We have lost a lot of freedoms during the battle against CV 19.Ā Most have accepted the need to take tough measures to protect those at risk of serious illness and death. Now vaccines supply a way out of the public health imperative it is important we do not come to think some of these controls are acceptable or useful for the future. These were extreme measures which should be temporary.
I never thought I would be living in a country where you needed a reason to leave your house, where you were banned from making trips just for pleasure and where every social contact you wished to make had to be done electronically or under a special dispensation allowed by the regulations.
The government has promised us the way out of lockdown will be data driven. The slow indicative timetable to eventual freedom on June 21 is subject to revision. It is highly likely the data for serious cases admitted to hospital and deaths from CV 19 will continue to fall rapidly as the NHS completes vaccination of most people over 50 and anyone with another worryingĀ medical condition. The government must understand the data is dynamic, and lagged. It needs to respond to the trend and to the vaccination figures, and get on with relaxing the controls.
I do not think it a good idea to make a vaccination certificate an official document that is used to enforce controls on people’s conduct in the UK. Of course if foreign countries want proof of vaccination for people to travel there that is up to them and the potential traveller. We might wish to require vaccination for people coming to the UK, particularly from countries that still have bad attacks of the pandemic or to require quarantine. A more difficult question which the government as employer does need to resolve is should NHS employees have to have the vaccine in order to work in NHS establishments?Ā I am happy with the current policy of advising them to but not enforcing it. It would be quite wrong to make the rest of us have the vaccine in order to go to a shop or theatre if the government isn’t even willing to require vaccination as a condition of employment in exposed state employment.
February 25, 2021
Good morning
Those that are willing to surrender their freedoms for a little comfort, deserve neither.
February 25, 2021
Do they have any choice?
No sensible opposition at all from Labour and the tedious Sir Kier Starmer. Boris now off the rails and seems to be led by the Libdim, alarmist mother of his latest child. We shall see how dire and left wing the Budget is next week.
February 25, 2021
Indeed, he seemed to be applying for Chief Whip of the Conservative Party yesterday – ‘Have a word with them (CRG)’…. You really couldn’t make it up!
zorro
February 25, 2021
I have not been asked to anything that I would not have done of my own free will.
When the threat emerged last year I asked myself what was the *maximum* that I personally could do to prevent the spread of this menace.
I did not wait until I was told, and then grudgingly do the minimum, and not even comply where there was no enforcement.
So I immediately started wearing a mask at all times in public places and kept as far as *possible* from others, not merely two metres, as did everyone in S. Korea, Japan etc. I wore cotton gloves ,which I washed often.
But then, I’m not a Tory.
February 26, 2021
Wow, you see everything through some sort of political lens. That is weird.
February 26, 2021
‘I’m not a Tory’ – – well probably millions during the last 3 Governments would say the same.
But the question remains, what are you?
February 26, 2021
MiC you are too rude, I am a Tory but I took as many protections whilst continuing to work outside my home in the real world where people are having to do mix with ‘this menace’.
Why Martin if we’re all asked not to mix are our doctors, nurses and the most infected amongst us refusing to be vaccinated in big numbers, they expect us to stay locked up because they won’t take the wonder vaccine?
Why aren’t teachers once vaccinated just getting on with the job? The majority of teachers retire at 60. They expect supermarket workers, delivery drivers, bread makers to keep them fed. Once vaccinated even if they catch the virus we’re told it won’t be so severe and should be no worse than a cold.
February 25, 2021
Cliche
February 25, 2021
It’s a cliche for a reason.
February 25, 2021
Mark, it is not a surrender of freedom to save lives including your own by accepting temporary lack of social contact. It is not even crawling into no mans land to rescue the injured. That is what the NHS have been doing. Keep your head down and reduce their risk.
February 25, 2021
Which is why those freedoms must be returned with great urgency.
February 25, 2021
Sure – three weeks to flatten the curve….
zorro
February 25, 2021
Communist governments habitually use wartime vocabulary and imagery, ‘comrade’ Agricola. There is no war here, only a government using wartime measures. What you will notice is that the war never seems to end, nor do the measures. For one who keeps quoting the sacrifice of our forces in two world wars, you seem to have no understanding of the ideals for which they gave their lives.
February 25, 2021
Well they did not sacrifice their lives for you to run around risking the infection of others and the death of 120, 000 plus to date. Just I might add for your selfish self interest. Get your head round the fact that this is a short imposition. Not even government can afford it to go on longer than absolutely necessary. There are much greater challenges to your freedom, abroad in the UK than ever covid can offer. One example for you to consider. The blocking of free speech and the penalising of legitimate opinion at most of our major universities. A form of facism for which many, you sneeringly deride, sacrificed their lives in a shooting war.
March 1, 2021
I’m 60 my farther when he died was 62 my mother 67 grandmother was 67 my uncle was 56.
So I am selfish because I want to live my Life my way
February 25, 2021
Agricola, It is quite definitely a surrender of freedom. That is specifically what the untargeted national lockdowns do. That’s their purpose.
The only issue is whether the loss of freedom is commensurate with the “benefits” – the (supposed) “control” of the covid19 virus, and “saving lives”. But research shows typical covid19 NMIs either don’t work or have negligible effect – no real benefit there.
So the loss of freedom is a Faustian bargain – ‘lose freedom, gain safety’ isn’t actually true. And that’s before factoring in the appalling economic losses, and the mental and physical health problems consequent on the odious lockdown policy.
March 2, 2021
Well said – thank you
February 25, 2021
+1
February 28, 2021
Here here!
February 25, 2021
I’m a Londoner, born and brought up in the East End, then moving to a nearby suburb and often commuting by crowded public transport, for work and pleasure to the City, the West End and Westminster. That covers a total of more than 65yrs. It also means that I was in close proximity to a LOT of people, workers, visitors, international tourists, many of whom might have been either carriers or possible sufferers of communicable diseases – about 20yrs ago, there was considerable concern about the levels of TB prevalent in NE London, although it was carefully hidden from the public. I and millions of others in the same position appear to have largely survived!
Now I live in S Africa, where TB is rife, but when I go shopping or visit a State entity I do not know whether I am close to an infected person when being served or standing in a queue.
My point is that we take risks by mixing with others every day – bringing normal life to a virtual halt for such an extended period is now more dangerous to economies, to interpersonal relationships, and to individuals’ mental wellbeing, in my opinion, than lifting most of the restrictions.
February 25, 2021
Indeed I go skiing and other people ride horses, jump out of aircraft, sail solo, box and even cycle in busy cities. The TB vaccine is reasonably effective though is it not? Plus they have fairly effective treatments.
February 25, 2021
SM
And Iām convinced that not mixing socially weakens our immune system.
February 25, 2021
Indeed it clearly does. And for future generations, such is evolution.
February 25, 2021
Of course it does, and COVID 19 spreads more easily within homes where people tend to be during enforced lockdowns…
zorro
February 25, 2021
I suspect that any political party truly advocating better safeguards for freedom will gain a lot of traction at any forthcoming election but sadly, I am not confident it will be the CP. I am not even confident that they will allow a free and fair election: see how they are banning canvassing while allowing other organisations to drop leaflets at your house.
February 25, 2021
Nigel.
February 25, 2021
I agreed with you but my comment vanished. There’s certainly a market for a price England party.
February 25, 2021
matthu,
Johnsonās government is at best ineffectual and at worst dangerous across a whole number of issues.
A genuinely Conservative party would āgain a lot of tractionā though maybe not enough to form a government. However, it would take votes from Tory party and hopefully hasten itās demise. Johnson definitely needs to go.
Phoenix from the ashes….
February 25, 2021
“The government has promised us the way out of lockdown will be data driven.”
And yet, the Gov, after all this time cannot answer the following question … if a person tests positive for covid, what is the chance that they have covid?
February 25, 2021
āThe government has promised us the way out of lockdown will be data drivenā
But JCVI, Hancock and Zahawi have a vaccine priority order that is clearly not data driven in relation to gender risks. A 60 year old man has the risk as a 65 year old women. They are killing hundreds of extra people, making the vaccine roll out far less effective for a given number of vaccine shots and thus delaying further opening up the economy. So can all these Profs, PhDs and Government Ministers and explain why these extra people (mainly men) must die?
Reply You make the same point every day. The government is not going to differentiate between men and women. No one has taken up your view in Parliament.
