I duly filled in my Census to comply with the law and ordered the email receipt to be able to prove it. As we now live in a snooper state where government keeps so many records about us it is difficult to fathom why they need to conduct a census.
They know who I am , where I live, where I work and all the details I supplied for my National Insurance number, Passport and driving licence. They have Income tax records, National Insurance records, residence records for Council Tax, health records through the NHS ,a birth, marriage and divorce record. So why do they need to know again who I am, where I live, what my general state of health is, what job I do and what my marital status is despite knowing all this already? They also wanted to know a few of the qualifications I hold, all known to the Examining Boards and Universities which are part of a government guided educational system.
They might argue that the point of the Census is to catch up with a minority who have not duly complied with all the form filling needed by everyone from the Passport office to the Council Tax desk. I fear that if people are housing illegal migrants or covering for people dodging Income Tax and national Insurance they are unlikely to blow their cover by providing honest answers to the census form.
They might also argue it helps them plan future services and policies. If that is the purpose then it would need to be more precise and detailed than the form they provided. Let’s take the possible use of census data for a skills audit and future skills policy. The form did not allow someone to explain what professional qualifications they might have, made no distinction between the three main levels of degree to encompass research oriented doctorates as opposed to first degrees, and did not press home general enquiries about apprenticeships to discover which areas were best served. Asking people to make a general assessment of their health is hardly sufficient evidence to plan NHS capacity. The GPS know much more about their patients. The multiple questions about identity and background were more detailed than some other areas.
Of course good government needs good data. Instead of spending money on another general survey the government should clean up and use the huge quantities of data it already holds. Why not start by reconciling National Insurance numbers with employee and Income Tax records? Why have more NI numbers been issued than there are meant to be employees? Why not use the substantial NHS data held on all using the service to model future patterns of service need and capacity better? Why not improve a system of patient records with non UK users receiving bills? Why not ask for consolidated data from Examining Boards and Universities to improve national data over skills and education if they think there are holes in their current knowledge?
It is even more bizarre that the census will not take place in Scotland when on its own logic it needs to be U.K. wide.
I hope this is the last general Census we face. On the general topic of population numbers and migration what we want is a reliable total available monthly, with good systems and border controls to assure us that the numbers are accurate. All those welcome to come legally should be included in the moving totals as permits are issued on arrival, with effective controls against illegals. For the working age population it should be one person, one NI number.
March 21, 2021
BRAVO!
What a splendid, common sense post for a Sunday morning. I can hear the shrieks of mirth in Whitehall from here! There will be comments such as:
” Is Sir J. really suggesting we combine our data-bases….. surely not? ”
” Sir J. is talking heresy again…. if we followed his ideas we’d need only ten percent of the present staffing at the ministry of Administrative Affairs! No.. no.. no, quite impossible.
And so on…..
March 21, 2021
Bravo indeed
Sir Js idea to use the single NI across the whole government structure is sensible
Your NI number should represent your initial ID when accessing government services
Why do we have a duplicate health certificate number, passport number, council tax number, driving licence number, etc etc
March 21, 2021
And government gateway ID on top of all that.
March 21, 2021
@glen cullen; “Your NI number should represent your initial ID when accessing government services”
I don’t think that is possible, your allocated NI number alone is not unique as I understand it, hence why HMRC created UTR numbers.
Actually the idea that there should be one single point of entry for such personal data, either as citizen or govt dept, is quite frightening, akin to an online business keeping log-in details, real names, addresses and banking details all on one database – a single point of total attack for hackers! We need to stop trying to do everything on the damned cheap!
March 29, 2021
So..having had a visit from the census police…with a threat of a thousand pound fine… I would really love to know why ‘the government ‘ do not already have the details of my birth name,
DOB , marriage , details of my children, my NI number, my NHS number, my passport details, my gender, my qualifications? I could go on, but of course they know all of this, so is it just another tick for compliance..would place a question mark here but I feel it’s superfluous. I am not a conspiracy theorist but enough is enough. Our government is there to serve us, our police force is there to serve and protect, our NHS is there but for the grace of God…please, please stand up for what you know is right. Stay safe xx
March 21, 2021
Indeed why do we a have income tax UTR and a NI number. Why indeed do we have National Insurance (empl. and employee) and Income Tax when they all three just income taxes. The reason is to disguise the rates which can go up to nearly a 70% marginal rate but 45%, 14% and 13% or something like this. So it does not sound quite so bad. Especially as one is paid by the employer so you do not even see it before it comes off your pay.
All these things are essentially parasitic job creation schemes and extra work for the productive making them less productive and often they have to employ even more parasitic workers to comply.
March 21, 2021
@skylark; “Especially as one [tax] is paid by the employer so you do not even see it before it comes off your pay. “
If you think your pay (taxed via PAYE) would increase if the employer contribution were scrapped you are rather naive I fear, your pay would almost certainly remain the same, company profits would rise and thus company owner, directors or shareholder would pay themselves an increased bonus/dividend…
March 21, 2021
the point is that your total cost to your employer includes so your total benefits package is increased by the employers nic and potentially you could be paid more.
March 23, 2021
You are the naĂŻf, jerry. A tax on employment diminishes the amount of money available to pay wages. It’s also a direct disincentive to employment. As a tax it has no virtue, save that of being easy to collect and, as skylark points out, being hidden from those paying it.
March 24, 2021
@John Downes; “A tax on employment diminishes the amount of money available to pay wages”
Your point being what, considering the same applies to profits etc. that could be put into the PAYE wages pot (as some more enlightened companies do), just as you claim scrapped employer contribution to the HMRC could be. It assumes the employer will do the right thing, hence my comment about some people being rather naive.
“[employer contribution tax] has no virtue, save that of being easy to collect and, as skylark points out, being hidden from those paying it.”
Except it is not hidden from the employee, unless said employee is totally clueless about taxation.
March 30, 2021
Jerry, this si rather typical of the socialist/Lefty mindset. In reality some companies might do that. Other ones, more forward thinking would hire more people and or return an additional to their employees.
