | Permalink

      You may get caught up in difficulty with annual service, taxes, insurances…goodness knows what.
      Johnson needs to spend on defence to put troops on the streets.
      Probably to look out for illicit gas boilers.

    • turboterrier
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

      Sea Warrior
      “Pretty much lost confidence”

      I have totally lost it.

    • glen cullen
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:21 am | Permalink

      Sadly I fully agree – but not just Boris…any MP who supports these ludicrous green policies

  9. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    We don’t have gas. We have an oil boiler which is extremely efficient and only 18 months old. We have insulated our home and our oil consumption is very low. NO. We will not be changing our boiler. If we were to change our car which is a necessity as we live in a rural area with a rubbish bus service it might be for a hybrid but certainly not electric. I am in favour of changing the government though for a party that leaves all this crap behind.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      The announcement was not that petrol and diesel cars would be banned from 2030 it was that cars solely powered by ICE engines – so your hybrid would get you by.

      If subsidies are offered and scrappage is reasonable, it might be worthwhile buying a hybrid, there are many savings to be made and drivers keep the range of an ICE car.

      This looks like an issue the market could solve, if the product is good enough.

      Boilers – not so much. Gas is the better product and who wants their central heating system stripped out while they are habiting a house?

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

        They have specifically said Hybrids will be banned too.

    • boffin
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      Agreed, and likewise we don’t have gas either – we have an air-source heat pump.

      Beware, folks! – these are efficient in temperate weather, but when it gets really cold and damp they become very inefficient because they have to trigger a defrost cycle every hour or so, and pump heat OUT.

      When they suck in snow, forget it – we are just paying to warm the globe then, until we revert to burning imported anthracite or oil in our ‘emergency’ stoves. (We’re going to need these when the gas grid falls down, and takes the electricity grid with it).

    • turboterrier
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      F U S
      I do not think you are alone on wanting real change. The whole energy CO2 phobia the politician’s have terrified themselves into is akin to the Emperors new clothes.

      Hopefully sooner rather than later the child will shout out.0

      The way we are being treated is sadly driven by ignorance, incompetence and arrogance and that is why it is essential for seismic change to happen if this country wants to really survive.

    • RichardP
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

      I agree.
      Changing the Government would be easier, cheaper and probably better for the environment.

    • graham1946
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:21 am | Permalink

      ‘Change the government’ – the best idea. We are country dwellers in a similar situation. Next year Gove is threatening to ban our wood burners as well. I wrote to my MP protesting this and giving chapter and verse on wood burning and got a letter back saying MP’s support Gove, mostly based on the error of allowing wood burners in smokeless zones so the trendy chattering classes could make out they are living the ‘Good Life’. What can you do? The elderly will never be able to live with just ground or air source heat pumps, they are just not good enough, are expensive, require bigger radiators and run off, yet again electricity. Where is the juice coming from to electrify 25 million boilers? Glorified electric storage heaters, the same. It’s a sick joke which we will have to pay and suffer for, whilst the ruling classes go their own merry way on their insulated big money.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

      I am in favour of changing the government though for a party that leaves all this crap behind.

      No such thing – and never will be while we have the Tory and Labour dominated first past the post political system.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

        Why do you think FPTP is by definition Tory and Labour dominated. Learn a bit of history. The Labour Party is new – it replaced the Whigs (Liberals).

        • graham1946
          Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

          We can’t wait another hundred years – the country will be bust before this decade is out at the rate Con/Lab are going.
          When did we last have a government not of Con/Lab?

    • Timaction
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

      Indeed. Get rid of the Tory Party and find and elect a “Conservative” Government. people have woken up to the great deception.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

        any idea how we will recognise it in order to elect it?

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

          Yep. JR will be leading it.

  10. Stephen Priest
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    Politicians ALWAYS practice what they preach with Green and Covid

    The great lockdown hypocrites

    California’s hardline governor has not been practising what he preaches. Maybe politicians should stop preaching
    BY DOUGLAS MURRAY on Unherd.com website

  11. Sea_Warrior
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    I’m wondering what all this means for the TBP/Reform Party. Given the comments on this site, I’d be surprised if ‘calling out’ the established parties on Green issues wouldn’t be part of the TBP/RP policy mix.

  12. BW
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    This is madness. Utter madness. Just making these ridiculous statements alone is destroying industries. Has Boris seen the size and population of China? What will they do? This or caving in on Brexit will send the Tories into oblivion.
    We can no longer say there is no alternative. Lawrence Fox appears be the only person talking sense at the moment.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

      See the problem John? When you are tied to the Boris bandwagon whatever you say is discounted.

  13. jim
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    Much more effective will be to gradually stabilise and reduce the human population and also reduce their economic activity. Not very popular, will need some good spin.

    New boilers and new kinds of car are all very amusing and necessary but far from enough. Endless growth will be the finish of us.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

      They have those plans already, the embryo One World Government, in 1984 Thry stated that ‘the poor, sick and old’ were not required.

      • graham1946
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

        Was that written by Andy’s grandad?

        • Fred H
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 8:30 am | Permalink

          Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.

  14. davews
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    By 2030 I will be 80 and too old to be worried about electric cars. For those of us in terraced houses they are impractical to charge anyway. So no, As for boilers a ridiculous idea, the efficiency and cost of running a gas boiler far outweigh heating by electric. Heat pumps are also impractical for many smaller homes and running costs also far higher. You will have to drag me from my house before you replace my 5 year old gas boiler.

  15. alan jutson
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    In answer to your question.

    Replaced our original 36 year old gas boiler 6 years ago, and upgraded the whole hot water system with a pressurised one at the same time, so will not be planning to replace the boiler again (still under its 10 year guarantee) unless it completely fails.

    Was looking to replace one of our vehicles (had it 20 years) with another within the next 12-24 months, but will continue to run it until it is beyond economic repair such is the chaos of the proposed 2030 farce, when most vehicles on the road powered by diesel, petrol or hybrid will by then be almost worthless, with fuel scarce as Filling Stations gradually close through lack of business..

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

      They won’t be worthless. They will be at a premium, in fact.

      This is where the great levelling down takes place, in fact.

  16. GilesB
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    In the UK, the cost of electricity is 10-15p/kWh and the cost of gas is just 3.5-4p/kWh.

    Changing to electricity would quadruple the running costs of central heating.

  17. alan jutson
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Will I be changing my car

    Not now, no point it will be worthless in 2030.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

      In fact the price of second hand ICE vehicles are going to shoot through the roof.

  18. BeebTax
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    I had to replace my gas boiler 2 years ago. I paid top dollar to get a very reliable one that should last a long time. I’ve got no intention to replace it, not least because I can’t afford to.

    I have a 19 year old car that serves me well. I’ve no intention to replace that either. And given I’ve never paid more than £2000 for a car I can’t see myself in an electric vehicle any time soon, unless it’s a hearse.

    The government risks introducing some highly regressive policies via this greenwash, by which it can kiss goodbye to its “levelling up” agenda and the votes it hopes go with that.

  19. SM
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    I’m afraid that, despite having been a Conservative voter for 40 years, and a dedicated Party worker for much of that time, it will not be getting my (proxy) vote this time unless this carbon insanity is dropped.

    I am all in favour of caring for the environment but I am not in favour of swallowing wild climate theories wholesale – remember when, in the 1970’s, accredited scientists and NASA told us that there would be an Ice Age within 20 years, predicted general starvation and the disappearance of inhabited islands, etc?

  20. Sakara Gold
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    As far as I can understand, there is no element of compulsion to force the public to immediately replace existing gas/oil heating equipment or carbon vehicles.

    The intention is that from 2030, new sales of carbon vehicles and gas boilers will be banned. So from then, when the public’s existing equipment reqires replacement, only electic boilers/heat pumps and electric vehicles can be sold. There will be no element of compulsion to immediately rip out existing gas/oil boilers or exchange carbon vehicles. However, for new build property, electric CH is already the only form of heating that is being currently installed

    This has started to have an effect on the pricing structures. Having recently had my (old) Worcester Greenstar GE gas boiler serviced – which cost me £1200 only 8 years back – I asked the engineer how much to replace it? His reply was that for an equivalent electric model, roughly £650. And it would run off the free electricity from my solar panels during the day, as does my highly efficient air conditioning system.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

      and how much did you spend on the solar panels, how long will they last, and how much to replace them?

      • Sakara Gold
        Posted November 21, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

        Its a 12-panel 3.5Kw system that was installed 6 years ago for £4500. I had a 10year parts and labour guarantee on the solar panels and a 5 year guarantee on the inverter, however after Cameron scrapped the FITS scheme (“greencrap”) the installing company went out of business.

        I still have the documentation. The panels were projected to last for 20 years however they degrade at a rate of approx 3% per annum, the inverter is still working just fine.

        The cost of solar panels and inverters has fallen dramatically and as far as I can establish replacement panels would cost ~ 10% of what I paid for them, a replacement inverter about half. To offset that, the cost of labour has gone up.