February 25, 2021
Good reply. The contributor continues to have zero political emotional intelligence.
February 25, 2021
Nig L – You want hundreds of extra people to die and Ā£ billions wasted in extra delays for the sake of irrational emotional political āfeelingā over logic? Fine you let them all die then?
February 25, 2021
āNo one has taken up your view in Parliamentā indeed, nor at JCVI but why not? Rather a damning inditement of the character and ability of most MPs. If hundred of men were on a burning building and could be rescued very easily, at no cost by the mere the stoke of a pen would they not rescue them?
What is the difference?
February 25, 2021
The only cost would be that JCVI, Hancock and Zahawi would have to admit they got it wrong and for this reason hundreds must die it seems.
I will mention it no more may these victims rest in peace.
February 25, 2021
I see your point but it probably fails logistically. The cost/benefit is probably too low for what is pretty a marginal effect.
It’s the counting we must change in order to get out back to normal as quickly as possible.
If the admissions and death rates fall like a stone then we must ignore the infection rate as a measure for keeping us in lockdown. The vaccine will have decoupled the infection rate from hospitalisation rate/death rates and done its job.
Do those now high on temporary power wanting to make it permanent even want to see that it’s done its job ?
February 25, 2021
@ No longer Anon.
It is not actually marginal at all. It would make roll out nearly 20% more effective initially and saves hundreds of lives and thousands of admissions. Where is the cost? It saves billions, so a huge negative cost. You just vaccinate men 5 years younger than women. You can then open up businesses about 2 weeks earlier too – saving even more Ā£ billions.
These extra death will all be very identifiable too. Any man who dies of Covid when, had the vaccine order not been gender discriminatory he would already have had the vaccine in time. A class action to follow perhaps? Not that I would give it much chance given the make up of the supreme court judges currently.
February 25, 2021
LL,
Some guesses:
(i) Female life expectancy tends to be longer so more QALYs saved
(ii) Potential gender equality issues (remember all those car insurance arguments)
(iii) Perhaps some of the males most at risk are picked up early due to more common underlying conditions
(iv) Correlations between workplace risk, socioeconomics status, age and gender
(v) Some people don’t like the politics of need (individuals become groups, groups become represented …)
(vi) Because of the issues above it was just easier to get on with it (given the rapidly declining covid risk having vaccinated the over 70s and 80s)
February 25, 2021
Thanks, some valid points I agree. But I do not think sufficient to justify all these extra pointless deaths. Relatives will know who the victims are too. Any male who died or dies of Covid shortly before he was to receive the vaccine can be almost certainly blame it on this blatant anti-male discrimination on vaccines priority.
Gender neutral annuities, life cover and car insurance premiums are totally idiotic too. Was this not an EU demand. It should be changed back.
February 26, 2021
Caterpillar, thank you for your information. We donāt know all the facts on the deaths from covid. We are told obesity was a big problem and diabetes type 2 from diet causes – I wonder what the difference between male and female deaths were in this regard – and should women be held back from the vaccine if they live healthier lives and take less risks just to jab men who want to ignore risks and diet? My husband doesnāt think they should discriminate for men.
We are told the average age of death was 82 so most people werenāt working. What Iām not sure of is the age of people getting treatment, had they been in the UK the whole of last year, had they received visitors from abroad, how many under retirement age caught it from hospital visits for other treatment or from family members who work in healthcare. There are just too many unknowns for Lifelogic to be so sure. I remember he was convinced we needed thousands of ventilators he never gave up on the subject but it became evident it wasnāt that important. We had all of this people will die unnecessarily because we donāt have enough ventilators at the time.
We need more facts and weāre not able to get them.
February 25, 2021
@Lifelogic
You clearly have a problem where women are concerned. Applying your logic, it will be heartwarming to read that you support the front of the vaccine priority queue being reserved for people (regardless of gender or age) most at risk of dying from Covid because of living in the most deprived circumstances, those living in the more deprived areas than those living in the least deprived; and higher in those in Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) groups than in White ethnic groups. Suggested reading for you: Disparities in the risk and outcomes of Covid-19.
February 25, 2021
No I just want it done on risk to save most lives. If Bame, blood groups, baldness and similar make sense based on risk then do that too. The case for gender adjustment is totally overwhelming. Male of 60 same risk as female of 65. Double the risk approx for a given age and such an easy adjustment to do.
February 25, 2021
JayGee, How on earth do you imagine that Lifelogic has “a problem where women are concerned”? Women (in general) have a better immune system than men (in general) do. That’s the science, whether you believe in a creator God, or in evolution. It is presumably to cope with women being viviparous and having to cope with an entirely different DNA life growing within their wombs when pregnant.
February 25, 2021
I know that Lifelogic bangs on about this and that no Government will change this, the important point surely is that it shows that the Government only follow the science when it suits them. To not see them challenged on this point by any MPs is disappointing. It will lend credibility to a faster easing of restrictions if their flagship policy is not even following “the” science.
February 25, 2021
Not posted by me.
February 25, 2021
Thanks.
February 25, 2021
But in this instance Lifelogic does have a point.
Jonathan Van Tam on Sky yesterday:
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-vaccine-side-effects-fertility-and-jab-shortages-van-tam-answers-your-questions-12227598
“He said data shows for teachers of both sexes the rate of death between 9 March and 28 December 2020 has been 18.4/100,000 for men and 9.8/100,000 for women.
If you compare that with the same age and sex population, the figures are lower than those – 31.4/100,000 for men and 16.8/100,000 for women.”
That’s quite a big difference, a factor of about two; whereupon it immediately pops up into my mind that it could even be connected with the number of X chromosomes, which may confer some protection?
I don’t know whether Lifelogic is correct when he claims that the gender disparity corresponds to five years of age but it doesn’t seem right to just dismiss it out of hand.
Aany more than we should dismiss any proven inherited racial disparities out of hand. Apart from anything else that could end up as another Windrush, could it not?
February 25, 2021
Thanks..
February 25, 2021
70% of teachers in the UK are female.
February 25, 2021
Government seem to have no problem though when it comes to discriminating AGAINST men. Sate pension until recently.
February 25, 2021
The gender pay laws also (in effect) actively discriminate against men as does the treatment of homeless people in my experience also annuity rates do.
February 25, 2021
MWB
“Government seem to have no problem though when it comes to discriminating AGAINST men”
Of course ! the entire system has been infected with misandry.
Proven by the fact that they want to make misogyny a crime but not misandry.
February 25, 2021
I think JRās point is that the Fake Tory Govt. has been given free reign by its party MPs to do whatever it likes. Surprisingly JR poses questions each week, year on year as a token gesture.
This type of blog appears intended as a distraction instead of changing key policy issues to hold the govt to account or to distract at the absolutely disgraceful mess of the EU servitude plan at the moment.
Glad to read Kate Hoey and others taking legal action over the N.Ireland protocol. No sane person would negotiate or sign up to it other than Johnson and traitor May.
EU now forcing city of London to give up services or transfer business to EU! This is not friendship or partnership acts these are acts from a hostile organisation determined to cause our country and business harm. Useless Johnson not wishing to confront aimlessness drifts along not be shouted at and hoping they will say nice things to him. Get the clown out.
I thought the WA and NI was temporary and to be relinquished by the servitude plan not lie alongside for full servitude compliance! I read in Gardenersā World magazine plants and seeds becoming impossible to export in our own country to N.Ireland without a Ā£15 certificate!
How is this better than WTO? JR that was your test. Could you prove it to us please.
February 25, 2021
@ Reply “No one has taken up your view in Parliament. “ – what, not even the Minister For Men? A lost opportunity to advance his remit, I am sure.
February 25, 2021
Gyges, a very valid point. I tested positive in Spain, having voluntarily subjected myself to a health centre test after a friend and fellow lunch party guest got it for sure. I isolated for ten days, receiving a call from my GP each day. I had no symptoms whatever. My GP suggested I then had immunity, I thought I was more likely a false positive. Nobody else at the lunch got it. Thanks to Pfizer and the NHS I now have my first jab.
February 25, 2021
Gyges – Why are the figures given out as ” so many infected per 100’000″ – -to confuse and scare – no other reason. Why are other figures given as dying “within 28 days of a positive test” ? Absolute stupidity. Test positive – get run over by a bus just afterwards – -and you are a Covid statistic???? Madness. I am more likely to die of high Blood Pressure caused by the govt lies than the virus.
