The EU’s deal is clearly worse than No Deal.

I made the mistake of listening to Radio 4 yesterday lunchtime. They went on and on about alleged problems for trade with the EU if we do not sign a deal, with plenty of speakers including the interviewers pushing the negatives. The ignorance of how trade works was as before.

We were told trade between the UK and the continent is currently as border and friction free as it is between two English counties. Do they not realise goods coming across the Channel have go through VAT adjustments as we have a different set of rates and incidence, Excise payment and currency changes? As this is usually carried out through pre logged computer manifests and settled electronically away from the border. The truck driver does not have to work out the VAT and pay in banknotes at a kiosk. Why cannot we do the same thing for any tariffs that need to be imposed? We will of course.

Why do they never point that their worry about imports is a nonsense, because the UK will control the incoming borders, and has no interest in trying to prevent imports coming in that companies and people in the UK want to buy. Indeed, the UK government has already said there will be a relaxed arrangement for the first six months as importers get used to the new trading regime. EU products will switch over the to the tried and tested system used for imports from all non EU countries, which our Border authorities usually handle well without causing hold ups and bottlenecks.

Some Remain commentators claim the EU will seek to slow or prevent UK exports into their single market by zealous implementation of rules. This shows they have a very low estimate of how our neighbours behave, and ignores the fact that the EU like the UK is a member of the WTO and has to follow WTO rules to expedite traffic at borders and have in place decent systems for handling the volume of goods. As Remain advocates are always extolling the virtue of the international rules based system, surely the EU will want to obey or will have to obey its rules on these matters? The EU will also note that their citizens and companies need those products we are selling and will take a dim view if they are impeded in getting them on time.

Brexiteers are fed up with the endless Project Fear material. We can trade well under WTO rules if the EU really does not want a Free Trade Agreement with us. We will decide what tariffs if any to impose on their goods along with goods from the rest of the world, to get the right balance between helping domestic producers and looking after out customers. No Deal is fine. We should only negotiate a deal if it is clearly better than No Deal. What the EU wants is worse.

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325 Comments

  1. Pominoz
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Please be careful with your headlines!!

    I almost had a heart attack when I read today’s, believing that I had missed a critical news item. Thank goodness Boris hasn’t caved! (yet)

    You, me, and all those who believe in sovereignty and independence know that the RIGHT deal is, in fact NO Deal. Call it Australian terms if necessary, but we know what it means. WTO, Scrap WA, Control Fish No ECJ – then everyone, and I mean everyone, in the UK will benefit.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:26 am | Permalink

      ‘No Deal’ was always the only way to reclaim independence. The only negotiation should have been centred around this premise – i.e. how to transition to this as smoothly – and quickly – as possible. We will never know how the EU would have responded to such an approach because, from the beginning, UK governments have sought to retain as much of the existing arrangements as possible, necessarily subverting the purpose of regaining independence as a result. Sadly, Sir John has never made this point forcefuly enough, and failed to recognise the implications of continuing talks for four and a half years.

      That the conclusion of this shameful episode in British history is now seemingly just days, or even hours away, is welcome. The moment of truth is all but upon us, and there is at least the possibility that Sir John and some of his colleagues will finally, belatedly, leave the Conservative Party. I believe ir may be too late to save the Brexit cause, at least for a generation. But maybe there will be some chance now that, outside of the Conservative Party, Sir John and others may finally see sense on the virus response. This is now the only issue that matters, as it is an existential threat to basic liberty. Brexit will have to wait.

      reply I have always said No deal is fine and it is only worth discussing a deal if it is better.

      • Simeon
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:24 am | Permalink

        Reply to reply

        But a ‘deal’ was never going to be better, particularly given those negotiating it. Even if this wasn’t obvious immediately, it has been obvious for some time.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

          It’s not “fine” for the thousands of people who have already lost jobs – e.g. at the engine plant and steel works in S. Wales – thanks to the uncertainty engendered by your brexit.

          • NickC
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

            Martin, Neither of those are due to Brexit. Both have been jeopardised by your CAGW religion and its consequences.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

            Press articles about the Bridgend engine plant Ford are closing don’t mention Brexit uncertainty.
            But expect more of these closures as internal combustion engines will not be not allowed in vehicles after 2030.
            The steel plant has been making huge losses for years.
            World competition is the cause.

          • Fred H
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

            uncertainty? what a load of b’locks.
            Dumping of poor quality steel by China is to blame. This outsourced steel is cheaper because it is low quality, not tested for safety, or held to the same standards as their American-made counterparts

          • Simeon
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

            There would have been no uncertainty had Brexit been implemented in a timely and proper manner. Certainly, there would have been losers as well as winners, but having losers and winners is a natural feature of a healthy economy. And today’s losers can be tomorrow winners. I wouldn’t want to downplay the trauma of being made redundant, but there is a world of difference between being made redundant with no future prospects, and losing your job and entering a vibrant jobs market. Ups and downs are a fact of life.

        • Hope
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

          I am at a loss to understand why the U.K. wants ECHR or the awful European Arrest Warrant! The former overrules our own courts, so not taking back control or controlling our laws and the latter allows despots to whisk our citizens away without evidence or safeguards! So foreign criminals never deported, innocent British citizens whisked off!

          Again, all about EU dominance and control over us even though we left!

          • Leslie Singleton
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

            Dear Hope–The ‘E’ in both ECHR and ECJ needs to be made in to ‘EU’ thus broadcasting to many where they are going wrong in their thinking.

        • Hope
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

          JR, so why is your party and govt not building coal fired powered stations to provide cheap energy for jobs and industry like Germany and China?

          Why is Johnson talking absolute green drapery shite to lead a small number of left wing liberal Londoners?

          We will need cheap energy to make our own way in the world. EU. OT highlighting Germany’s failings by being dependent on Russian gas, French electric and coal fired powered stations! Why not?

          Why is your fake Tory govt allowing other country’s to dominate the world by wealth through industry while wrecking its own? Where is the EU level playing field in that! Trump we need you!

          • Dee
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

            It’s not Boris’s Green agenda it is his missus Carrie Symonds who is ruling the roost and telling Boris what to do. The Country is being run by an unelected girlfriend. The sooner he gets rid of her the sooner we can talk some sense back into Boris’s head.
            I agree with you, Germany are building 28 New coal fired plants and China 300.. Whatever we do is just a spit in the ocean, but the ordinary person will suffer. That is why next election either Farage or Fox will take the vote because Boris has proved the Party’s we have got now just do not listen to their electors.

          • Ignoramus
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

            Because the cost of producing energy by wind power and solar power is on track to be cheaper than coal by the middle of this decade.

            Combined with the improvement in battery technology, largely due to government subsidies which are now no longer required, even the baseload problem is being dealt with.

            Coal use is dropping dramatically across the developed world as suppliers do not believe it is sustainable, so it is very difficult to get investment. In America and Europe, coal use has dropped by 34% since 2009. Trump actually subsidised it, yet still coal use has declined in the U.S during his presidency.

            China has recently pledged to become carbon-neutral by 2060, and to reduce its coal usage by a third to one quarter over the next five years.

            I have a coal power station right next to my house. It sits unused for most of the year. Supporting coal requires government subsidies, and like every good right-winger, I believe in the free market, not pointless handouts to white elephants.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

            A simple internet search shows many articles explaining the large government subsidies wind and solar industries enjoy.
            One article says “The UK government to double subsidies for renewable energy in 2021”
            If you believe China’s statement you will be disappointed.

          • Ignoramus
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 11:11 am | Permalink

            Edward. You are quite right, but those subsidies are no longer required. They have served their purpose in getting renewable costs down. Almost all promising new technology requires subsidies in its early years. As I said, renewables are rapidly becoming the cheapest energy source around. Not surprising as wind and sun are free and do not need to be mined.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

            If they are not required why are they doubling subsidies this year?

          • Ignoramus
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

            Because the government need to encourage the use of renewables. The coal stations need replacing after all. I am not here to defend the use of subsidies. Merely to point out that renewables are becoming cheaper than coal, oil and gas. Something I think we can all celebrate.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 9, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

            They are only referred to as cheaper because they are heavily subsidised.

          • chris
            Posted December 14, 2020 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

            If you believe in free lunches you will also believe in wind and solar power. Look at gridwatch.templar uk – more than several times in the last few months we have been pretty much without any power from wind and solar for more than 4 days at a time, maybe the isobars are social distancing due to virus ? The grid has issued shortage warnings and the gas, nuclear, biomass and even coal stations have been running flat out to compensate for unreliability of nature. You can’t run a modern economy using fans on sticks – Germany and China know this and will not get rid of coal. Princess Carrie lives in la-la land.

      • GilesB
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

        No Deal is the way to go.

        Whatever happens there will be more data collection for trade. Even with a deal there will be sanitary and phyto-sanitary checks at the border, and the need to collect data showing compliance with the rules of origin.

        Tariffs are quite minor. And without a deal the U.K. government will receive more from U.K. imports from the EU than will be paid to the EU on exports from the U.K. It is totally to the benefit of the EU to have a deal avoiding tariffs: the U.K. is better off with tariffs.

        Sovereignty is the real difference. And of course much better with no deal.

      • Simeon
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:05 am | Permalink

        The point I’m trying to make is that you have been reactive rather than proactive in your relationship with the government, seemingly as a result of the trust you’ve afforded them. Clearly, my view is that you have have trusted without warrant, that your faith has been blind, that you’ve closed your eyes and hoped for the best. I am critical of voters who did the same, so it is only fair for me to be even more critical of those in a position to do more than simply vote. But I think it is time to stop looking backwards, to cry no more over spilt milk, to decide where to go from here.

        Reply Lots of nonsense in this reply.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

          Reply to reply

          It’s unfortunate you didn’t elaborate. I think standing behind a character like Boris Johnson could only ever be construed as closing your eyes and hoping for the best. He’s never earned anyone’s trust, so anyone trusting him, as you and the ERG did, were hoping he did what he told you he would do.

          I fully accept that you will have supported him with reservations. I also fully accept that you and the ERG, together, agreed he was your best bet. After all, no ERG candidate could ever have secured enough votes to stand before the party membership. But that an ERG candidate was a non-runner, and that Boris Johnson was the best option should have told you all you need to know about how serious your party was, and is, about delivering a Brexit worthy of the name.