People are expensive. Replacing an experienced, trained, capable member of staff is incredibly so. Thinking only that companies are greedy applies to no skill/low pay environment. Any other company wants to keep and reward the people it has. Any other idea is just bitterness.
March 22, 2021
Glenn Cullen: “Why do we have a duplicate health certificate number, passport number, council tax number, driving licence number, etc etc”
According to a BBC programme a couple of years ago, you can buy a NI number in any of the major British cities.
Decentralized is a good thing.
Here is something Redwood might put forward in Parliament. If he were interested in freedom.
Change the law such that any information that identifies a given individual is the property of that individual, and may not be bought or sold without the express permission of the individual. Secondly any use of such personal information, makes the organisation liable for fees for the use of that information – unless provided a waiver by the individual concerned.
March 21, 2021
Peter
Agree with your words, and Johns posting
The simple fact of the matter is that if Government want to know how many people live in the UK all they have to do is look at the sewerage plant figures on the treatment of human waste, as this figure mirrors the number of people living here.
Just think about it, so simple, so quick, less expensive and likely to be far more truthful than any Census, as it is based on hard facts.
Indeed I seem to remember this is how Slough discovered it had 6,000 more people living in its area that it thought it had a decade ago.
Later aerial photographs highlighted secondary and additional accommodation which had been constructed in many back gardens, with sheds and garages also being converted without planning permission.
March 21, 2021
@Alan Jutson; Just so long as everyone has the same toilet habits, all have the same diet, and if you include water how would you know what is from humans or other sources, such as rainfall from gutters and storm drains that flow into the main foul drainage system, and what about those on soak-away cesspit’s, or some other off-grid disposal system, should they not be counted?!
March 21, 2021
jerry
No not everyone has the same toilet habits, but we do all go to the toilet, which is the very point I am making.
Records of the readings over many months will take care of the difference in diets as you will quickly will be able to work out an average.
No need to measure water or fluids discharges, so rainwater overflows do not even come into the equation, thats why I said you have the “hard factual evidence”
Thus it is the most simple and accurate method available
March 21, 2021
Alan Jutson, and when I said habits I meant that, not just that we all use the toilet! Clue some people eat more than others so pass more than others. Also how much would all the new equipment or process cost to weight the sewage waste “over many months”, more than a postal/online census I suspect, but never mind it can be recovered via our water bills…
If I wanted to guestimate the total population in the UK I would not bother weighing sewage waste, I would tackle the problem from the other end, by seeking the help of the supermarkets given their accurate sales records (even when anonymised), more so now, considering the change in shopping and payment methods over the last 12 months.
March 21, 2021
govt wants to pretend fewer in uk than there are–illegals will not complete the census–hence the census is a massive waste of money
March 21, 2021
Indeed; more government squandering.
March 21, 2021
The government doesn’t have a clue as to how many live on this small island.
As for using the data to plan future services is laughable.
Our local council is busy digging up the High Street and making speed bumps when the surface of the road is disgraceful making it impossible to go above 20mph.
We don’t have enough power generation or housing so what is the point.
Just another box ticking exercise for some highly paid jobsworth.
March 30, 2021
I rather agree… which makes me question – why? I do not believe the census is used for rational purposes. If it is, then any political policy made must start soemthing like this:
“What do we know people want? ”
“Well, the census tells us this, this, and this.”
“Right, let’s do the exact, precise, deliberate opposite for no rational reason whatsoever.”
March 21, 2021
“with effective controls against illegals.” – At that point I fell about laughing. They leave France knowing that once here they’ll never leave, a free life on our taxes ensured. Those who didn’t appreciate the Napier Barracks set fire to it, knowing they’ll be moved to better accommodation – cost not a problem -because “they ain’t payin”.
And did I hear the 5 o clock bbc news right this morning? That PP is giving the AUTOMATIC right to “anyone fleeing war” to “Indefinite leave to remain”? Or in plain English – OPEN DOORS – and the end to ANY control over our borders?
That is one way to stop any illegals – make it that whatever they do, coming here will NOT be illegal. The world can walk/fly in – hands out and laughing their heads off.
March 21, 2021
There is no way these people coming from France are fleeing war. If that were the case they would be grateful to settle in the first country they came to. I can’t imagine how big the bill must be getting to accommodate the hundreds arriving each week and that doesn’t include those we don’t know about. Will they be filling in a census form? Will they heck. We are being taken for fools by this lying government who promised to take control of our borders. Instead we find that we will be asked for more taxes not only to pay back existing debt but to pay for anyone wanting a better life at our expense. I’d like to live in Canada but haven’t got a hope in hell. This government needs to get a grip John. As for the census form. Just more government waste from another overpaid quango which will do nothing to address the real problems we face.
March 21, 2021
Not so sure you could make it to Canada in a rubber dingy, but I suppose you could always have a go.
March 21, 2021
You are obsessed by the very small number of people leaving France in boats.
By far and away the majority of unlawful immigration – many, many times more – comes from people landing in their thousands normally at airports on visas, from all over the world, and then simply not leaving.
You are so very, very easily manipulated, quite evidently.
March 21, 2021
If it’s a very small number then no reason to get their cases heard within days and shipped back to France if the fail. You are so very easily duped, quite evidently. Have them all in Cardiff if hat’s what you want.
March 21, 2021
‘no reason not to’
March 21, 2021
@graham1946; “[with such a] very small number then no reason to get their cases heard within days”
Do we really want ‘kangaroo courts’ here in the UK, think about the precedent such a system would create, it’s bad enough now when so many assume guilt upon an allegation being made, but at least our legal system (in most cases) protects the accused until due process is complete.
Should someone make a serious allegation against you would you really only want a few days to prepare your case/defence [1], just because the baying mob want speedy ‘justice’?
[1] in a language and legal system you perhaps might not understand
March 21, 2021
deport them all–they can claim from elsewhere at their cost–oz system
March 22, 2021
@terry sullivan; Deport them were?
March 21, 2021
It is indeed the case: whether it is 700,000 per year as claimed by a contributor of this blog the other day or 362,000 as discussed by the ONS for 2019, the number is at least 50 to 100 times bigger than the few thousands that the eagle-eyed ones from Kent (or readers of the Sun or the Express) talk about day in day out. But has ridicule ever killed anybody?
