Vaccines change the situation

Many governments, health services and the world health bodies have always wanted a vaccine to be the eventual way out of the pandemic. Yesterday they got much nearer to that outcome, with the announcement of the formal recognition of the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer BioN Tech vaccine by the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, and the roll out of the Sputnik V vaccine as an approved treatment in Russia.

Dr June Raine, the CEO of the MHRA, was keen to tell UK residents that “the public’s safety has always been at the forefront of our minds – safety is our watchword.” She assured her audience that they had not taken any short cuts and had pored over much data before concluding the product meets both their safety and their efficacy standards.

The Pfizer vaccine uses a relatively new technique, mRNA, to trigger immune responses should the virus attack. So too does the Moderna product, which may soon follow with a permission. The Astra Zeneca Oxford University vaccine may be third to get approval, and uses a Replication deficient viral vector. They needed to supply more information on their tests given the different doses actually deployed with different results.

I always point out this site does not give medical advice, as I am not qualified. Individuals thinking of accepting a vaccination need to make their own decisions based on the information provided by the companies supplying the product and the NHS, and may take their own doctor’s advice if they have concerns.

If enough people volunteer for the vaccination, as seems likely given the strong encouragement from the NHS and from the government’s own medical experts, it will be easier to secure a removal of controls over our lives.

There should be no question of people having to take the vaccine, nor of vaccine passports being used as a lever to get more people to take the vaccine. The vaccine should stand on it own merits. The more information the Regulators can share with the public the better, as confidence comes from an open approach, not from hectoring and limited communication of the facts.

First use of the first vaccine is likely to be in hospitals who have the specialist equipment to store the vaccine. There will be guidance about who has priority to receive it.

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270 Comments

  1. Ian Wragg
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    Vaccine is passports, the ultimate control to of a rogue government.
    I see yesterday was a good day to bury bad news.
    Boris has given away 40% of our fish, the day before agreeing to remain in the ECHR.
    Just the level playing field and ECJ governance to capitulate on and it’s game over.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:26 am | Permalink

      Makes you sick doesn’t it.

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:50 am | Permalink


        Dr Mike Yeadon: ‘Stong evidence’ of Covid herd immunity in the UK

        Talking to Julia Hartly Brewer on Talk RADIO YOU TUBE

        Dr Mike Yeadon, a former chief scientific adviser with Pfizer, has claimed there is “strong evidence” that the UK has developed some herd immunity against coronavirus.

        Speaking with talkRADIO’s Julia Hartley-Brewer, the lockdown sceptic said it was shown by the “lack” of Covid deaths happening in London.

        “It was about 200-250 a day seven months ago. I checked three days ago, it was nine – so about 90-95% lower”.

        Dr Yeadon also voiced concerns over the mass roll out of the newly approved Pfizer and BioNTech jab, because it was “too early” to know its the long term safety or effectiveness.

        However, he did say that he was “pro-vaccine” and “not an anti-vaxxer”.

    • Nigl
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:34 am | Permalink

      Indeed on the EU front. Just waiting to see how they spin their craven submission.

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

        Risk Assessment On The New COVID-19 Vaccine
        Godfrey Bloom on you tube

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

      Stop whingeing.

      You were never asked about ECHR adherence and clearly do not have the legal insights to make you a proper person to consult anyway.

      • Roy Grainger
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:22 am | Permalink

        Stop whingeing ? Isn’t that what you’ve been doing since 2016 ?

      • ukretired123
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

        Mic Take your own advice and stop whinging fgs!

      • agricola
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

        And you are of course?

      • Fred H
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:01 am | Permalink

        oh dear others picking up your whingeing contributions.

      • Alan Paul Joyce
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:20 am | Permalink

        Dear Mr. Redwood,

        @Martin in Cardiff who is, of course, an expert in just about everything.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

        Then why have the vote ?

        • No Longer Anonymous
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

          When you have our own legals/luvvies keeping murderers and rapists in Britain using legal activism how did you expect an enfranchised population to react ???

      • NickC
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

        Martin, How about you stopping whingeing instead?

        Nor do you have the legal insights to make you a proper person to consult anyway. Moreover I do not like your tendency to technocratic authoritarianism so I consider myself perfectly qualified to make the commonsense judgement that the ECHR has become corrupted by too close an association to the EU.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

        Well Tony Blair thought they should have their powers curtailed and he exempted himself from being arraigned in their court. Do you think that the ex-PM, a Barrister, has enough legal insight to make a judgement? Or do you think he is not ‘fit to be consulted’?

    • Andy
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      Don’t worry old chap. Apparently you knew what you were voting for.

      So let me remind you:
      – Higher prices
      – Masses more bureaucracy
      – Lorry parks. Lots of them.
      – Hundreds of millions of new forms
      – Masses of pointless paperwork just to go on holiday
      – Fewer opportunities for your kids and grandkids
      – Harder to deport dinghy people

      On the plus side your tampons will be cheaper.

      If you are angry now – and you mostly still are – then I am going to massively enjoy the next year of watching you all explode with rage as the penny finally drops that you’ve been had. Some of you really are rather slow. But still.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

        Nothing will stop them from being angry – when one imaginary grievance is exploded they simply invent another out of thin air.

        Incidentally, your prediction of a few weeks back that Biden would win the popular vote by over seven million has proven to be remarkably accurate.

        • Edward2
          Posted December 4, 2020 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

          Strike me it is you remain lefties who are angry.

          PS
          The popular vote in American presidential elections is irrelevant.
          It is collegiate votes that get a candidate into the White House

          • APL
            Posted December 5, 2020 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

            The United States of America has never been a democracy. It is a constitutional republic.

            The great tragedy of the USA is that the ‘Democrats’ are not democratic, and the Republicans are too craven to defend the Republic.

      • czerwonadupa
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

        Freedom trumps everything. Ask the Indians & Africans.
        And as for being angry unlike the Irish the British haven’t started shooting people.

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      +1

    • BJC
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      Of course, it should be remembered that the ECJ has decided NOT to be bound by the rulings of the ECHR, so you have to wonder why the EU has been so insistent on our adherence (indirect control?) and what makes Mr Johnson think it’s such a good idea. I despair.

      • BJC
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:27 am | Permalink

        p.s. might Art 7 of the ECHR, “the right not to be punished for something that wasn’t against the law at the time”, be applied to nearly 50 years of lawful fishing in our waters, the removal of which could easily be interpreted as a punishment by the EU? Just a thought.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

          You have misunderstood.

    • ian@Barkham
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

      The important part is not the fish as such but who manages and controls UK territory.
      The ECHR is a joke, only despot regimes grant rights. Rights that in a Free Democracy are never taken away in the first place. Is our HoC and its MP’s so bankrupt that they need to be dictated on what is fair and reasonable (although now I have said that!) and why did anyone think they had a right to prevent the things the ECHR want to give back. That being the main thing, giving back to society something that a any ruler had the right to take from them in the first place. A Perverted Law that is defined by everything being illegal unless your ruler gives permission for it.

      The Authority of Government the laws and rules it prescribes are just leant to it by the people. It is the people that get to choose what is right on wrong through the ballot box. In that sense the ECHR seeks to undermined democracy and a countries freedom

      • DavidJ
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 6:55 am | Permalink

        +1

    • turboterrier
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

      Will he and his negotiators resign for reneging on what he stood for?

      Will he dick. Just a chance promoted outwith his level of incompetence.

      He has to go. Too many are now seeing the talk is just that talk.

    • turboterrier
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      Chance should read chancer

      • turboterrier
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

        To make sense Sir John could you please print the original comment.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      At PMQs the ‘opposition’ didn’t rise the topic of EU negotiations not once

    • Peter
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:39 am | Permalink

      Mandatory vaccination should definitely be ruled out. I am also very worried about various levers and encouragements to get people to accept vaccination. The craftiness of those in charge knows no limits.

      I also note further concessions on fish by the government. We seem to be well on our way to BRINO.

      • NickC
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

        Peter, Mandatory vaccinations should be ruled out, as you say. But more, the government does not “give” us rights (something Martin and Andy should learn) we have these rights inalienably. The rights of not being under house arrest, to free association, and to travel freely, within the UK, are not in the gift of the government.

        • DavidJ
          Posted December 4, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

          +1

    • beresford
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:45 am | Permalink

      The EU were always going to have some access to our fisheries, this is normal for independent coastal states. What is bizarre is why Boris is asking the EU rather than the other way round, our negotiators just can’t seem to break the habit of supplicancy. As for the ECHR, this is the Establishment fig leaf for not controlling immigration or deporting foreign miscreants, and they would be loathe to lose it.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

      “Mr Barnier said the UK had signalled that it could accept 60 per cent of the value of stocks from British seas from January 1, down from the 80 per cent London had originally called for.” – telegraph

    • John Hatfield
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

      Ian, reported in the DE scandal sheet today,
      “British officials rubbished claims by Mr Barnier in a separate briefing to MEPs that Downing Street had watered down its fishing demands.”
      Not sure that we are making any ‘fishing demands’ but you it would seem that the 40% story is incorrect.

