Helping migrants in the UK is a form of overseas aid

The UK has welcomed a large number of migrants in recent years. When considering our overseas aid budget, people should also put into the balance the large numbers of people from dangerous and low income countries we help by supporting them on arrival and then granting them rights to stay and to work. I have always thought the costs of housing and setting up the facilities for migrants should be properly attributed to the overseas aid budget. The international definition of official development assistance allows a country to include some money spent in the donor country helping people from a recipient country.
The EU once estimated that a migrant into the EU received the equivalent of 250,000 Euros in capital as they received a home, access to health care, education, transport and all the other public services provided free at the point of use for them or subsidised. There is no reason to suppose the UK current offer is below this indicative figure. Many migrants are housed in London and other locations where housing is dear. Whilst establishing their right to remain and to work the migrant receives board as well as lodging from the state. Once in work they receive top up benefits if their employment is at least in the first instance lower paid.
Given the number of people coming to the UK as refugees or migrants to live and work, there is a direct cash cost on the state to provide many more social homes, and additional school places and healthcare capacity.

220 Comments

  1. Mark B
    June 7, 2021

    Good morning.

    And what do you think would be the right solution(s) to this problem, Sir John ?

    Reply
    1. Lifelogic
      June 7, 2021

      Deter them from coming by making it very clear they will never be allowed to stay unless they have applied and been accepted before arrival. Then they will not attempt to come. Otherwise the numbers will continue to increase and more will die in the process surely this is obvious?

      But no political will for this exists for this so we just get endless huff and puff from Priti Patel.

      Reply
      1. Nig l
        June 7, 2021

        +1

        Reply
      2. Iain Moore
        June 7, 2021

        We are powerless to deter them while we are a signatory to the UN Convention for Refugees, and while we have the Human Rights Act on the books. Any attempt to deter them will mean us mug Tax Payers paying human rights lawyers to pursue vexatious cases and to run rings around us in the courts with the help of judges.

        Reply
        1. MiC
          June 7, 2021

          So which of your fourteen codified human rights do you want to have taken from you then?

          Incidentally, the HRA’s protections are pretty paltry compared with the those of the written constitutions, of each of the twenty-seven European Union member nations, and they cannot be removed by simple parliamentary majority either, unlike HRA.

          You’re only ever one Act away from tyranny in the UK.

          Reply
          1. SM
            June 7, 2021

            Of course, Martin. That’s why the UK has nurtured so many tyrants, Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, Salazar, Petain, Ceauscescu …. oh, wait …..

          2. jon livesey
            June 7, 2021

            “You’re only ever one Act away from tyranny in the UK.”

            A Rejoin Act, for example?

          3. MiC
            June 7, 2021

            If you were to ask the people of India, say, then they’d tell you that the UK has had its fair share, I think.

          4. Iain Moore
            June 7, 2021

            A functioning democracy is protection against tyranny , not laws, laws are only good as the people applying them.

            As for the Human Rights Act, we have lost a lot of freedoms and rights under it. Habeas corpus, free speech, and they are even trying to legislate about whet thoughts we can have. I would welcome losing the Napoleon legal system of rights bestowed on us and go back to the liberty to do what we liked, other than the stuff it was decided was illegal.

        2. John Hatfield
          June 7, 2021

          Then let us withdraw from the UN Convention for Refugees and the Human Rights Act both of which harm the welfare of the indigenous population.

          Reply
      3. Andy
        June 7, 2021

        That is illegal under international law. Any legal ideas?

        Reply
        1. John Hatfield
          June 7, 2021

          National law trumps international law.

          Reply
        2. Otto
          June 7, 2021

          As is obvious Intl. Law is non binding so no problem.

          Reply
          1. MiC
            June 8, 2021

            Just because there may be an absence of prescribed penalties or an enforcement procedure does not mean that treaties are not binding.

            They absolutely are, and wars have often started owing to their derogation.

      4. Qubus
        June 7, 2021

        Yes, but how do you deter them, legally?

        Reply
        1. Narrow Shoulders
          June 7, 2021

          Put them in secure dormitories with basic rations when they get here and deal with the cases quickly and without favour.

          If there is no benefit to arriving illegally the draw is lessened.

          Reply
        2. Andy
          June 7, 2021

          You deter them legally by fixing the problems which cause them to come in the first place.

          What problems are these? War. Persecution. Terrorism. Oppression. Failed government. Famine. Disease. Climate change. A lack of economic opportunities. Huge inequality.

          It’s almost as if cutting international aid – which helps to mitigate the worst of these problems – is a really, really bad idea which will inevitably lead to even more people seeking asylum in future.

          If people don’t have a reason to leave their homelands most of them never will.

          Reply
          1. SM
            June 7, 2021

            How will foreign aid terminate the religious war in Yemen, or the constant fight between the Kurds and the Turks, or the Taliban’s grip on Afghanistan, or the corrupt governments of Zimbabwe and so many other African countries, or the Syrian civil war, or the extreme suppression of women that is firmly built in to many cultures which we are expected to fully respect in the name of diversity?

          2. John C.
            June 7, 2021

            So, we solve all the world’s problems and make everyone happy. Right, let’s get on with it. Shouldn’t take long.

          3. Paul Cuthbertson
            June 7, 2021

            These so called “migrants” are part of the Globalist plan and have passed through MANY countries before venturing across the channel. All are aware that the UK is a soft touch and the benefits are very good compared to other countries. In addition, why only men and boys?

          4. jon livesey
            June 7, 2021

            So giving foreign aid to Palestine, which they then pass to Iran in payment for rockets, solves a problem?

            Do tell us, Andy, exactly which problem that solves?

          5. Otto
            June 7, 2021

            Andy – ‘If people don’t have a reason to leave their homelands most of them never will.’ When will that be even after massive more aid?

      5. J Bush
        June 7, 2021

        +1

        Reply
      6. Jim Whitehead
        June 7, 2021

        + 1 , Regrettably

        Reply
      7. Timaction
        June 7, 2021

        Indeed. Swift deportation and publicity would also help and the removal of legal aid. As an English taxpayer, I can’t get it for legal action, why should they?

        Reply
        1. Margaretbj
          June 7, 2021

          A tricky one really.Do we help these people stay in their own country by better diplomacy so that they would not flee in the first place or keep paying out for others mistakes

          Reply
      8. Lifelogic
        June 7, 2021

        One thing is surely certain there should be no law enforcing a set % of Overseas Aid as the need for it changes all the time as does the available funds. It should be judged by the conditions at the time.

        Similarly for climate change as the law enables Ministers to say, as they do “we have to do this by law” (for some pointless waste of £trillions on the insane net zero CO2 agenda). No it is MPs job to make rational judgements and abolish these insane laws. Or to defend them if they really think they are remotely rational.

        Reply
  2. No Longer Anonymous
    June 7, 2021

    The reason why I am boycotting this site (and I apologise for coming here during my boycott) is that time and again Andy and MiC can come here with smug delight and slap us all around because of yet another Tory policy that has been dropped or yet another Leftist policy adopted.

    It really is as though Ultra Left Labour has won. And when I hear yet another Tory PM or MP (on winning an election) saying as the opener in their acceptance speech “I have to think about the people who didn’t vote for me.” I despair. When do the Left ever do this ?

    The Channel crisis, while we are masked up and locked down, really has taken the biscuit and the only reason you’re getting away with this ultimate betrayal of promises to voters is that everyone is high on Freedom Day. It isn’t that it’s just a few thousand, it’s that it symbolises the ultimate dismantling of our borders against the express wishes of the voters while the Boris Boot is on our throats.

    My mask comes off on the 21st, end of. I see that very many people have decided it’s Freedom Day already.

    Good for them.

    Now I had better get on with that boycott. Thank you for having me here, Sir John .

    Reply If a couple of angry contributors who disagree with everything I write annoy you I suggest you do not read them. They usually sat the same things everyday to reveal their general displeasure with the U.K. anD its voters.

    Reply
    1. agricola
      June 7, 2021

      Reply to Reply.
      While I get chastised for not subscribing to PC and Woke, whatever it is, perhaps you could invite, the two of ingrained hate for the UK and many in it, to the headmasters desk for a good verbal thrashing.

      Reply
      1. jerry
        June 7, 2021

        @agricola; If you mean Andy, MiC & Newmania, nothing they write shows anything like the “ingrained hate for the UK and many in it” as comments from DOM and some others of a similar ilk do, and here I include the person you replied to. Such people appear to have zero respect for the electorate, be it political or social.

        Reply
        1. Peter2
          June 7, 2021

          Gosh Jerry you are just so in the middle of the middle..
          No bias.
          Just perfect.

          Reply
          1. jerry
            June 8, 2021

            @Peter2; Well at least I do have an opinion, unlike you who just cribs what ever someone else has said and then (t)rolls with it for the next week or more, pointlessly adding to our hosts workload….

        2. Peter2
          June 8, 2021

          Says the person who writes 10 or more sniping contrary posts a day.
          Hilarious Jerry.
          Your sense of self is zero.

          Reply
    2. Roy Grainger
      June 7, 2021

      Compliance is already breaking down ahead of Freedom Day. Michael Gove engages in non-essential travel to Portugal (now amber list), comes in contact with a Covid case, but doesn’t self-isolate either for the travel or the contact. Hundreds of G7 politicans and civil servants (a group at high-risk of contracting Covid based on past experience) arrive from a whole host of amber list countries and totally ignore the quarantine UK requirements – even the G7 name indicates the group-of-six social distancing rules will be binned. So Hancock can huff and puff as much as he wants but on the 21st it’s over as far as I am concerned and I hope all pubs and restaurants behave accordingly.