          If not before, this was surely the time to conclude that the Conservative Party was no longer what it had once been. And with the existence of an almost-credible alternative that just needed the extra push a sizeable chunk of Tory MPs could have given them, I think remaining in the Conservative Party was very much a case of closing one’s eyes and hoping for the best.

      • Hope
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:27 am | Permalink

        It was pointed out at the outset of leaving the EU would never agree a good deal because others would leave if it thought a country would flourish outside it.

        The EU would only ever agree a bad deal if the U.K. Govt. was stupid enough to do so.

        Sadly the U.K. Govt. agreed a catastrophic damaging WA and NIP leading the EU to believe the U.K. Govt is stupid and weak. JR and co actually voted for it! Even though eminent people like Martin Howe QC pointed out the huge failings.

        Johnson was going to walk October last year, June, July, 15th October, November! Seems he is weak and will not walk accepting anything given.

        • NickC
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

          Hope, Unfortunately your analysis is correct.

        • DavidJ
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

          Indeed Hope; Johnson is not to be trusted.

      • Everhopeful
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink

        If the virus response was one of fear that the Left would accuse the govt of killing people….how come MPs are comfortable with the fact that many elderly WERE killed due to “virus policy”?
        And that the sick were sent home.
        And that even now it is hard to get medical/dental care.
        And that “Care Homes” are virtually taking people prisoner.
        And that some people under house arrest could not get food.
        And that there will be millions unemployed.
        And that the police attack peaceful protesters..viciously.
        LOYALTY TO THE PARTY CAN NOT BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT IS HAPPENING…SURELY???
        What is Brexit worth if our govt can do this to us?
        It would/will be like going to live on a desert island with an abusive partner.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

        reply to reply….but a deal has always involved endless levels of bullying and brinkmanship, trust being broken constantly, each side needing to be able to say we won, the other side giving in.
        Good faith? Pah!
        Way over 4 years wasted on this nonsense – and £xxx billions in resignation fees.

      • acorn
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

        Sovereignty is in the eyes of the beholders. There is no benchmark, not even its own currency, that awards sovereignty to a nation. Other nations decide to collectively to bestow such status and welcome it into their Club. The UK, as three proto-states and one province; all of a sudden thinks it is a federal entity! Hence the Internal Market Bill.

        JR says “No Deal is fine. We should only negotiate a deal if it is clearly better than No Deal. What the EU wants is worse.”

        Perhaps it is time for him and the rest of the ERG/CRG, to open for the very first time exactly what goodies they guarantee will be in the “no-deal” box? Detailed predictions to a couple of decimal places will be sufficient for now?

        Reply Freedom and self government

        • NickC
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

          Acorn, Sovereignty is not in the eyes of the beholder. We are entitled to self-determination (a UN right) without coercive foreign control. And yes that’s exactly what the EU did as encapsulation by EU (Lisbon) Declaration 17 which states that EU law has primacy over us.

      • Peter Wood
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:43 am | Permalink

        Reply to reply.

        Yes indeed you have, as have others; however, what has been missing is that explanation of the benefits of ‘no deal’ and how we can make it work for us.

        I can see that allowing the chancellor to raise tax from import duties would help him with pandemic costs, it would make domestic production more attractive. Help would need to be provided for exporters to find new markets, or mitigate EU tariffs. These issues need to be discussed.

      • Timaction
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

        Indeed. I think we’re getting to the business end. We voted out of all their rules, courts, fishing and agricultural polices, single markets etc. Those who trade with the EU follow their rules on exports. The 88% of our GDP not involved in EU trade can diverge to suit our markets and become more competitive. That’s what they fear. If they don’t want to continue trading with us their are plenty of other suppliers in the world to source the goods. If they want tariffs on goods then so be it with a £90 billion trading deficit in their favour.
        May has a lot to be held account for. There needs to be an inquiry into her and Robbins behaviour colluding with a foreign power and against our National interests with her Chequers ambush and actions behind the scenes. That gave us the WA and NI protocol and political declaration all in favour of the EU. Totally useless people and should be serving time in a different age!

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:49 am | Permalink

      Pominoz I think you’ll find Boris will capitulate very soon. According to reports he’s already succumbed to the EU over fishing rights bringing in a transition period of between 5 and 7 years. This will pra baby be stretched out for longer allowing the EU to plunder the seas further with their factory ships. He is also considering abiding by EU laws for trade into the distant future. It is frightening to think he is even considering this when any true leader of a sovereign country would just walk away. We have a bunch of wimps in charge who have no intention of letting us become a truly independent and sovereign state again. I think many people will wipe their hands of this fake Tory party once this fiasco is finished unless Boris fulfills his promise to the majority that voted for Brexit.

      • Everhopeful
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink

        Exactly.
        But my fear is that since they have already established authoritarian control… how will we make our voices heard?
        Already there is talk of next May’s elections being cancelled.
        How long will sheep believe the virus narrative?

        Idiot MPs should not have even countenanced last May’s elections being cancelled. Terrifying

      • MWB
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:41 am | Permalink

        What else can you expect from pathetic Eton ‘know nothings’.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

        Fedup, For Boris Johnson, it’s all about calculating how much the Conservative party’s vote can be split – how many can be persuaded to stay with the Tories. For the civil service it was always about “damage” limitation. So we will get a deal. And the deal will capitulate on the principle of foregoing our sovereignty – not the EU’s – to allow the EU to plunder our single market. Boris will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And we will pay for decades.

        • JanM
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

          +100

      • steve
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

        Fedupsoutherner

        “I think many people will wipe their hands of this fake Tory party once this fiasco is finished unless Boris fulfills his promise to the majority that voted for Brexit.”

        ============

        In fact I think many of these fake tories will find themselves running for their lives. But one thing is certain: any betrayal whatsoever is the end of the conservative party, they’ll have to disband.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      All the Remain commentators who state that “no Deal” will be a disaster for the economy will no doubt demand stricter lockdown measures and demand that all petrol and diesel cars are banned by 2030 (this evening).

      • Lifelogic
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:57 am | Permalink

        Indeed Boris is wrong on all this (and on HS2) doubtless he will cave in to the EU deal too. I suppose it depends on the Queen of Green lunacy Carrie.

        A good podcast with Nigal Lawson (Trigger) – I have never been more worried about this country.

        We have second lock down insanity. expensive energy insanity, car banning insanity, HS2 insanity and shortly a duff EU agreement insanity plus fiscal insanity from Sunak. They cannot even get the Vaccine priorities right. This will (even if the vaccine is safe and works) clearly kill more people by not targeting men at a slightly earlier age than women and other at risk groups.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

          Jeremy Warner in the Sunday Telegraph says – “Climate sceptics have lost, but now the Prime Minister has to build green growth.”

          Perhaps politically they have. Perhaps thanks to Theatre Studies Graduate Queen Carrie. The laws of physics remain the same and energy economics remains largely the same too. Subsidising and pushing green crap before it works or is economic is job and growth destroying insanity Boris.

          Especially after the Covid over reaction it is the last thing the UK needs. Rather like HS2.

          • Hope
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

            LL,
            Good articles in Con Woman today. One on how the principles of the WEF socialist mantra build back better is in stark contradiction to conservative values. Yet, last year Fake Tory Govt quietly wrote a white paper on it! A bit like Trudeau Canadian PM back tracking on it when the details were put to him!

            Suggest all watch Ivor Cummings on Chinese virus lockdown with documents by WHO and others. Fake Tory Govt should be ashamed. The true incompetence will come back to bite them no matter how much they try to hide the true facts. Again, video contained in an article in Con Woman by Kathy Gyngell.

            I think it is increasingly becoming clear there is nothing conservative about this current left wing socialist govt. Many articles on a daily, weekly basis on it. Its name has no bearing on the party or govt!

        • Lifelogic
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:28 am | Permalink

          Plus the block half the roads for half a dozen extra cyclists, causing huge congestion and far more pollution from our idiotic transport secretary, Khan and various local councils. Complete insanity as Farage pointed out yesterday.

          • David L
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

            I often drive past Wokingham Station where cyclists take their chances amid the cars and none of them use the cycle lanes provided by the Council.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

          Also why wast vacinne on people who have had it and recovered? They are clearly immune otherwise why would the infection have dies down in areas like London that had the infection badly. They clearly have herd immunity as many either were immune already (perhaps for genentic or other similar infection reasons) or the have caught it and developted immunity.

        • RichardM
          Posted December 8, 2020 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

          continually repeating the same anti-green crap / herd immunity crap / vaccinate men first crap every day doesnt make it right or true.
          If the covid vaccine is delivered in batches of 1000 units to the elderly in care homes and nurses first it makes no sense to not vaccinate women in those places at the same time.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

        What a strange thing to say.

        Why?

        • NickC
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

          Martin, It’s what you do say. You explicitly demanded harsher, longer, earlier (but only after the event), lockdowns. And even if you won’t admit it lockdowns are both a health and an economic disaster – far, far worse than even the most doom-laden Remain guess about the outcome of real independence.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

      But as you keep claiming, brexit is “not about trade”.

      Well nor is the European Union at its heart.

      It is not an economic project.

      It is not a political project.

      It is a moral project.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

        It is a moral project.

        If you think the replacement of national democracies across Europe with an autocracy in Brussels is a moral project – then, fine, it’s a moral project. Personally, I regard it as an immoral project – a power grab that started out disguised as a trade arrangement.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

        another good laugh – keep ’em coming.

        • DavidJ
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

          Sadly he seems to believe it!

          • Fred H
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

            a comedian with conviction.

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

        I gather that the morality at the heart of the EU’s ‘elite’ was on display recently, shinning-down drainpipes.

      • M P B
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

        Wales first encountered “The Project” back in the late 70’s when the UK participated in the ECSC, the European Coal and Steel Community. Success there then whereby both industrial economic sectors have now been decimated in S Wales.
        That was followed by the EEC, the EC and finally the EU.
        As often repeated, ” watch my lips, it’s the economy stupid” The clue is in the capital E.

      • steve
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

        MiC

        The EU project has always been about getting Union borders as close as possible to Russia.