Asylum seekers do not have to settle in the first safe country: the series of papers/conventions discussing this question includes respectively: 1951 Geneva Convention on status of refugees, amended by 1967 Protocol to the Convention, Dublin II(2003), Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants) Act 2004. Finally what is expected from asylum seekers in the UK is detailed in âAsylum support: UK rights and expectations (2/10/2019)â on gov.uk.
As for âBrexitâ becoming a word used out of a British context, we are getting there, see todayâs Observer: âAs bad as Brexit: Turkey faces currency crisis as Erdogan sacks bank chiefâ.
And arenât you happy that the Government is taking control of our borders by preventing you to take any holiday outside Britain?
March 21, 2021
MIC if it’s illegal then it’s all wrong and I don’t condone any of it. I am sure BigNeil is as aware as I am of what you say but we are talking about those coming from France on this occasion. If you read and understood then your comment woukdnt be necessary.
March 21, 2021
Thank you for pointing that out Martin – surprisingly I agree with you – ‘overstays’ are not good either. But two wrongs don’t make a right.
Not only are the boat crossings very dangerous but they are also very much based on the knowledge that our record in returning these people is extremely poor. We have legal ways of entering this country and paying gangsters to smuggle people into this country isn’t one of them.
March 21, 2021
“You are obsessed by the very small number of people leaving France in boats.”
On the contrary, it is the not very small number of people in boats who are determined to reach the UK. They enter the EU in Greece or Italy, and find themselves in “the most magnificent human project since Man came down out of the trees” and do they stay there, in that Heaven on Earth?
No, they keep going on, through Austria, Germany and France, ignoring the attractions of the EU’s unimaginably high quality of life, its guaranteed Fraunch white wine and Italian Gorgonzola, and then they quite literally risk their very lives, and pay cash to gangmasters, to paddle across the Channel, knowing very well that some won’t make it.
And you say that this is *our* obsession? Have you tried explaining that to them?
March 21, 2021
B,
There are no controls against illegals. Pure spin and lies. Home Office under May and Rudd made clear hundreds of thousands lost to the system! Where do they go? Do they fill in their census! Another record this week of the number of modern slave trade cases! Another that 10,400 foreign criminals released from prison were not deported as they should have been!
March 21, 2021
Seeking asylum is never illegal. You could arrive by carrier pigeon to seek asylum and it would be legal.
Whilst the xenophobic Faragists and Little Englanders who have taken over the Tory party continue to spew their anti-foreigner bile the majority in this country remain decent people.
Of course we should provide a safe haven to those fleeing war. If you are that worried about space we could make room by sending you to wherever they came from.
March 21, 2021
Any annual limits Andy?
100,000?
500,000?
1,000,000?
The desire to flee war torn poor and dreadful nations and to come to the UK is an ambition for many hundreds of millions.
March 21, 2021
There’s a nice bit of arse about face logic. YOU want them here so YOU make room for them. Ta-ta.
How much immigration a year did you say you want? Where are the houses to be built? Willing to share your house? Thought not. 80% of demand for new houses comes from the increase in population caused by immigration each year. Not all of us want the country to be ever more covered in houses and ever more densely populated. But, hold on a cotton-picking minute, what we want does not count. It is only what you want that counts.
March 21, 2021
What exactly is going on in the EU if people can come from the EU demanding asylum and claiming that their lives are in danger?
March 21, 2021
When I filled in my census form, I went to the feedback section and told them it was a waste of everybody’s time as they have no clue how many millions of illegals there are and they will never complete the form. As usual only the law abiding get to do it and face a ÂŁ1000 fine if they don’t. No action taken over illegal immigration except the ludicrous suggestion by Priti Hopeless of sending them abroad to wait, no doubt in a manner they will find acceptable. How many of the 60,000 kept in hotels have had their cases heard, refused and deported? None is my guess. Why not just tell them all illegals will not be granted assylum and get cracking on sending them to France. Change the law if necessary, they do it pretty quick to harass us. It is just a bonanza for dodgy lawyers at our expense.
March 21, 2021
Stop legal aid for illegal immigrants. I can’t get it for free or a 4* Hotel at taxpayers expense. Not one deported since Christmas.
March 21, 2021
The world can walk/fly in… Except for our legitimate spouses of foreign nationality who have to satisfy health, financial and language requirements and pay significant fees as well.
March 21, 2021
Quite – it cost me ÂŁ4K plus flights to and from an embassy in my wife’s country and having moved back here after living in her country for six years, I had to re-establish my life here before it was feasible to apply.
We should have just turned up on tourist visas and disappeared or taken a holiday in France and hired a boat.
March 21, 2021
In comparison to our present totalitarian predicament a census seems like very small potatoes.
Not the most obvious battle to fight at the moment surely?
When faced with a magpie ( way too scary to tackle) a cat simply pretends it is not there!
March 21, 2021
Well, it seems to have worked here with people having been distracted from the brexit shambles.
In fact brexit should soon replace such words.
We’ll know that people have finally understood when football commentators use it as in “well, the goalie made a complete brexit of it there, and United are now three nil down”
March 21, 2021
It won’t be brexit – it will be a total EU….
March 21, 2021
Or maybe âBorisâ?
March 21, 2021
Correction: âWell the goalie made a complete Brexit of it and United are three nil down, thanks to own goals scored by their elderly supporters.â
March 21, 2021
Just like the magnificent way the EU handled their vaccine programme, rubbished the AZ vaccine then says it wants to stop delivery to the UK so it can have it all. They already have several million doses they have not used due to their total incompetence. And you reckon Brexit is bad?
March 21, 2021
The EU did not rubbish the AstraZeneca vaccine. The EMA said throughout it worked and was safe. Regulators in a number of sovereign states – including both EU and non EU countries – briefly suspended the AZ jab over concerns that in very rare cases it led to clotting near the brain. These concerns have proven true – and guidance is now issued warning people to seek medical help if they have headaches for four days after getting the jab. This is how regulation is supposed to work.