      Reply
      1. Nig l
        June 7, 2021

        Indeed not forgetting the climate change preaching that will emerge whilst they unnecessarily travel from all parts of the globe contributing to (according to their own views) climate change!

        Reply
    3. turboterrier
      June 7, 2021

      Reply to reply
      Dont just stop reading them, stop replying to them. These people can only operate and feel smug about their action when they get so many responses knowing they are winding every body up. They are more to be pitied than scorned. It was never a crime to be ignorant and offensive, it is only a crime to show it.

      Reply
      1. None of the Above
        June 7, 2021

        Well Said.

        Reply
      2. a-tracy
        June 7, 2021

        turboterrier, sorry but I don’t agree I find them useful muppets they don’t wind me up at all. In fact, I quite enjoy it that they make me sharpen up my thinking. It encourages me to more research, I now record my sources because they put out so many falsehoods. Try to answer their points as I would with people I know in the general face to face conversations that we can’t have anymore because we’re locked up.

        Reply
        1. glen cullen
          June 7, 2021

          Your approach is also my approach

          Reply
    4. jerry
      June 7, 2021

      @NLA; My mask comes off on the 21st, end of. I see that very many people have decided it’s Freedom Day already. “

      Yes, and very selfish people to boot, or just very ignorant…

      Reply
      1. Narrow Shoulders
        June 7, 2021

        I must disagree with you Jerry.

        There are the fearful and the ostentatious wearing masks to show how good and compliant they are.

        In March last year the advice was to avoid prolonged close contact, that advice has not really changed so wearing a mask outside or walking round a shop or to enter and move around a pub is purely for show.

        Sitting on public transport for a prolonged period, or in a taxi or in A & E while waiting for an appointment yes, I can see how that might help but everything else is to make people feel better and for show. So I don’t think those taking them off are really being selfish

        Reply
        1. jerry
          June 8, 2021

          @NS; You appear totally clueless when it comes to even the most basic infection control. You seem to think it only possible to catch CV19 from either prolonged, or intimate direct, exposure?…

          Reply
          1. Narrow Shoulders
            June 8, 2021

            No transmission has been recorded outside @jerry – transmission data indicates that brief non-contact interactions are safe. Masks are a placebo in most cases. Much transmission is in the home.

            No one is stopping you wearing yours at any point, I want to return to life as we know it as soon as possible and that means being able to see people’s faces.

          2. jerry
            June 8, 2021

            @NS, Wrong, there was a spike in early CV19 infection consistent with and commo0n to those who attended or worked at the 2020 Cheltenham Horse racing festival, and very few locations actually require face masks outside, only when social distancing can not be complied with, and no a 6 sided cube of a grandstand, often only open on one side, is not truly an open space.

            “I want to return to life as we know it as soon as possible”

            Indeed I want to return to the pre 1979 life as we knew it too, better still a pre 1970s life, I doubt we ever will… 😛

            More seriously, yes, I suspect most people want to get back to a more ‘normal’ life, but lets base the time and pace (and perhaps what might not be possible in the near or longer term) on the science, not politics or emotion. Until then we should all keep our germs personal!

            “and that means being able to see people’s faces.”

            How do you ever manage when you have to speak to others on the (traditional) telephone, not being able to see their face, read their body language?…

      2. John Hatfield
        June 7, 2021

        The scientists would extend lockdown into infinity if they could Jerry. We have ben vaccinated. Time to call it in.

        Reply
        1. jerry
          June 7, 2021

          @John Hatfield; “The scientists would extend lockdown into infinity”

          Says who, the people who never wanted any restrictions, those who pleaded the UK should copy the Swedish, USA and Brazilian public health policies (such policies didn’t end well did they, even in Sweden). Anyway the UK has never had a Lockdown, we have merely had some restrictions, and I was replying to a comment about continued mask wearing beyond the 21st June in any case.

          Reply
      3. No Longer Anonymous
        June 7, 2021

        Jerry.

        The Government is taking the piss now.

        I see it as my duty to defy them. After 21st of June I will be prepared to go to prison.

        Reply
        1. jerry
          June 8, 2021

          @NLA; Sorry, your qualifications in Virology are what exactly, or is that just a personal opinion, based on your political beliefs that the individual is more important than the collective needs of society?

          Reply
    5. Everhopeful
      June 7, 2021

      Oh for goodness sake!
      You need to keep commenting. You are needed. Not necessarily to respond to THEM.
      The lefties who come one here probably get paid.
      Trolls.
      Just try to think of crushing, no possible come-back replies!
      Or keep stum.

      Reply
      1. jerry
        June 7, 2021

        @EH; “The lefties who come one here probably get paid.”

        So what if they do, no doubt some ‘righties’ are also being paid to post comments to left-wing social media sites too, it’s just the modern way of getting political policy and comment out to the masses, might your real problem be the left are better at it?… I seem to recall the Tory party running a pretty slick professional (and expensive) ad campaign before and during the 1979 General Election – and many on the left considered that a very underhanded way of doing politics at the time, simply because the Tories had the better ad campaign, a better way of getting their message out!

        Reply
        1. Everhopeful
          June 7, 2021

          Did I touch a nerve?

          Reply
          1. Peter2
            June 7, 2021

            Yes you did Everhopeful.
            Jerry tells us he has no bias but he gets reaĺy wound up if anyone says anything he disagrees with.
            Beware if you dare to respond he will get very cross and call you a contrary troll.

          2. jerry
            June 8, 2021

            @EH; No, but I seem to have touched your nerve! Oh dear, fancy that, our opponents doing what we also do, how unsporting of them – I suspect you also expect the opposition football team to remain sat in the dressing room at kick-off!

    6. ukretired123
      June 7, 2021

      Yes it is sad that healthy public debate is muddied with muddled thinking and some weirdos hell-bent on undermining Sir John’s platform but it is like any sport e.g football or rugby a microcosm, a reflection of true life. Shakespeare had all the characters identified in his plays and today’s long running soap operas are just variations of them by and large with more recent versions thereof. However wokeness, political correctness and LGBT etc are new attempts to rewrite history, plays and it will be interesting to see what they make of the Bible and (other religious texts ed)

      Reply
    7. Jim Whitehead
      June 7, 2021

      I sympathise very much with NLA (who writes good comments) and I already take your advice, Sir John, and bypass the comments of the smug pair.

      Reply
    8. None of the Above
      June 7, 2021

      Dear NLA, I have sympathy with the way you feel but I don’t think that your reaction is a useful one.
      I have learnt (largely) to ignore certain contributors on here but the majority are informative, provoke positive debate and are enjoyable.

      Reply
    9. glen cullen
      June 7, 2021

      I see that SirJ has accepted your boycott and attempted some arbitration. Please take it in good spirit and faith that one-day the conservative party may return. I too hope that your boycott is short-lived

      Reply
    10. Peter
      June 7, 2021

      NLA.,
      ‘time and again Andy and MiC can come here with smug delight and slap us all around because of yet another Tory policy that has been dropped or yet another Leftist policy adopted.’

      Have you considered the possibility of spoof posts?

      Henry Root wrote to many, via Royal Mail, and often included a fiver(Mrs. Thatcher kept her fiver).

      The replies were published in a hilarious book – ‘The Henry Root Letters’. Must be a good forty years ago now.

      Reply
    11. graham1946
      June 7, 2021

      Don’t take them seriously, no-one else does. We do try at times to argue with them but they are so far gone inn their own thoughts nothing ever gets through and as they have the memory of a goldfish for any facts we may present, its really is a waste of time.

      Reply
    12. MiC
      June 7, 2021

      Merely reading a different point of view from your own apparently freaks you out completely.

      Why is this, do you think?

      Reply
  3. Sea_Warrior
    June 7, 2021

    I do not approve of migrants receiving even a penny of state aid. Perhaps now is the time for substantial reform of welfare – limiting it to British citizens. I gather that Sweden has found that most of its recent immigrants are unable to support themselves. MPs are being very generous with other people’s money.

    Reply
    1. Lifelogic
      June 7, 2021

      MPs are indeed being very “generous” with other people’s money.

      A favourite activity of MPs and indeed of lawyers and judges. This as it keeps the litigation flowing and the Judges and Lawyers in well remunerated (but essentially very parasitic on others) employment.

      Reply
      1. Shirley M
        June 7, 2021

        +1 Why do illegal immigrants get legal aid?

        Reply
        1. Lifelogic
          June 7, 2021

          To enrich the lawyers.

          Reply
        2. MiC
          June 7, 2021

          A person is not an illegal immigrant until Due Process has established that they are.

          Helpful?

          Reply
          1. Shirley M
            June 7, 2021

            An illegal immigrant is a person who arrives in this country without valid papers to prove they are legally entering this country.

          2. Lifelogic
            June 7, 2021

            Wrong, see section 24 of the immigration act 1971. Knowingly entering the UK without permission or overstaying is a criminal offence.

          3. SM
            June 7, 2021

            Er, no. If I were a legal immigrant, I wouldn’t be hiding in the back of lorries, or paying 1000s of Euros to cross either the Mediterranean or the Channel in dinghies, or destroying my identity details before crossing into a European country.

          4. Glenn Vaughan
            June 7, 2021

            NO!

          5. Fedupsoutherner
            June 7, 2021

            Try getting into Oz or NZ using the same tactics. The problem with that MIC is that left wing woke lawyers enable them to stay once they have a foot on our shores. Can you or Andy tell us (because up to now you never have) how many you think are acceptable? 5 million, ten? I could go on. Over to you. Andy is so concerned for his children and grandchildren but he doesn’t give a toss if they end up living on an overcrowded island.

          6. J Bush
            June 7, 2021

            No.

            An illegal migrant is someone who has arrived from a safe county and who has not followed the correct procedure. Or are you suggesting EU countries are war zones and unsafe?