  21. MPC
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Net zero was invented by a lame duck prime minister in her dying days in office and was opposed by her own chancellor who warned of the insane cost. Now we have an even more extreme PM and and an opposition in parliament who wants more of the same. The 10 point green plan is set to destroy future prosperity and yet all Newsnight talked about last night was Priti Patel and Manchester University students. Ironically the only way out of this Orwellian nightmare of bias is to have some balanced debate on the BBC and elsewhere, where the interests of ordinary people you describe are aired. Without that and some sort of shift in direction I worry greatly about the economic prospects of my children’s generation.

  22. Roy Grainger
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    If the local council installs 200 charging stations in my street in London I might consider an electric car (because we don’t have garages or drives or private parking areas where we can install them ourselves). If the local council builds a district heating scheme using heat pump technology I might stop using a gas boiler (because I don’t have a garden or enough wall space to install my own heat pump system).

    I assume these won’t happen, so I’ll keep my petrol car and gas boiler and the Conservatives will punish me by massively increasing petrol tax and vehicle duty, put a new tax on gas, and implement dynamic electricity pricing via monitoring my smart meter so I can’t afford to use any when the wind isn’t blowing. That’s if they get elected again on this programme, which is unlikely looking at how many votes the Green Party got in the last election.

  23. Caterpillar
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Sir John – “Will you change cars and boilers?”
    Conservative Govt – You will change cars and boilers or you won’t travel and your power will be switched off.

    We have seen what this Govt, supported by the ‘opposition’ is like this year, by the next General Election (assuming they still exist), one can only imagine (if old enough to still have free thought) what destruction will have happened.

  24. Richard1
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    It is quite extraordinary that policies like these can be announced without costs and without a rigorous cost-benefit analysis. It is is also extraordinary – though not at all surprising – that the useless Labour Party (and of course the ridiculous LibDems) think the right reaction is to concentrate on vague halo-polishing about how concerned they are about climate change rather than demanding such costing and analysis.

    The public have to rely on the very few politicians prepared to ask questions and on independent sources such as Björn Lomberg and Michael Schellenberger, who do the analysis and are willing to have opprobrium heaped on them.

    I read Boris’s ten green points. Fortunately the language seems to leave just enough wriggle room that I suspect not much of this will actually happen. By the time Biden has taken such policies through Congress it will be the same thing in the US.

  25. agricola
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Government are led by lawyers, hardly a scientific or engineering brain between them. I want to see a cost, benefit, disadvantage analysis of each proposal. By which I mean unit cost, running cost and depreciation. The sort of analysis that must have been totally absent when government dreamt up HS2. As a glaring example of the contrast between a government of lawyers and the technically competent consider the saga of Covid 19. Government unprepared , running around in circles, blowing hot and cold, while the scientific community get their heads down and produce a series of vaccines. The green tsunami led by this government has all the ingredients of a giant snafu, with a destroyed productive industry left in it’s wake.

  26. Newmania
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Quite . People struggling along will bitterly resent the financial disaster inflicted on them by show boating global poseurs. After everything else this government has done to make our lives a misery why are we even surprised.
    It does prove one thing , the idea that out of the EU we would no longer have stupid bureaucratic inept government is now dead . As I have always said , if you think the UK will suddenly turn into paradise think again . It never was , and it never will be .
    You can no longer blame anyone lese this is you . You are doing this

    • Stred
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 4:30 am | Permalink

      The EU and UN are pushing the same policy. Out of the EU we have a chance of kicking out the politicians who caused a disaster.

  27. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    The problem is that your party in government is now confident in its ability to control the population. If they can lock people in their own homes, close down their businesses, how easy is it to track their use of gas boilers and fine or imprison them for that?

    They should soon be able to track emissions from individual houses by satellite, and clearly an emissions charge per property would apply. Double bubble while they’re chucking money at housebuilders to build insulated rabbit hutches.

    We need to get out of this bind.

  28. Sharon
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    As I awoke this morning I remembered reading an article by a woman who wrote about her concerns about the climate warming obsession. I can’t recall if she gave any time scale to her argument, but she indicated that we are at the top of a downward trajectory to climate cooling. Her concerns were, that if preparations were being made for zero emissions, we would not be prepared for the cooling period. She was particularly concerned about food growth, which would need to be protected under cover.

    So in answer to your questions. I think the whole green climate change is political. Some folk firmly believe in it, but as the ten point plan is absurdly expensive, awful timing, ill thought out, will have the most extreme outcomes to the wealth of the nation, no I shall not be changing anything. Hopefully, we’ll get a proper conservative government in whereby discussion can be had at the very least. It would seem, from reading around, that a large number of people are outraged and questioning Boris’ sanity.

    • Sharon Jagger
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

      Why is my post still awaiting moderation?

    • Stred
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 4:40 am | Permalink

      In the last ice age the CO2 concentration dropped close to the point where plant life could not survive. That really would be extinction. Another ice age is imminent and more carbon has been absorbed into calcium carbonate by the action of the sea crustaceans that created the chalk. Unless mankind can increase the CO2 concentration through the ice age then life in this galaxy within billions of light years will be snuffed out.

  29. bill brown
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Sir JR

    On a completely different note.

    The continued charade by Mr. Trump and Giuliani and the loss of more than 30 court cases, does make the supposed false claims begin to look like a circus.
    This is not good for the eletion process nor for the reputation of US democracy, this charade of false claims of major vote rigging must come to an end.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

      Trump expects the courts to consider his groundless accusations on the basis that if the accused cannot prove conclusively that they are innocent, then they are guilty as charged.

      Courts do not work like that.

      Commenters here need to learn that too.

    • Stred
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 4:49 am | Permalink

      If the states using vote forgery and bent electronic counting get away with it, then the USA will become a politically split banana republic. The matter will go to the Supreme Court and they will overrule the swing states where the late night votes reversed the early trend, or the Democrats will take steps to rig the vote permanently and there will be no point in having a special relationship with our fellow founders of real democracy.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 21, 2020 at 11:15 am | Permalink

        Stred

        Which states are using vote forgery and bent electronic counting?

        Please, give us proof of your stated argument

        • Stred
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

          Wait for the depositions to the Supreme Court. Why would respected lawyers risk their reputations by lying if they had no proof. The voting machines have been designed to be manipulated without being detected but this time the scale of the fraud has been enough to be shown in the statistically impossible graphs. The voting slips were also not checked for signature matching and these should be checked by independent investigators. The FBI is at last becoming involved. Trump has a right to challenge the strange result just as Gore did.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

            Stred

            Of course Trump does have the right but his lies are taking over from reality. See below

        • anon
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

          Look for the sites which support trump and read.
          The ones that have not been censored, in the land of the free, or otherwise spammed off the web or sidelined in any way possible.

          We know how the establishment and anti-democrats work.
          The warnings are plain as day and night.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

            anon

            are you sure you do not see too many conspiracies teh Trump administation is getting more and more desperate and are developing even more lies. Like Chvez in Venezuela have manpulated the voting machines with China and Cuba.

  30. Aaron Shone
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Having a diverse range of heating solutions creates a market and enables competition. It also supports a range of end user requirements, ie heat pumps for huge mansions, gas for 2-4 bed houses, electric for flats and smaller accommodation. Plus oil burners. Consolidating all of these types of heating into electric seems the antithesis of both market economics and common sense. There are already concerns that base capacity of the grid will not be sufficient with the increase of electric cars, and this push to add more to the electrical grid seems to be a gamble.
    My fear is that anything that disrupts the electrical grid, such as a cyber attack (as happened in Ukraine) or a cascade failure (Northern America) or a solar flare, could then have a correspondingly greater impact as everyone will be dependent on the electric grid for heating their homes. Not to mention the sheer insanity of smart meters, where one successful cyber attack could disconnect the electrical supply to a large number of houses and frustrate the operator’s ability to reconnect people.

    You talk about making electric cars and heating more appealing to consumers and justifying the switch. This is the wrong approach. Reduce carbon emissions by finding the biggest emitter and taxing them. These taxes will get passed to consumers, who will move away from the expensive products.

  31. George Brooks.
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    All this grandstanding rubbish about electric cars is so that BJ can host next years Climate conference and say ”what a good boy am I”!!!!!!

    Will I change my cars? NO. I have no wish to be stranded with a flat battery that has a range of less than 300 miles and having to find a place to wait 8 our 9 hours while it is recharging.

    Will I change my oil boiler? I will look at the viability of a heat pump and then decide, but it will not be in a rush.

    Would I install solar panels? Yes, but I can’t as my house is in an AONB. We have a host of conflicting rules and regs’ that need to be changed and we don’t need a lot of stupid bluster forcing us back to how our grand parents lived at the end of the 19th century

  32. Iain Moore
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    No , the financial incentive for us will be to change the Government. One vote and all the costly faddish eco policies will be gone, as will all the zealots who are trying to impose those policies on us.

  33. MickN
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    I have no driveway but I do have a modest front garden.
    An electric car for my wife and I would require either that we trail two charger leads across the pavement thereby creating a trip hazard, or concrete over my front garden to provide a hard standing within my property.
    Fortunately I am of an age whereby I don’t think it will be an issue for me. It is sad though that it is only being in the autumn of your days that offers small comfort against such lunacy.
    People defending Boris say that this was in the last manifesto. What I saw was a promise to consult on the date when the government could start to phase out diesel and petrol cars. Can you remind us when that took place and who was consulted as I appear to have missed it.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

      “People defending Boris say that this is his last manifesto…”

      Damn. You go that right !