It is also claimed that the EU has 7 million unused AZ doses. At the current rate of EU countries vaccination of 1.3m per day this will last until Friday.
March 21, 2021
Macron rubbished the vaccine saying it wasn’t fit for use by the over 65s. How wrong he was. Totally irresponsible.
March 21, 2021
Aye, that’s national leaders playing games to their own national electorates for you eh?
What’s that to do with any European Union institution?
March 21, 2021
I canât disagree with you.
But would you want to rejoin the EU?
March 21, 2021
It seems to me that “Shambles” is in Europe at the moment Martin – although you would obviously choose to ignore that inconvenient fact.
March 21, 2021
+1
March 21, 2021
Or when you say, MiC, the EU have made a right Brexit of the vaccine rollout.
March 21, 2021
Good morning.
I agree. A complete waste of time. But at least they now know what gender you identify yourself most closely with đ Because that is what really is important. /sarc
The Census. Brought to you by another QUANGO, the ONS.
March 21, 2021
I do hope that when it is discovered that those claiming to be a different sex (none of this gender nonsense) to that which they were born is a few thousand at most out of a population of 75 million then we can disregard them as a consideration in anything other than agitation.
That would indeed be something useful to come out of this exercise.
March 21, 2021
+1
March 21, 2021
One would hope so. But I doubt it.
March 21, 2021
JR makes the assumption that information is not pooled in one place against citizens. Why does the local authority or Food Agency for that matter need to be able to watch your website browser for the sites you go on?
Interesting how this totalitarian govt wants every bit of information to watch you but allows totally open borders for mass immigration and Home Office claims it cannot find them!
March 21, 2021
I looked everywhere for the box that would tell them that we still have an outside loo – but couldn’t find it. No questions about what’s in my Shed either – very puzzling priorities…
March 21, 2021
It is so oppressive living in UK now with this hateful government. . Govt always breathing down your neck, interfering snooping (includes useless census) , bullying , abusing our kids with gender confusion, testing jabbing muzzling ; don’t do this, do that; wouldn’t mind if it was for a good necessary or useful reason, nobody in power ever sticks up for us, TPTB hate their own people. I hate it here now. Britain used to be a good place to live but wrecked by self serving politicians. Wish we could get them all off our backs and be left alone to get on with our lives.
March 22, 2021
I hear it’s quite nice in North Korea at this time of year Mary.
March 21, 2021
Old census records are wonderful.
I would regret the loss of that magic for future generations.
Except that all norms have been wiped away by governments.
There is nothing left to record.
âNothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.â
from Ozymandias by Percy Bysshe Shelley.
March 21, 2021
Or, on a slightly more life-affirming note, reminding us of the transience of this strange time that we’re living through:
What is Stonehenge? It is the roofless past;
Man’s ruinous myth; his uninterred adoring
Of the unknown in sunrise cold and red;
His quest of stars that arch his doomed exploring.
And what is Time but shadows that were cast
By these storm-sculptured stones while centuries fled?
The stones remain; their stillness can outlast
The skies of history hurrying overhead.
Stonehenge, by Siegfried Sassoon.
(I’ve learnt this by heart, and recite it to myself when I wobble.)
March 21, 2021
Very nice!
Actually âOzimandiasâ too is fairly optimistic..the poem suggests that.human art/creativity will outlast these ephemeral politicians and their wiles.
Did you know that John Byng ( Viscount Torrington) thought it would be a good idea to turn Salisbury Plain into a sort of hot balloonâairportâ in the 1790s? Probably would have flattened Stonehenge.
The âeliteâ are always with us, ready with their callous destruction.
March 21, 2021
An astute response, made all the more painful by your username.
March 21, 2021
+1
March 21, 2021
The supermarket loyalty schemes have much more accurate data than the census.
March 21, 2021
As you say, they have this all this information already in dispersed form. Do they plan to put it through a super computer and lie detector to check on its veracity. As you imply there is no way of discovering accurately how many illegal immigrants we have or where they reside.
When you consider how much information they already have and combine it with bank records, store card records, and location via mobile phones and CCTV, why do they pussy foot around with the idea that a national identity card or even a vaccination passport is an intrusion on ones privacy. Does this not confirm that such thinking is born of ignorance or hypocracy.
March 21, 2021
I agree the State wants far too much personal information. I also understood the Census was originally set up to establish the population size, which is surely a waste of time now, given the ‘open doors’ policy which has, over the last decade, allowed millions illegal migrants to just waltz in?
Playing devils advocate, what is the point of the State claiming it knows the size of the population, when they admit they don’t know how illegals are here!
As someone above commented, the supermarkets however, have been able to provide a far more accurate figure for decades and it hasn’t cost the taxpayer a penny. But heyho, the civil service and all these quangos have got to justify their huge tax funded existence by becoming more and more nosey.
March 21, 2021
We have never had an open doors policy. Which you would have learned quite quickly had you tried to get into the country without a passport.
Sure, we have had governmental incompetence – not knowing who is here and why. But that is what happens when you vote for an incompetent Tory government. Our borders have never been open. Our government has usually been useless.
March 21, 2021
So you want the borders closed then Andy? Make up your mind. We did have totally open borders to 27 countries when in the EU and nothing has been done about it since we left (you say January 2020). How do the dinghy people get in without any documents, let alone a passport? They are taxied in from mid channel after the French escort them there. You do come out with some tripe. Only honest people trying to come in without a passport would have difficulties, as I have found when I wanted to bring in a friend from Africa for a holiday.
March 21, 2021
Can’t get in without a passport? Andy you are drinking too much. What a ludicrous statement.
March 22, 2021
Maybe via RoI/NI?
When it was possible to travel, whether coming via LHR, LGW, Southampton, Tilbury, Eurostar or Eurotunnel (i.e., coming through an established border checkpoint) I have always been asked to show my passport.
So please tell us how you travel so you can enter the UK without presenting a passport/photo ID to the authorities. Are you using private plane, yachting to hidden coves, swimming the Channel? In which case I am not fortunate/wealthy/adventurous enough to be able to do such things.