            You can’t have it both ways sunshine

          7. MikeP
            June 7, 2021

            I thought Boris had decreed that those arriving (invading) by dinghy, without passport or other proof of citizenship, would be refused right to remain, end of. If they believe they have a right to claim asylum or refugee status, let them use their cash on a Calais-Dover ferry ticket rather than a share in a dodgy dinghy. Then they’re arriving as others do.

          8. Margaret Brandreth-
            June 7, 2021

            A person isn’t guilty until it is proven by due process .Can we ethically align migrants seen to enter the UK unlawfully to this position? There again how long does it take to conclude the process? Are we suggesting that 250K should be spent on a migrant whilst we await an outcome? Who are the lucky guys to house and give hope to these poor people until we declare an illegal entry?

        3. Alan Jutson
          June 7, 2021

          Shirley M

          Indeed why ?
          The average UK citizen has to fund their own legal defence if accused of anything by the State, no costs back even if you are proven innocent.
          Once again the legal system shows it is unfit for purpose.

          If Mp’s are actually outraged about illegals coming here, why do they not do something about it !

          Conclusion, they are not bothered, simples !

          Reply
          1. hefner
            June 7, 2021

            FuS, you think you are clever asking Andy how many immigrants he would accept. Unfortunately he cannot do anything more than you do, which is nothing outside general elections. When (if) one day you could understand that by coming to this website every day you are led by the nose by Sir John, maybe your blood pressure would go down and you might even enjoy the limited pleasures that we are presently able to get.

            I am looking forward to the day when the voting system is changed (it might never happen during my lifetime) and following such a change more numerous and representative political parties are able to have MPs elected. It might even be possible that both Labour and the CUP break down, in which case the restructuration will be interesting to see. I am not convinced at all that the ‘nice’ Sir John would still be within the ‘reasonable’ conservative party. In an AfD-type party possibly?

      2. nota#
        June 7, 2021

        @Lifelogic other than ‘virtual signalling’ was there any purpose

        Reply
        1. Lester
          June 7, 2021

          Nota#

          Was there any purpose to your post, other than virtue signaling?

          Reply
    2. Cheshire Girl
      June 7, 2021

      2

      Reply
      1. Cheshire Girl
        June 7, 2021

        I agree with everything you say, Sir John, so why is the Government not doing anything about it – except wringing their hands. After all, this has been going on for a long time now.

        This is an absolute disgrace to the hard working taxpayer. We are FORCED- Yes, forced to give away our hard earned money. We have no say in the matter.

        I see trouble ahead, if this is allowed to go on.

        Reply
        1. Andy
          June 7, 2021

          Aren’t you retired? How is that hard work?

          Reply
        2. Timaction
          June 7, 2021

          Indeed. I’ve just had a cheeky e-mail from the Government to advise me on MY responsibilities with regard to Capital Gains (theft) Tax. Totally dishonest tax that the grubby Government should have no part in. I’ve already paid tax on our assets prior to purchase and on income. This socialist Government should repeal this oppressive tax, the same as Inheritance (Theft) Tax. Paying these taxes to support illegal aliens.

          Reply
    3. Peter
      June 7, 2021

      Sea_Warrior,

      Agreed.

      The proposal to add the cost of migrants to the foreign aid budget is OK as a short term reminder of all our money that is being spent by government, often in direct conflict with the wishes of voters.

      As regards illegal migrants, I would reclassify them as enemy aliens. The next step would be to repel them by force or imprison them under harsh conditions until they are expelled.

      It will not happen under LibLabCon though.

      Reply
      1. J Bush
        June 7, 2021

        +1
        If liblabcon want this, let them fund it out of their pockets, not take from ours!

        Reply
        1. anon
          June 9, 2021

          Why not scrap foreign aid and instead setup a fund through voluntary payg payroll deductions controlled by the donors and all those who are in favor. They can easily set up 0.7% deduction of total remuneration( all income & capital gains).

          Reply
    4. Narrow Shoulders
      June 7, 2021

      Quite, moving countries is a choice and unless quite wealthy a hardship. Employ our young and disabled before shipping in more low paid labour on benefits.

      As for asylum seekers, no ID no claim, illegal entry no claim. Detention in dormitories until processed with basic rations and then no support once processed.

      Fend for themselves or don’t come.

      Reply
      1. a-tracy
        June 7, 2021

        NS what dormitories? Where? Should Napier Barracks be fixed up for this purpose, the local residents won’t be happy. Middle of nowhere in Cumbria the locals won’t be happy. Ex-holiday camp (well they’re filling up with vacationers again). Empty students lodgings (locals won’t be happy) can’t keep putting them all in Tower Hamlets and other hotspots.

        Reply
        1. Narrow Shoulders
          June 7, 2021

          We will have plenty of out of use offices soon a-tracy, the workforce does not want to return to work (see Apple today and the banks aren’t pushing their backroom staff back).

          Plenty of place to put down a sleeping bag, there are already toilets and showers in office blocks.

          I’d like to just send them all back but it’s not going to happen so let’s make it as quick and as uncomfortable as possible to process these (people ed).

          Reply
          1. a-tracy
            June 7, 2021

            NS, I know I read that about Apple and my husband and I predicted it would happen last April. No childcare costs, can look after their dogs, pop out to the shops, take extended breaks with no boss over your shoulder, put a load in the washing machine, unload the dishwasher more free time with no commuting – this genie is not going to be easy to put back in the box and I agree about empty office buildings too.

            The French are notorious with putting people in office blocks and squats and getting slapped wrists by the UN no stronger action is ever taken and the last time I was in Paris they were living under under-passes in tents and begging from the queued cars.

            Only 22% of asylum seekers were processed in 6 months and then the appeals started. We’re hopeless and our lawyers tie us up in knots. Instead of lying to us the government should come clean, sending everyone up to the North East from the South isn’t going down well either!

    5. jerry
      June 7, 2021

      @S_W; “I do not approve of migrants receiving even a penny of state aid.”

      So you would prefer French style camps, a black-market economy in an illegal labour etc, increased organised and opportunistic crime?

      Withdrawing such allowances is not going to stop them coming, all it will do is turn them all into illegal migrants, and a far harder issue to deal with.

      Reply
      1. Lester
        June 7, 2021

        Jerry

        Exactly what is unsafe about France?

        I’ve always regarded them as reasonably civilised!

        Reply
      2. jon livesey
        June 7, 2021

        You are outlining a blackmail scheme. You are suggesting that migrants should be able to enforce payment of benefits on threats of crime and violence.

        Reply
        1. jerry
          June 8, 2021

          @Jon livesey; No, unlike you (and others), I’m simply living in the real world, as I said in another debate I would have no problem if these migrants were simply expected to find paid above board work, and by doing so pay for their own (or live in work provided) accommodation, pay UK taxes etc. To many on the right simply want to punish these people, having pre-judged them all even before they arrive, read @Narrow Shoulders comment above for example – we treat stray dogs better…

          Reply
    6. ukretired123
      June 7, 2021

      Charity starts at home -Agree!

      Reply
    7. glen cullen
      June 7, 2021

      Indeed migrants come to the UK under work visa, they don’t need any benefit and should be able to support themselves

      Reply
  4. Lifelogic
    June 7, 2021

    Indeed but so many virtue signalling politicians chose to ignored these costs and I suspect your Euros 250k is an under estimate for the UK. A favourite daft saying was “immigrants pay more in taxes than they get in benefits”. So what? We nearly all do this as we also have to pay for the huge costs of government waste, schools, healthcare, defence, social services, police, the green energy lunacy, hs2 lunacy and all the rest.

    Clearly the solution is to deter illegal arrivals (Nigel Farage estimates we are on course for 20,000+ arrivals in ribs to Kent this year) by making it very clear to all that they will simply not be allowed to stay unless they have arrived by applying officially in advance and only those likely to be a net long term benefit to the economy are accepted. Alas Priti Patel is all hot air and zero real action (constrained as she is by the ECHR and the courts who love being “generous” with other peoples money). We should withdraw from the ECHR and sort the laws and the lefty lawyers out. But clearly there is no political will. Boris is far more interested in his and Carrie’s climate alarmist lunacy.

    If someone is here they should however clearly be allowed to work, but they should only be allowed to remain when they have applied and been accepted before arrival. Over 2000 migrants arrived in Lampedusa in one day recently. If the current absurd policies continue Kent might well get to these numbers too soon. Especially now the UK Gov. and Navy provide water taxis and even picking them up from French waters.

    Reply
    1. beresford
      June 7, 2021

      Priti Patel isn’t constrained by the ECHR or the courts, more likely it is Boris Johnson and the rest of our Establishment. The Government has a large majority, and can change the law. The Government chose to remain under the ECHR, which is a convenient fig leaf. Our Establishment are signatories to the UN Global Compact on Migration, which maintains that mass migration (into white majority countries) is ‘necessary’ and ‘desirable’. In parallel to this we see the movement to tear down our monuments, re-name our streets and buildings, and re-interpret everything through the prism of white culpability for slavery.

      Reply
      1. Paul Cuthbertson
        June 7, 2021

        Beresford – Agreed. PP , Boris and the whole of the government are controlled by the Globalist UK Establishment and the United N and the E C/ H R are corrupt organisations. Many N /G Os and S /o r o s involved and complicit with the globalist illegal immigrant plan.

        Reply
    2. a-tracy
      June 7, 2021

      Lifelogic, seriously no one wants to be Britain’s Trump. Mr Popular Boris certainly doesn’t and Carrie doesn’t want to be treated or seen like Melania.

      You wouldn’t do the job. Just look at what happened to Trump and his family (absolutely hounded by the media, words twisted and misconstrued) by holding the line that you’d personally prefer politicians took. People that wanted the action Trump took wouldn’t admit to it in polite company so keep schtum and allow him and his to take all the flak.