    • DavidJ
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 6:53 am | Permalink

      Boris, as many expected, has let us down. Whether this was the plan all along remains to be seen, but given the antics of previous PMs to submit us to EU control, it seems likely.

      We need a serious rethink on how we are governed both by elected “representatives” and civil servants. A necessary step too is the restoration of a robust Treason and Sedition Law to deal with those who prefer to serve foreign powers.

  2. Nigl
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    Yes count me in. Hopefully herd immunity will build up over the longer term and the virus weakens as I believe we are already seeing. After all it wants to survive and won’t do that if it kills all its hosts.

    Let’s hope it doesn’t mutate outside the scope if the vaccines. Maybe they can be adjusted as well.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

      Herd Immunity was the only thing that stopped the 1918 flu which lasted two years – and that was without any medical drugs or treatment or PPE

  3. Stephen J
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    Whether these “vaccines” work well or not is I would conjecture, a moot point.

    I suspect that most of the folk that take it, will be doing so to cure the effects of the “madness of king Boris” rather than any confection associated with Covid-19.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:02 am | Permalink

      Oh but…
      What about the next virus? And the next……

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

        Yes this must be a concern. Scientists are saying this won’t be the last pandemic so how many vaccines could we potentially have to take? Will these vaccines be safe when administered together?

      • Fred H
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:02 am | Permalink

        I am not allowed ethically and lawfully to recommend your course of action.

      • bigneil(newercomp)
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:23 am | Permalink

        They are already being developed. Govts got the people hooked on cigarettes – and made £millions in tax revenue. A vaccine, along with top-up after top-up which will be “necessary” for continued “freedom” to move and shop etc is the next step.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

      Stephen

      I sincerely hope the vaccines work, and with little long term side effects, otherwise the Government will have killed off the NHS in one stroke, as without nurses, doctors and all of the other staff, it will cease to function or even exist.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

        Good. It has already ceased to function.

  4. Mick
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Game changer
    Off topic
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9011775/Labour-lawyers-luvvies-block-bid-deport-rapists.html
    Why do we advertise these flights just keep it under raps so these human rights lawyers don’t get a whiff of it, I for one don’t want these criminals in my country and I bet that if the lawyers were charged the court costs if they lost wouldn’t be so keen to represent them, and for god sake these labour and celebrity luvvies comparing these criminals to the Windrush scandal give it a break

    • DavidJ
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      +!

  5. Stred
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    There vaccines would normally still be in the experimental stage. There are no long term trials. The authorities are lying if they claim that they have been cleared for use by accelerating all of the normal procedures. The American vaccines are a new type which have possible side effects already known and published by others. The British vaccine has varied results and has not been tested on the vulnerable sectors of the population.

    What is the point of vaccinating the young or those who have already been exposed to infection?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      Indeed. Let us hope the vaccines are very safe and do not net harm.

    • Bill B.
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      Simple, Stred: Because it’s profitable.

      The state is paying for it and most people won’t need it. What’s not to like, if you’re a Big Pharma CEO?

      When the vaccine was trialled, the question was not whether it controlled transmission to others, only whether it prevented the person vaccinated from being infected.

    • cornishstu
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:21 am | Permalink

      Pretty much my take on it, unless they have a time machine to look at the long term effects they do not know. Or maybe they have had Ferguson model it for them, so all will work out well then.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

        Perhaps they got those climate “experts” who predicted 2.1 degree C increase in Temp in 80 years to do the soothsaying for them!

    • DavidJ
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 7:03 am | Permalink

      They are still in the experimental stage. Experienced and qualified people have stated that 5 + years is needed to develop and test a new vaccine. So the general public are being used as lab rats.

  6. Mark B
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    Leaving aside my scepticism about the miracle cure, I believe only those at high risk and those wishing to take it should be the first in the clue. There should be no form of cohersion either by the State or organisations. We should be free to decide the risk to ourselves and what goes into our bodies.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:24 am | Permalink

      PS Whilst they are at it, have they found the cure for the common cold and cancer ? I ask as they have been trying for years but no luck. But a virus know for just over a year seems to have a vaccine. 😉

      /sarc

      • Everhopeful
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

        AND a coronavirus at that!

      • Lifelogic
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

        Progress on cancer has been very encouraging indeed recently and with new gene technology, computers, AI, keyhole surgery and many other new developments are coming more and more quickly. This as new technology accellerates the development of even newer technology exponentially. Many treatments are very effective indeed. Colds are rarely a serious problem anyway.

        A shame so much of the NHS cancer and many other departments have often been shut down recently, this is cearly failing and killing some people. Progess on heart and circulatory diseases rather impressive too.

        We can save far, far more quality years of life than have been lost through Covid by just by:- not smoking, not drinking to much, not eating too much, moving rather more and not getting too fat.

        Non of this costs anything at all (indeed a negative cost) and rarely even needs any medical intervention or advice. Indeed it protects the NHS hugely. If people had to pay for healthcare (if they can afford to do so) they would do rather more of this.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:05 am | Permalink

        Mark at least 100 forms of what we call cancer exist – so no single ‘vaccine’ cure will ever work. Research into chemo is achieving reasonable success for many of the forms. Give the scientists some leeway and sympathy with the challenges.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

          Fred at least a 100 forms of coronavirus….

          • Fred H
            Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

            yes at least and well known for years- but hardly any have posed any meaningful threat.
            UNTIL – the bat-lady’s Lab just happened to be close to the outbreak of Covid. The Chinese on realising what might have happened locked up medical people, who conveniently all died, and locked down the enormous city.
            Audit trail – what audit trail?

      • Everhopeful
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        RNA vaccines are valued for the speed with which they can be developed and because they are cheap to make ( no eggs or mammal cells needed).
        They also offer some hope for cancer treatment.
        And we, mes amis, are in one big Petri dish.
        Having been nudge, nudge, nudged through fear, masks and incarceration into agreeing to never ending viruses and vaccination.
        Hail..fellow guinea pigs/lab rats🐁

    • Simeon
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:48 am | Permalink

      Quite right.

      Depends how you define coercion. A quasi-lockdown is set to continue into next Spring. Any energetic persuasion on the part of government is likely to be largely under the radar in the sense that it won’t touch the vast majority of people. Come Spring we should know more about what government intends.

      • 666
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:45 am | Permalink

        Come Spring we should know more about what government intends.

        ….
        I will tell you now.
        Quantum dot bar code tattoos and no buying or selling if you refuse.

        • Ian Wragg
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

          I still think it will be yellow stars on the sleeve for those who don’t get the jab.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

      It’s not a cure.

      It’s a prevention.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

        Is it?

  7. Simeon
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Your first sentence says alot. “… always wanted a vaccine…” etc. For those with a healthy distrust of state power, what the state desires is always suspect, and usually detrimental to the interests of the cirizenry.

    Otherwise, little to disagree with here, and your abstaining from giving direction on whether to vaccincate or not is welcome. You are surely right to say that there will be plenty of demand for the vaccine. People love a freebie, which this treatment essentially is having already been bought and paid for.

    I sincerely hope that the vaccine remains non-mandatory, but this is hope rather than expectation. One thing to observe though, and this is that the prospect of those who refuse the vaccine being shamed by those that accept it is surely inevitable. Any setback of any kind related to the virus can and, I’m sure will, be blamed on us refuseniks. I shall be readying my tin hat – and yes, it is definitely tin, not aluminium…

    • Simeon
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:40 am | Permalink

      PS Again, my initial submission to yesterday’s entry is held up. Your prerogative as always. I would just say that my prediction of your successful currying of favour with your constituency here by voting against was correct. I will not rehash my reasons for believing simply voting against the government are futile as they are already known.

      • BJC
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

        Simeon: I sincerely hope Sir John has a far more interesting life than one that finds him grafted to his computer 24/7 waiting for the next submission to his diary! I’m simply grateful to have the opportunity to vent and accept that, sometimes, my views will be too strident or critical of his colleagues to be published. Of course, it doesn’t mean that I’ve not been heard, which is surely the purpose of our comments?

        • Simeon
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

          I wasn’t complaining…

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:11 am | Permalink

        When you disagree you have to vote against. You say it’s futile, but that’s how Mrs Thatcher came to power – 1 too many voted against the Govt and it fell!
        JR tends not to curry favour, that’s why he is on the back benches.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

          There was real value in rebellious voting in the previous hung Parliament. It at least opened the window to the possibility of a proper Brexit. In this Parliament, the number required to make a meaningful difference is far higher, but the numbers aren’t there, and so voting against achieves nothing.

          Until there is a majority for change in Parliament, we are stuck with the present disastrous policy. This was the exact same rationale for dissolving the previous Parliament and seeking a mandate for Brexit – a move Sir John warmly commended. Only a general election can achieve this – though I accept there is not as yet a credible alternative.