Wonder if Priti is doing anything about the ongoing invasion at the South coast – or is she waiting till there are no more hotel rooms to put foreign freeloaders in?
February 26, 2021
If anyone is daft enough to set forth across the Channel in current weather, and I hope they are not, survival will be their greatest problem. I assume that Macron, by allowing them to collect around Calais wishes them to try, if only to embarass the UK. Such is EU thinking.
February 25, 2021
It seems to me that there is no justification at all for the continued lock down. It is surely doing far, far more harm than good (both economic and health). UK deaths (since the end of the spring wave last year) have been entirely within the normal range (loss of Qaly years even lower still due to the average age to these deaths). This despite the fact that the UK healthcare system and the NHS have about the worse death per Covid infection rate in the World at 2.94% about double the average for other countries.
So about 60,000 extra deaths seem to be the result of the UK’s relatively poor health care system and even more than that if you include all the extra infections caused by poor infection control at NHS hospitals and infected patients being dumped untested into care homes
I see that JCVI have adjusted the vaccine priority for people with learning difficulties. This may or may not be justified. But they have not done this for male gender which is very clearly justified. It seems I should have got some actress or footballer to push this cause if I wanted any change from government.
This rather than just informing ministers, their departments and JCVI members of their multiple death causing error. No justification or reply from any of them.
Adjusting the vaccine priority order for real gender risk (and not wasting vaccines on people who have already had it) would have made the initial vaccine roll out nearly 30% more effective that it has been. It would have saved hundreds of lives and thousands of NHS admissions and reduced other infections too. It would also (by being 30% more effective) have enabled us to open up about two weeks earlier even by the government’s snail pace “road map”.
So why?
February 25, 2021
It seems to me that quite a few of these ‘Covid Deaths’ are down to very poor reporting policies – that manage to conceal the facts rather than reveal them. Died ‘of’ or died ‘with’ (with 28 days of positive test) are quite different things in reality.
February 25, 2021
Spot On – Whoād have thought in this day and age that our own government would use death figures, and the manipulation of those figures to curtail of freedoms ?
February 25, 2021
As I have said before, jump out of an aeroplane at high altitude without a parachute and your death will be attributed to CV19. Figures manipulated. Control of the masses. Population reduction. We did not lose our freedom, we let the establishment take it away from us with Project Fear.
Wake up people.
February 25, 2021
Lifelogic, An excellent summary of the government’s unwillingness to follow the actual science.
February 25, 2021
LL ‘So about 60,000 extra deaths seem to be the result of the UKās relatively poor health care system and even more than that if you include all the extra infections caused by poor infection control at NHS hospitals and infected patients being dumped untested into care homes ‘
I have no means of estimating a better number, but if we go back to incredibly late and hopeless lack of flight restrictions, ferry and Chunnel travellers, mainline and underground unrestricted, Premier League football match crowds continuing etc – it is perfectly possible you are about right.
February 25, 2021
+1 Lifelogic
Your point has finally got through to me.
February 25, 2021
Good Morning, Sir John.
‘The slow indicative timetable to eventual freedom on June 21 is subject to revision.’ The Government is suggesting, hardly subtly, that those of us who decline the ‘vaccine’ will be responsible for keeping our compatriots in a continued state of lockdown. We ‘anti-vaxxers’ have done our research and have reservations about it. We must have the freedom to choose what medication we accept.
None of these so-called vaccines has been used for long enough to give us confidence that they will definitely not have a long-term effect on our health.
I have declined the offer of being vaccinated. I do not want to risk compromising my immune system. I feel very strongly that I need to be in as healthy a state as possible when those who have been frightened into accepting a ‘vaccine’ may be in need my help and support further down the line.
Reply Everyone is free to make their own judgement. Governments and medical establishments worldwide think these vaccines are both safe and beneficial and recommend them strongly.
February 25, 2021
Please wear a sign round your neck so I can take evasive action if I see you.
February 25, 2021
But if you have been vaccinated you don’t need to
February 25, 2021
Surely you wouldn’t need to, Nig 1, if you’ve been vaccinated against Covid?
I trust you’re not suggesting that the vaccine doesn’t work…
February 25, 2021
There is no published evidence that asymptomatic, vaccinated people are less likely to pass on Covid than asymptomatic, non-vaccinated people. So a notice won’t help you.
February 25, 2021
For the past 12mths children under the age of 16yrs havenāt been required to wear a face mask in supermarkets etcā¦. however today its being reported that children upon return to schools will have to wear face masks ā you couldnāt make it up
February 25, 2021
however, if vaccinated the viral load most definitely gets eradicated in a few days, unlike the unvaccinated. So risk to others is reduced.
February 25, 2021
NIG L
Official figures tell us that over 99% of people who catch Covid-19 survive. Many people have been scared into believing, especially by irresponsible selective media broadcasts, that it is ONLY the ‘vaccine’ that will protect them. (Other treatments are being trialed which are less invasive, such as Ivermectin which Sir John has mentioned in a previous post.)
You seem to be one of these people. We have been told that the ‘vaccine’ does not prevent us from catching Covid-19, it only reduces the symptoms. It has also not yet been proven that a vaccinated person cannot pass on the virus. This is another reason why I am taking my time before I accept a vaccine rather than let my aeons-old immune system do the work.
I will of course continue to do what I’ve always done – stay at home / keep out of the way of others if I feel the slightest bit ill. I know that ‘asymptomatic spread’ (passing on the virus when having no symptoms) has been another scare story, but even the WHO state that this is ‘very rare’.
Sir John, thank you for taking the time to reply to my first comment.
February 25, 2021
My calculation is that people over about 45 who have not had covid and people with relevant medical conditions should take the vaccines, they do seem (so far anyway) to be very safe and effective. Below that age the risk from Covid is very low indeed and with perhaps 30,000 vaccines to save each life (in this age group) it might well cause rather more harm than good on average.
February 25, 2021
With a slight age gender adjustment up and down that is!
February 25, 2021
LL, you cannot calculate that is utter rubbish. You do not know the medium or long term side effects. No one does. The companies producing the vaccines include no liability in their contracts for effectiveness or safety!
How long will Passports last for? Longer than the effectiveness of the vaccine? Will criminals who travel by boat allowed and encouraged to illegally enter our country by putting them up in four star hotels produce theirs? The govt does not know know where they come from, what countries they pass through. Nor can the govt get rid of them under ECHR, as the UK is still under the jurisdiction of a foreign court and foreign laws.
February 25, 2021
I agree it is my best estimate though.
February 25, 2021
Reply to reply
Based on what though?
February 25, 2021
Political superficial appearances is more important than hundreds of lives it seems.
February 25, 2021
Lifelogic, If the government followed actual facts, rather than political expediency, we wouldn’t have HS2, unsmart motorways, etc, either!
February 25, 2021
+1 nor the war on plant food.
February 25, 2021
I am of the same opinion as you.
When these ‘vaccines’ have successfully completed phase 2 and 3 of the trials and they are at the confirmed level of safety to be licenced, not just ‘approved’ by politicians and their paid lackeys, then I will consider this vaccination. The same way I consider having the flu vaccine, by choice, not political coercion/force.
This virus been around for over a year, so there are obviously people out there with a high T cell count/robust immune system who are not too concerned about a virus with a 99% survival rate.
So it begs the question why are these politicians in fear mongering overdrive, because when flu epidemics come around, they hardly raise a murmur?
Never before have they resorted to this level constant fear mongering or used data jiggery pokery for flu etc. Or brought in draconian laws outlawing who in the family you can see or can’t see. Put the population effectively under ‘house arrest’ for months on end and destroyed approx 1 million peoples livelihoods. This government is also responsible for the avoidable deaths of so many people. Suicide due isolation and despair. Stopping early diagnosis and treatments of life threatening conditions. They have a lot to answer for.
February 25, 2021
I am of the same opinion as you.
When these āvaccinesā have successfully completed phase 2 and 3 of the trials and they are at the confirmed level of safety to be licenced, not just āapprovedā by politicians and their paid lackeys, then I will consider this vaccination. The same way I consider having any other vaccine, by choice, not political coercion/force.