March 21, 2021
Good points – but you’re a bit late, aren’t you, Sir John? The cost of this exercise is enormous. I question why it wasn’t delayed a year or two. If the Commons hasn’t debated the census process recently, perhaps it should. I’ll look out for someone asking JRM for a debate at the next House of Commons Business Statement.
March 21, 2021
In this case I tend to agree with Sir John. I was particularly struck in how vague some of the questions were. Asked if I had a degree but not whether I was member of a professional institution. If I had any GCSEs but no acknowledgement that some of us have loads of GCEs. Full name of my self employment business (which HMRC know anyway) but only a vague description of what I did in it. But asked repeatedly whether there was anybody else hiding in a cupboard in my house and couldn’t accept there was just me.
I have completed many censuses through my life, this one is the vaguest and pointless ever.
March 21, 2021
Completely agree with your comments. What a waste of money but “employment” for jobsworths.
I hope, Sir John, that you will have the opportunity to make your points in the Commons to a government minister.
March 21, 2021
Why bother with the cost and bother of a census?
Just ask Facebook, they know everything about all of us.
March 21, 2021
Good questions about bad questions. This intrusive state is out of control. We should prepare ourselves against the artificial stupidities that, no doubt, will be conjured out of this data bank.
March 21, 2021
Where were the questions that should need answers for social policy?
Have you been married before, or divorced, or separated?
How many children are yours, how many as a step-parent?
Are you satisfied with your childrens’ education, nursery, primary, secondary?
How many times have you changed employer?
How many times have you needed benefits to support income?
How many addresses have you had in last 10 years?
How many cars do you own?
Normal transport for work, car, bus, cycle, train, walk?
Are you happy with main supplier being a supermarket, or would you rather town centre independents?
March 21, 2021
Well, the census is certainly not about the illegally imported population and their future families, or the public services the rest of us will be required to fund to support them. I suspect it’s simply another costly exercise in “but we’ve always done it this way” to give people in non-jobs something to do for their ÂŁ100k+ salaries!
March 21, 2021
According to the ONS, ~ 5.5 million people worked in the public sector in 2019 – compared to a (pre-pandemic) private sector headcount of ~ 27.0 million. About 20.3% of the workforce is working in jobs funded by the taxpayer/Bank of England.
All these jobsworths need something to do and so Ministers build huge civil service empires administering their departments and processing the data that you describe. A major product of all this mouse-pushing and clicking are reports analysing the data – which are so complex that only the authors understand them – and which the government imediately ignores in favour of political considerations.
Due to the enormous number of undocumented migrants who have managed to get in here – who have somehow been issued with the dodgy NI numbers that you mention – the census will produce no meaningful information whatsoever. How many of them work in the Home Office?
March 21, 2021
When you put it like that, JR, it makes no sense. Well said.
I’d always thought it was about infrastructure planning for housing and transport, ETC, so yes, it would be good to know what the justifications really are and how they really intend to use this data.
With the risk of a hefty fine for those that do not complete the form, we should be most concerned at the growth in government demands on us, as it becomes ever more evident that we are the servants of the state.
March 21, 2021
One point of a census is tradition. They offer a continuity of information.
Additional questions, such as those about sexuality, are a reflection of the fashion of the times.
You state âInstead of spending money on another general survey the government should clean up and use the huge quantities of data it already holds.â This sounds fine in principle but even the computerisation of NHS records cost a fortune and was done badly.
So while I agree in principle. I would want the task undertaken by existing full-time civil servants rather than incompetent, overpaid, here-today, gone-tomorrow consultants.
March 21, 2021
I think we’re all agreed that half the public sector could disappear overnight without trace and it would have a positive impact on our lives. The fact that this shenanigans continues after 10 years of the Conservatives means we are crying out for a change. So much waste. This is but a tip of the tip of the iceberg.
March 21, 2021
Tsk tsk you will be alienating your Libertarian eccentrics with this talk of the State compounding data ..Orwellian Nightmare ..they will mutter. I agree though , everyone knows everything there is to know about me already.
Why not have those (overwhelmingly popular ) ID cards back on the table ? Put this information on them . Security, welfare immigration and identity security would be greatly advanced and while we are at it lets have your up to date Vaccine compliance on it as well . A world in which I can travel freely avoiding the stupid, contagious and criminal element , would be fine by me subject , to sunsets as they currently exist on your record and so on.
What the Libertarian will never understand is that freedom is thing we only create with by rules and order. Whilst I have learnt to play the Piano ,..they sit on it . Which of us is free?
March 21, 2021
I was an indentured management trainee. Was it an apprenticeship? I didnât complete it so, as far as the census is concerned, who knows? I certainly donât because my wife filled it out and put in the envelope and sealed it.
As for professional qualifications. I have worked as a land surveyor, site engineer and project manager on major building and civil engineering jobs. I ran my own desktop publishing business and became expert in using programs including Photoshop, Illustrator and Quark Xpress. I then moved into software development and ran my own business offering SAAS (software as a service) to clients. To do this I had to become expert in HTML, JavaScript, Visual Basic, C#, transact SQL, database development and management and server hosting and infrastructure.
All self taught and without a qualification greater than an âOâ level. Oh, I am also a self taught musician and was pro for a short period in the 1970s.
Again, what my wife put on the census form I have no idea. I didnât like to ask her what she thought she knew about me.
I found it to be an invasive load of nonsense and was glad when I saw my wife had completed it and sealed the envelope. If the thought or truth police come round, she will be to blame.
March 21, 2021
You’re beginning to sound like a normal person asking questions like that.
March 21, 2021
I recently applied for a credit card. Havenât done that, or opened a bank account, for many years. They wanted to know the ins and outs of a catâs backside about me and tie up my address records and all manner of other data. How do people who are here illegally function? And if the manage now, what will happen when we go cashless?
March 21, 2021
Bravo! You have discovered that living here illegally is incredibly hard. They do not get benefits. They cannot have a bank account or use services.