          Sir John, together with other MPs, is in a position to do something about this – though there is no reason to believe he and they are willing to do this. The rebels accept in principle the policy of trying to control the virus. They just disagree as to the extent of these controls. In short, this policy, which some of us recognise to be prodoundly damaging to the national interest, is not important enough for Sir John and the rebels to resign over. Some might suggest they are putting party before country.

          • dixie
            Posted December 4, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

            @Simeon – you are also in a position to do something about this, but have clearly chosen not to do so as there is not yet a credible alternative.

            So what exactly are you doing about it, apart from shooting off condescending remarks?

    • DavidJ
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      +1

  8. Sea_Warrior
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Yes, vaccines do change the situation. So why is the government announcing that it will go ahead with a further undermining of the A-level system – with higher grades promised and students given a good steer as to what will be in the increasingly pointless exams? Why is the government rewarding lazy teachers and lazy students? If students are incapable of independent study they will struggle – or striggle, even – at university.
    P.S. Flu jab on Saturday. I’ll hold off having the vaccine for three months.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

      Sea warrior. I totally understand why you want to wait but if we do that will we be put to the back of the queue and be the last to receive it?

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

        Quite possibly. The only thing likely to make me an ‘early adopter’ was the prospect of my annual ski-trip, to Austria, or long-haul trips to the sun. It seems, however, that holiday destinations are yet to react to yesterday’s news on the UK’s approval of the Pfizer jab. For now, I’ll make do with washing-up, masking-up and distancing-up.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

      If people were dropping dead as they do in a real pandemic people would be rushing for this vaccine- not ‘holding off’.

      I’m not saying you are wrong, SW. Just pointing out how relaxed people are in this so called crisis.

      In a real one people are begging for vaccines.

      Were it not for masks I would have almost forgotten we are in a crisis. Apart from mild flu symptoms I know of no-one who has got ill.

    • formula57
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      @ Sea_Warrior ” Why is the government rewarding lazy teachers and lazy students?” – so they do not complain and make the Government look worse.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      Some will struggle, no doubt. Some may even striggle. Let us all pray that none will streggle. That would be unthinkable.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:13 am | Permalink

      Don’t worry, they won’t struggle at University – the path will be smoothed and we will produce an extraordinary number of innumerate people to work in the Treasury.
      Never had a flu jab or any other sort!

      • Ian Wragg
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

        A plethora of PPE graduates to infest the civil Serpents

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

          Or ‘women’s studies’.

        • Mike Durrans
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

          +1

      • steve
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 2:40 am | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        “we will produce an extraordinary number of innumerate people”

        =========

        And we will see them on TV now and then, demonstrating their exemplary achievements with language and phonetics.

        e.g.

        ‘ yeah it was kinda like um like you know, and I was like, you know and he was like’

  9. Lifelogic
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    Boris confirmed yesterday that they will vaccinate men and women above 80 then above a lower age and so on. So men (who have up to double the change of dying or having serious illness from Covid) will clearly be very seriously discriminated against. Assuming the vaccine is safe enough and works this priority order will clearly kill far people than adjusting the ages by gender risk. It will also put far more pressure on the NHS. So why have the expert scientists not pointed this out to ministers? Or if they have done why are ministers apparently happy for these extra people to die? Why not follow the obvious logic and save lives and protect the NHS?

    Extremely worrying indeed is the call by Starmer and Boris to censor free speech on the very real risks of this and other vaccines and probably into other areas such as climate realists. The idea that the government should decide what is true and allowed to be said or published is absolutely appalling.

    The biggest pusher of false news on climate alarmism, energy system and the war on CO2 is surely the BBC and Government organisations. Electric car are not zero emission Mr Grant Shapps for example. They do not even save CO2 really.

    • ian@Barkham
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      +1

      Coercive Control, demonstrates the lack of respect our Rulers have for the people and why they fear the people so much. Logic says we need a revolution to put ‘some’ of these idiots and their thinking back in the box.

    • turboterrier
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      Lifelogic
      Pusher of false news..

      It is not just our government it’s all governments.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

        Indeed.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

        When it’s ‘All governments’ there will be a common denominator. The One World Government currently known as The UN?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

      Another sensible way to adjust the vaccine priority would be to initially target areas that have not yet had the infection badly and are thus far further from herd immunity. Cornwall, Isle of Wight and rural areas ather then the areas that clearly have it badly already. Again no mention of this sensible & life saving route of deployment.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

        Cornwall had millions of visitors between lockdowns. Why is it not badly infected? Herd immunity.

    • ian@Barkham
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

      Reminds me of the Corbyn thought process and that of the left in general. To control society you first have to destroy it, then you get to rebuild it in your own image. I guess that is what meant by ‘build back better’. It cant mean anything else as the only people destroying things in the UK are those that forgot who voted for them, who pays their wages and who leant them the sovereignty.

      I cant condemn all of them as like our Host some arrived in the HoC not as just a job but a calling to serve us better. As always the left infiltrates and perverts from the inside.

      • steve
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 2:29 am | Permalink

        ian@Barkham

        ” As always the left infiltrates and perverts from the inside.”

        ==========

        Indeed ! Though as I understood it was not always the case, and it was Blair who started it.

    • graham1946
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:31 am | Permalink

      Just last week it was shown that an electric car needs to cover 50,000 miles before it is on a level par with internal combustion engines regarding CO2. I did hear last year that a certain German car maker had calculated that it would be 80,00 miles for its products, but that news soon disappeared.
      Starmer and Johnson seem to be intent on regulating free speech even in our own homes, having outlawed it in public – that is truly frightening and the slippery slope to complete authoritarianism would be just about complete. What happened to Johnson’s supposed libertarianism? He seems to have been captured by the creatures in Downing Street, like all weak PM’s are.

    • The Great Reset
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:41 am | Permalink

      What is the point of vaccinating the young or those who have already been exposed to infection?


      it bemuses me, didn’t they ever read books like 1984?

    • DavidJ
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 7:06 am | Permalink

      +1

  10. matthu
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    Have the vaccine trials tested whether vaccinated people can still be infected – rather than whether they develop symptoms? We already know hat most people will be asymptomatic but that hasn’t stopped the government and media using fear of passing on the infection to govern the people. So I am not reassured.

    • davews
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:26 am | Permalink

      I understand that it is not an objective of the trials to determine whether an infected person can pass the virus on, or maybe even if they are immune of catching it. This is important – if pubs etc are going to refuse non-vaccinated people they have to realise that even those coul still infect others in the premises making the whole passport stuff a nonsense. Also not impressed at the haste this has been rushed through.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

      All the evidence suggest that people who have had it will almost certainly be at least as well protected as people who have had the vaccine. Why else do infections decline in areas that have been badly infected.

      Given them the vaccinces seems very foolish and a waste to me.

    • beresford
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

      That is how vaccines work. You become infected and your body recognises the virus and produces antibodies to repel it before a serious case can develop. I understand a feature of this virus is that transmission is highest in the early stages of infection, before symptoms emerge. If a significant proportion are vaccinated you would expect the strains which transmit earlier to dominate.

  11. Mary M.
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    ‘There should be no question of people having to take the vaccine, nor of vaccine passports being used as a lever to get more people to take the vaccine. The vaccine should stand on it own merits.’

    Definitely. Though I do wonder if care home residents will have absolute freedom to choose whether or not to have this hastily approved vaccine.

    Will care home managers allow the unvaccinated visits from loved ones, or indeed to mix with residents who have agreed to be vaccinated?

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      My sister is a care home worker and is concerned that if she refuses the vaccine she will be sacked.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

        Pursue compensation for unfair dismissal, take the money and find employment with someone more ethical.

      • Ian Wragg
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

        Yes, I know someone working as an auxiliary in the NHS and he’s also worried.

      • anon
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

        Difficult, but you surely protection of vulnerable must figure in the calculation, as well as the individual.
        A no-fault compensation scheme should be set up for those injured by the NHS. This being separate from professional and management standards based investigations and determinations.

    • BW
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:42 am | Permalink

      Without doubt, although I hate the word there will be discrimination between those that have and those that have not. Not to be nasty, but it obvious in the hospitality industry alone that preference will be given to those that can prove they have.
      That’s why I believe those that have will have access to a very expensive certificate to prove they have which will also be voluntary.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

        Let’s hope that enough vaccinated people are on their feet to support the hospitality industry then.
        They may have no choice but to serve unvaccinated people if they are the only ones walking.

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

      It is to be noticed that once again we have the use of the word ‘should’. Clearly Sir John doesn’t think strongly enough to use the word ‘must’. Always gives himself a way out and disappoints those who are looking for reliable and inspiring leadershio.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

        There is a stark difference between inspiring and strong leadership and dictatorial command. Boris dow not know the difference, JR does and thinks we are adults and with the facts, can make the best decision for ourselves.