February 26, 2021
JR, not true. Merkel still refusing to take Astrazenica jab claiming she is 66 years and the manufacturers of the jab not recommended for over 65s. Why does she get quoted saying this today?
February 25, 2021
Vaccination certificates for travel outside of the country will be necessary and I hope people coming into our country have to show they are protected too . Travel for pleasure has been banned during the pandemic but I fear with the introduction of road tolls eventually and EV”s, travelling in ones own car for pleasure will become something most people will be unable to afford. Is this to become another way to control the masses?
February 25, 2021
Are hotel incarcerations effective in stopping infection or not? The government won’t say how many positive tests there have been amongst those in quarantine so they are hardly being transparent. This government thinks absolutely nothing about trampling on freedoms. How can it be ethical to quarantine perfectly healthy people – and force them to pay for the privilege?
February 25, 2021
Matthu, I suspect they were a too little too late political gesture. A daily viewing of Flight Radar 24 would have told you that the UK has been an open door throughout this pandemic. Only other nations travel restrictions have kept the numbers down. These hotel incarcerations only emphasise the need of an acceptable international covid vaccination certificate.
February 25, 2021
There is a school of thought by scientists lockdowns cause mutations of the virus. New York studies do. To conclude lock downs worked. Look at all the statistics comparing states in the US, those who have lock downs and those who do not. Those who did not were not the worst performing!
February 25, 2021
Most of the Government rules introduced have been theatre, the ones needed ignored.
February 25, 2021
Agree – case in point 99% of face masks are ineffective against the size of virus….and yet this government keeps telling us to wear them – it makes us ‘feel’ safe
February 25, 2021
+1
Incarcerations of many people in large hotels could well do more harm than good. What is driving this? Follow the money perhaps?
February 25, 2021
It is part of the drive to stop ( ordinary) folk from travelling.
We stopped being scared of āclimate changeā ….so they used a pandemic to make us reduce CO2.
And sheeple were scared out of their wits..and we are stuffed.
Lockdowns to continue until 2025 according to World Bank.
Are Gove and Hancock going to be made to appear before that Public Admin Committee?
February 25, 2021
Simple fact – if we had quarantined everyone coming into the country since Feb 2020 we would have no Covid in the country
February 25, 2021
Isnāt it more concerning that some people working in the nhs are that badly educated that they refuse the vaccine?
February 25, 2021
Why would NHS staff refusing a vaccine imply they are badly educated? Most doctors and nurses are very highly educated.
And weāre still, just about, a free country- for them to make their own choices and decisions.
February 25, 2021
And if it is true that many refuse, it is very worrying for the rest of us. They are medical experts, after all!
This all reminds me of the very first smallpox vac rollouts (1700s).
February 26, 2021
Sharon, we are told we have to stay locked down to save the NHS and NHS staff, they have been constantly on the tv telling us yet won’t take the vaccine that they demand the rest of the population take – NO>this isn’t fair or right. If they don’t feel the vaccine is safe then that troubles me more now and I encouraged my family to go and get it.
February 25, 2021
Frances, Or perhaps they know better?
February 25, 2021
Covid was and is a war situation, consequently restriction is part of the collective deal to win. I state again, an individuals freedom can only exist to the point where it adversely affects another persons freedom.
You sound a bit woolly on proof of vaccination certificates. The decision to make them available cannot be left to the individual to hunt them down. They should be freely available to those who want them for international travel, and our government have a responsibility to ensure that they are accepted internationally as with passports. I am of the opinion that whether the UK likes it or not, covid vaccination certificates will be a travel requirement for some years to come. The NHS has done a brilliant job with vaccination in the UK, apart from Israel much of the World including the EU has not. The war continues apace.
If you are still concerned about freedom, start fighting to reverse all the acts within the UK you have accepted and continue to accept which have and do destroy it. Just as fatal to the UK as covid or any other man made disease.
reply I am not woolly on proof of vaccination. Everyone vaccinated receives a card recording the dose and date.
February 25, 2021
With respect SJR, try using that card for international travel. Those that need it require an internationally acceptable vaccination certificate, check out current thinking in Europe. I keep that card to help the NHS confirm jab 2. It has no other validity that I am aware off. Please tell me if Frau VDL accepts it.
Reply Yes, I said we may need international travel documents which will depend on international agreements or decisions of other states.
February 25, 2021
Many thanks we are in harmony.
February 25, 2021
I agree we probably will need so called “International Travel Documents” why not simply call it what is it A Covid Travel Certificate or better Covid Passport, any way whatever the document turns out to be the majority of people will call it what the international governments call it. If its the EU travel then it will be a Covid Certificate.
Same principal as Yellow Fever Certificate
February 25, 2021
I received no card when I obeyed orders and got the flu and pneumonia jabs last Autumn.
Oh..but they arenāt experimental are they? No records needed?
February 25, 2021
@Everhopeful; Except the Flu vaccine is a single dose inoculation, most CV19 vaccines are two-part, given weeks apart, the patients personal record card is simply a belt-n-braces safety measure [1] to help ensure the appropriate vaccine is used for the second dose.
[1] at the time of roll-out it was believed mixing types of vaccine was unwise, if not dangerous.
February 25, 2021
I have to say I was very surprised that I received no card.
I was also surprised to get the worst bout of flu I can remember …OH too!
February 25, 2021
@Everhopeful; All drugs are “experimental”, even over the counter medication often have contact details were unexpected side effects can be reported!
February 25, 2021
Most of the information you will find in drug packets are there to cover the backsides of the manufacturer. If ever sued they can say we told you so. That said you have to make a judgement based on what you know about yourself. The drug may be a standard product, but the recipient is far from it. Your doctor and pharmacist can be very helpful in allaying fears.
February 25, 2021
By any known standard these vacs are rushed.
Have you read the Patient Information leaflets?
February 25, 2021
@Everhopeful; Circumstances my lad, circumstances, or perhaps you would prefer the lockdown to remain in place for another year, never mind perhaps a few month?! Nor have they been rushed in any case, just condensed, not the same thing at all.
February 25, 2021
The jabs you speak of are continuity jabs designed to maintain your immunity. The covid jabs 1&2 are there to establish your immunity. There are people around the World who will want evidence of your immunity if and when you travel internationally, and I would hope the UK would want to know when you return. I know it is not an absolute, but it is as near as you are going to get in proving you are risk free and will not be asked to pay a fat hotel bill.
February 25, 2021
the annual flu jab is not to maintain – it is a new discrete protection intended to deal with the most likely infection during the year.
February 25, 2021
John, the card is not a viable proof – there is no identification, serial number, signature or any aspect that can be authenticated or verified.
The immunisation is recorded in my patient record which I and medical professionals can access online but that does not act as a visa.
February 25, 2021
Reply – Reply
I have a yellow fever certificate which meets international approval, a business card size type record with a hand written name on it I suggest will not.
February 25, 2021
Agricola, Covid19 absolutely is not a “war situation”. You have swallowed the governments fear propaganda.
February 25, 2021
Correct – and when dust settles , history will record this virus as a virus but that the people paniced
February 26, 2021
It is my own comparison and nothing urged or suggested by government. They feel the need to choose their words more carefully than me.
February 25, 2021
Off topic
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1402194/snp-news-nicola-sturgeon-Scotland-government-funding-Covid-holyrood-latest
There needs to be an investigation into were this money (the tax payers money )as gone, etc ed….. if no explanation is fore coming we should stop the money handouts to the Scottish Parliament
February 25, 2021
Is there strong evidence that forcing schoolchildren to wear masks has any impact on the rate of infection? There has been ample time to find out. Requiring masks without any evidence is simply trampling on freedoms: it cannot be sufficient to take away freedoms based on a hunch.
February 25, 2021
And in America people have freedom to carry guns, a lot of people get shot, but hey their free. Donāt wear a seatbelt and get killed, but youāre free, donāt insure your car, canāt afford a crash but once again you are free. Donāt have a jab and you are free to potentially infect people. And so the bollocks goes on.
February 25, 2021
You are conflating constitutional issues, issues where there is strong evidence and issues where there is no strong evidence.
Freedoms which are guaranteed by constitution or where there is no strong evidence to have them removed, should remain protected.
February 25, 2021
matthu
There is also enshrined rights.