      Get him out. Gun point, pitch fork… whatever. NOW.

  34. Martyn G
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Has the super-green PM and his aide-de- camp not thought of including the tens of thousands of petrol and diesel engined working and pleasure boats on our canals, rivers and harbours in this mad drive to eliminate IC powered craft? Some could be relatively easily but expensively converted to electric motivation. Some might be large enough for a solar-panel array to keep their batteries charged, but what about when the sun don’t shine, or does so for limited hours in winter? Who, how and where will the required number of mains-powered charging points be provided?
    The annual licensing fees for these craft are a considerable income for the government and go a long way towards funding waterways maintenance and the employment of lock and weir keepers on some waterways like the Thames.
    What about those boats that cannot be converted to electric power? Will there be a scrappage scheme to recompense their owners? Somehow, common sense has been removed from those who govern us.

  35. Walt
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Currently I do not want to change, buy I might do so (a) willingly if for a product that better serves my needs and which is readily affordable in a free market, or (b) unwillingly if forced to do so by law or by punitive taxation. The former is the happy result of constructive capitalism; the latter generates more resentment of government with its deceptions, falsehoods and outright cheating of British citizens.

  36. Lifelogic
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    “Covid” deaths last week were only 1% higher than the week before so levelling off and should be decling in a day or two from now.

    Plus it is perfectly clear (from the age profile and other statistics) that many of these death were not caused by Covid and many were false positive Covid test and deaths from other causes.

    What on earth was the second lockdown for? It will cause far far more harm than good and cost a fortune.

    • Stred
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:02 am | Permalink

      If they keep testing late treated cancer, heart, stroke, respiratory and diabetes patients and classifying them as ‘died with covid on the death certificate’ they will be able to justify more mini lockdowns because of the transfer of the increase and concealed rise in deaths caused by lockdown.
      And then they will claim that they saved us from another epidemic by locking down.

      • DaveK
        Posted November 21, 2020 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

        Conversely by returning to honest data reports will show the Silver Bullet has worked. Trebles all round!

  37. a-tracy
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    I have just changed our boiler and want ten years out of it, British Gas assured me that it was capable of that.

    As for cars, you can’t get a test drive, the garages are so comfy cozy when they could organise test drives they couldn’t be bothered. Don’t make me laugh, they need some serious competition but we won’t get it until Germany have all their ducks lined up in a row.

    Like with the new modern UK designed vacuum they didn’t want to release in Germany until their manufacturers were ready. If you want serious electric taking off then you need the lower costs brands from China and the East in the UK to compete.

    ps the bullying of Patel is more than anything she did I’m sure, our media stink.

  38. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    I don’t think they do want us to scrap our cars and boilers. They are just saying that you won’t be able to buy gas or ICE cars after a set date.

    There. I’ve been fair on Prime Minister Symonds and other people I disagree with but…

    – No mention of mass immigration at all in the UK debate on our carbon footprint.

    – No mention of China’s culpability in the CV-19 crisis.

    I suppose someone squeals “hate crime !” and that’s it. Balanced debate becomes illegal. Even a Lefty like JK Rowling is being cancelled.

    Insanity !

  39. Bryan Harris
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    They also want us to go back to the dark ages in terms of how we live…

    I will neither switch to an electric car nor throw out the gas boiler until I have no other choice — In other words the greenies will win in the end, unless some sense can be brought to bear.

    The cost of this for us all will be extortionate on a personal level, which I resent utterly, given that CC is another fake story.

    We still do not have the capacity to generate enough electricity… There just are not enough windmills to bring us even a fraction of what we need even if every hill was covered with the useless things…. So our capacity to live fruitful lives will be highly curtailed.

    Technology is what should drive major changes in how we live, not some brainwashed politically correct puppet.

    Electric vehicles are still nowhere near as capable as petrol driven ones, in terms of refueling or mileage… Perhaps Boris is expecting a major breakthrough due to the sheer strength of his personality.

    With a change of luck greenie governments will be assigned to the dustbin of history before this irrationality comes to pass.

  40. Lifelogic
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Heat pumps have many issues, are very expensive to install and maintain (expecially in an old house). You often need new rads all round and have to dig up your garden for the heat source. Plus you then use electricity which costs far more than gas. Also you might need a new more robust electric supply to cope (as with electric cars). Often very slow to heat up a cold house too unless you have very large radiators.

    No thanks. When it works efficiently, is cheap enough and is cost effective perhaps – but certainly not yet.

    • DaveK
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

      I have asked why my town, which has plans to build approx 1000 houses, not a single one has solar panels or GSHP in the plans. After all, making the trenches required whilst the diggers are there in a bare field seems logical to me. As is putting in underfloor heating (one of the better ways to heat using GSHP) during the build. To me it indicates no one is actually serious about this.

  41. boffin
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Our gas grid is most horribly vulnerable to sabotage by unfriendly action, be it on land or at sea, against which it is extremely difficult to defend.

    Following the ‘dash for gas’ and the closure of our traditional base-load power stations, loss of the gas grid will bring down the electricy network with it. What price electric cars, heat pumps and the like, then?

    Parliament is stuffed with PPEs and similar ignorami who lack the wits to understand the basic thermodynamics, which tell us that even the most efficient thermal power stations of necessity lose nearly half their input energy in cooling,

    The more savvy Dutch were putting in the infrastructure to use this otherwise wasted energy (e.g. from the energiecentrale in the middle of The Hague) for district heating DECADES ago.

    A halfway competent government would be going for combined heat+power as top priority now, instead of Boris’ crazy gimmicks. (Preferably, with urgent support for small safe nuclear, in which we are being left way behind).

  42. rose
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    No we are not going to change our boiler again. It was a mistake the first two times. The one we inherited from our predecessors was really good and very well made. We should not have allowed ourselves to be persuaded to replace it with inferior ones.

    First the EU threatens in desperation to cut off our continental supplies of energy; then it resorts to cutting off the talks between the main negotiators with the excuse of the Wuhan virus, when we all know there is such a thing as the internet; and finally, the really big weapon is wheeled out: the BBC’s half German Katya Adler tells us we “must now give up some sovereignty”!

    • rose
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:41 am | Permalink

      We have never had a car, but have suffered from other people having them and using them inconsiderately. Electric cars and smaller cars are welcome, so long as the bureaucrats don’t insist on their being fitted with artificial electronic noise.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

        you prefer to face death stepping off the pavement without hearing your imminent demise?

        • rose
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

          We already manage with hybrids driving past. And bikes. Actually, I think hybrids might turn out to be the best bet all round.

  43. Richard416
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    I don’t understand why governments (including local councils) meddle with individual preferences and freedoms, when nobody has asked them to do it, and knowing it will cause inconvenience to the public. There are exceptions, the Clean Air Act for example, but by and large governmental bodies should refrain from doing things in order to be seen to be doing something.

  44. John Halom
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    It’s working well for the government agenda of reducing mobility and keeping us all in smart cities reliant on government handouts and under 24/7 survellence. I am constantly amazed that some people can’t see where this is heading.

  45. David L
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    I suggest those promoting the banning and scrapping of petrol and diesel cars get their message across by having a stand at Goodwood for the next Festival of Speed. They’ll find an audience willing to engage and discuss the matter and possibly point out the impracticalities of such a policy in a civilised manner. Should any government try to enforce the scrapping of my “classic” pride and joy the civilised manner will be absent!

  46. Roger W Carradice
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Sir John
    I think that there is an opportunity for a Conservative Party in this country.
    Roger

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

      I think Conservatism might catch on too. After all, President Trump won such a landslide that it broke the ‘biggest voter fraud operation in the world’ according to Uncle Joe.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 22, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

        Lynn

        which landslside proof please

  47. None of the above
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    We fitted a new combi Boiler only 3 years ago and we will not replace it until it is worn beyond repair. Our house is fully insulated. We have family who live more than 200 miles away and there are currently no facilities for charging. We will not, under any curcumstances, purchase ev. We might consider a hybrid if we could afford to change our car (we are pensioners). For at least two Family members public transport is not an option.

    • None of the above
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:34 am | Permalink

      Please ask the Government to answer the following quedtions.

      What is the carbon footprint for the manufacture of electric vehicles as compared to petrol or diesel vehicles of similar power and size?
      How do the ‘whole life’ costs of these vehicles compare?
      How do the ‘whole life’ carbon footprints compare?
      What will be the increase in carbon footprint to upgrade the electric supply infrastructure to cope with the dramatic increase in demand caused by recharging these EVs?

  48. turboterrier
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    We only have ourselves to blame if we are all totally honest.

    There were more than enough concerns around about BJand his suitability for the role of leader. It seems the pigeons have come home to roost. Too much living in la la land and not enough costing anything before giving consideration to implementation.

  49. Geoff not Hoon
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    I already have an Air Source Heat Pump. Does it work? Yes but it can run all day and night and never be as warm as our prior oil system. Only after installation were we told the hot water cylinder contains a heat element that super heats the domestic hot water once each week to kill off the chance of legionairres disease in the less than really hot water system. Slightly scary to my wife and I but too late to say no. I believe new systems today still have to have this extra heat element.