    • Mike Durrans
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:03 am | Permalink

      +1

  2. DOM
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    When has trade ever been the fundamental, defining issue of the UK’s relationship with the EU? It never has. This entire, tedious issue has always been about political control

    I voted to leave for the UK to leave the EU to regain her freedom and sovereignty and now I find that my own personal freedoms and my own personal sovereignty has also been impeded and distilled by your party in government conspiring with Labour and their social activist bigots to expose us all to social Marxism and attacks on our very soul and mind

    I’d rather starve in a ditch knowing I had the right to express any opinion I choose than live comfortably in a nation whose politicians and bureaucrats pass authoritarian laws designed to destroy voice, spirit and mind

    At least Macron has the guts to confront barbarity whereas our politicians whimper into the aye lobby capitulating to their favoured pressure and lobby groups

    The British political class are teetering on the edge of barbarity and hate themselves. Their viciousness and revengeful politics is causing deep resentment and your party’s betrayal of its natural constituency in an attempt to pander to the Marxist left and their social agenda will not be forgotten

    • Grey Friar
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

      Could you kindly tell us which opinions you are not allowed to express – either anonymously on an Internet forum like this or in person?

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

        One feels that, for example, to criticise in any way the current vaccine is to invite investigation by the thought police. Some people a couple of weeks ago wanted ‘anti-vax’ comments to be made illegal.

        • Grey Friar
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

          What is this “thought police”? What powers do they have? I think you are just inventing silly stories, in reality the internet is awash with criticism of the vaccine

        • Lifelogic
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

          Kier Starmer demanded this censorship and Hancock seemed rather supportive. They do not have a clue whether the vaccine is safer than the risk of catching the virus which will also very by age, gender, genetics etc. Let us hope it is very safe. Most areas have herd immunity anyway now.

      • GilesB
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

        ‘Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.’

        It’s nothing to do with the EU as such, but the whole concept of ‘hate crime’ is the modern actual realisation of George Orwell’s fiction that was intended as a warning, not a manual.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

          Indeed.

    • Sharon
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      Dom

      I agree with all you say! It’s all political and about power over us.

      And over the last four years, I have seen numerous responses saying the same thing as you – they’d rather be poorer but free!

      I think a lot of people assumed we’d leave and that the government would sort out “the daily stuff” like flying over each other’s airspace etc.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      Absolutely.
      +1

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:52 am | Permalink

      What opinion did our former membership of the European Union prevent you from expressing?

      Well?

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

        Clangg!! You have misunderstood, Martin. Dom said he voted to leave the EU in order that the UK should regain sovereignty, only to find that his own personal sovereignty (liberties) have been curtailed by the current government.

        And no matter how many times you lie about the UK having already left the EU, it does not alter the fact that the EU controls the UK as much as it did in 2015. The Referendum choice has still not been implemented, four and a half years after we voted by a majority to Leave.

    • Jack Falstaff
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:48 am | Permalink

      I agree.

      I think that at this stage it would be perfectly legitimate to refer to these people as “Fifth Columnists” and speak of “radicalisation”, given their hatred of the UK.

      If people are not doing this at this point, it is because it is too late and they have already infiltrated and even taken control of the entire media by stealth, not to mention Parliament.

      If this does not worry you, it should do.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

        Jack, Yes, it does worry me. Principally because it is so amazing how gullible Remains are at still swallowing EU ideology.

  3. SM
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    I can’t help feeling that were I a really senior EU official, I would be far more occupied with the uncomfortable presence of Putin’s Russia on many of my borders, as well as with the serious rumblings from Iran and the Middle East (just across the Med and the Adriatic) and the surge in migrants fleeing Afghanistan/Iran/Pakistan/Ethiopia and other Sahel countries etc, than in constantly niggling with the UK.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:32 am | Permalink

      You make good points about the wider geopolitical situation. However, you misunderstand the relationship between the EU and the British state. What you perceive to be niggling is merely for show. There is in fact complete agreement that the 2016 referendum result was a political problem to be managed. The game the EU and the UK government have been cooperatively playing is, How to fool enough of the British people into thinking that their independence has been restored when in fact nothing meaningful has changed.

      • Andy
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

        Well, 17.4m people were fooled into thinking their sovereign, independent, coastal state was not independent or sovereign. So some people will literally believe anything.

        • Edward2
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

          You are being ridiculous again andy.

          • Hope
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

            SM, Not sure you are correct. You are not looking at the situation from a western U.K. perspective.

            EU willingly gave the order to Sarkosi and Cameron to invade Lybia. This created a failed state with mass migration. They tried the same with Syria.

            Merkel called the world immigrants to help her country’s population problem.
            Merkel is totally reliant on Russian energy!

            Merkel in the process of building a bigger gas pipeline (despite calls for green crapery from everyone) creating even more industrial capacity through Russian gas against the West concerns! Is Germany making token green crap noises for everyone else so it can mop all industry and be one of the most dominant country’s in the world?

            A bit like China. UK and the West Allow it to dominate the world by its wealth by giving it a free pass through Paris agreement to build coal fired power stations creating cheap energy while Johnson and idiotic chums talk woke shite. Guess who else is building coal fired power stations? Germany! Pass all UK jobs and industry to China and Germany that sounds like a good plan!

        • Mike Wilson
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

          If we were an independent, sovereign coastal state, how was it we had no say over who fished for what in our waters? Why did we, as in independent, sovereign state have to pay 12 thousand, million pounds a year to access a market that sold us twice as much as we sold it? Why is that we, as an independent, sovereign state, could not limit immigration to our independent, sovereign state.

          The answer, I think you’ll have to agree, is that we were not an independent, sovereign state.

        • NickC
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

          We probably believe the UK isn’t sovereign or independent within the EU, Andy, because the EU stated in Declaration 17 (Lisbon) that EU law has “primacy over the law of member states”. Clearly some people will literally believe anything, especially when they don’t bother looking it up.

        • Leslie Singleton
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

          Dearest Andy– Pore unadulterated twaddle same like always

          • steve
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

            Leslie

            It’s likely some kind of hypercritical association with delirious phenomena.

        • Andy
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

          Thick people think we are not an independent state. Thick people voted for Brexit. Enjoy being thick.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:44 am | Permalink

            You are being ridiculous again Andy.
            Read the treaties.

          • NickC
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 11:29 am | Permalink

            My, what a tantrum, Andy!

      • Sharon
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

        I agree!

        And I worry that if have ‘no deal’, that it will be hoped that the stupid British public won’t notice the WA and PD not being ripped up!

        They fail to realise just how many people have become politically aware and are following the government’s every move! There are enough places to get the information for people to know exactly what these twisters are doing….as with this virus malarkey. People know!!

        • NickC
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

          Sharon, Yes, people do know. The government will not get away with pulling the wool over our eyes any more.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

          I hope you are right. But I think things will have to get even worse before a critical mass of voters desert the Conservative Party, and, just as importantly, coalesce around one alternative. The Conservative Party will have to be completely obliterated to allow the alternative, whatever that may be, to compete with Labour. (I know Labour are also in an almighty mess, but, against a divided opposition they can gain power with modest support, even if they have to form a coalition with the SNP, or even the Lib Dems.)

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

        Excellent post Simeon. They think we are stupid but not half as stupid as them.

      • James Bertram
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:50 am | Permalink

        Top comment, Simeon.
        Exactly what has been going on.

      • MWB
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:35 am | Permalink

        NATO is interering on the borders of Russia.

        • Dennis
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

          Yes and there are many 100s of US bases surrounding Russia. If the reverse were true there would be 24/365 howls of anguish about it from every other country. Actually maybe not as there would be nuclear war within a week even if the US were obliterated.

      • Nicky Roberts
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:52 am | Permalink

        I would have more confidence in your post if Frost and Johnson were not stating today and for the last few weeks that there has to be movement from the EU on level playing field and fish.

        Had we been in the market for pulling wool over collected eyes, they could have accepted a fudge by now, and announced that it was the only deal on offer, oh and by the way we are bound to benefit hugely by it.

        Of course Brexiteers are nervous because we have been told the referendum would be honoured so many times, and we got Theresa May and Ollie Robbins conspiring with the enemy. But they have gone.

      • Mark B
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

        Bang on ! Could not have put it better myself.

        🙂

      • John Partington
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

        Sadly, a lot of the great unwashed only get their facts from the guardian or Daily Mirror. However, a lot of people were fooled by the WA that Boris signed. It was just a warmed over agreement dictated to May and Olly Robbins. We need no deal and on Jan1st,2021,ditch the WA and to hell with the EU and all its laws etc.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

          The ‘centre-right’ press are just as bad in their own way. The Torygraph (clue’s in the name!) and The Sun have been cheerleaders for Boris Johnson all along. As for the WA, Martin Howe QC, supposedly a staunch Brexiter, endorsed it with Johnson’s amendments – in The Torygraph. There are no genuinely Brexit papers, and certainly no Brexit broadcasters. You have to go outside the mainstream to find any halfway sensible commentary and analysis.

    • Radar
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:54 am | Permalink

      Very good points, SM.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:53 am | Permalink

      and the worsening basket case economies all round the EU.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      They are, but it is the UK which keeps pestering the European Union for unreasonable concessions, not vice-versa.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

        They are, but it is the UK which keeps pestering the European Union for unreasonable concessions, not vice-versa.

        Not at all. They are the ones pestering us to keep fishing our fish. And they are the ones insisting that trade disputes be settled by THEIR court. As for the level playing field – don’t make me laugh. Germany and France have been doing whatever they want in terms of subsidies whereas we have always obeyed every little rule and diktat.

      • Edward2
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

        You think it unreasonable to have the same rights on coastal fishing that every other nation in the world has.
        How strange.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

        On the contrary, Martin, the UK (so far) is simply stating what the law is for independent nations. When have we demanded that the EU: obeys our laws and our courts, gives us a bribe, and accepts us stealing their fish, just for access to our single market? Because that’s what the EU is demanding.

      • steve
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

        MiC

        “They are, but it is the UK which keeps pestering the European Union for unreasonable concessions, not vice-versa.”

        =============

        Rubbish.

  4. Radar
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    Get the hell OUT of there, Boris!
    No Deal is fine.

  5. Grey Friar
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    You sure sound rattled! Boris is going to do a deal. It will tie us to the EU’s rules on competition, aid, and green policies. You aren’t keeping the fish either. At last Brexit exposed as fantasy

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:20 am | Permalink

      John has devoted decades of his life to this.