February 25, 2021
Nig l, medical experts including Patrick Vallance and the WHO say that the ‘vaccines’ do not stop you from catching or transmitting the virus. They do not make you ‘immune’ either. Please tell us where you are getting this misinformation to the contrary, as it seems to be driving a lot of opinion on these issues.
February 25, 2021
What silly ill considered rant Nig L .
February 25, 2021
Some encroachments on freedom are reasonable and justified other are not. Enforced vaccination goes too far for me.
February 25, 2021
I remember my father opening a window late one night to remonstrate with a group of noisy revellers in the street as they had woken us all up. The reply he got from one was that “It’s a free country ain’t it?”
The question is, am I free to avoid an innoculation and thus “free” to infect some poor innocent with a potentially nasty disease?
February 25, 2021
What do you suggest should happen to people who might be HIV positive?
February 25, 2021
Yes you will continue to be ‘free’ to do all sorts of things. However, I can imagine certain close-up-and-personal services will require, or be customer driven to expect, a duty of care to include having had a Covid vaccination.
I don’t want my dentist, optician, across the desk Dr (do they exist?), etc to maintain refusal, do you?
February 26, 2021
I have continued to visit my dentist over the past year and believe I am less likely to catch Covid from my dentist than I am on public transport, regardless of whether they have had a vaccination or not. Furthermore, I trust my dentist not to come to work if thy have Covid symptoms. And the chance of my catching Covid from an asymptomatic person are pretty small if I myself have been vaccinated.
So no, I am not worried.
February 25, 2021
Nig1, If you are convinced the covid19 vaccines protect you, what business is it of yours to tell me what to do?
February 25, 2021
The Government website says they don’t know if the vaccine will prevent you from carrying and transmitting the disease, Nig 1.
February 25, 2021
‘The slow indicative timetable to eventual freedom on June 21 is subject to [one-way] revision.’ Please excuse my use of the square brackets. Revising the dates needs to more flexible than just delaying a relaxation.
Changing tack, I am disappointed to see that the world has not come together and established a common standard for providing proof of COVID vaccination, so as to support the resumption of air travel. The many schemes being bandied about portend a mess in the making. Perhaps government ministers might re-purpose their current COVID advert. Mr Shapps could be filmed gazing into the sad faces of the many tens of thousands of air travel employees who have have either lost their jobs permanently or have been laid off.
And then he could be asked, in a sombre tone, if he has done all he can to help them get back to work. To my mind, he hasn’t.
February 25, 2021
The word freedom no longer holds any meaning in authoritarian Britain. You have wilfully destroyed it for political convenience. CV19 is a mere footnote in British history. The rise of Marxist ideology and your party’s embrace of it started way before CV19.
You are a captured party, a hostage and the fascist left now dictate what can and cannot be debated in a public forum
February 25, 2021
Much truth in this alas.
February 25, 2021
I am inclined to agree with your assessment. The actions of this government are most definitely not those of Small State conservative values.
February 25, 2021
Dom, much of what you say has an element of truth to it. In this respect politicians have been lazy and sleepy on their watch, particularly where the EU was telling them what to do. In effect they became box tickers with only one box to tick. We also have an inate desire to gold plate any regulation we are handed.
Example, too many cars entering our town. Logical solution, provide sufficient car parking. Actual solution, ensure that car parking is inadequate and expensive. Employ lots of dumb jobsworths to maraud those who cannot find a legal place to park and hound them with fines to pay for said jobsworths. Result, commercial activity in town slowly dies and alternatives are created which incorporate offshore to enhance other nations tax income.
I’m not politically erodite enough to call it Marxism, I see it as blatant incompetence.
February 25, 2021
And yet, you are allowed to say that on this blog day after day, ad nauseum. Do you not see a contradiction? We also discuss freely many subjects and JR prints many insults to him personally, mostly from you, and his party which happens to be your ‘authoritarian’ government. Funny that.
February 25, 2021
What difference does it make? The governance of this country continues to worsen. Itās a valve to let off steam. They wouldnāt want it happening on the streets.
Zorro
February 26, 2021
That’s not the same as a totalitarian state already in existence, or is it in your mind? O f course it happens on the streets, but at the moment people need protecting from themselves especially the vax deniers who place us all at risk, and for what exactly? Never been to Speakers Corner? Evidently not if that is your considered view.
February 25, 2021
Graham, There are many places where Dom would not be allowed to say it, or would be visited by the police, ostracised, lose his job, or even be prosecuted. The government tells us when and if we can leave our homes, for how long, how far we can go, and for what purpose. The government has fined people for having picnics; prevented elderly people on their deathbeds from being comforted by their children; encouraged neighbourhood snitches; and so on. It is appalling.
February 25, 2021
DOM
It’s new world order Blair-ism, that’s what it is, and must be killed off once and for all.
February 25, 2021
What meaneth our Great Leader in saying… referring to vaccines….
ā They are in a nutshell the formula for our countyās prosperity in the years to come.ā
(Whether they confer more than 2 months immunity or not?)
ā They show us the way ahead.ā.
A nation of veritable pincushions?
The Decade of Vaccines.
February 25, 2021
Everhopeful, welcome to Jabaholics we will help you live with it.
February 25, 2021
āMy name is Everhopeful/Agricola.
I canāt stop taking jabs!ā
February 25, 2021
or virus death – ‘do you feel lucky’?
February 25, 2021
I agree with what you say.
And itās disturbing that so many people seem to think that just to get our freedoms back itāll be worth… having a domestic vaccine passport, continue to wear masks etc. What many fail to understand is now itās been done to us once, and for a sustained period of time – lockdowns, mask wearing etc could become a habit. This is not good to be so lackadaisical with our liberties and freedoms, which were hard earned by previous generations.
February 25, 2021
+1 Freedom must be fought for and it is not to be surrendered
February 25, 2021
Spot on Mike. Why when all this started did BJ say straight away ” The Great Reset” with a BIG smile on his face? – All this is going to THEIR PLAN. Deliberate and organised.
February 25, 2021
Sharon, as I said in my main contribution, our freedoms have been and continue to be eroded beneath the eyes of their supposed guardians, who in fact have colluded in the process led by Roy Jenkins in the 60’s and followed by every do gooder liberal reality adjuster to this day.
February 25, 2021
The fundamental issue for me is that unlike other aspects of our lives, Covid has provided those in power with the means to abdicate responsibility and turn our Common Law on its head. We are no longer assumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a Court, but have been declared guilty unless we can prove our innocence, i.e. we’ve been considered and treated as infected unless we’re vaccinated; or as proposed, present a “passport”; not to a Court, but to those who anoint themselves with powers to police us. It has also allowed, and will continue to allow, the government/scientists to continually move the goalposts, as a virus itself will continually evolve. If I may stress again that power is ALWAYS given, never taken and if the government gives these powers to others to exercise at will, it will have truly serious implications; not least for unity and equality.
February 25, 2021
Apparently some communities in this country have a low uptake of vaccines.
Some may rightly and admirably and bravely exercise what few rights they have left in this terrible place and continue to ignore/refuse.
And the govt will ( since it always does exactly the opposite to what it promises) effectively bar them from normal life??
āI never thought I would be living in a country where you needed a reason to leave your houseā nor did I but I am not one of the hitherto trusted elected who are supposed to protect us from such harms!!
February 25, 2021
Everhopeful, not many need to be told to stay in the bomb shelter during an air raid. Consider the welfare of those who have to.
February 25, 2021
Consider Bethnal Green.
February 25, 2021
Agricola, We are not at all out war, and bombs are not falling on us! How precious can you be? We have suffered an outbreak of a nasty respiratory disease with similar effects, and similar victims, to a nasty flu epidemic. That is all.
February 26, 2021
Metaphor.
February 25, 2021
Everhopeful, it is quite concerning that a big group of eligible refusers of vaccines are well-qualified doctors and nurses! People we rely on and are told that we need to stay locked up to protect won’t protect themselves with the wonder vaccine, I think we have a right to ask them what are their medical concerns about it?
February 25, 2021
Absolutely!
February 25, 2021
Labour will naturally be obliging and supine because they relish the present hatred of the Tories. Lab will do NOTHING to ameliorate that!
Plus that must be licking their lips at the fully prepared totalitarian state they will ( surely) inherit?
February 25, 2021
After 4 days of discussion with family and friends who are still prepared to discuss C19 I have come to the strong conclusion that the intention of the ” Road Map” is in fact to create a series of unbending “Road Blocks”.