  50. Messenger
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Cost of decarbonising housing, below.

    COST OF DECARBONISING HOUSING
    Net zero costsheet 1
    Andrew Montford
    The Global Warming Policy Forum
    http://www.thegwpf.com

    Now add the cost of all the rest of this Net Zero nonsense.

  51. majorfrustration
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Lets hear it for the Reform Party.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

      OK

      “Clear off, Reform Party”

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 12:55 am | Permalink

      +100

  52. Frank
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    What the government is telling us is that petrol and diesel vehicles are better than electric. If they weren’t there would be no reason to ban them because the market would take care of it. The government should not be in the business of picking winners (or losers). It has a long record of failure when it tries to do so.

    Just level the playing field. If carbon is the problem, tax carbon and allow manufacturers and inventors to come up with the solution. Or several competing solutions so the the public can choose between them.

  53. dixie
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    I did change my car to a BEV from a diesel, after the government did bugger all when it and the German auto industry decimated it’s value. Since I’m just an oik with no influence I decided to jump a bit early while said government was willing to give some of my money back to switch.

    I think electric is better than oil for ground transport but some need longer range and I can see routes to retaining HC fuels for those and other applications, just not by sucking it out of the ground. Battery and charging technologies are improving relatively rapidly so range, cost and on-road charging will get addressed in time.

    Not sure about space heating though. Instead of holidays we double glazed, upgraded insulation and replaced the boiler a couple of years ago so we’ll see how long that lasts.

    And we will wait and see exactly how the government will force everyone to stop using gas, especially the poorer families.

  54. formula57
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Climate change (if capable of amelioration by human action now) and pollution should be tackled but as with the “follow the dubious science” Covid responses, there will be muted support for cures that seem worse than the problem.

    My home came with an air source heat pump that works well. As for cars, price and capabilities of electric first need to more closely match the ICE offerings before I will voluntarily switch.

  55. Know-Dice
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    To make the switch happen government and business together have to come up with a great offer which makes people think the replacement is better than the old

    I don’t think “think” is strong enough…any replacement needs to ACTUALLY be better than the item it’s replacing.

    Current battery technology is a non-starter, investment needs to be in other technologies that use resources that we have in the UK not rely on child labour in the DRC.

    Is the use of electricity for heating, cooking etc really more efficient than gas? The only advantage that I see is that by using Smart Meters it can be turned off selectively at the flick of a remote switch…

    And on a different subject, I thought it was good to hear Lewis Hamilton say “diversity targets are not helpful” giving somebody a job or opportunity just because they are NOT white or NOT male really doesn’t forward the anti-racist or gender equality cause.

  56. Rob Murray
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Members of Parliament (Lords and Commons) and civil servants, as well as others promoting or enabling special interests, will be aware that the country is in thrall to the legislative imperatives enacted by our sovereign parliament, namely, Climate Change and Sustainable Energy Act 2006 and Climate Change Act 2008. fully described in Wikipedia articles, including the names of the only five valiant MPs who opposed the 2008 Act: Chope, P.Davies, Lilley (now Lord), Tyrie and Widdecombe, defying the whip when Cameron was leader of Tory party and opposition. If the policy is madness now, it was then, on the primrose path evolved by the sponsors of the Great Reset.

  57. formula57
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    O/T (for which apologies but like all O/T authors, I consider what I have to say of overriding importance) – This naval build-up of doubtful merit is not to satisfy obligations assumed by the May the quisling/Duncan defence accords with the Evil Empire is it? If so, Boris out!

  58. William Long
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    The answer to both your questions is ‘No, not if I can help it’. The record of Governments of all colours in deciding what is best for us, as witness repeated fiascos in my memory, from the Ground Nuts scheme, to the recent deisel nonsense, is so poor, that all I will do is sit and wait for the denouement of thislates innitiative.
    This Government is commited to an agenda of ‘Levelling up’ which is supposed, I thought, to mean bringing the lives of those in the economically less fortunate areas of the country more in line with those in the favoured areas of London and the South East. So why does it rush with quite unnecessary haste into a policy that is only affordable by the latter and only wanted by them?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

      All socialists know that to get everyone level, you have to push down. It’s not possible to ‘lift’. So equal education means no education. Equal wages means nobody gets a living wage. Equal anything means going down to the lowest common denominator.

  59. Mike Stallard
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    I am getting angry now. The green agenda is not what I voted for. Why has it come about? Who is giving this rotten advice to the (isolated) Prime Minister? What do the MPs think? When is parliament coming back to bring some common sense into the discussion?

    Government through decree is inefficient and it does things which are, frankly, very silly. That is why I voted Brexit.

  60. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    We will not change our gas heating system or our diesel car for anything electric. As it is we have intermittent blackouts and living in Northumberland, 55* north – same latitude as Moscow, we need to consume more energy to heat and light our homes, offices and shops in the winter than do those on the sunny Thames Embankmemt. In fact any rational policy would subsidise the north to equalise the energy costs between north and south. That would tangibly ‘level up’.

    Public transport has proven to be dangerous (first thing closed down in this ‘pandemic’), so no sentient government can demand we depend on it. Electric cars are the reverse of green and don’t do the job especially in the big open spaces of the north.

    Mad Boris must go and fast. His reputation is seeping into the whole party because you are tolerating him, rather like the Royal Family losing support because they tolerate Meghan.

  61. BetterTimesAhead
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    The Green Party received an abysmal 2.7% of the vote in the 2019 GE.

    A ringing rejection of their policies.

    For some reason, Boris thinks adopting the Green Party Madcap policies is the way forward.

    No Green Party voter will ever vote Tory. But a lot of Tory voters, such as myself will not vote Tory again, while they carry on like this.

    • Andy
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

      More people voted Green in 2019 than voted for the Brexit Party. Farage wanted a no deal – which is basically what we are getting whether or not the incompetent blonde oaf signs a piece of paper.

      A ringing rejection of the Faragist’s policy.

      • graham1946
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

        Except for the fact that Farage stood down a large number of his candidates in order to get a Tory govt to get Brexit done. So no, as usual you are wrong.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

        Twisted.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

      Huge majority against ‘same sex marriage’ too but the Tories pushed it through. I saw a man pacifying a baby in a supermarket, saying ‘Mummy is coming’ – along came a bearded bloke who looked like a hod-carrier – this poor child’s ‘Mummy’. I nearly fell over.
      Britain in aping Rome and we are on course to equal it in decadence soon, and we will suffer the same fall.

  62. The Prangwizard
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    I live in a village which has no mains gas, no bus service and no train station, the nearest is 12 miles away. Some homes are heated by oil, others by stored gas and I dare say a lot have log burners as supplements as do I. Our electricity has supply breaks now and again in spite of claims that the sources of failures have been found and fixed. My house has solid walls.

    I lived previously in a house built in 1997 which was all electric and it was pleasant but costly.

    Improving insulation on new builds is fine but the idea that authoritarian measures can be justifed is wholly unacceptable and must be resisted. I have done the little I can so far in refusing a ‘Smartmeter’.

    If efficient home insulation can be provided at a high level then gas boilers will not need to be burning much anyway and there will be no need to destroy and land and marine environment with windfarms. Sadly we are faced with dangerous ideologues such as the PM and ways must be found to get in his way if he can’t be removed and replaced with someone more reasonable. He is deaf to opposition and our democracy and freedoms are being usurped. Other means of opposition to him and his government are justified.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

      Your last paragraph’s opening makes a very important point.

      A very well-insulated home in principle would need no heating at all, that being done by the waste heat from freezers, cookers, dishwashers etc.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 21, 2020 at 8:30 am | Permalink

        If you think you can heat a home by just the small amount of output heat from fridges cookers and dishwashers etc then you are very mistaken.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

          not mistaken – idiotic. More heat output from the residents.

  63. glen cullen
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    The question shouldn’t be would we follow sure a draconian communist law – the question should be why sure a draconian communist law is being enacted on the people

    Let the people decide

  64. Original Chris
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    No, we will not be changing our boiler or car.

    The globalists’ green agenda is based on flawed science, and it will bankrupt the economies of the countries involved.

  65. Pieter C
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    The Government daren’t admit the true cost of their “Green Agenda”, which will end up at several trillion. The problem with heat pumps is that the cheapest (air source) pumps start at £10,000 and because the water can’t be heated to more than 40 degrees, you either need to install underfloor heating or double the radiator area. Far better and cheaper to move to hydrogen based fuel for boilers.
    Battery electric cars are not zero carbon. The best option would be to set the motor industry a “minimal carbon” target and given the progress made over the last 30 years in increasing efficiency, reducing weight whilst improving safety and eliminating much pollution, this would be achieved, producing a much more cost-effective solution, by using as much existing infrastructure as possible, as with hyrogen fuelled boilers.
    43% of the existing car and van fleet parks on the road, making battery re-charging a logistical nightmare.
    Finally, all this cost, the destruction of much of our way of life and our economy to achieve a reduction in the 1% of global CO2 emitted by the UK to zero, whilst making no difference to global climate. Why? So that Boris and Co can feel virtuous? Groupthink? This Government has taken leave of its senses.

  66. Christine
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Given the strength of feeling in the contributions you received yesterday I doubt very much this government will be anywhere near power by 2030. As many have already said you can’t impose this global green agenda on the public without a huge backlash. Roll on the rise of The Reform Party. They did it for the European elections and next they will sweep through local and general elections because the voting public have nowhere left to turn. Or, is the solution to rig the voting system like other banana republics?