      I begin to wonder if he can remember exactly why, however.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

        better than following Scargill, Livingstone, Hatton, Crow, Mandelson, Hain, Prescott.

      • JanM
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

        Because , Mic, Sir John Redwood, has been a true blue conservative, he has served the people, believing in his party, working for the people, now a voice in the void.
        I do wonder what you have devoted your life to?

        • Fred H
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

          there have always been left-wing destructive organisations and commentators, anarchists might be a better understood term.

        • steve
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

          JanM

          “I do wonder what you [MiC] have devoted your life to?”

          ==============

          Sheep, I suspect.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:37 am | Permalink

      You’re the one sounding rattled.

    • James Freeman
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

      With employment and services trade across borders, life is even more complex. Companies and workers are usually subject to double-taxation treaties. This involves specialist accountants. As working from home becomes common, this is an increasing barrier to trade. Another way the UK single markets beats the EU version!

      • James Freeman
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

        Accidentally against GF’s comment, we it should have been a stand-alone one.

    • Richard1
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

      I suspect that’s not correct.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:37 am | Permalink

      It didn’t have to be a fantasy. All we have to do is leave and make it real. We have a political class, none of whom have any bottle.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

        Mike W, Exactly right. Four and a half long years, and all our useless politicians had to do was accept the Referendum decision and leave.

    • czerwonadupa
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

      So freedom to you is a fantasy?.

      That’s the mindset of the people in North Korea who believe what their master tells them as they have no means of knowing otherwise.

      On the other hand the British do know what freedom is having given it back to the peoples of India, Pakistan & the Africans states. Try telling them freedom is a fantasy.

  6. Shirley M
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    No deal is better than a bad deal. Could there possibly be a worse deal than that demanded by the EU? The EU sense of self entitlement is staggering. I have also heard that the EU have refused to consider services, so even a simple trade deal would be heavily weighted in the EU’s favour. We can find new markets, but the EU can never acquire a new contributing member that has given so much benefit to the EU in the form of money, fish, trade, pulling power for trade agreements with other countries, and jobs for their unemployed. It has to be no deal. Don’t let us down, Boris. We would never vote to be a vassal state, and you know it.

    • Andy
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

      You feel for that one too. Any deal is better than a no deal. This has always been the case, however much you all protest otherwise.

      And there will be a deal, even if there is briefly a no deal first. Enjoy it. It’ll be rubbish.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

        It’ll be rubbish.

        I do hope so. The worse the deal the better. It will harden our resolve and lead to us getting out properly. I do hope the EU continues to be completely unreasonable. The more unreasonable the better.

        • Andy
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

          Doubtful. Pensioners Brexit is already resented and loathed by younger people. We will simply wait for you all to die.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:46 am | Permalink

            Andy
            I the last election the two parties that want what you want failed.

          • Fred H
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

            thought for the day!

          • a-tracy
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:56 am | Permalink

            Ageist Andy.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

        Yes, unlike the referendum’s requirement, all of these arrangements are reversible or enhanceable.

        Parties will be elected to office on proposals to do just those things or not.

        This is the beginning of the European Union completely dominating current affairs in this country as never before.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

        Andy, You are shooting yourself in the foot. The worse the EU makes the deal the less we’ll buy from them. Your choice.

        • Andy
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

          It is you Brexit extremists making it bad you thick old berk.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:49 am | Permalink

            Ah the nice, kind, caring left shows it’s true colours.
            Lovely PC diversity there young andy.

          • a-tracy
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

            Another example of Ageist Hate Peddling Andy.

      • steve
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        If you think the EU is so damn good, why are you still here?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:18 am | Permalink

      Your priority would appear to be to do the maximum damage to the European Union, rather than to secure the greatest benefit for the UK, no matter what the consequences for this country.

      The only explanation for that is hate, I think, but stemming from what I can only guess.

      • Edward2
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

        Shirley never said anything about wanting to do the EU maximum harm.
        Why do you make stuff up?

        • NickC
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

          Edward2, I have wondered the same – why does Martin (and Andy, and Hefner, etc) make so much stuff up? And the obvious answer is they cannot argue about the reality. So faked up “quotes”, ad hominem attacks, ignoring what Leaves actually think, and pure guesses about the future, are all the order of the day.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

            I totally agree Nick.

      • steve
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

        MiC

        “Your priority would appear to be to do the maximum damage to the European Union”

        ===============

        Cant answer for anyone else, but that would certainly be my priority. It’s the only language the ungrateful EU understand.

    • Mike Stallard
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:22 am | Permalink

      Yup. I agree.
      And the EU, I believe, is falling down round their ears into bankruptcy (Italy, Greece), Visigrad and Franco German disagreement over trade imbalance with the UK. And from the EU, only the leader of the AfD has spoken out openly about the catastrophe of UK leaving.
      But now comes the bill. Can we pay?

    • Pominoz
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:22 am | Permalink

      Shirley M,

      Absolutely!

    • Mark B
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

      It’s not a trade deal!

    • James1
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

      The EU want us to adhere to any laws that they pass despite having no say in shaping them. How absurd is that? The whole point of Brexit is that we want to make our own laws. We are big boys and girls, we can make our own laws. We managed it for hundreds of years.

    • Kevin
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

      “.. the EU can never acquire a new contributing member that has given so much benefit to the EU in the form of money, fish, trade, pulling power for trade agreements with other countries, and jobs for their unemployed.”
      So true. You put it succinctly.

  7. Andy
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    Your government is building actual lorry parks.

    • Edward2
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

      In case the French deliberately play us up.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

      Your government is building actual lorry parks.

      Why not? They have to play somewhere.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

      I hope with British workers, British companys and British materials

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

      Not “literally” building lorry parks, Andy? We have to build them because your EU is either incompetent, or vindictive, and so won’t let our lorries through efficiently.

      I wouldn’t keep advertising how useless the EU is, if I were you.

      • Andy
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

        Poor Nick. Still doesn’t understand what he voted for. Maybe you’ll never get there.

        • NickC
          Posted December 8, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

          That’s projection, Andy.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

      not lorry parks – firm bases for the illegal immigrants to pitch tents.

  8. Sea_Warrior
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    I look forward to seeing the government sort out the bias in the Beeb’s ‘news’ coverage. R5L this morning was equally bad.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

      Is not just their bias its the absolute rubbish they report as headline breaking news – today on the BBC they reported that there could be no snow in 80 years by the turn of the century ?

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

        Yep – and the source was the Met Office. The government needs to set up an independent body, similar to the OBR, to cross-check every last one of the claims of the climate change alarmists. At present, it is building its future policies on a very soft set of intellectual foundations.

  9. Mike Stallard
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    Details. A man phoned LBC yesterday who ran a service industry on the continent. Now he has been told that he needs an office in every single country with which he deals. He will be ruined.
    The farmer who farms in UK and then moves to Spain to grow lettuces in the winter will have to make serous adjustments. Irish livestock moving to Europe for slaughter will be forbidden.

    The huge question must be this: can we make money out of trading with the rest of the world which will pay off the £2,000 billion debt and reduce the deficit and run the bulging welfare state?

    Time will tell.

    • rose
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

      Livestock moving through Ireland to the Continent isn’t all Irish. Because the English ferries refuse to touch this disgustingly cruel trade, animals are taken across the Irish Sea, down through Ireland, then across by sea to France, then down to Spain in searing temperatures, and on to North Africa. Or else East to Asia. The slaughter you refer to is ritual. That is the point of keeping these poor beasts alive all that time and in those temperatures. We are now going to outlaw this inhuman trafficking, not having been allowed to by the EU.

    • miami.mode
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

      MS, our host has constantly informed us that the UK government owns £895bn of its own debt through Quantitative Easing.

  10. Roy Grainger
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    We run a huge trade deficit with the EU trading on single-market terms. We run a huge trade surplus with the USA trading on WTO terms. So we should be scraed of WTO terms why exactly ?

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

      We run a huge trade deficit with the EU trading on single-market terms. We run a huge trade surplus with the USA trading on WTO terms. So we should be scraed of WTO terms why exactly ?

      And answer came there none.

  11. Mark B
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    There will be a ‘Deal’ (Association Agreement). It will be EU Membership v2.0 less representation in their Toy Parliament.

    Why oh why did we ever bother ?

  12. oldtimer
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    The promotion of fear is the default basis to argue for government policy. This is also true for the BBC’s incessant propaganda campaigns for the causes they push. Among the latest is a rerun of the Met Office prediction that we shall no longer see snow in the south of England because of global warming. As for CO2 Harry Metcalf’s, on his Harry’s Garage YouTube channel, has comprehensively demonstrated how the push for electric cars will add the CO2, not reduce it. Apparently Volvo have calculated that the manufacture of their electric car produces c1.5 X the CO2 of the ice version. The push for electric will exacerbate the “problem” of CO2 not reduce it while decimating jobs.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • Dennis
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

      No coverage from the BBC and others on the Co2 & other green gases from the US MIC – supposed to be the largest emitter in the world.

      Still if we all die off from that it will be in a democracy, so very much worth it. Who would want the Earth to die in a socialist state?

  13. agricola
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Let’s see what the reality is and then comment. At the moment all media is comment. Until Boris stands in the HoC and spells it out followed by a paper specifying the detail what is the point of speculating. Providing he realises that it is not only the future of the country at stake, but that of the conservative party and his political career. There is no future for all three in semi detachment.

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

      Agricola, Well said.

  14. Bryan Harris
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    As an MP is it not possible to bring pressure to bear on the BBC for deliberately issuing false information – Surely a minister can do something to at least make them to apologize.
    We should consider taking them to court!

    It is infuriating that remoaners can get away with all of this – for those that think the BBC is still unbiased in any way they will accept what the BBC puts out – which is a form of brainwashing.

    Time and again the BBC show their true persona – when is this fifth columnist going to be closed down?

  15. Richard1
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    This is surely right whether you voted leave or remain. We cannot have a situation beyond January where EU controls over and interference in U.K. policy are still a subject for splenetic public debate as now. We need to implement clean Brexit, either with or without a normal FTA and see whether it works.