  12. DOM
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    There is no trust, only hate and contempt for the British political class and the British State’s exploitation of a clinical event to expand its powers and take away our voice and expose us to Marxist barbarity

    • Everhopeful
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      +1

    • peace
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:02 am | Permalink

      Contempt, disgust, anger fine.
      Hate not good for personal growth.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:46 am | Permalink

      +++

  13. Iain gill
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    I see people in the very long queue for NHS operations are being told their operations will be cancelled if they do not get vaccinated first. Failing health system imposing it’s will on the people in completely unacceptable ways again.

    • Andy
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

      If you have Covid you are putting the lives of the doctors and nurses you expect to treat you at risk. Why should they risk their lives for you? Of course it is entirely reasonable for them to expect to be safe at work. They still spend all day getting abused by ungrateful old farts.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

        Andy as usual you are spouting out complete rubbish. I’ve unfortunately had to attend A&E for myself and with my husband and both times I was disgusted with the way young people who were either drunk or on drugs were disrupting the waiting area, abusing the staff and other patients, using foul language and needing security staff to take control. The ‘old farts’ as you call them had yo endure this behaviour while waiting patiently for treatment. Stop being so obnoxious.

    • beresford
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      Though you can see an argument for such people at least being given a test for covid resistance. Hospitals are a great place to catch diseases, they’re full of sick people, and after a major op your exposure is likely to be prolonged.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:45 am | Permalink

      I don’t like it but I can understand maybe patients having to have a test before an operation but vaccine NO

    • Fred H
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      evidence please – I have not seen it?

      • Paul Cuthbertson
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 1:16 am | Permalink

        There is none and there never has been evidence of covid. However the MSM have done a beautiful job and fooled the majority. Beware of the vaccine.

    • bigneil(newercomp)
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      I bet the ambulance crews waiting at Dover for the replacements to arrive don’t inject them as soon as they are “priority seen”. Always taxpayer funded staff/equipment available for them.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:46 am | Permalink

      +++

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:16 am | Permalink

      That’s coercion! Boris also threatened ‘more lockdown’ unless we had the jab. That’s coercion!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

      Indeed compulsory vaccination in all but name and at this point they really do not indeed cannot know for sure that the vaccine will do more good than harm. Nor will they pay compensation if people have adverse reactions.

      Never pay for anything up front if you can possible avoid it. Particularly if it is the State who are going to deliver (or not deliver it). Chances are very high you will be defrauded or at least short changed. Moving goal posts is a government speciality.

  14. Lifelogic
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    Well let us hope that is it safe enough so that it does no do more harm than good. Dr June Raine, the CEO of the MHRA sounded to me as if she was addressing dim primary school children with her silly climbing a mountain analogy. I note she did not assure people that the MHRA were certain that the vaccine will do more harm than good and anyone who does suffer from a vaccine jab will be compensated. They clearly cannot know this and will not do this. The vaccine may have to be given to as many as 10,000 people to save each Covid death so it need to be very, very safe.

    Giving the vaccine to people who have already had it seem idiotic to me and a waste of the vaccine. Not adjusting for gender and other high risk groups also idiotic. If they cannot even get this right it is hard to have much confidence in these “experts”.

    Many areas have herd immunity already already anyway.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:32 am | Permalink

      No one seems to even ask her on the above points.

      Questions such as:- what percentage of people receiving the vaccine do they estimate will have serious reactions to it? Will compensation be paid to them? Why are they wasting vaccine on people who have already had it? Are they certain the vaccine will do more harm than good for most people give we have herd immunity levels in many areas already? Why is the priority list for the vaccine wrong in not adjusting for gender and other risk factors?

    • Sharon
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:49 am | Permalink

      Exactly! A number of ‘other’ virologists and medics believe the virus would have fizzled out by itself by April and with the first Sars, probably wouldn’t reappear.

      These comments on this blog are confirming the continuation of state control over the people.

    • Andy
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      She was. She was talking to climate change denying, Covid rejecting, Trump supporting, anti-vaxxers. Or, as I call them, Brexiteers.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

        Does anyone deny that the climate changes? Always has always will.

        • Mike Durrans
          Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

          Yes but Man will never change it, just nature

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      If you can get the virus more than once, and this seems possible if not likely, herd immunity is an illusion. From what I’ve read it appears we may have to be vaccinated regularly. If that is true then there is no such thing as herd immunity against this particular virus.

      • Zorro
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

        What actual evidence of reinfection is there? I have heard of a handful of cases if that out of the many millions who will have been exposed to this coronavirus.

        Zorro

      • matthu
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

        From what I’ve read it appears we may have to be vaccinated regularly. If that is true then there is no such thing as herd immunity against this particular virus.????

        Vaccinations assume that your immunity comes from having anti-bodies present. What happens if your immunity comes from T-cells?

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:47 am | Permalink

      +++

    • graham1946
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      Regarding compensation for ill effects, I am sure I heard at the start of this research that due to the rush, vaccine producers are excused liablility for this product. A govt. website says if you are severely disabled by a vaccine the govt will pay £120,000.00 under the heading ‘Coronavirus (COVID19) Guidance and support’. However, I don’t see Coronavirus mentioned as one they will pay out for in their list of vaccines covered. They specifically exclude influenza virus caused by pandemic. I am not qualified to know if Coronavirus is regarded as influenza.

    • Zorro
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

      You’re assuming that they understand cost/benefit analysis or relative risk. The evidence from the last 9 months does not fill me with confidence with the ridiculous lack of proportion in dealing with it, and the huge of money on relative life years saved. The data collection and analysis has also been dire and missed the point. If people want the vaccine it’s up to them, but there had better not be any discrimination in service/treatment of people henceforth when going about their business. The elderly/vulnerable may want to take it but there is no earthly reason for fit individuals to do so – just keep taking vitamin supplements, eat well, exercise, watch your weight, love and smile should do the trick.

      Zorro

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

      Dr Mike Yeadon is surely exactly right on JHB talk radio and Conservative Woman – Strong evidence of herd immunity in the UK – He is well worth listening too on the benefits or otherwise of the vaccine.

      Neither he nor I are anti- vaccines in general but clearly we need to be sure we are not doing more harm than good with them. Vaccinating people who have had it (as so many have done) seems particularly idiotic to me. As does doing it for Men and Women at the same age when their risks differ so greatly. Scientifically illiterate and it will kill many people.

      Clearly in many areas such as London we are clearly past herd immunity without any vaccine. It may be needed for some vulnerable people, some areas and for people in specific jobs or groups.

  15. BW
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    I was hoping to be provided with some evidence that I had been given the vaccine. I saw that as a major step towards airlines and countries like Australia allowing me to visit my family there. I am sure they are not going to allow it by you turning up just saying you have had it.

    I fear that there is already a market to buy a certificate of safety to travel, for pregnant women etc. I saw them advertised at my local medical centre for £175. So I expect I will have to buy some for of internationally acceptable certificate, or passport, call it what you want. I expect that to be very expensive.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:26 am | Permalink

      As they don’t know if vaccinated people can still trasmit the virus (they have explicitly said this, it wasn’t an objective of the trials), and they don’t know how long the vaccination will offer protection for (again, not covered by the trials) it would be very stupid for airlines to demand a vaccination certificate rather than a simple recent Covid test result.

    • a-tracy
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      It’s a stated aim to reduce air travel, the working class will be affected and have been with this £150 covid free certificate other Countries have asked for but our Country haven’t.

      Our Country that seems to be the only Country treating everyone and all comers in our NHS free of charge no questions asked, no bills, no travel insurance. Then they whinge they’re not getting enough money. Start charging tourists for all treatments.

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      It need only be a certificate, signed and stamped my a medical professional. It should be free – because it should only take a minute to do. Anyone falsifying certificates should go to prison – for a long time.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

        You can’t put asylum seekers in jail! How xenophobic, heartless, racist, cruel!

    • bigneil(newercomp)
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:08 am | Permalink

      Fake passports already available everywhere – adding a “stamp” isn’t going to make much of a problem for the criminal gangs. Reported that at least 8 terrorists got into Europe through Turkey/Greece using the same passport details. Probably tucked up nive and warm in a British hotel now.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

        +1

    • hefner
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:16 am | Permalink

      I guess there will be no need for such a thing. There has been a WHO International Vaccination Certificate Booklet that has allowed travellers to register all their vaccinations required for various countries, and this since 2007. You will just have to ask your GP or surgery to write down the dates of your injections, put their signature and stamp. And this WHO IVC booklet is free from any travelclinicnearme.co.uk

    • graham1946
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:58 am | Permalink

      Maybe your doctor, who will have records will do you a letter. I have had such a thing in the past for a cost of about 30 quid, but no doubt some racket will develop, even if the government was to simply stamp your passport.

      • Mockbeggar
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

        You get a stamped booklet or certificate for Yellow Fever when you travel to certain countries.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

        A stamp can easily be copied. I’m not sure how they will go about certification but ic it goes that way I’m definitely having it as I want my life back and be free to travel.