    P.S. Biden isn’t President yet.

  67. MWB
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    I would be happy to use a battery electric car, if the range between charges was acceptable, and if charging took lees time.
    A hybrid type might be the way to go.
    Why is there seldom any mention of hydrogen fuel cell electric cars ?

    I would be less happy to change my heatig system, and like others here, might just get another gas boiler before the cut-off date.

  68. Christine
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    I’ve only just replaced my gas boiler at great expense. I have no intention of replacing it in the next ten years unless the gas supply is switched off. The gas company is currently replacing all the gas pipes in my area, at great expense. Would they be doing this for a life span of 10 years? Buying an electric car will only happen if the cost and technology is up to it. As many others are doing, I will just keep running my current car until there is no alternative.

  69. BJC
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    No………….not exactly a vote-winner, is it?

    The government has become a serial failure because it consistently ignores the fundamentals of Common Law whereby we’re permitted to do what we want unless it’s prohibited in law, with the majority deciding via the ballot box, the general direction of travel the country will take. We didn’t vote for our money to be distributed for these unviable, inconvenient and costly measures and don’t want or like the alien concept of the “permissions” granted in contintental law being used to inflict them on us……..or are they afraid to mention that the EU are still dictating government policy? Is this our sleight-of-hand trade-off contribution to EU emissions “Effort Sharing” measures so they don’t have to worry too much?

  70. Bootsy
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Sir,
    Reading the statistics you quote, I believe the drop in car purchaces is totally down to the wohflu as it shows people are not choosing the alterative

  71. glen cullen
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Will I change car and boiler ? NO

    Will I change governing political party ? YES

  72. Iain
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    I wonder how far a tank will travel on battery power.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

      and how big it will be to house the batteries.

    • glen cullen
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

      The challenger 2 tank wouldn’t even start-up in Salisbury plain in a mid winter morning –5c with a hundred batteries

  73. RichardP
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    I will stay with gas for heating and cooking because I expect electricity to become prohibitively expensive. I might also buy a generator because the electricity supply is likely to be unreliable when the wind doesn’t blow.
    It could be a good investment to buy a couple of petrol cars close to the deadline because they will be in demand.

  74. Robert McDonald
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    The simpler and more cost effective solution to these greta green issues would be to encourage / press car manufacturers to make their diesel and petrol even more pollution free than they have already achieved. I am sure such technology can be improved considerably, while I doubt if the manufacturing, operational and infrastructure costs of all electric will ever meet the inherent demand.

  75. Ian Dempster
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    The nonsense ideas currently coming from all members of the house of commons, is very much showing up the lack of expertise that they have. I have no idea how many MP’s have spent years working at a bench or making mechanical items work, but there are either very few or they have forgotten all the lessons learned. Ie (1) it is impossible to get something from nothing. Heat pumps will need constant electricity, those that work by extracting heat from the ground will first have to have had a large area of ground dug up, pipes laid and then the ground replaced. Alternatively if extracting heat from air, the noise that worn pumps will make will probably end up driving many people to distraction, plus the colder the ambient temperature the less efficient the pumps will be. Servicing of the pumps is likely to be expensive. (2) Huge amounts of people will live in buildings not designed for pumps and also not owned by them. (Blocks of flats.) (3) Blocking up air leaks in housing will result in dampness in the housing. (4) It is illegal to charge a car if the cabling has to extend across a walkway. (5) The amount of electricity required for these new ideas will need to be available 24/7, solar cells do not work at night and when high pressure is over the country wind turbines will also struggle to produce any electricity and certainly not enough for everybody. If large batteries can be made, then they will need to be charged. They will also have a limited life and be very expensive, and the people using the electricity (everybody) will have to pay the exorbitant bills for electricity and batteries.

    Ian Dempster.

  76. Andy
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    There seems to be two strands to what you are saying. Firstly, that this new
    technology is somehow less good than what we have now. It isn’t. Some of it is different but different does not necessarily mean worse. You can power and heat your home fully by low carbon sources and, frankly, other than significantly lower monthly bills you would not notice the difference. I urge you all to test drive an electric car. It will probably be the best vehicle you have ever driven. Do you have to think differently to drive electric? Sure – you have to remember to charge it overnight but for the vast majority of drivers the vast majority of the time an electric car is perfectly viable.

    Your second objection is cost. Clean technology is more expensive than what we have now. But this will change. As more people buy these things manufacturers and installers will benefit from economies of scale and costs for consumers will come down. In the meantime government can help by giving zero carbon technologies a boost. Apparently an advantage of Brexit is that you can remove VAT on tampons. So remove it on electric cars and heat pumps too.

    Your generation – the Baby Boomers – cares very cost of things but does not care about the cost of your consumerism to the planet. The fact is that man made climate change is a major threat to your children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. You lost the debate on taking severe action on climate change 20 years ago. You can get on board or you can get out of the way – because we are going to change the planet anyway. Whatever you all say or do.

    • graham1946
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

      Ah, the powerful Andy ‘we’. How do you propose to overthrow China and India then? ‘We’ again? Put them all in prison? If you get what you want and shut down the UK, it will not even be measurable on the world scale. Ludicrous.

    • Edward
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

      When living standards fall, when many people lose their jobs, when energy costs rise greatly and when the cost of driving around rises just watch voters become less enthusiastic.

      Good job we all have a vote.
      Or is that in your great reset plan too?

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

      Says the champagne socialist with his own drive and charging point in Beaconsfield and a chateau in France.

      I run two cars which I bought at 5 years old and intend to run them for 12. I am the ultimate recyclist.

  77. NickC
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    JR, You ask “Will you change cars – and boilers?”

    No.

    Everything about Boris Symonds’ green dream is wrong: from the top down socialist 10 year plan aspect, to the potty CAGW religion, to the technical illiteracy about windmills and the lack of back-up, to the failure to plan and build sufficient electricity generating plant. It is a dangerous, deluded disaster waiting to happen. It makes Gordon Brown’s aircraft carriers look sensible.

  78. Richard Davis
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    My wife and I both had electric cars for 6-7 years but had to go back to petrol and diesel due to the poor range and lack of charging points. We had to keep another car (petrol) for long trips. We won’t be buying any more electrics!

  79. John Hatfield
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    “or do not wish to have the disruption of replacement when their existing product is just fine.”
    Exactly, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

  80. IanT
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    We have the same gas boiler installed that was here when we moved in 30+ years ago . It has never failed. Our heating engineer says it will probably outlast us. There was a promotion a few years ago that gave a subsidy to anyone replacing an “old” boiler. We applied for a grant to find that a) our boiler didn’t qualify and b) the installer refused to install the new boiler where the old one is situated – and required another £4K to move it (plus of course, the cost of new boiler and its installation). So no subsidy and much extra cost to change.

    My son moved into a new flat a few years ago and the boiler failed regularly (half yearly on average) – as did his neighbours apparently. A local heating engineer used to be able to get them going (15-20 minutes) and at £300 a time was on a nice earner. I was pretty sure it was a problem with the embedded processor (?) needing rebooting but was never able to find the required info to do it for him. Other friends have had new boilers installed that needed replacing after eight years because the replacement parts were more than a new boiler would cost!

    So, if my existing boiler fails and is beyond economic repair, then I will replace it. But until that time, I’m going to keep running the existing one.

    Boris has completely lost his way with this matter. He’d better not bottle it on Brexit too.

    • JohnE
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

      Yes there’s a massive difference in durability between the old and new boilers. The new ones are compact and efficient but they aren’t built to last anywhere as long as they used to be. I don’t suppose anyone does total life comparisons to factor in the CO2 impact of the extra hardware changes.

  81. ukretired123
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Now you have to wonder where this nonsense will end quite frankly:-

    Equipment once well made that can last 20+ years
    Versus
    Equipment made x 3 times recycled in 21 years.

    Based on recent EU policies for many kinds of throw away recycling thinking.

  82. APL
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    JR: “The EU, the US under Mr Biden and the UK all want people to dump their petrol and diesel cars and buy electric or go by train. ”

    Go by train!?

    Are you insane, COVID, COVID, COVID. Public transport is a sewer of contagion!

    You trying to kill us?

  83. Andy
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    I have long believed that MPs and ministers should be held to higher standards than everyone else. If you put yourself forward for election your ethics – whatever your politics – should be completely beyond reproach.

    This should mean that there should never be any question about motives. As the expenses scandal showed there are politicians who abuse their position. Even now there are some who employ family members which, while not banned for longer serving MPs, still leaves a bit of a foul stench. Political donations, gifts and second jobs should all be banned.

    There is never any excuse for bullying and bad behaviour – whoever is involved. MPs who bully staff should lose their jobs. Period. Ministers who are found to have bullied staff – intentionally or otherwise – should be fired. There is simply no excuse for Priti Patel remaining in her job. Even if she was a competent minister – which she isn’t – she has been found to have broken the ministerial code and is a bully. As we know the blonde oaf is morally bankrupt so we should not expect him to fire another morally bankrupt minister. But the Conservative Party should be appalled at their behaviour because it absolutely shames all of you by association. Your party was once better than that. Not now.