      Look at the people who have been cancelled losing jobs and social standing should they speak out at all in the UK. ALL costs relating to all aid to foreigners should be added up, every penny and our true generosity in this World must be revealed. The Tories should be proud of what they do instead of hiding and covering it up. There need to be humanitarian solutions and action taking in the Countries that cause these young males to leave.

      Reply
  5. Ian Wragg
    June 7, 2021

    The migrants are going to be the downfall of the liblabcon.
    The majority of people are thoroughly sick and tired of this fiasco which you actively encourage.
    There is going to be a day of reckoning for this abject betrayal.
    Any party which promises to start mass deportations will have massive support at the polls.
    Beware

    Reply
    1. Lifelogic
      June 7, 2021

      The downfall of the Boris, Carrie, Sunak administration will surely be the huge economic waste and mismanagement, inflation, the open door immigration policy, taxation rates that are way too high, a government far too large and generally totally inept, excessive red tape, mad employment laws, a basket case NHS, endless duff university degrees, rather poor schools in general, the extended & very damaging lock down and above all their expensive, anti-scientific energy and climate alarmist lunacy.

      But then again Labour/SNP would clearly be even worse.

      Reply
      1. J Bush
        June 7, 2021

        Oh, I don’t know. This mob that purportedly claim they are conservatives, appear to want to prove they are even more ‘left’ than the traditional lefties.

        Reply
        1. Lifelogic
          June 7, 2021

          They certainly do. Lefty, climate alarmist, tax, borrow and waste fools.

          Reply
      2. Jim Whitehead
        June 7, 2021

        Alas, LL, you’re so right, and the inadequates you list offer nothing but more of the same mediocrity of thought and action which is filleting the backbone from this once fine country.

        Reply
    2. Dave Andrews
      June 7, 2021

      Deportation is the way the government has to go. All the time there is an open door policy, with migrants taxied across the Channel by Border Force, many more will be encouraged to follow the same route.
      If the migrants are returned immediately to their own country, that will break the people traffickers’ business model.
      Foreign aid is needed because the world’s in a mess. The little we pay makes practically no difference to the failed governments and failing lifestyles people continue to practise.
      Let individuals decide to contribute voluntarily, rather than adding more to the nation’s debt, that will have to be supported by the next generation.

      Reply
      1. Alan Jutson
        June 7, 2021

        Dave, absolutely agree, if anyone wants to try to help people abroad, or fund anything else for that matter, then make a personal contribution (large as you like, your choice), there are plenty of ways of doing such.
        Just do not borrow in my name to do so.

        Reply
        1. glen cullen
          June 7, 2021

          +1

          Reply
      2. Paul Cuthbertson
        June 7, 2021

        Dave Andrews- deportation yes, but look at how many deportations have been thwarted due to left wing liberal judges and social justice warriors.

        Reply
    3. MiC
      June 7, 2021

      What classes of people would you wish to see deported and to where?

      I suspect that you may well mean many who have no citizenship other than British, so to where?

      Reply
      1. SM
        June 7, 2021

        Fortunately, I have this morning been reading an article by a journalist (Ian Urbina) who volunteered to work for a period for the Red Cross on one of the cruise ships commandeered by the Italian Government to act as quarantine quarters for illicit migrants arriving by dinghies from Libya, whose primary export trade these days appears to be in human beings.

        The writer notes that the migrants come from: Egypt (no current wars), Morocco (certain amount of trouble within the country), Tunisia (no current wars), Bangladesh (no conflicts), Ethiopia (not British), Syria (not British), and other West African countries (not British).

        By the way, the holding ships are patrolled 24/7 by the Guardia Finanzia, which polices immigration and financial crimes, to prevent migrants attempting to escape and swim to shore. Apparently, if migrants can’t prove that they are fleeing conflict or persecution, rather than poverty, Italy typically rejects their asylum claims.

        Reply
      2. agricola
        June 7, 2021

        To your first question, all who arrive illegally. Those that could apply at any UK embassy in a safe country and are assylum seekers could be pre approved if we considered them suitable.
        Economic migrants could apply in the same way against known job vacancies and if approved invited in.
        To your second comment, if they are British they have no problem. If they have no citizenship they do. They must have been born somewhere so why no citizenship from where they were born. If this was overlooked at the time, do something about it. Your expectation that we in the UK should sort out everyones problems throughout the World is nonesense. We have enough of our own as you are one of the first to point out.

        Reply
        1. Alan Jutson
          June 7, 2021

          +1

          Reply
        2. Shirley M
          June 7, 2021

          +1

          Reply
        3. MiC
          June 7, 2021

          Simply being born in a country such as the UK no longer necessarily confers citizenship.

          That is why there have been about 5 million applications for residency from European Union citizens, many on behalf of the children whom they are raising here.

          Reply
    4. turboterrier
      June 7, 2021

      Ian Wragg
      Totally correct Ian. Very few of our politicians even talk about the problem.
      We are ignored at their peril.

      Reply
    5. jerry
      June 7, 2021

      @Ian Wragg; ‘The majority of people, who read the BNN, are thoroughly sick and tired of this fiasco which you actively encourage. [..//..] Any party which promises to start mass deportations will have massive support, from the small minority who read the BNN, at the polls.’

      There, correct that for you!… I doubt the majority of UK adults spend more than 30 seconds thinking about migrants in any single day. Most people, I would suggest, are far more concerned about who is going to harvest this years crop for example, why farmers can not fulfil their manual labour requirements without actively seeking migrant labour (who them might stay on at the end of the contracted work, if not here already), despite so many young and fit 18-30 year old people either with no job or NMW Zero hours contract work delivering fast food orders etc…

      Reply
      1. John Hatfield
        June 7, 2021

        Is that the Bible News Network, Jerry?

        Reply
    6. Lester
      June 7, 2021

      Ian Wragg

      Spot- on

      And hopefully very soon, constantly ignoring the wishes of the majority isn’t going to end well, hopefully

      Reply
  6. agricola
    June 7, 2021

    In a sense providing overseas aid should encourage people in the countries involved to make something of their lives where they are. We cannot be the economic answer to the ills of the World. Genuine refugees are a different matter.

    To clarify the cost, and we need to, to prevent it overwhelming the OA budget, I think it would be better and more honest were we to set up a Destitute Foreigners Arrival Fund. Allowing local authorities to claim from it would alleviate their budgets in places of arrival such as Kent. The political downside would be drawing attention to how little we do for the homeless and the conditions we expect many to live in, people who are citizens of the UK.

    We also need to look at how quickly we can get immigrant arrivals into work so that costs can be mitigated. By all accounts our agriculture/horticulture industry needs workers who are unavailable for varying reasons from our own unemployed.

    It is a very complex interwoven subject that requires a lot of detailed thought before charging off in any specific direction. Not least, should economic migrants be allowed any length of stay in the UK without prior specific invitation.

    Reply
    1. Andy
      June 7, 2021

      Asylum seekers are not allowed to work. That is a UK law which the government could – and should – change.

      Nobody wants these poor people to be a burden on the state. But if they are not allowed to work how can they not be a burden?

      Or would you advocate they break the law?

      Reply
      1. jon livesey
        June 7, 2021

        You are admitting that “Asylum seekers” are just economic refugees, and you are saying that we should be required to allow them to act as economic refugees before they are even processed.

        Reply
    2. Mary M.
      June 7, 2021

      ‘In a sense providing overseas aid should encourage people in the countries involved to make something of their lives where they are.’

      So true, Agricola.

      Why do young people abandon their communities and their elderly and make that treacherous journey across land and sea? So much better if in providing overseas aid we give them hope that it is possible to stay and invest themselves and their skills in the infrastructure of their own country.

      We need to deal with the despicable people traffickers who charge families’ life-savings for the journey. In fact, I would go so far as to say that in not dealing with the people traffickers we are complicit in this unavoidable human misery.

      Reply
      1. graham1946
        June 7, 2021

        How can it be that the law enforcement agencies cannot find the traffickers? The illegals do it quite easily apparently by the numbers arriving. It must be that the governments are not bothered and are actively encouraging it for some reason we don’t yet know. Priti Useless Patel says again today we should round up the traffickers but takes no action to do so or put forward any actual plans other than she is ‘talking to the French and the Belgians’. Stop talking and start shipping them back. A fleet of coaches at Dover, straight on to the ferries to Calais instead of our 4 star hotels will do the job. I don’t mind us paying the fares.

        Reply
    3. Lester
      June 7, 2021

      Agricola

      The problem stems from the fact that they’ve been told that they will lead a life of milk and honey and will want for nothing… remove that incentive and the problem will vanish overnight…. I do believe that I’ve just seen an aviating member of the Pig family!

      Reply
      1. graham1946
        June 7, 2021

        This is true. I have spent some time in several African countries (I wonder how many Andy and MiC have) and they believe that London in particular is paved with gold for the taking. They think we are all millionaires, which compared to their compound living must seem so, then we prove they are correct by putting them in 4 star hotels most of us could not afford with all found and spending money. 250 grand per immigrant must be a gross underestimate.

        Reply
    4. Paul Cuthbertson
      June 7, 2021

      Overseas Economic Aid is paid to governments and is either squandered or siphoned off into private accounts. It never assists those that are truly in need. You want aid then we control and audit the expenditure.

      Reply
  7. Shirley M
    June 7, 2021

    We should make a big distinction between legal immigration and illegal immigration. The boat people are criminals, having entered our country illegally. They should be treated as the criminals they are, and deported at the first opportunity, regardless of refugee status. Nobody likes queue jumpers who force their way to the front, and if they are genuine refugees then they can apply through the proper channels, instead of using the English channel.