Any work they are able to do has to be cash in hand. They do not have employment rights. They canât live a normal life. The grandmaster who brings them here – usually at great expense – will give them somewhere to live – usually cramped, dingy, dangerous and expensive. The are told where to work and what they can do. They may get a bit of pocket money but thatâs it.
It is basically slavery.
Many people on here seem to think illegals live the life of Riley. Actually – they are mostly victims of the most despicable trade. The trade in people.
March 21, 2021
Yet strangely Andy, you are against sending illegal immigrants back home or stopping them coming in.
March 21, 2021
@Andy
Yes, thank you for explaining what we already know. That illegal immigration – which you so encourage – creates a black market economy which undercuts the wages of people here legally. Bravo! You have realised the consequence of your addiction to immigration – both legal and illegal – at last.
March 21, 2021
Andy, stop! I’LL be feeling sorry for them soon. Sob, sob.
March 21, 2021
And that is why the dinghy people are so irksome. They are illegal but cosseted.
March 21, 2021
What do you think about the EU threatening to block export of vaccines?
The pharma companies must be questioning the wisdom of siting their vaccine production in the EU, if the Commission is prone to disrupting their global trade.
Reply The pharma companies must be celebrating production in UK with no export controls and plenty of UK government support to get into production and then plenty of UK buying of product.
March 21, 2021
Sshh leave the Eu alone, I donât think they understand the British psyche.
March 21, 2021
The US has not allowed export of vaccines at all. What do you think of that?
The UK government claims it has not blocked vaccine exports but we know precisely none have been exported from the UK?
Meanwhile EU countries have exported tens of millions of doses all over the world. Including to the US and U.K. – which have not reciprocated.
EU countries were concerned about vaccine nationalism – which is why they worked together to procure vaccines. The failure of both the US and UK to share supplies – whilst the EU has shared – shows the 27 were right. They appreciate Little England has failed epically over Covid. But they will not allow British failure to now kill Europeans.
They should immediately block all vaccine exports to the UK until AZ and the British government stop behaving so embarrassingly badly.
March 21, 2021
The U.K. has not blocked exports of vaccines, why do you repeat these eurocrat lies? The U.K. simply got its act together and has contracts in place which are being fulfilled. The U.K. is exporting – or rather companies in the U.K. are exporting – essential ingredients for vaccines. Companies in the EU – not the EU – are fulfilling contractual obligations.
The former PM of Finland, Alexander Stubb summed up well the other day whatâs going on in the EU – this is how politicians behave in a panic.
The politically motivated smear campaign against AZ and its vaccine and the lies and threats of preposterous EU figures like von der Leyen, macron et al will cause thousands of unnecessary deaths.
March 21, 2021
That went well didn’t it? Presumably you will refuse your dose when the time comes? It may not come at all if the EU commandeer the produce of private companies. Where is the EU belief ion free trade? The EU have exported precisely nothing, it is the manufacturers who have done that to fulfil orders which were placed 3 months before the EU got around to thinking about it. Also, you have said, the EU paid next to nothing for theirs so why should they fulfil those orders in preference to someone who paid the right price and actually invested in the research and manufacture, whilst the EU played silly games? We should stop any travel to the EU until their vaccine programme is completed ( about 2025 at current rate) so they don’t infect our people. The original infection in the UK came from Italy.
March 21, 2021
Well said Graham
March 21, 2021
Perhaps they might first start using the several million doses they have lying in stock unused.
March 21, 2021
Andy, the EU wanted to move manufacturing around Europe to suit their grand plan, we lost scores of manufacturing plants to Europe with big financial contributions from the EU to re-site them. They canât want manufacturing plants in the EU then say they canât export when these companies have already taken the orders, very early in the case of the UK whilst other Countries dithered and delayed and quibbled over price and were trying to bet on which one was going to be successful. The UK supplied sufficient vaccines to totally inoculate Gibraltar, we read an article about the number of Southern Irish whom at one time got a British NHS number getting treatment in the UK at any time in the past going across the border to get their vaccines. If we ordered first and gave our quantities then those orders need to be HONOURED. You are told when an aircraft is in emergency landing to put your own mask on first then save everyone else.
The UK should never have allowed essential manufacturing bases to reside in the EU, they need to bring more of them back in-house. The Brits have always been big welcomers of foreign made products from cheese to wine, vans to pasta, flowers to bacon (often to the detriment of ourselves) this will wake the sleepy Brits up to be more like the French or Italians so carry on encouraging your EU to not honour the orders and watch the backlash unfold.
March 21, 2021
The UK actually supplies raw materials to the Pfizer factory to make the stuff. Andy, why don’t you get anything right? Pfizer have warned the EU that if they stop exports to the UK and the UK responds in kind it will not be able to produce their vaccine in the EU. The EU are children, playing with fire and they have a very poor President who keeps making gaffes.
March 21, 2021
It’s good to see that we have brought back the British workers we loaned to Holland as we ramp up vaccine production here. The EU conveniently forgets that the development of the vaccine has been a joint effort.
March 21, 2021
A sad post.
An authoritarian human rights destroying PM, the coronavirus act, football vaccine certificates,the policing bill, (Bad? ed) policing, perpetual house arrest …
Tory MPs could have removed and still could remove the ‘dictator’ at the top, and belatedly restore liberty and human decency to the country. Tory MPs should act to stop such vileness ever happening again. This bleat about the census is just part of the propaganda game performed by a handful of MPs to pretend there is opposition to extreme authoritarian rule – sad, pathetic and frightening.
March 21, 2021
+1
March 21, 2021
I asked my daughter last night if sheâd completed her census on line.
âWhatâs a census?â
âDidnât you get a letter about the Censusâ, I asked.
âNoâ came the reply.
We explained how to obtain a number so she could complete it online today because itâs always people like us that get the threatened ÂŁ1000 fine.
Thatâs when I discovered the son in Scotland doesnât have one this year. Unbelievable, are we a United Kingdom or not?! So information on covid and furlough wonât be there from Scotland is it so govt can disguise people movement for another year.