    By the way, Patel’s career won’t survive. So it is odd that the oaf is protecting her.

    • Edward
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

      In other news Corbyn will soon be back.

    • IanT
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

      Just because Priti Patel is paranoid, doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get her!

    • Fred H
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

      She has a better chance of a future in Parliament than Alexander Johnson.

  84. Peter from Leeds
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    “There is no way in which one can buck the market”

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

      We are not bucking the market, we are bucking the Boris. BTW interesting to know what percentage of electric car sales are to corporations for their staff.

  85. Mark
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    The reason for the considerable downturn in vehicle purchases is economic uncertainty. That is compounded by taxation, with swingeing VED on new vehicle purchases. There are now thousands of pounds a year difference in the cost of benefit in kind tax between battery vehicles and normal cars for business buyers, in addition to the grants for purchase. A few richer people can afford an electric car to parade their green virtue on shorter trips. In my local town they make an ostentatious display in the half dozen free recharge parking spaces outside Waitrose: more green subsidies provided to the already rich by our Council. The playing field is already heavily tilted, and yet the convenience, reliability in use, and extra load capacity (because of not having so much taken up by batteries) of conventional vehicles make them the superior option for most.

    Engine fuel economy has improved dramatically over the decades, and so has pollution control, with our towns having much cleaner air than any time back to the Industrial Revolution. The contribution of traffic to what remains of pollution is slight, as was proved by the lockdown. Particulates now come from tyres – still used by EVs, not engines. Now with AdBlue, diesel NOx emissions can be reduced to almost nothing. Yet we are subjected to false propaganda about the supposed effects of pollution on health that us rarely properly questioned by experts such as the late Prof. Anthony Frew, pulmonary specialist.

    If we exclude taxes on fuel, the underlying cost at the pump is less than 3.5p/kWh, which makes it a far cheaper option, even allowing for the efficiency differential of say 3 miles per kWh for an EV compared to a little more that 1 for a family diesel.. EVs will need a mileage tax to make good the shortfall from fuel duty and VAT on the duty, so this is the correct economic comparison.

    By picking EVs the government is betting on technology while ignoring the supply crunch in key materials for battery production, and the extreme vulnerability to its concentration in particular countries and the degree of Chinese control over those resources. They are also ignoring the £200bn bill for recabling the streets and beefing up the transmission network, and the massive investment in extra generation capacity.

    I find no grounds to support the decision. The attempt to make transport unaffordable and unavailable, reducing us back to horses should be opposed. We need politicians who will vote to end this madness. Given the vote in support of net zero, it appears at least half need to be replaced.

  86. alastair harris
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    There are so many ways in which this policy is wrong, but would like to add an additional dimension to what you have described. My utility costs are both electric and gas at the moment, and I have a new gas boiler delivering heating and hot water. It has a 10 year life but my last bolier lasted 20 years, with TLC delivered by British Gas engineers.
    But ignoring the cost of replacing it, My electricity costs are significantly higher than my gas costs, with the increases over the last 5 years being greater, probably driven by the increased cost of sunsidising various “green” initiatives (I won’t use the phrase Mr Cameron used, but itwas apt!). That would include things like the subsidy of rooftop solar panels (quite a few around where I live) and the feed in tariffs, the roll out of smart meters (which on principle I have avoided), the incidence of grants for insulation (I live in a well insulated modern property), the subsidy to wind farms (which seem to be more active than inactive around here) and all the other initiatives which seem to add little value but much cost.
    So a switch to electric (and being reasonable about this, a heat pump will not be practical where I live) will incur the cost of replacing kit, as well as the incremental cost of the source of energy. No one ever seems to factor in the latter!

  87. ChrisS
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    The West seems to be collectively aiming to make its industry uncompetitive and burden its citizens with massive expense and debt. Yet to address climate change, every country needs to follow suit.

    There is no sign that China, South America or anywhere else, for that matter, is going to play ball, certainly not on the ridiculously tight timescales, the West is proposing.

    We have discussed the car issues much more that the domestic energy issues we are now facing. The move away from gas so quickly is a bad move made in haste. Dual fuel gas/hydrogen boilers look to be an expensive, short term fiddle to get round the problem and heat pumps are certainly not the saviour they are made out to be.

    We should be exploring geo-thermal heating. Friends of ours in Sweden have a geo-thermal heating system which I can testify is superb and very cheap to run – the only consumable is a small amount of electricity to operate the pump. To install, it requires only two 150mm bore holes which in Sweden cost about £15,000. When I enquired here, I was quoted £45,000 !

    Perhaps geo-thermal heating is something our host could investigate with the relevant government department ?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

      Yes I agree. If we are to have anything it must be geothermal heat. But there is no profit in that so the ~corporatists font like it.

  88. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    The only thing I want to change just now is the Prime Minister. The short and long term damage he is doing is totally unacceptable. For the country and your party’s sake you and colleagues must act very soon – it is already too late for some who have died prematurely or lost their livelihoods as a direct result of his actions.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

      +1

  89. L Jones
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    ”The US under Mr Biden”…. ah, that old chestnut. And what about ”the US under Mr Trump”? Something a little more optimistic, I think.

  90. JohnE
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    When the gas mains are switched over to supply 100% hydrogen instead of methane there will be no option but to change boilers if you want to keep burning a gas. The old boilers will have to be disabled for safety. There might or might not be a transition period where some hydrogen is injected in to the mix. Bear that in mind before rushing out to buy new methane gas boilers. There will come a point when you have no methane to burn.
    A hydrogen fuel cell that can produce both heat and power would be my preferred option and more efficient. I don’t know why that isn’t even under consideration – perhaps the policy was written to suit Worcester Bosch and Dimplex as only they have any working prototypes of hydrogen gas powered domestic boilers.

    And obviously there isn’t a remotely feasible plan to do any of this in the arbritrary sucked out of thin air timescales. So no individual consumers can make their decisions with any real knowledge of the consequences. But then no-one in politics has ever actually delivered anything themselves.

  91. lojolondon
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    No, I will not support any of these ludicrous ideas.

    I believe there is no such thing as “global warming”, but I believe the earth is warming by 1 degree per century as we exit the medieval ice age.
    I believe that Carbon Dioxide cannot warm the earth. I know that CO2 released by man is around 4% of global CO2, and that Britain releases about 3.5% of that figure,meaning that we are responsible for about 0.0016% of CO2 in the atmosphere.
    Therefore, I believe that of all the things we are proposing, not one will make the slightest possible difference to CO2 or to the temperature, except that we are wasting money on inefficient power generation instead of best-in-class.
    I was disappointed when Labour suggested such illogical actions as they did, doubly disappointed that a “conservative” government is doing the same and even more.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

      +1 it’s madness. Literally.

  92. anon
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    No i am delaying any new car purchase or new boiler purchase until needed.

    On exit from EU zero rate vat on electrical heating solutions.

    Encourage policies which ensure surplus energy supply is directed to domestic hot water stores at wholesale market costs or estimate set each month say 3p kwh.

    Allow existing gas & other fuels where it is not practical to move to electricty, but mandate dual functionality to enable a fuel switch when advantageous. Eg so any internal water stores can utilise any surplus energy produced by renewables.

    Transport- aim to improve air quality and city living. All city taxis, delivery vehicles, buses should be mandated to electrical power on replacement. (Zero rate them as needed)

    All personally owned vehicles with low mileage useage should be exempted from city pollution charges. Out of urban area cars must be subject to pollution charges in urban areas.

    Scrappage incentive payments should be made payable direct from HMG to owners, with no compulsion to purchase a new car.

    Zero tailpipe emission vehicles should be zero-rated, but face a road-fund licence tax based on RRP.

    Start mandating the jet-spraying & cleaning away of the ingrained pollution on pavements and walls & pollution barriers near roads and plant more trees to mitigate the pollution in hotspots.

  93. Mike Wilson
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    I’ve just installed a new gas combi boiler. To have anything else other than a gas combi boiler will involve us in having to have a hot water storage tank. I rather like only heating the water I use. Our gas use seems pretty low to me and, of course, the new boiler is very efficient. I have topped up the insulation in the loft (against my better judgement but I don’t expect to live long enough to see if the roof timbers are affected by being moist and cold for years at a time. I have recently refurbished the property we live in. I did investigate electric underfloor heating – but it was ludicrously expensive to run and only really provides background heating. If someone wants to pay me to put in an air source heat pump – and the associated infrastructure – fine, I’ll have one. But, I’m getting old. You’ll have to not only pay, you’ll have to do the work too.

    As for my car. I intend to hold on to my 40 mpg petrol engined Toyota Avensis estate until it is no longer practical to run it. At which point – certainly at some point before the madness of 2030 – I will buy an efficient hybrid. Almost certainly another Toyota as they have made 8 million hybrid vehicles to date and seem to be pretty good at it.