The primary reason is to instill in the remainder of free thinkers in the UK a “Stockholm Syndrone” type indoctrination.
We have moved from Flatten the Curve, Save the NHS and then Save lives to the current fear driven You will Obey to kill the virus.
This is pure ideology and can be seen as such in the mad eyes of Dr Hancock .
Things will change, C19 will pass, citizens will regain their senses and facts and context will be properly presented to the voters but the resulting huge backlog of treatments and waiting lists will cost this government the next GE. There will be no hiding place from the old accusation, the NHS is not safe in their hands, and this time it’s TRUE!
February 25, 2021
“data is dynamic, and lagged”
The virus is also “dynamic”, and leads, hence the caution. Lockdowns No. 2 & 3 came about because some within Govt forgot (or chose to ignore) this simple fact – Any Lockdown 4 will be far more damaging to the economy and mental health than the slow and measured removal of current restrictions.
Hospital admissions are falling rapidly because of the Lockdown, not because the elderly and vulnerable (many of whom have been actively shielding or at least staying at home bar essentials, since last March) have been vaccinated, the problem that caused the current round of restrictions has been amongst those of working age, often with no prior known vulnerability.
February 25, 2021
Boris claimed the lockdown will be lifted based on data not dates and then published a bunch of dates and no data targets whatsoever. One of his “tests” is about number of hospitalisations but no indication of what rate of hospitalisation is too high. When the time comes SAGE can just say “they are too high” and there is no way of challenging them. So, once again we are entirely in the hands of SAGE and SAGE want permanent lockdowns.
Another point no-one has asked him is why he thinks unlocking slowly will prevent future lockdowns. If (for example) opening non-essential retail will double the R rate it doesn’t matter if that happens 2 weeks or 5 weeks after schools open. And the response from SAGE at that point will be to close non-essential retail again because what else can they do ? In any event that 2 or 5 week gap would make literally no difference at all to whether they impose another lockdown next winter (100% sure) when Covid/Flu once again overwhelms our NHS – speed of unlocking now is a total irrelavance. Expanding hospital/ICU capacity now would help but doesn’t seem to be part of the plan at all.
Off topic: I thought when the corporation tax rate was reduced last time that total government revenue increased (Laffer Curve) ? So why on earth are you (apparently) planning to increase the rate again ? Haven’t you bankrupted enough businesses ?
February 25, 2021
The lockdown is to be driven by data. But who believes the data any more? No or minimal deaths from influenza, a āsurprisingā reduction in deaths from dementia and similarly from Alzheimerās. I wonder why. Could it be that they have all bee ābox tickedā as Covid? Surely not!
Many og the āSAGEā decisions seem to be based on Imperial College modelling, which in itself is based on various estimates.
As the old saying goes āif you feed rubbish in, you get rubbish outā.
Frankly, I have little confidence in any of the statistics.
February 25, 2021
You need to be unequivocal in your opposition to mandatory vaccination and vaccine “passports”. Opening that Pandora’s box would bring an end to any hope of freedom and liberty being restored.
A year ago you would never have thought that a UK government, a so-called Conservative one as well, would take away our liberty and freedom and in the process cause so much harm to people and damage to the economy. Our Parliament has been complicit in allowing these moves to an authoritarian state.
In whose manifesto was it written that we shall take measures to move the country inexorably closer to resembling that of China and the Chinese Communist Party?
February 25, 2021
Sir John, I strongly support the sentiment behind today’s blog and urge you to please, please take up the fight to restore our freedoms. Whatever one’s view on the restrictions, it is surely without doubt that we must now rail against the inevitable creeping embrace of the state on our daily lives. In Johnson’s speech this week he spoke of “most” freedoms being restored; vaccine passports are “under review”; will we be subject to track and trace forever? The demand for the total restoration of ALL our freedoms, more than a year after they were taken from us, should not be controversial but history shows the state is always reluctant to give back what it steals. Please exert as much pressure on the government as you possibly can in this most important battle of my lifetime.
February 25, 2021
Well said, Villaking. Our freedoms should not have been trashed, and Parliament should not have been sidelined, so readily. The state must back off, and be seen to do so.
February 25, 2021
“It is highly likely the data for serious cases admitted to hospital and deaths from CV 19 will continue to fall rapidly as the NHS completes vaccination of most people over 50 and anyone with another worrying medical condition. ”
This is the only data we need to be responded to now – “… admitted to hospital [because of CV19] and deaths from CV19…” If we continue instead to respond to infection rates we are A) Ignoring the benefits of the vaccines B) Making ourselves vulnerable to permanent restrictions and state control
Vaccine passports issued for internal use change the dynamic between the State and the person completely. The person becomes accountable to the State and must produce documentation to officials in order to go about business that was perfectly lawful without documentation in 2019.
In 2019 it was down to officials to prove their identity and status to the Queen’s subjects – in 2021 it seems likely that the Queen’s subject becomes a citizen and the onus will be on him to prove his identity and status to officials without being suspected of a crime.
The effect of the vaccine is to mitigate the illness, not to wipe it out. This is not good enough for some. This is certainly being used as an excuse for those high on temporary power to make it permanent.
Let those who want to take the vaccine take it, let those who don’t not take it.
We have to accept an unavoidable death rate (we accepted 30,000 a year from flu without qualm) but we MUST restore our powers fully and get our country back to work as soon as humanly possible.
There seems to be no sense of urgency whatsoever to get us out of lockdown. There seems to be no awareness whatsoever about the terrifying debts and mental problems this country is storing up for itself. And here I am wondering what the bloody point of being among the first in the vaccine was – at huge monetary and altruistic cost – if we’re just going to squander its benefits.
February 25, 2021
To those concerned about how easy it will now be for any future Govt to remove human rights at a whim, there is a new lockdown inquiry petition at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/575462
February 25, 2021
As soon as possible, Parliament should repeal the Coronavirus Act. The Government should not be allowed to introduce measures like domestic certificates by fiat and without full scrutiny and debate in both Houses. It is worrying that the only ‘opposition’ in the Commons comes from a handful of principled Conservative MPs.
February 25, 2021
This Government has no interest in Freedom whatsoever: I see it is now going to force us to use a less efficient grade of petrol in our cars to satisfy its Green Ego.
February 25, 2021
On freedom and unlocking:
The Govt should issue (daily or weekly) the percentage and number of people likely to remain susceptible to infection, and proportionately liable to require hospitalisation at some point. This is a key decision statistic and MPās should be demanding itās regular and frequent publication.
Required data: –
The Govt has antibody seroprevalence data as a function of age (e.g. estimates based on measurements through January this year suggested over 40% in the over 80s as vaccines were rolled out and 26% for the 16 to 24 year olds.), date and decay Known
The Govt also has estimates of the number of population infected (under whatever definition) at a given time e.g. 1-2% in the early part of this year. Known
The Govt has data on the number in each age group that have had 1 or 2 doses of vaccination. Known
The Govt needs (? perhaps it has, but Iāve not seen ?) to add to the above data, an estimate of the percentage of each age group that shows a T-cell response to Covid (much research has demonstrated that this is extremely likely to be sufficient to give protection e.g. the Oxford Immunotec and PHE study). ???????
The Govt knows the likelihood of requiring hospitalisation if infected as a function of age and underlying condition Known
February 25, 2021
The Covid battle, has been extended by two lockdowns that were too short and significantly ignored by a less than cohesive citizenry. Don’t put any money down on coming out of the third lockdown with similar results to other two. None of the right-wing media are talking about the Brexit outcome. There is a lockdown on Brexit data, it is being camouflaged by Covid. Come the 1st July, Covid freedom day and industry and commerce start up; people will be looking for those promised sunny uplands. Oops!
February 25, 2021
So the lockdowns were “too short and significantly ignored”, Acorn? So when are you going to tell your lockdown manic friends they haven’t worked?
There is no “right wing” media. Unfortunately. But the left wing media like the Telegraph and the BBC do mention Brexit from time to time. Perhaps they don’t mention it as frequently as the should because Remains on here keep telling us we shouldn’t talk about the EU any more?
February 25, 2021
acorn, how many people do you actually know personally that have been hospitalised already with covid?