    If it’s the disaster Continuity Remain assure us it will be then we will just have to crawl back with our national tail between our legs in a few years and beg for re-admittance. Joining the euro will surely be a condition.

    I suspect, with a few teething problems – which will be hugely overblown in the media, especially the BBC, we will find it doesn’t make much difference. We will then be in a position to negotiate a sensible FTA with the EU in future years. There will be an enormous boost to confidence in the U.K. economy if we jump over the no deal ‘cliff edge’, and it turns out the cliff was 6 inches high.

  16. Sakara Gold
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Well, I’ve just listened to a fine exposition of the Brexiteer position on BBC R4 by Sir Bernard Jenkins, which definately balanced yesterday’s World at One discusion on trade issues.

    It’s obvious that Macron is the problem during these discussions. A weak president who’s current approval rating is less than 20%, during his watch he has had to deal with his “mouvement des gilets jaunes” protesters – who see him as the president of the rich – constant acts of terrorism by jihadists attempting to start a civil war, an unemployment rate now above 10% and 22% among the French muslim community, an endless series of wars in french africa and now he is subjected to appalling insults from Turkey’s dictator Erdogan.

    With elections for a possible second term due in 18 months, Macron domesticaly wishes to be seen as tough on the British, which appeals to those of a Gaulist persuasion and as defending his northern fishing communities.

    My view is that regardless of his current posturing during the discussions, Macron is a looser who will be easily defeated at the election. The French threat of veto is countered by our threat to leave with no deal.

    The stakes could not be higher – my guess is some sort of compromise will eventually be agreed. Fortunately, before the current lockdown I restocked the freezer – and I await developments with interest.

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

      Sakara, We cannot “compromise” on our sovereignty, it’s not an option.

    • rose
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

      As I understand him from his own words, President Macron wants us to leave without an FTA so that the EU can then wage economic warfare against us and bring us pleading to the table next year.

      • Pominoz
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

        rose,

        But masses of people within the UK will place a personal embargo on the purchase of EU goods – many have probably already done s.

        • Fred H
          Posted December 8, 2020 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

          yep – it started a few years ago and is gathering pace… However we’d love to resume buying from Australia.

  17. ian@Barkham
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Good morning Sir John

    When were these talks ever anything to do with trade? – Never, its just about Control, removing possible competition, punishment and ensuring no one else defies Brussels.

    • bill brown
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

      Ian@barkham

      Ian, you must have been in the room as you seem so well informed

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

        The EU is demanding they control our laws, our courts, our money and our fish. How is that about trading?

  18. ian@Barkham
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    As you say Sir John – the miss information from Project Fear just keeps coming. Its becoming like the Monty Python sketch on ‘spam’.

  19. Nivek
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    “We should only negotiate a deal if it is clearly better than No Deal.”

    Less than three years from the 2017 general election, we went from a Conservative assurance that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, to being presented with a “vassal state” deal, “95%” of which was subsequently ratified (as the Withdrawal Agreement). This was followed just two months later by the implementation of, in Steve Baker’s words, a “dystopian society”.

    Have you had enough of voting Conservative yet?

    • Fred H
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

      You get the worst sort of mixture , selected from the really bad aspects of Labour, Lib-Lab, Communism, the funny nonsense from Raving Monster, and the lets all walk to work Greens, with a lunch of grass, tomatoes and an apple, wearing loincloths and reading by candle-light once the sun goes down.

      • glen cullen
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

        That’s unfair I am considering vote for the monster raving loony party at the next general election – I might even stand as a candidate just to poke fun at Labour and Tory and the Greens

        • steve
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

          glen

          You got your first vote.

        • Fred H
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

          I shall expect appropriate attire!

  20. Everhopeful
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Good grief!
    Do they HONESTLY think that after the pantomime, charade, lies, deception, fakery, trickery on show these past 4 years we can’t see them all in plain sight for the charlatans they are?
    If LEAVE had been what they wanted they would have left.
    Walked out, gone, quitted.
    What do people who wantonly destroy a country, its economy and its people care about a trade deal?
    Tell me that.

  21. Arthur Wrightiss
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    If there is a deal, and if that deal is a wholesale betrayal of the 2016 democratic referendum by duplicitous politicians then the Conservative Party will lose the next election.

    • steve
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

      Arthur

      Not only will they lose the next election, they’ll have to disband as a political party.

      Moreover wholesale betrayal is not necessary, one concession on fishing, Northern Ireland, and state aid will be the conservative’s lot.

      Johnson, and the conservatives will not be allowed to get away with it.

  22. Lifelogic
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Can someone please tell James Cleverly that if people want to “take the knee” to show support for the surely evil movement “Black Lives Matter” they can do and if people want to boo them when they do so they can do that too.

    It is a free country (or rather it was until recently). They even believed in free speach in Scotland once. If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear and even to offend them. Some people are offended by almost anything after all.

  23. Mike Durrans
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    I agree with all you have said Sir John. I have for a long time not switched on any BBC tv or radio as they insult peoples intelligence. I will always make my own mind up and refuse to be influenced by Marxist left, i went through that stage as young adult , one of those mistakes in life .
    The BBC should go into the market place, its almost there with its subsidiaries, but Its to comfortable with ancient licensing.

    • interested
      Posted December 8, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      Some bbc radio 4 progs are brilliant. You have to listen to all views /sides to decide yourself what’s right.
      Other outlets like UKC are very good but occasionally weak !

  24. Thames Trader
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Similar on BBC Breakfast TV this morning. Carping on about the effect of tariffs on exports from the UK to the EU without at any time considering the effects of tariffs on imports into the UK from the EU.

    • steve
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

      Thames Trader

      Exactly. They never mention that we can hit back hard with our own tariffs.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

      They are always harping on about the low UK GDP value of fishing is; but never quote what it was in 1974

  25. ian@Barkham
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Obviously thee MsM is about gaining audience to sell advertising space. So the headlines and story threads have nothing to do with news or anything else – just grabbing audience share.

    What they don’t say. A simple illustration, Yes there will be tariffs on German Car imports. Does that mean the prices will rise to the UK consumer? Traditionally car prices are tweaked according to the market and the price is just pitched at what the manufacturer can get away with. It has nothing to do with the actual cost or tariffs themselves. In parts of the world with high taxes you still finish up with more or less the same retail price with all tax paid.

    Then you get the irony a BMW 3 series for the UK market is manufactured in South Africa. Last I heard South Africa wasn’t in the EU. A Volvo is a Chinese Car

    There are similar illustration everywhere.

    When there are tariffs prices are adjusted to stay competitive and retain market share. It hampers our exporters to the same degree they will have to adjust or go in a different direction. Although the numbers appear large what we do trade with the EU is small, according to the EU’s own figures the total value in GDP terms of trade from the UK to the EU is 7.9%. Is all that trade going to stop?

    The stories that abound are beyond realism, with a ‘Clean Break’ the UK back in control independent and sovereign we will prosper. Perspective, if we don’t, one hell of a lot of MP’s are going to get a kicking and be looking for a new job. That’s the point if its not working we get to change the management – in the EU or being a colony of the EU we don’t.

    Although there is a sneaking suspicion that is why there are so many remainers in the HoC, they will be expose and have to work instead exposing how inept they are. A cushy job rubber stamping orders from above.

  26. ChrisS
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    It is hard to see where this is all going with the mercurial Macron seemingly dictating terms to his fellow countryman, Barnier.
    The announcement that a deal on fishing is now very close was immediately dismissed by the UK side. Their latest idea of a five to seven-year transition for fishing with the final result being maybe only 50-60% for UK fishermen is a non-starter and they know it.

    Then we come to the so-called level playing field. The concept that we could be forced to implement every change in industrial policy thought up by Brussels, in order to avoid “lighting Tariffs” is ridiculous. No self-respecting independent country would sign up to it.

    Brussels is playing its usual game of blackmailing and bullying a partner into submission.
    The only difference is that this time we don’t have the terminally weak Mrs May in charge and as a result, it won’t work. I hope !

    • steve
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

      ChrisS

      “The only difference is that this time we don’t have the terminally weak Mrs May in charge”

      ==============

      Instead we have Puff & Bluster Boris Johnson. What we do not have is someone with the guts to bang Macron to rights & tell the EU to sling their hook.

  27. Tabulazero
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    “that the EU like the UK is a member of the WTO and has to follow WTO rules”

    This also means that the UK need to have a working border infrastructure, lest it give preferential treatment to EU goods which is not allowed under WTO rules.

    The EU and the UK both need functioning borders if they do not want to be sued by other WTO members.

    • Edward2
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

      We have a working border infrastructure now.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

        Does it include portaloos?

        You are definitely going to need those

        • Edward2
          Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:50 am | Permalink

          Is that your best response?
          Pathetic.

  28. Tabulazero
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    “The EU will also note that their citizens and companies need those products we are selling and will take a dim view if they are impeded in getting them on time.”

    I guess I need to stock up on Marmite before year-end then… wait… I do not need to do that… the stuff is foul anyway.

    • SM
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

      Marmite was invented by a German, and is made by the Anglo-Dutch company Unilever. What’s your problem?

  29. ukretired123
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    As you accurately forecast Sir John the EU do not understand us and why Britain is unique and so different. They are still way behind the curve in their thinking. While the Berlin wall fell Brussels was building one to replace it instead!
    Even the SNP have the same thinking. After Andrew Neil’s point on Indyref2 “Banana republic with no bananas” it will be a case of Save our Bananas ! Sob.

  30. Richard1
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    The EU has missed a trick by excluding financial services from the deal. Had they done so the U.K. govt would be bending over backwards to get a deal. As it is I suspect the govt are unfazed by adding tariffs quotas and perhaps other general nuisance to VAT excise currency and other controls in the trade in goods where the U.K. runs a £100bn deficit with the EU.

    • Andy
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

      Tariffs end up being paid by the consumer. That’s you.

      • Richard1
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

        Of course. it would be better to have free trade. everywhere. unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be possible in the case of the EU.

        you do not need political union to have free trade.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        And those tariffs used to be (still are!) given to the EU.

      • Edward2
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

        Importers pay tariffs.
        Or they agree DDP arrangements.
        This is delivery duty paid ie the exporter pays the tariff.
        Most tariffs are single percentages and currency values and general world trade prices and transportation costs can move more over time.
        And pricing is very competitive. There is always another company somewhere in the world willing to supply you if your existing supplier increases their prices.
        It is plain you have never imported nor exported Andy.