  94. forthurst
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    What do politicians believe? Firstly, to flood us with unassimilable aliens in order to enrich us because according to the neo-ethnology they apparently studied, the least desirable race is Northern European which needs to be replaced.
    Then, these same politicians who also studied neo-biology, legislate to allow the removal of genital organs and their replacement with hormones secreted by members of the opposite sex in order to treat a disease, “gender dysphoria”.
    Now these same clever politicians who also studied neo-thermodynamics, tell us that using heat to power the economy is destroying the planet and in future we must use only sun, wind and air as primary energy sources. Is the Oxford neo-science tripos even more deadly to human civilisation than the Politics tripos (PPE)?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

      The damage that the political class have done in short order is mind boggling, we need a ‘reset’ to put thing back to the way God intended. Seems we can also safely exclude the Monarchy (Charles), the Honours system and the House of Lords. A everyone has the chance to bring honour to their own names, Enoch Powell did not need a moniker, actually neither does JR.
      All duplicate legislatures must go, we need minimum state sector and they must be fireable!

  95. Original Chris
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    I think this tweet that I saw is very apt for our situation in the UK with the current government’s removal of our powers and rights, with ever more nonsensical regulations.

    “We are being conditioned to believe that our freedom is no longer a right.

    It is merely a reward to be earned by obediently adhering to the latest non-sensical government regulations.”

  96. Martin C
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    The premise that manmade carbon dioxide is the cause of global warming has been superseded by a better understanding of solar forcing and the earth’s electrical connection with the sun. Climate change is now thought to be caused by these forces and the weakening magnetosphere due to the poles migrating and possibly flipping. Astronomers are also witnessing disturbing changes taking place on stars nearest to the sun and it has been deduced that a galactic wave is about to pass through our solar system – which we can do nothing about.

    It is understandable that we should question whether climate change is our fault, but it is as well to remember there are forces greater than ourselves out there and our survival depends on understanding them and taking appropriate and timely precautions.

    Electric and hydrogen powered cars, heat pumps and all electrical systems may not be the answer after all . . . but then, are answers being sought, or money and kudos?

  97. David
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    My worst fears have been realised as Boris has gone green. Its good to see on this blog that there are some who can see through this false religion but we need a voice in parliament.

  98. agricola
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    From all the noises off it appears that many outside the actual Brexit negotiation are creating pressure points to penetrate our red lines. One such is that we the EU will not buy fish caught by UK boats if we the EU cannot continue with a lions share of the fish in UK sovereign waters. If such threats emerge in the actual negotiation I would accept that they mean it. I would then talk to those great fish lovers the Japanese. Ten hours in refrigerated containers by air, Aberdeen, Leeds/Bradford, Stanstead to Tokyo and Osaka. I suspect that there would be little cheap fish to sell to the EU. It is not something I would wish to do to our EU neighbours, but if their representatives persist, so be it.

    • Andy
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

      I suspect that, in reality, all there would actually be is lots of unsellable dead fish in British fishing ports – and many more out of work British fishermen. Sorry, fisher people.

      There is zero chance you’ll ever sell anything other than small quantities to Japan.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

        But then you are a fool and always wrong, so a relief that you take this view, it guarantees a vibrant fishing industry.

      • agricola
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

        So demonstrating that you know little about Japan, one of the greatest fish loving countries in the World.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

          but among the worst over-fishing fleets in the world.

      • IanT
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

        And of course, the price of fish will increase in Europe – which I am sure many European consumers will not really appreciate…and eventually they will either accept our fish or have to pay a premium for fish from elsewhere.

        Always two ways to look at things Andy.

      • anon
        Posted November 21, 2020 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

        If fish were embargoed by the EU. Then we would under WTO rules be entitled to levy equivalent value tarriffs on other products. So that would be self defeating. I would aim at high value imports which can easily be replaced by UK production.

        The continued negotiation of trade deals with others will enable the correct response to be calibrated.

  99. Pat
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Sadly there is a large number of people who believe that we can abandon fossil fuels and maintain our standard of living at the same time. Probably because the alleged virtues of “carbon neutrality” are pushed all the time, the difficulties are never mentioned , and who doesn’t want to appear virtuous?
    In reality we depend on cheap reliable energy for our standard of living and at present fossil fuels are the cheapest and most reliable for most applications.
    Unless a new source of energy is discovered – certainly possible but don’t bet your life on it- de-carbonisation will lead to poverty, and a loss of power for those nations pursuing it. Bearing in mind the nature of the Chinese regime which is emphatically not going this way, I think it unwise to cede them power.
    Once it becomes apparent that de-carbonisation brings expensive everything along with unreliable power a serious attempt will be made to question the necessity of even usefulness of the policy.
    Hopefully problems, such as power cuts, will start to happen sooner rather than later, because the sooner the rationale starts to be questioned the sooner we can return to sensible policy.

  100. Liz N
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    The “Build Back Better” slogan that Boris, the SNP, Justin Trudeau and all good globalists world wide are now consistently throwing at us is straight from the World Economic Forum website.
    This is a serious question – what happened to Boris? What do “they” have on him that he is spouting all this globalist climate change garbage at every opportunity? It’s embarrassing in it’s lack of real substance and anyone with an ounce of common sense knows we are really stuffed if future governments try to implement this childish fantasy. Boris has been such a disappointment even though we knew we were taking a chance on him. It seems as if the leavers are being targeted within the government at the moment which can’t be just a coincidence and I still can’t quite believe that Boris acknowledged Biden for President even though the US election is being questioned for fraud and the results are not legally known yet. Seriously, the MP for Wokingham and others of a similar outlook need to think about getting themselves another party. The betrayal just keeps on coming even though you think it can’t get any worse. Oh wait, there’s still a last minute faux Brexit trade deal to look forward to.

  101. DavidJ
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Will I change? Absolutely not!

    All this unnecessary disruption because of flawed “science”, manipulated data (Gore) and a government too ready to be influenced by the “Greens”.

    In any case this is not about what it seems to be; it is a barely disguised attempt to have us ruled by an unaccountable “elite” and abolish freedom.

    Thankfully I have somewhere else to go (for now).

  102. John Downes
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    The mad scientists who gave us the global warming scare stories are the antecedents of the other mad scientists to whom the government is in thrall over the Covid scare. None of them should be believed, and the political response to this nonsense by politicans on both sides is a disgrace.

  103. Ian
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    I will never vote for anyone who is in this Parliament, I will vote for a new party only if they are committed to get rid of the Lords and get rid of the all Remainers in the Commons

  104. Peter A
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Sounds like a great business opportunity for black market gas boilers after the ban. Didn’t they ban incandescent light bulbs some years back? They are still on sale!

    • Fred H
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

      Quite a lot of boilers get incandescent on this blog.

  105. Henry Neild
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    John – all this is great but what is upsetting people is not just the cost of boilers and EV’s but the fact that they are not truly green at all. Let alone all this jazz, including solar panels and wind turbines, playing into China’s hands.

    Take the boilers. Daikin heat pumps are made by a Japanese company in China. The units cost 4 times more than a oil boiler to install and they fail to generate enough heat regardless of insulation on homes. I heard someone say that they spent £2,000 in electricity for a single quarter (£4,500 annual bill). God knows what it would have been if they’d been charging a car everyday.

    Solar panels invariably come from China. China controls 99% of the supply rare metals used in batteries for EVs.

    There are 35 million cars registered on U.k roads, 200,000 of which are pure EVs. In 9years these will all be effectively worthless and our electricity grid will need to cope with 2 million EVs joining the grid every year. Add in the houses forced to heat with inefficient heat pumps and we are going to be in serious trouble when wind turbines are producing enough electricity.

    Etc. etc.

    Best wishes

    Henry.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

      +1

  106. Graham Wheatley
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Oh dear oh dear.

    This is all completely unrealistic and unworkable. The cost both to the Government and the individual will be excessive and neither can afford it.

    The UK (…..correct me if I’m wrong) now has a national debt above £2.4 trillion and rising. The Govt had recently announced it had committed to buy an initial 200 million 15-minute Covid quick-tests at £5 each = another £billion.
    We have 350 million doses of various vaccines on order at anything from between £3~£28 per dose – call it an average of £10 and that equals another £3.5 billion. Three trillion pounds by the end of 2021 then? https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

    Plus of course, the cost of furlough during Lockdowns-1 and 2, and the loss of VAT receipts, income tax from job losses and corporation tax from businesses going to the wall, together with the state benefits that will have to be paid for those unfortunates.

    And we are granting more money (that we haven’t got) to an RAF Space Weapons programme, an effort to make our navy (regain it’s former position as..) the best in the world, road building programmes and HS2 (I mean, … HS2? really?!) when we are likely to see an ever greater number of people working from home.

    An extra-terrestrial visitor to this planet might be forgiven for thinking that our entire species had developed a terminal brain illness! Perhaps that’s one of the as-yet unrecognised side effects of SARS-COVID-2? Boris et al do seem to be suffering from something. I’m inclined to think that Boris should now go, but my only fear in that is a power-grab by Matt Hancock. And I really do not think we would like life in GB under a dictator such as he.

    Sir John, perhaps we can all call on you to push the government to instruct S.A.G.E. to revisit Neil Ferguson’s original modelling, have him publish his original datasets and have the whole sorry mess re-evaluated. If a peer-review of Ferguson’s results cannot be replicated within the limits of the normal scientific error-bars, then his data and recommendations should be scrapped.

    The longer this goes on, the harder it will be for errors to be corrected. We should attempt to verify the original data and the actions taken based thereon, ASAP.

    And can we please have some input from organisations other than Imperial CollegeLondon and University College London? There are equal, if not bigger, brains out there that have something useful to contribute – we should make use of them!