The right-wing media talk about the Brexit outcome every day. I just checked the Express – “Patrick Stewart fury over Brexit result: grimmest thing and a disgrace”
“M Barnier makes thinly veiled threat to UK if EU boats are shut out of British Water”
“Merkel says NO! German chancellor rejects Oxford jab despite 1.2m doses going to waste”
“Boris is an unrepentant liar over the cost of Brexit former French ambassador rages”
that was just the top of the page.
February 25, 2021
Have you noticed in your area that, if like mine, camper vans and caravans are moving out of the lockdown parking areas they have occupied for the last ten months. They think it’s all over (Covid wise). Likewise, I have booked my haircut for April 15th. You can guess what’s coming; Boris announcing the start of the forth England lockdown.
February 25, 2021
When you take away people’s freedom to congregate and share ideas and you combine this with cancel culture which sees dissenting ideas suppressed or removed from the Internet, you invite subversive opposition.
February 25, 2021
On vaccination passports:
The U.K. should not require Covid vaccination passports for visitors at this time. The virus mutates rapidly and the current vaccines have a narrow focus making vaccine escape likely. This is made more so by widespread vaccination of a low risk population whilst the virus is at high levels. Encouraging vaccine escape and those susceptible to new strains to travel more broadly appears absurd.
If the situation arises such that a (known long term safe) 2nd generation vaccine is developed that can give broad, long -lasting (say over 10 years) immunity then there might be an argument to change this.
February 25, 2021
I need to have paperwork producible on demand by the police to show that my car is taxed, insured and MOTed. I also need a driving licence to show I have passed a test to drive etc. Not only that, but I am forced to tell the police who was driving my car if it is snapped by a speed camera (no right to silence).
Why? To keep the rest of society and myself safe.
So what is different about a vaccination certificate? It could well speed up the opening up of the economy. More people vaccinated means a faster fall in hospital numbers and more people able to resume work and dare I say it – able to afford to run a car.
February 25, 2021
@ Martin “So what is different about a vaccination certificate?” – (i) it is only obtainable by requiring a bearer to undergo a medical procedure that normally and properly should be at individual discretion (in contrast to allowing the State to enforce against patients’ will) and (ii) it proves nothing materially useful, vaccinations being less than 100 per cent. effective (some recipients will not benefit) and of time limited duration if they do work. Also, if the vast majority of us are soon to be vaccinated, those who have refused vaccines (and who would be without a certificate) are the ones running risks.
Further, consider the risk of forged certificates hazarding most or all uses. To overcome that, certificates would have to be of highly sophisticated design and likely have to include the bearer’s photograph. To achieve all that means issuance is a major exercise, leaving aside issues that arise from certificates then being effectively ID cards.
February 25, 2021
Because driving a car is a privilege and being a person is not.
February 25, 2021
And also not having a driving licence doesn’t stop you going to shops, work, pubs, public transport, sports venues… – not having a driving licence does not result in being cancelled as a human being.
February 25, 2021
Martin,
Requiring or coercing someone to accept a vaccine that is only authorised for emergency supply is questionable. Studies of long term safety are obviously not yet complete. Compensation risk does not fall on the pharmaceutical companies, but on the Govt and hence tax payer.
The vaccines appear narrowly focussed whilst the virus mutates at a quite high rate. This is a very different situation to, say, Australia’s no jab, no pay rule for MMR. In the latter case the risks for young are very high immunity is long lived, and the long term safety of the vaccine is known.
February 25, 2021
No, Martin, none of that paperwork keeps you, or society, “safe”. Otherwise there would be no accidents once you passed your driving test.
If you want a covid vaccine, be my guest. But it is selfish to force your decision onto me. With the vaccine you are safe (supposedly – or why else would you have it?), so the risks I choose to take are none of your business.
February 25, 2021
Are you now going to fight this tyranny?
zorro
February 25, 2021
Vaccinations and the introduction of secure and verifiable vaccination records/certificates to prevent the spread of disease is a far less restriction on liberty than lockdowns and preferable to overloaded hospitals.
Although it shouldnāt be made mandatory for everyone it should certainly be for those who work in settings such as care homes and hospitals to protect the vulnerable.
Just as increased road traffic brought about the need for a driving test/licence to protect others on the road (suicide is not illegal) so increasing population and international travel means that vaccinations are becoming necessary to protect everyoneās health.
I do not expect Covid-19 to die out and hence regular vaccinations for new variants will be required and good vaccination records kept.
I would go further to say that reliable records should be kept for all diseases which can be controlled through vaccination.
February 25, 2021
For heaven’s sake how many more times do people need to be told that these Covid vaccines do not confer immunity? Their role is to to mitigate the severity of any symptoms that might manifest during the course of the illness.
If people want to feel virtuous for having it, that’s up to them but don’t curtail the liberty of the 20% of the population that have decided against accepting the vaccine.
As for the shocking erosion of our liberties, it is nothing short of a scandal but I only hear one or two MPs who stand up in the house and express the concerns of the public. Needless to say they are ignored.
February 25, 2021
Well said, Christine.
February 25, 2021
Other Christine, You are quite right, all round.
February 25, 2021
+1
February 25, 2021
“A more difficult question which the government as employer does need to resolve is should NHS employees have to have the vaccine in order to work in NHS establishments?”
I don’t want to catch this disease next time I have to go to a hospital, or later if I have to go into a home for the elderly, and nor do I want my grandchildren to catch it at school. So looking at it in that selfish way I would say that in all such settings vaccination should be compulsory for all staff, but with a clear mechanism for medical or conscientious objection which if successful could lead on to other measures for risk minimisation.
February 25, 2021
The vaccination doesn’t stop you carrying the disease or transmitting it.
What use the passport ?
February 25, 2021
I’m not saying anything about a vaccine “passport”. Obviously if vaccination was to be a requirement for employment there would have to be some way of verifying that a person was telling the truth when they claimed to have been vaccinated, but that would not necessarily be in the form of a “passport” that they might carry around for other purposes. As for the efficacy of the vaccine, certainly vaccination of the staff would not entirely eliminate the possibility of a patient/resident/schoolchild catching the disease from a member of staff but it would greatly reduce the chance of that happening. Any members of staff who were exempted from vaccination would have to take other precautions to reduce the risk they pose.
February 25, 2021
[Disingenuously O/T but relevant, especially to a recent diary post] Indeed “We have lost a lot of freedoms…” and we look to Parliament to procure unfettered restoration. As it must also give back the people of Scotland their more extensive lost freedoms, written about today by Andrew Neil in the Daily Mail where he says what is happening in Scotland is a clear and present danger to democratic accountability, the impartial rule of law and a free Press.
February 25, 2021
The daily crossing of illegal migrants from France continues and not one of them has a vaccination certificate
February 26, 2021
You won’t find many French having a vaccination or a certificate either. So the chances of these economic migrants tramping through several countries to risk drowning in the Channel having either is pretty remote.
February 25, 2021
There already exists a WHO card – International Certificates of Vaccination issued under International Health Regs 1969- this card or booklet is yelliw in colour and carried by international travellers and is to record for various vaccinations like smallpox, yellow fever, cholera and many more if needed. There is no reason that vaccination for covid could not be entered in here
February 25, 2021
This 1969 WHO cert was superseded by new cert in 2007- International Cert of Vaccination or prophylaxis- International Health Regs 2005 Annex 6
February 25, 2021
Your comments on ‘vaccine passports’ echo those I expressed here yesterday, so it is no surprise I agree with them!
But I question your statement: “Most have accepted the need to take tough measures to protect those at risk of serious illness and death.” You are shifting the goalposts!!! We were initially told the aim was specifically to prevent hospitals being overwhelmed. That’s it. It is for individuals to take responsibility for their own health and to act accordingly. Those “at risk of serious illness and death” should do all the precautionary things, such as self-isolate and, where this is not possible, wear an N99 mask (not the rubbishy things most people wear), take high doses of vitamin D, etc. The rest of us should be free to do what we want – and accept the consequences if we get ill.
With the unused Nightingale hospitals, and the treatments that were available but not used, there was NEVER any danger of hospitals being overwhelmed, so again, NO, I do not accept the rationale for the lockdown.
February 25, 2021
London Nick-
The hospitals were overwhelmed the moment normal treatments were delayed further which was around a year ago. Now with ‘project fear’, of CV19, people are making life or death decisions as to whether to go in to infected hospitals for any treatment not having any isolation units.