    How do other countries deal with illegal immigration? I am fairly sure they don’t provide then with a house and all the trimmings. It is that which is the magnet, not safety, as France is not at war. Likewise with persecution over being gay, or whatever is the latest plea. Should we ‘rescue’ all the gays (and others not tolerated by other countries) and house them here?

    I apologise if this appears harsh, but we already have a housing shortage and I am strongly against putting illegals ahead of those already here, and I don’t want the UK to be responsible for taking the ‘undesirables’ of all other less tolerant countries.

    Reply
    1. turboterrier
      June 7, 2021

      Shirley M
      Well said Shirley and please never ever apologise for something you have no control over. Leave that to all the politicians and civilians servants involved in the process. They dont see it as a problem , they see it as a work load and job security.

      Reply
    2. Fedupsoutherner
      June 7, 2021

      Quite right Shirley. If you get here by criminal means – and being a trafficer is a criminal offence – then you should be deported as a criminal.

      Reply
    3. MiC
      June 7, 2021

      You should read up on the law as to asylum seeking.

      People are not criminals just because you and an assortment of similar types groundlessly label them as such.

      It depends on the facts, and also on intention, and until these are established a person is innocent until proven guilty.

      Or would you like to abandon that centuries-old English legal rule and convention?

      Yes, some opportunists will try to take advantage fraudulently, but that is true of many laws and processes in all spheres.

      Reply
      1. Lester
        June 7, 2021

        MiC

        Trust you to take the opposite view, perhaps I will volunteer to take some of these needy folk into Martin Towers in Cardiff

        No!

        You astound me, I thought that the spirit of Gary Lineker was alive and well In Cardiff!

        Reply
        1. Lester
          June 7, 2021

          You will volunteer

          Bl**dy iPad

          Reply
        2. MiC
          June 7, 2021

          I haven’t expressed a view, Lester, just stated facts as to process.

          My view is that claimants should be heard swiftly, and non-genuine ones removed promptly, as e.g. Germany does.

          Reply
      2. graham1946
        June 7, 2021

        The Barrack Room Lawyer strikes again, even though I suggested he look up the law a couple of days ago, but obviously declines to do so. He does come out with some bilge.

        Reply
    4. J Bush
      June 7, 2021

      +1

      This habit of housing migrants before the native population, who have been on the waiting list for years is so unfair and annoys me immensely.

      Reply
    5. Andy
      June 7, 2021

      We do make a big distinction between legal immigrants and illegal ones. Legal immigrants are here legally and illegal ones are not. Surely this is not hard to understand?

      As for the boat people. The party you vote for has removed virtually all of the ‘proper channels’ as you them. So there is no way for them to just come here on a plane or a ferry like you would.

      It is a long established principle in international law that asylum seekers can arrive how they like. Indeed the whole point of seeking asylum is that you are unlikely to be able to use regular routes.

      These people are not breaking the law by coming here by dinghy – and they are not obligated to claim asylum in ‘the first safe country’ as Faragists have fraudulently claimed for years.

      The vast majority stay in Europe and never even try to come here. Those who are granted asylum in an EU country were never eligible for free movement as that is only for EU citizens. Asylum seekers do not get benefits and are not legally allowed to work whilst their claims are considered. They live mostly off charity handouts. The cost to you is close to zero.

      Basically everything you thought you knew about this subject is wrong.

      Reply
      1. a-tracy
        June 7, 2021

        Andy, “Jerome Phelps, director of pressure group Detention Action. Many asylum seekers will have fled their countries without a valid travel document. Others may have destroyed their passport before entering the UK and it can be difficult to prove their nationality. Phelps argues that some people in this situation are “effectively unreturnable”.”

        What do you call people who purposefully destroy their passport making it difficult to prove their nationality or intention of being in the UK? Would you just move them in your street? If yes, give us the first four digits of your postcode and we’ll persuade John to facilitate it.

        Reply
      2. graham1946
        June 7, 2021

        More of the usual old uninformed codswallop made up by fact free Andy. Can you give us chapter and verse of your interpretation of the law please?

        Reply
  8. Alan Holmes
    June 7, 2021

    Another justification for importing the third world and all it’s problems? Welcome to the brave new UK where conservatives have so much in common with communists and people are mortally terrified of a flu bug.

    Reply
    1. MiC
      June 7, 2021

      Agreeing with practical measures and complying with them in order to stop a virus which has killed scores of thousands here is not the same as being “mortally terrified”, any more than looking before crossing a road means that you are “mortally terrified” of traffic.

      I’m sorry, but your comment, I think, shows a severe lack of balance and perspective.

      Reply
    2. Timaction
      June 7, 2021

      They’re Tory’s NOT conservative at all! Big difference!

      Reply
    3. jerry
      June 7, 2021

      @Alan Holmes; Non so blind as those who choose not to see…

      “conservatives have so much in common with communists”

      Someone needs to get out of their bunker mentality and go ask some older German citizens what life was like in the GDR.

      “people are mortally terrified of a flu bug.”

      Yes, in the same way as people were of the Flu of 1919, the ‘Flu’ of 2021 being about as treatable as that 1919 flue was back in 1919 – in 2020 you would have had more luck being treated successfully for Bubonic plague or Ebola…

      Reply
  9. Aden
    June 7, 2021

    A min wage migrant pays £900 a year in tax.
    They get £14,500 a year in state services, future costs like pensions ignored.
    Are you going to use the aid budget to pay the difference?

    I suspect not. MPs demand that the plebs pay the difference so they get cheap servants and make a profit.

    Reply
    1. Lifelogic
      June 7, 2021

      Indeed, in fact nearly 50% of all households pay less in tax than they get back in benefits and immediate services given to them such as medical care, subsidised housing, state pensions, schooling and further education for their children etc.

      Reply
      1. a-tracy
        June 7, 2021

        Lifelogic, where did you get that 50% figure from, please?

        Reply
        1. Lifelogic
          June 7, 2021

          Cannot actually remember sorry, I read it in some stats a couple of years back I think it was 48% from memory. Makes sense as average wage is about £29k so tax and NI on that is only about £7k plus a bit of VAT and other taxes. Just one child at school and child benefit uses that up. The majority of people are on rather less than this too or completely on benefits.

          Reply
          1. a-tracy
            June 8, 2021

            Lifelogic, the average pay of £29k for a paye worker = £8299.45 in tax and ni.
            They also now have to pay NEST (£1820) for no defined benefit, we don’t even know if we can trust the organisations set up to invest this money.

            A community educates a child, not just the parents. It is to the collective benefit to have a well-educated community coming up behind you. My childless Aunt and Uncle recognised that without complaint, they require younger people to provide their healthcare, policing, shopping, all essential services and to add to the GDP to help to pay to build the roads they used, the streetlamps etc. The average cost of educating a child in the UK = £6000 pa secondary and £5200 primary source: ifs.

        2. hefner
          June 8, 2021

          Ons.gov.uk ‘Effects of taxes and benefits on UK household income: financial year ending 2020’.
          But read the whole report carefully and see whether LL actually understood what he read (that’s assuming he read the full thing and not simply the subtitles).

          Reply
    2. jerry
      June 7, 2021

      @Aden; Yours is absurdity on stilts!

      A min wage British citizen also pays £900 a year in tax.
      They can also get £14,500 (and more) a year in state services, with future costs like pensions not ignored but credited.

      Reply
    3. a-tracy
      June 7, 2021

      Aden,
      A PAYE NLW worker over 23 years of age would contribute the following for a 37.5 hour working week:
      Tax £8.91 x 37.5 x 52 = £17374.24 less their personal allowance £12,570 = £960.84
      National Insurance towards their healthcare and state pension:
      £17374.24 less their personal allowance £9568 = £7806.24 x 25.8% (Employer and Employee) national insurance = £2014.00.
      Now they would also pay NEST into a workplace pension with no defined benefit:
      £17374.24 less their personal allowance £6240 = £11134.24 x 8% (employer and employee contribution) = £890.73.

      So direct taxation they would contribute £2974.84 + £890.73 into a pension pa [£3865.57].
      Then there are the indirect taxes – council tax, vat, car tax, tax on fuel, road/bridge tolls.

      Reply
  10. Fedupsoutherner
    June 7, 2021

    Don’t you mean Helping migrants GET TO the UK is a form oc overseas aid? That is what border farce is doing. Then, according to the figures, they not only get here but know they can stay here with the British taxpayer footing the bill. I don’t see charities abd the rest of the world shouting when Spain and Australia send their invaders back but as usual good old Blighty has to do ‘the right thing’. We have 200,000 homeless and taking in nearly a 1000 a week isn’t filling the homeless with confidence. Can your government start controlling immigration like they promised us? Can someone tell us where thus will all end. In 3 years our population rises by a million just counting illegals. It’s not good enough.

    Reply
    1. Lifelogic
      June 7, 2021

      Indeed.

      Reply
    2. turboterrier
      June 7, 2021

      F U S
      Well thought out as usual

      Reply
    3. jerry
      June 7, 2021

      @FUS; Spain only sends their migrants back (or on to another country) when they no longer have any economic use for them. If you have not seen the international objections to how Australia have been dealing with migrants (especially illegal migrants) you have not been reading much else beside the BNN or UKIP handouts for as good few years!

      Reply
      1. Fedupsoutherner
        June 7, 2021

        I’m not interested in why Spain send them back. They do it. For your information I have NEVER read anything written by the BNN and in fact I don’t even know what the initials stand for. I can only presume its British National something. Ukip is an old worn out party but from what I have read in the past, more Conservative than our government now. I am well aware of the International objections to Australias immigration policy. It would seem some leaders run their countries the way they seem fit. Their immigration policies are backed by their citizens and they are the ones paying the bills. Stop assuming people read certain things, not that it’s any of your business in the first place.