    Oh, and can we please see the formula by which S.A.G.E et al are ‘calculating’ the ‘R’-number? That really should be in the public domain so that there is some scrutiny of the claims that are being made about infection levels.

    And we need to stop calling them ‘cases’ if they do not require medical intervention.

    Regards,
    GW.

  107. DaveK
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Sir John,

    To prevent us descending into a disastrous technocracy, we must introduce a red/blue science system. The one sided wormtongues currently in place will lead us to bloodshed and death. I replaced by boiler as ordered/manipulated recently at great cost. I am hoping to buy my first new car when I retire in 5 years to give comfort and confidence it’ll last for the remainder of our driving time. I got on my bike for work and consequently my nearest relative lives 187 miles away. Something you overlooked is we also cook with gas. So you can possibly imagine my thoughts on this topic. I should point out that I have been interested in this topic since stumbling on a website called surfacestationsdotorg in 2008, run by an American meteorologist who was concerned about the results of the data and the location of the weather stations in the USA.

  108. Lee Taylor
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    I have some experience of working with Hydrogen. The company I worked for had a Flame Ionisation Detector fitted. This used Hydrogen as a fuel gas. They employed a couple of “gas safe” “engineers” who had no experience of working with Hydrogen. They fitted a standard gas shut off valve for methane. Every day when we came into the lab our gas detector alarm would go off indicating excessive levels of hydrogen.

    Eventually they had to buy a stainless steel valve made especially for the task at a substantial cost. The idea that whole towns can be switched to use Hydrogen in place of natural gas is frankly potty. The entire gas network including boilers and all internal pipe work would have to be ripped out.

    The idea of using small Rolls Royce nuclear reactors on the other hand is eminently sensible.

    • anon
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

      Hydrogen is but one storage mechanism. It can be blended with natural gas or used in production of CH4. It can be used to produce ammonia or others.
      Other technologies are proving much cheaper and getting cheaper than the operating cost of nuclear and even gas.
      So ‘private’ long term capital wont fund nuclear without massive subsidies. The other risks and decom costs are always understated.

      Renewables are simple in concept, inherently safer, and cheaper at utility scale.
      So when does community or mutual scale solar/wind storage come to the UK?
      Invest and get energy as dividends? No point parking money in the bank.

  109. Paul Cuthbertson
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    BIDEN is NOT the President of the USA and never will be.
    Boris need s to wake up.

    • Andy
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

      Unless he drops dead between now and midday on January 20th 2021 – Joe Biden will be president. Biden won the popular vote by 6 million – and counting – and he has an unassailable lead in the electoral college.

      I appreciate the ranting Oompa Loompa likes to whine a lot but the fact is that he lost big time – and his failed presidency is all but over. Sad face.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

        President Harris will enjoy that lead.

      • Paul Cuthbertson
        Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

        Biden will NEVER be president. Nothing can stop what is coming. NOTHING.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 21, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

          nonsense

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • bill brown
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 11:11 am | Permalink

      Paul Cuthabertson and Lynn Atkinson,

      Wkae up to reality and live with it

  110. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Nope.

    I replaced my boiler 2 years ago with a top of the range BW. I saw spending money on an efficient boiler as being are more cost effective than getting solar panels. And I’m not replacing my cars either. I bought them both at 5 years old and will run them for at least 12.

    Andy prefers to blow money on a brand new electric car with all the flashy extras that he didn’t need… well… he has the money and the private drive to put it on and doesn’t really give a hoot about the environment otherwise he’d have down shifted his life entirely.

    No wonder he doesn’t understand why people voted for Brexit – much less that people like him caused it.

  111. Freeborn John
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    We need to use up gas from the North Sea before making people replace their boilers. Otherwise the oil companies will go back to burning it off as flares from North Sea oil rigs and there will be no reduction in carbon output.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

      Brilliant point.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 10:40 am | Permalink

      OOO that’s interesting FJ.

  112. acorn
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    I am looking forward to know how Boris is going to convert 26 million Natural Gas (NG) domestic boilers to Hydrogen (H2). Hydrogen is a totally different animal to Natural Gas (which is mostly Methane). H2 contains a third of the energy per M3 of Natural Gas, and burns in a significantly different way to NG. Be prepared to get screwed by a Tory government and its global oil and gas corporate sponsors.

    • Edward2
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

      I thought the idea was to replace all gas boilers with electric ones.
      And outside heat pumps.
      Not that this any easier a problem to solve.

  113. M Davis
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    I say no to the Smart Meter and I will say no to the Heat pumps or all electric. They will have to enforce me and they will have an old woman to deal with. Will they put an old woman in Jail? You can bet your life on it! I will resist until the last! They are Socialist control freaks of the highest order!

  114. Qubus
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Off topic, but topical

    Alex Allen resigns, apparently he’s 69. Isn’t it time he went?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

      Some civil service dope on the radio said he had been left “no choice” but to resign as he had been over ruled by a higher court (Boris or perhaps Queen Carrie).

      Clearly it follows that all judges should resign if they are ever overruled by the appeal court or the supreme court – surely they have “no choice”. So they would all have to go.

  115. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Why is the UK Government being so hard on its own people whilst doing nothing to curb the global warming caused by the burning of raw coal at power stations by other nations? China, USA, India, Germany and Poland are major culprits. Because of their transgressions, their energy costs are less than ours, making their industries more competitive.

    The other big scourge of our age is the amount of single use plastic flowing down major rivers and into the sea. India is a particularly bad offender, although we must also put our own house in order. Let us not export our plastic waste to Turkey, where it is dumped, but instead set about the mammoth task of getting our supermarkets to modify their packaging. Building more incinerators is not the best solution.

    We mustn’t be surprised at the reduction in car purchases, which are ‘big ticket’ items. Our response to COVID-19 has made many of us hard up.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 10:38 am | Permalink

      Precisely Lindsey. Your first paragraph is spot on.

      Why isn’t every New build and upgraded Chinese/Indian factory powered by solar, and windmill? If they start mass producing them the costs will come down for every Country – thats what usually happens isn’t it?

      We should find a way to recycle all plastic waste to provide new energy in the UK. Can it be done safely and efficiently out at sea like the oil rigs?

  116. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Instead of telling us how to heat our homes, shouldn’t the Government be promoting the construction of thermally efficient houses and the demolition of houses that leak heat?

  117. Dave
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Three words

    JUST
    SAY
    NO

  118. glen cullen
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    We don’t believe you

    WE DON’T TRUST YOU

  119. ChrisS
    Posted November 20, 2020 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    Our modern Condensing boiler is only three years old and I would hope it lasts at least 15 years, although generally boilers now last less than half the life of older models. Why ?

    We also have a four-oven gas Aga which we only use between October and April which we would never part with.

    I would not plan to switch to a heat pump as they are of dubious effectiveness and, because of the far lower temperature of the circulating water, they require much bigger radiators and work better with larger diameter water pipes. These would be inconvenient, difficult and expensive to install. We are far more likely to install a modern enclosed wood burner to supplement the heating.

    As for the cars, I plan to run on my 50 year old MGC Roadster, Ferrari and modern Audi A7 indefinitely. I won’t be buying an electric car, unless heavy depreciation makes a Porsche Taycan an irresistible bargain. ( it probably won’t ).

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 21, 2020 at 10:34 am | Permalink

      We changed our boiler after 15 years because we were told it was getting harder to get parts for that model to keep it maintained and it was more likely to fail because of its age and it would put our heating and hot water at risk for longer periods. I would recommend that if you are going to do it go with British Gas because they will do it for a fixed price and sort out réinstallation problems and were just a super service.

  120. GilesB
    Posted November 21, 2020 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    Out of 225 comments, only five are in favour

  121. Peter D Gardner
    Posted November 21, 2020 at 1:08 am | Permalink

    Another argument against buying electric or installing electric heating is that their future value is entirely dependent on government subsidies and control of the market. They could also be quickly rendered obsolete by newer technology. So the political risk and techniligicsl risks to such a large capital expense are enormous. No thank you.

  122. ferdi
    Posted November 21, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    The whole green agenda is like the Mad Hatter’s tea party

  123. XY
    Posted November 21, 2020 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    P.S. I’m actually considering changing our cars for one small simple petrol car or no car at all.

    I suspect that in future we’d get a gas boiler installed at the last possible second so we could keep it running for years then get a petrol car that we can get spares for and service most of it ourselves for years to come. Pre-1999 might be an option since it pre-dates the complex engines of this century.

    Electric cars have no appeal for me at current state of battery technology – or lack of technology. A hybrid is another possibility – once you run out of electrical power, there needs to be a viable way to keep going. And without paying someone’s electricity prices (the initial price at charging points was around £1 equivalent per gallon of petrol, as soon as the government restrictions of price were lifted, it shot up to £7.

  124. Jasper
    Posted November 21, 2020 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    NO is my answer unless the replacement product is as cost effective if not cheaper than what I pay now!! I am all for change and improving quality of life but I really am not sure climate change is real. When I read the pro articles and the arguments against, it just seems to me to be a money making scam.

  125. Arborvitae
    Posted November 22, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    These initiatives will mean even greater fuel and transport poverty in rural areas. They will become the preserve of the wealthy.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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