February 25, 2021
Another day, another Boris disaster! Far from promoting Britain’s electricity production, as you have urged, the government’s failure to support Drax against the greens ……………means that the company has withdrawn plans to build Europe’s largest gas turbine power station. But then, it’s no surprise Boris didn’t support Drax, since he has himself turned into one of the biggest ecoloons in the country! And so our reliance on the inherently unreliable interconnectors from the EU will continue, and we will forever be held hostage. Well done Boris!
February 25, 2021
The Government has successfully worn me down.
I was asked to have a first jab …. so I had it.
When I’m asked to have a second jab …. I will have it.
If I’m asked to carry ID in order to travel on public transport, for international travel, to go to the pub, a restaurant or to the cinema et al….. I will carry it.
If employers require employees to have a jab …. I will sympathise with it.
All of these are annoying … but are not difficult
The trade off is that the restrictions are lifted much, much sooner.
February 25, 2021
If Iāve got the flu I donāt need a certificate to verify that Iāve had a flu vaccination to go to the pub ā Iām at home in bed
Likewise a covid vaccination certificate doesnāt prove if youāre a carry or not of the virus
Therefore Iād question why healthy people going to the pub would be required to show a certificate (one that would be counterfeited easy) ???
February 25, 2021
How about if they start charging you Ā£50 to get your certificate, which needs to be updated every few months.
Would that still be a good deal?
How about if you had to produce your certificate to go to the dump?
To go to the beach?
If you are approached by a policeman in the street?
How about if they threatened to fine you Ā£500 if you produced an expired vaccination certificate?
February 25, 2021
Once you accept the premise that you can be obliged to carry a smartphone, would you be happy to have the NHS Covid proximity app switched on? (With variable sensitivity, controlled by the government?)
Would you be happy to be told to self-isolate for 10 days on the say-so of this app because you may have come too close to someone else who had not been vaccinated?
February 25, 2021
If airline pilots are expected to pass a medical in order to acquire/keep their licence to fly why should hospital staff not be expected to be up-to-date with all vaccinations of all diseases which are controlable through vaccination?
February 25, 2021
JR, I agree wholeheartedly with all your views in your “Freedom” posting. Thank you.
February 25, 2021
What of freedom if we have a weak government
Iād suggest that even with a 300 seat majority, with a manifesto commitment priority to stop and return illegal migrants crossing channel, with the endorsement of the voting public ā this government still wouldnāt return a single illegal migrant
Maybe we should cut our losses and inform the world that our borders are open, free of visa, free of controls, free of inspection, and free of covid restrictions
Only the common man has lost their freedom, the Ć©lites and illegals carryon as normal
February 25, 2021
Indeed the one thing that remained sacred throughout this crisis (above even our lives) was freedom of movement.
February 25, 2021
The issue is you are not just risking your own life but others if you have not been vaccinated.
Like it or not we are in war time conditions, with a loss of personal freedoms greater than in WW2.
The enemy is both inside the population and attacking from out side. We have not done a very good job of preventing the virus coming in from the outside( and still not), so we are forced to make more checks as people begin to mix more on the inside of the population.
Most EU countries expect you to carry id when you are out in public and this was long before the virus.
The Police don’t ask to see it without reasonable cause. We are just not use to identifying ourselves in public places. I don’t particularly like the idea but in this case your choice not to get vaccinated affects other peoples choices and possibly their lives.
I am sure you will be happy to undergo an operation if the medical staff have not been vaccinated.
This is not a good example to justify not to have a requirement to be vaccinated and be able to show you have been.
The real issue was there was no vaccine for those in the front line initially and priority given to those not actually in the front line. A political decision, not a practical one.
February 25, 2021
At the risk of invading Lifelogic’s thread and to answer John’s question., I would say that the emergency laws and powers put in place by a government who are supposed to protect personal freedom are quite wrong, and requiring vaccine passports is yet another intrusion into personal freedoms and liberty. I will not have some app on my phone saying whether I have had a vaccination or not. Those who would like this app should just check on the confessions of Edward Snowden on what security services can do with mobile phones and apps.
As an aside I see Doctor Doom Hancock following our great leader….Carrie Symonds…errr I meant Boris, in almost instantaneously warning us plebs to behave and follow the rules, or he will extend lock down. What they give with one hand they take with another.
February 25, 2021
+1
February 25, 2021
As I’ve always said John, your diaries are a useful source of information both from your posts but also from the comments of others. I was convinced yesterday that vaccine passports were essential but reading all the comments has actually changed my mind. People have made some excellent points which have made me realise they are not essential. I think they will be necessary for international travel because many country’s will insist on them but not fir domestic use here. A brilliant site John. Please don’t stop.
February 26, 2021
+1
February 25, 2021
Are you seriously suggesting the Government should simply refuse British Passport holders the opportunity to get a vaccine certificate?. The Government must take a lead on peoples demands.
Its bad enough being shackled to not having free unlimited access to the EU without denying people the right to travel by not having a vaccine passport certificate.
If travel outside of the UK is hindered in any way because people cannot get a vaccine certificate this will cause massive unrest and protests.
Over 10 million people travel to Spain for annual holidays, plus all the millions who travel else where such a move amounts economic losses.
February 26, 2021
What right does the UK government have to insist on vaccine passports for domestic use – shops, cinemas, pubs, restaurants etc ? If a foreign government requests the traveler has proof of vaccination that’s a different matter and one which the individual should consider before travelling. The government has said that if this is the case then some form of proof will have to devised.
February 25, 2021
Freedom of choice āātransportāā
The new synthetic āefuelā dramatically reduces co2 with the efuels alliance calling it co2 neutral, including Porsche. Mazda, Audi etc
https://www.efuel-alliance.eu/en/
Why are we not being given the freedom of choice when there are alternatives out there ??? government social engineering again
February 25, 2021
If our Vauxhall plant at Ellesmere Port is closed by the French we should reconsider our Trade & Cooperation Agreement
It should be our freedom to go WTO
February 26, 2021
The French? The present owner of the Ellesmere plant is now the Stellantis Group, whose HQs are in Rotterdam. This group actually owns Citroen and Peugeot (originally French brands) but also owns Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, Opel, Ram Trucks and Vauxhall.
Do you not think that limiting your comment to āthe Frenchā is a bit on the reductive side? Or maybe you simply do not know what you are talking about. Which one is it?
February 26, 2021
I generalised due to memories of Agincourt
February 25, 2021
Rather more important is that we have not recovered the freedom that we could have recovered since leaving the European Union.
There are a range of measures that we could take to improve our balance of payments with the EU:
– Retaliation for the bureaucracy that the EU is imposing on our exporters, driving up costs
– Reducing food imports from the EU, favouring home production and imports from cheaper sources
– Getting a better deal for our financial services; we could help share dealing on the LSE by scrapping share transaction tax; and we don’t necessarily have to obey EU laws on Eurozone transactions
– Phasing in electric cars gradually, ensuring that we have a UK battery industry and charging points
– Ordering railway rolling stock from UK sources
– Undertaking a thorough review of all the EU laws and UK laws resulting from EU directives that have accumulated since the Maastricht Treaty was incorprated into UK law on 1st January 1993. That’s 28 years of favouring German technology, French style bureaucracy, big business and incumbent businesses. A lot of it must go.
Theoritical sovereignty is no use unless we follow it through with practical actions.
And when are we going to have a defence, foreign and security policy that suits the interests of the UK, not the EU and not Biden’s reawakened Pax Americana. Joe, get your tanks off our lawn.
February 26, 2021
‘It would be quite wrong to make the rest of us have the vaccine in order to go to a shop or theatre if the government isnāt even willing to require vaccination as a condition of employment in exposed state employment.’ Glad to hear that, but what is the CRG saying to the government about this? The gov’t has managed to initiate a debate in the media on vaccine certificates (for internal UK use), so does this mean that they are looking at legislation? This appalling idea has to be challenged now before it starts to gain momentum.
February 27, 2021
Good morning Sir John
Here on the Isle of Man there is a covid outbreak, originating from the Steam Packet ferry from the UK, with a crew member being the index case.
The IOM government is instigating vaccination of ferry crew members, also flight crew and is examining possible isolation measures for island resident crew.
Transport workers, many asymptomatic, are obvious vectors for transmission to passengers and the UK government may want to consider similar measures.