        Reply
    4. glen cullen
      June 7, 2021

      Correct – I’ll match your 200,000 homeless and rise you 1,740,000 unemployed…..I think we need to start looking after ourselves first

      Reply
  11. Sakara Gold
    June 7, 2021

    We are definately full up now. Before the Chinese plague virus we had to wait 6 (!!) weeks to get a GP appointment. There are too many immigrant ghettoes here already. Had a walk around Whitechapel recently? It feels like enemy territory. Given the jihadi threat in the UK, Enoch Powell wasn’t far wrong.

    Illegal economic migrants shipped over here daily by people smugglers with the conivance of the French should be immediately sent back there. Those wishing to claim political asylum should be detained and processed in their countries of origin.

    The Danes have the right idea – last week, a new immigration law sailed through the Danish Parliament by a vote of 76 to 24. This allows their authorites to deport immigrants who are unable to integrate successfully into Danish culture and applicants will be processed in their countries of origin.

    Reply
    1. Shirley M
      June 7, 2021

      I can never understand why illegal immigrants are allowed the freedom to disappear within the UK. Can’t we tag them, or keep them in holding somewhere? The very best solution would be to remove the incentives that encourage them to take a dangerous journey from safe France to the UK and not allow them the opportunity to stay in the UK illegally. They are NOT refugees. They are illegal economic migrants.

      Reply
    2. jerry
      June 7, 2021

      @SG; If there was just 100 motor cars in the UK, but no metalled roads and only one petrol station, the UK would have ‘to many’ cars…

      The problem is not the population numbers but the infrastructure, we have to few schools, to few hospitals, to little housing, often of the wrong type and with inappropriate occupation etc. How ever many scapegoats are found those facts will never change.

      Reply
      1. graham1946
        June 7, 2021

        The problem certainly is one of numbers. Our population in the last 20 years has risen by about 10 million (that we know about, never mind illegals) . We could never cope with that, no matter what you say. Traditionally it would increase about 50,000 per year, not half a million. It is not scapegoats but common sense. Every time we build a new large estate, there is always the promise of new health centres, but never the doctors to staff them. How do you propose we get the extra teachers, nurses (100,000 short at the moment) trained and working? How do you think we can build houses for 10 million newcomers – we have a shortage of skills and currently materials and during this time we’ve had two of the biggest hits to the economy we’ve ever known. Glib comments like yours do not solve one problem.

        Reply
        1. jerry
          June 8, 2021

          @Graham1946; ‘Our problems’ started 50+ years ago (hence why some found scapegoats in the 1950s era of migrant too), when certain market forces were allowed to become dominant, often deciding how many homes, and what infrastructure to service those homes, were built. There will never be enough, never mind excess, housing all the time a shortage means higher prices can asked for what is available. There will never be the staff to run new (state sector) schools and hospitals etc unless the govt pro-actively forward budgets for them, and the electorate again understands that such tax-n-spend can actually be a benefit. Society also needs to take the home out of the pension pot arrangements, it might be nice for the 65 year old couple to have a half million or more retirement nest-egg in their 3 bed family property but it does no favours for their grand-children’s generation.

          OT rant; Far to many infrastructure decisions in the UK are being made on short term price/profit, rather than best practice or forward planning needs, for example I drove past the site of a new business park the other day, one whose location could see further expansion, the contractors for the electricity supply company have the road and pavements up a mile from the site (perhaps much further, they had not stopped digging…) laying in a new HT power cable, when a high voltage over-head power line crosses the site, obviously cheaper to lay a cable back to an existing substation, causing cost and frustration to the local community and businesses in the process, than provide a suitable new substation one on site!

          Reply
    3. MWB
      June 7, 2021

      The Danes have a sensible population who elect sensible politicians. Unfortunately, we do not.

      Reply
      1. MiC
        June 7, 2021

        Insulting the voters, eh?

        What a hoot.

        Reply
    4. forthurst
      June 7, 2021

      According to wikipedia which is accurate in some matters, inaccurate and incomplete in others and sometimes deliberately misleading:

      “The Kingdom of Denmark (including the Faroe Islands and Greenland) elects a unicameral parliament, the Folketing, on a national level. Of the 179 members of parliament, the Faroe Islands and Greenland elect two members each, 135 are elected from ten multi-member constituencies on a party list PR system using the d’Hondt method and the remaining 40 seats are allocated to ensure proportionality at a national level. To get a share of supplementary seats a party needs to get at least 2% of the total number of votes.”

      Sometime modernity represents progress.

      Reply
    5. hefner
      June 7, 2021

      SG, you stroke gold, the funniest comment of the day ‘Those wishing to claim political asylum should be … processed in their countries of origin’. I can picture Syrians politely asking Bashar al-Assad or Iranians asking Ali Khamenei about such political asylum in the UK.
      I hope this was a moment of inattention.

      Reply
  12. paul
    June 7, 2021

    The reason why this con party is so in your face is because of the bounderies changes coming to every area which makes them so confident of winning the next election they feel they can get away with anything and are.

    Reply
    1. Everhopeful
      June 7, 2021

      +1

      Reply
    2. SM
      June 7, 2021

      Please don’t encourage hysteria: there are boundary changes at both Council and Parliamentary Constituency levels every few years, under every Government, because of the changes in population density that occur across the country.

      There is a recommended ideal amount of voters per constituency, but it is not always possible to totally adhere to that where, for instance, largely rural areas would make it impossible for an MP to adequately cover ‘his’ area even with modern communication methods.

      Reply
    3. Fedupsoutherner
      June 7, 2021

      @Paul, yes, and think nothing of fleecing the taxpayer and trashing the country while they are at it.

      Reply
  13. Nig l
    June 7, 2021

    Yes and when will Pritti Patel move from BS to actually achieving anything? So now add the Home Office to DEFRA and International Aid as not fit for purpose. Picture migrants arriving gratis against U.K. citizens having to shell out hundreds of pounds for early flights or unnecessary tests having been foolish enough to believe more ‘lies’ from Boris/Hancock/Shapps.

    The Guardian got it spot on. ‘The governments decision (re Portugal) is grimly familiar. The mixed messaging, lack of clarity, the dithering followed by sudden u turns and the almost casual abandonment of individuals to make the best of things are insultingly familiar. Mr Johnson as ever wants things both ways’

    Facts as opposed to Hancock’s dissembling. The infection rate over the last two weeks in the Algarve is a handful per one hundred thousand.

    We are now led to believe that the model that he is using is totally flawed over reacting to modest changes of input. No surprise there. We read that the NHS consider his comments about threats to it, without justification and as of late last week, the two Health Trusts covering my area had zero Covid patients which would confirm that view.

    Dom Cummings was correct, we deserve better and that includes supine MPs.

    Reply
    1. Everhopeful
      June 7, 2021

      I believe the govt. is following two agendas (with regard to travel..there are others!).
      One is based on The Migrant Pact signed by May and the other is to stop all international travel ( Agenda 21/30).
      Except of course for the rich who are jetting about as I type.
      Some rent out their private ( jets?) and some just use their own.
      More utter,utter, idiot fools who actually believed the glaring lies re holidays.

      Reply
  14. Everhopeful
    June 7, 2021

    How about a sort of mentoring scheme where members of the government take several newly arriveds under their wing?
    It would save finding accommodation because each MP could obviously take the refugee into his/her household and pay all expenses. A weekly wage could be decided upon, to be paid by the govt. member ( and no tax breaks).
    This need only apply to those MPs who support open/derelict borders and the ones who oppose them can bl**dy well start doing something about it.
    Racism cuts both ways!

    Reply
  15. David Brown
    June 7, 2021

    There are topics I agree with and topics I disagree with
    I believe the Gov should provide safe passage for migrants and not criminalise them.
    As for accommodation build more apartments
    In respect to state finance policy believe the top rate of tax should be raised
    There will be extra income from multi National companies through agreed
    harmonisation of tax by G7
    I’m a strong supporter of multiculturalism and we need more of this
    Why do I feel the need to be opposing most views here?
    Well it means the blog is not one dimensional and I do try not to be rude (probably not always successful)

    Reply
    1. Iain Moore
      June 7, 2021

      You want to give safe passage to refugees. The UN estimates there are 80 million people classed as refugees. As every single one of them will take you up on your offer , may I ask where are you going to put them?

      Reply
      1. John C.
        June 7, 2021

        Iain. He explained that. Build more apartments. Simple people are not called “simple” for nothing.

        Reply
    2. Cheshire Girl
      June 7, 2021

      ‘We need more multiculturalism’. ?

      I really do despair! Please don’t include me in the ‘We’..

      Reply
      1. Sharon
        June 7, 2021

        Cheshire Girl

        I agree! You can’t have multi-cultures in one country. Multi racial, yes, but some cultures in this country are sooo… different as to have ended up as parallel cultures where they do not allow in strangers of that culture – ie. the rest of the country. How is that healthy?

        Reply
    3. Fedupsoutherner
      June 7, 2021

      If you think building more apartments is the answer then why can’t we do that for our homeless first. There are plenty of people living in sub standard accomodation now and I don’t see any woke, money grabbing judge standing up for them. Can we please think of our own first before bending over backwards for the rest of the world.

      Reply
    4. MiC
      June 7, 2021

      I don’t think that “multiculturalism” has worked at all, that is to say, welcoming all people and not expecting them to integrate but to live as separately as they like, establishing sub-cultures. You might notice that the word has been largely abandoned now, especially on the Mainland.

      I’m all for people who come to Europe because they like the philosophical basis on which its countries are established, and who wish to participate in and to contribute to them on that, however.