    • Mockbeggar
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      I agree. If I were in the hospitality or travel businesses I would like to see evidence that customers or passengers were inoculated once the vaccines become readily available to all.

      • hat man
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

        Then I’m glad you’re not in either of those businesses.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

        Yes and accept them even if they have a temperature of 104 and can’t breathe….
        it like best before dated food. We throw so much good food away and often people who get food poisoning get it because they ate stinky slimy green chicken/fish etc because the best before date was a week away.
        Use your nose and common sense for Gods Sake!

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

      I am not a number… I am a free man

  16. Dave Andrews
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Are we now going to have a daily death toll of those who died within 28 days of having the vaccine? Will we know whether they died of or with the vaccine?

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

      If nearly everyone has the vaccine, that would be pointless.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

        Nearly everyone will definitely not have the vaccine.

      • matthu
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

        Not if you only consider those who are also Covid Positive.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:48 am | Permalink

      ++++

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:18 am | Permalink

      +1 exactly!

  17. Everhopeful
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    So the govt. was scared of having “blood on its hands” and shut down our economy to save us from a virus.
    Yet it followed a course of action that ensured many deaths in care homes.
    It then withdrew all healthcare and imprisoned us in our houses, even using the terminology of prison ..”Lockdown”.
    Now it is champing at the bit to fill us with a very new substance. Taking an undeniable risk with our lives.
    Meanwhile, silently it screws up Brexit.
    I suppose it has heard of the eighth circle of Hell?

  18. Lifelogic
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    The Planet Normal podcast tells us (from an NHS insider) that only 8% of beds in the South East are now occupied by Covid patients. Also that 17-25% of covid patients actually acquire the covid infection while in hospital and are then dishonestly labelled as Covid admissions. An elderly relative of mine who died of it being one such person (after having been admitted for a minor stroke). They then dumped him untested into a care home to infect others.

  19. Andy
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Here’s a prediction for you. Vaccine passports will be necessary for life to return to normal. Why? Because although our government might not insists on it other governments might, and so too might private companies. For example, some airlines may tell you that you cannot fly with them unless you can prove you have had a vaccine.

    The reality is that this virus has devastated businesses so much none of them are going to want to take any chances.

    It seems really rather likely that having done so well with COVID this time – unlike the U.K. – New Zealand will take measures, like a vaccine passport, to keep it out. Perhaps Australia too. They are both really careful with diseases from the rest of the world anyway.

    I wonder if the EU will require it too? We can add a vaccine passport to the ever growing list of Tory Brexit bureaucratic we need just to go on holiday. Soon we’ll need an extra case just for their paperwork.

    • dixie
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

      You claim that NZ will take measures, like a vaccine passport as will the EU then you claim it will be a consequence of Brexit!

      You are going doolally, check your temperature as you may have Covid with brexit-derangement-syndrome complications.

    • Edward2
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      One stamp in your passport or more likely a credit card sized NHS card in your wallet read electronically is hardly “an extra case just for their paperwork”

  20. Lifelogic
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    A study of Covid Predictions by Yale says Imperial’s Covid predictions had errors about five times higher than all the other predictions they looked as. Was this why the government chose to use these?

  21. Nivek
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    I believe that the latest total for “deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate”, for the whole of the United Kingdom, is almost 70,000. On 5th October, Matt Hancock tweeted that “Our strategy is to suppress the virus…until we get a vaccine”. The tweet is accompanied by a picture of himself with a subtitle that reads, “I am a great believer in people being free to act so long as they don’t harm others”.

    According to figures published by Mr. Hancock’s own Dept. of Health, in the first six months of this year, in England and Wales, almost 110,000 pregnancies were terminated.

  22. Sakara Gold
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    I would want to see much larger and longer trials of any proposed Chinese plague virus vaccine before I even contemplated taking it. In any case I caught the Chinese plague virus – probably in my gym – late last year. And apparently, having had what is described as “mild” symptoms, (at the time I was told I had “viral pneumonia complications of seasonal flu” even though I had the flu vaccination) I have made a good recovery.

    So does the government propose to vaccinate the approx 1.5m people here who have also caught it and recovered? If so, I would ask why?

    Governments the world over have offered pharmaceutical companies indemnity should their emergency vaccines have long-term unwanted side effects. The pharmaceutical companies operate in order to make money; they are rubbing their hands in glee at the indemnity and over 200 vaccines are in preparation. Including the mRNA vaccines which have never been used before, one of which the government proposes to commence vaccinating us with starting next week.

    The “Health” Secretary, PHE, the NHS and their totally inefective Test and Trace Scheme have managed to kill about 75,000 people so far. The government has a vested economic interest in ending the epidemic in the UK. In the rush to market a vaccine, in spite of assurances to the contrary, many shortcuts have been taken. Who knows what side effects these new vaccines will have five years down the line? Caution is warranted.

  23. Lester Cynic Beedell
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    A vaccine for a disease with a 99% recovery rate, very hastily developed with practically no testing?

    There’s now talk of recruiting “Celebrities” to endorse the vaccine, probably saline anyway…..
    what happens if there are horrific side effects 6 months later, you cannot be un- vaccinated!

    Meanwhile the economy is a smoking ruin with more jobs lost every day.

    Thanks but No thanks, I’ll take my chances with the virus and as I predicted my MP voted for the lockdown…. sorry I meant the Tier system …

    • Fred H
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

      ‘A vaccine for a disease with a 99% recovery rate, very hastily developed with practically no testing?’
      As Clint said ‘ask yourself do I feel lucky, punk?’

    • steve
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 2:16 am | Permalink

      Lester

      Agree with you. Personally I’ll refuse this particular vaccine, and wait it out for the Oxford one.

  24. Andy
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Yesterday a number of Conservative MPs including Health Secretary Matt Hancock, health minister Nadine Dorries, Leader of the House Jake Mogg and Michael Fabricant falsely claimed that Brexit had allowed the UK to approve the Pfizer vaccine more quickly. Their claim is entirely false. But we know falsehoods is all they have.

    And both the US and EU regulator have criticised the speed of the UK’s decision – saying it will not help because it reduces trust in the vaccinations. But we know the approval was rushed because of Brexit. It really is as simple as that. What a staggering coincidence that we approve a vaccine which needs to be imported from Belgium four weeks before we make it harder to import things from Belgium. They’ve taken the political calculation that it will cause them less political damage if some people die from the vaccine than it will if many can’t get it because the lorries are caught in Brexit traffic jams.

    And, yes. I know the regulator is ‘independent’. But when an ‘independent’ body relies on government for its funding and its existence it is never really completely independent is it. After all we have seen this government’s contempt for independent organisations like the courts, civil service and BBC.

    • Edward2
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

      It is just the speed where one individual nation can complete the testing process much faster compared to the EU where 27 nations have to agree and sign off the product.
      America isn’t able to alter the very lengthy system of testing new medicines and vaccines.

      You complain about the daily death tolls yet tell us you want to wait many weeks or even months whilst systems designed for non emergency situations are followed to the letter.

    • dixie
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      How is it false, what is your evidence?

  25. Caterpillar
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    One more time:

    Before making a personal decision the Govt needs to issue infection fatality ratios vs age, gender and underlying conditions and, for each vaccine, at least sample size, side effects and efficacy for each age and gender group with or without underlying conditions.

    To make this point a little more obvious;

    NHS England data records 19 people with no underlying conditions in the 0-19 age group dying of Covid. There are approx 14 million in the UK in this age group, estimating that 10% have contracted the disease gives 1 in 70,000 healthy infant and teen IFR (why this isn’t called FIR I don’t know). A similar calculation for no underlying conditions age 20-39 gives 1 in 7000. (These risks are possibly high estimates as infections might be nearer 30% and treatment protocols have improved). Given that the Pfizer total sample size is about 40,000 of which some had a placebo, it is impossible in the lowest age group and possibly doubtful in the next lowest that the samples are large enough to compare risk from vaccine with risk from disease.

    I am not saying that the vaccine is not safe, I am not saying it is not suitable for higher age groups or vulnerable groups, or those working with vulnerable groups, but if Govt is not able to issue such simple data (with methodology for estimating the IFRs) then I do not see that a young healthy person or guardian can make an informed choice.

    The Govt has an opportunity here to improve on its recent performance and present transparent data. I would encourage the Govt to produce the above data, if it does not I think it is quite telling (about the Govt not the vaccines).

  26. AndyC
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    The vaccine is good news. I, like many others here, bristle at the idea of being let out of my cage to be injected like a battery hen. But if that gets us out of this catastrophic policy error (not health crisis, there’s never been one), then so be it. I do have faith in the UK regulator, they know what they are doing.

    The question that now needs asking is this. At what reduced level of infection will the government scrap all the daft regulation and restore our civil liberties? It was implicit in the PM’s press conference yesterday that widespread vaccination will not lead to any change; that will only be triggered by lower infection rates. Given that JVT correctly said this disease will never be eradicated, at what precise level of injection will the government act? They must have a figure in mind, and if they don’t should be strongly encouraged to think about it. Sadly I think we’re in for many months more of this.