  31. beresford
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    The most bizarre people are those Remainers who want us to give our fisheries to the EU in return for nothing. As if such a gesture would be rewarded with gratitude, as wasn’t the case with all the other things we have given them,…..

  32. A.Sedgwick
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    The financing of the BBC is totalitarian. The Government could have decriminalised non payment in a week but it only rushes through legislation to their agenda. Scottish law forbids it. It clogs up magistrates courts – 10% of all cases.

    Being required to have a licence to watch any live TV has similarities with the French demanding total access to our seas.

  33. glen cullen
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    After 4.5yrs its 50/50 now thats a disgrace

    But a bigger disgrace is that the final decision will come from just one person the PM, not the people, not the referendum, not parliament – just Boris

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

      Boris Johnson is being watched very very closely by Leaves. There is little trust in him, in the Remain establishment, or in MPs. Any agreement will be legally analysed, and it will be all over the internet within 24 hours.

    • Dennis
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

      Yes, ‘- just Boris’. Frightening and stupid. But doesn’t the cabinet have to have a majority vote? With a more than 75% margin I would hope.

  34. rose
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Gordon Brown was the best example of this fear mongering when he threatened us with a trade war against the US if we don’t sign a bad deal with the EU.

    • rose
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      Sorry, not a trade war, “an economic war”!

      • rose
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

        If we come out without an FTA, do we get Northern Ireland back? If not, why not?

  35. bill brown
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Sir JR

    negotiations are on-going and actually we are told very little about the various issues at this late stage.
    But you have already concluded that no deal is better than a potential deal we know very little about.

    This is about as trust worthy prediction as Trump saying he has won the election, meaning more fake news..

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

      Bill, In fact no deal is the best deal anyway – at least we get our independence with no further hassle from the mad EU.

  36. Pete
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Every major problem we currently face is caused completely and totally by government. If any business was run like this country it would have gone bankrupt a century ago. We were dragged into the EU by government lies, we have been kept in it by government lies and now, years later, we’re still negotiating when we are supposed to have left. The economy is wrecked, by the government. Illegal invaders are coming across a sea that managed to keep Napoleon and Hitler away but government is, allegedly, unable to stop them. It is quite capable of locking us up for a virus that they admitted back in March (on their own website) was not a high consequence disease however.
    What depresses me more than anything is that people still believe that the morons and criminals that put us in this situation are going to, somehow, get their act together and save us. An advanced case of Stockholm Syndrome appears to grip a large portion of the populace. This is fortunate for politicians because if that changed they would be running for their lives.

  37. Dave Andrews
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    A level playing field is a sticking point for the EU, worried about UK giving state aid.
    Is this a joke? The UK record for state aid is really small, only half of what it is for France and less than a third of what it is for Germany.
    This is all deceit. When the EU talks about rules, they are referring to the power of the Commission to exercise discretion. There are barely any written rules at all.

  38. Bitterend
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    We don’t know what the deal is yet- at least I don’t know- but knowing about the import export game going back over sixty years either way deal or no deal we are entering a dark place. Ro-Ro as we know it will finish and producers will be forced to go to containers- JIT will be a thing of the past and this will be only the start. In other words bring in the IMB with the clauses reneging on the WA and all goodwill and trust will go out the window. The French will find a way to close off Calais port and that will be that- Dover will remain open but where will the ferries go to to offload onload. As I say a dark place that could last for many years- England has very few friends left in the world and very few that will want to trade- and to think it all started with the Farage series of performances in the EU parliament- can’t take them anywhere- can’t behave!

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

      JIT is a concept and logistic tool, it is elastic and flexible along the entire supply or logistic chain; the only thing that’s fixed is the end time/date of delivery – that delivery time/date doesn’t have to change because of brexit

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

      What a load of fabricated tosh, Bitterend, just an emotional wail, entirely devoid of facts.

  39. Christine
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    The BBC isn’t fit for purpose. All we hear is talk of reform but nothing ever changes which seems to be a common theme with this Government. I no longer listen to the news on the mainstream media as it always makes me feel annoyed at the bias. As you can see by the reaction of the Millwall fans, many people in this country are not happy with being force-fed these woke ideas. Now they have taken over our comedy with the Vicar of Dibley promoting BLM. How have our politicians allowed our country to be hijacked? Momentum will build for a new political party because none of the current bunch represents the majority of people in this country. Bring it on. The fight post Brexit is only just starting.

    • Andy
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

      Maybe broadcast news – which is legally obliged to be unbiased – is, in fact, unbiased. And maybe you are not unbiased. Just a thought.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

        No one is unbiased, Andy, it’s not humanly possible. That applies to the BBC as much as it does to me – and you. Only God is unbiased.

  40. Stred
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    It would take the wind out of the EU’s sails if the government printed application forms for fishing in UK waters and instructions on how to comply with UK fishing regulations, deliver the forms to French and other countries fishing ports and advertise the fact that they can continue to fish if they pay for the privilege. Why hasn’t the government done this already?

  41. BJC
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    The tried and tested independent terms of WTO trading sets the minimum standard. All the EU needed to do was offer something more attractive, but it’s never been about trade, it’s always been about saving a 20th century project from the demands of the 21st century.

    Having fundamentally opposing objectives was always going to be a recipe for disharmony, of course, but despite the electorate unequivocally demanding divergence from the EU, it’s clear our representatives are still bending over backwards to collude with the EU to keep us tied to a past we’ve rejected. I’ve presumed it’s because the IMB has still not been settled, but it doesn’t explain the endless concessions that threaten our sovereignty.

  42. Mainstreet
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    As I understand when importing from the EU, no VAT is charged or paid until the item is sold. The transaction is recorded, quarterly on Intrastat using commodity codes and value as the EU gets a cut of the VAT contribution which is why they will not allow reductions in the amount of VAT charged on women’s hygiene products or domestic fuel. No import duties apply.

    When importing from non-EU countries Customs Duty and VAT are charged at the border but most logistics/shipping companies and importers employ a VAT and duty Deferment Account with HMRC so that there are not loads of people running to the customs house with bags full of money

    • Fred H
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

      music to Andy’s ears since he regularly praises a possible price cut in female hygeine products. So it is the EU keeping the cost up!

  43. MWB
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    I’ve givien up on BBC. They will never change. I have also ditched the TV licence, filling out form on their taxation web site. There is hardly anthing to watch these days, unless you like so called talent shows, dancing or WOKE rubbish. I will use my media streaming device when I get it soon, named after a large river in South America.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

      I only watch streamed content via my Amazon Firestick. It works perfectly and not one penny of my hard earned goes to the BBC and Zoe Ball’s £1.3 million pound salary for talking between records.

      It is also good for the health of my television. Previously, before I forsook the BBC, I used to have to stop myself from booting my boot through the screen when Marr or Maitless were on. No such problems now. Blood pressure down too! It’s a win-win!

      • Dennis
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

        The law says you need to be covered by a TV Licence to:

        watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV, on any channel
        watch or stream programmes live on an online TV service (such as ITV Hub, All 4, YouTube, Amazon Prime Video, Now TV, Sky Go, etc.)
        download or watch any BBC programmes on iPlayer.
        This applies to any device you use, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.

        Doesn’t this mean you have to pay to the BBC? It covers streamed content and even if not ‘live’ it says ‘watch programmes as they’re being shown on TV’ – seems to cover everything, no?

        • MWB
          Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:54 am | Permalink

          No, the so called law says a licence is required for watching LIVE programmes, but they hope that people won’r see the word LIVE.

          • Fred H
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

            but most of the broadcasts are pre-recorded on all channels. How does that work with the need for a LIVE licence?

  44. None of the Above
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    I agree Sir John, the EU plan is far, far worse as it involves a surrender of our Sovereignty.
    I am not a lawyer but common sense and logic suggests that the UK has strong grounds to repudiate the Withdrawal Agreement in accordance with the Vienna convention on treaties.
    I hope that this is done and then quickly followed by the repeal of the European Union (Withdrawal agreement) Act 2020.

    I look forward to 2021, with all this nonsense behind us, and the eventual eradication/long term suppression of Covid 19.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

      +1

  45. Howard
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    As you say EU products will switch over to the tried and trusted methods used by non EU countries to trade which means of course goods sent by coñtainer ship via Felixstowe say or by bulk carrier with all of the implications for delay hold up. Will have to be because Calais will become a pinch point bottleneck I have no doubt

  46. Keith
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Lookin at it as an outsider- brexit is over the question is do you want a deal yes or no- maybe not this year? maybe some time in the future? Australia has been holding negotiationd for a FTA since 2017 and talks are already in round nine- it took Canada seven years to complete a deal so it’s up to you to ask for what you want

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      Keith, you’re embarrassing yourself.

  47. Richard
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    As usual, Mr Redwood, you habitually take a complicated situation and render it simplistic by omission of crucial detail. The situation you describe relates to existing systems designed to deal with the current trading arrangements. You assume the capacity exists to carry on as usual despite significant imminent changes. If so, why are the Government spending huge sums on lorry parks, additional border security, customs agents, yet to be proven to work IT systems, etc? The Daily Telegraph referred to 231 million additional customs declarations needed each year. Are you seriously suggesting this is no problem for existing resources? Mr Gove has admitted there are going to be problems including miles of stationary lorries. Are you saying that the RHA, who do know a thing or two about transport, are just moaning about nothing? You have to do much better than try and blame it all on Remainers. That is irrelevant. We are beyond that stage and now facing the harsh reality of considerable disruption and serious damage to business and jobs. Put simply, it is due to incompetence that your government has failed to make timely prepvarations.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

      Only 16% of UK companies export to the EU and those are multi/ international companies that have vast experience dealing with other trading nations outside the EU, those companies are pumping out smoke with mirrors because its was advantageous to them to remain ….

    • Grey Friar
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

      Well said. The Brexit promised in 2016 – we hold all the cards, keep frictionless trade, no need to comply with any EU rules – was never realistic. That is why we are in a pickle now. It would help if Brexiters were honest about having won the referendum with a set of undeliverable promises

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

        Grey Friar, It would help if Remains were honest about having lost the referendum with a set of undeliverable promises. And thankful about it no doubt. What I was promised was the UK no longer being controlled by the EU. I’m still waiting – because Remains still haven’t accepted the result.