      That said, the English, e.g. in Spain, are some of the worst for non-integration.

      Reply
    5. nota#
      June 7, 2021

      @David Brown

      I can understand your humanity here, but I would have to say that every time one of these yes illegals force their way into the UK, a trafficker profits and a genuine asylum seeker gets robbed of a place. Not forgetting these people are escaping from what we are told is a safe haven – the EU.

      You are wrong, there will be no extra income from the tax harmonisation to come out of the G7. Corporation tax is paid from profits. It is practise for overseas companies wanting to operate in the UK to charge their UK outlets, management, services and material supplies fees and cost through a low tax regium. That will not change. The object is these external costs will ensure the UK operation will permanently run at a loss – therefore no profit – no profit equals no tax to pay.

      These G7 proposals are also discriminately, even if there were to be a profit a UK company would be expected to pay 25% more than the offshore company. More disturbingly UK tax policy being defined by people that are not democratically responsible to the UK electorate – that’s the way to purgatory.

      Reply
      1. nota#
        June 7, 2021

        In other words it is all just ‘virtual signalling’

        Reply
      2. David Brown
        June 7, 2021

        Interesting points I guess time will tell if you are correct
        May be I’m being too simplistic in my assumptions about the G7 agreement?

        Reply
    6. Lifelogic
      June 7, 2021

      One big problem with your plan is that from the current, hugely over taxed UK position higher tax rates will result less tax take not more.

      I too believe in safe passage for those we agree to accept in advance. The dangerous passage routes will stop as soon as it is made clear they will never be allowed to stay that way.

      Reply
    7. a-tracy
      June 7, 2021

      How many people per year David do you want the government to accommodate and build homes for?

      Reply
  16. Everhopeful
    June 7, 2021

    One question.
    How, in a pandemic which the govt. blames for our ruination, can it be right to allow thousands of migrants into the country?
    They will carry it…they will catch it…they will go to the NHS…they may spread it further and what live is there for them, pray, in a plague ravaged country? It is racist to allow them to expose themselves to such danger ( not forgetting dinghies and the sea).
    Oh what a tangled web has been woven.
    The deceptions would not stand a chance if the education system hadn’t been destroyed.

    Reply
  17. JayGee
    June 7, 2021

    We are required to distinguish between legal and illegal migrants. Is there a distinction between assistance provided to those we choose to help once they have arrived here, and foreign aid provided to those living in conditions most of us would find intolerable? We are a rich country. We cannot afford to be mean.

    Reply
  18. Bryan Harris
    June 7, 2021

    The 2 UN treaties that required immigrants to be taken in, with some priority, signed by May, have never been costed, and to my knowledge were never fully debated in Parliament?
    Surely these treaties tied the hands of subsequent governments which was never meant to happen?

    Given the number of people coming to the UK as refugees or migrants to live and work, there is a direct cash cost on the state to provide many more social homes, and additional school places and healthcare capacity.

    Time we knew what our generosity does cost us on an annual basis, given that the flow of immigrants is not going to stop any time soon.

    …and yes, most certainly, that cost should come out of the foreign aid budget.

    Reply
  19. David Magauran
    June 7, 2021

    Secure camps should be constructed on an island for these illegal immigrants. At the sea border between the UK and France a large ship (even a spare cruise liner with all facilities) should be waiting to take them there for processing. They should never be allowed to set foot in England. Perhaps the sight of a large ship waiting for them from France may deter them from attempting to cross.

    Reply
    1. a-tracy
      June 7, 2021

      David Maguaran, The average cruise ship can take 3000 guests, 5412 the biggest ship.

      The issue is so large now: “There were 35,099 asylum applications (main applicants only) in the UK in the year ending March 2020, 11% more than the previous year, but lower than the recent peak in year ending June 2016 (36,546).21 May 2020” These are the numbers that apply there are many that just slink into the black economy.
      So that is 12 cruise ships parked up.

      Reply
  20. Robert McDonald
    June 7, 2021

    I listened to another wise commentator on TV pronouncing how much more Germany contributed in the form of foreign aid. Failing of course to mention that around a quarter to a third of their annual contribution was used domestically to deal with immigrant’s and migrants. How much do we use ? Bet you all our contributions goes abroad, some to space explorer nations and some to more affluent nations than us.

    Reply
  21. hefner
    June 7, 2021

    ‘Our security is not just provided by soldiers and tanks and fighter jets, it is also provided by training the police in Afghanistan, by building up governance structures in the Middle East and by getting girls to school in the Horn of Africa. Those things are all part of what makes us safer’ Andrew Mitchell, January 2012, a minister for International Development who from his life experiences knows what he is talking about. Not like the dog whistler leading this blog.

    Reply
  22. nota#
    June 7, 2021

    From todays Telegraph – Bring in Army to solve migrant crisis, former Border Force boss says

    What Army, oh that’s right the Defence Minister and his Army generals say we no longer need men on the ground all future requirements will be digital, electronic and backed up with web nerds. A man on the ground is no longer needed, so the UK proposes paring the whole of its Army back to less than the USA has in Special Forces.

    If the Border Force isn’t up to the task then disbanded it, we have better things to do with taxpayer money.

    Reply
  23. DOM
    June 7, 2021

    Does this website endorse the odious Blair’s demand that identity cards be rolled out that will allow State monitoring of our lives?

    One gets the impression that this laughably titled Tory PM and his party slyly cooperate at a distance and maintain an understanding with Labour and all of their politicians both past and present in the State’s authoritarian agenda

    Why are we being PUNISHED? Millions backed your party at the last GE and this is how you repay them? What a despicable and deceitful way to treat the voter and the taxpayer. Silence from Tory backbenchers is noted and suggests agreement and compliance with this appalling agenda

    Reply I oppose Compulsory state ID cards

    Reply
    1. Everhopeful
      June 7, 2021

      Yes..I feel punished and dispossessed.
      And somewhat annoyed (!!!) to put it mildly.

      Reply
    2. The Prangwizard
      June 7, 2021

      Sir John has become a Tory ‘wet’. All his belief assertions are qualified somehow. He is terrified of declaring firm principles which he would be expected to then have to fight for.

      Reply In response to pieces defending cuts to overseas aid and wanting stronger border enforcement!

      Reply
  24. Everhopeful
    June 7, 2021

    Johnson and Sunak want to reduced OS Aid by some £4 billion.
    Appease any true tories plus the electorate in hard times.
    Cameron enshrined 0.7% in law ( the target set by the UN) to burnish his international halo.
    So..a law made to impress the UN.
    And look now.
    They aren’t our government. They answer to another master.

    Reply
    1. a-tracy
      June 7, 2021

      Asylum seeker numbers went up 11% last year, that is a massive cost on our aid to foreigners, we can’t do it all. It makes me when Andy and MiC keep affirming we are a small, tiny, insignificant player now until they want our money.

      So for goodness sakes, lets have all the figures for the support the UK gives to all foreigners and just record how generous we actually are.

      Reply
      1. Everhopeful
        June 7, 2021

        A+1

        Reply
  25. turboterrier
    June 7, 2021

    Before David Davies MP goes on about lives lost to the possible cuts in foreign aid as reported on Goggle News today maybe he should be asking about the number of lives at risk with in the UK who will benefit from the monies provided by us the tax payers that can be redirected over here.

    Reply
  26. glen cullen
    June 7, 2021

    I expect to be removed from any country if I don’t have the appropriate visa

    99% of countries will return me to point of embarkation the same day without the involvement of lawyers, appeals or courts…..why doesn’t the UK follow the model used by the rest of the world

    Reply
    1. MiC
      June 7, 2021

      Because the UK is not a country from which it is possible to claim refugee or asylum status.

      Reply
  27. agricola
    June 7, 2021

    Here is a none PC thought for those that think , illegals, once established as such should remain by default.
    In 1944 we landed about 160,000 on five beaches. Today there are hundreds of undefended beaches on the french coast. To land a few hundred by night would be a good infiltration exercise. Appart from giving Macon appoplexy it would serve to remind him of how he got his country back. We would only be returning(people ed) for which france has xxxxxxx prime responsibility.

    Reply
  28. Andy
    June 7, 2021

    One of the funniest parts of Brexit is that it is now harder to deport asylum seekers.

    That’s exactly what the quittlings voted for.

    Still, one day it’ll make a great sitcom.

    Reply
  29. Kenneth
    June 7, 2021

    The social cost – the unhappiness and mental anguish it causes to both existing residents and newcomers is terrible.

    The propaganda we had have to endure over the last few years telling us that high levels of migration are good and that it is “inevitable” have prevented politicians from urgently stopping this damaging practice.

    It is not natural nor good to anyone’s well being for people from one culture to parachute into a completely different culture they know nothing of. It is a crazy idea.

    Reply
  30. Mactheknife
    June 7, 2021

    This government is long on rhetoric and short on action…..except of course anything to do with the ‘climate emergency’.
    Of course any costs incurred by housing and supporting immigrants (illegal or not) should be included in the overall aid budget. The answer to the flotillas in the channel is of course to pick them up, in UK waters only, and then drop them back at Calais. As we are out of Europe we have the right to protect our boarders as we see fit and to return illegals from where they have come.
    Also the number of deportations is pitiful. We have thousands of illegals who just seem free to roam and disappear. The courts and tribunals seem biased towards immigrants and I fear the HRA is at the root of all this. Until this is taken out of law, then it seems we are pretty helpless and our pockets will continue to be plundered.

    Reply
  31. Original Richard
    June 7, 2021

    The UK’s population and size is tiny compared to Africa, the ME, Asia and elsewhere.

    Continued high levels of immigration (legal or illegal/unvetted) will inevitably destroy our environment and economy.