  27. a-tracy
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    Are the government going to go the whole hog on vaccine day and weight and measure everyone, do a blood pressure test and a urine sample or even a blood test? If they don’t take the full information how will they know the factors for any failure?

  28. Chris Dark
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Shaming people who don’t take the vaccine is pointless, because if the vaccine truly works then what are they worried about? It’s pure nastiness. I won’t be taking any vaccine. I have read many reports on them now and have concluded that they are not sufficiently trialled and tested to be regarded as “safe”. At 65 I still have some life left and I don’t intend spending it with auto-immune disease or some other vaccine-induced disability.
    I read that the vaccine companies and people administering the jabs will be immune from claims, in the event of adverse reactions. Not exactly confidence-building, is it? Under normal circumstances I’m in favour of health protection and properly prepared vaccines, but not this time. I’ll wait and see what happens to others first.

  29. Newmania
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    If Sir John Redwood restricted his opining to those areas in which he is qualified to give advice there would be nothing much to read. I certainly don`t apply that sort of rigour to my own comments ..lets stop the pontificating shall we.
    We do not allow people to use bring Tiddles and Rover into the country without proof they have been vaccinated against Rabies . Anyone who endangered other people`s animals in such a way , would rightly be regarded as unbelievably irresponsible even were it not illegal .
    Why on earth would John Redwood feel that to endanger other people in so despicable a way should be matter of choice .It should be a matter of law and at the very least work places and venues should enforce their own code. The stakes could not be higher ,the Government cannot be allowed to fail us yet again with its schoolboy Libertarian quibbles .
    Get it done !

    • Edward2
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

      I don’t know why you continue to stay on here if this first sentence is your belief Newmania.

  30. a-tracy
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    We the public don’t know who is being treated in hospitals but the authorities do. We don’t know which communities; hospital treatment ages and whether people are male/female but the authorities do.

    It shouldn’t take a rocket scientist to work out which neighbourhoods, or persons at risk to vaccinate first should they wish to take it to reduce their odds.

  31. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Of course, I will be having the vaccine. I will do it to get us out of lockdown as soon as possible.

    I do not want to hear from the likes of Andy any whingeing about the vaccine being unsafe.

    If this were a real pandemic they would be begging, elbowing and bribing for these shots – not being sniffy about the rushed production of them.

    And that says all we need to know about this ‘crisis’.

    In a real pandemic people don’t get picky and choosy. In a real pandemic I don’t have a guy arguing with me in a restaurant-now-takeaway (as happened at the weekend) that his mask stops the virus even though he didn’t have a clue as to its manufacturing standard or even if it had one.

    If that guy was serious about this being a pandemic (in which everyone who gets infected drops dead) then he wouldn’t be out getting a take-away.

    We have all been had. The ‘experts’ messed up on care homes (on which I am on record here – from the outset, as ‘Anonymous’ – as saying should have been our first priority) which could have so easily have been shielded so here we are, having to cover their arses by going through these motions.

    Let’s get on with it then.

    But I predict that we won’t be out of economically damaging social distancing until early 2022. Way to late to save our economy – as it is we’ll have been in lockdown of some sort for well over a year. A mistake more lethal than the virus ever was.

    Things are never going to be the same again. We are going to realise soon that the country we knew is gone and powers outside of this country and within it know how to control us now.

    Well done the vaccine scientists though. One of the few redeeming features in this sorry episode.

  32. JohnE
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    I’ll be first in the queue as soon as I’m offered a vaccine. What is your position Sir John?

    Our whole way of life is dependant on vaccination to combat many naturally occurring illnesses and those who spread unfounded fears are not our friends.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

      And I’ll be 651st in that queue right behind all our MPs

    • Sharon
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

      On Talk Radio today, a chap of 73 called to say he was undergoing the trials for the Pfizer vaccine. However, he has since learned that it’s not known whether it will prevent you getting Covid, but it’s more likely to just reduce symptoms, and it’s not known whether you can pass it on.

      He concluded that he was wondering what is the point of it then?

      • Sharon
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

        Ps why is my 7.37 am post still in moderation? And others time stamped later have gone through?

        “Was it something I said?”

  33. Arthur Wrightiss
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    There should be no coercion to have the vaccine but I will choose to have it. At 74 I’m happy to give it a go. Nobody is coerced into smoking even though they waste thousands of pounds a year for an excellent chance of dying early from cancer. It’s personal choice, but having the vaccine is for the greater good.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

      Indeed if people want to go skiing, horse riding, cycling in busy cities, racing in Formua One or sky diving it is surely up them them. So long as it does not harm others.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

        nor expect the public taxes to pay for their medical treatment. Insure yourself for risky sport.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted December 5, 2020 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

          +1

    • Mark B
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

      And I for one respect YOUR decision. I just wish people would respect those who do not want it.

  34. None of the Above
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    An earlier contribution on this blog suggested that Dr Raine sounded like she was addressing dim primary school children. I agree but I am not surprised if she felt the need to do this, after all one must establish the level of the class before teaching it. Judging by the lack of intellect demonstrated by some on these pages I would say that she pitched it about right.

    Who said that the PM has given away 30% of our fish? Please provide evidence for this unfounded accusation.
    The ECHR is not, repeat not part of the EU. If anyone feels that there is a problem remaining signed up to the ECHR (and we only have an EU spokespersons word on this) they should realise that any problems that we experience on the approach of the Courts to Human Rights issues is not due to the ECHR. It is to do with a very vague Human Rights Act introduced by Tony Blair whose ultimate aim was to invite the Law Courts to make decisions that should by made by an elected Parliament.
    That is why I believe that The Human Rights Act should be repealed and replaced by a simple ‘Bill of Rights’ which contains provisions that Parliament can chose on behalf of the people that elected them. To see our laws concerning the deportation of illegal immigrants convicted of serious crimes being overturned by unelected judges at the behest of activist lawyers is embarrassing beyond belief.

  35. agricola
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    I do hope that the Sputnik V never finds it’s way to the UK. Russia never having accepted responsibility for anything done in it’s name. Mind you on reflection the UK government has never really accepted responsibility for contaminated blood from American convicts or thalidomide, so are little more reliable. I also hope that there is no slackening in the impetus to approve the Astra Zeneca Vaccine. It is much cheaper and much easier to transport. When you consider third world needs it is a much more practical product.

    Whether you like it or not, evidence of vaccination will be a key factor in getting the UK operating normally again. Spain already demands evidence of a negative Covid 19 test result within 72 hours of a departure to that country. How long before other countries follow. vaccination certificates are not new for those old enough to remember. A health visa stamped in a passport, after a course of vaccination should be an even better boost to the hospitality industry and international travel. The cost of a Covid 19 test on top of a holiday cost will do nothing to revive the airline industry. Using a vaccination visa/certificate to get more people to have the vaccination is a red herring and symptomatic of a “Little Englander” attitude. Using it to regenerate the hospitality and travel industry is basic common sense. discuss it with Michael O’Leary.

    • agricola
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

      So you don’t like what I have to say

  36. Jack Falstaff
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    We have already been exposed to dangerously high levels of exposure to MSM thought control.

    Such is their rabid zeal though, that I believe it is only a question of time before they attempt to physically inject us with their dogma by whatever means.

    And you think I’m joking…

  37. Alan Jutson
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    I guess you either trust the regulatory body and take the vaccine, or you do not and don’t.

    Think the take up will be much greater for those who feel they are at greater risk, than those who feel they are not.

    You have already paid the money, so now you take the choice.

  38. William Long
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    I cannot understand the reluctance to insist on documentary evidence, so called ‘Passports’ of innocculation against Covid-19. Surely any sensible country is going to want such evidence before allowing anybody on its shores without a quarantine period and the same could well become true between differnt parts of the UK.
    If people who do not want tobbe innocculated feel ‘Preesurised’ that is just something they should be capable of living with.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      Maybe the countries are not convinced that the vaccine is immunity. Maybe that’s why any documentation is irrelevant😏

  39. glen cullen
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    I may take the vaccine under 2 conditions

    Its a British Made vaccine

    and

    All the Cabinet members take it first live on TV

    • Fred H
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

      oops it is Belgian made, and no chance… Don’t fancy your survival much!

      • glen cullen
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

        I’ll survival alright, living in a tent in a pub car park, with the druids in Anglesey

  40. Pat
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Since the panic is doing far more harm than the virus, a vaccine for those most frightened should be extremely useful.
    Provided it is safe enough.
    The effectiveness is secondary as we are practically at herd immunity anyway.

    • cock up theory
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

      Since the panic is doing far more harm than the virus, a vaccine for those most frightened should be extremely useful.


      create the problem, sell the solution.

  41. bigneil(newercomp)
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    I got onto a chat with a man yesterday. The topic soon became the vaccine. I told him that it was NOT going to be injected into me, where he took a sneery tone of voice and raised his nose. He said “Well I’ll be there as soon as possible for mine. There is only one way to go when a simple decision is either – VACCINE OR DIE – Intelligent people can see the choice is simple”.