Just what does it provide? You are right John, PAYE workers get their taxes reported digitally on a monthly basis now. The self-employed are online. We all get a NHS number to get a jab I donât understand why this number you are born with doesnât follow you through life and becomes your NI number. New arrivals would get a number on application with a designator indicating the year they applied.
The Windrush people why couldnât they just be checked against previous Census records, we were told many had been here for at least three census checks. Or had they left for many years and then came back to the UK? I donât understand why they didnât have census records, doctors visit records, tax records, dental records, driving licences, council tax payments, school records for them and their children, electoral registrations, social security benefits records. If this Census check doesnt work then what is the point of it? Did someone check the Census of the Windrush people?
As you say it would have been better to invest in software to merge the multitude of data you already have on everyone. Then send each person their record to check and add or correct anything that was missed.
March 21, 2021
The snooper state may well have all the information it needs on us, but its systems show every sign of being incapable of making any effective use of it. I recently had to call an ambulance to my home, and it proved necessary to give my address and my wife’s date of birth no less than three times, on every occasion recorded digitally, so it was in theory already available on an efficient system. I did reflect that if they did not know the address, it was difficult to understand how they had got there.
Most of the information collected on the current census form seems vague or irrelevant, and I noted it lacked the most helpful item for genealogists, which must be a major use of the census, which is the subject’s place of birth.
March 21, 2021
The bizarre part of all this and the Government doesn’t seem to be able to get its head around it. Every single piece of personal date collected from UK Citizens is arming foreign adversaries with the ability to ‘destroy’ UK society.
There is an endless list of UK security blunders just being created to make it a little easier for those involved in paper pushing jobs, along with the police local councils – its a very long list.
A couple of simple ones on why this is wrong, the extra security now required by banks etc of sending out log in codes/pins actually weakens security. These little texted codes are sent as ‘plain'(the Government is against encrypted messaging) text by a messaging service, all messaging services in the UK are foreign owned and domiciled and part of their T&C’s states they will read your messages, they will share this information with their partners and associates so as to be able to provide you with a better service( some of that really means targeted advertising). A similar scenario exist with Social Media. The point to remember they already know who you are, who your friends are, associates and work colleagues are and they know very well what you do. So tying your login pin, to your bank details is a doddle – the UK Government made it possible
The bit ‘you’ the user doesn’t ever get to know is who the partners or associates are in the T&C’s and how they then collate and use your data for. In essence our Government is providing the Chinese and Russian Governments with detailed information about every one in the UK that works in the UK’s defence and security industry. For a Government to even suggest that is not happening in naĂŻve on their part. The Government just doesn’t know and has no way of knowing as all data personal and other is removed from UK jurisdiction for processing.
Our own Security Services develop pictures on risk potential, commercial potential and everything else by taking a little bit from here there and every where from our foreign adversary’s friend and foe, the collate it The stupid bit is for Government to feed the other side in these scenarios with the same forensic details as a matter of principle
The only ‘secrete’ is the one you for the moment are able to keep in your head.
March 21, 2021
Am not living in your jurisdiction but can tell you that in the past I have purposefully taken annual holidays with foreign travel included at the time of census- I think governments, all governments, have far too much information about us already.
March 21, 2021
I donât mind filling in the census. It is a useful snapshot for future generations.
And although this authoritarian government is sinister, it lacks the competence to do anything really dark with the data.
People who believe in huge government new world order conspiracies have clearly missed the fact that the clowns who run our country lack the ability to order face masks. Even if they want to control everything we do they are not competent enough to do so.
March 21, 2021
Did you explain that you live here under constant protest, and after at least 30 years you wish you had gone to live on the ‘near continent’?
March 21, 2021
Don’t forget Ms. Patel is busy collecting records about your internet browsing, down to the last typo. Another one to add to your list.
March 21, 2021
Correction, she is facilitating the collection of data for foreign powers
March 21, 2021
Anything, and everything that the authorities do to spy ( surveillance of ) on society is as a consequence laid bare for anyone any where to have the same access. This is the WWW, open to all. It is no longer a question if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. The question now is, is State spying an acceptable as a routine part of a free civilized society. The next thing they will want is for every one to have video cams in their bedrooms to access if your activities to see if the comply.
All surveillance if it exists should be a matter for a Judge in a Court to decide if there is just cause.
March 21, 2021
I live on a boat snd do not accept post
Now what?
March 21, 2021
I duly filled in my Census to comply with the law
…
Please just leave us alone
March 21, 2021
There was talk of the 2011 census being the last for the reasons that you explain now. With everyone busy with Covid, did someone forget to cancel the arrangements?
I shall not be making a census return and if prosecuted would expect summary dismissal after I read out to the judge today’s diary. Thank you!
March 21, 2021
90% of the census is daft, but that doesn’t give one the right to be a law onto oneself. We have to follow the law unless it’s something that is of really significant, personal moral value (and of course which we could pay a penalty for).
If we all took the law into our hands all the time and over minor issues like this (and there are some bad laws – including local government), then everything would be even more chaotic.
March 21, 2021
If we all complied like meek sheep when faced with official stupidity for no good purposes it risks only encouraging more of the same.
March 21, 2021
Do I have to travel back from Egypt?
March 21, 2021
Having just begun researching my family history I have discovered that one of the best methods of enquiry is the census. You learn who is living with whom and where, their age and occupation. It also helps to confirm whether you are following the correct family links in your wider researches. The latter point is particularly pertinent when the family names involved are common rather than unusual. I realise it is only a snapshot in time – I have wished they were more frequent – but is an invaluable tool in finding out how the social history of a family evolves over time.
March 21, 2021
2020 and 2021 are atypical years. I really do question the value of much of the data being gathered today.
March 21, 2021
I now have the Michael O’Leary Test (comparing the effectiveness of what happens in politics / government to business). What benefit does this census data have to a country as someone in business would think about such data in a business such as Ryanair (the analogy isn’t 100% precise as politics isn’t the exact same as business but there are similarities at least in terms of strategy / tactics / goals in why you set out to accumulate and use date. I can see little point in 90% of the census. Just bureaucratic nonsense.