        • Richard Clark
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

          It doesn’t matter whether you voted voted Remain or Leave. It’s a matter of where we are with reality. The point I make is that instead of smarmy glossing over the “sunlit uplands” (sic) of Brexit people need to understand and accept that there are going to be some very difficult practical consequences of leaving the EU. It is inevitable these consequences will have a detrimental impact on jobs, wealth creation, government revenues, etc.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:52 am | Permalink

            And other consequences will have a beneficial effect.

          • NickC
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 11:44 am | Permalink

            Richard Clark, The reality is there is a whole world out there which is not in the EU. All we voted for was to join it.

  48. Tabulazero
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Will you personally thank President Macron for being instrumental in delivering the no-deal Brexit you always wanted by rejecting the UK’s spurious demands during the negotiations?

    • Know-Dice
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

      Macron is running scared of the French Fisher People and what they will do if they lose there access to UK waters

      • Know-Dice
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

        Their… Doh

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

      Too right. Whatever honours we conferred on De Gaulle, we’ll double them for Macron. Fair play to him. Playing right into our hands. No matter what they do, nothing will ever alter that fact that twice in the 20th century we had to rescue France after invasion by Germany. Fair play to our dads. Mind you, as my dad once said ‘why did we bloody bother?’

      • Fred H
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

        he said it only once? Most of that generation said it regularly.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

        “We”.

        Hilarious, just hilarious.

        • Edward2
          Posted December 8, 2020 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

          You have to admit it Martin, that Macron’s veto might inadvertently bring about the no deal that would get us out of the EU.

    • rose
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

      France is the only nationalist country left in Western Europe. The President’s demands are nothing to do with anything we may have asked for – just a simple FTA like the ones Canada and Japan have.

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

      Tabulazero, The UK is not making spurious demands of the EU, it is the other way round. The UK is simply stating the rights of an independent nation. It is the EU demanding to rule us, and trying to make us obey EU courts, and demanding a bribe, and demanding they steal our fish.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

        If you do not like the terms, you are absolutely free to walk away.

        However, you do not get to decide what the EU is willing to offer you or not

        • NickC
          Posted December 8, 2020 at 11:48 am | Permalink

          Tabulazero, And I have been publicly advocating that we should just walk away since at least 2013. Precisely because I knew that the EU would be (is!) hostile – it is the only thing which keeps the EU in power.

  49. Tony Sharp
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Sir John,
    My heart sinks when I hear this claptrap peddled time and again over the last four and a half years. No matter how one explains in detail that thee arguments around WTO betters EU-Deal (which has never been offered, only a form of associate candidate status) these ‘commentators’, repeat the same stuff.
    I concluded six months after the referendum when still dealing with these points on blogs that the ‘believers ‘ fell into two categories of RemaINiacs: a) those who had a real financial interest from EU sources as lobbyists, or b) those who had never been involved in trade and had never seen a manifest or modern bill of lading and chose to believe in ‘cliff edges’ and ‘queues at Dover and Calais

    • John O'Leary
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

      I don’t believe there will be “cliff edges and queues” at UK ports because I think unfortunately lthe EU will find alternative suppliers more willing to adhere to their regulations very quickly.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

        John, This is not about UK businesses adhering to EU regulations for products sold into the EU market, it is about the EU demanding to continue ruling us and stealing our fish.

        • John O'Leary
          Posted December 9, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

          I beg to differ. When I say “adhere to their regulations” I imply adherence toall Single Market rules, including LPF and FoM and oversight by the ECJ.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

        why haven’t they ended negotiations with us years ago then?

        • John O'Leary
          Posted December 9, 2020 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

          Errm, I think because they expected the UK to fold.

  50. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, I concur that no deal is much better than a bad deal.

    I assume you and most others on this board agree that a wide ranging free trade deal, that is just that, is preferential to no deal.

    This should have been the easiest deal to do in history as Liam Fox suggested it might be. We have similar standards and all we want to do is to be able to sell into their market and have them sell into ours. Goods and services supplied across borders will need to comply with the standards in place across the border.

    On the three sticking points:
    Fish: Fish is an existing arrangement (however unfairly it became such an arrangement) so it is reasonable the the EU is reluctant to give it up. Give it up they must over time but we don’t have the capacity at present to fish the whole area so a fair ratchet deal which eventually returns all our waters to us over 5 or 10 years allows us to build our capacity and allows the EU to adapt over time.

    ECJ – It seems reasonable to me that the laws that cover the standards in an area are arbitered by the court of that area. So the ECJ has supremacy over supplies to the EU but our Supreme Courts has supremacy over supplies to the UK and Northern Island. Any EU citizen living in UK must only be subject to UK rules and judgement.

    Level playing field – The EU needs to recognise that it has never been a level playing field, the way we gold plate regulations gives us an inherent disadvantage over other countries who are less strict or even disregard regulations. Any free trade agreement has anti dumping regulations and penalties written into it, why should this be different? Tariffs can be applied where dumping is suspected and ruled on by WTO like any other dumping claims.

    I realise the above is simplistic but agreements often are. No tariffs, you can have some fish for a period, each side can rule on its own territory and anti dumping measures.

  51. Disillusioned
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Dear John

    I’m afraid that we’re not going to get the BREXIT we all voted for- to become an independent, sovereign nation and to reclaim – rightfully our fishing waters. It looks pretty clear that Boris is going to capitulate to the rotten EU. Why oh why can our leaders not stand up for our country and regain some pride and dignity and self belief as a nation. I’m totally fed up with our leaders making the UK looking weak and feeble to the rest of the world. I will cancel my conservative membership ASAP if Boris capitulates.

    • james
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

      what you voted for was a pipe dream with Govey and a red bus- it was never to be the world has moved on so much only the old people in the old folks homes remember the 1950s time to move on

  52. Norman
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    I love that first sentence Sir John – you are not alone in that sense of mortification! A healthy cynicism at the office kept us in good, sane humour – now they are probably all working from home. Even the chickens are now in lockdown, and the turkeys will not have much of a say, either!

  53. James1
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Whilst I believe much the majority would prefer that a ‘deal’ is agreed with the EU, I feel that leaving on WTO terms would serve as a salutary lesson to them, and galvanise us to show them in no uncertain terms where the can put their level playing field

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

      If we leave with no deal, Britain will rise at least 20′ higher above sea level, and the playing field will no longer be level. Being uphill, we will have the export advantage and we won’t be flooded with cheap imports.

      • glen cullen
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

        Mike Wilson, I thought that the Moon was going to crash into the Atlantic ocean if we left with no deal. At least that’s what Remains seemed to be predicting.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

          Tripe.

          The consensus was that it would be a steady, grinding decline.

          • Fred H
            Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

            concensus of one ! – You!

          • NickC
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

            A joke, Martin!

    • Andy
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

      WTO will indeed be a lesson. But not for them.

      • NickC
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

        All our export and import trade is subject to WTO rules already, Andy. Including EU, and intra-EU, trade. So we already know the WTO lesson. I thought you knew that?

  54. Stred
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    If they really want a level playing field, let’s agree to the UK supplying industry with cheap electricity from coal fired power stations like Germany, Poland and Holland.

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

      Stred, The EU doesn’t want a level playing field, it wants a playing field controlled by the EU.

  55. Wokinghamite
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    If the deal which the EU offers us is worse than No Deal, then we must assume the government will reject it. It is hard for the man in the street to understand exactly what is going on at present. We must trust our negotiators. There must be plenty of scope for improving on No Deal, so let us hope that is what happens. Very little can now be lost in continuing the talks, and their lifetime is limited anyway. Plenty of politicians have said we can live with WTO terms, so, presumably, that would be OK, too. A good deal would be the icing on the cake.

  56. villaking
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, you post about the post Brexit transition period so often it’s as if you have some concerns about it. You seem to have forgotten that parliament cannot prevent a no deal, that is the legal default in 3 weeks’ time. In addition, should Johnson choose to agree a deal it will be exactly the sort of deal he accepts, your party has an 80 seat majority so it will go through parliament thanks to your party whips. Everything is in your leader’s power, there is no Remain parliament or phantom Remain establishment with the power to prevent Johnson from getting whatever outcome he wants. Why are you concerned?

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

      Villaking, Don’t be silly – a PM does not do this sort of thing on his own, it’s not a child’s playground pastime. Lots of people, particularly civil servants (Remain civil servants) are involved. It is plain: the UK establishment does not believe in itself, does not believe in this country, has no principled opposition to ditching our sovereignty, and does not believe in us. That’s why we are three weeks from supposedly leaving and still whining about a deal.

      • glen cullen
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

        Agree

  57. mancunius
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    The Government has announced this afternoon that “If the solutions being considered in those discussions are agreed, the UK Government would be prepared to remove clause 44 of the UK Internal Market Bill, concerning export declarations…The UK Government would also be prepared to deactivate clauses 45 and 47, concerning state aid, such that they could be used only when consistent with the United Kingdom’s rights and obligations under international law.”

    But any conceivable use of the UK state aid that is so vitally needed to enliven different sectors that have become either EU-dependent or moribund during our sojourn in the EU is already consistent with international law. So either this is a meaningless guarantee, or the UK is giving away a crucial advantage in perpetuity – which cannot stand.

    Sir John, you should interrogate the government closely on this.

    • james
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

      Ah you guys are bunched by introducing the IMB and reneging on the the clauses that affect the WA just makes it that much worse. The whole world knows Perfidious A

  58. bill brown
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Sir JR

    The negotiations are on-going and you must be very well informed as you are sure that no del is better than the deal which is being discussed?

    You are etiher much better informed than all of us or you a just making a guesstimate, based on you own points of view, a bit like fake news.

    So,which one is it?

    Reply The wishes of the EU are all over the press!

    • NickC
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

      Bill, A no deal always was better for us.

      • bill brown
        Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

        NickC

        I disagree

    • bill brown
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      Sir JR,
      Thank you for your reply

      The wishes are very general and do not give a full picture of what final deal could look like.
      I think your conclusions are pre-mature and heavily biased.