  42. Know-Dice
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    I disagree with your assessment 🙁

    “There should be no question of people having to take the vaccine, nor of vaccine passports being used as a lever to get more people to take the vaccine”

    I think external market forces will make the carrying of some form of proof that you have been vaccinated against COVID-19 will become a practical necessity…time will tell 🙁

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

      First they came for those that weren’t vaccinated, nobody did anything…..than they came for me, and still nobody did anything…

  43. Bryan Harris
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    There are still far too many unanswered questions about these vaccines to blindly accept them as the way out of lockdown.

    All we get is propaganda.

    I also have no faith in the statement that: “There should be no question of people having to take the vaccine, nor of vaccine passports “ The government has already shown that it will enforce things their way, and will override our rights at the drop of a hat.

    The other things that are being ignored relate to the effectiveness of the vaccines and the ending of lockdown.
    Various people have already said that even with a vaccine lockdown (THE NEW NORMAL) will continue…
    Additionally, professional analysts tell us that the good effect of vaccines against the virus are limited and will cure nothing. Those that have the vaccine will not be totally safe, but will suffer less harm.

    {JR – I expect you will be inclined to delete this comment as it goes against what the propagandists are telling us… But FGS go and check out these things – I’m not making them up}

  44. Fred H
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    I’m shocked at the rush this morning to read so many deniers. Shame on you!
    I’ll be there, sleeve rolled up soon as allowed.

  45. Iain Gill
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    I am hearing parts of London have power cuts…

    • Fred H
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

      well Winnersh had sets of traffic lights go out last evening – – – -not related of course.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

      The next “emergency”?

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

      We could re-activate a coal fired power station like they did in France last week

  46. Everhopeful
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Have we extricated ourselves from whatever red tape is making the EU cautious re the vaccine?
    That must be a first!

  47. rb
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    Does the vaccine contain monkey DNA or aborted human cells?
    Why am I far more scared of the govt and its vaccine, than Covid?
    Why does it seem obligatory for MPs to feign delight?
    Are we to be the worlds guinea pig nation?

  48. Original Chris
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    This is what people fear, Sir John: this tweet by one David James Cross:

    “Breaking: it is as we predicted and feared. My old friend afflicted with cancer has been told that he cannot have his long promised operation unless he has been vaccinated”.

    Also, vaccine companies have fought successfully to have liability regarding adverse reactions removed from them to government, and one reason re Covid vaccine apparently was that “four years down the line, we do not want to be held responsible for adverse reactions”.

  49. GeorgeP
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    Wales’s Labour government have said that Welsh people will get a vaccination certificate/card when they are vaccinated. It’s surely a small step to then demand that people carry these cards at all times and that they have to be shown or scanned before entry to any public venue is allowed. Will the Welsh police be given powers to stop people and demand to be shown zer papers!

    • steve
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

      George P

      “Will the Welsh police be given powers to stop people and demand to be shown zer papers! ”

      ============

      Very dangerous territory.

      No Englishman should have to show his papers in his own country, likewise for the Welsh.

      We fought a world war to stop that kind of shyte,,,,,we will not tolerate such abuse.

  50. RichardP
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Thank you for your comments with which I agree.
    I would add that there should be no attempt to prohibit reasonable discussion. There is concern in the scientific community that legitimate debate about vaccines could be censored.
    As you say we need open discussion because otherwise people will think the Government has something to hide.

  51. Clive
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Good morning Sir John and all .
    My fear is the vaccine will be used to raise massive revenues for HMRC .
    I am sure the elderly and the NHS will be vaccinated in a timely manner for free.
    However the young, in fact anybody who wants to travel , go to a football match , etc etc , will have to show proof they have been vaccinated . Pay and display is just around the corner .

  52. rb
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Pfizer given protection from legal action over coronavirus vaccine by UK government

    • Mark
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

      The time to consider inoculation is when Pfizer accept liability.

  53. ian
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Why should English people have to have their taxes put? up for money that they now owe to themselves though gov QE, if you lent them money to themselves, there is need for them to pay any money to pay themselves off unless interest rates go negative and have to pay interest to the BOE instead of the BOE paying interest to them on the bonds.
    You started this ridiculous money lending thing so you better get it right and not charge people more taxes for something that is only make-believe.

  54. rb
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    I certainly would not be submitting a willing arm for the satisfaction of those excitedly trying to complete the first stage of an action plan before rolling out the next stage to a largely unsuspecting public. This next stage I suspect will introduce us to the next vaccine in the anti-Coronavirus series and yearly thereafter.

    We were originally told laboratories would take years and years to produce and properly test an effective antidote and yet they are now falling over themselves to bring to the market bottles of the stuff

    • gregory martin
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

      Indeed. It takes around eight years, based on past performance, to evolve and test a safe vaccine. Can we therefore assume that the project was started in 2012?…..

      • Fred H
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

        Well if you want to wait another 7 years before you consider your vaccination, I won’t lose sleep over it.

  55. A.Sedgwick
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    My understanding is the Oxford/Astra vaccine is based as flu on dead virus and the others live. Recently a university professor on Talkradio was extolling the safety of vaccines because they were dead. I have refused shingles vaccine because that is live, and the nurse offering me it some years back volunteered this in a way that said don’t take it. The other concern is -70C what happens if it gets warmer?

    As to having a choice I am sceptical but with current info I would go for Oxford and not Pfizer.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      Long term storage is -70C. Once put in normal refrigeration it is said to last up to 5 days. Once opened and allowed to reach room temperature it ought to be used within a few hours. No refreezing.

  56. Jazz
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    For me the issue is one of trust. After so many months of SAGE pushing blatant untruths with the data to get an outcome that they want. The total disregard of other scientists conclusions, means that I no longer trust many of our elected politicians.

    Let them, the quangos and all their children have the vaccination first.

    Vaccines have been a wonderful tool in protecting us from many, many diseases. I distrust greatly the current elite.

    Let’s see what happens over Brexit. We need to get the return of our fish, borders, money and laws as promised

    • DavidJ
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

      Let Boris have it first followed by Ministers and the Civil Service with rigorous independent proof that they are being given the real vaccine.

  57. rb
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    No testing was done on the older population or people with pre existing conditions which is shocking really.

  58. Nigel
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    I see that there has been an unexpected reduction in the number of people dying of dementia. Could this be as a result of many dementia deaths have being classified as COVID deaths? Surely not!

    • Fred H
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

      Got it in one.

  59. Richard II
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    ‘There should be no question of people having to take the vaccine, nor of vaccine passports being used as a lever to get more people to take the vaccine.’

    Very much agree, nor any question of ‘vaccine passports’ full stop. Not for access to venues, nor for travel, nor for NHS operations, nor anything else. It should be a matter of uncoerced personal choice.

    • hefner
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

      Perfect if you want to remain for ever in Britain, but as was pointed out above one might need such a document to go visit friends/family or for work abroad. So keep your narrow point of view for yourself and let other people do what they want: take the vaccine, get a ‘vaxx passport’ and travel.

      We’ll send you postcards.

      • steve
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 2:01 am | Permalink

        hefner

        “So keep your narrow point of view for yourself”

        =========

        He has the same invitation to express his opinion on here as everyone else.

  60. ian
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    The fact is they are trying to put gov spending up to one trillion pounds a year when they haven’t got the taxes to pay for it.

  61. SM
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    I remain very deeply concerned that there has been insufficient trialling of the vaccine over a lengthy period. I understand there have been instances in other vaccine trials where an initial satisfactory response has been followed by later serious problems.

    Given that one or other vaccine will probably be distributed globally, albeit unevenly, I think that everyone involved in their development and manufacture will be biting their fingernails for months, if not years, to come.

    Given my age, I would willingly participate in a trial, but I would certainly not want my children or grandchildren to have the vaccine as it stands now.

  62. Barbara
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    ‘ … it will be easier to secure a removal of controls over our lives.‘

    While Boris and MH have said this, Van Tam has said the controls will have to remain even if people get vaccinated.

    • steve
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

      Barbara

      Van Tam can go and insert controls somewhere rude.

      Before this malarky I’d never heard of him, never seen him, didn’t know who the hell he was, so can’t be expected to trust him.

  63. Iain Gill
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    I liked the response of the Australian cabinet minster when asked why they were not introducing a vaccine as quickly as the Brits!

  64. Lester Cynic Beedell
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Ha, my comment is awaiting moderation, what a surprise, once again comments left after mine have appeared, it’s a shocking comment on yourself Sir John, several other people have mentioned that they have had difficulties with posts, it just sums up the general distrust of the voters for politicians

    • steve
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 1:52 am | Permalink

      Chill out, Lester

  65. Philip Haynes
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    There certainly is herd immunity. We see this already in London and other areas it is clear from the figures. Perhaps it might not last very long (put likely it will) or new genetic version may evolve.