    Furthermore, since immigrants bring many different cultures our island will also lose any form of social cohesion and will consequently eventually suffer the serious consequences we currently witness elsewhere in the world.

    Reply
  32. a-tracy
    June 7, 2021

    I remember reading that Theresa May signed the UK up to a UN pact to take a large number of these travellers (some legitimate, some economic) until their status is clarified I believe they need a new name because passing through France and not seeking asylum there or in Spain or Italy isn’t asylum-seeking is it, it is economic migration. Boris has a majority but does he have the will to put through a law to change any of this I doubt it? We are obligated to take a fair share – it can’t all fall on Malta or Italy, Spain or France the first Countries they land in. At least we would know which Conservative MPs believe the current situation (of a frightening number of young lone males often looking for trouble setting fires, fighting, where have all these machetes come from?) is fine as it is.

    reply Most migrants are not looking for the trouble you describe

    Reply
  33. a-tracy
    June 7, 2021

    As well as taking in the ‘unknown travellers’ who I’d guess had money at some point to pay for this travel. The UK also supports lots of asylum centres abroad for example in Jordan, In July 2019 the UK reaffirmed its commitment to supporting Syrian refugees in Jordan with a £55 million donation to UN humanitarian agencies over three years.

    The funding will support UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency, the World Food Programme (WFP) and UNICEF and will be primarily used for cash-based assistance to Syrian refugees as well as broader services for refugees and the host community.
    28 Apr 2016 – TURKEY and a string of Balkan states will be given a £1.8BILLION by Britain.

    The British Red Cross supports vulnerable refugees and asylum seekers.

    Save the Children – The UK has provided more than £1 billion in humanitarian aid to the Syria crisis, and most recently pledged £84 million to help the Government of Jordan ensure Syrian children are attending school.

    17 Jan 2020 – The new £320 million UK aid will run over the next five years, supporting a further 22 million people and 3.9 million small businesses across 45 countries in Africa, including giving them access to mobile banking for remote communities.

    20 Jun 2019 – The UK’s £14 billion foreign aid budget… (JUST WHAT IS IN THIS BUDGET AND WHY AREN’T THE ‘FULL’ COSTS OF ASYLUM IN IT?)

    I could go on but I didn’t want to burden our host with too much information.

    To listen to some people and the likes of Andrew Mitchell you’d think the UK didn’t do sufficient at all and this downplaying the true levels of aid the Conservatives have been spending and the British Charities on the public’s behalf is downright dishonest and frankly annoying. I would a total cost analysis.

    Reply
    1. glen cullen
      June 7, 2021

      Agree – Andrew Mitchell MP only has one string to his bow, remember he was instrumental in the 0.7GDP foreign aid target…so its an affront to he that it should be reduced due to popular demand….remember we’re all plebs to him

      Reply
  34. turboterrier
    June 7, 2021

    OT
    In light of the BBC promoting electric scooters and the pitfalls of using them should not questions about liability insurance been considered by the politicians. Some of the footage showed collisions with cars and a partially sighted woman with a guide dog being knocked over. What if she had sustained a head injury and bled out? Whose liable and who pays? Another instance of this seems like a good idea but not thought through.

    Reply
  35. nota#
    June 7, 2021

    “overseas aid” or in other words taxed deducted from UK Citizens to fund, 3 World Nuclear Powers with the ability to blow other nations off the Planet. 2 of the recipients of UK taxpayer aid money have ‘space programs’ so very much advanced than the UK’s it is embarrassing for a donor Nation.

    Redistributing UK taxpayer money abroad may be applauded by some until they recognise the despot regimes the taxpayer is supporting. We fund their citizens so they can concentrate on power and ego building.

    Again like all thing to do with taxpayer money a Minister should be responsible, accountable and have their head on the block with instant dismissal when they get it wrong. That’s the point of a Democracy and a Parliament. It wont be their department that is wrong, it is there Minister that appoints them on way or another. It is Parliament as our Board Directors that are their to ensure this accountability. It wont need another expensive taxpayer enquiry, it just needs some accepting it is their responsibility.

    Reply
  36. THUTCH
    June 7, 2021

    Include vaccine donations to CoVax as part of the OA budget calculation too.

    Reply
  37. Bill B.
    June 7, 2021

    Last four topics our good host has proposed on this blog: EU, EU, overseas aid, migrants.

    Nothing on the continuation of ‘Covid’ restrictions. That might because he knows he can’t do anything there, against brute force power. Fair enough.

    But then I would hope his voice would at least sometimes be listened to on the issues he does propose. I’m trying to think of the last time we saw on this blog the response from a minister that Sir John put some challenging questions to.

    Reply I have chosen very topical issues this week end as you can see from Parliament today

    Reply
  38. mancunius
    June 7, 2021

    Scene: The Bank Manager’s office. The Manager sits at his desk. Enter a customer, name of Johnson.
    Manager: Ah Mr Johnsom, pray be seated. I’ve summo- I mean, I’ve invited you this afternoon as I have noticed a disturbing pattern in your account. You appear to be running an ever increasing overdraft.
    Johnson: Well yes, it is absolutely essential, you see business hasn’t been good recently, and I need to borrow more to pay my suppliers and… well, foreign dependents.
    Manager (in a rising interrogative inflection, rather along the lines of Lady Bracknell): Dependents???!! But this is a business account, Mr Johnson!!
    Johnson: Quite so, quite so, rem acu tetigisti, but there are a number of foreigners to whom I have promised to give annual allowances. A promise is a promise, doncherknow.
    Manager: Foreigners? You mean, foreigners residing abroad?
    Johnson: Well, yes, basically, although some do make their way here to get at the allowances a bit more directly, so to speak.
    Manager: Relations of yours, perhaps?
    Johnson: Oh no, they make it very clear they want nothing to do with us in the ordinary way, they just want our money.
    Manager: Your money? But you are making almost nothing at present. How can you ‘give’ them anything?? You have only debts.
    Johnson: Well, yes, that’s why I need to borrow more from you, from the bank, to give these chappies a certain percentage of the business income that, erm, you’re absolutely correct, I don’t actually have at the moment. They are all very deserving cases, a (foreign ed) prince wrote to me only this morning explaining his difficulties, if only he has a few million tomorrow he can be a rich man by the end of the week and pay it all back. I gave him our bank details, naturally. I mean, some of the chaps who work in the back room are cutting up about the idea of giving them a bit less, they say we can always go out and pick some pockets for the a bit of ready. That lady who used to run the business, she’s being particularly stroppy about it. It’s mainly the ones who wanted to hand over our business to those continental buyers two years ago. Funny, that.
    Manager: And just how – realistically – do you expect to repay the bank? I see your unrepayed interest alone is in 19 figures.
    Johnson: (Leans in, elbows on table, confidentially): Well, we’ve thought up a wizard wheeze. What it is, in nuce, is: we get a lot of these foreigners across here, whizz them here across the old Channel, collect them at Dover, turn them into high-earning brain surgeons and politicians and, well, even bank managers! and then they will be only too pleased to pay back the start-up sums we gave them, and so the wheels of commerce turn, and all that.
    Manager: Mr Johnson, to be unable to do basic maths may be regarded as an inevitable misfortune resulting from the appalling educational system now in operation at (some of our schools ed). But to put someone in charge of a business who lacks all reasoning power whatsoever looks very much like carelessness. I shall be speaking to your Board. Good day, Mr Johnson.
    Johnson: Well, ‘bye bye then. Or is it, Au revoir?
    Manager: No, Mr Johnson, it is Goodbye.

    Reply
  39. kb
    June 7, 2021

    It’s very interesting that each migrant has an instant €250,000 investment when they arrive in the country. There have been several studies which insist that EU migrants are a net positive for the UK economy. Their calculations do not include this initial €250k investment; they add a per-capita share of the annual government expenditure instead. Obviously it is going to take many years before this initial investment is repaid, and if it were looked on as in this EU method, immigration would not be as economically favourable as these studies find. Not in the short term anyway, because each migrant has to contribute €250k before they become profitable.
    Does anyone have a reference for the EU report which states this €250,000 investment?

    Reply
  40. Peter2
    June 7, 2021

    Jerry 10 contrary (t)roll type posts.

    MiC/ andy 18 contrary (t)roll type posts

    Busy Monday guys?

    Reply
    1. MiC
      June 8, 2021

      Now do a word count instead, but for LL, Dom and the rest.

      Go on, you’ve clearly nothing better to do, have you?

      Reply
      1. Peter2
        June 8, 2021

        Very bored reading you lefty trolls droning on and on about your pet subjects 10 or 20 times a day.
        Maybe go for a walk or do a volunteer job?

        Reply
  41. XY
    June 7, 2021

    An excellent point. Perhaps you might suggest this to Mr Raab. if the new awkward squad, led by the sulking May, get their way tomorrow then it will be a hollow vioctory if accounting adds in the expenditure you suggest.

    Although… a law without sanction may as well not exist. What is the penalty for the government if they fail to spend 0.7% of GDP on foreign aid? They tell themselves off and go home suitably chastised?

    This is where the Labour Party could awaken from its slumbers and vote with the government, showing some patriotism and stealing the limelight. But that assumes more sense than the current crop of MPs actually possess.

    Reply
  42. Lindsay McDougall
    June 9, 2021

    As part of promoting world ZPG, we should reduce net immigration to zero. All illegal immigrants that we aren’t able immediately to send back home should be interred on a Hebridean island until they can be returned home; no exceptions. It would help immensely if the Caucasian population raised its birth rate to replacement level and stopped taking so many continental holidays.

    Reply
  43. Lindsay McDougall
    June 10, 2021

    We could save ourselves a lot of angst and trouble by retaining the 0.7% of GDP rule but including our financial help to vaccination programmes in other countries within the total.

    Reply

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