      • Edward2
        Posted December 7, 2020 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

        Do you not even believe the press releases made by the EU negotiating team and the statements made by European national leaders?

        • bill brown
          Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

          Edward2

          Let us wait and see

          • Edward2
            Posted December 8, 2020 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

            As Keynes once said
            In the long run.
            We are all dead

  59. Petal
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Boris Johnson has given an ”olive branch” to the EU. Is this the beginning of a cave in?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/07/brexit-news-latest-no-deal-eu-talks-update-fishing/

  60. Dennis
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    ‘….the EU like the UK is a member of the WTO and has to follow WTO rules ..’

    When the BSE crisis was over and UK beef was OK, exports to the EU were blocked for 3 years or so. Was that OK in the WTO rules? Could be, just asking.

    Was beef stopped to other countries at that time?

    • james
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

      The EU doesn’t have to follow anyones rules- it is so large and powerful it can make its own so get real- the WTO doesn’t even have a leader in place

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 8, 2020 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

      The European Union banned British beef for ten years.

      On the other hand the US has only just lifted its ban on UK beef, after twenty-three years.

      • Fred H
        Posted December 8, 2020 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

        there you have it – protectionism at first hand.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted December 9, 2020 at 9:15 am | Permalink

          Who the blazes could blame them in this instance?

  61. Pieter
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Stupid people if you think that you can get leverage at such hiģh level talks by threatening to break an International treaty already made and signed off. However English people mostly nice people but with terrible political leaders and bloody awful negotiators. Time for you guys to get real- we all have considerations for sovereignty in our own respective countries’ this is 2021 almost

  62. ian@Barkham
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Practical common sense, yes I agree most of the political class are a bit short in that department.

    However, the math of trade and tariffs situation shows that when it comes to the tariff trade off there would be additional income handed to the exchequer. The chancellor could subsidies UK exports to the EU to the value of any tariff imposed and still have a surplus to pay down the debts that Corvid has created.

    A big bonus because of the deficit the UK runs with the EU. The ‘Clean Break’ reward

    The reason the EU is playing these games and want control of the UK is the longer they can drag things out the more commercial damage they do.

    • bill brown
      Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      Edward2

      Let us wait and see

    • bill brown
      Posted December 8, 2020 at 7:25 am | Permalink

      Ian@barkham

      I think you should read your nonsense once more. “the more commercial damage they do”
      if, the want to continue trading thay would want a sucessful UK. so not this is just fake news

  63. Blazes
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Of course the main reason the army is out helping with the vaccinations is to get the public used to seeing them on the streets. The real reason they are there is in case of massive public protest against whatever is agree in the trade talks- however since we are already in lockdown mode just another word for curfew so you see. Clever but not that clever

  64. Dee
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Please ask Boris to walk away. The only way he can get a deal is to renege on his promises to Brexiteers. it should be obvious by the ludicrous offers bandied about by Barnier that he is pushing Boris to walk away. Don’t play his games, walk away, the whole World has seen how despicable the eu have been in their dealings with us and nobody is going to blame you, they probably wonder why you haven’t done it sooner. My nerves are frazzled with your dithering and delays and I am sure I am not alone. No more time wasting, no more money wasting, Brexiteers are shouting for WTO and have been for 4 1\2 years, please listen to us.

  65. Sea_Warrior
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, please pay special attention to any exit clauses in the final agreement. We mustn’t be locked into a bad arrangement.

  66. George Brooks.
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Have just ‘clicked’ on to Independent and the news that Mancunius posted at 1626.

    This is exactly what we are scared of with Boris. Nothing has been mentioned on what he expects back from the EU for this climb-down. Has he given away our insurance policy which we certainly need with that bunch of snakes.

    We started in January asking for a Canada style deal and here we are eleven and half months later still explaining we will control our waters etc and they still insisting we staying under their laws and the ECJ

    Or has Boris been very clever and nailed the blame for the failure of the negotiations well and truly to the EU mast and we can now walk away and get on building this country back up to it’s rightful place in the world

  67. steve
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    JR

    Well this is what happens when you listen to the BBC !

    It’s a remain / anti-English propaganda machine which Boris Johnson promised to disable, but didn’t.

    As for the so-called talks, Johnson should just walk away, like he said he’d do on Oct 15t. Now there’s suggestion of these talks going on through Wednesday, yet today was supposed to be the last roll of the dice.

    Seems to me Johnson is either gutless or …shall we say: not as patriotic as we would like. Maybe both.

    He’ll get what’s coming at the next election, or sooner.

    If you would like your party to survive at all, we need to see a bloody EU nose pretty damn quick otherwise you’re all out for good.

  68. ChrisS
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Looking and listening to the news streams between five and six pm, it appears that Barnier is now offering a classic Brussels fudge over the level playing field.

    In other words, we will still be tied to their rules and regulations but it won’t be automatic that they will take action against us if we don’t mirror future changes in their environmental, worker’s rights and other industrial policy.

    This would never be good enough because, inevitably, Brussels, pushed on by France, will take the most aggressive possible attitude to bring us back into line, under threat of a suspension of free trade which would mean the introduction of lightning tariffs.

    Any kind of fudge must be rejected out of hand.

  69. glen cullen
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    In other news illegal migrants with their children continue to cross the channel today – BBC

    Didn’t we just give the French an additional £28m

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

      Cheaper if we gave each illegal immigrant £10k to stay in France

  70. ukretired123
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    “Dense Fog”
    seems to have originated in Brussels over 5 years and now materialised as tangible proof.

  71. glen cullen
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Boris = Wet Fish

    ….its now continuing in Brussels for a whole week

    • Fred H
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

      or possibly wet lettuce. Where have I heard that before?

  72. Fred H
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Conditions for finalising a post-Brexit trade deal between the UK and EU are still “not there”, the two sides have said in a statement.
    It follows a phone call between Boris Johnson and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. “We asked our chief negotiators and their teams to prepare an overview of the remaining differences,” the joint statement said.
    The UK PM is expected to go to Brussels to discuss whether a deal can be done.

    How many times can we have a ‘No agreement was possible’ outcome. Enough! Stop this nonsense.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

      You couldn’t make it up

  73. Freeborn John
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    Boris Johnson is making a great mistake going to Brussels. They want to send him packing like Theresa May at Salzburg. He should have insisted the EU Commission President show intent by coming to London.

    • glen cullen
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

      Smoke and mirrors so that side deals can be achieved behind everyone’s back

      Boris will fly back waving a letter of agreement

    • Tabulazero
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

      Beggars cannot be choosers

      • glen cullen
        Posted December 8, 2020 at 9:55 am | Permalink

        So you’re saying that the UK are the ‘beggars’

        You maybe correct with Boris

  74. malachi
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Just listening to Peter Bone on Ch4 he says that Boris is going over Thursday to see what can be done with charm … Jeez

    again if UK Keeps that IMB with the reneging clauses intact then UK is going nowhere- the EU Parliament will see to that

    The EU is not some African backwater that can be bamboozled and pushed aside like the old days. Up to you

  75. Fernando Ferreira
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Dear Sir John,

    I’m very pleased with the Full Withdrawal of the EU from the UK that already happened last 31 January.
    The No-Deal cliff-hanger comes from the EU refusing to acknowledge how disavantaged it will be out of the magnificent UK’s Single Market and Customs Union!
    Only the spirited defence of the glorious traditions of Britannia Aeterna by His Majesty’s Boris will achieve the New Blenheim in international trade that the Leave Vote Campaign battled strenuously for four years ago!

    Respectfuly,

    Fernando Ferreira

  76. james
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Why are you calling it the EU’s deal surely it should t be called the UK’s deal?

  77. glen cullen
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Boris weakening the UK Internal Markets Bill to satisfy EU deal

    Compromise all one way

    • ChrisS
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

      No, he hasn’t
      He offered to remove the clauses the EU hate as long as there is a trade deal he can sell at home and the joint committee looking at the Irish border arrangements reach a satisfactory compromise.

      Those same clauses would become redundant at that point anyway.

      • Mark B
        Posted December 8, 2020 at 4:15 am | Permalink

        Why are we expected to compromise on our sovereign territory and yet they are not ?

  78. rose
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Why on earth are our fishing grounds on the table? Northern Ireland should never have been on the table either. And now our own domestic legislation is on the table. Why don’t they put the NHS on the table and have done with it? This is supposed to about a simple trade agreement which we don’t really need anyway.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 8, 2020 at 4:39 am | Permalink

      Who would want to take on the NHS?

      • Fred H
        Posted December 8, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

        not just the monolith NHS but the dozens, hundreds?, of various types of health bodies, boards, organisations. Stuff of nightmare.

      • rose
        Posted December 9, 2020 at 10:59 am | Permalink

        I meant use of the NHS.

  79. rose
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    Are to suppose it was Gove who caved in on the IMB?

    • Caterpillar
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

      Because he has failed to get UK prepared, because Conservatives have again ignored their own deadlines. Four and a half years and the Conservative Govt. still refuses to deliver.

  80. Bryan Harris
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    @

    …..and still Boris will not declare ‘This is the end’ – STILL he goes into the enemy camp for that piece of paper to wave about which will tell us how much we are to surrender

    – all so damned similar to another piece of paper brought home by another capitulating PM: “NO WAR IN OUR TIME”

    Boris has become the opposite of Churchill

    • Caterpillar
      Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

      +1

  81. XY
    Posted December 7, 2020 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Hear, hear.

    However, it is concerning that Johnson is (reportedly) off to Brussels later in the week. It’s difficult to see the point of that – surely we are past the point where a deal can be obtained without ludicrous concessions of our sovereignty. Even on concession from here would be stupid and damaging, both economically and to his party’s electoral prospects.

    People are more politically savvy than they were prior to Brexit. They have watched as politicians, celebrities and “journalists” have tried to thwart it and had an interest in seeing it through, so they have learned much about politics, politicians and their spin and lies. It won’t work any more.

    Oh and… neither will the of gag of changing leader and claiming to be a new party. Any backsliding will see the new parties of Laurence Fox and Farage/Tice merge, then win enough votes to keep the Conservatives out of office and possibly replace them. That should focus the Conservative Party’s collective mind.

  82. Helen Smith
    Posted December 9, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Do not let Boris sell out our fishermen please

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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