March 21, 2021
Correct – apart from the data being an interesting footnote in history, is there any direct link to any past census has lead to a direct government decision
March 21, 2021
Topic of the day/week?
from BBC website.
The European Union should not “build walls” around the distribution of vaccines and should seek to meet its contractual “obligations”, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has told the BBC. His comments follow a threat by the European Commission to block vaccine exports to countries including the UK.
Separately, Mr Wallace did not rule out extending a ban on overseas holidays amid rising cases in other countries.
President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, said last week that if Covid vaccine supplies in Europe do not improve, the bloc “will reflect whether exports to countries who have higher vaccination rates than us are still proportionate”.
Mr Wallace told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show that both the EU and the UK should live up to their contractual “obligations”.
The defence secretary said: “The European Union stands for the rule of law… and that means we should all abide by our contracts. We are legally all obliged, both the buyer and the purchaser.
“The European Commission also recognises that the world is watching.”
March 21, 2021
Vaccinations – Europe has demonstrated how so much of Europe is governed by left-wing / liberal, ineffectual bureucrats.
Germany is a great nation, Germans great people. But one of their great weaknesses is that they can be really bureaucratic. Much of the European Union was built on the German’s love for bureaucracy.
March 21, 2021
It wasnât the Defence Secretary Ben Wallace MP finest hour
March 21, 2021
What no Census in Scotland. Pity I have just filled ours in. I should have said I was an Ethnic Minority and exempt đ
Perhaps it would be better next time to ask Amazon, Google etc. they have more data on everyone đ
Not a bad form as such to fill in though
March 21, 2021
Great article.
I found much of the census nonsense
March 21, 2021
Although I agree with you, it seems the main complaint of many here is not so much about having to answer these census questions every 10 years, as the fact that the government has so much intrusive data about us.
March 21, 2021
To claim benefits people need to have a National Insurance number. Having one therefore does not mean they work or have ever worked. There are many bogus NI numbers because for DWP and HMRC to even carry out checks on a person they have to be allocated a number. Working Familiesâ Tax Credit used to have the right idea where they issued a temporary number until the checks were completed. Having worked for HMRC I know there are many people with more than one NI number, there are even multiple people with the same NI number. There are many deceased people where their relatives are still claim benefits for them, especially Retirement Pensions paid abroad. They are often found out when reaching 100 years old and the checks for the Queenâs birthday cards is done.
The only use I can see for the census is for people researching their family tree in another 100 years.
Many people have said previously that the best guestimate for the current UK population is to measure the volume of waste going through the sewage treatment plants. I would tend to agree.
It will be interesting to compare the number of people who register a disability on the Census with the numbers claiming disability benefits.
March 21, 2021
What is the point of the Census? The way it is implemented, it cant tell, inform or confirm anymore than what is already known. Its just a control mechanism to say ‘we are in charge’
There is nothing to identify true household numbers, true amount of people in the country or anything about those that don’t want to be counted. How can you possibly fine some one that you don’t no is there. If you don’t want to be part of it, you wont. That inconclusion means any data collected is redundant.
All this census does is keep people employed with taxpayer money when the taxpayer has better things to spend their money on.
March 21, 2021
That is a very interesting thing for a member of the government to say.
My wife, who filled in the census for us, was outraged by some of the questions. She took some chaps to task who were in the local town square – high vis jackets – something to do with getting everyone to complete the census – and one of them told her ‘just don’t fill in any questions you don’t want to answer’. Hmmm.
March 21, 2021
The census asks about what kind of dwelling one is in – detached, semi detached, flat etc. but does not have an option which many people live in namely granny annexes – who designed this form?
March 21, 2021
The reason that the many bureaucracies do not share information is that this practice maximises the number of Civil Servants and bureaucrats employed. Work expands to fill the number of employees available. Furthermore, information is more and more being collected using the internet and we have no say in the matter. The internet is a SLOW INEFFICIENT medium for the user. Governments and large corporations assume that the TIME of respondents has a value of ZERO and besides, being control freaks, they positively love bossing people around. More and more internet sites are saying “Your privacy is important to us”, meaning “Your privacy is NOT important to us”. Cookies are used to make it easier to pass your data onto Big Data companies, after which it is used to assist advertisers to fill our e-mail inboxes with junk. Productivity in the UK economy is overestimated because time spent compulsorily using the internet is not included in work time.
I’ve just finished entering the census data for the four people who live in my household. It took a bit longer than the 10 minutes promised, as much as anything because the questions include politically correct questions to be answered one by one with no attempt to use logic to link replies. For example, I am asked what sex I was born – male – and whether I still classify myself as a man. That’s axiomatic – a man who has had his testicles surgically removed is a eunuch, not a woman.
Hopefully, Sir John will now back my campaign to cleanse the Augean stables, to purge all pro-EU people from all positions of power and influence, and to move steadily towards minimal government. He might do well to start with CCHQ, who denied receiving my cheque for Conservative Party membership in 2020, in spite of having cashed it. As a result I am no longer a member of the Conservative Party – and it’s staying that way until Wokingham Conservative Party promises not to forward any part of my payment to CCHQ.
March 21, 2021
I suppose they didn’t know whether you self- identify as male. Now they do.
March 21, 2021
Each govt dept likes to keep its own database silo to indicate how important it is but reconciling these historic ones is challenging as is their different security and integrity levels.
Shocking that the Census lacks integrity devoid of Scotland as it’s totally pointless without all UK residents and waste of money.
Without the litmus test also of only one per person National Insurance number “Straw Men” exist or is that “Straw Persons” in bulk!
March 21, 2021
Under this government chaos is winning
Reports of the nasty police stopping an anti police demo in Bristol. and the army to be cut by another 10 thousand, lockdown to continue for another 6 months and illegal immigrants being allow indefinite leave to stay
The consensus is that Iâm in some weird movie…..please get a grip
March 21, 2021
What’s the point in a census ?
What’s the point in a government !
“Masks and social distancing for some years yet.” According to some nanny PHE scientist on the BBC.
Enough is enough.
March 21, 2021
and no government spokes-person or MP will say thatâs rubbish or that isnât government policy ?