    Almost no one has had it twice and even they may have been false positives.

  66. RichardM
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    A refreshing post not jumping on the nationalistic bandwagon and so further dividing the nation by claiming we are first thanks to brexit, as some in the government were so quick to do.

  67. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    US Dr Fauci says the UK is going to fast.

    DOCTOR Fauci.

    Oughtn’t the BBC be denouncing him as an ‘anti-vaccer’ seeing as they’ve called the Great Barrington Declaration PROFESSORS such ?

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

      too

  68. ian
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    I see that business traveller, performing arts, professional TV production staff, journalists and elite sportsperson now have no need to self-isolating when returning from overseas to England and can travel anywhere they like outside of England I suppose that goes for MPs the Lords and all the rest including refugees which I read the other day, the only people that cannot do as they like are 50 odd million, plebs who will have to take a vaccine to do anything.

  69. acorn
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    I take it that Redwoodian leave voting denialists on this site, will be adding Covid vaccines to their long list of things they deny actually exist, and won’t be conned into submitting themselves to such conspiratorial mechanisms of state control.

    Naturally the State machine will respond by segregating and confining vaccine denialists to prevent them continuing to spread the virus along with their endless demented conspiracy theories.

    I suggest that the State machine hires currently unused Cruise Liners to incarcerate such persons several miles off-shore. Basically a resurrection of the Leper Colonies of olden times; but floating down wind of the vaccinated, face mask wearing remainers. 😉 😉 😉 .

    PS. How come you Brexiteer / leavers are not praising President Trump anymore?

    • Edward2
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

      It is a common thread amongst you lefty lot on here that you want to incarcerate people you dont like.
      Prosecutions, show trials, prison, exclusions, cancelling, removal of voting rights etc.
      You can see how it eventually ends with over 100 million people killed by socialism in the 20th century

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

        Even if your claim were true, that’s only a small fraction of those killed by just one nation’s imperialism, that of the British, according to Harvard research.

        Now add up all the others…

        • Edward2
          Posted December 4, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

          Give us the data that proves your ridiculous claim.
          Total nonsense you just made up.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted December 3, 2020 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

      Acorn,

      Off the top of my head reasons to consider praising President Trump:

      1. Abraham Accords (should get Nobel Peace Prize for this, but Oman holding back on normalisation due to possible purported President Elect Biden effect).
      2. The First Step Act.
      3. Project Warp Speed (yes).
      4. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, Qassem Soleimani …
      5. Opportunity zones.
      6. HBUs support.
      7. Brought China’s threat front and centre.
      8. Asked what’s the point of trade unless everyone in nation benefits?
      9. Space Force.
      10. Space Policy Directive 1 + resurrection of National Space Council.
      11. Reduced large swathes of health and medical taxes, reduced prescription costs, changed Medicare to reduce costs for elderly. (Wanted further reforms to target competition at treatment level not at policy level – unlikely under purported President Elect Biden)
      13. Interagency task force to target human trafficking.
      14. Record low unemployment rates for African-Americans, Hispanics, Asian-Americans.
      15. Broadened Republican base -Highest Republican votes from African-Americans and Hispanics. New Republican Reps aren’t just white men.

      (16. Open to the press despite the s**t thrown at him.)
      (17. Would talk to anyone/any group who went to WH with problem & solution.)

      Needing 10 years to see effect,

      18 Supreme Court and Judiciary appointments (purported President Elect Biden effect?)
      19. Tax restructuring (won’t know long run effect due to purported President Elect Biden)

      Unknown,

      20. Swore the Oath to protect the Constitution and is fighting for it to the end.
      21. (Section 230. Enough time?)

      There are probably others but I don’t follow USA.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted December 3, 2020 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

        12. Called WHO out on CV and China.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 11:29 am | Permalink

        22. Boosted tanning salons ( or maybe just home dye bottles).

  70. Iain gill
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    We are all in it together, or rather not, lol

  71. steve
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    It bothers me that the vaccine is supplied by a company in Belgium. Did the lorries go through France ? if so then did the french demand any bribes to let the medicine through ?

    Also I don’t see prioritising NHS staff as sensible. Say for instance there turns out to be a nasty side effect, they will have taken out most of the NHS. Again, we are being asked to trust SAGE.

  72. hefner
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Grant Shapps, 03/12/2020: ‘Quarantine rules to be relaxed for business travellers’ to England, but only if the trip leads to a deal creating or preserving a minimum of 50 jobs, or to an investment or an order of £100,000+.

    • Iain gill
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 6:35 am | Permalink

      It’s a con, and shows we are certainly not all in this together.

  73. John Devlin
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    I shall not be submitting myself to taking any vaccine for Covid19 as I have issues regarding its safety. I found Acorns comment nauseating. Obviously mature debate and respect for an opposing view and opinion is beyond them.

  74. Simeon
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Off Topic

    I would guess you read Ridley’s column in today’s Torygraph. He was of course extolling the virtues of the vaccine. However, one thing he said caught my eye. He quoted Wayne Koff, president of the Human Vaccines Project.

    “Vaccine development is an expensive, slow and laborious process, costing billions of dollars, taking decades, with less than a 10% chance of success… There is clearly an urgent need to determine ways to improve not just the effectiveness of the vaccines themselves but also the very processes by which they are developed.”

    Given recent events, one might think Koff said this some time ago. But in fact, he said this only last year. Isn’t it fascinating that an eminent immunologist didn’t seem to anticipate the remarkable – miraculous even, as many scientists are openly proclaiming – progress that would be made in the next year? Apparently, only last year, he had no idea that a vaccine could go from concept to delivery in the space of 12 months.

    I could go on, but I think the most fascinating aspect of this is that a man many consider to be very bright has woven into his piece a thread that seriously undermines the credibility of these vaccines that he was intending to celebrate.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 4, 2020 at 11:27 am | Permalink

      but corona viruses have been known for years, and investigated as long.
      It has been claimed that much progress was already made in developing approaches to finding a possible route to defeat them, hence differing tactics.
      Once this virulent one spread I imagine resources otherwise used focused on this example. It is not magic, and rather suspicious that the Chinese, even the Russians, appear to have been able to produce a vaccination much earlier, however what checks and trials were done?

      • Simeon
        Posted December 4, 2020 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

        If these vaccines are genuinely effective against a genuinely serious virus, then neither coincidence nor serendipity cuts it. I think experience has proved that Covid is not genuinely serious to people generally. I think there is more chance the vaccine will cause greater harm. But I also don’t rule out the possibilty that the vaccine itself is benign, at least ostensibly, and that its implementation serves a greater purpose. There is alot I am unsure of, but one thing I am sure of is that governments can’t be trusted, in large part because their interests are tied up with those of big business generally, of which big pharmaceuticals are but one example.

  75. Chris S
    Posted December 3, 2020 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    We are at five minutes to Midnight and, because of pressure being brought by Macron and one or two others, Barnier is, according to the BBC, introducing new conditions into the talks.

    It is looking like Macron will get his way and it will be no deal. That’s fine by me, just as long as it means no fishing access for French boats without paying for a very expensive monthy licence linked to the tonnage of fish landed.

    Oh, and no £39bn either ( Remember it was Barnier who said “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed).”

  76. Caterpillar
    Posted December 4, 2020 at 12:41 am | Permalink

    I’ve now read the vaccine documents at

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-for-covid-19

    It would be good if Mr Hancock could make a statement on (i) the fertility comment (page8) and (ii) compatibility studies comment (page9) in the ‘Info for Health Professionals’ document. Also as many elderly are still struggling to see their GPs but are on antiplatelets/anticoagulants it would be good to clarify that the comment on page 3 of ‘Info for Recipients’ relates just to the injection rather than the vaccine.

  77. lod
    Posted December 4, 2020 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Doesn’t this prove we are the most corrupt country in western world?

  78. TooleyStu
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    SJR,
    This week I declined the vaccine from my GP.

    The Govmt, using a complicit media, has convinced the UK it needs an experimental vaccine,

    Which has no liability for the manufacturer,

    For a virus with a 99.9% survival rate.

    And you think I am the crazy one???

    (99.9% calc from uk death figures 5-12-2020)
    (www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
    ((61014 / 68000000) x100) -100 = 99.91 %

    Best regards, as ever,
    Tooley Stu

  79. Margaret bj
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    The vaccine is good news however the expertise lies with Nurses who have been vaccinating and immunising consistently for decades.The new vaccine is something no one can accurately predict the outcome and will be given according to the criteria for all other vaccines The storage is a problem but when reconstituted lasts a little while
    Logistically it will need to be in a centre where the cold storage is available.I have been asked to administer however am refusing due to my age and health vulnerability . People seem to forget that professionals are also people.

  80. confused
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    Boris said the ‘virus’ has to be stored at -70, surely he meant the vaccine?

  81. confused
    Posted December 6, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Does Boris still think overpopulation is the main issue as he did in 2007?

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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